Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
Very well put. -al --- Sharon G. Boone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, sandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know who he was. One of the Wilson brothers from the Beach Boys! ];~) Wrong, again! This is August Wilson, one of the greatest playwrights, author, Tony Award Winner and American of our time. http://www.dartmouth.edu/~awilson/bio.html A very distinguished man, who wrote about the real America in all its' grittiness! A little respect wouldn't hurt. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Lighty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/3/05 4:27 PM, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary please don't mistake my question for an assertion. I've taken no position here. I'm just trying to understand what you are saying. I still need an answer. Why does a place like Great Adventure thrive financially with no government subsidy, yet theaters and art districts, which you maintain are big draws need subsidy? I guess you have to look at the bigger picture. Why do trashy television shows get better ratings than shows that try to make a statement? Why do trashy novels sell more than pure literature? One could say that in a free market society that this is a good thing; however, why is it that schools will include great literature in their classrooms but ignore the trashy novels that outsell those books 6- 1? Could it be because it's part of a greater good? I think so. I think that's why the government tries to help businesses get off of the ground. Let's face it, Six Flags is part of a gigantic corporation that can afford to run tons of ads down the throats of the masses while a normal theatre cannot ever expect to do so. While there is a lot of costs to running an amusement park or a Fortune 500 company, there are plenty of costs involved in running a theatre (as you, more than most, are aware of). In addition to rent, there are hefty utility costs, salaries to stagehands, directors, actors, lighting crews, stage designers, marketers, etc. Unfortunately, you would be very, very hard-pressed to survive at $20-$50 ticket prices. And that's the rub. Theatre exists to show the good and bad of society. It is our truth teller. It's our pathway from the past to the present and where we are headed. Theatre tries to do this at a price that people can afford. Sometimes it may seem expensive, but when compared to what a normal business would have to charge to make a profit (or just survive) it is a bargain. But that bargain comes with a price. It means tons of fundraising, begging everyone from single subscribers to giant corporations to the government. And the government plays the smallest role of any of them. It plays a necessary role, but a small one. Theatres have been forced to find alternative sources for 96-98% of their operating budget. What does it cost per person to subsidize PBS? It's a meaninglessly small number. I don't care if you never watch PBS, if you're gonna complain about what the government subsidizes towards arts culture than you better go through the budget and pick out the thousands of other things that have no bearing on your life and complain about those as well. Subsidization may sound awful, but it happens in almost every industry. Why do people feel bad about the poor farmer who's got a decision about selling the family farm for a couple of million dollars to a developer who wants to put up a shopping mall but they hate the fact that artists are being helped? Maybe the problem is that America shoots for the lowest common denominator. We despise our European roots because they still believe in things like art culture as defining a society. We fail to understand how there could be Muslims who are so offended by what we call art these days that they want our society to be wiped out. To MOST OF THE WORLD, arts culture is how they want to be remembered. I guess Americans would rather be remembered for how well their stock did today. We don't think of legacies or legends; heroes or people who changed the world. We think of immediate gratification. August Wilson passed away yesterday. In some places around the world, I expect there is a significant loss being felt. It's a shame that 99% of the people in America have no idea who Wilson was. And that's why the arts should be subsidized in my opinion. Because men like August Wilson have done so much for society that people SHOULD know about them instead of having them linger in obscurity... While we linger in ignorance. === message truncated ===
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
Let's get one thing straight blue bishop! That statement about muslims not liking the arts and want to kill everyone is bull. There are extremists in all religions. We are not all the same. Are you the same as your aryans? are you the same as your klansmen? are you the same as your nazi counterparts? If not ,trashcan that putting everyone in the same pot . LIke i said before, you are a racist sob. I'm muslim and i like everyone that likes me, if they don't like me, the earth is spacious enough where i don't have to be bothered with them or your crap!. It's people like youthat make it hard on the good people. YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
love the avatarswhere can I find them? YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
Title: AOL Email sorry www.smileycentral.com SPONSORED LINKS Asbury park home Asbury park nj Asbury park hotel Asbury park foreclosure Asbury park real estate Asbury park YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "AsburyPark" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
Isn't the fact that theater and art districts are in need of government funding proof that people really don't care enough about them to pay for them, and therefore proof that they are not the best tourist draws? Do you really think that Broadway, Off-Broadway, and Off-Off Broadway really doesn't play a role in: A) the identity of New York City B) tourist dollars for New York City C) jobs for New York City If you don't see this as an investment, there's really nothing I can do to change your mind except tell you to go to the theatre districts of NYC and see what it brings to the table night after night. It's easy to get people excited about the weekends. Things like theatre bring people to the hotels and restaurants and stores every single day. Instead of trying to answer or convince you of something that should be quite obvious, let me ask you this. Why is it that virtually EVERY town/city in America that has ever been reborn has done it through the arts or entertainment? If it's not important to subsidize and MAKE SURE the arts survive then explain to me why all of these towns loved to utilize the arts to make the property attractive to business owners and lure residents in? Of course, most towns/cities are stupid enough to try pushing the arts out after the property values are high enough... Then, like karma, the towns start their downward slide to obscurity again while the artists move and improve a different area. That's why I think Asbury Park is in a unique situation. It truly is close to starting over from scratch. Why not be the town to EMBRACE the arts instead of pushing them away after luring people to the area? Why follow the same pattern that everyone else does when you can use the arts to your advantage? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break -- give us all a break
On 10/3/05 4:02 PM, Skip Bernstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If thousands of people truly wish to flock to theater districts, why in the world would we have to subsidize them? Aren't people willing to pay for stuff they want? If millions of people truly wish to drive their automobiles on highways, rather than use bicycles, buses, cabs and trains, why in the world would we have to subsidize roads? Or why do we subsidize the airline industry? Why do we offer grants and assistance to business owners? If their idea is so great, why do they need money? In the end, societies are recognized and remembered for their art... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
On 10/3/05 4:27 PM, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary please don't mistake my question for an assertion. I've taken no position here. I'm just trying to understand what you are saying. I still need an answer. Why does a place like Great Adventure thrive financially with no government subsidy, yet theaters and art districts, which you maintain are big draws need subsidy? I guess you have to look at the bigger picture. Why do trashy television shows get better ratings than shows that try to make a statement? Why do trashy novels sell more than pure literature? One could say that in a free market society that this is a good thing; however, why is it that schools will include great literature in their classrooms but ignore the trashy novels that outsell those books 6-1? Could it be because it's part of a greater good? I think so. I think that's why the government tries to help businesses get off of the ground. Let's face it, Six Flags is part of a gigantic corporation that can afford to run tons of ads down the throats of the masses while a normal theatre cannot ever expect to do so. While there is a lot of costs to running an amusement park or a Fortune 500 company, there are plenty of costs involved in running a theatre (as you, more than most, are aware of). In addition to rent, there are hefty utility costs, salaries to stagehands, directors, actors, lighting crews, stage designers, marketers, etc. Unfortunately, you would be very, very hard-pressed to survive at $20-$50 ticket prices. And that's the rub. Theatre exists to show the good and bad of society. It is our truth teller. It's our pathway from the past to the present and where we are headed. Theatre tries to do this at a price that people can afford. Sometimes it may seem expensive, but when compared to what a normal business would have to charge to make a profit (or just survive) it is a bargain. But that bargain comes with a price. It means tons of fundraising, begging everyone from single subscribers to giant corporations to the government. And the government plays the smallest role of any of them. It plays a necessary role, but a small one. Theatres have been forced to find alternative sources for 96-98% of their operating budget. What does it cost per person to subsidize PBS? It's a meaninglessly small number. I don't care if you never watch PBS, if you're gonna complain about what the government subsidizes towards arts culture than you better go through the budget and pick out the thousands of other things that have no bearing on your life and complain about those as well. Subsidization may sound awful, but it happens in almost every industry. Why do people feel bad about the poor farmer who's got a decision about selling the family farm for a couple of million dollars to a developer who wants to put up a shopping mall but they hate the fact that artists are being helped? Maybe the problem is that America shoots for the lowest common denominator. We despise our European roots because they still believe in things like art culture as defining a society. We fail to understand how there could be Muslims who are so offended by what we call art these days that they want our society to be wiped out. To MOST OF THE WORLD, arts culture is how they want to be remembered. I guess Americans would rather be remembered for how well their stock did today. We don't think of legacies or legends; heroes or people who changed the world. We think of immediate gratification. August Wilson passed away yesterday. In some places around the world, I expect there is a significant loss being felt. It's a shame that 99% of the people in America have no idea who Wilson was. And that's why the arts should be subsidized in my opinion. Because men like August Wilson have done so much for society that people SHOULD know about them instead of having them linger in obscurity... While we linger in ignorance. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break -- give us all a break
On 10/3/05 4:49 PM, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or why do we subsidize the airline industry? Because they don't have a big enough commercial draw to sustain themselves. I don't understand. Why is that okay? People do not HAVE to fly. By subsidizing the industry and rescuing them time and time from bankruptcy courts, aren't we basically saying that we NEED to fly? When there are obviously alternative methods of transportation. Do conservatives complain about this? Just wondering, I really don't know whether they do or not; however, it would seem to be a perfect case of wasteful spending. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
On 10/3/05 5:20 PM, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: s for your invite to go through the budget and pick out other things I dislike, I intend to. I intend to cut completely, PBS, NPR and the National Endowment of the Arts. Let these freeloaders work for a living like the rest of us. If that is the only things you are against I suggest you go through the list again. You'll find many freeloaders in a zillion industries that are on the list thanks to campaign contributions and lobbists. My point is that it's a bit absurd for people to single out the arts in a budget like ours with pork everywhere and the arts only being the tiniest fraction of the budget. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
I agree that there are certainly pieces of art that I wouldn't call artwork, although I am sure that some people would think otherwise. I love being called a cultural elitist because it shows that people aren't paying attention. I want art - all forms of art. Express every viewpoint. I'm not looking to censor or get rid of anyone's point of view. You want to run a gallery presenting our glorious president in every aspect of his life - fine with me. You want to create a play showing how McCarthy should be considered one of the true heroes in America - fine with me. But when you want to cut off funding for the arts because it expresses opinions that you don't agree with, that's where we disagree. Personally, I think much of talk radio does nothing but spew lies and contribute to the divide in our society that we have today. But I'm not saying it should go away. I believe the idea of Americans being able to freely express themselves is the mark of a Patriot. To do less, is to be an enemy to all that America was supposed to be. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
On 10/3/05 5:32 PM, sandy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The only people I see outside that theater are drug dealers. They must be waiting to see West Side Story or Valley of the Dolls. ]:~) Guess it must be a different crowd on press nights... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
On 10/3/05 5:43 PM, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm with you. Let's cut the rest of the pork along with the arts. We can start with everything Democrat Senator (and former KKK recruiter) Robert Byrd has ever proposed in his entire career, since he holds the record for more pork projects than any other Senator in history (and he's still at it). Just curious, but why must everything be black or white for you? You RARELY answer a question like this without mentioning a Democrat yet the Republicans just rammed a transportation bill loaded with billions of dollars in PORK and you don't put that first on your list. Shouldn't that be first since the bill hasn't even been started yet, so nobody would miss it? This is why we need an INDEPENDENT to run the country. Yes, it would be incredibly difficult for one to ever win an election; yes, they would be in a constant battle with Congress. But they wouldn't be beholden to anyone and they just might be able to take the sports (my side, your side) edge out of politics. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Please... give me a break
On 10/3/05 10:59 PM, bluebishop82 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Proving Frank, that even back then the people didn't care enough about the Arts to support it on the open market. Right... And yet those same pieces deemed controversial or unworthy of being called art now command millions of dollars on the open market. Art is in the eyes of the beholder. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/Y2tolB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
