Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
Mikeda, Yes, please do call me Rajib. Thanks for taking the time to explain this. If indeed there is a blueprint that lays out the economic case for sovereignity, I would be very interested in knowing that. Rajib --- mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Dear Rajiv- can I call you that? Please give me a few days. You have genuine doubts-and you deserve replies. Don't give up thinking - I wrote to you "Think again" Best wishes mm - From: Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> CC: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:49:38 -0700 (PDT) >Oracle-da, > >The need to provide priority to its own constituents >over another sovereign state. The exact same reason >why the India, Burma, Thailand road runs through Assam >and Manipur and not through Bangladesh as is envisaged >today. > >To be the "redeemer" will take a significant amount of >money and expertise. Money and expertise will come if >the big powers agree to route through Assam. Taking >the scenario of a sovereign Assam, if India does not >give its confidence of using it as the economic center >of the economic networks in that region, nor will any >other country including China. These countries will >make peace with the devil if the devil has the might >to maintain order in the region. If India abdicates >its responsibility to maintain order here, guess who >else will? My guess - it will not be a sovereign >Assam. > >Mikeda, we simply need more logic and more convincing >:-) > >The alternative IMHO is not a growing cancer. > >The need for sovereignity is not established in a >coccoon. Sovereignity is closely linked with economic >prosperity and the addressing of opportunities. > >Does India have the military might to bring order to >the region? Absolutely. At this point it is perhaps >not prepared politically to have its own citizens pay >the price that needs to be paid. The economic costs >are not so high either. Like I said the prospect of >returns can be so high, countries in the region will >find a way - either to bring order or insulate >themselves from it. > >The alternative - the growing cancer you talk of - is >not something that the citizens of Assam will lap up. >I guess we all know that the primary thing they want >to get rid of is the cancer that has been with them >for a long time - they don't want the militants >carrying on their depradations on them and they do not >want the Indian military in there. Any kind of pulse >taken should show that people want peace to carry on >their own individual drives for economic prosperity. > >Unless sovereignity provides them the dream of better >opportunities NOW and that it is realizable without >ANY further costs, there will be very few takers for >sovereignity. Peace on the other hand will have the >majority of takers. > >Like me, there would be many others, looking to see >what are the ECONOMIC benefits (above all else) of a >sovereign Assam versus the costs. We haven't seen >anything logical as yet. > > > > > > > > > >--- mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >- > >Think again. > >If Assam solves the crisis of K,P,N,Liquid Fuel and >Energy-you have all the access into India and beyond >asa mostn favoured Nation-a provider-a redeemer. > >Trade will always be balanced--not like with Arabs. >All Imports And Exports will be in Indian Rupees at >world raes. > >Win Win situation. > >What else could anybody need. > >Alternative will be a growing Cancer-which finally >kills the host. > >(Oracle) mm > > > > > >- > >From: Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, >[EMAIL PROTECTED] >CC: assam@assamnet.org >Subject: Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong >Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:18:04 -0700 (PDT) > >Mikeda, > > > >I do not dispute your hypothesis that Assam could > >solve the problem of potassium, liquid energy and > >energy. I have not done enough analysis to comment > >either way. > > > >What I do dispute is that a sovereign Assam will not > >have access to Indian markets. That does not sound > >logical since a state seized from India will be felt > >inimical to it. Assam will never have any leverage > >over the directions India takes in building out these > >networks. > > > >In addition all those opportunities you talk about, > >there are others - big ideas all - that can impact > >both Indi
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
Dear Rajiv- can I call you that? Please give me a few days. You have genuine doubts-and you deserve replies. Don't give up thinking - I wrote to you "Think again"Best wishes mm From: Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Karbi AnglongDate: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:49:38 -0700 (PDT)>Oracle-da,>>The need to provide priority to its own constituents>over another sovereign state. The exact same reason>why the India, Burma, Thailand road runs through Assam>and Manipur and not through Bangladesh as is envisaged>today.>>To be the "redeemer" will take a significant amount of>money and expertise. Money and expertise will come if>the big powers agree to route through Assam. Taking>the scenario of a sovereign Assam, if India does not>give its confidence of using it as the economic center>of the economic networks in that region, nor will any>other country including China. These countries will>make peace with the devil if the devil has the might>to maintain order in the region. If India abdicates>its responsibility to maintain order here, guess who>else will? My guess - it will not be a sovereign>Assam.>>Mikeda, we simply need more logic and more convincing>:-)>>The alternative IMHO is not a growing cancer.>>The need for sovereignity is not established in a>coccoon. Sovereignity is closely linked with economic>prosperity and the addressing of opportunities.>>Does India have the military might to bring order to>the region? Absolutely. At this point it is perhaps>not prepared politically to have its own citizens pay>the price that needs to be paid. The economic costs>are not so high either. Like I said the prospect of>returns can be so high, countries in the region will>find a way - either to bring order or insulate>themselves from it.>>The alternative - the growing cancer you talk of - is>not something that the citizens of Assam will lap up.>I guess we all know that the primary thing they want>to get rid of is the cancer that has been with them>for a long time - they don't want the militants>carrying on their depradations on them and they do not>want the Indian military in there. Any kind of pulse>taken should show that people want peace to carry on>their own individual drives for economic prosperity.>>Unless sovereignity provides them the dream of better>opportunities NOW and that it is realizable without>ANY further costs, there will be very few takers for>sovereignity. Peace on the other hand will have the>majority of takers.>>Like me, there would be many others, looking to see>what are the ECONOMIC benefits (above all else) of a>sovereign Assam versus the costs. We haven't seen>anything logical as yet.>>>>>>>>>>--- mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>>>->>Think again.>>If Assam solves the crisis of K,P,N,Liquid Fuel and>Energy-you have all the access into India and beyond>asa mostn favoured Nation-a provider-a redeemer.>>Trade will always be balanced--not like with Arabs.>All Imports And Exports will be in Indian Rupees at>world raes.>>Win Win situation.>>What else could anybody need.>>Alternative will be a growing Cancer-which finally>kills the host.>>(Oracle) mm>>>>>>->>From: Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>CC: assam@assamnet.org>Subject: Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong>Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:18:04 -0700 (PDT)> >Mikeda,> >> >I do not dispute your hypothesis that Assam could> >solve the problem of potassium, liquid energy and> >energy. I have not done enough analysis to comment> >either way.> >> >What I do dispute is that a sovereign Assam will not> >have access to Indian markets. That does not sound> >logical since a state seized from India will be felt> >inimical to it. Assam will never have any leverage> >over the directions India takes in building out these> >networks.> >> >In addition all those opportunities you talk about,> >there are others - big ideas all - that can impact> >both India overall and our region economically. Such> >opportunities did not make sense in an earlier> >generation of India where the leadership clearly> >lacked vision and the public did not demand it. The> >world in India today is different. People want> >prosperity and are pretty impatient about it. Many> >politicians have realized it and work towards getting> >some work done.> >> >It is that time in India whe
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
Oracle-da, The need to provide priority to its own constituents over another sovereign state. The exact same reason why the India, Burma, Thailand road runs through Assam and Manipur and not through Bangladesh as is envisaged today. To be the "redeemer" will take a significant amount of money and expertise. Money and expertise will come if the big powers agree to route through Assam. Taking the scenario of a sovereign Assam, if India does not give its confidence of using it as the economic center of the economic networks in that region, nor will any other country including China. These countries will make peace with the devil if the devil has the might to maintain order in the region. If India abdicates its responsibility to maintain order here, guess who else will? My guess - it will not be a sovereign Assam. Mikeda, we simply need more logic and more convincing :-) The alternative IMHO is not a growing cancer. The need for sovereignity is not established in a coccoon. Sovereignity is closely linked with economic prosperity and the addressing of opportunities. Does India have the military might to bring order to the region? Absolutely. At this point it is perhaps not prepared politically to have its own citizens pay the price that needs to be paid. The economic costs are not so high either. Like I said the prospect of returns can be so high, countries in the region will find a way - either to bring order or insulate themselves from it. The alternative - the growing cancer you talk of - is not something that the citizens of Assam will lap up. I guess we all know that the primary thing they want to get rid of is the cancer that has been with them for a long time - they don't want the militants carrying on their depradations on them and they do not want the Indian military in there. Any kind of pulse taken should show that people want peace to carry on their own individual drives for economic prosperity. Unless sovereignity provides them the dream of better opportunities NOW and that it is realizable without ANY further costs, there will be very few takers for sovereignity. Peace on the other hand will have the majority of takers. Like me, there would be many others, looking to see what are the ECONOMIC benefits (above all else) of a sovereign Assam versus the costs. We haven't seen anything logical as yet. --- mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: - Think again. If Assam solves the crisis of K,P,N,Liquid Fuel and Energy-you have all the access into India and beyond asa mostn favoured Nation-a provider-a redeemer. Trade will always be balanced--not like with Arabs. All Imports And Exports will be in Indian Rupees at world raes. Win Win situation. What else could anybody need. Alternative will be a growing Cancer-which finally kills the host. (Oracle) mm - From: Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED] CC: assam@assamnet.org Subject: Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:18:04 -0700 (PDT) >Mikeda, > >I do not dispute your hypothesis that Assam could >solve the problem of potassium, liquid energy and >energy. I have not done enough analysis to comment >either way. > >What I do dispute is that a sovereign Assam will not >have access to Indian markets. That does not sound >logical since a state seized from India will be felt >inimical to it. Assam will never have any leverage >over the directions India takes in building out these >networks. > >In addition all those opportunities you talk about, >there are others - big ideas all - that can impact >both India overall and our region economically. Such >opportunities did not make sense in an earlier >generation of India where the leadership clearly >lacked vision and the public did not demand it. The >world in India today is different. People want >prosperity and are pretty impatient about it. Many >politicians have realized it and work towards getting >some work done. > >It is that time in India where the watchword is hope >and progress and by any account humongous economic >progress. It is into that India that the opportunities >of Assam will feed into. This requires an Assam that >is indelibly linked to India - not de-linked. > >Actually the way I see it - India (and Bangladesh and >Burma and USA and Thailand and USA and Europe and >whatever else is there) will get peace in our region >at any cost. If not for the love of Assam, this peace >will come because there is way too much money to be >made. > >For 40 years Assam was in the periphery - being a link >between worlds would bring the North East to somewhat >of an economic center. India will have an impetus to >make the NE that economic center over let's say >Bangladesh. Take a look
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
Think again.
If Assam solves the crisis of K,P,N,Liquid Fuel and Energy-you have all the access into India and beyond asa mostn favoured Nation-a provider-a redeemer.
Trade will always be balanced--not like with Arabs. All Imports And Exports will be in Indian Rupees at world raes.
Win Win situation.
What else could anybody need.
Alternative will be a growing Cancer-which finally kills the host.
(Oracle) mm
From: Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]CC: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Karbi AnglongDate: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 19:18:04 -0700 (PDT)>Mikeda,>>I do not dispute your hypothesis that Assam could>solve the problem of potassium, liquid energy and>energy. I have not done enough analysis to comment>either way.>>What I do dispute is that a sovereign Assam will not>have access to Indian markets. That does not sound>logical since a state seized from India will be felt>inimical to it. Assam will never have any leverage>over the directions India takes in building out these>networks.>>In addition all those
opportunities you talk about,>there are others - big ideas all - that can impact>both India overall and our region economically. Such>opportunities did not make sense in an earlier>generation of India where the leadership clearly>lacked vision and the public did not demand it. The>world in India today is different. People want>prosperity and are pretty impatient about it. Many>politicians have realized it and work towards getting>some work done.>>It is that time in India where the watchword is hope>and progress and by any account humongous economic>progress. It is into that India that the opportunities>of Assam will feed into. This requires an Assam that>is indelibly linked to India - not de-linked.>>Actually the way I see it - India (and Bangladesh and>Burma and
USA and Thailand and USA and Europe and>whatever else is there) will get peace in our region>at any cost. If not for the love of Assam, this peace>will come because there is way too much money to be>made.>>For 40 years Assam was in the periphery - being a link>between worlds would bring the North East to somewhat>of an economic center. India will have an impetus to>make the NE that economic center over let's say>Bangladesh. Take a look at the map of the region. A>sovereign Assam would be irrelevant - India can easily>route the routes through Bangaldesh.>>The real question is:>>Should Assam rather be sovereign and not take>advantage of the opportunities you and I are talking>about? Or should we be a part of India and take>advantage of those? Would we rather
have the jungle>reclaim us or move forward with a singular focus on>the prosperity of the region.>>Economically speaking I haven't seen a business case>built out for the former.>>It is in this context that we had a discussion some>time back as to what the objective for discussions>between ULFA and GOI should be - beyond the singular>word of sovereignity.>>People of NE benefit from having gotten as an outcome>of a negotiated settlement a humongous economic bonus>that the neglect of GOI and the depradations of the>militants have brought us. GOI will bite because>however huge an economic bonus will be far smaller>than the economic benefits that will accrue to both>Assam and
India.--- mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:>>>->>The Mother of Reasons of all human migration problems:>Bihari-Adibasi(maybe Jharkhand>origin),Karbi,Dimasa,Nagas(grabbing lower lands with>Delhi/CRP looking the other way)--- depletion of>Potassium from the soil.>>I wrote in the net that only Sovereign Assam can solve>India's food /unrest problem by supplying Potassium,>Phosphorus, PLUS half of India's liquid energy needs>--plus about half Electric energy needs.>>{No Sovereignty for Assam-- no Hope of " Great India">EVER.}>>Promise I won't repeat this "Asinine"
remark.>>mm>>mm>>->>From: SP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>To: assam@assamnet.org>Subject: [Assam] Karbi Anglong>Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:55:33 -0400> >> >Rajib Das wrote on Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:20:04 -0700> >> >+ I wonder what is the position of the Assam>separatists> >+ on this pernicious war between the two groups ->Karbis> >+ and Dimasas.> >+> >+ Going by the total silence on this - I assume>either> >+ the separatists are not interested in that>conflict.> >+> >+ I am sure there would be some that would
put the>blame> >+ on GOI - the Great Satan. But then it would be too> >+ simplistic, wouldn't it?> >> >the issue is land.> >> >this is not the first time that there has been a>killing.> >some time ago upds killed some biharis.> >> >wait, wait---biharis in karbi anglong?!> >> >you would be surprised, but there are a lot of>biharis> >in karbi anglong. the biharis are those who have>been> >displaced from bihar due to---you guessed it---land> >alienation. the land alienation in bihar gave rise> >to and sustained the maoist
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
Good perspective
Mayur
Chandigarh
--- Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mikeda,
>
> I do not dispute your hypothesis that Assam could
> solve the problem of potassium, liquid energy and
> energy. I have not done enough analysis to comment
> either way.
>
> What I do dispute is that a sovereign Assam will not
> have access to Indian markets. That does not sound
> logical since a state seized from India will be felt
> inimical to it. Assam will never have any leverage
> over the directions India takes in building out
> these
> networks.
>
> In addition all those opportunities you talk about,
> there are others - big ideas all - that can impact
> both India overall and our region economically. Such
> opportunities did not make sense in an earlier
> generation of India where the leadership clearly
> lacked vision and the public did not demand it. The
> world in India today is different. People want
> prosperity and are pretty impatient about it. Many
> politicians have realized it and work towards
> getting
> some work done.
>
> It is that time in India where the watchword is hope
> and progress and by any account humongous economic
> progress. It is into that India that the
> opportunities
> of Assam will feed into. This requires an Assam that
> is indelibly linked to India - not de-linked.
>
> Actually the way I see it - India (and Bangladesh
> and
> Burma and USA and Thailand and USA and Europe and
> whatever else is there) will get peace in our region
> at any cost. If not for the love of Assam, this
> peace
> will come because there is way too much money to be
> made.
>
> For 40 years Assam was in the periphery - being a
> link
> between worlds would bring the North East to
> somewhat
> of an economic center. India will have an impetus to
> make the NE that economic center over let's say
> Bangladesh. Take a look at the map of the region. A
> sovereign Assam would be irrelevant - India can
> easily
> route the routes through Bangaldesh.
>
> The real question is:
>
> Should Assam rather be sovereign and not take
> advantage of the opportunities you and I are talking
> about? Or should we be a part of India and take
> advantage of those? Would we rather have the jungle
> reclaim us or move forward with a singular focus on
> the prosperity of the region.
>
> Economically speaking I haven't seen a business case
> built out for the former.
>
> It is in this context that we had a discussion some
> time back as to what the objective for discussions
> between ULFA and GOI should be - beyond the singular
> word of sovereignity.
>
> People of NE benefit from having gotten as an
> outcome
> of a negotiated settlement a humongous economic
> bonus
> that the neglect of GOI and the depradations of the
> militants have brought us. GOI will bite because
> however huge an economic bonus will be far smaller
> than the economic benefits that will accrue to both
> Assam and India.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> -
>
> The Mother of Reasons of all human migration
> problems:
> Bihari-Adibasi(maybe Jharkhand
> origin),Karbi,Dimasa,Nagas(grabbing lower lands with
> Delhi/CRP looking the other way)--- depletion of
> Potassium from the soil.
>
> I wrote in the net that only Sovereign Assam can
> solve
> India's food /unrest problem by supplying
> Potassium,
> Phosphorus, PLUS half of India's liquid energy needs
> --plus about half Electric energy needs.
>
> {No Sovereignty for Assam-- no Hope of " Great
> India"
> EVER.}
>
> Promise I won't repeat this "Asinine" remark.
>
> mm
>
> mm
>
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> From: SP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: assam@assamnet.org
> Subject: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:55:33 -0400
> >
> >Rajib Das wrote on Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:20:04 -0700
> >
> >+ I wonder what is the position of the Assam
> separatists
> >+ on this pernicious war between the two groups -
> Karbis
> >+ and Dimasas.
> >+
> >+ Going by the total silence on this - I assume
> either
> >+ the separatists are not interested in that
> conflict.
> >+
> >+ I am sure there would be some that would put the
> blame
> >+ on GOI - the Great Satan. But then it would be
> too
> >+ simplistic, wouldn't it?
> >
> >the issue is land.
> >
> >this is not the first time that there has been a
> killing.
> >some time ago upds killed some biharis.
> >
> >wait, wait---biharis in karbi anglong?!
> >
> >you would be surprised, but there are a lot of
> biharis
> >in karbi anglong. the biharis are those who have
> been
> >displaced from bihar due to---you guessed it---land
> >alienation. the land alienation in bihar gave rise
> >to and sustained the maoist communist center kinds
> >and the opposing ranbir sena kinds, leading to
> >occasional massacres there. the land alienation
> problem
> >in bihar has now been exported to the karbi hills.
> >
> >this problem now will touch all t
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
Also, the "asinine" was a response to "assassment". A
PJ.
--- Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mikeda,
>
> I do not dispute your hypothesis that Assam could
> solve the problem of potassium, liquid energy and
> energy. I have not done enough analysis to comment
> either way.
>
> What I do dispute is that a sovereign Assam will not
> have access to Indian markets. That does not sound
> logical since a state seized from India will be felt
> inimical to it. Assam will never have any leverage
> over the directions India takes in building out
> these
> networks.
>
> In addition all those opportunities you talk about,
> there are others - big ideas all - that can impact
> both India overall and our region economically. Such
> opportunities did not make sense in an earlier
> generation of India where the leadership clearly
> lacked vision and the public did not demand it. The
> world in India today is different. People want
> prosperity and are pretty impatient about it. Many
> politicians have realized it and work towards
> getting
> some work done.
>
> It is that time in India where the watchword is hope
> and progress and by any account humongous economic
> progress. It is into that India that the
> opportunities
> of Assam will feed into. This requires an Assam that
> is indelibly linked to India - not de-linked.
>
> Actually the way I see it - India (and Bangladesh
> and
> Burma and USA and Thailand and USA and Europe and
> whatever else is there) will get peace in our region
> at any cost. If not for the love of Assam, this
> peace
> will come because there is way too much money to be
> made.
>
> For 40 years Assam was in the periphery - being a
> link
> between worlds would bring the North East to
> somewhat
> of an economic center. India will have an impetus to
> make the NE that economic center over let's say
> Bangladesh. Take a look at the map of the region. A
> sovereign Assam would be irrelevant - India can
> easily
> route the routes through Bangaldesh.
>
> The real question is:
>
> Should Assam rather be sovereign and not take
> advantage of the opportunities you and I are talking
> about? Or should we be a part of India and take
> advantage of those? Would we rather have the jungle
> reclaim us or move forward with a singular focus on
> the prosperity of the region.
>
> Economically speaking I haven't seen a business case
> built out for the former.
>
> It is in this context that we had a discussion some
> time back as to what the objective for discussions
> between ULFA and GOI should be - beyond the singular
> word of sovereignity.
>
> People of NE benefit from having gotten as an
> outcome
> of a negotiated settlement a humongous economic
> bonus
> that the neglect of GOI and the depradations of the
> militants have brought us. GOI will bite because
> however huge an economic bonus will be far smaller
> than the economic benefits that will accrue to both
> Assam and India.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> -
>
> The Mother of Reasons of all human migration
> problems:
> Bihari-Adibasi(maybe Jharkhand
> origin),Karbi,Dimasa,Nagas(grabbing lower lands with
> Delhi/CRP looking the other way)--- depletion of
> Potassium from the soil.
>
> I wrote in the net that only Sovereign Assam can
> solve
> India's food /unrest problem by supplying
> Potassium,
> Phosphorus, PLUS half of India's liquid energy needs
> --plus about half Electric energy needs.
>
> {No Sovereignty for Assam-- no Hope of " Great
> India"
> EVER.}
>
> Promise I won't repeat this "Asinine" remark.
>
> mm
>
> mm
>
>
>
>
>
> -
>
> From: SP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: assam@assamnet.org
> Subject: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:55:33 -0400
> >
> >Rajib Das wrote on Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:20:04 -0700
> >
> >+ I wonder what is the position of the Assam
> separatists
> >+ on this pernicious war between the two groups -
> Karbis
> >+ and Dimasas.
> >+
> >+ Going by the total silence on this - I assume
> either
> >+ the separatists are not interested in that
> conflict.
> >+
> >+ I am sure there would be some that would put the
> blame
> >+ on GOI - the Great Satan. But then it would be
> too
> >+ simplistic, wouldn't it?
> >
> >the issue is land.
> >
> >this is not the first time that there has been a
> killing.
> >some time ago upds killed some biharis.
> >
> >wait, wait---biharis in karbi anglong?!
> >
> >you would be surprised, but there are a lot of
> biharis
> >in karbi anglong. the biharis are those who have
> been
> >displaced from bihar due to---you guessed it---land
> >alienation. the land alienation in bihar gave rise
> >to and sustained the maoist communist center kinds
> >and the opposing ranbir sena kinds, leading to
> >occasional massacres there. the land alienation
> problem
> >in bihar has now been exported to the karbi hills.
> >
> >this pr
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
Mikeda,
I do not dispute your hypothesis that Assam could
solve the problem of potassium, liquid energy and
energy. I have not done enough analysis to comment
either way.
What I do dispute is that a sovereign Assam will not
have access to Indian markets. That does not sound
logical since a state seized from India will be felt
inimical to it. Assam will never have any leverage
over the directions India takes in building out these
networks.
In addition all those opportunities you talk about,
there are others - big ideas all - that can impact
both India overall and our region economically. Such
opportunities did not make sense in an earlier
generation of India where the leadership clearly
lacked vision and the public did not demand it. The
world in India today is different. People want
prosperity and are pretty impatient about it. Many
politicians have realized it and work towards getting
some work done.
It is that time in India where the watchword is hope
and progress and by any account humongous economic
progress. It is into that India that the opportunities
of Assam will feed into. This requires an Assam that
is indelibly linked to India - not de-linked.
Actually the way I see it - India (and Bangladesh and
Burma and USA and Thailand and USA and Europe and
whatever else is there) will get peace in our region
at any cost. If not for the love of Assam, this peace
will come because there is way too much money to be
made.
For 40 years Assam was in the periphery - being a link
between worlds would bring the North East to somewhat
of an economic center. India will have an impetus to
make the NE that economic center over let's say
Bangladesh. Take a look at the map of the region. A
sovereign Assam would be irrelevant - India can easily
route the routes through Bangaldesh.
The real question is:
Should Assam rather be sovereign and not take
advantage of the opportunities you and I are talking
about? Or should we be a part of India and take
advantage of those? Would we rather have the jungle
reclaim us or move forward with a singular focus on
the prosperity of the region.
Economically speaking I haven't seen a business case
built out for the former.
It is in this context that we had a discussion some
time back as to what the objective for discussions
between ULFA and GOI should be - beyond the singular
word of sovereignity.
People of NE benefit from having gotten as an outcome
of a negotiated settlement a humongous economic bonus
that the neglect of GOI and the depradations of the
militants have brought us. GOI will bite because
however huge an economic bonus will be far smaller
than the economic benefits that will accrue to both
Assam and India.
--- mc mahant <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
-
The Mother of Reasons of all human migration problems:
Bihari-Adibasi(maybe Jharkhand
origin),Karbi,Dimasa,Nagas(grabbing lower lands with
Delhi/CRP looking the other way)--- depletion of
Potassium from the soil.
I wrote in the net that only Sovereign Assam can solve
India's food /unrest problem by supplying Potassium,
Phosphorus, PLUS half of India's liquid energy needs
--plus about half Electric energy needs.
{No Sovereignty for Assam-- no Hope of " Great India"
EVER.}
Promise I won't repeat this "Asinine" remark.
mm
mm
-
From: SP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: assam@assamnet.org
Subject: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:55:33 -0400
>
>Rajib Das wrote on Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:20:04 -0700
>
>+ I wonder what is the position of the Assam
separatists
>+ on this pernicious war between the two groups -
Karbis
>+ and Dimasas.
>+
>+ Going by the total silence on this - I assume
either
>+ the separatists are not interested in that
conflict.
>+
>+ I am sure there would be some that would put the
blame
>+ on GOI - the Great Satan. But then it would be too
>+ simplistic, wouldn't it?
>
>the issue is land.
>
>this is not the first time that there has been a
killing.
>some time ago upds killed some biharis.
>
>wait, wait---biharis in karbi anglong?!
>
>you would be surprised, but there are a lot of
biharis
>in karbi anglong. the biharis are those who have
been
>displaced from bihar due to---you guessed it---land
>alienation. the land alienation in bihar gave rise
>to and sustained the maoist communist center kinds
>and the opposing ranbir sena kinds, leading to
>occasional massacres there. the land alienation
problem
>in bihar has now been exported to the karbi hills.
>
>this problem now will touch all those in karbi and
other
>areas. it will pit one tribe against the other. it
will
>pit tribals against the illegal immigrants (as it did
at nellie
>some decades ago). and it will pit tribals against
biharis,
>bengalis and what have you. and the biharis and
bengalis
>will retaliate, as the biharis did following the upds
attack.
>
>if you are trying to take a few cheap shots at
militancy this
>time, please don't. w
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
The Mother of Reasons of all human migration problems: Bihari-Adibasi(maybe Jharkhand origin),Karbi,Dimasa,Nagas(grabbing lower lands with Delhi/CRP looking the other way)--- depletion of Potassium from the soil.
I wrote in the net that only Sovereign Assam can solve India's food /unrest problem by supplying Potassium, Phosphorus, PLUS half of India's liquid energy needs --plus about half Electric energy needs.
{No Sovereignty for Assam-- no Hope of " Great India" EVER.}
Promise I won't repeat this "Asinine" remark.
mm
mm
From: SP <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: assam@assamnet.orgSubject: [Assam] Karbi AnglongDate: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 12:55:33 -0400>>Rajib Das wrote on Mon, 17 Oct 2005 15:20:04 -0700>>+ I wonder what is the position of the Assam separatists>+ on this pernicious war between the two groups - Karbis>+ and Dimasas.>+>+ Going by the total silence on this - I assume either>+ the separatists are not interested in that conflict.>+>+ I am sure there would be some that would put the blame>+ on GOI - the Great Satan. But then it would be too>+ simplistic, wouldn't it?>>the issue is land.>>this is not the
first time that there has been a killing.>some time ago upds killed some biharis.>>wait, wait---biharis in karbi anglong?!>>you would be surprised, but there are a lot of biharis>in karbi anglong. the biharis are those who have been>displaced from bihar due to---you guessed it---land>alienation. the land alienation in bihar gave rise>to and sustained the maoist communist center kinds>and the opposing ranbir sena kinds, leading to>occasional massacres there. the land alienation problem>in bihar has now been exported to the karbi hills.>>this problem now will touch all those in karbi and other>areas. it will pit one tribe against the other. it will>pit tribals against the illegal immigrants (as it did at nellie>some
decades ago). and it will pit tribals against biharis,>bengalis and what have you. and the biharis and bengalis>will retaliate, as the biharis did following the upds attack.>>if you are trying to take a few cheap shots at militancy this>time, please don't. well, for one, we don't know who did this>particular massacre. (most probably we will never know---do>we know who did nellie, so many years ago, or dimapur railway>station last year?). they were in black fatigues it is said,>but surprisingly they did not use ak-47's. they used the village>dao. they hacked the passengers and threw them into the>fire. in a way those at nellie used daos, bows and arrows.>this was not an ordinary political killing by
insurgent>groups. this was tribal warfare.>>>+ What is the solution to this and to a million other>+ mutinies that often are against each other and not a>+ part of the one great mutiny.>>the solution is land reforms, to begin with. followed>by other measures to protect and integrate the tribals.>this is the bare minimum.>>but this will never be done. was it done in bihar?>(it was done in bengal, by the cpim. if they had't>done so, those killed by the upds would have been>bengalis, not biharis). most probably, the problem>will fester, as it has done for so many years in the>karbi hills, with an occasional massacre here and there.>>the problem of land is not just something
which has been>imported from bihar and which will impact only the tribals.>you might have come across news of at least two huge rallies>in assam in the last few months by people (non-tribals>mostly) demanding government pattas for their lands and>which turned violent. this is another powder keg we are>sitting on.>>xourov>>___>assam mailing list>assam@assamnet.org>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
___
assam mailing list
assam@assamnet.org
http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
There is an onging GOI/GOA- monitored ceasefire between Dimasas and Karbis. Do you expect outlawed Ulfa to poke their nose here? BJP bigwigs are there today ,but are being told to keep out by Dr. Jayanta Rongpi. mm From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: Rajib Das <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, assam@assamnet.orgSubject: Re: [Assam] Karbi AnglongDate: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 08:27:10 -0500> > >Poor marks on basic inferential> >capabilities :-) Important things first: Sorry if that comment is continuing to>haunt you. But those are self invited. Such responses are not>'swayambhu', they usually are results of very poor attempts at spin,>if not disingenuous arguments altogether. Unfortunately those don't>work very well like a grenade thrown right back, unless there is a>good reason. It a only demonstrates how badly it stung.>>> >As always your hatred of things Indian takes over your senses.>> Well, well, well! The ultimate explanation, the mokordhwaj>answer to all that could not be explained or responded to-- MY hatred>for all things Indian :-). Unfortunately, I am only the messenger. I>did not create the dysfunctional desi-demokrasy nor did I help create>their devotees. > >If> >you notice the question related only to the reaction> >of separatists to this internecine war that is going> >on between Karbis and Dimasas.>>> Just because you choose to conveniently deal with it in>isolation, I don't have to fall for it. Because it is not something>that happened in isolation. It is deeply rooted and tied to the>disarray in Indian Govt. and its institutions of state, including>those of conflict-resolution, which is non-existent, and its rotten>to the core system of political representation, which are based on>everything but issues that effect the lives of real people.>At 9:27 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote:> >As always your hatred of things Indian takes over your> >senses. This question had nothing to do with India. If> >you notice the question related only to the reaction> >of separatists to this internecine war that is going> >on between Karbis and Dimasas.> >> >Now then, because you start fuming and frothing even> >before you have understood the question, you move> >forward with a response that half the time is a> >question and half the time is a mindless diatribe> >against India. Neither of which have any connection> >with the original question posed.> >> >Evidently it is not a reasonable explanation or an> >answer at all. Poor marks on basic inferential> >capabilities :-)> >> >> >> >> >--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> >> >> At 3:31 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote:> >> >Why not answer a question with an answer for once> >> :-)> >>> >>> >> *** For a very simple reason: Because those who> >> defend and deify the> >> dysfunctional, have the first responsibility to show> >> what their idols> >> have done, having held the power and controlled the> >> resources. They> >> are the ones to show what they have done, what they> >> are doing, what> >> they will do in the future to change things. And if> >> they are doing> >> the right things, why are things the way they are?> >>> >> Those who want change, don't have any power, don't> >> have access to> >> resources, not to mention the responsibilities. But> >> at least they are> >> willing to shoulder the responsibilities.> >>> >> Would that be a reasonable explanation? Or is that> >> too hard to fathom?> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> >> >> >> >> What would be the solution of the Indianistas?> >> How> >> >> have they tried to> >> >> prevent it from playing out, what have they done> >> ,> >> >> with their fingers> >> >> on the controls pof power and the resources? How> >> has> >> >> the great Indian> >> >> democracy prevented it from happening, or how it> >> is> >> >> finding solutions> >> >> for it?> >> >>> >> >> I will wait to hear with bated breath.> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >> At 3:19 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote:> >> >> >I wonder what is the position of the Assam> >> >> separatists> >> >> >on this pernicious war between the two groups -> >> >> Karbis> >> >> >and Dimasas.> >> >> >> >> >> >Going by the total silence on this - I assume> >> >> either> >> >> >the separatists are not interested in that> >> >> conflict.> >> >> >> >> >> >I am sure there would be some that would put> >> the> >> >> blame> >> >> >on GOI - the Great Satan. But then it would be> >> too> > > >> >simplistic, wouldn't it?> >> >> >> >> >> >What is the solution to this and to a million> >> other> >> >> >mutinies that often are against each other and> >> not> >> >> a> >> >> >part of the one great mutiny.> >> >> >> >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >__> >> >Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home> >> page!> >> >http://
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
> >Poor marks on basic inferential >capabilities :-) Important things first: Sorry if that comment is continuing to haunt you. But those are self invited. Such responses are not 'swayambhu', they usually are results of very poor attempts at spin, if not disingenuous arguments altogether. Unfortunately those don't work very well like a grenade thrown right back, unless there is a good reason. It a only demonstrates how badly it stung. >As always your hatred of things Indian takes over your senses. Well, well, well! The ultimate explanation, the mokordhwaj answer to all that could not be explained or responded to-- MY hatred for all things Indian :-). Unfortunately, I am only the messenger. I did not create the dysfunctional desi-demokrasy nor did I help create their devotees. > >If >you notice the question related only to the reaction >of separatists to this internecine war that is going >on between Karbis and Dimasas. Just because you choose to conveniently deal with it in isolation, I don't have to fall for it. Because it is not something that happened in isolation. It is deeply rooted and tied to the disarray in Indian Govt. and its institutions of state, including those of conflict-resolution, which is non-existent, and its rotten to the core system of political representation, which are based on everything but issues that effect the lives of real people. At 9:27 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote: >As always your hatred of things Indian takes over your >senses. This question had nothing to do with India. If >you notice the question related only to the reaction >of separatists to this internecine war that is going >on between Karbis and Dimasas. > >Now then, because you start fuming and frothing even >before you have understood the question, you move >forward with a response that half the time is a >question and half the time is a mindless diatribe >against India. Neither of which have any connection >with the original question posed. > >Evidently it is not a reasonable explanation or an >answer at all. Poor marks on basic inferential >capabilities :-) > > > > >--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> At 3:31 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote: >> >Why not answer a question with an answer for once >> :-) >> >> >> *** For a very simple reason: Because those who >> defend and deify the >> dysfunctional, have the first responsibility to show >> what their idols >> have done, having held the power and controlled the >> resources. They >> are the ones to show what they have done, what they >> are doing, what >> they will do in the future to change things. And if >> they are doing >> the right things, why are things the way they are? >> >> Those who want change, don't have any power, don't >> have access to >> resources, not to mention the responsibilities. But >> at least they are >> willing to shoulder the responsibilities. >> >> Would that be a reasonable explanation? Or is that >> too hard to fathom? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > >> >> What would be the solution of the Indianistas? >> How >> >> have they tried to >> >> prevent it from playing out, what have they done >> , >> >> with their fingers >> >> on the controls pof power and the resources? How >> has >> >> the great Indian >> >> democracy prevented it from happening, or how it >> is >> >> finding solutions >> >> for it? >> >> >> >> I will wait to hear with bated breath. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 3:19 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote: >> >> >I wonder what is the position of the Assam >> >> separatists >> >> >on this pernicious war between the two groups - >> >> Karbis >> >> >and Dimasas. >> >> > >> >> >Going by the total silence on this - I assume >> >> either >> >> >the separatists are not interested in that >> >> conflict. >> >> > >> >> >I am sure there would be some that would put >> the >> >> blame >> >> >on GOI - the Great Satan. But then it would be >> too > > >> >simplistic, wouldn't it? >> >> > >> >> >What is the solution to this and to a million >> other >> >> >mutinies that often are against each other and >> not >> >> a >> >> >part of the one great mutiny. >> >> > >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >__ >> >Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home >> page! >> >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs >> > > > > > >__ >Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 >http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
As always your hatred of things Indian takes over your senses. This question had nothing to do with India. If you notice the question related only to the reaction of separatists to this internecine war that is going on between Karbis and Dimasas. Now then, because you start fuming and frothing even before you have understood the question, you move forward with a response that half the time is a question and half the time is a mindless diatribe against India. Neither of which have any connection with the original question posed. Evidently it is not a reasonable explanation or an answer at all. Poor marks on basic inferential capabilities :-) --- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 3:31 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote: > >Why not answer a question with an answer for once > :-) > > > *** For a very simple reason: Because those who > defend and deify the > dysfunctional, have the first responsibility to show > what their idols > have done, having held the power and controlled the > resources. They > are the ones to show what they have done, what they > are doing, what > they will do in the future to change things. And if > they are doing > the right things, why are things the way they are? > > Those who want change, don't have any power, don't > have access to > resources, not to mention the responsibilities. But > at least they are > willing to shoulder the responsibilities. > > Would that be a reasonable explanation? Or is that > too hard to fathom? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> What would be the solution of the Indianistas? > How > >> have they tried to > >> prevent it from playing out, what have they done > , > >> with their fingers > >> on the controls pof power and the resources? How > has > >> the great Indian > >> democracy prevented it from happening, or how it > is > >> finding solutions > >> for it? > >> > >> I will wait to hear with bated breath. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> At 3:19 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote: > >> >I wonder what is the position of the Assam > >> separatists > >> >on this pernicious war between the two groups - > >> Karbis > >> >and Dimasas. > >> > > >> >Going by the total silence on this - I assume > >> either > >> >the separatists are not interested in that > >> conflict. > >> > > >> >I am sure there would be some that would put > the > >> blame > >> >on GOI - the Great Satan. But then it would be > too > >> >simplistic, wouldn't it? > >> > > >> >What is the solution to this and to a million > other > >> >mutinies that often are against each other and > not > >> a > >> >part of the one great mutiny. > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > >__ > >Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home > page! > >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
At 3:31 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote: >Why not answer a question with an answer for once :-) *** For a very simple reason: Because those who defend and deify the dysfunctional, have the first responsibility to show what their idols have done, having held the power and controlled the resources. They are the ones to show what they have done, what they are doing, what they will do in the future to change things. And if they are doing the right things, why are things the way they are? Those who want change, don't have any power, don't have access to resources, not to mention the responsibilities. But at least they are willing to shoulder the responsibilities. Would that be a reasonable explanation? Or is that too hard to fathom? > >--- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> What would be the solution of the Indianistas? How >> have they tried to >> prevent it from playing out, what have they done , >> with their fingers >> on the controls pof power and the resources? How has >> the great Indian >> democracy prevented it from happening, or how it is >> finding solutions >> for it? >> >> I will wait to hear with bated breath. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 3:19 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote: >> >I wonder what is the position of the Assam >> separatists >> >on this pernicious war between the two groups - >> Karbis >> >and Dimasas. >> > >> >Going by the total silence on this - I assume >> either >> >the separatists are not interested in that >> conflict. >> > >> >I am sure there would be some that would put the >> blame >> >on GOI - the Great Satan. But then it would be too >> >simplistic, wouldn't it? >> > >> >What is the solution to this and to a million other >> >mutinies that often are against each other and not >> a >> >part of the one great mutiny. >> > >> > > > > >__ >Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! >http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
Why not answer a question with an answer for once :-) --- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What would be the solution of the Indianistas? How > have they tried to > prevent it from playing out, what have they done , > with their fingers > on the controls pof power and the resources? How has > the great Indian > democracy prevented it from happening, or how it is > finding solutions > for it? > > I will wait to hear with bated breath. > > > > > > > At 3:19 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote: > >I wonder what is the position of the Assam > separatists > >on this pernicious war between the two groups - > Karbis > >and Dimasas. > > > >Going by the total silence on this - I assume > either > >the separatists are not interested in that > conflict. > > > >I am sure there would be some that would put the > blame > >on GOI - the Great Satan. But then it would be too > >simplistic, wouldn't it? > > > >What is the solution to this and to a million other > >mutinies that often are against each other and not > a > >part of the one great mutiny. > > > __ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
Re: [Assam] Karbi Anglong
What would be the solution of the Indianistas? How have they tried to prevent it from playing out, what have they done , with their fingers on the controls pof power and the resources? How has the great Indian democracy prevented it from happening, or how it is finding solutions for it? I will wait to hear with bated breath. At 3:19 PM -0700 10/17/05, Rajib Das wrote: >I wonder what is the position of the Assam separatists >on this pernicious war between the two groups - Karbis >and Dimasas. > >Going by the total silence on this - I assume either >the separatists are not interested in that conflict. > >I am sure there would be some that would put the blame >on GOI - the Great Satan. But then it would be too >simplistic, wouldn't it? > >What is the solution to this and to a million other >mutinies that often are against each other and not a >part of the one great mutiny. > ___ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
