Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Ira]

At 05:39 AM 5/6/2011, you wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, Ira. It makes me very sad to hear what you 
say and I hope that we can get more resources from the community to 
assist in the process to make it more friendly. We want to get those 
bug reports. The one thing I hate to hear when I'm travelling at 
conferences is that "oh, I known that bug for a long time but did 
not bother to report it."


Apologies for your experience with the bug process.


No worries, I'm not angry, and I'm weirdly good at finding bugs no 
one else can so I'm used to being ignored.


Ira 



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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Watkins, Bradley]

>
>Thanks for the feedback, Ira. It makes me very sad to hear what you say and I
>hope that we can get more resources from the community to assist in the
>process to make it more friendly. We want to get those bug reports. The one
>thing I hate to hear when I'm travelling at conferences is that "oh, I known
>that bug for a long time but did not bother to report it."
>
>Apologies for your experience with the bug process.
>

Indeed, it seems as though there might be a problem of discoverability of how 
to report issues.

Is it too burdensome to suggest attaching this link (along with a short 
description) to the footer of list e-mails?

http://www.asterisk.org/developers/bug-guidelines

That does a fair job (though not perfect, and I think suggestions for 
improvement are welcome) of detailing the process.  It's probably also 
incumbent upon us all, as a community, to do a better job than just "report it 
on Mantis".  I'm quite certain every one of us would like the most stable, 
bug-free code in Asterisk as is possible, and if it takes an extra minute or 
two of our time to help get the issues reported in the first place it will be 
time well-spent.

- Brad

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Olle E. Johansson]

5 maj 2011 kl. 18.30 skrev Ira:

> At 07:56 AM 5/5/2011, you wrote:
>> So how can we fix this?  How can we get more people involded?  What makes 
>> projects like FedoraTesting[3] and DebianTesting[4] popular?  How can the 
>> Asterisk project reproduce their success?
> 
> Well, it's not a lot of people willing to run beta software on their phone 
> system. Phones need to work and for most people they need to work perfectly 
> all the time. I'm one of those oddities that will always run beta software if 
> given the chance but my experience is that quite rare.
> 
>> As I've said before, I'm more then willing to help with answering questions 
>> about the testsuite or reviewing code that people want to get merged in.  We 
>> also have an IRC channel, #asterisk-testing available for people to join, 
>> ask question, idle, lurk, etc, or if you want to reply to this thread, feel 
>> free.  But get involved! :)
> 
> So I'm the person who has never been able to keep 1.8 alive on my system for 
> more than a minute or two and I've probably tried more than 10 different 
> betas and release versions. I posted a bug report which was closed in 
> minutes, I posted the problem on this list every few tries and zero response. 
> I tried to figure out mIRC. It's installed on my machine but I've never got 
> past that. I just don't get the instructions.
> 
> I know that all the people involved in the project are Linux heads, but some 
> of us, like me, have a Linux box only because of Asterisk and if you want my 
> help, you need to make being involved accessible and stop assuming we all 
> know what you know. I see the words, "jut post a bug report on Mantis" posted 
> all the time and I'm sure it means as little to others as it means to me. 
> Maybe there needs to be a web page somewhere, "Asterisk beta testing for 
> dummies" so that you can point us to so you don't have to answer the stupid 
> questions over and over.
> 
> I've beta tested enough and had enough beta testers to understand the kinds 
> of things that make it possible to get bugs fixed, but it's usually a very 
> small percentage of users that understand that.

Thanks for the feedback, Ira. It makes me very sad to hear what you say and I 
hope that we can get more resources from the community to assist in the process 
to make it more friendly. We want to get those bug reports. The one thing I 
hate to hear when I'm travelling at conferences is that "oh, I known that bug 
for a long time but did not bother to report it." 

Apologies for your experience with the bug process.

Regards,
/Olle



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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Ira]

At 01:07 PM 5/5/2011, you wrote:
Fair enough, what are some examples of questions you have?  It only 
takes a moment to create a new wiki page and start documenting 
them.  If you willing to provide the questions and feedback, I'm 
more then happy to write them on the wiki.


So to start, I'm a user with what I think is a bug. Where is the page 
telling me step by step how to report it? The word Mantis is not enough.


Where do I go?
What do you need from me to help you understand the problem?
If you think I should ask on IRC, how do I get there.  For dummies, I 
have mIRC, I think I've followed the directions on how to connect to 
the asterisk channel and yet, all I ever get is "Unable to resolve 
server" and I've no idea why and the pages I'm pointed to either 
haven't helped or haven't made any sense.

How will I know if you need additional information from me?
How do I clean up submitted logs and conf files so I'm not giving 
away the farm?
How do I get log files that the team would find useful, probably 
including how to find them?


I'd guess that would be a start.  



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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Andrew Joakimsen]

I am still using Asterisk 1.4 because of the Asterisk GUI. I don't
understand why it was ever dropped, it's easy to setup (no SQL
databases), quick, works well and in my experiance it gets along with
manual config file changes.

The only real issue I've encountered with 1.4 is Digium can't seem to
properly build RPMs...


Med Vennlig Hilsen,

A. Helge Joakimsen

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Sherwood McGowan]

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 11:02 PM, Matt Riddell  wrote:

> On 6/05/11 3:14 PM, Ira wrote:
>
>> At 03:00 PM 5/5/2011, you wrote:
>>
>>  Yes, but in my world there is one Atom powerd Linux box running
 Asterisk, 4 or 5 Windows machines and 2 Macs. If I want to test, it has
 to be on my production box and I'm more than happy to run beta software
 on that box. My comment is just that the protocol for me helping you is
 not clear to me. I have been beta testing since 1985 when I was able to
 crash Brief on the Novell network I used at work.

>>>
>>> Were you beta testing using your production servers then?
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, I use my one and only server for testing. Brave and foolish soul
>> that I am!
>>
>
> :-)
>
> Fair enough then!
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Matt Riddell
> ___
>
> http://www.venturevoip.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News)
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>
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I Like Turtles.

'nuff said...get a beer!

-- 
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Telecommunications and VOIP Consultant
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Matt Riddell]

On 6/05/11 3:14 PM, Ira wrote:

At 03:00 PM 5/5/2011, you wrote:


Yes, but in my world there is one Atom powerd Linux box running
Asterisk, 4 or 5 Windows machines and 2 Macs. If I want to test, it has
to be on my production box and I'm more than happy to run beta software
on that box. My comment is just that the protocol for me helping you is
not clear to me. I have been beta testing since 1985 when I was able to
crash Brief on the Novell network I used at work.


Were you beta testing using your production servers then?



Yes, I use my one and only server for testing. Brave and foolish soul
that I am!


:-)

Fair enough then!

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Ira]

At 03:00 PM 5/5/2011, you wrote:


Yes, but in my world there is one Atom powerd Linux box running
Asterisk, 4 or 5 Windows machines and 2 Macs. If I want to test, it has
to be on my production box and I'm more than happy to run beta software
on that box. My comment is just that the protocol for me helping you is
not clear to me. I have been beta testing since 1985 when I was able to
crash Brief on the Novell network I used at work.


Were you beta testing using your production servers then?



Yes, I use my one and only server for testing. Brave and foolish soul 
that I am!


Ira


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Matt Riddell]

On 6/05/11 8:35 AM, Ira wrote:

At 01:07 PM 5/5/2011, you wrote:

I am not saying using production servers to test, rather reproducing
your production setups in a test environment. You would then create
test plans or test cases of the features you use in Asterisk. Once
documented, for each and every RC of Asterisk you go through the steps
outlined in your test plan / case, confirming this work as expected
and then documenting the results.


Yes, but in my world there is one Atom powerd Linux box running
Asterisk, 4 or 5 Windows machines and 2 Macs. If I want to test, it has
to be on my production box and I'm more than happy to run beta software
on that box. My comment is just that the protocol for me helping you is
not clear to me. I have been beta testing since 1985 when I was able to
crash Brief on the Novell network I used at work.


Were you beta testing using your production servers then?

--
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___

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Ira]

At 01:07 PM 5/5/2011, you wrote:
I am not saying using production servers to test, rather reproducing 
your production setups in a test environment.  You would then create 
test plans or test cases of the features you use in Asterisk.  Once 
documented, for each and every RC of Asterisk you go through the 
steps outlined in your test plan / case, confirming this work as 
expected and then documenting the results.


Yes, but in my world there is one Atom powerd Linux box running 
Asterisk, 4 or 5 Windows machines and 2 Macs. If I want to test, it 
has to be on my production box and I'm more than happy to run beta 
software on that box. My comment is just that the protocol for me 
helping you is not clear to me. I have been beta testing since 1985 
when I was able to crash Brief on the Novell network I used at work.


Ira 



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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Paul Belanger]

On 11-05-05 04:11 PM, Mark Deneen wrote:

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Paul Belanger  wrote:


On 11-05-05 12:30 PM, Ira wrote:


At 07:56 AM 5/5/2011, you wrote:


So how can we fix this? How can we get more people involded? What
makes projects like FedoraTesting[3] and DebianTesting[4] popular? How
can the Asterisk project reproduce their success?



Well, it's not a lot of people willing to run beta software on their
phone system. Phones need to work and for most people they need to work
perfectly all the time. I'm one of those oddities that will always run
beta software if given the chance but my experience is that quite rare.

  I am not saying using production servers to test, rather reproducing your

production setups in a test environment.  You would then create test plans
or test cases of the features you use in Asterisk.  Once documented, for
each and every RC of Asterisk you go through the steps outlined in your test
plan / case, confirming this work as expected and then documenting the
results.



Not everyone has spare dahdi hardware / analog T circuits, but I agree.

Yes, so in that scenario test cases / plans should be generic as 
possible so the underlying channel technology does not matter.


I realize certain situations or feature will require DAHDI hardware, and 
that is fine. People with the spare equipment can report back results if 
possible. However a test case which is create to verify app_voicemail 
can (as should) be run against all channel types; with the results 
documented as required.


--
Paul Belanger
Digium, Inc. | Software Developer
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Mark Deneen]

On Thu, May 5, 2011 at 4:07 PM, Paul Belanger  wrote:

> On 11-05-05 12:30 PM, Ira wrote:
>
>> At 07:56 AM 5/5/2011, you wrote:
>>
>>> So how can we fix this? How can we get more people involded? What
>>> makes projects like FedoraTesting[3] and DebianTesting[4] popular? How
>>> can the Asterisk project reproduce their success?
>>>
>>
>> Well, it's not a lot of people willing to run beta software on their
>> phone system. Phones need to work and for most people they need to work
>> perfectly all the time. I'm one of those oddities that will always run
>> beta software if given the chance but my experience is that quite rare.
>>
>>  I am not saying using production servers to test, rather reproducing your
> production setups in a test environment.  You would then create test plans
> or test cases of the features you use in Asterisk.  Once documented, for
> each and every RC of Asterisk you go through the steps outlined in your test
> plan / case, confirming this work as expected and then documenting the
> results.
>
>
> Not everyone has spare dahdi hardware / analog T circuits, but I agree.
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Paul Belanger]

On 11-05-05 12:30 PM, Ira wrote:

At 07:56 AM 5/5/2011, you wrote:

So how can we fix this? How can we get more people involded? What
makes projects like FedoraTesting[3] and DebianTesting[4] popular? How
can the Asterisk project reproduce their success?


Well, it's not a lot of people willing to run beta software on their
phone system. Phones need to work and for most people they need to work
perfectly all the time. I'm one of those oddities that will always run
beta software if given the chance but my experience is that quite rare.

I am not saying using production servers to test, rather reproducing 
your production setups in a test environment.  You would then create 
test plans or test cases of the features you use in Asterisk.  Once 
documented, for each and every RC of Asterisk you go through the steps 
outlined in your test plan / case, confirming this work as expected and 
then documenting the results.



As I've said before, I'm more then willing to help with answering
questions about the testsuite or reviewing code that people want to
get merged in. We also have an IRC channel, #asterisk-testing
available for people to join, ask question, idle, lurk, etc, or if you
want to reply to this thread, feel free. But get involved! :)


So I'm the person who has never been able to keep 1.8 alive on my system
for more than a minute or two and I've probably tried more than 10
different betas and release versions. I posted a bug report which was
closed in minutes, I posted the problem on this list every few tries and
zero response. I tried to figure out mIRC. It's installed on my machine
but I've never got past that. I just don't get the instructions.

Then let's create some instructions; a test case.  If you can only run 
Asterisk 1.8 on a system for no more then two minutes and you have tried 
10 different version, with the proper instructions everybody else can 
reproduce the issue.  More importantly, a developer looking at the issue 
will have the exact steps required to cause the problem.



I know that all the people involved in the project are Linux heads, but
some of us, like me, have a Linux box only because of Asterisk and if
you want my help, you need to make being involved accessible and stop
assuming we all know what you know. I see the words, "jut post a bug
report on Mantis" posted all the time and I'm sure it means as little to
others as it means to me. Maybe there needs to be a web page somewhere,
"Asterisk beta testing for dummies" so that you can point us to so you
don't have to answer the stupid questions over and over.

Fair enough, what are some examples of questions you have?  It only 
takes a moment to create a new wiki page and start documenting them.  If 
you willing to provide the questions and feedback, I'm more then happy 
to write them on the wiki.



I've beta tested enough and had enough beta testers to understand the
kinds of things that make it possible to get bugs fixed, but it's
usually a very small percentage of users that understand that.


+1

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Bryant Zimmerman]

 

 From: "Ira" 
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 12:38 PM
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion" 

Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 
behind?

At 07:56 AM 5/5/2011, you wrote:
>So how can we fix this? How can we get more people involded? What 
>makes projects like FedoraTesting[3] and DebianTesting[4] 
>popular? How can the Asterisk project reproduce their success?

Well, it's not a lot of people willing to run beta software on their 
phone system. Phones need to work and for most people they need to 
work perfectly all the time. I'm one of those oddities that will 
always run beta software if given the chance but my experience is 
that quite rare.

>As I've said before, I'm more then willing to help with answering 
>questions about the testsuite or reviewing code that people want to 
>get merged in. We also have an IRC channel, #asterisk-testing 
>available for people to join, ask question, idle, lurk, etc, or if 
>you want to reply to this thread, feel free. But get involved! :)

So I'm the person who has never been able to keep 1.8 alive on my 
system for more than a minute or two and I've probably tried more 
than 10 different betas and release versions. I posted a bug report 
which was closed in minutes, I posted the problem on this list every 
few tries and zero response. I tried to figure out mIRC. It's 
installed on my machine but I've never got past that. I just don't 
get the instructions.

I know that all the people involved in the project are Linux heads, 
but some of us, like me, have a Linux box only because of Asterisk 
and if you want my help, you need to make being involved accessible 
and stop assuming we all know what you know. I see the words, "jut 
post a bug report on Mantis" posted all the time and I'm sure it 
means as little to others as it means to me. Maybe there needs to be 
a web page somewhere, "Asterisk beta testing for dummies" so that you 
can point us to so you don't have to answer the stupid questions over and 
over.

I've beta tested enough and had enough beta testers to understand the 
kinds of things that make it possible to get bugs fixed, but it's 
usually a very small percentage of users that understand that.

Ira 

---

Ira

Contact me off list and we can have a conversation. We are running 1.6.2.x 
boxes and 1.8.x boxes very successfully. We have had issues with 1.8.x but 
that is to be expected as it has been bleeding edge at times.  I am not a 
linux expert either but if I may be ableo to point you in the right 
direction. Your determination to support Asterisk is what the community 
needs if I can help foster that I would be happy to do so.  I am only where 
I am at because others invested some time in me.  

examples: The power of IRC chats. I spend three days on the freenas forums 
and could not solve a problem I was just pulling my hair out. I took 20 min 
to get up to speed with irc using IceChat and after 1.5 hours on the 
freenas board the problem was solved and I was diving deep into the guts of 
the freenas 8 system. it was a game changer for me.

Bryant
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Ira]

At 07:56 AM 5/5/2011, you wrote:
So how can we fix this?  How can we get more people involded?  What 
makes projects like FedoraTesting[3] and DebianTesting[4] 
popular?  How can the Asterisk project reproduce their success?


Well, it's not a lot of people willing to run beta software on their 
phone system. Phones need to work and for most people they need to 
work perfectly all the time. I'm one of those oddities that will 
always run beta software if given the chance but my experience is 
that quite rare.


As I've said before, I'm more then willing to help with answering 
questions about the testsuite or reviewing code that people want to 
get merged in.  We also have an IRC channel, #asterisk-testing 
available for people to join, ask question, idle, lurk, etc, or if 
you want to reply to this thread, feel free.  But get involved! :)


So I'm the person who has never been able to keep 1.8 alive on my 
system for more than a minute or two and I've probably tried more 
than 10 different betas and release versions. I posted a bug report 
which was closed in minutes, I posted the problem on this list every 
few tries and zero response. I tried to figure out mIRC. It's 
installed on my machine but I've never got past that. I just don't 
get the instructions.


I know that all the people involved in the project are Linux heads, 
but some of us, like me, have a Linux box only because of Asterisk 
and if you want my help, you need to make being involved accessible 
and stop assuming we all know what you know. I see the words, "jut 
post a bug report on Mantis" posted all the time and I'm sure it 
means as little to others as it means to me. Maybe there needs to be 
a web page somewhere, "Asterisk beta testing for dummies" so that you 
can point us to so you don't have to answer the stupid questions over and over.


I've beta tested enough and had enough beta testers to understand the 
kinds of things that make it possible to get bugs fixed, but it's 
usually a very small percentage of users that understand that.


Ira 



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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Paul Belanger]

On 11-05-04 06:01 PM, Matt Riddell wrote:

On 3/05/11 4:01 AM, Hans Witvliet wrote:

Just a thought
If "Digium" / "the community" realy want an objective way of deciding
whether can/should migrate to any other version, you realy need a
feature-matrix (pethaps starting from version 1.2.*)

And for every and each version a statement if it is:
- discontinued
- tested
- test finalized, result indicating it is fully and identically
functional
- test finalized, result indicating that this feature is changed in
either behaviour of configuration
- not yet tested.


+1 From me - this would be fantastic!



Here is the thing, there is nothing stopping 'the community' today from 
doing this.  In fact, we already have a testsuite [1] in place, running 
each subversion commit and producing results for the last year.  But 
this is only one type of testing; automated, we also have unit tests 
built into Asterisk that run too (EG: a unit test to parse SIP URI). 
Again, each subversion commit we run the tests and validate results.


There is still lots of work that needs to be done though. More test 
plans and test cases to be added, more code to be written and libraries 
added, getting more people involved in testing Asterisk Release 
Candidates (RCs) or patches on the issue tracker.


That is the hardest part, getting people involved.  Sure it is easy to 
say Asterisk is not stable, not production ready or it crashes all the 
time; fair enough but we have tools in place to help resolve that. Just 
in this thread alone I don't believe one person has answered the call of 
Olle to volunteer time to help maintain Asterisk 1.4 (if I am incorrect 
please speak up, I must have missed your name). Additionally, this 
almost exact point was raise on the asterisk-dev mailing list in 2009 
[1] (a great read BTW, lots of great ideas) however due to the lack of 
interest it did not go to far.


So how can we fix this?  How can we get more people involded?  What 
makes projects like FedoraTesting[3] and DebianTesting[4] popular?  How 
can the Asterisk project reproduce their success?


As I've said before, I'm more then willing to help with answering 
questions about the testsuite or reviewing code that people want to get 
merged in.  We also have an IRC channel, #asterisk-testing available for 
people to join, ask question, idle, lurk, etc, or if you want to reply 
to this thread, feel free.  But get involved! :)


[1] http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-dev/2010-February/042387.html
[2] http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-dev/2009-March/037262.html
[3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraTesting
[4] http://www.debian.org/releases/testing/

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Olle E. Johansson]

5 maj 2011 kl. 12.04 skrev Paul Hayes:

> On 05/05/11 05:41, Cary Fitch wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>Flavio E. Goncalves
>>www.asteriskguide.com 
>> 
>>Compare to which version of Windows… Patches are a never ending process
>> 
>>Cary Fitch
>> 
>> 
> 
> I think this attitude is half the problem.  Asterisk is not a desktop 
> computer operating system.  It is the engine for a telephone system, a 
> telephone system needs to be much more reliable than a desktop PC if it is 
> going to continue to compete in a growing industry.
> 
> I agree with the comments on concentrating more on stability than new 
> features.  It's hard because it is new features that make good stories and 
> are easier to shout about in order to get a product better known.
> 
> For now I am sticking with 1.4 mainly (although I am using 1.6 where I need 
> BRI connectivity) but my plan is to move to 1.8 when I feel I have tested it 
> enough and it's been around for long enough to be proven.

Great. You are part of the test team :-)

One has to remember that this is open source. We need to work together to 
stabilize 1.8. No one else is going to do it for it - and I feel it needs to be 
done.

Thanks for your help!

/O


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Paul Hayes]

On 05/05/11 05:41, Cary Fitch wrote:



Flavio E. Goncalves
www.asteriskguide.com 

Compare to which version of Windows… Patches are a never ending process

Cary Fitch




I think this attitude is half the problem.  Asterisk is not a desktop 
computer operating system.  It is the engine for a telephone system, a 
telephone system needs to be much more reliable than a desktop PC if it 
is going to continue to compete in a growing industry.


I agree with the comments on concentrating more on stability than new 
features.  It's hard because it is new features that make good stories 
and are easier to shout about in order to get a product better known.


For now I am sticking with 1.4 mainly (although I am using 1.6 where I 
need BRI connectivity) but my plan is to move to 1.8 when I feel I have 
tested it enough and it's been around for long enough to be proven.


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Olle E. Johansson]

5 maj 2011 kl. 06.33 skrev Olivier:

> 
> 
> 2011/5/5 Flavio Goncalves 
> 
> but stuffing Asterisk with
> many  new features on each version does not seem to be contributing to
> the stability of the code or the migration to newer versions.
> 
> yes but it seems to me that code stability is improving.
> Maybe next 1.10.0 version will be "production-ready" from day 1 ?

Unless a lot of users step in to test the pre-releases, that will not happen 
with new code in this project or any other project. It just takes time. The 
more people that test, file bug reports, patch code and helps us through the 
process, the better.

I would like to suggest that the community put more eyes towards helping with 
the test system. The test system, as Russell pointed out earlier, is a huge 
improvement that saves us from repeating a lot of mistakes. Ideally, for every 
bug fix we should add a test to make sure it doesn't come back... The test 
system makes every release better than previous releases. And it can help in 
your installation as well!

/O




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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Olle E. Johansson]

5 maj 2011 kl. 05.28 skrev Flavio Goncalves:

> My 2 cents. All these problems seem to be lack of focus. Digium,
> please stop doing everything to everyone. Too many versions, too many
> features, too many code, too many bugs. Following the Pareto's
> principle, 80% of the users use only 20% of the code. My suggestion is
> to start thinking of Asterisk as a platform taking care of only 20% of
> the code. Digium is in position to create a market place for free and
> commercial Asterisk applications, drivers and modules. Look at some
> other open source communities such as Joomla at
> http://extensions.joomla.org, There are more than a thousand modules
> maintained by the community. Imagine, do you want a multitenant
> parking module? Great there is one in Digium App Store for a few
> dollars. Digium could have its own commercial modules. Support for 3rd
> party applications would be up to the 3rd party developers. Why iPhone
> developers make money and Asterisk developer's usually don't? If
> people pay for silly games in iPhones wouldn't they pay for a Unistim
> driver if they have hundreds of compatible phones?

What you are describing is in the architecture for Asterisk SCF. The "F" stands 
for Framework, which hints at the ideas behind it.

Asterisk as it exists today has been around for a long time. There are many, 
many extensions around and we also have the forge and the marketplace. It will 
be hard removing stuff from the distribution, imagine the reaction - 
considering my latest reaction to the 1.4 actions :-)

> 
> I would like to say that I have a deep respect for Asterisk and Digium
> that redefined the global telephony market, but stuffing Asterisk with
> many  new features on each version does not seem to be contributing to
> the stability of the code or the migration to newer versions.

Thanks for your input!

/O
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Cary Fitch]

  _  

From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Olivier
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 11:33 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

 

 

2011/5/5 Flavio Goncalves 


but stuffing Asterisk with
many  new features on each version does not seem to be contributing to
the stability of the code or the migration to newer versions.


yes but it seems to me that code stability is improving.
Maybe next 1.10.0 version will be "production-ready" from day 1 ?
 


Flavio E. Goncalves
www.asteriskguide.com



 

Compare to which version of Windows. Patches are a never ending process

 

Cary Fitch

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Olivier]

2011/5/5 Flavio Goncalves 


> but stuffing Asterisk with
> many  new features on each version does not seem to be contributing to
> the stability of the code or the migration to newer versions.
>

yes but it seems to me that code stability is improving.
Maybe next 1.10.0 version will be "production-ready" from day 1 ?


>
> Flavio E. Goncalves
> www.asteriskguide.com
>
>
>
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Flavio Goncalves]

My 2 cents. All these problems seem to be lack of focus. Digium,
please stop doing everything to everyone. Too many versions, too many
features, too many code, too many bugs. Following the Pareto's
principle, 80% of the users use only 20% of the code. My suggestion is
to start thinking of Asterisk as a platform taking care of only 20% of
the code. Digium is in position to create a market place for free and
commercial Asterisk applications, drivers and modules. Look at some
other open source communities such as Joomla at
http://extensions.joomla.org, There are more than a thousand modules
maintained by the community. Imagine, do you want a multitenant
parking module? Great there is one in Digium App Store for a few
dollars. Digium could have its own commercial modules. Support for 3rd
party applications would be up to the 3rd party developers. Why iPhone
developers make money and Asterisk developer's usually don't? If
people pay for silly games in iPhones wouldn't they pay for a Unistim
driver if they have hundreds of compatible phones?

I would like to say that I have a deep respect for Asterisk and Digium
that redefined the global telephony market, but stuffing Asterisk with
many  new features on each version does not seem to be contributing to
the stability of the code or the migration to newer versions.

Flavio E. Goncalves
www.asteriskguide.com





2011/5/4 Matt Riddell :
> On 3/05/11 4:01 AM, Hans Witvliet wrote:
>>
>> Just a thought
>> If "Digium" / "the community" realy want an objective way of deciding
>> whether can/should migrate to any other version, you realy need a
>> feature-matrix (pethaps starting from version 1.2.*)
>>
>> And for every and each version a statement if it is:
>> - discontinued
>> - tested
>> - test finalized, result indicating it is fully and identically
>> functional
>> - test finalized, result indicating that this feature is changed in
>> either behaviour of configuration
>> - not yet tested.
>
> +1 From me - this would be fantastic!
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> Matt Riddell
> ___
>
> http://www.venturevoip.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News)
> http://www.venturevoip.com/exchange.php (Full ITSP Solution)
> http://www.venturevoip.com/cc.php (Call Centre Solutions)
>
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Matt Riddell]

On 3/05/11 4:01 AM, Hans Witvliet wrote:

Just a thought
If "Digium" / "the community" realy want an objective way of deciding
whether can/should migrate to any other version, you realy need a
feature-matrix (pethaps starting from version 1.2.*)

And for every and each version a statement if it is:
- discontinued
- tested
- test finalized, result indicating it is fully and identically
functional
- test finalized, result indicating that this feature is changed in
either behaviour of configuration
- not yet tested.


+1 From me - this would be fantastic!

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___

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Hans Witvliet]

On Wed, 2011-04-27 at 21:34 +0200, Olle E. Johansson wrote:
> Friends,
> 
> We have a discussion on asterisk-dev about the maintenance of the 1.4 branch. 
> According to the release plans, support for 1.4 was scheduled to close in 
> April 2011 - basically now. 
> After that, only security patches would be committed. This is already a delay 
> from the original plan published by Russell Bryant.
> 
> Unfortunately, I think this is way too early. 
> My feeling and experience is that 1.8 is not ready for production in the 
> environments I work in - large scale installations. 
> Customers are not planning migration and all new installs are still 1.4.
> Tests we've been doing with 1.8 has failed within just a short time and so 
> badly that customers has not paid me to spend any further time with 1.8.
> 

Just a thought
If "Digium" / "the community" realy want an objective way of deciding
whether can/should migrate to any other version, you realy need a
feature-matrix (pethaps starting from version 1.2.*)

And for every and each version a statement if it is:
- discontinued
- tested
- test finalized, result indicating it is fully and identically
functional
- test finalized, result indicating that this feature is changed in
either behaviour of configuration
- not yet tested.

I realize it is quite a job to do, but if done it would be for everyone
easily to see if it is worthwhile to start migrating.

Anyway for both documentation purposes and bugtracking it would be nice
if each and "every feature" has a unique numerique identifier.

And perhaps there is a fair chance that the people from the quality
department at Digium already have such a list.


hw

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Danny Nicholas]

To add another shilling to the pot - 

 

Asterisk as a whole and 1.4 specifically is a very good product.  Problems
are introduced (IMHO) when y'all take something that works perfectly well
and try to over-engineer it as a "release bell-and-whistle" instead of an
add-on.  Voicemail and Multi-tenant parking are great examples that come to
mind.  If you're a clunker like me, you would rather keep everything in text
files and use AGI's to do bell-and-whistle stuff.  But NOOO - you have to
disable these new "features" because the developer was so hot to get it into
the new release that he (that's a "royal he") puts it up for inclusion and
we give 1000 users a bad impression of the new release when he could have
made it an add-on and more thoroughly tested it and gave us all that 3 days
of sleep we will never get back.

 

>From a simple point of view, 1.8 works just as well as 1.4 for 99 percent of
everything I do, but then again, I don't do nearly as much as other posters
on here.

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Richard Zheng]

> > Now imagine that 1.4 stays at only security level. For first case we
> > have 2 options: upgrading for security reasons to last version but
> > then no more voicemail, or staying with 1.4.26. In the second case,
> > upgrading both servers to test with 1.8. If it's still not working, it
> was time
> > loose beside other problems.
>
> If there are obvious regressions in major functionality such as voicemail,
> I'm more than happy to still consider making fixes for those problems during
> the "security maintenance" period.  It has to be pretty clear, though, and
> in this particular case, it is.
>
> Voicemail has been through several issues. Can't remember the details, we
experienced issues when imap was added. It broke the file based voicemails
even when imap was not used. As long as major bugs, like this and deadlocks
are taken care of during the 'security maintenance' period, most people are
happy. New features should be only added as a separate patch for risk
takers. The main branch should be major bugs only.
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Mark Deneen]

Satish,

You must register your handle with freenode, because the asterisk
channel only allows registered people in.

http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup

-M

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 11:41 AM, satish patel  wrote:
> Hey Matt,
>
> I have download irc linux base CLI client and connect to irc.freenode.net  i
> can see bunch or channels but i didn't find any #asterisk or #asterisk-bugs
> name. Am i looking at wrong place ?
>
> *** #asterisk You're not on that channel
> *** #asterisk Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with
> services
>
> /JOIN #asterisk
>
>
>
>> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:26:46 +1200
>> From: li...@venturevoip.com
>> To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
>> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4
>> behind?
>>
>> On 29/04/11 1:16 PM, Ira wrote:
>> > Well, I've no idea how to do that. I can duplicate the problem every
>>
>> IRC is an online chat system like MSN or Skype except that it's more
>> like a mailing list - you can talk to lots of people at the same time.
>>
>> On Windows you can use a program like mIRC to connect to
>> irc.freenode.net or even a plugin in Firefox.
>>
>> Once you're connected to IRC you can join chat rooms.
>>
>> There are some like #asterisk for discussion about Asterisk and
>> #asterisk-bugs for discussion about Asterisk bugs.
>>
>> Post back here if you have any problems connecting.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Matt Riddell
>> ___
>>
>> http://www.venturevoip.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News)
>> http://www.venturevoip.com/exchange.php (Full ITSP Solution)
>> http://www.venturevoip.com/cc.php (Call Centre Solutions)
>>
>> --
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>> -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com --
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>> http://www.asterisk.org/hello
>>
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>> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>> http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
>
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[satish patel]

Hey Matt,

I have download irc linux base CLI client and connect to irc.freenode.net  i 
can see bunch or channels but i didn't find any #asterisk or #asterisk-bugs 
name. Am i looking at wrong place ?

*** #asterisk You're not on that channel
*** #asterisk Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be identified with services

/JOIN #asterisk



> Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2011 14:26:46 +1200
> From: li...@venturevoip.com
> To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?
> 
> On 29/04/11 1:16 PM, Ira wrote:
> > Well, I've no idea how to do that. I can duplicate the problem every
> 
> IRC is an online chat system like MSN or Skype except that it's more 
> like a mailing list - you can talk to lots of people at the same time.
> 
> On Windows you can use a program like mIRC to connect to 
> irc.freenode.net or even a plugin in Firefox.
> 
> Once you're connected to IRC you can join chat rooms.
> 
> There are some like #asterisk for discussion about Asterisk and 
> #asterisk-bugs for discussion about Asterisk bugs.
> 
> Post back here if you have any problems connecting.
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> 
> Matt Riddell
> ___
> 
> http://www.venturevoip.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News)
> http://www.venturevoip.com/exchange.php (Full ITSP Solution)
> http://www.venturevoip.com/cc.php (Call Centre Solutions)
> 
> --
> _
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Leif Madsen]

On 11-04-29 02:59 AM, Olle E. Johansson wrote:
> 
> 29 apr 2011 kl. 01.49 skrev Leif Madsen:
> 
>> Well the issue is that we currently have over 900 open issues in the Asterisk
>> project alone, and with only one primary bug marshal (myself) sometimes 
>> things
>> accidentally get closed if it looks like a configuration issue.
> 
> What's the reason that we only have one bug marshal? We used to ask people to 
> become bug marshals to help,
> but the last I heard you and Russell did not want community marshals. What 
> went wrong with that? Wasn't it any help?

Let me clarify, as it was not at all my intention to imply I was the *only* bug
marshal. Poor wording on my part.

There are certainly lots of people that help manage the bug tracker, and I'm
thankful for everyone who responds to issues, asking for the appropriate
information from reporters, and reviewing logs pointing out potential issues
which help developers. It's just I'm the main one handling work flow, making
sure the tracker doesn't get to the point it was when I started working on it
every day (the majority of issues were sitting in 'New' for many weeks).

Sorry if it was implied that I'm the only one working on the bug tracker,
because that is obviously not the case. I am grateful for any help people can
provide, and they are welcome to ask me what they can do to help. I don't
remember a discussion where I would persuade people from not helping :)

I've tried to make the process for moving issues forward as transparent as
possible. Just search Google with "site:lists.digium.com leif madsen bug
marshal" for a few posts about work flow. Additional information is here:
https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Policies+and+Procedures

Information for reporters is here:
https://wiki.asterisk.org/wiki/display/AST/Debugging

Thanks!
Leif.

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Administrator TOOTAI]

Le 29/04/2011 00:42, Russell Bryant a écrit :

- Original Message -

Sure. Please follow the 2 next stories:

- had a customer running 1.4.26 We upgraded to a new server and
installed 1.4.39, last version at this time. Bang: voicemail doesn't
work as it should, had to fallback to 1.4.26 Customer is still running
this version.
- have 1.4.41 and 1.6.16 which are no more able to use auth keys in
iax
since we update one server from 1.4 to 1.6

Now imagine that 1.4 stays at only security level. For first case we
have 2 options: upgrading for security reasons to last version but
then no more voicemail, or staying with 1.4.26. In the second case,
upgrading both servers to test with 1.8. If it's still not working, it was time
loose beside other problems.

If there are obvious regressions in major functionality such as voicemail, I'm more than 
happy to still consider making fixes for those problems during the "security 
maintenance" period.  It has to be pretty clear, though, and in this particular 
case, it is.

Can you point to the bug number please?  I want to make sure this voicemail 
problem is resolved as soon as possible.


https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=18998 for the voicemail
https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=18539 for the iax2 auth rsa

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Olle E. Johansson]

29 apr 2011 kl. 01.49 skrev Leif Madsen:

> Well the issue is that we currently have over 900 open issues in the Asterisk
> project alone, and with only one primary bug marshal (myself) sometimes things
> accidentally get closed if it looks like a configuration issue.

What's the reason that we only have one bug marshal? We used to ask people to 
become bug marshals to help,
but the last I heard you and Russell did not want community marshals. What went 
wrong with that? Wasn't it any help?

/O
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Olle E. Johansson]

>> 
> 
> I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the bug tracking system. 
>  It's more of a resource issue with many conflicting priorities.  Officially 
> letting off some of the pressure from older branches does help.  I would like 
> to be making faster progress through bug reports and patches.  I do have an 
> open position for another full time Asterisk developer at Digium in case 
> anyone is interested.  :-)
> 

I agree with Russell here, we have resource issues in the bug tracker but 
that's nothing that can be solved by another piece of software. If you have 
issues that is not handled timely, why don't you spend some time with other 
issues to help out? Surely there are issues where you can give a helping hand.

In answer to an earlier email that I felt was kind of attacking me I would like 
to point out that I am very happy and grateful about the resources that Digium 
put in the project, and continue to do. Just to clarify that this discussion 
was not about trying to paint Digium as a company as evil - which I was accused 
of. Digium is a very old business partner to my company and we've done great 
together. That doesn't mean we can't critizise each other or not want to 
discuss issues in the open.

To answer another attack, I have been contributing code and bug fixes to both 
1.8 and trunk. Most of my code exist in versions for trunk and 1.4. Customers 
pay me for 1.4, I forward port it to trunk when I have time and resources over. 
It's not a personal choice that most of my development work still is based on 
1.4. Of course I would love being doing development freely, creating great new 
code for the new release. There's a lot of stuff to do in Asterisk trunk, but 
no one out there that wants to put resources towards it in my direction. 
Asterisk trunk development is sadly too far away from my customers current 
business. The 1.6.x release schedule widened that gap and we need to discuss 
how to close the gap again. We do not need a large number of maintained 
releases between the long term support releases.

So far I haven't seen more than a few people that chimes in to this discussion 
saying we need to have 1.4 open, I haven't seen many people running 1.8 in 
production either. I have seen a lot of important issues being reported with 
1.8 which to me confirms that it's still not ready.

I have been working in commercial software companies for a long period in my 
life. A product manager that called for end-of-life of the 1.4 release at this 
stage would be out of a job very soon. Migrating a customer base from one 
version to another is very, very hard. It seems much harder in telecom software 
than in the rest of the software world. We need to continue to work on 1.8 and 
do a lot of marketing for upgrading as soon as we're comfortable with it and 
have resources to manage the bug reports that will come in. We really need to 
push and shove. What I can't do to my customers is forcing them to upgrade to 
something that doesn't work. Customer will simply stop paying me if I do.

I will not continue to push this issue, just realize that I will have to manage 
my own 1.4 branch fixing the issues that affect my customers, which will 
exclude management of a lot of modules that are not used at all in our 
installations. As I said before, I have no resources to support all of the code 
base for everyone. That's just life, painful as it is. In the ideal world, 
there would be resources to help everyone. Unfortunately, I still have to have 
money to bring home at the end of the day.

Thanks for a very good discussion. As usual, I learned a lot from it. Keep 
reporting issues so that all of us can move forward to new releases.

Feel free to contact me off-list if you want to discuss this further.

/O


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Matt Riddell]

On 29/04/11 2:15 PM, Alec Davis wrote:

Let me try to better describe the test senario that I found, and have been
commited to 1.4svn, 1.6.2svn 1.8svn and trunk.
All aspects need to be thrased out though.

Leave Phone-A 2 new messages, and for this example we only have 2 new
messages.

Now to create the problem - (gaps in the message sequence):


Ah, which explains why I'm not seeing that too - we do attach=yes, 
delete=yes


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Matt Riddell]

On 29/04/11 1:16 PM, Ira wrote:

Well, I've no idea how to do that. I can duplicate the problem every


IRC is an online chat system like MSN or Skype except that it's more 
like a mailing list - you can talk to lots of people at the same time.


On Windows you can use a program like mIRC to connect to 
irc.freenode.net or even a plugin in Firefox.


Once you're connected to IRC you can join chat rooms.

There are some like #asterisk for discussion about Asterisk and 
#asterisk-bugs for discussion about Asterisk bugs.


Post back here if you have any problems connecting.

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Alec Davis]

Let me try to better describe the test senario that I found, and have been
commited to 1.4svn, 1.6.2svn 1.8svn and trunk.
All aspects need to be thrased out though.

Leave Phone-A 2 new messages, and for this example we only have 2 new
messages.

Now to create the problem - (gaps in the message sequence):

1). From Phone-A, Enter voicemail and start listening to your 1st message.
2). From Phone-B ring Phone-A, which should go to voicemail
Leave a message. Do it again. So now we have new 2 messages, on top of
the initial 2, a total of 4.
3). At Phone-A delete the 1st message, and you now should have 1 left (we
don't know about the 2 new ones). DON'T hangup.
4). Hangup Phone A.
On closing mailbox the resequence only knew about 2 messages, not 4,
thus the message sequence became 0, 2 and 3.
5). DON'T open the mailbox yet, as the openmailbox resequence will fix it
up.

This is where the problems start - (further messages start to get lost
forever), only fixed if the user goes into their mailbox;

6). From Phone-A ring a test extension, Voicemail will do, but don't enter
your BOX number.
7). From Phone-B ring Phone-A, which goes to voicmail, leave a message, do
it again. We now have 2 new message, total should now be 5.
8). Hangup Phone-A

The result:
9). From Phone-A go into voicemail, we should have 5 new messages.
If there are 4, then we have lost some messages.
If there are 5, then it looks well, but still continue testing. This is
just one of many senarios.

Alec Davis

 

> -Original Message-
> From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com 
> [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of 
> Leif Madsen
> Sent: Friday, 29 April 2011 12:03 p.m.
> To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to 
> leave 1.4 behind?
> 
> On 11-04-28 07:09 PM, Alec Davis wrote:
> > Making an assumption here, I'm sure I cleared the remaining 
> > resequencing issues up in 1.4 SVN and 1.6.2 SVN.
> > https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=19032
> > 
> > The issues I uncovered and fixed were when a new voicemail is left, 
> > while a mailbox is open for review and the user deletes a message.
> 
> Can anyone who has this issue currently please test the 1.4 
> branch? Feedback would be extremely helpful in determining if 
> anything further needs to be done here. If so, then please 
> open a new issue and report here.
> 
> Leif.
> 
> 
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Ira]

At 04:49 PM 4/28/2011, you wrote:

Well the issue is that we currently have over 900 open issues in the Asterisk
project alone, and with only one primary bug marshal (myself) sometimes things
accidentally get closed if it looks like a configuration issue.

If anyone ever opens an issue they they feel is a bug and the issue is closed,
then the best forum is the #asterisk-bugs IRC channel. This allows 
you to speak
with the bug marshals and to work through some additional 
information that might

be required to help determine that something is truly an issue.


Well, I've no idea how to do that. I can duplicate the problem every 
time on my system in one step, but I have no idea how to suggest you 
test it or if it requires my particular configuration or Aastra 
phones.  I can do almost anything in Windows, most anything on a Mac 
and almost nothing on a Linux box except make and install Asterisk 
from source and edit the Asterisk configuration files.  You often 
make the assumption that just because I use Asterisk I know Linux. It 
would be nice, but I've made my living doing DOS and then Windows 
support since DOS 2.1 and for me, Linux is just something I need to 
run my Asterisk box.


I'm happy to help, but I need help to do it.

Ira 



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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Matt Riddell]

On 29/04/11 11:51 AM, Ernie Dunbar wrote:

On 29/04/11 5:06 AM, Ira wrote:

At 05:56 AM 4/28/2011, you wrote:

If I can install 1.8 and
know that I can "turn off" things to get to 1.4 "solidness", then I
don't
have a problem with this kettle of fish. BTW, where does 1.10 fit into
this
conversation?


Personally, 1.8 has never lasted more than 12 hours on my box without
dying and once I figured out how it dies, every beta and every release
will fail within moments if I followed the same very short test script.
I did put up a bug report on the problem once and was told within
moments it wasn't a bug, but I'm not smart enough to understand what I'm
supposed to do to troubleshoot and the same configuration has always run
on 1.2, 1.6 and 1.10 so from my perspective, it's a bug.


What's the URL to the bug you submitted?

I'm running 1.8 here 24/7 with no problems other than the ones that Alec
Davis fixed.  I've got it running in I think 4 installations and we're
not getting any core dumping or anything - obviously I'm only using a
subset of the full functionality and most modules are not included.


What features do you have disabled? It would be helpful to know this for
future 1.8 implementation, although right now we can't quite use it yet.


The opposite of what we're using :-)

We've been reworking our GUI software to work on embedded systems as 
well as larger so we use:


AGI for all outbound calling logic - our licensing code sets up routes 
for the customers (i.e. which providers they're using etc) and then they 
chose order (i.e. VoIP followed by Analogue etc).  If a destination 
can't be matched via an outbound route then the call is passed back to 
the dialplan.


Applications/Functions we use:

Macro, Dial, VoiceMail, VoiceMailMain, Goto, GotoIf, GotoIfTime, Hangup, 
UserEvent, Answer, Playback, Record


Some others:

* Pickup application with PICKUPMARK
* DB Functions
* We don't use Asterisk Realtime for these systems
* Call transfers etc are all done by the phones themselves
* DAHDI for timing - even if it's just DAHDI_dummy
* MeetMe (we haven't started using confbridge yet)
* Set application for variables
* hints
* SIPAddHeader or Set(__SIPADDHEADER=
* Outbound calling via IAX2, DAHDI and SIP - depending on the customer
* RFC2833 or Inband DTMF (depending on issues)

And that's it.

We don't use any of the imap voicemail stuff, don't usually use Google 
Talk or anything.  Don't usually use Jabber. Try to stay away from Local 
channels wherever possible.  Restart Asterisk in the middle of the night 
in case there are any memory leaks.


If we ever have any problems we try to track it down to the exact 
revision that caused the problem, read the commit and try and submit a 
bug entry with as much detail as possible.  It's pretty unusual for you 
to be the only person experiencing a bug so normally if you come across 
something you'll see other people with the same problem.  If you don't 
it's because you're doing something different to the majority of users 
or it's a very new bug.  So you first look at what you're doing that's 
different (we use chan_lcr occasionally as BRI isn't working for us with 
DAHDI - LCR has caused some issues).  If it is caused by doing something 
in a way that is different then see if you can do it how most people 
would.  If it still causes an issue, either fix it or submit a ticket. 
You can usually work around most things.


For example we had a problem last week where an incoming call to a DDI 
had a 302 redirect from the phone to another number - i.e. the person 
was out of the office so they redirected to their cell.  When the call 
went back to Asterisk it used the local channel and made an outbound 
call to the cellphone.  After 2 seconds of ringing it would hangup and 
head back to the desk phone - that would redirect it back to the 
cellphone etc etc.


It turned out that for whatever reason the LCR channel wasn't happy with 
the redirection - when tested with the incoming call coming from IAX 
instead of LCR it worked fine.  We then thought that maybe it was 
because the LCR channel hadn't been answered.  We added an Answer() 
before sending the call to the phone and it resolved the problem.


This was not a crash and was caused by the fact that we were doing 
something that most people aren't (using chan_lcr in Asterisk 1.8).  If 
everyone's calls did this when they saw a 302 redirect it certainly 
would have shown up on the issue tracker.


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Leif Madsen]

On 11-04-28 07:09 PM, Alec Davis wrote:
> Making an assumption here, I'm sure I cleared the remaining resequencing
> issues up in 1.4 SVN and 1.6.2 SVN.
> https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=19032
> 
> The issues I uncovered and fixed were when a new voicemail is left, while a
> mailbox is open for review and the user deletes a message.

Can anyone who has this issue currently please test the 1.4 branch? Feedback
would be extremely helpful in determining if anything further needs to be done
here. If so, then please open a new issue and report here.

Leif.


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Ernie Dunbar]

> On 29/04/11 5:06 AM, Ira wrote:
>> At 05:56 AM 4/28/2011, you wrote:
>>> If I can install 1.8 and
>>> know that I can "turn off" things to get to 1.4 "solidness", then I
>>> don't
>>> have a problem with this kettle of fish. BTW, where does 1.10 fit into
>>> this
>>> conversation?
>>
>> Personally, 1.8 has never lasted more than 12 hours on my box without
>> dying and once I figured out how it dies, every beta and every release
>> will fail within moments if I followed the same very short test script.
>> I did put up a bug report on the problem once and was told within
>> moments it wasn't a bug, but I'm not smart enough to understand what I'm
>> supposed to do to troubleshoot and the same configuration has always run
>> on 1.2, 1.6 and 1.10 so from my perspective, it's a bug.
>
> What's the URL to the bug you submitted?
>
> I'm running 1.8 here 24/7 with no problems other than the ones that Alec
> Davis fixed.  I've got it running in I think 4 installations and we're
> not getting any core dumping or anything - obviously I'm only using a
> subset of the full functionality and most modules are not included.

What features do you have disabled? It would be helpful to know this for
future 1.8 implementation, although right now we can't quite use it yet.


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Leif Madsen]

On 11-04-28 07:02 PM, Ira wrote:
> At 03:48 PM 4/28/2011, you wrote:
> OK, maybe not, but if I thought it was a bug and you discover it was a bug and
> fix it, than who was it who decided it wasn't a bug 15 minutes after I put it 
> in
> the bug tracker and why did that person have that much power?  Look, I know
> things take time to fix and test, I have no problem with that and I know users
> report things that aren't bugs as bugs.  I develop software and my users do 
> all
> those annoying things too, but I can't slap them down like that if I expect 
> them
> to continue being customers. And I know the people who do this are volunteers,
> but my software is free, so I'm a volunteer too.

Well the issue is that we currently have over 900 open issues in the Asterisk
project alone, and with only one primary bug marshal (myself) sometimes things
accidentally get closed if it looks like a configuration issue.

If anyone ever opens an issue they they feel is a bug and the issue is closed,
then the best forum is the #asterisk-bugs IRC channel. This allows you to speak
with the bug marshals and to work through some additional information that might
be required to help determine that something is truly an issue.

Leif.

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Alec Davis]

Making an assumption here, I'm sure I cleared the remaining resequencing
issues up in 1.4 SVN and 1.6.2 SVN.
https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=19032

The issues I uncovered and fixed were when a new voicemail is left, while a
mailbox is open for review and the user deletes a message.

Alec


> -Original Message-
> From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com 
> [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of 
> Russell Bryant
> Sent: Friday, 29 April 2011 10:42 a.m.
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to 
> leave 1.4 behind?
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> > Sure. Please follow the 2 next stories:
> > 
> > - had a customer running 1.4.26 We upgraded to a new server and 
> > installed 1.4.39, last version at this time. Bang: 
> voicemail doesn't 
> > work as it should, had to fallback to 1.4.26 Customer is 
> still running 
> > this version.
> > - have 1.4.41 and 1.6.16 which are no more able to use auth keys in 
> > iax since we update one server from 1.4 to 1.6
> > 
> > Now imagine that 1.4 stays at only security level. For 
> first case we 
> > have 2 options: upgrading for security reasons to last version but 
> > then no more voicemail, or staying with 1.4.26. In the second case, 
> > upgrading both servers to test with 1.8. If it's still not 
> working, it 
> > was time loose beside other problems.
> 
> If there are obvious regressions in major functionality such 
> as voicemail, I'm more than happy to still consider making 
> fixes for those problems during the "security maintenance" 
> period.  It has to be pretty clear, though, and in this 
> particular case, it is.
> 
> Can you point to the bug number please?  I want to make sure 
> this voicemail problem is resolved as soon as possible.
> 
> --
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> Digium, Inc.   |   Engineering Manager, Open Source Software
> 445 Jan Davis Drive NW- Huntsville, AL 35806  -  USA
> www.digium.com  -=-  www.asterisk.org -=- blogs.asterisk.org
> 
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Paul Belanger]

On 11-04-28 06:39 PM, Ira wrote:

I would comment that I've been complaining about this since RC1 or 2 and
if you just fixed it in 2 hours that there is something seriously wrong
with the bug tracking system.  I mean, I reported it a long time ago and
while it was probably not the best bug report ever, I would have been
more than willing to do almost anything to help fix it.

>
No, I don't believe the issue tracker is seriously broken but understand 
there are over 920 open issues at the moment. To be honest, I only 
looked at the code because of a personal interest to learn more about 
chan_sip.c and because of the power outages happening at Digium.


jsmith in #asterisk-dev summed it up best a few months ago:

It's open source software -- so if you want a change made, you have 
three basic choices:

   1) Scratch your own itch
   2) Pay someone else to scratch your itch
   3) Convince someone else that it's their itch as well, and be 
patient until they scratch your itch



I know what beta
tester means, I've beta tested disk defraggers and disk caches and lost
everything when they had the wrong bug and I know it can take a few
tries to both fix the bug and for someone to help me identify it so they
have an idea of where to look. Personally I'd just assumed that 1.8 was
going to stay broken as no one seemed to care and was really happy when
trunk worked as that meant I could move on.

>
+1 for testers.  Sometimes the majority of the work is just reproducing 
the issue. And I said this before, if you can reproduce the issue and 
automate it, I'll take the required steps to help merge the test into 
the testsuite.


--
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Ira]

At 03:48 PM 4/28/2011, you wrote:


- Original Message -
> I would comment that I've been complaining about this since RC1 or 2
> and if you just fixed it in 2 hours that there is something seriously
> wrong with the bug tracking system. I mean, I reported it a long
> time ago and while it was probably not the best bug report ever, I
> would have been more than willing to do almost anything to help fix
> it. I know what beta tester means, I've beta tested disk defraggers

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the bug 
tracking system.  It's more of a resource issue with many 
conflicting priorities.  Officially letting off some of the pressure 
from older branches does help.  I would like to be making faster 
progress through bug reports and patches.  I do have an open 
position for another full time Asterisk developer at Digium in case 
anyone is interested.  :-)


OK, maybe not, but if I thought it was a bug and you discover it was 
a bug and fix it, than who was it who decided it wasn't a bug 15 
minutes after I put it in the bug tracker and why did that person 
have that much power?  Look, I know things take time to fix and test, 
I have no problem with that and I know users report things that 
aren't bugs as bugs.  I develop software and my users do all those 
annoying things too, but I can't slap them down like that if I expect 
them to continue being customers. And I know the people who do this 
are volunteers, but my software is free, so I'm a volunteer too.


Look, I'm not complaining, I'm happy with trunk and I don't care any 
more if 1.8 ever works. If it was up to me I'd say abandon it and 
move on, but it's not up to me. I only brought it up again because of 
the thread about the usability of 1.8.


Asterisk made an amazing change in my life and solved problems in 
ways I never imagined possible before accidently discovering it 5 years ago.


If nothing else, the ability to not have any phone but my wife's ring 
when the annoying members of her family call is worth every penny I 
spent on the hardware.


Ira 



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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Russell Bryant]

- Original Message -
> I would comment that I've been complaining about this since RC1 or 2
> and if you just fixed it in 2 hours that there is something seriously
> wrong with the bug tracking system. I mean, I reported it a long
> time ago and while it was probably not the best bug report ever, I
> would have been more than willing to do almost anything to help fix
> it. I know what beta tester means, I've beta tested disk defraggers
> and disk caches and lost everything when they had the wrong bug and I
> know it can take a few tries to both fix the bug and for someone to
> help me identify it so they have an idea of where to look. Personally
> I'd just assumed that 1.8 was going to stay broken as no one seemed
> to care and was really happy when trunk worked as that meant I could
> move on. I like the bleeding edge and will always run the current
> beta on my small system unless I find a problem. I know it's
> dangerous, but it gives me the best chance of influencing where the
> product is going. Not much chance with this, but old habits die hard.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with the bug tracking system.  
It's more of a resource issue with many conflicting priorities.  Officially 
letting off some of the pressure from older branches does help.  I would like 
to be making faster progress through bug reports and patches.  I do have an 
open position for another full time Asterisk developer at Digium in case anyone 
is interested.  :-)

-- 
Russell Bryant
Digium, Inc.   |   Engineering Manager, Open Source Software
445 Jan Davis Drive NW- Huntsville, AL 35806  -  USA
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Matt Riddell]

On 29/04/11 10:10 AM, Alec Davis wrote:

Thanks Matt.

There seems to be an unresolved deadlock since the birth of 1.8.
Using the most basic feature of a PBX, try to pickup some elses ringing
extension - DEADLOCK.

But I'm on to it, https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=18654 and it's
more uptodate review https://reviewboard.asterisk.org/r/1185/


Yeah, not sure why that one's not affecting me.

I'm using the Set(_PICKUPMARK=1) thingy with a little bit of logic from 
DB functions and customers don't seem to be hitting it.


I'm not using the *8 thing though.

Yeah, just checked one system and they're definitely using it:

/var/log/asterisk/cdr-custom# grep Pickup Master.csv |wc -L
196

196 times since I upgrade them on the 11th of February.

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Matt Riddell
___

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Russell Bryant]

- Original Message -
> Thanks Matt.
> 
> There seems to be an unresolved deadlock since the birth of 1.8.
> Using the most basic feature of a PBX, try to pickup some elses
> ringing
> extension - DEADLOCK.
> 
> But I'm on to it, https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=18654 and
> it's
> more uptodate review https://reviewboard.asterisk.org/r/1185/

Thanks, Alec.  I have added this to the roadmap for the next 1.8 update.  I'll 
make sure it gets resolved before then.

-- 
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Russell Bryant]

- Original Message -
> Sure. Please follow the 2 next stories:
> 
> - had a customer running 1.4.26 We upgraded to a new server and
> installed 1.4.39, last version at this time. Bang: voicemail doesn't
> work as it should, had to fallback to 1.4.26 Customer is still running
> this version.
> - have 1.4.41 and 1.6.16 which are no more able to use auth keys in
> iax
> since we update one server from 1.4 to 1.6
> 
> Now imagine that 1.4 stays at only security level. For first case we
> have 2 options: upgrading for security reasons to last version but
> then no more voicemail, or staying with 1.4.26. In the second case,
> upgrading both servers to test with 1.8. If it's still not working, it was 
> time
> loose beside other problems.

If there are obvious regressions in major functionality such as voicemail, I'm 
more than happy to still consider making fixes for those problems during the 
"security maintenance" period.  It has to be pretty clear, though, and in this 
particular case, it is.

Can you point to the bug number please?  I want to make sure this voicemail 
problem is resolved as soon as possible.

-- 
Russell Bryant
Digium, Inc.   |   Engineering Manager, Open Source Software
445 Jan Davis Drive NW- Huntsville, AL 35806  -  USA
www.digium.com  -=-  www.asterisk.org -=- blogs.asterisk.org

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Ira]

At 03:22 PM 4/28/2011, you wrote:

On 11-04-28 04:35 PM, Ira wrote:

If you want to look at this with my help, an email off-list will get
your use of me and my Asterisk box.
I just posted a patch on the issue tracker, I'll need to get it 
reviewed to see if this is the best approach.



I would comment that I've been complaining about this since RC1 or 2 
and if you just fixed it in 2 hours that there is something seriously 
wrong with the bug tracking system.  I mean, I reported it a long 
time ago and while it was probably not the best bug report ever, I 
would have been more than willing to do almost anything to help fix 
it. I know what beta tester means, I've beta tested disk defraggers 
and disk caches and lost everything when they had the wrong bug and I 
know it can take a few tries to both fix the bug and for someone to 
help me identify it so they have an idea of where to look. Personally 
I'd just assumed that 1.8 was going to stay broken as no one seemed 
to care and was really happy when trunk worked as that meant I could 
move on. I like the bleeding edge and will always run the current 
beta on my small system unless I find a problem. I know it's 
dangerous, but it gives me the best chance of influencing where the 
product is going. Not much chance with this, but old habits die hard.


And thanks for looking at this.  The offer to help stands. Once UPS 
picks up in the afternoon, 3:30PM PST, I'm happy to try anything for you.


Ira


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Paul Belanger]

On 11-04-28 04:35 PM, Ira wrote:

If you want to look at this with my help, an email off-list will get
your use of me and my Asterisk box.

I just posted a patch on the issue tracker, I'll need to get it reviewed 
to see if this is the best approach.


--
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Digium, Inc. | Software Developer
twitter: pabelanger | IRC: pabelanger (Freenode)
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Alec Davis]

Thanks Matt.

There seems to be an unresolved deadlock since the birth of 1.8.
Using the most basic feature of a PBX, try to pickup some elses ringing
extension - DEADLOCK.

But I'm on to it, https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=18654 and it's
more uptodate review https://reviewboard.asterisk.org/r/1185/

Alec Davis


> -Original Message-
> From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com 
> [mailto:asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of 
> Matt Riddell
> Sent: Friday, 29 April 2011 9:58 a.m.
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to 
> leave 1.4 behind?
> 
> On 29/04/11 5:06 AM, Ira wrote:
> > At 05:56 AM 4/28/2011, you wrote:
> >> If I can install 1.8 and
> >> know that I can "turn off" things to get to 1.4 
> "solidness", then I 
> >> don't have a problem with this kettle of fish. BTW, where 
> does 1.10 
> >> fit into this conversation?
> >
> > Personally, 1.8 has never lasted more than 12 hours on my 
> box without 
> > dying and once I figured out how it dies, every beta and 
> every release 
> > will fail within moments if I followed the same very short 
> test script.
> > I did put up a bug report on the problem once and was told within 
> > moments it wasn't a bug, but I'm not smart enough to 
> understand what 
> > I'm supposed to do to troubleshoot and the same configuration has 
> > always run on 1.2, 1.6 and 1.10 so from my perspective, it's a bug.
> 
> What's the URL to the bug you submitted?
> 
> I'm running 1.8 here 24/7 with no problems other than the 
> ones that Alec Davis fixed.  I've got it running in I think 4 
> installations and we're not getting any core dumping or 
> anything - obviously I'm only using a subset of the full 
> functionality and most modules are not included.
> 
> --
> Cheers,
> 
> Matt Riddell
> ___
> 
> http://www.venturevoip.com/news.php (Daily Asterisk News) 
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> 
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Matt Riddell]

On 29/04/11 5:06 AM, Ira wrote:

At 05:56 AM 4/28/2011, you wrote:

If I can install 1.8 and
know that I can "turn off" things to get to 1.4 "solidness", then I don't
have a problem with this kettle of fish. BTW, where does 1.10 fit into
this
conversation?


Personally, 1.8 has never lasted more than 12 hours on my box without
dying and once I figured out how it dies, every beta and every release
will fail within moments if I followed the same very short test script.
I did put up a bug report on the problem once and was told within
moments it wasn't a bug, but I'm not smart enough to understand what I'm
supposed to do to troubleshoot and the same configuration has always run
on 1.2, 1.6 and 1.10 so from my perspective, it's a bug.


What's the URL to the bug you submitted?

I'm running 1.8 here 24/7 with no problems other than the ones that Alec 
Davis fixed.  I've got it running in I think 4 installations and we're 
not getting any core dumping or anything - obviously I'm only using a 
subset of the full functionality and most modules are not included.


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___

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Danny Nicholas]

> Hope that this both scenario gives you a new vision ;-) and why I tell
> that bugs and regressions should be taken in account at the same level
> as security.
> 
> --
> Daniel
[Danny Nicholas] 
My .02 - Digium is going to do what is best for them (without them we'd be
sunk), but if you aren't taking care of bugs and regressions, security isn't
going to matter because you won't get that far.



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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Administrator TOOTAI]

Le 28/04/2011 22:43, Leif Madsen a écrit :

On 11-04-28 04:33 PM, Administrator TOOTAI wrote:

Le 28/04/2011 21:47, Leif Madsen a écrit :

On 11-04-28 12:04 PM, Administrator TOOTAI wrote:

Ok, so why not stay with asterisk 1.4 security *and* bug/regression fixes for
few weeks/monthes till 1.8 reaches the level that the community accept to switch
to 1.8

What is the guide here? What is the "level that the community" accepts?
Unfortunately that is a statement that is impossible to measure quantitatively.
The answer will always be, "We're not ready!"

Don't think so, analyze the answers to this discussion -thanks Ole ;-)-: till
1.8 is not at the feature level and stability of 1.4, people like me will not
move to 1.8 Measure is easy :-)

But that's what I don't get. No one is *forcing* you to move to 1.8 *right now*.
The code base for 1.4 isn't going anywhere. Anyone is able to keep deploying 1.4
(or 1.2, or 1.0, or 0.9 for that matter) to their hearts content.


Sure. Please follow the 2 next stories:

- had a customer running 1.4.26 We upgraded to a new server and 
installed 1.4.39, last version at this time. Bang: voicemail doesn't 
work as it should, had to fallback to 1.4.26 Customer is still running 
this version.
- have 1.4.41 and 1.6.16 which are no more able to use auth keys in iax 
since we update one server from 1.4 to 1.6


Now imagine that 1.4 stays at only security level. For first case we 
have 2 options: upgrading for security reasons to last version but then 
no more voicemail, or staying with 1.4.26. In the second case, upgrading 
both servers to test with 1.8. If it's still not working, it was time 
loose beside other problems.


Yes, we have servers for testing, but really, who would think that such 
2 problems araised with an 1.4 stable version? Same was few versions 
before (1.4.20~1.4.28 if I good remember) with attempted call transfer: 
was working on one version, stop to next one, worked again aso. Even in 
a test environment you can't simulate all setups.


Hope that this both scenario gives you a new vision ;-) and why I tell 
that bugs and regressions should be taken in account at the same level 
as security.


--
Daniel

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Leif Madsen]

On 11-04-28 04:33 PM, Administrator TOOTAI wrote:
> Le 28/04/2011 21:47, Leif Madsen a écrit :
>> On 11-04-28 12:04 PM, Administrator TOOTAI wrote:
>>> Ok, so why not stay with asterisk 1.4 security *and* bug/regression fixes 
>>> for
>>> few weeks/monthes till 1.8 reaches the level that the community accept to 
>>> switch
>>> to 1.8
>> What is the guide here? What is the "level that the community" accepts?
>> Unfortunately that is a statement that is impossible to measure 
>> quantitatively.
>> The answer will always be, "We're not ready!"
> 
> Don't think so, analyze the answers to this discussion -thanks Ole ;-)-: till
> 1.8 is not at the feature level and stability of 1.4, people like me will not
> move to 1.8 Measure is easy :-)

But that's what I don't get. No one is *forcing* you to move to 1.8 *right now*.
The code base for 1.4 isn't going anywhere. Anyone is able to keep deploying 1.4
(or 1.2, or 1.0, or 0.9 for that matter) to their hearts content.

Leif.

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Ira]

At 10:43 AM 4/28/2011, you wrote:

On 11-04-28 01:06 PM, Ira wrote:

At 05:56 AM 4/28/2011, you wrote:

If I can install 1.8 and
know that I can "turn off" things to get to 1.4 "solidness", then I don't
have a problem with this kettle of fish. BTW, where does 1.10 fit into
this
conversation?


Personally, 1.8 has never lasted more than 12 hours on my box without
dying and once I figured out how it dies, every beta and every release
will fail within moments if I followed the same very short test script.
I did put up a bug report on the problem once and was told within
moments it wasn't a bug, but I'm not smart enough to understand what I'm
supposed to do to troubleshoot and the same configuration has always run
on 1.2, 1.6 and 1.10 so from my perspective, it's a bug.
What is the issue number.  Additionally, if you can reproduce this 
with a simple test script, I recommend creating a test for the 
testsuite and posting in on reviewboard.  I'll even talk the time to 
triage and merge the test.



The test is this:

Pick up one of my 3 Aastra sip phones.
Dial 11 to get dial tone on a POTS line connected to a TDM04
Dial the POTS line connected to port 2 on that same TDM04
Call goes directly to voice mail and I get a bunch of SIP 
re-transmission errors.


Then I get told to read the SIP retransmission document which might 
as well be written in Greek for all the good it does me.
I've no clue what the bug report number is, it was back around RC1 or 
2.  If you search the archives for my email you will probably find my 
posts about this. I don't post much so they should stand out.


If you want to look at this with my help, an email off-list will get 
your use of me and my Asterisk box.


Ira


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Administrator TOOTAI]

Le 28/04/2011 21:47, Leif Madsen a écrit :

On 11-04-28 12:04 PM, Administrator TOOTAI wrote:

Ok, so why not stay with asterisk 1.4 security *and* bug/regression fixes for
few weeks/monthes till 1.8 reaches the level that the community accept to switch
to 1.8

What is the guide here? What is the "level that the community" accepts?
Unfortunately that is a statement that is impossible to measure quantitatively.
The answer will always be, "We're not ready!"


Don't think so, analyze the answers to this discussion -thanks Ole ;-)-: 
till 1.8 is not at the feature level and stability of 1.4, people like 
me will not move to 1.8 Measure is easy :-)



Having to focus on issues on both the 1.4 and 1.8 branches simultaneously
distracts from the goal of making 1.8 stable (which in my several deployments
recently, it seems to be).


Again, I think that maintaining 1.4 on his today level is ok *if and 
only if* bugs/regression are taking in account, not only security.



[...]

With focus being directed to 1.8, the issues that may be blocking you from
having a successful migration to, or deployment of, Asterisk 1.8 will get fixed
that much sooner.


In production you can't use something which will be "fixed sooner". It 
has to work straight on, at least when you upgrade from a previous 
version. Customer doesn't care if the new version is more up to date and 
has new features if in the mean time they don't have features that they 
had before.



If the community won't, or can't, step up to maintain a community based branch
which has very few changes being made to it, then I'm not sure it is fair to
expect Digium to do that.


That's one point for you: community seems to say "we want that 1.4 still 
lives" but no one [want|doesn't have the knowledge] to participate on 
maintaining the community branch.


--
Daniel

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Leif Madsen]

On 11-04-28 12:04 PM, Administrator TOOTAI wrote:
> Ok, so why not stay with asterisk 1.4 security *and* bug/regression fixes for
> few weeks/monthes till 1.8 reaches the level that the community accept to 
> switch
> to 1.8

What is the guide here? What is the "level that the community" accepts?
Unfortunately that is a statement that is impossible to measure quantitatively.
The answer will always be, "We're not ready!"

Having to focus on issues on both the 1.4 and 1.8 branches simultaneously
distracts from the goal of making 1.8 stable (which in my several deployments
recently, it seems to be).

I've also seen very few issues being committed to 1.4 for quite some time, which
seems to tell me 1.4 is stable for most deployments. It's not like there has
been a flurry of activity around 1.4 and all of a sudden it's being cut off. In
my estimation the number of commits to 1.4 going from "a few" to "none" is not a
significant direction change.

Asterisk 1.4 isn't going away. The code base won't stop working on your system
-- it will continue happily plugging away as it always has. The code will
continue to be available for deployments.

With focus being directed to 1.8, the issues that may be blocking you from
having a successful migration to, or deployment of, Asterisk 1.8 will get fixed
that much sooner.

If the community won't, or can't, step up to maintain a community based branch
which has very few changes being made to it, then I'm not sure it is fair to
expect Digium to do that.

Leif.


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[satish patel]

Hey Paul,

We have migrate asterisk from 1.2 to 1.8 in production and we have this issue i 
wouldn't say its critical but just thought point you out. This is open since 
last long time and no one respond :( 

https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=18514

Now i am trying 1.10 and let see whether its going to fix or not. 

-Satish 


> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 13:43:15 -0400
> From: pabelan...@digium.com
> To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?
> 
> On 11-04-28 01:06 PM, Ira wrote:
> > At 05:56 AM 4/28/2011, you wrote:
> >> If I can install 1.8 and
> >> know that I can "turn off" things to get to 1.4 "solidness", then I don't
> >> have a problem with this kettle of fish. BTW, where does 1.10 fit into
> >> this
> >> conversation?
> >
> > Personally, 1.8 has never lasted more than 12 hours on my box without
> > dying and once I figured out how it dies, every beta and every release
> > will fail within moments if I followed the same very short test script.
> > I did put up a bug report on the problem once and was told within
> > moments it wasn't a bug, but I'm not smart enough to understand what I'm
> > supposed to do to troubleshoot and the same configuration has always run
> > on 1.2, 1.6 and 1.10 so from my perspective, it's a bug.
> >
> What is the issue number.  Additionally, if you can reproduce this with 
> a simple test script, I recommend creating a test for the testsuite and 
> posting in on reviewboard.  I'll even talk the time to triage and merge 
> the test.
> 
> -- 
> Paul Belanger
> Digium, Inc. | Software Developer
> twitter: pabelanger | IRC: pabelanger (Freenode)
> Check us out at: http://digium.com & http://asterisk.org
> 
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Paul Belanger]

On 11-04-28 01:06 PM, Ira wrote:

At 05:56 AM 4/28/2011, you wrote:

If I can install 1.8 and
know that I can "turn off" things to get to 1.4 "solidness", then I don't
have a problem with this kettle of fish. BTW, where does 1.10 fit into
this
conversation?


Personally, 1.8 has never lasted more than 12 hours on my box without
dying and once I figured out how it dies, every beta and every release
will fail within moments if I followed the same very short test script.
I did put up a bug report on the problem once and was told within
moments it wasn't a bug, but I'm not smart enough to understand what I'm
supposed to do to troubleshoot and the same configuration has always run
on 1.2, 1.6 and 1.10 so from my perspective, it's a bug.

What is the issue number.  Additionally, if you can reproduce this with 
a simple test script, I recommend creating a test for the testsuite and 
posting in on reviewboard.  I'll even talk the time to triage and merge 
the test.


--
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Digium, Inc. | Software Developer
twitter: pabelanger | IRC: pabelanger (Freenode)
Check us out at: http://digium.com & http://asterisk.org

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Andrew Latham]

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 1:34 PM, satish patel  wrote:
> Where did you download asterisk 1.10 or trunk ? I search and found nothing.
> could your point me there?
>
> -S

svn co http://svn.asterisk.org/svn/asterisk/trunk /usr/src/asterisk_trunk


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[satish patel]

Where did you download asterisk 1.10 or trunk ? I search and found nothing. 
could your point me there?

-S

> Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2011 10:06:18 -0700
> To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com
> From: i...@extrasensory.com
> Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?
> 
> At 05:56 AM 4/28/2011, you wrote:
> >If I can install 1.8 and
> >know that I can "turn off" things to get to 1.4 "solidness", then I don't
> >have a problem with this kettle of fish.  BTW, where does 1.10 fit into this
> >conversation?
> 
> Personally, 1.8 has never lasted more than 12 hours on my box without 
> dying and once I figured out how it dies, every beta and every 
> release will fail within moments if I followed the same very short 
> test script. I did put up a bug report on the problem once and was 
> told within moments it wasn't a bug, but I'm not smart enough to 
> understand what I'm supposed to do to troubleshoot and the same 
> configuration has always run on 1.2, 1.6 and 1.10 so from my 
> perspective, it's a bug.
> 
> 1.10 or trunk as I guess it's currently known has been running on my 
> production box for 2 weeks with not one hiccup.
> 
> Ira 
> 
> 
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Ira]

At 05:56 AM 4/28/2011, you wrote:

If I can install 1.8 and
know that I can "turn off" things to get to 1.4 "solidness", then I don't
have a problem with this kettle of fish.  BTW, where does 1.10 fit into this
conversation?


Personally, 1.8 has never lasted more than 12 hours on my box without 
dying and once I figured out how it dies, every beta and every 
release will fail within moments if I followed the same very short 
test script. I did put up a bug report on the problem once and was 
told within moments it wasn't a bug, but I'm not smart enough to 
understand what I'm supposed to do to troubleshoot and the same 
configuration has always run on 1.2, 1.6 and 1.10 so from my 
perspective, it's a bug.


1.10 or trunk as I guess it's currently known has been running on my 
production box for 2 weeks with not one hiccup.


Ira 



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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Administrator TOOTAI]

Le 28/04/2011 16:53, Russell Bryant a écrit :

- Original Message -

PS. Please don't start a discussion about 1.8 quality in this thread,
that's a separate issue. I just want to know what you think about
closing 1.4 support now. If you want to discuss 1.8 quality, start a
new thread. Thanks.

I don't think it's a separate issue at all.  I would like to see discussion of 
exactly which issues are preventing users from using Asterisk 1.8.  We're 
trying to shift focus to those issues and get them resolved as quickly and as 
efficiently as we can so that we can all move forward.


Let's see it from another angle: we today are mainly using 1.4 and 1.6.2 
In the last month with faced those regressions, first still not solved:


https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=18539
https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=18998

Do you think we're ready to switch to 1.8 if 1.4/1.6 still have such 
behavior?


As I told in previous answer, we started 1.4 in production very early 
and had lots of troubles, we don't want to face the same over activity 
with 1.8



Resources are limited.

This I understand

What is the best use of our time to help ensure the best future?  Where do we 
want to see the project in the next 6 months to a year?  A primary focus on 
further solidifying Asterisk 1.8 is what gets us there in my mind.


Agree

Asterisk 1.4 was released 4.5 years ago.  It mostly "just works", and I fully 
expect many to keep using it until they see a need to migrate.  This process has been 
likened to when the community moved from Asterisk 1.2 to 1.4.  Asterisk 1.8 has been much 
more stable out of the gate than 1.4, due to many things we have done over the years to 
increase quality, including:

[...]

Ok, so why not stay with asterisk 1.4 security *and* bug/regression 
fixes for few weeks/monthes till 1.8 reaches the level that the 
community accept to switch to 1.8


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Russell Bryant]

- Original Message -
> On Apr 28, 2011, at 10:21 AM, Russell Bryant wrote:
> 
> >> For us the biggest issue is multi-tenant parking not working. We've
> >> really given up testing anything beyond that point because without
> >> that feature there really isn't any way we could use it.
> >
> > Broken as compared to 1.6.2? I ask since that feature wasn't in 1.4.
> 
> As compared to 1.6.1.x. We were using it precisely because we had to
> have multi-tenant parking.
> 
> > Can you point to a bug report? I'd like to understand better what's
> > not working.
> 
> https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=18553
> 
> Basically for several versions of 1.6.2.x and all 1.8.x that we've
> tested, when you park a call it gets parked in the first parking lot
> regardless of what context the call is in when it is parked.

Thanks!  I will take a look at this one and see what we can do.

-- 
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Digium, Inc.   |   Engineering Manager, Open Source Software
445 Jan Davis Drive NW- Huntsville, AL 35806  -  USA
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Chris Owen]

On Apr 28, 2011, at 10:21 AM, Russell Bryant wrote:

>> For us the biggest issue is multi-tenant parking not working. We've
>> really given up testing anything beyond that point because without
>> that feature there really isn't any way we could use it.
> 
> Broken as compared to 1.6.2?  I ask since that feature wasn't in 1.4.

As compared to 1.6.1.x.   We were using it precisely because we had to have 
multi-tenant parking.

> Can you point to a bug report?  I'd like to understand better what's not 
> working.

https://issues.asterisk.org/view.php?id=18553

Basically for several versions of 1.6.2.x and all 1.8.x that we've tested, when 
you park a call it gets parked in the first parking lot regardless of what 
context the call is in when it is parked.

Chris

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Russell Bryant]

- Original Message -
> On Apr 28, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Russell Bryant wrote:
> 
> > I don't think it's a separate issue at all. I would like to see
> > discussion of exactly which issues are preventing users from using
> > Asterisk 1.8. We're trying to shift focus to those issues and get
> > them resolved as quickly and as efficiently as we can so that we can
> > all move forward.
> 
> For us the biggest issue is multi-tenant parking not working. We've
> really given up testing anything beyond that point because without
> that feature there really isn't any way we could use it.

Broken as compared to 1.6.2?  I ask since that feature wasn't in 1.4.

Can you point to a bug report?  I'd like to understand better what's not 
working.

-- 
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Digium, Inc.   |   Engineering Manager, Open Source Software
445 Jan Davis Drive NW- Huntsville, AL 35806  -  USA
www.digium.com  -=-  www.asterisk.org -=- blogs.asterisk.org

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Chris Owen]

On Apr 28, 2011, at 9:53 AM, Russell Bryant wrote:

> I don't think it's a separate issue at all.  I would like to see discussion 
> of exactly which issues are preventing users from using Asterisk 1.8.  We're 
> trying to shift focus to those issues and get them resolved as quickly and as 
> efficiently as we can so that we can all move forward.

For us the biggest issue is multi-tenant parking not working.   We've really 
given up testing anything beyond that point because without that feature there 
really isn't any way we could use it.

Chris

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Russell Bryant]

- Original Message -
> PS. Please don't start a discussion about 1.8 quality in this thread,
> that's a separate issue. I just want to know what you think about
> closing 1.4 support now. If you want to discuss 1.8 quality, start a
> new thread. Thanks.

I don't think it's a separate issue at all.  I would like to see discussion of 
exactly which issues are preventing users from using Asterisk 1.8.  We're 
trying to shift focus to those issues and get them resolved as quickly and as 
efficiently as we can so that we can all move forward.

Resources are limited.  What is the best use of our time to help ensure the 
best future?  Where do we want to see the project in the next 6 months to a 
year?  A primary focus on further solidifying Asterisk 1.8 is what gets us 
there in my mind.

Asterisk 1.4 was released 4.5 years ago.  It mostly "just works", and I fully 
expect many to keep using it until they see a need to migrate.  This process 
has been likened to when the community moved from Asterisk 1.2 to 1.4.  
Asterisk 1.8 has been much more stable out of the gate than 1.4, due to many 
things we have done over the years to increase quality, including:

1) We have adopted peer code reviews as common practice for all non-trivial 
changes going into Asterisk.  This alone has _greatly_ increased the quality of 
the code going in.  It is rare that a patch goes up for review where someone 
doesn't point out some sort of problem.  These problems are found and fixed 
_much_ faster in the up front review process than if it had been many months 
later when someone encountered it as a bug in the field.

2) We have placed an increased emphasis on automated testing efforts.  In 
addition to building up a lot of test environments inside of Digium, there is 
now an open source automated testing effort for Asterisk.  There are over 200 
test cases that run every time anyone touches the code.  This includes complex 
call scenarios such as transfers and call parking.  These open source test 
cases touch about 25% of the code (and what it does touch are things we 
considered some of the most important parts).  That is a huge step forward from 
where we started.  We are continuing to place more and more resources on this 
effort to move it forward.

Despite comments in this thread, there _are_ many people using Asterisk 1.8 in 
production, including large installations.  The ones with systems working 
perfectly fine don't tend to make as much noise.  :-)  For those still getting 
hit by problems, I hope that you can make the time to report them so that we 
can work with you to get them resolved.

I started my work on Asterisk as a volunteer 7 years ago and even though it is 
now my full time job, I still put many personal hours into the project.  I care 
very deeply about the success of Asterisk.  I truly believe that the steps we 
have taken with release management are in the best interest of the project.

Thanks,

-- 
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445 Jan Davis Drive NW- Huntsville, AL 35806  -  USA
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Bryant Zimmerman]

I will throw in my 2 cents on this. I agree that 1.8 is not as stable as it 
needs to be. From my perspective I will continue to use the 1.4.x or 
1.6.2.x release that is the best fit for me and it should continue to do 
what it does and it get's it's security releases.

If the primary development focus is moved to 1.8 to get the lead out and 
stabilize it than that is what I want. New work on 1.10 should only be 
under taken after 1.8.x is stable then we can tinker with the newer stuff. 
Making it stable makes it stronger. As far as I can see 1.4.x is stable and 
that is what people want use it until 1.8.x is where you want it but test 
1.8.x help find the bugs so you can make the move otherwise stay with the 
solid 1.4.x and wait for others to find the bugs in the newer versions. I 
know of several companies that are on 1.2 and will make the move to a new 
version only if 1.2 fails them and it has not for their needs. Again we do 
need 1.8 to be stabilized quickly the stuck voicemail issues and system 
crashes are driving me crazy. 

Thanks to all of the developers who work on asterisk. The core makes my 
business possible. Keep up the good work

Thanks
Bryant

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Danny Nicholas]

This may be "Gas on the fire", but I think "somebody" (Digium/the
community/etc) needs to make a "1.4 parallel" installation of 1.8 and get
the baseline in order.  Once the parallel features are functional, then we
can all sweat the problems in the extra features.  If I can install 1.8 and
know that I can "turn off" things to get to 1.4 "solidness", then I don't
have a problem with this kettle of fish.  BTW, where does 1.10 fit into this
conversation?



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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Kevin Keane]

> We have a discussion on asterisk-dev about the maintenance of the 1.4 branch. 
> According to the release plans, support for 1.4 was scheduled to close in 
> April 2011 - basically now. After that, only security patches would be 
> committed. This is already a delay from the original plan published by 
> Russell Bryant.

> Unfortunately, I think this is way too early.

I don't have first-hand experience or an opinion on this matter, but just 
wanted to comment on how refreshingly welcome it is to have this discussion at 
all - without Open Source, we'd simply be stuck with a "Vista" type software 
(if I believe those who expressed concerns about 1.8).

I do have one question: what about the ecosystem? Many people don't use 
Asterisk by itself, but as part of distributions (PBX in a Flash, Trixbox, ...) 
and with tools such as FreePBX to configure it. How ready is the ecosystem for 
moving to a new Asterisk version?


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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Michael L. Young]

- Original Message -
> From: "Olle E. Johansson" 
> To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion" 
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:34:03 PM
> Subject: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?
>
> Friends,
>
> We have a discussion on asterisk-dev about the maintenance of the 1.4
> branch. According to the release plans, support for 1.4 was
> scheduled to close in April 2011 - basically now. After that, only
> security patches would be committed. This is already a delay from
> the original plan published by Russell Bryant.
>
> Unfortunately, I think this is way too early. My feeling and
> experience is that 1.8 is not ready for production in the
> environments I work in - large scale installations. Customers are
> not planning migration and all new installs are still 1.4. Tests
> we've been doing with 1.8 has failed within just a short time and so
> badly that customers has not paid me to spend any further time with
> 1.8.
>

Whats the game plan to get 1.8 "ready for production"?  To me, for which I say 
this with all respect, some are focusing still on 1.4 instead of getting 1.8 to 
the level that some of the members of the community are wanting to see.  1.4 
has been very stable for a while.  To the point that I only pay attention to 
security releases to be honest.  It has been this way for quite a while now.  I 
personally have been focused more on using 1.8 when I can, mainly on 
non-critical servers, yet I will admit that I have enough confidence in it now 
to use on main servers.  Why?  Because I want to get my production servers off 
of 1.4 and 1.6.2 due to new features.  But, even if I didn't need or want the 
new features, the current state of 1.4 is excellent.  If I don't ever make the 
move beyond 1.4, how can I contribute to a better product?  By experimenting 
and not giving up at the first sign of trouble with the latest version, I feel 
that I can help to make 1.8 better which ultimately benefits me and the 
community.  I would like to hear a game plan before we just say, yes, lets keep 
focusing on 1.4 and then we will decide a deadline to stop support.  I am 
afraid that software is programmed by imperfect humans and there will always be 
a bug or two that crops up from time to time.  Do we want to keep waiting until 
we feel it is "perfect"?

One thing I have noticed, is that the bug fixes and patches being contributed 
for 1.8 and trunk are not being taken care of as quickly as it used to back in 
the early 1.4 days.  My feelings are that it is because there have been too 
many releases to work on.  Going back to focusing on just 1.8 and trunk, would 
go a long way to speeding up bug fixes to 1.8.  Again, just my opinion.

> Last time we went through this process with a LTS release (which we
> did not know then) it took over one year before we had a stable
> product to migrate away from 1.2 and jump on the 1.4 track.
> Hopefully, with the help of community, we can move up to 1.8 late
> this year or early next year. For me 1.8 is the focus, it's the LTS
> release.
>
> Not having a supported 1.4 version from the Digium-hosted
> repositories will mean that we will have to move to separate
> repositories or branch off from the main track. I already maintain a
> ton of subversion branches with various patches to 1.4 It takes a
> lot of time to manage this version that is a fork from the main 1.4
> branch. I will soon have to start working with subversion branches
> for 1.8 to create a compatible version for my customers to test,
> since most of the patches is not part of 1.8. After a few years of
> doing this, I know the work involved with managing code myself.
>
> The Digium team wants to go ahead and not support 1.4 any more, I
> want to keep 1.4 open for normal bug fixes. What do you think?

Was this really Digium's decision?  You keep mentioning Digium and implying 
them as the evil one in all of this (perhaps I am just misunderstanding your 
tone in your emails and if I am, I sincerely apologize for this) when I seem to 
recall plenty of discussion around these time lines and it was the community 
who set the deadlines, not Digium.  Digium is just trying to abide by the time 
lines outlined for them by the community.  They have already been nice enough 
to extend the deadline in order to finish working on outstanding bug reports 
and patches.  They have bills to pay too and have really tried to extend an 
olive branch to everyone in the community.  There has been a lot of activity on 
the 1.4 branch lately.  If I am wrong, I will gladly retract my comments.

>
> Kevin proposed that the community maintains the 1.4 branch without
> support from the Digium team. I don't think that's a good solution,
> but it may be the only solution.  I haven't got the resources to
> manage the 1.4 code myself, so I won't step forward as a maintainer
> if I can't get proper funding. Anyone else out there that has the
> time and resources to manage the code

Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Matteo Piazza]

I agree 100%, it's too early.
There is a lot of businnes out of there based on 1.4 (even still 1.2), 
and my feelings is that a lot of people is not going to upgrade the 
asterisk version, they are going to stay with 1.4 for a long time yet.


Also i wanna add another little consideration. Voip is not only a 
software matter, is a Telecomunication matter. And into the 
Telecomunication world the first priority is the reliability and 
reliability and reliability without forget that usually the lifetime of 
a telecomunicaton product is much more than 4 years.


I'm not a code writer so I can't put my effort in maintaince stuff.

I think 1.4 should be open at least for some critical bug like for 
example segmentation fault or memory leack.

Matteo


Il 27/04/2011 21:34, Olle E. Johansson ha scritto:

Friends,

We have a discussion on asterisk-dev about the maintenance of the 1.4 branch. 
According to the release plans, support for 1.4 was scheduled to close in April 
2011 - basically now. After that, only security patches would be committed. 
This is already a delay from the original plan published by Russell Bryant.

Unfortunately, I think this is way too early. My feeling and experience is that 
1.8 is not ready for production in the environments I work in - large scale 
installations. Customers are not planning migration and all new installs are 
still 1.4. Tests we've been doing with 1.8 has failed within just a short time 
and so badly that customers has not paid me to spend any further time with 1.8.

Last time we went through this process with a LTS release (which we did not 
know then) it took over one year before we had a stable product to migrate away 
from 1.2 and jump on the 1.4 track. Hopefully, with the help of community, we 
can move up to 1.8 late this year or early next year. For me 1.8 is the focus, 
it's the LTS release.

Not having a supported 1.4 version from the Digium-hosted repositories will 
mean that we will have to move to separate repositories or branch off from the 
main track. I already maintain a ton of subversion branches with various 
patches to 1.4 It takes a lot of time to manage this version that is a fork 
from the main 1.4 branch. I will soon have to start working with subversion 
branches for 1.8 to create a compatible version for my customers to test, since 
most of the patches is not part of 1.8. After a few years of doing this, I know 
the work involved with managing code myself.

The Digium team wants to go ahead and not support 1.4 any more, I want to keep 
1.4 open for normal bug fixes. What do you think?

Kevin proposed that the community maintains the 1.4 branch without support from 
the Digium team. I don't think that's a good solution, but it may be the only 
solution.  I haven't got the resources to manage the 1.4 code myself, so I 
won't step forward as a maintainer if I can't get proper funding. Anyone else 
out there that has the time and resources to manage the code?

Feel free to send me mail off list if you have ideas or suggestions on how to 
solve this - or continue the discussion here.

Regards,
/Olle

PS. Please don't start a discussion about 1.8 quality in this thread, that's a 
separate issue. I just want to know what you think about closing 1.4 support 
now. If you want to discuss 1.8 quality, start a new thread. Thanks.
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Gordon Henderson]

On Wed, 27 Apr 2011, Olle E. Johansson wrote:

The Digium team wants to go ahead and not support 1.4 any more, I want 
to keep 1.4 open for normal bug fixes. What do you think?


I would like to see continued bug and security fixes for 1.4 for some time 
yet.


As well as a raft of hosted servers, I have several hundred systems out 
there - many small embedded type installations (boot from flash, run in 
ram - my own custom Linux install) - a lot still running 1.2 which will 
never be upgraded until they die.


I didn't find 1.4 stable enough for my needs until about the late 
1.4.20's.


And really, I don't have a need for 1.4 - 1.2 did (and still does) 
everything I need to build a PBX capable of a few 100 extensions, but I 
felt that if I didn't move then things would get tough - no bug fixes, no 
support, and being laughed at for being such a dinosaur...


Right now, I've no plans at all to move to 1.8, nor the time at present to 
even download, compile and test it. There are no features in it that I 
need and no bugs (that affect me & my simple needs) that it fixes in 1.4 
that I'm aware of. So I don't feel the point. (The one thing it might have 
- BRI support in DAHDI is now moot as I've decided to abandon all on-board 
PSTN hardware and use external devices as it's much less of a hassle 
all-round and I want to sell SIP minutes!)


Gordon

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Administrator TOOTAI]

Le 27/04/2011 21:34, Olle E. Johansson a écrit :

Friends,

We have a discussion on asterisk-dev about the maintenance of the 1.4 branch. 
According to the release plans, support for 1.4 was scheduled to close in April 
2011 - basically now. After that, only security patches would be committed. 
This is already a delay from the original plan published by Russell Bryant.

Unfortunately, I think this is way too early. My feeling and experience is that 
1.8 is not ready for production in the environments I work in - large scale 
installations. Customers are not planning migration and all new installs are 
still 1.4. Tests we've been doing with 1.8 has failed within just a short time 
and so badly that customers has not paid me to spend any further time with 1.8.

[...]

Agree with you at 100%. 1.8 is not ready for production. I remember our 
switch from 1.2 to 1.4  very early and had huge problems (misdn and 
B410P just comes in my mind), had to work with trunk, aso. At 1.4.8 or 
so it started to be stable. We're now at 1.8.3 ...


Also, latest 1.4 had some regressions (eg voicemailbox sequences), which 
means that we're not, at this time, sure that basic stuffs are working 
smoothly with 1.4.41 What happends if new regressions appears?


My vote goes to stay with 1.4 and continue to stabilize it (not asking 
to include new stuff) till community declare that 1.8 is at the level of 
1.4.


--
Daniel

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Olle E. Johansson]

> 
> I(me, my opinion, my feelings, my commercial view) am on the side of
> dropping support for 1.4 and 1.6.  1.8 had some major issues which are
> resolved/being worked on with more energy as older platforms are shut
> down. If a large enough security issue showed up, I hope we would all
> try to do the right thing and push it back to 1.6 and 1.4.
1.6.x is not an option for me at all. These' releases are not LTS. We can't 
upgrade as often as that release schedule required. I am very happy to see 
1.6.x disappear
in the darkness and from my hard disk drives.

> Support
> must end sometime. Merging changes across many versions is very
> difficult and time consuming.  
I fully agree here.

> Asterisk GUI is very limited do to its
> 1.4 support code.  There are users that still use 1.2 and are very
> happy.  They are not looking for new features. I hope the 1.4 / 1.6
> users can survive while they test the 1.8 branch and share why or why
> not it will fit their needs.

They will survive and they will merge their own bug fixes. I just wish we could 
share the work and maintain the branch in public instead of everyone managing 
it by their own. As long as 1.8 is not ready for the way we use it, we have no 
version to migrate to. 

I am sure that 1.8 will fit their needs and deliver a lot of extra. It's a cool 
new release. Everyone wants to go there. That's not the issue here. The issue 
is when it's ready for the larger installed base beyond the early adoptors.

I don't like the project I've been part of for many years not offering a 
supported option that fits the customers I work with. It's as simple as that. 

Saying that they should know better, that the project has posted the release 
plans for a long time warning about this - it  just doesn't cut it as long as 
we have no working code to replace the current version with. 

Compared with last time we had a painful migration (from 1.2 to 1.4) there are 
numerous other options out there.  I think the project have to be a bit more 
careful about our attitude towards the installed base. I want to keep them in 
the Asterisk project. That is where I belong and where they belong.

/O
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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Andrew Latham]

On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Olle E. Johansson  wrote:
> Friends,
>
> We have a discussion on asterisk-dev about the maintenance of the 1.4 branch. 
> According to the release plans, support for 1.4 was scheduled to close in 
> April 2011 - basically now. After that, only security patches would be 
> committed. This is already a delay from the original plan published by 
> Russell Bryant.
>
> Unfortunately, I think this is way too early. My feeling and experience is 
> that 1.8 is not ready for production in the environments I work in - large 
> scale installations. Customers are not planning migration and all new 
> installs are still 1.4. Tests we've been doing with 1.8 has failed within 
> just a short time and so badly that customers has not paid me to spend any 
> further time with 1.8.
>
> Last time we went through this process with a LTS release (which we did not 
> know then) it took over one year before we had a stable product to migrate 
> away from 1.2 and jump on the 1.4 track. Hopefully, with the help of 
> community, we can move up to 1.8 late this year or early next year. For me 
> 1.8 is the focus, it's the LTS release.
>
> Not having a supported 1.4 version from the Digium-hosted repositories will 
> mean that we will have to move to separate repositories or branch off from 
> the main track. I already maintain a ton of subversion branches with various 
> patches to 1.4 It takes a lot of time to manage this version that is a fork 
> from the main 1.4 branch. I will soon have to start working with subversion 
> branches for 1.8 to create a compatible version for my customers to test, 
> since most of the patches is not part of 1.8. After a few years of doing 
> this, I know the work involved with managing code myself.
>
> The Digium team wants to go ahead and not support 1.4 any more, I want to 
> keep 1.4 open for normal bug fixes. What do you think?
>
> Kevin proposed that the community maintains the 1.4 branch without support 
> from the Digium team. I don't think that's a good solution, but it may be the 
> only solution.  I haven't got the resources to manage the 1.4 code myself, so 
> I won't step forward as a maintainer if I can't get proper funding. Anyone 
> else out there that has the time and resources to manage the code?
>
> Feel free to send me mail off list if you have ideas or suggestions on how to 
> solve this - or continue the discussion here.
>
> Regards,
> /Olle
>
> PS. Please don't start a discussion about 1.8 quality in this thread, that's 
> a separate issue. I just want to know what you think about closing 1.4 
> support now. If you want to discuss 1.8 quality, start a new thread. Thanks.

Olle

I(me, my opinion, my feelings, my commercial view) am on the side of
dropping support for 1.4 and 1.6.  1.8 had some major issues which are
resolved/being worked on with more energy as older platforms are shut
down. If a large enough security issue showed up, I hope we would all
try to do the right thing and push it back to 1.6 and 1.4. Support
must end sometime. Merging changes across many versions is very
difficult and time consuming.  Asterisk GUI is very limited do to its
1.4 support code.  There are users that still use 1.2 and are very
happy.  They are not looking for new features. I hope the 1.4 / 1.6
users can survive while they test the 1.8 branch and share why or why
not it will fit their needs.

-- 
~~~ Andrew "lathama" Latham lath...@gmail.com ~~~

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Tim Nelson]

- Original Message -
> Friends,
> 
> SNIP
> 
> Unfortunately, I think this is way too early. My feeling and
> experience is that 1.8 is not ready for production in the environments
> I work in - large scale installations. Customers are not planning
> migration and all new installs are still 1.4. Tests we've been doing
> with 1.8 has failed within just a short time and so badly that
> customers has not paid me to spend any further time with 1.8.
> 
> SNIP
>

I've found the same issues. Asterisk 1.4.x is extremely stable and is running 
on all of our direct infrastructure as well as our customer owned 
infrastructure. Testing of the 1.8.x branch has shown quite a few problems and 
I'm definitely not putting it into production any time soon. It *IS* a good 
step forward, and I'm excited to see where it ends up, but I certainly don't 
find it to be a valid replacement for rock solid 1.4.x boxes right now.

I hope enough others echo simlar findings to allow a second look at a Digium 
maintained 1.4.x.

Unfortunately, we (personally, or company wise) cannot offer any development 
resources for a community maintained 1.4.x branch.

--Tim

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Re: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?

[Danny Nicholas]

> -Original Message-
> From: asterisk-users-boun...@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-
> boun...@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Olle E. Johansson
> Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 2:34 PM
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: [asterisk-users] Discussion: Are we ready to leave 1.4 behind?
> 
> Friends,
> 
> We have a discussion on asterisk-dev about the maintenance of the 1.4
> branch. According to the release plans, support for 1.4 was scheduled to
> close in April 2011 - basically now. After that, only security patches
> would be committed. This is already a delay from the original plan
> published by Russell Bryant.
> 
> Unfortunately, I think this is way too early. My feeling and experience is
> that 1.8 is not ready for production in the environments I work in - large
> scale installations. Customers are not planning migration and all new
> installs are still 1.4. Tests we've been doing with 1.8 has failed within
> just a short time and so badly that customers has not paid me to spend any
> further time with 1.8.
> 

> 
> Not having a supported 1.4 version from the Digium-hosted repositories
> will mean that we will have to move to separate repositories or branch off
> from the main track. I already maintain a ton of subversion branches with
> various patches to 1.4 It takes a lot of time to manage this version that
> is a fork from the main 1.4 branch. I will soon have to start working with
> subversion branches for 1.8 to create a compatible version for my
> customers to test, since most of the patches is not part of 1.8. After a
> few years of doing this, I know the work involved with managing code
> myself.
> 
> The Digium team wants to go ahead and not support 1.4 any more, I want to
> keep 1.4 open for normal bug fixes. What do you think?
> 
> Kevin proposed that the community maintains the 1.4 branch without support
> from the Digium team. I don't think that's a good solution, but it may be
> the only solution.  I haven't got the resources to manage the 1.4 code
> myself, so I won't step forward as a maintainer if I can't get proper
> funding. Anyone else out there that has the time and resources to manage
> the code?
> 
> Feel free to send me mail off list if you have ideas or suggestions on how
> to solve this - or continue the discussion here.
> 
> Regards,
> /Olle
[Danny Nicholas] 
IMO, 1.4 should be kept open for bug fixes since it is the "current working
standard" - until 1.8 works in parallel function-for-function with 1.4, it
is NOT a production-ready release.  What good is a Ferrari with 3 tires?


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