Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[Gomzy]

*By the way anybody can provide RDB BGM ?*  hehehee!!

On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 12:35 AM, light4_u <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   I totally agree with u Rawat and those people who r in favour of
> ripping BGM. Since I saw the movies of our boss's like Roja, Bombay,
> Dil Se etc. I wanted their BGM eagerly and now in 2007-2008 I m
> geting it, I thought its just amazing that now I m getting all the
> BGM after the film release. And now suddenly a shock!
>
> Anyone who can find out ARR's reaction on this then plz. If ARR is
> not happy with it I promise I wont ask for it again. By the way
> anybody can provide RDB BGM ?
>
> --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com , V S
> Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > When music companies or video companies are not selling the bgms,
> why
> > restrict sharing of bgms. It is not harming anybody's economic
> earnings.
> >
> > Thanks.
> > --
> > Rawat
> >
> > On 10/30/2008 6:32 PM India Time, _Farzad khaleel_ wrote:
> >
> > > Vithur, I have uploaded your BGM's in my website / blog.
> > >
> > > *http://rahmaniac.wordpress.com/downloads/bgm*
> > >
> > > Must I block the access to this page ? Please update me about
> this,
> > > Vithur
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance !
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Agreed with NIven...
> > >
> > > Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,,
> anywhere in
> > > any of the ARR Forums..
> > >
> > > If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can
> be
> > > discussed in individual basis.
> > >
> > > If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our
> BOSS's
> > > sentiments, I am extremely sorry. I dont have the least
> thought even
> > > to disturb ARR anytime...
> > >
> > > ARR is our motivation to even live in this world.
> > >
> > > God Bless ARR and everyone.
> > >
> > > Thanks.
> > >
>  > > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello Friends,
> > >
> > > I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing
> many BGM
> > > uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and
> listening to
> > > rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM
> are like
> > > hidden albums that we wished was available on the
> soundtrack
> > > audio cd.
> > >
> > > Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd
> for such
> > > gems
> > > are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but
> hearing
> > > it has
> > > been played on radio gives me goosebumps...
> > >
> > > OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear
> such thing
> > > about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think
> we need to
> > > wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.
> > >
> > > So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we
> should
> > > think of a
> > > way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.
> > >
> > > I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper
> and do our
> > > oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen
> whenever
> > > we want.
> > >
> > > Niven (Mauritius)
> > >
> > > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com 
> > > ,
> "kaissiom"
> > >  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Dear Aravind,
> > > >
> > > > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at
> least a
> > > year or
> > > > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have
> numerous
> > > BGMs and
> > > > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> > > >
> > > > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on
> this
> > > group here.
> > > > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and
> > > celebrate Rahman.
> > > > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare
> and generally
> > > > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share
> something in the
> > > > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes
> > > available to
> > > > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true,
> devoted,
> > > > dedicated Rahman fan.
> > > >
> > > > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my
> BGM on
> > > the Radio.
> > > > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had
> edited
> > > it. I
> > > > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard
> work.
> > > That's when
> > > > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs..
> it was right
> > > > after RDB bgms.
> > > >
> > > > Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one
> major thing...
> > > > namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from
> DVD
> > > >
> > > > I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the
> soundtrack on
> > > DVDs, but
> > > > it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could
> shed some
> > > light on
> > > > that. But please notice the difference between the
> above
> > > mentioned
> > > > musical bits from DVD:
> > > >
> > > > a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> > > > 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a
> > > soundtrack lik

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[|| V i s h w e s h ||]

In normal english it means "please don't stop, beg all of you... please... ;-)

" The search is more important than the destination "  - a r rahman -

--- On Fri, 31/10/08, Anil Nair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Anil Nair <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 31 October, 2008, 12:29 PM











What ?? That's one hell of a cryptic line .
-A

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 11:29 PM, K. Kumar  wrote:


















PLS DUN STOP BEG ALL OF YA PLS...
 

  
  
  
  




 




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Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[V S Rawat]

On 10/31/2008 12:29 PM India Time, _Anil Nair_ wrote:

> What ?? That's one hell of a cryptic line .
> 
> -A

He is saying "please don't stop sharing bgms. He is begging all of you 
not to stop..."

> 
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 11:29 PM, K. Kumar <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
> 
> PLS DUN STOP BEG ALL OF YA PLS...

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[Anil Nair]

What ?? That's one hell of a cryptic line .
-A

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 11:29 PM, K. Kumar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   PLS DUN STOP BEG ALL OF YA PLS...
>
> --- On *Thu, 30/10/08, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote:
>
> From: Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
> To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, 30 October, 2008, 11:26 PM
>
>
>  LOLZ LOLZ... Ban Kaissiom... he he.. No way..
>
> Okay bros...dont worry. I have an alternative way , and Kaissiom Bhai
> himself had suggested me to apply a disclaimer , whenever I share BGMs...
>
> I will do it...
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 8:33 PM, lalisingh20  PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
>
>>   Vithur bhai, pls don't stop sharing the BGM.
>>
>> If you read kaissiom email carefully, I think he's saying it's ok
>> toshare BGMs but not vocals.
>>
>> hey kaissiom, thanks for giving us the BGMs and taking it away from
>> us. I was thinking do you mind if I ask you wat u do for a living...
>> because ur emails are always long and serious.
>>
>> I have a solution to this dilemma: BAN kaissiom from posting anything
>> on this group... and everything will return to normal.
>>
>>
>> --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com ,
>> "kaissiom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear Aravind,
>> >
>> > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
>> > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and
>> > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
>> >
>> > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here.
>> > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
>> > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
>> > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
>> > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
>> > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
>> > dedicated Rahman fan.
>> >
>> > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
>> > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I
>> > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when
>> > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
>> > after RDB bgms.
>> >
>> > Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
>> > namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
>> >
>> > I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
>> > it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
>> > that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned
>> > musical bits from DVD:
>> >
>> > a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
>> > 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
>> > some of the tracks in BOSE.
>> > 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?
>> > 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
>> >
>> > b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
>> > 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are
>> > extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is
>> > available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
>> > implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't
>> > matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the
>> > same song and the same vocals. Therefore, you are tampering with a
>> > commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
>> > copyright laws.
>> > 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD
>> > 3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.
>> >
>> > Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between
>> > just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially
>> > available in form of CD).
>> >
>> > The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be
>> > very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like...
>> > "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still
>> > argue that BGMs are by themselves not available to the public in
>> > commercial form. If there is demand for it then maybe these
>> > producers/composers should start making BGMs com

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[V S Rawat]

On 10/31/2008 11:11 AM India Time, _Anil Nair_ wrote:

> On a lighter note (rather a side-note), is it true that Copyright laws 
> are restricted to 100 years only? I read (or did I hear) that somewhere 
> ..maybe I am wrong
> 
> If not...In which case, 100 years from now probably we can post BGM's here.
> 
> -A

I think it is 70 years.

A rightholder's right on audio/ video lasts for 70 years. After that, 
the right disappears and the contents become free.

ARR's Bombay, Dil Se, Taal, etc. sound as fresh and soothing today as 
they were on the first day of release 10-12-15 years ago. I hope that 60 
years later, our grandchildren would still love to hear them.

-- 
Rawat

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[K. Kumar]

PLS DUN STOP BEG ALL OF YA PLS...

--- On Thu, 30/10/08, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 30 October, 2008, 11:26 PM











LOLZ LOLZ... Ban Kaissiom... he he.. No way..
 
Okay bros...dont worry. I have an alternative way , and Kaissiom Bhai himself 
had suggested me to apply a disclaimer , whenever I share BGMs...
 
I will do it... 


On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 8:33 PM, lalisingh20  wrote:






Vithur bhai, pls don't stop sharing the BGM.

If you read kaissiom email carefully, I think he's saying it's ok
toshare BGMs but not vocals.

hey kaissiom, thanks for giving us the BGMs and taking it away from

us. I was thinking do you mind if I ask you wat u do for a living...
because ur emails are always long and serious.

I have a solution to this dilemma: BAN kaissiom from posting anything
on this group... and everything will return to normal. 




--- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, "kaissiom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dear Aravind, 
> 

> Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
> two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and
> other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> 

> The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here. 
> We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
> And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally

> unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
> public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
> the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,

> dedicated Rahman fan.
> 
> You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
> And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I
> felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when

> I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> after RDB bgms. 
> 
> Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD

> 
> I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
> it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
> that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned

> musical bits from DVD:
> 
> a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
> some of the tracks in BOSE.
> 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know? 

> 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
> 
> b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are
> extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is

> available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
> implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't
> matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the

> same song and the same vocals. Therefore, you are tampering with a
> commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
> copyright laws.
> 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD

> 3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.
> 
> Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between
> just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially
> available in form of CD). 

> 
> The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be
> very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like...
> "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still

> argue that BGMs are by themselves not available to the public in
> commercial form. If there is demand for it then maybe these
> producers/composers should start making BGMs commercially available...
> that way we don't have to go through the process of ripping and

> sharing these BGMS. It could be a market they are overlooking and
> while they do something about it, we are filling up the void for the
> die-hard fans and that too for "free". The "free" part is a big deal

> because nobody is making money from these BGMs and that is what it
> boils down to.. how much money did the copyright holders lose? 
> 
> On the other hand, copyright laws of Audio CD are very well defined. 

> Either the Record Company owns it(most of the times) or the producer
> owns it or the composer owns it or they own it partially( Rahman is
> working on it). 
> I believe full length vocals of any song should not be shared..for the

> very same reason we

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[K. Kumar]

WE WAIT FOR AGES AND YUGAS FOR HIS BEAUTIFUL MUSIC... I DUN SEE ANYTHING WRONG 
IF WE CAN FIND A LEAGAL WAY IF DOIN THIS... IS POSSIBLE FOR ARR TO RELEASE THE 
BGMS AS AN OST UNDER THE KM MUSIC LABEL? OR CAN SOME1 HERE START A COMPANY WHO 
CAN RELEASE OST PLS...!

--- On Fri, 31/10/08, light4_u <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: light4_u <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 31 October, 2008, 8:35 AM











I totally agree with u Rawat and those people who r in favour of 

ripping BGM. Since I saw the movies of our boss's like Roja, Bombay, 

Dil Se etc. I wanted their BGM eagerly and now in 2007-2008 I m 

geting it, I thought its just amazing that now I m getting all the 

BGM after the film release. And now suddenly a shock!



Anyone who can find out ARR's reaction on this then plz. If ARR is 

not happy with it I promise I wont ask for it again. By the way 

anybody can provide RDB BGM ?



--- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, V S Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:

>

> When music companies or video companies are not selling the bgms, 

why 

> restrict sharing of bgms. It is not harming anybody's economic 

earnings.

> 

> Thanks.

> --

> Rawat

> 

> On 10/30/2008 6:32 PM India Time, _Farzad khaleel_ wrote:

> 

> > Vithur, I have uploaded your BGM's in my website / blog.

> > 

> > *http://rahmaniac. wordpress. com/downloads/ bgm*

> > 

> > Must I block the access to this page ? Please update me about 

this, 

> > Vithur

> > 

> > Thanks in advance !

> > 

> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 

> > <mailto:vithurm@ ...>> wrote:

> > 

> > Agreed with NIven...

> >  

> > Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,, 

anywhere in

> > any of the ARR Forums..

> >  

> > If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can 

be

> > discussed in individual basis.

> >  

> > If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our 

BOSS's

> > sentiments, I am extremely sorry. I dont have the least 

thought even

> > to disturb ARR anytime...

> >  

> > ARR is our motivation to even live in this world.

> >  

> > God Bless ARR and everyone.

> >  

> > Thanks.

> > 

> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED] .

> > <mailto:nivensrn@ ...>> wrote:

> > 

> > 

> > Hello Friends,

> > 

> > I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing 

many BGM

> > uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and 

listening to

> > rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM 

are like

> > hidden albums that we wished was available on the 

soundtrack

> > audio cd.

> > 

> > Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd 

for such

> > gems

> > are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but 

hearing

> > it has

> > been played on radio gives me goosebumps.. .

> > 

> > OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear 

such thing

> > about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think 

we need to

> > wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.

> > 

> > So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we 

should

> > think of a

> > way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.

> > 

> > I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper 

and do our

> > oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen 

whenever

> > we want.

> > 

> > Niven (Mauritius)

> > 

> > --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com

> > <mailto:arrahmanfan s%40yahoogroups. com>, "kaissiom"

> >  wrote:

> >  >

> >  > Dear Aravind,

> >  >

> >  > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at 

least a

> > year or

> >  > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have 

numerous

> > BGMs and

> >  > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(

> >  >

> >  > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on 

this

> > group here.

> >  > We are all here for the same

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[K. Kumar]

orite there goes anther contributor companies are not goin to release bgms cant 
can have them ripped what now..? COME ON WATS DA SOLID AND FAST SOLUTION TO 
THIS?

--- On Fri, 31/10/08, Aravind AM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Aravind AM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 31 October, 2008, 10:33 AM











Thanks a lot for that amith..
That's bang on... 

As for as I'm concerned, I dont need any more clarifications, I think!!
I'm not uploading any more BGMs or voice alone tracks!!!


Aravind


http://arrahmaniac. blogspot. com

 Download Rahmania show interviews at http://rahmania. 4shared.com

--- On Fri, 31/10/08, Amith Chandhran  wrote:
From: Amith Chandhran 
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
To:
 arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Friday, 31 October, 2008, 7:24 AM








In my humble opinion, the copyright laws about the recorded work on 
any recordable media are very well defined in the legal system.

Copyright recognizes the exclusive
right of a creator to gain the commercial advantage out of his own creation.. 
It is essential to encourage the artists and composers to invest their
creative inputs in the original works.


Copyright is a bundle of rights which deals with works like: Literary, 
Dramatic, Musical, Artistic, Cinematographic films, and Sound recordings. A 
musical work means any combination of (instrumental or vocal) melody, harmony, 
singing, or either of them,
printed, reduced to writing or otherwise graphically produced or reproduced..

Where the musical work is comprising a part of the cinematographic film, the 
assignees of the copyrights for the cinematographic film will by default own 
copyrights in the musical work. Please refer to my earlier email on the 
copyright issues here: http://groups. . yahoo.com/ group/arrahmanfa ns/message/ 
88353


The BGMs with which we are concerned as of now, are the part of a movie, and 
are intended to be heard/seen/enjoyed as a part of movie, and not otherwise. 
Even if we extract them for our own pleasure, in any form (voiceless, with 
voice / with or without musical instruments) the copyrights will still remain 
with the original assignee. Since copyright is a bundle of rights, the assignee 
who has the copyrights for the movie, will essentially own the copyrights in 
the BGMs as well. (Remember: "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer") 
And extracting BGMs will violate the copyright laws.



Where both a CD and a DVD are copyrighted, the copyright laws will be 
applicable to all the work that they contain.

And unfortunately, the contention 'we-are-innocent- because-we- are-die-hard- 
fans-of-Mr. Rahman' is not going to sustain in any courts in this world. And I 
am not being sarcastic here, its the fact.


Thanks,

-




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:42 AM, kaissiom <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com> wrote:


















Dear Aravind, 



Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or

two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio.  I have numerous BGMs and

other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(



The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here. 

We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.

 And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally

unavailable bits and pieces.  But once we share something in the

public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to

the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,

dedicated Rahman fan.



You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.

 And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it.  I

felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work.  That's when

I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right

after RDB bgms.  



Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...

namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD



I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but

it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on

that.  But please notice the difference between the above mentioned

musical bits from DVD:



a)BGM (Background Music) bits:

1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like

some of the tracks in BOSE.

2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?  

3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?



b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):

1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD.  We are

extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is

available in the commercial form in original CD.  Commercial here

implies money can be made from it.  And technically it shouldn't

matter if you extract vocal

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[Anil Nair]

On a lighter note (rather a side-note), is it true that Copyright laws are
restricted to 100 years only? I read (or did I hear) that somewhere ..maybe
I am wrong
If not...In which case, 100 years from now probably we can post BGM's here.

-A

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:30 PM, V S Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   Thanks, Amith. Hearing from horse's mouth is indeed enlightening and
> leaves no sphere for doubt or confusion.
>
> So, that clarifies that sharing of ripped BGMs is illegal.
>
> But is it so unethical?
>
> You wrote:
> > The BGMs are the part of a movie, and are intended to be
>
> > heard/seen/enjoyed as a part of movie, and not otherwise.
>
> That is too stringent and unethical. Why do we have to see a 2:30 hours
> movie to enjoy a total of 5-10 minute BGMs? Can anyone afford to spend
> time seeing the entire movie to enjoy BGMs? And even DVDs don't have any
> menu for BGMs and we would have to locate them ourselves put our own
> bookmarks to reach them, so on. Hardly anyone has the skill and
> inclination to do that.
>
> That brings us to a concept:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire
>
> > laissez-faire can refer to "hands off, let alone, or let pass or let it
> be " attitude for matters outside of economics.
> >
> > Laissez-faire (pronunciation: French, [lɛsefɛʁ] (help·info); English,
> ˌleɪseɪˈfɛər (help·info)) is a French phrase literally meaning Let do
> ("allow to do"
>
> Laissez-faire is loosely translated as "Let individual be left alone".
> Government agencies are not supposed to interfere whatever an individual
> is doing in the privacy of home.
>
> That concept is well prevalent and I have come across police, lawyers
> and other person, who have conceded that that concept is what all
> agencies seem to follow nowadays, though the motivation for them is not
> any philosophical belief but just the plain, vanilla "shortage of
> manpower and time" to follow up everything.
>
> So, even working police guys have told me that if an individual is
> ripping cds/ dvds/ videos/ music/ whatever, even copying them in full
> and keeping for himself to view, NO CASE IS PUT AGAINST HIM, as long as
> he is not selling them, as long as he is not telling that it is his own
> creation.
>
> So, though it is illegal, by the words of law, to rip and share these
> things, when we are not charging money and when we are not claiming them
> to be our own creation, no police or no court in India is going to put
> behind bars, of course, unless they are hellbent on trapping us on any
> excuse.
>
> For that matter, did you ever got a novel to read for hire? Did you ever
> buy a novel and sold it after reading? Well, I think that is all
> illegal. (Hope someone clarifies). But that happens because that is
> surely unethical and impractical as everyone can't buy novels at huge
> prices and there is no point in keeping a novel for life after reading.
> Of course, if the copy you got is pirated itself (somebody else typing/
> scanning it and reprinting it), that is rightly offense.
>
> The same line of thought can be followed about music also.
>
> One thing is sure.
>
> PUBLIC SHARING OF SUCH THINGS WOULD STILL BE CONSIDERED A GRAVE LEGAL
> OFFENSE.
>
> So, having thought about it, I now concede that this list should not
> share such things so openly and so publicly.
>
> The solution: Share them in private.
>
> Members can request for bgms, cds, dvds, videos, mp3s here in list.
> There is no offense in asking.
>
> And then, the learned members having skills to extract bgms can send
> those bgms and whatever to them by direct post, bypassing this list.
>
> The first and foremost things is "buy at least one copy of audio cd"
>
> Once you have that, even right holder companies would be obliged to you
> and they know that they can't make you buy 100 versions of the same thing.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Rawat
>
>
> On 10/31/2008 7:24 AM India Time, _Amith Chandhran_ wrote:
>
> > In my humble opinion, the copyright laws about the recorded work on any
> > recordable media are very well defined in the legal system.
> >
> > Copyright recognizes the exclusive right of a creator to gain the
> > commercial advantage out of his own creation. It is essential to
> > encourage the artists and composers to invest their creative inputs in
> > the original works.*
> >
> > *Copyright is a bundle of rights which deals with works like: Literary,
> > Dramatic, Musical, Artistic, Cinematographic films, and Sound
> > recordings. A musical work means any combination of (instrumental or
> > vocal) melody, harmony, singing, or either of them, printed, reduced to
> > writing or otherwise graphically produced or reproduced.
> >
> > Where the musical work is comprising a part of the cinematographic film,
> > the assignees of the copyrights for the cinematographic film will by
> > default own copyrights in the musical work. Please refer to my earlier
> > email on the copyright issues here:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arrahmanfans/message

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[V S Rawat]

Thanks, Amith. Hearing from horse's mouth is indeed enlightening and 
leaves no sphere for doubt or confusion.

So, that clarifies that sharing of ripped BGMs is illegal.

But is it so unethical?

You wrote:
 > The BGMs are the part of a movie, and are intended to be
 > heard/seen/enjoyed as a part of movie, and not otherwise.

That is too stringent and unethical. Why do we have to see a 2:30 hours 
movie to enjoy a total of 5-10 minute BGMs? Can anyone afford to spend 
time seeing the entire movie to enjoy BGMs? And even DVDs don't have any 
menu for BGMs and we would have to locate them ourselves put our own 
bookmarks to reach them, so on. Hardly anyone has the skill and 
inclination to do that.

That brings us to a concept:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire

> laissez-faire can refer to "hands off, let alone, or let pass or let it be " 
> attitude for matters outside of economics.
> 
> Laissez-faire (pronunciation: French, [lɛsefɛʁ] (help·info); English, 
> ˌleɪseɪˈfɛər (help·info)) is a French phrase literally meaning Let do (“allow 
> to do”

Laissez-faire is loosely translated as "Let individual be left alone". 
Government agencies are not supposed to interfere whatever an individual 
is doing in the privacy of home.

That concept is well prevalent and I have come across police, lawyers 
and other person, who have conceded that that concept is what all 
agencies seem to follow nowadays, though the motivation for them is not 
any philosophical belief but just the plain, vanilla "shortage of 
manpower and time" to follow up everything.

So, even working police guys have told me that if an individual is 
ripping cds/ dvds/ videos/ music/ whatever, even copying them in full 
and keeping for himself to view, NO CASE IS PUT AGAINST HIM, as long as 
he is not selling them, as long as he is not telling that it is his own 
creation.

So, though it is illegal, by the words of law, to rip and share these 
things, when we are not charging money and when we are not claiming them 
to be our own creation, no police or no court in India is going to put 
behind bars, of course, unless they are hellbent on trapping us on any 
excuse.

For that matter, did you ever got a novel to read for hire? Did you ever 
buy a novel and sold it after reading? Well, I think that is all 
illegal. (Hope someone clarifies). But that happens because that is 
surely unethical and impractical as everyone can't buy novels at huge 
prices and there is no point in keeping a novel for life after reading. 
Of course, if the copy you got is pirated itself (somebody else typing/ 
scanning it and reprinting it), that is rightly offense.

The same line of thought can be followed about music also.

One thing is sure.

PUBLIC SHARING OF SUCH THINGS WOULD STILL BE CONSIDERED A GRAVE LEGAL 
OFFENSE.

So, having thought about it, I now concede that this list should not 
share such things so openly and so publicly.

The solution: Share them in private.

Members can request for bgms, cds, dvds, videos, mp3s here in list. 
There is no offense in asking.

And then, the learned members having skills to extract bgms can send 
those bgms and whatever to them by direct post, bypassing this list.

The first and foremost things is "buy at least one copy of audio cd"

Once you have that, even right holder companies would be obliged to you 
and they know that they can't make you buy 100 versions of the same thing.

Thanks.
--
Rawat

On 10/31/2008 7:24 AM India Time, _Amith Chandhran_ wrote:

> In my humble opinion, the copyright laws about the recorded work on any 
> recordable media are very well defined in the legal system.
> 
> Copyright recognizes the exclusive right of a creator to gain the 
> commercial advantage out of his own creation. It is essential to 
> encourage the artists and composers to invest their creative inputs in 
> the original works.*
> 
> *Copyright is a bundle of rights which deals with works like: Literary, 
> Dramatic, Musical, Artistic, Cinematographic films, and Sound 
> recordings. A musical work means any combination of (instrumental or 
> vocal) melody, harmony, singing, or either of them, printed, reduced to 
> writing or otherwise graphically produced or reproduced.
> 
> Where the musical work is comprising a part of the cinematographic film, 
> the assignees of the copyrights for the cinematographic film will by 
> default own copyrights in the musical work. Please refer to my earlier 
> email on the copyright issues here: 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arrahmanfans/message/88353
> 
> The BGMs with which we are concerned as of now, are the part of a movie, 
> and are intended to be heard/seen/enjoyed as a part of movie, and not 
> otherwise. Even if we extract them for our own pleasure, in any form 
> (voiceless, with voice / with or without musical instruments) the 
> copyrights will still remain with the original assignee. Since copyright 
> is a bundle of rights, the assignee who has the copyrights for the 
> movi

[arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[kaissiom]

Thank You Amith!


--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "Amith Chandhran"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> In my humble opinion, the copyright laws about the recorded work on any
> recordable media are very well defined in the legal system.
> 
> Copyright recognizes the exclusive right of a creator to gain the
commercial
> advantage out of his own creation. It is essential to encourage the
artists
> and composers to invest their creative inputs in the original works.*
> 
> *Copyright is a bundle of rights which deals with works like: Literary,
> Dramatic, Musical, Artistic, Cinematographic films, and Sound
recordings. A
> musical work means any combination of (instrumental or vocal) melody,
> harmony, singing, or either of them, printed, reduced to writing or
> otherwise graphically produced or reproduced.
> 
> Where the musical work is comprising a part of the cinematographic
film, the
> assignees of the copyrights for the cinematographic film will by
default own
> copyrights in the musical work. Please refer to my earlier email on the
> copyright issues here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arrahmanfans/message/88353
> 
> The BGMs with which we are concerned as of now, are the part of a
movie, and
> are intended to be heard/seen/enjoyed as a part of movie, and not
otherwise.
> Even if we extract them for our own pleasure, in any form
(voiceless, with
> voice / with or without musical instruments) the copyrights will still
> remain with the original assignee. Since copyright is a bundle of
rights,
> the assignee who has the copyrights for the movie, will essentially
own the
> copyrights in the BGMs as well. (*Remember: "All rights of the DVD
are owned
> by the producer"*) And extracting BGMs will violate the copyright laws.
> 
> * *
> Where both a CD and a DVD are copyrighted, the copyright laws will be
> applicable to all the work that they contain.
> 
> And unfortunately, the contention
> 'we-are-innocent-because-we-are-die-hard-fans-of-Mr.Rahman' is not
going to
> sustain in any courts in this world. And I am not being sarcastic
here, its
> the fact.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:42 AM, kaissiom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >   Dear Aravind,
> >
> > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
> > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and
> > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> >
> > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here.
> > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
> > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
> > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
> > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
> > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
> > dedicated Rahman fan.
> >
> > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
> > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I
> > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when
> > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> > after RDB bgms.
> >
> > Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> > namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
> >
> > I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
> > it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
> > that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned
> > musical bits from DVD:
> >
> > a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> > 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
> > some of the tracks in BOSE.
> > 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?
> > 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
> >
> > b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> > 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are
> > extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is
> > available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
> > implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't
> > matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the
> > same song and the same vocals. Therefore, you are tampering with a
> > commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
> > copyright laws.
> > 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD
> > 3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.
> >
> > Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between
> > just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially
> > available in form of CD).
> >
> > The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be
> > very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like...
> > "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still
> > argue that BGMs are by themselves not available to the public in
> > commercial form. If there is d

[arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[nivensamy]

Guys,

I have an idea about the BGM. Asking Gopal/Vijay to check with Rahman
is quite embarassing, and the disclaimer is a legal aspect. Im
thinking more about access to the BGM. I read that someone mentionned
using password in RAR files. I move it further that these passwords
should not be in messages of the group but are communicated by the
ripper to the user via a messenger type of chat on a one to one basis.
The ripper knows whoever is genuine and really responsible member of
the group and no way that evil minds get access to them.

Secondly, can we have copyrighted audio files which need a license key
to be played? Anyone can think of that please...

Niven (Mauritius)



--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "Amith Chandhran"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> In my humble opinion, the copyright laws about the recorded work on any
> recordable media are very well defined in the legal system.
> 
> Copyright recognizes the exclusive right of a creator to gain the
commercial
> advantage out of his own creation. It is essential to encourage the
artists
> and composers to invest their creative inputs in the original works.*
> 
> *Copyright is a bundle of rights which deals with works like: Literary,
> Dramatic, Musical, Artistic, Cinematographic films, and Sound
recordings. A
> musical work means any combination of (instrumental or vocal) melody,
> harmony, singing, or either of them, printed, reduced to writing or
> otherwise graphically produced or reproduced.
> 
> Where the musical work is comprising a part of the cinematographic
film, the
> assignees of the copyrights for the cinematographic film will by
default own
> copyrights in the musical work. Please refer to my earlier email on the
> copyright issues here:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arrahmanfans/message/88353
> 
> The BGMs with which we are concerned as of now, are the part of a
movie, and
> are intended to be heard/seen/enjoyed as a part of movie, and not
otherwise.
> Even if we extract them for our own pleasure, in any form
(voiceless, with
> voice / with or without musical instruments) the copyrights will still
> remain with the original assignee. Since copyright is a bundle of
rights,
> the assignee who has the copyrights for the movie, will essentially
own the
> copyrights in the BGMs as well. (*Remember: "All rights of the DVD
are owned
> by the producer"*) And extracting BGMs will violate the copyright laws.
> 
> * *
> Where both a CD and a DVD are copyrighted, the copyright laws will be
> applicable to all the work that they contain.
> 
> And unfortunately, the contention
> 'we-are-innocent-because-we-are-die-hard-fans-of-Mr.Rahman' is not
going to
> sustain in any courts in this world. And I am not being sarcastic
here, its
> the fact.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:42 AM, kaissiom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >   Dear Aravind,
> >
> > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
> > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and
> > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> >
> > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here.
> > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
> > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
> > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
> > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
> > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
> > dedicated Rahman fan.
> >
> > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
> > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I
> > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when
> > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> > after RDB bgms.
> >
> > Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> > namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
> >
> > I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
> > it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
> > that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned
> > musical bits from DVD:
> >
> > a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> > 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
> > some of the tracks in BOSE.
> > 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?
> > 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
> >
> > b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> > 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are
> > extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is
> > available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
> > implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't
> > matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the
> > same song and the same vocals. Therefore, you are tampering with a
> > commercially available produ

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[Aravind AM]

Thanks a lot for that amith..
That's bang on... 

As for as I'm concerned, I dont need any more clarifications, I think!!
I'm not uploading any more BGMs or voice alone tracks!!!


Aravind


http://arrahmaniac.blogspot.com

 Download Rahmania show interviews at http://rahmania.4shared.com

--- On Fri, 31/10/08, Amith Chandhran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Amith Chandhran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, 31 October, 2008, 7:24 AM











In my humble opinion, the copyright laws about the recorded work on 
any recordable media are very well defined in the legal system.

Copyright recognizes the exclusive
right of a creator to gain the commercial advantage out of his own creation.. 
It is essential to encourage the artists and composers to invest their
creative inputs in the original works.


Copyright is a bundle of rights which deals with works like: Literary, 
Dramatic, Musical, Artistic, Cinematographic films, and Sound recordings. A 
musical work means any combination of (instrumental or vocal) melody, harmony, 
singing, or either of them,
printed, reduced to writing or otherwise graphically produced or reproduced..

Where the musical work is comprising a part of the cinematographic film, the 
assignees of the copyrights for the cinematographic film will by default own 
copyrights in the musical work. Please refer to my earlier email on the 
copyright issues here: http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/arrahmanfa ns/message/ 
88353


The BGMs with which we are concerned as of now, are the part of a movie, and 
are intended to be heard/seen/enjoyed as a part of movie, and not otherwise. 
Even if we extract them for our own pleasure, in any form (voiceless, with 
voice / with or without musical instruments) the copyrights will still remain 
with the original assignee. Since copyright is a bundle of rights, the assignee 
who has the copyrights for the movie, will essentially own the copyrights in 
the BGMs as well. (Remember: "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer") 
And extracting BGMs will violate the copyright laws.



Where both a CD and a DVD are copyrighted, the copyright laws will be 
applicable to all the work that they contain.

And unfortunately, the contention 'we-are-innocent- because-we- are-die-hard- 
fans-of-Mr. Rahman' is not going to sustain in any courts in this world. And I 
am not being sarcastic here, its the fact.


Thanks,

-




On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:42 AM, kaissiom <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com> wrote:


















Dear Aravind, 



Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or

two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio.  I have numerous BGMs and

other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(



The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here. 

We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.

 And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally

unavailable bits and pieces.  But once we share something in the

public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to

the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,

dedicated Rahman fan.



You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.

 And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it.  I

felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work.  That's when

I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right

after RDB bgms.  



Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...

namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD



I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but

it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on

that.  But please notice the difference between the above mentioned

musical bits from DVD:



a)BGM (Background Music) bits:

1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like

some of the tracks in BOSE.

2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?  

3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?



b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):

1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD.  We are

extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is

available in the commercial form in original CD.  Commercial here

implies money can be made from it.  And technically it shouldn't

matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the

same song and the same vocals.  Therefore, you are tampering with a

commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of

copyright laws.

2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD

3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.



Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between

just a BGM(not 

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[Amith Chandhran]

In my humble opinion, the copyright laws about the recorded work on any
recordable media are very well defined in the legal system.

Copyright recognizes the exclusive right of a creator to gain the commercial
advantage out of his own creation. It is essential to encourage the artists
and composers to invest their creative inputs in the original works.*

*Copyright is a bundle of rights which deals with works like: Literary,
Dramatic, Musical, Artistic, Cinematographic films, and Sound recordings. A
musical work means any combination of (instrumental or vocal) melody,
harmony, singing, or either of them, printed, reduced to writing or
otherwise graphically produced or reproduced.

Where the musical work is comprising a part of the cinematographic film, the
assignees of the copyrights for the cinematographic film will by default own
copyrights in the musical work. Please refer to my earlier email on the
copyright issues here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arrahmanfans/message/88353

The BGMs with which we are concerned as of now, are the part of a movie, and
are intended to be heard/seen/enjoyed as a part of movie, and not otherwise.
Even if we extract them for our own pleasure, in any form (voiceless, with
voice / with or without musical instruments) the copyrights will still
remain with the original assignee. Since copyright is a bundle of rights,
the assignee who has the copyrights for the movie, will essentially own the
copyrights in the BGMs as well. (*Remember: "All rights of the DVD are owned
by the producer"*) And extracting BGMs will violate the copyright laws.

* *
Where both a CD and a DVD are copyrighted, the copyright laws will be
applicable to all the work that they contain.

And unfortunately, the contention
'we-are-innocent-because-we-are-die-hard-fans-of-Mr.Rahman' is not going to
sustain in any courts in this world. And I am not being sarcastic here, its
the fact.

Thanks,

-



On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:42 AM, kaissiom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   Dear Aravind,
>
> Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
> two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and
> other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
>
> The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here.
> We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
> And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
> unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
> public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
> the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
> dedicated Rahman fan.
>
> You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
> And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I
> felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when
> I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> after RDB bgms.
>
> Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
>
> I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
> it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
> that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned
> musical bits from DVD:
>
> a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
> some of the tracks in BOSE.
> 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?
> 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
>
> b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are
> extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is
> available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
> implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't
> matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the
> same song and the same vocals. Therefore, you are tampering with a
> commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
> copyright laws.
> 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD
> 3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.
>
> Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between
> just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially
> available in form of CD).
>
> The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be
> very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like...
> "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still
> argue that BGMs are by themselves not available to the public in
> commercial form. If there is demand for it then maybe these
> producers/composers should start making BGMs commercially available...
> that way we don't have to go through the process of ripping and
> sharing these BGMS. It could be a market they are overlooking and
> while they do something about it, we are filling up the void for

[arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[kaissiom]

I don't think ARR can be approached regarding this matter, that would be
very irresponsible of us.  Gops/Vijay will be  in the same boat as us in
this matter... confused.  We really need some expert assistance here.

Regarding the disclaimer... I had started posting the disclaimer for
only one reason:
1. Primarily to cover my own behind
And that was when I was actually sharing full BGMs, I have stopped doing
so for a while now.

When I buy a DVD or a CD, I'm paying for it, I have the right to watch
it or listen to it where-ever I like, when ever I like as long as I'm
not violating any copyright laws.  I'm not an expert on copyright
laws... but I have studied business law to a certain extent.
Copyright/patent laws are there to protect the intellectual/artistic
property of the right holder.  It actually is all about money, and if
not money then some other kind of compensation.  These laws are there to
make sure that "someone" other than the "rightholder" is not taking
advantage or benefiting in anyway from the property of the rightholder
whithout the rightholder's consent or permission.  Backup of something
you have purchases is allowed.

BGMs are nothing but backups of music in the DVD.  As long as I own the
DVD, I can create backups of it.  As long as I'm not making any money
from the backups or broadcasting it in anyway or claiming it as my
"creation", I'm not violating any rules.

Let me try to explain my disclaimer here:
By clicking on the following link you are certifying that you
currently own the original copy of . The content provided to you
for downloading is
strictly for backup purposes. I, Kaissiom, certify that I own the
original content and make duplicates for backup purposes only. By
downloading the content, you certify that you currently own the
original content and want to protect it from possible damage.
-Here I'm requiring the downloader to certify that he/she owns the
original DVD/CD.  If you own it and I own it, then there's no problem in
us sharing a backup.

This is a free service, I'm not selling you music or distributing music,
I'm
only providing backups of the music you already own.
-Here I'm explicitly indicating that nobody is benefiting from this
exhange or in other words... it's not causing any "loss" to the
rightholder.

  I, Kaissiom, will not be held accountable for the downloader's use of
my backups.
-Here I'm explicitly indicating that I'm responsible for my actions, but
what the downloader does with it after he/she downloads it is not my
responsibility.  They are liable for their actions... legal or illegal.

  If you sell, trade, or forfeit your ownership of your original
software, you
agree to destroy the CDR or any digital backups of that title.
-If you sell or trade or forfeit your ownership of original work, you
automatically lose ownership of your backups... that is what these lines
are explaining.

You take full responsibility for your own actions when using these
back-ups and release Kaissiom from all liabilities, which may arise -
expressed, written, or implied.
-Here I'm releasing myself of any liability and again enforcing the
burdern of responsibilty with the downloader after he/she downloads.

By downloading the content, you are
complying with these regulations.
-Basically... If you do not like my conditions above... DO NOT download.

This allows me (Kaissiom) to
duplicate, and you (a consumer) to receive the right to use my
backups. All trademarks and copyrights are owned by the respective
third parties."
-Again... I can only share these items with you as backups given we both
own the originals, we won't profit from it and or broadcast it, you will
destroy the backups if you lose ownership of the orignal, you are
responsible for what you do with it after you download it, and last but
not the least, I'm not claiming these to be my creations... all rights
are owned by the respective third parties.

Therefore, once someone downloads it, they can not further share it with
someone or host it somewhere or do anything illegal with it.  But if
they do, they are responsible for all their actions and the consequences
thereof.

I don't know... I hope we all find some solution to this dilemma.

One thing is for certain... We CAN NOT share full length vocals
extracted from the DVDs - They are commercially avaialbe in form of
audio CD... as opposed to BGMs which are not commercially available.

Sigh!
Wasim

--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "Bharath Venkatesan"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> By his contracts with the producers and music/ video rights holder
> >> companies, ARR is BOUND not to allow it, not to let it be allowed,
not
> >> to say a word that might encourage sharing of bgm.
>
> That exactly is my understanding too. I once mentioned to somebody
that I am
> hosting a folder with all ripped background scores and I was cautioned
that
> it might tread into troublesome waters.
>
> As fate would have it, my web server went down soon after and I
haven't
> upload

[arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[light4_u]

I totally agree with u Rawat and those people who r in favour of 
ripping BGM. Since I saw the movies of our boss's like Roja, Bombay, 
Dil Se etc. I wanted their BGM eagerly and now in 2007-2008 I m 
geting it, I thought its just amazing that now I m getting all the 
BGM after the film release. And now suddenly a shock!

Anyone who can find out ARR's reaction on this then plz. If ARR is 
not happy with it I promise I wont ask for it again. By the way 
anybody can provide RDB BGM ?




--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, V S Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> When music companies or video companies are not selling the bgms, 
why 
> restrict sharing of bgms. It is not harming anybody's economic 
earnings.
> 
> Thanks.
> --
> Rawat
> 
> On 10/30/2008 6:32 PM India Time, _Farzad khaleel_ wrote:
> 
> > Vithur, I have uploaded your BGM's in my website / blog.
> > 
> > *http://rahmaniac.wordpress.com/downloads/bgm*
> > 
> > Must I block the access to this page ? Please update me about 
this, 
> > Vithur
> > 
> > Thanks in advance !
> > 
> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > wrote:
> > 
> > Agreed with NIven...
> >  
> > Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,, 
anywhere in
> > any of the ARR Forums..
> >  
> > If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can 
be
> > discussed in individual basis.
> >  
> > If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our 
BOSS's
> > sentiments, I am extremely sorry. I dont have the least 
thought even
> > to disturb ARR anytime...
> >  
> > ARR is our motivation to even live in this world.
> >  
> > God Bless ARR and everyone.
> >  
> > Thanks.
> > 
> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Hello Friends,
> > 
> > I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing 
many BGM
> > uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and 
listening to
> > rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM 
are like
> > hidden albums that we wished was available on the 
soundtrack
> > audio cd.
> > 
> > Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd 
for such
> > gems
> > are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but 
hearing
> > it has
> > been played on radio gives me goosebumps...
> > 
> > OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear 
such thing
> > about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think 
we need to
> > wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.
> > 
> > So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we 
should
> > think of a
> > way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.
> > 
> > I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper 
and do our
> > oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen 
whenever
> > we want.
> > 
> > Niven (Mauritius)
> > 
> > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> > , "kaissiom"
> >  wrote:
> >  >
> >  > Dear Aravind,
> >  >
> >  > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at 
least a
> > year or
> >  > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have 
numerous
> > BGMs and
> >  > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> >  >
> >  > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on 
this
> > group here.
> >  > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and
> > celebrate Rahman.
> >  > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare 
and generally
> >  > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share 
something in the
> >  > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes
> > available to
> >  > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, 
devoted,
> >  > dedicated Rahman fan.
> >  >
> >  > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my 
BGM on
> > the Radio.
> >  > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had 
edited
> > it. I
> >  > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard 
work.
> > That's when
> >  > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. 
it was right
> >  > after RDB bgms.
> >  >
> >  > Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one 
major thing...
> >  > namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from 
DVD
> >  >
> >  > I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the 
soundtrack on
> > DVDs, but
> >  > it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could 
shed some
> > light on
> >  > that. But pl

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[Bharath Venkatesan]

>> By his contracts with the producers and music/ video rights holder
>> companies, ARR is BOUND not to allow it, not to let it be allowed, not
>> to say a word that might encourage sharing of bgm.

That exactly is my understanding too. I once mentioned to somebody that I am
hosting a folder with all ripped background scores and I was cautioned that
it might tread into troublesome waters.

As fate would have it, my web server went down soon after and I haven't
uploaded any files back since then.

-- 
:: Bharath
http://singingphotons.net



On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 10:32 AM, V S Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On 10/30/2008 9:56 PM India Time, _Nagaraj_ wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am also torn between the two. Also on BGM extraction can Gopal/Vijay
> > check with ARR on what he feels about sharing BGMs on the net by fans.
> > I guess we should respect Boss's sentiments. After all, he has done
> > so much ..i mean so much for us.
>
> By his contracts with the producers and music/ video rights holder
> companies, ARR is BOUND not to allow it, not to let it be allowed, not
> to say a word that might encourage sharing of bgm.
>
> So, if you ask him, you know the answer.
>
> The way out: don't ask him. :-) :0) he he he.
>
> > We can do this small sacrifice for a
> > right cause by avoiding sharing BGMs if boss feels bad.
>
> There is no right or wrong cause in it. If music/ video company has not
> released the bgms commercially, nobody is loosing anything by sharing
> bgms. Companies keep thousands of rules or restrictions for all
> eventualities. Don't respect all those restrictions or you wouldn't be
> able to take a breath.
>
> > I am sure all
> > the fans out here will respect Boss's feelings. I request Gopal/Vijay
> > to check with boss on what he thinks on this.
> >
> > Regards,
> > S.V.Nagaraj
>
> --
> Rawat
>
> 
>
> Are you searching for a reason, to be kind?
> 
> Explore, Experience, Enjoy A.R.Rahman - The Man, The Music, The Magic.
> Only at arrahmanfans.com - The definitive A.R.Rahman e-community.
>
> Homepage: http://www.arrahmanfans.com
> Admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Groups
> Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[V S Rawat]

On 10/30/2008 9:56 PM India Time, _Nagaraj_ wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I am also torn between the two. Also on BGM extraction can Gopal/Vijay
> check with ARR on what he feels about sharing BGMs on the net by fans.
> I guess we should respect Boss's sentiments. After all, he has done 
> so much ..i mean so much for us. 

By his contracts with the producers and music/ video rights holder 
companies, ARR is BOUND not to allow it, not to let it be allowed, not 
to say a word that might encourage sharing of bgm.

So, if you ask him, you know the answer.

The way out: don't ask him. :-) :0) he he he.

> We can do this small sacrifice for a 
> right cause by avoiding sharing BGMs if boss feels bad. 

There is no right or wrong cause in it. If music/ video company has not 
released the bgms commercially, nobody is loosing anything by sharing 
bgms. Companies keep thousands of rules or restrictions for all 
eventualities. Don't respect all those restrictions or you wouldn't be 
able to take a breath.

> I am sure all 
> the fans out here will respect Boss's feelings. I request Gopal/Vijay
> to check with boss on what he thinks on this.
> 
> Regards,
> S.V.Nagaraj

-- 
Rawat

[arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[Nagaraj]

Hi all,

I am also torn between the two. Also on BGM extraction can Gopal/Vijay
check with ARR on what he feels about sharing BGMs on the net by fans.
I guess we should respect Boss's sentiments. After all, he has done 
so much ..i mean so much for us. We can do this small sacrifice for a 
right cause by avoiding sharing BGMs if boss feels bad. I am sure all 
the fans out here will respect Boss's feelings. I request Gopal/Vijay
to check with boss on what he thinks on this.

Regards,
S.V.Nagaraj



--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Aravind AM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> 
> I have extracted voice only tracks of songs in Taal and Dil-Se... 
But, now I'm having second thoughts on uploading it to the group.
> 
> After seeing this series of mails on whether or not sharing this 
mail, I'm now thoroughly confused.  On reading kaissiom's mail, I 
could truly empathise with his argument. Whatever he has mentioned in 
his mail makes a lot of sense, and he is totally justified! 
> 
> Now, I'm torn between the two  - joy of sharing and 
ethics/copyright issues. 
> 
> Gopal and Vijay, It would be great if you could give your views on 
the same!!
> 
> 
> Aravind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://arrahmaniac.blogspot.com
> 
>  Download Rahmania show interviews at http://rahmania.4shared.com
> 
> 
>   Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to 
http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/
>

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[V S Rawat]

On 10/30/2008 8:57 PM India Time, _$ Pavan Kumar $_ wrote:

> Its not harming anybody's economic earning...but..wat about the creative 
> aspect? Money isnt everything...

ARR's creations reach his fans, what could be better creative respect to 
ARR than that?

It is sinful of music companies not to release the bgms commercially so 
that fans can buy. the music companies are starving the fans only 
because there is not much market for bgms. hence, I feel it is perfectly 
ok and harmless to share bgms.

--
Rawat

> 
> --- On *Thu, 10/30/08, V S Rawat /<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>/* wrote:
> 
> From: V S Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>     Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
> To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:11 AM
> 
> When music companies or video companies are not selling the bgms, why
> restrict sharing of bgms. It is not harming anybody's economic earnings.
> 
> Thanks.
> --
> Rawat
> 
> On 10/30/2008 6:32 PM India Time, _Farzad khaleel_ wrote:
> 
>  > Vithur, I have uploaded your BGM's in my website / blog.
>  >
>  > *http://rahmaniac. wordpress. com/downloads/ bgm*
> <http://rahmaniac.wordpress.com/downloads/bgm*>
>  >
>  > Must I block the access to this page ? Please update me about this,
>  > Vithur
>  >
>  > Thanks in advance !
>  >
>  > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com
> <mailto:vithurm%40gmail.com>
>  > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] com <mailto:vithurm%40gmail.com>>> wrote:
>  >
>  > Agreed with NIven...
>  >
>  > Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,, anywhere in
>  > any of the ARR Forums..
>  >
>  > If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can be
>  > discussed in individual basis.
>  >
>  > If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our BOSS's
>  > sentiments, I am extremely sorry. I dont have the least thought even
>  > to disturb ARR anytime...
>  >
>  > ARR is our motivation to even live in this world.
>  >
>  > God Bless ARR and everyone.
>  >
>  > Thanks.
>  >
>  > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com
> <mailto:nivensrn%40gmail.com>
>  > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] com <mailto:nivensrn%40gmail.com>>> wrote:
>  >
>  >
>  > Hello Friends,
>  >
>  > I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing many BGM
>  > uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and listening to
>  > rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM are like
>  > hidden albums that we wished was available on the soundtrack
>  > audio cd.
>  >
>  > Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd for such
>  > gems
>  > are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but hearing
>  > it has
>  > been played on radio gives me goosebumps.. .
>  >
>  > OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear such thing
>  > about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think we need to
>  > wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.
>  >
>  > So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we should
>  > think of a
>  > way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.
>  >
>  > I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper and do our
>  > oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen whenever
>  > we want.
>  >
>  > Niven (Mauritius)
>  >
>  > --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com>
>  > <mailto:arrahmanfan s%40yahoogroups. com>, "kaissiom"
>  > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] .> wrote:
>  > >
>  > > Dear Aravind,
>  > >
>  > > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a
>  > year or
>  > > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous
>  > BGMs and
>  > > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
>  > >
>  > > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this
>  > group here.
>  > > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and
>  > celebrate Rahman.
>  > &g

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[Gomzy]

Well I will tell you what. Since Gops/Vijay are mum about the whole issue,
continue
sharing the BGMs. If there is anything wrong they will/would advise :P

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 3:27 PM, $ Pavan Kumar $ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

>  Its not harming anybody's economic earning...but..wat about the
> creative aspect? Money isnt everything...
>
> --- On *Thu, 10/30/08, V S Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>* wrote:
>
> From: V S Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
> To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:11 AM
>
>When music companies or video companies are not selling the bgms, why
> restrict sharing of bgms. It is not harming anybody's economic earnings.
>
> Thanks.
> --
> Rawat
>
> On 10/30/2008 6:32 PM India Time, _Farzad khaleel_ wrote:
>
> > Vithur, I have uploaded your BGM's in my website / blog.
> >
> > *http://rahmaniac. wordpress. com/downloads/ 
> > bgm*<http://rahmaniac.wordpress.com/downloads/bgm*>
> >
> > Must I block the access to this page ? Please update me about this,
> > Vithur
> >
> > Thanks in advance !
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > com
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] com >> wrote:
> >
> > Agreed with NIven...
> >
> > Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,, anywhere in
> > any of the ARR Forums..
> >
> > If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can be
> > discussed in individual basis.
> >
> > If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our BOSS's
> > sentiments, I am extremely sorry. I dont have the least thought even
> > to disturb ARR anytime...
> >
> > ARR is our motivation to even live in this world.
> >
> > God Bless ARR and everyone.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > com
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] com >> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello Friends,
> >
> > I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing many BGM
> > uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and listening to
> > rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM are like
> > hidden albums that we wished was available on the soundtrack
> > audio cd.
> >
> > Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd for such
> > gems
> > are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but hearing
> > it has
> > been played on radio gives me goosebumps.. .
> >
> > OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear such thing
> > about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think we need to
> > wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.
> >
> > So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we should
> > think of a
> > way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.
> >
> > I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper and do our
> > oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen whenever
> > we want.
> >
> > Niven (Mauritius)
> >
> > --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com 
> > <mailto:arrahmanfan s%40yahoogroups. com>, "kaissiom"
>
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] .> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Aravind,
> > >
> > > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a
> > year or
> > > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous
> > BGMs and
> > > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> > >
> > > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this
> > group here.
> > > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and
> > celebrate Rahman.
> > > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
> > > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
> > > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes
> > available to
> > > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
> > > dedicated Rahman fan.
> > >
> > > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on
> > the Radio.
> > > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited
> > it. I
> > > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work.
> > That's when
> > > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> > > after RDB bgms.
> > >

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[$ Pavan Kumar $]

Its not harming anybody's economic earning...but..wat about the creative 
aspect? Money isnt everything...

--- On Thu, 10/30/08, V S Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: V S Rawat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008, 7:11 AM






When music companies or video companies are not selling the bgms, why 
restrict sharing of bgms. It is not harming anybody's economic earnings.

Thanks.
--
Rawat

On 10/30/2008 6:32 PM India Time, _Farzad khaleel_ wrote:

> Vithur, I have uploaded your BGM's in my website / blog.
> 
> *http://rahmaniac. wordpress. com/downloads/ bgm*
> 
> Must I block the access to this page ? Please update me about this, 
> Vithur
> 
> Thanks in advance !
> 
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] com>> wrote:
> 
> Agreed with NIven...
> 
> Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,, anywhere in
> any of the ARR Forums..
> 
> If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can be
> discussed in individual basis.
> 
> If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our BOSS's
> sentiments, I am extremely sorry. I dont have the least thought even
> to disturb ARR anytime...
> 
> ARR is our motivation to even live in this world.
> 
> God Bless ARR and everyone.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] com>> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello Friends,
> 
> I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing many BGM
> uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and listening to
> rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM are like
> hidden albums that we wished was available on the soundtrack
> audio cd.
> 
> Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd for such
> gems
> are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but hearing
> it has
> been played on radio gives me goosebumps.. .
> 
> OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear such thing
> about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think we need to
> wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.
> 
> So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we should
> think of a
> way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.
> 
> I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper and do our
> oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen whenever
> we want.
> 
> Niven (Mauritius)
> 
> --- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
> <mailto:arrahmanfan s%40yahoogroups. com>, "kaissiom"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] .> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Aravind,
> >
> > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a
> year or
> > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous
> BGMs and
> > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> >
> > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this
> group here.
> > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and
> celebrate Rahman.
> > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
> > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
> > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes
> available to
> > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
> > dedicated Rahman fan.
> >
> > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on
> the Radio.
> > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited
> it. I
> > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work.
> That's when
> > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> > after RDB bgms.
> >
> > Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> > namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
> >
> > I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on
> DVDs, but
> > it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some
> light on
> > that. But please notice the difference between the above
> mentioned
> > musical bits from DVD:
> >
> > a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> > 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a
> soundtrack like
> > some of the tracks in BOSE.
> > 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?
> > 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
> >
> > b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> > 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of origi

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[Vithur]

LOLZ LOLZ... Ban Kaissiom... he he.. No way..

Okay bros...dont worry. I have an alternative way , and Kaissiom Bhai
himself had suggested me to apply a disclaimer , whenever I share BGMs...

I will do it...

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 8:33 PM, lalisingh20 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   Vithur bhai, pls don't stop sharing the BGM.
>
> If you read kaissiom email carefully, I think he's saying it's ok
> toshare BGMs but not vocals.
>
> hey kaissiom, thanks for giving us the BGMs and taking it away from
> us. I was thinking do you mind if I ask you wat u do for a living...
> because ur emails are always long and serious.
>
> I have a solution to this dilemma: BAN kaissiom from posting anything
> on this group... and everything will return to normal.
>
>
> --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com ,
> "kaissiom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Aravind,
> >
> > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
> > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and
> > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> >
> > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here.
> > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
> > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
> > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
> > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
> > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
> > dedicated Rahman fan.
> >
> > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
> > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I
> > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when
> > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> > after RDB bgms.
> >
> > Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> > namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
> >
> > I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
> > it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
> > that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned
> > musical bits from DVD:
> >
> > a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> > 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
> > some of the tracks in BOSE.
> > 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?
> > 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
> >
> > b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> > 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are
> > extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is
> > available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
> > implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't
> > matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the
> > same song and the same vocals. Therefore, you are tampering with a
> > commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
> > copyright laws.
> > 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD
> > 3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.
> >
> > Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between
> > just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially
> > available in form of CD).
> >
> > The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be
> > very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like...
> > "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still
> > argue that BGMs are by themselves not available to the public in
> > commercial form. If there is demand for it then maybe these
> > producers/composers should start making BGMs commercially available...
> > that way we don't have to go through the process of ripping and
> > sharing these BGMS. It could be a market they are overlooking and
> > while they do something about it, we are filling up the void for the
> > die-hard fans and that too for "free". The "free" part is a big deal
> > because nobody is making money from these BGMs and that is what it
> > boils down to.. how much money did the copyright holders lose?
> >
> > On the other hand, copyright laws of Audio CD are very well defined.
> > Either the Record Company owns it(most of the times) or the producer
> > owns it or the composer owns it or they own it partially( Rahman is
> > working on it).
> > I believe full length vocals of any song should not be shared..for the
> > very same reason we do not share full length audio songs from Rahman's
> > CDs.
> >
> > Rahman is an excellent corporate citizen and he is our role model. We
> > should learn from him and follow him in his ideals as true fans. We
> > as a group and as true Rahman fans are against piracy and plagiarism.
> > Not just Rahman's... please buy original CDs and DVDs of all the
> > Artists you like!
> >
> > Make Rahman Proud,
> > Wasim.
> >
> > --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com ,
> Aravind AM  wrote:
> > 

[arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[lalisingh20]

Vithur bhai, pls don't stop sharing the BGM.

If you read kaissiom email carefully, I think he's saying it's ok
toshare BGMs but not vocals.

hey kaissiom, thanks for giving us the BGMs and taking it away from
us.  I was thinking do you mind if I ask you wat u do for a living...
because ur emails are always long and serious.

I have a solution to this dilemma: BAN kaissiom from posting anything
on this group... and everything will return to normal.

--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "kaissiom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dear Aravind, 
> 
> Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
> two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio.  I have numerous BGMs and
> other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> 
> The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here. 
> We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
>  And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
> unavailable bits and pieces.  But once we share something in the
> public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
> the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
> dedicated Rahman fan.
> 
> You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
>  And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it.  I
> felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work.  That's when
> I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> after RDB bgms.  
> 
> Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
> 
> I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
> it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
> that.  But please notice the difference between the above mentioned
> musical bits from DVD:
> 
> a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
> some of the tracks in BOSE.
> 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?  
> 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
> 
> b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD.  We are
> extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is
> available in the commercial form in original CD.  Commercial here
> implies money can be made from it.  And technically it shouldn't
> matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the
> same song and the same vocals.  Therefore, you are tampering with a
> commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
> copyright laws.
> 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD
> 3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.
> 
> Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between
> just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially
> available in form of CD).  
> 
> The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be
> very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like...
> "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still
> argue that BGMs are by themselves not available to the public in
> commercial form.  If there is demand for it then maybe these
> producers/composers should start making BGMs commercially available...
> that way we don't have to go through the process of ripping and
> sharing these BGMS.  It could be a market they are overlooking and
> while they do something about it, we are filling up the void for the
> die-hard fans and that too for "free".  The "free" part is a big deal
> because nobody is making money from these BGMs and that is what it
> boils down to.. how much money did the copyright holders lose?  
> 
> On the other hand, copyright laws of Audio CD are very well defined. 
> Either the Record Company owns it(most of the times) or the producer
> owns it or the composer owns it or they own it partially( Rahman is
> working on it).  
> I believe full length vocals of any song should not be shared..for the
> very same reason we do not share full length audio songs from Rahman's
> CDs.  
> 
> Rahman is an excellent corporate citizen and he is our role model.  We
> should learn from him and follow him in his ideals as true fans.  We
> as a group and as true Rahman fans are against piracy and plagiarism.
>  Not just Rahman's... please buy original CDs and DVDs of all the
> Artists you like!
> 
> Make Rahman Proud,
> Wasim.
> 
> --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Aravind AM  wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I have extracted voice only tracks of songs in Taal and Dil-Se...
> But, now I'm having second thoughts on uploading it to the group.
> > 
> > After seeing this series of mails on whether or not sharing this
> mail, I'm now thoroughly confused.  On reading kaissiom's mail, I
> could truly empathise with his argument. Whatever he has mentioned in
> his mail makes a lot of sense, and he is totally justified! 

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[K. Kumar]

BUT SERIOUSLY NOT ALL OF US CAN AFFORD TO ACTUALLY BUY ALL OF ARR'S DVD TO 
ENJOYS HIS PRECIOUS PEICES AND NOT IN ALL COUNTRIES IS ALL DVD AVAILABLE AND 
NOT ALL OF US CAN BUY THEM ONLINE SO THIS WAS A WONDERFUL WAY OF SHARING THE 
JOY OF ARR'S MUSIC ITS A  GREAT DISSAPPOINTMENT THAT IT CAN NO LONGET BE 
EXPERIENCED CAN SOMETHING ELSE BE DONE ABOUT THIS PLS... BEG ALL OF 
U... KAISOM,, VITHURAND ALL OTHER BROTHERS AND SISTERS

--- On Thu, 30/10/08, fani kalyan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: fani kalyan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 30 October, 2008, 9:34 PM











lol
From: Farzad khaleel <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com>
To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 6:32:13 PM
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
















Vithur, I have uploaded your BGM's in my website / blog. 

http://rahmaniac. wordpress. com/downloads/ bgm



Must I block the access to this page ? Please update me about this, Vithur 


Thanks in advance !


On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com> wrote:


















Agreed with NIven...
 
Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,, anywhere in any of the 
ARR Forums..
 
If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can be discussed in 
individual basis. 
 
If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our BOSS's sentiments, I 
am extremely sorry. I dont have the least thought even to disturb ARR anytime...
 
ARR is our motivation to even live in this world. 
 
God Bless ARR and everyone. 
 
Thanks. 


On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com> wrote:







Hello Friends,

I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing many BGM
uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and listening to
rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM are like


hidden albums that we wished was available on the soundtrack audio cd.

Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd for such gems
are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but hearing it has


been played on radio gives me goosebumps.. .

OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear such thing
about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think we need to
wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.



So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we should think of a
way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.

I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper and do our
oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen whenever we want.



Niven (Mauritius)

--- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, "kaissiom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>
> Dear Aravind, 
> 


> Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
> two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and
> other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> 


> The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here. 
> We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
> And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally


> unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
> public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
> the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,


> dedicated Rahman fan.
> 
> You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
> And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I
> felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when


> I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> after RDB bgms. 
> 
> Anyhow I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD


> 
> I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
> it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
> that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned


> musical bits from DVD:
> 
> a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
> some of the tracks in BOSE.
> 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know? 


> 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
> 
> b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are
> extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is


> available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
> implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't
>

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[K. Kumar]

ORITE THERE GOES.. IT ALL BYE BYE TO THE JOY OF BMGS... A GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT 
BROTHERS BUT IF ITS GOOD FOR ARR WAT ELSE TO SAY...

--- On Thu, 30/10/08, fani kalyan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: fani kalyan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, 30 October, 2008, 9:34 PM











lol
From: Farzad khaleel <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com>
To: arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 6:32:13 PM
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!
















Vithur, I have uploaded your BGM's in my website / blog. 

http://rahmaniac. wordpress. com/downloads/ bgm



Must I block the access to this page ? Please update me about this, Vithur 


Thanks in advance !


On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com> wrote:


















Agreed with NIven...
 
Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,, anywhere in any of the 
ARR Forums..
 
If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can be discussed in 
individual basis. 
 
If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our BOSS's sentiments, I 
am extremely sorry. I dont have the least thought even to disturb ARR anytime...
 
ARR is our motivation to even live in this world. 
 
God Bless ARR and everyone. 
 
Thanks. 


On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com> wrote:







Hello Friends,

I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing many BGM
uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and listening to
rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM are like


hidden albums that we wished was available on the soundtrack audio cd.

Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd for such gems
are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but hearing it has


been played on radio gives me goosebumps.. .

OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear such thing
about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think we need to
wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.



So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we should think of a
way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.

I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper and do our
oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen whenever we want.



Niven (Mauritius)

--- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, "kaissiom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>
> Dear Aravind, 
> 


> Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
> two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and
> other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> 


> The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here. 
> We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
> And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally


> unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
> public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
> the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,


> dedicated Rahman fan.
> 
> You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
> And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I
> felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when


> I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> after RDB bgms. 
> 
> Anyhow I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD


> 
> I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
> it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
> that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned


> musical bits from DVD:
> 
> a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
> some of the tracks in BOSE.
> 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know? 


> 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
> 
> b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are
> extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is


> available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
> implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't
> matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD because it's the


> same song and the same vocals. Therefore, you are tampering with a
> commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
> copyright laws.
> 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD


> 3. Viola

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[V S Rawat]

When music companies or video companies are not selling the bgms, why 
restrict sharing of bgms. It is not harming anybody's economic earnings.

Thanks.
--
Rawat

On 10/30/2008 6:32 PM India Time, _Farzad khaleel_ wrote:

> Vithur, I have uploaded your BGM's in my website / blog.
> 
> *http://rahmaniac.wordpress.com/downloads/bgm*
> 
> Must I block the access to this page ? Please update me about this, 
> Vithur
> 
> Thanks in advance !
> 
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
> 
> Agreed with NIven...
>  
> Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,, anywhere in
> any of the ARR Forums..
>  
> If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can be
> discussed in individual basis.
>  
> If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our BOSS's
> sentiments, I am extremely sorry. I dont have the least thought even
> to disturb ARR anytime...
>  
> ARR is our motivation to even live in this world.
>  
> God Bless ARR and everyone.
>  
> Thanks.
> 
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello Friends,
> 
> I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing many BGM
> uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and listening to
> rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM are like
> hidden albums that we wished was available on the soundtrack
> audio cd.
> 
> Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd for such
> gems
> are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but hearing
> it has
> been played on radio gives me goosebumps...
> 
> OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear such thing
> about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think we need to
> wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.
> 
> So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we should
> think of a
> way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.
> 
> I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper and do our
> oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen whenever
> we want.
> 
> Niven (Mauritius)
> 
> --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
> , "kaissiom"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  >
>  > Dear Aravind,
>  >
>  > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a
> year or
>  > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous
> BGMs and
>  > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
>  >
>  > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this
> group here.
>  > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and
> celebrate Rahman.
>  > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
>  > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
>  > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes
> available to
>  > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
>  > dedicated Rahman fan.
>  >
>  > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on
> the Radio.
>  > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited
> it. I
>  > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work.
> That's when
>  > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
>  > after RDB bgms.
>  >
>  > Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
>  > namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
>  >
>  > I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on
> DVDs, but
>  > it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some
> light on
>  > that. But please notice the difference between the above
> mentioned
>  > musical bits from DVD:
>  >
>  > a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
>  > 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a
> soundtrack like
>  > some of the tracks in BOSE.
>  > 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?
>  > 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
>  >
>  > b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
>  > 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD.
> We are
>  > extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact
> music is
>  > available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
>  > implies money can be made from it. And technicall

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[fani kalyan]

lol




From: Farzad khaleel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 6:32:13 PM
Subject: Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!


Vithur, I have uploaded your BGM's in my website / blog. 

http://rahmaniac. wordpress. com/downloads/ bgm


Must I block the access to this page ? Please update me about this, Vithur 

Thanks in advance !


On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com> wrote:

Agreed with NIven...
 
Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,, anywhere in any of the 
ARR Forums..
 
If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can be discussed in 
individual basis. 
 
If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our BOSS's sentiments, I 
am extremely sorry. I dont have the least thought even to disturb ARR anytime...
 
ARR is our motivation to even live in this world. 
 
God Bless ARR and everyone. 
 
Thanks. 


On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com> wrote:


Hello Friends,

I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing many BGM
uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and listening to
rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM are like
hidden albums that we wished was available on the soundtrack audio cd.

Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd for such gems
are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but hearing it has
been played on radio gives me goosebumps.. .

OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear such thing
about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think we need to
wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.

So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we should think of a
way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.

I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper and do our
oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen whenever we want.

Niven (Mauritius)

--- In arrahmanfans@ yahoogroups. com, "kaissiom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dear Aravind, 
> 
> Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
> two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and
> other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> 
> The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here. 
> We are all here for the same purpose to share and celebrate Rahman.
> And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
> unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
> public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
> the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
> dedicated Rahman fan.
> 
> You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
> And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I
> felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when
> I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> after RDB bgms. 
> 
> Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
> 
> I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
> it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
> that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned
> musical bits from DVD:
> 
> a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
> some of the tracks in BOSE.
> 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know? 
> 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
> 
> b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are
> extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is
> available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
> implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't
> matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the
> same song and the same vocals. Therefore, you are tampering with a
> commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
> copyright laws.
> 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD
> 3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.
> 
> Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between
> just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially
> available in form of CD). 
> 
> The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be
> very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like...
> "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still
> argue that BGMs are by themse

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[Farzad khaleel]

Vithur, I have uploaded your BGM's in my website / blog.

*http://rahmaniac.wordpress.com/downloads/bgm*


Must I block the access to this page ? Please update me about this,
Vithur

Thanks in advance !

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:23 PM, Vithur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>   Agreed with NIven...
>
> Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,, anywhere in any of
> the ARR Forums..
>
> If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can be discussed
> in individual basis.
>
> If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our BOSS's
> sentiments, I am extremely sorry. I dont have the least thought even to
> disturb ARR anytime...
>
> ARR is our motivation to even live in this world.
>
> God Bless ARR and everyone.
>
> Thanks.
>
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello Friends,
>>
>> I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing many BGM
>> uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and listening to
>> rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM are like
>> hidden albums that we wished was available on the soundtrack audio cd.
>>
>> Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd for such gems
>> are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but hearing it has
>> been played on radio gives me goosebumps...
>>
>> OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear such thing
>> about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think we need to
>> wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.
>>
>> So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we should think of a
>> way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.
>>
>> I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper and do our
>> oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen whenever we want.
>>
>> Niven (Mauritius)
>>
>> --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com ,
>> "kaissiom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > Dear Aravind,
>> >
>> > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
>> > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and
>> > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
>> >
>> > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here.
>> > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
>> > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
>> > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
>> > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
>> > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
>> > dedicated Rahman fan.
>> >
>> > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
>> > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I
>> > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when
>> > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
>> > after RDB bgms.
>> >
>> > Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
>> > namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
>> >
>> > I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
>> > it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
>> > that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned
>> > musical bits from DVD:
>> >
>> > a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
>> > 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
>> > some of the tracks in BOSE.
>> > 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?
>> > 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
>> >
>> > b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
>> > 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are
>> > extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is
>> > available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
>> > implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't
>> > matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the
>> > same song and the same vocals. Therefore, you are tampering with a
>> > commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
>> > copyright laws.
>> > 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD
>> > 3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.
>> >
>> > Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between
>> > just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially
>> > available in form of CD).
>> >
>> > The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be
>> > very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like...
>> > "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still
>> > argue that BGMs are by themselves not available to the public in
>> > commercial form. If there is demand for it then maybe these
>> > producers/composers should start making BGMs commercially available...
>> > that way we don't have to go through the process of ripping and
>> > sharing these BGMS. It 

Re: [arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[Vithur]

Agreed with NIven...

Henceforth, I would not be sharing any of the BGMs,,, anywhere in any of the
ARR Forums..

If at all, anyone is interested, Pls do mail me, and this can be discussed
in individual basis.

If my previous BGM rippings have by any chance hurted our BOSS's sentiments,
I am extremely sorry. I dont have the least thought even to disturb ARR
anytime...

ARR is our motivation to even live in this world.

God Bless ARR and everyone.

Thanks.

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 12:07 PM, nivensamy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> Hello Friends,
>
> I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing many BGM
> uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and listening to
> rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM are like
> hidden albums that we wished was available on the soundtrack audio cd.
>
> Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd for such gems
> are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but hearing it has
> been played on radio gives me goosebumps...
>
> OH MY GOD ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear such thing
> about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think we need to
> wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.
>
> So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we should think of a
> way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.
>
> I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper and do our
> oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen whenever we want.
>
> Niven (Mauritius)
>
> --- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com ,
> "kaissiom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Aravind,
> >
> > Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
> > two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio. I have numerous BGMs and
> > other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> >
> > The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here.
> > We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
> > And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
> > unavailable bits and pieces. But once we share something in the
> > public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
> > the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
> > dedicated Rahman fan.
> >
> > You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
> > And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it. I
> > felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work. That's when
> > I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> > after RDB bgms.
> >
> > Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> > namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
> >
> > I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
> > it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
> > that. But please notice the difference between the above mentioned
> > musical bits from DVD:
> >
> > a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> > 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
> > some of the tracks in BOSE.
> > 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?
> > 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
> >
> > b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> > 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD. We are
> > extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is
> > available in the commercial form in original CD. Commercial here
> > implies money can be made from it. And technically it shouldn't
> > matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the
> > same song and the same vocals. Therefore, you are tampering with a
> > commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
> > copyright laws.
> > 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD
> > 3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.
> >
> > Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between
> > just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially
> > available in form of CD).
> >
> > The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be
> > very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like...
> > "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still
> > argue that BGMs are by themselves not available to the public in
> > commercial form. If there is demand for it then maybe these
> > producers/composers should start making BGMs commercially available...
> > that way we don't have to go through the process of ripping and
> > sharing these BGMS. It could be a market they are overlooking and
> > while they do something about it, we are filling up the void for the
> > die-hard fans and that too for "free". The "free" part is a big deal
> > because nobody is making money from these BGMs and that is what it
> > boils down to.. how much money did the copyright holders lose?
> >
> > On the other hand, copyright laws of Audio CD are very well 

[arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[nivensamy]

Hello Friends,

I've been reading the mails about BGM and been seeing many BGM
uploaded. Just recently I've started downloading and listening to
rahman's magic thru BGM. Its a sure thing that these BGM are like
hidden albums that we wished  was available on the soundtrack audio cd.

Members should put tremendous effort in ripping vcd/dvd for such gems
are in fact doubling our joy of being a rahman fan but hearing it has
been played on radio gives me goosebumps...

OH MY GOD  ARRahman must be very very rankled to hear such thing
about his works. Im sure its not legal. Also I dont think we need to
wait a response from Gopal/Vijay or Rahman himself.

So guys, I know you are helping us innocently but we should think of a
way this does not affect our Boss's hard work.

I think we should each one of us have an audio dvd ripper and do our
oww BGM and ensure it stays safe with us and we listen whenever we want.

Niven (Mauritius)

--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, "kaissiom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Dear Aravind, 
> 
> Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
> two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio.  I have numerous BGMs and
> other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(
> 
> The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here. 
> We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
>  And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
> unavailable bits and pieces.  But once we share something in the
> public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
> the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
> dedicated Rahman fan.
> 
> You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
>  And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it.  I
> felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work.  That's when
> I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
> after RDB bgms.  
> 
> Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
> namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD
> 
> I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
> it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
> that.  But please notice the difference between the above mentioned
> musical bits from DVD:
> 
> a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
> 1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
> some of the tracks in BOSE.
> 2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?  
> 3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?
> 
> b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
> 1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD.  We are
> extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is
> available in the commercial form in original CD.  Commercial here
> implies money can be made from it.  And technically it shouldn't
> matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the
> same song and the same vocals.  Therefore, you are tampering with a
> commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
> copyright laws.
> 2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD
> 3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.
> 
> Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between
> just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially
> available in form of CD).  
> 
> The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be
> very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like...
> "All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still
> argue that BGMs are by themselves not available to the public in
> commercial form.  If there is demand for it then maybe these
> producers/composers should start making BGMs commercially available...
> that way we don't have to go through the process of ripping and
> sharing these BGMS.  It could be a market they are overlooking and
> while they do something about it, we are filling up the void for the
> die-hard fans and that too for "free".  The "free" part is a big deal
> because nobody is making money from these BGMs and that is what it
> boils down to.. how much money did the copyright holders lose?  
> 
> On the other hand, copyright laws of Audio CD are very well defined. 
> Either the Record Company owns it(most of the times) or the producer
> owns it or the composer owns it or they own it partially( Rahman is
> working on it).  
> I believe full length vocals of any song should not be shared..for the
> very same reason we do not share full length audio songs from Rahman's
> CDs.  
> 
> Rahman is an excellent corporate citizen and he is our role model.  We
> should learn from him and follow him in his ideals as true fans.  We
> as a group and as true Rahman fans are against piracy and plagiarism.
>  Not just Rahman's... please buy original CDs and DVDs of all the
> Artists you like!
> 
> Make Rahman Proud,
> Wasim.
> 
> --- 

[arr] Re: The dilemma about extracts from DVD!

[kaissiom]

Dear Aravind, 

Now you feel the dilemma I have been facing for at least a year or
two... ever since I heard my BGM on Radio.  I have numerous BGMs and
other High Quality rips from DVDs that I can't share :(

The fact is... we trust our brothers and sisters on this group here. 
We are all here for the same purpose... to share and celebrate Rahman.
 And it is with this spirit that we share these rare and generally
unavailable bits and pieces.  But once we share something in the
public space like this group, whatever we share becomes available to
the public, who doesn't necessarily have to be a true, devoted,
dedicated Rahman fan.

You can not imagine the pain I felt when I heard my BGM on the Radio.
 And I knew it was my BGM because it was edited.. I had edited it.  I
felt like I had somehow betrayed Rahman... his hard work.  That's when
I made the conscious decision to stop sharing BGMs.. it was right
after RDB bgms.  

Anyhow... I would definitely like to point out one major thing...
namely the difference between a)BGMs and b)Vocals from DVD

I'm not aware of the copyright laws about the soundtrack on DVDs, but
it would be great if someone(Amith Chandran?) could shed some light on
that.  But please notice the difference between the above mentioned
musical bits from DVD:

a)BGM (Background Music) bits:
1. Available commercially: NO.. unless released as a soundtrack like
some of the tracks in BOSE.
2. Rights owned by: Producer/Composer, don't know?  
3. Violations of copyright laws: Maybe, don't know?

b)Vocals (extracted from DVD):
1. Available commercially: YES.. in the form of original CD.  We are
extracting the music(vocals) from the DVD, but the same exact music is
available in the commercial form in original CD.  Commercial here
implies money can be made from it.  And technically it shouldn't
matter if you extract vocals from a CD or a DVD... because it's the
same song and the same vocals.  Therefore, you are tampering with a
commercially available product.. which definitely implies violation of
copyright laws.
2. Rights owned by: same right-holders as the original CD
3. Violated of copyright: Definitely YES.

Therefore, to conclude, we must note the obvious difference between
just a BGM(not commercially available) vs. Vocals(Commercially
available in form of CD).  

The copyright laws regarding BGMs are not very clear and may not be
very well defined in the legal system.. it may be something like...
"All rights of the DVD are owned by the producer"? But we can still
argue that BGMs are by themselves not available to the public in
commercial form.  If there is demand for it then maybe these
producers/composers should start making BGMs commercially available...
that way we don't have to go through the process of ripping and
sharing these BGMS.  It could be a market they are overlooking and
while they do something about it, we are filling up the void for the
die-hard fans and that too for "free".  The "free" part is a big deal
because nobody is making money from these BGMs and that is what it
boils down to.. how much money did the copyright holders lose?  

On the other hand, copyright laws of Audio CD are very well defined. 
Either the Record Company owns it(most of the times) or the producer
owns it or the composer owns it or they own it partially( Rahman is
working on it).  
I believe full length vocals of any song should not be shared..for the
very same reason we do not share full length audio songs from Rahman's
CDs.  

Rahman is an excellent corporate citizen and he is our role model.  We
should learn from him and follow him in his ideals as true fans.  We
as a group and as true Rahman fans are against piracy and plagiarism.
 Not just Rahman's... please buy original CDs and DVDs of all the
Artists you like!

Make Rahman Proud,
Wasim.

--- In arrahmanfans@yahoogroups.com, Aravind AM <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
> 
> I have extracted voice only tracks of songs in Taal and Dil-Se...
But, now I'm having second thoughts on uploading it to the group.
> 
> After seeing this series of mails on whether or not sharing this
mail, I'm now thoroughly confused.  On reading kaissiom's mail, I
could truly empathise with his argument. Whatever he has mentioned in
his mail makes a lot of sense, and he is totally justified! 
> 
> Now, I'm torn between the two  - joy of sharing and
ethics/copyright issues. 
> 
> Gopal and Vijay, It would be great if you could give your views on
the same!!
> 
> 
> Aravind
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://arrahmaniac.blogspot.com
> 
>  Download Rahmania show interviews at http://rahmania.4shared.com
> 
> 
>   Add more friends to your messenger and enjoy! Go to
http://messenger.yahoo.com/invite/
>