Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Blind people seem irrationally terrified of things like braces and mice. ... crap why didn't someone pull an "Eek! A mouse!" when Swamp was new? ... OK, I guess because that'd've been mean.Well, I'm better than that. I'm irrationally afraid of people. Such a better reason to fail, wouldn't you agree?... Wait...(But so far as gamedev is concerned, I feel I should reiterate that people make video games without ever learning how to program if they're sighted. They just install Unity and a model/animation editor, then create a Kickstarter, then take a year to release 15 minutes of a survival horror game that the internet immediately falls in love with. ... I'm not bitter; I'd say I'm more sour, but then I'd have to dissect all the implications of that, and ain't nobody got time for that.) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415945/#p415945 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head I believe C-based languages use braces. Indenting is a great habit to get in to regardless of language though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415880/#p415880 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
2019-03-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Hi, python is by far the best language for me out there. i can't make great apps yet, but i am on my way. every day i am learning some thing new with python. the indentation was bad for me at first to get use to, but once you get the hang of it, braces will deffenetly not be for you.you can even choose if you want to make use of tabs or spaces for indenting. what do you have in c# or c++ for example?I know you will also need to make use of indentation, but that is not reelly a requirement. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415865/#p415865 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head The best thing that has happened to me is Python. Never thought I'd say that, but I'm so glad to have left BGT behind.For those who want to use it, have fun. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/415848/#p415848 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @41, again, what Ironcross32 and I have been trying to tell you is still perfectly acceptable. Most clones and crap these days have been (partially) because of BGT and its simplicity. Someone can just get the source code of these games and run with it. The idea of BGT is a good one, but it tends to encourage the exact behavioral patterns we have seen. The simplicity gives people who don't know how to actually develop good quality games the idea that they can just sit down and instantly start coding a game and the engine will do all the hand-holding. Python does not give such an experience. Python will hold your hand, to an extent, but will certainly let go if you mess up. It is forgiving, to a degree, but isn't as forgiving as BGT is. Python will push you to make good applications, and good products. It will encourage you to make cross-platform apps. It will (pretty much) make you put in all the effort you can to make your game, app, or whatever, the best it can be. C++ is far less forgiving than Python is. But I don't want to push people into learning that purely because its a far more complex beast than Python is, and it has many misconceptions that people need to get over before they can start down that road. But that's a topic for another day. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414840/#p414840 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Isn't that what we want? I know I do. I'm tired of the crap out there, let's see someone put in some actual effort. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414800/#p414800 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Re: Post 39.If I did misinterpret your post, it's only because I was trying to follow your own example as you kept completely missing the point of my arguments on this subject earlier. I hope I made you proud, sensei.However, I'm not sure how the following post can be interpreted differently?@28, by discouraging the inexperienced you are filtering out those who won't take the time and effort into making good audio games. If we weed those out, we'll get high quality audio games, and good audio game developers as a result because they'll know what their actually doing.Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414772/#p414772 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Re: Post 39.Well, I was trying to follow your own example as you kept completely missing the point of my arguments on this subject earlier. I hope I made you proud, sensei.Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414772/#p414772 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head How about we don't "weed out" anybody and instead learn that you don't have to answer to every single topic? You don't like BGT, very simple. Ignore the topic and let somebody who likes it help a newbie. If there are no such people, even better, the newbie is much more likely to move on when they cannot get help because of the language. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414768/#p414768 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @32, nice way of completely (and deliberately, I think) misinterpreting my post. We don't weed out the newbies/inexperienced to keep only experts. We weed out those people who are unwilling to take the time to actually learn Python or another programming language. We weed out those who are unwilling to try things that seem hard to generate excellent outcomes. Please stop twisting my words for your own interpretation of reality. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414754/#p414754 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Pygame is picky with regards to when and how you init the mixer. If you call pygame.init, you need to call pygame.mixer.pre_init (with the parameters fitting your sounds), but if you don't call pygame.init, you should call pygame.mixer.init. ... I think. It's been like 5 years since I've had to do it, iirc. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414723/#p414723 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head I am currently making a game in Python.Since it just uses the terminal to output text and it's accessible, I don't need sound hahahahaha!I'm sometimes forgetting indentation since I'm used to BGT, but that also helped me to get used to some things, I can already make classes which is not very hard lol.I also don't need speech, but does anyone wanna give me a sound library that *actually* works, instead of making clicking noises like pygame did. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414705/#p414705 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
2019-02-26
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Developers room : oussamabengatrane via Audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head that's exactly, one of the Reasons why i don't use python URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414674/#p414674 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head I need both, but yeah especially the sound. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414643/#p414643 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head IDK, my java games are exactly as crappy as the BGT ports. Of course, they broke Javasound, so it's not like I can port them back (and reintroduce the Java-born problems).Someone who charges $5-20 to get people to the point where audio and redist work for anything other than BGT in under two hours would probably make, like, half a mint. Those are the main things that BGT does better than anything else (or at least, until the antivirus thing came along), that and maybe speech. I don't need training in how to code in these other languages; I need a freakin' map to getting sound to play and my programs to work on devices other than the one I created them on. Google has been insufficient to resolve this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414642/#p414642 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head I didn't read 28 that way at all. I read it as a rebuttal to my post previous to that, suggesting that forcing python or other languages on people is a discouragement to the inexperienced. Which I can agree with, my viewpoint is though, if you're unwilling to stick it out through the tough times, then how will you make games. You see all these downright crappy games coming out all over the place, and they're all BGT. Why are they all BGT? Because there is so much source code out there and people just take it and run. The matter of BGT versus any other language is purely subjective, but I think even the "let's let people choose their own language" people can agree that you can't code a game with public classes and stolen sounds and modifying a few variables. I mean from a player's point of view, I could care less about what language it is coded in, if it works, and is fun, I'll play it, if it is a sold product, I'll buy it. Liam made games with BGT, and I played them. But I don't want to put exclusions in my system just to play BGT games. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414621/#p414621 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Re: Post 28.So... You want to get rid of inexperienced developers who are learning the craft, thereby keeping people from ever learning, and only the experts can stick around? I think you'll find this narrow-minded view slightly self-destructive. I'm assuming that you were just born an expert in your programming language of choice, then, not ever having to learn the language's ins and outs? I salute your elitism.Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414597/#p414597 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head precisely. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414595/#p414595 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @28, by discouraging the inexperienced you are filtering out those who won't take the time and effort into making good audio games. If we weed those out, we'll get high quality audio games, and good audio game developers as a result because they'll know what their actually doing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414588/#p414588 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head That's kind of the point, make it too easy, and the content produced is no good at all. Make them put in some effort to learn the stuff, and they do a better job because they'd have quit otherwise. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414574/#p414574 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head And discourages the inexperienced. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414571/#p414571 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head I don't see a lot of cooks in the kitchen though, or to further the analogy, a chaos of open oven doors, malformed batters, burnt cake, etc. The situation doesn't look good. Here's the thing though, Python will stop you cold, in other words, you can't be lazy and grab a BGT includes pack and just rip stuff from here, from there, and cobble a shoddy framework together, modify a few values and call it a game. You have to work for it, you have to put the time and research into how to work with a virtual environment, how to install packages, and you actually have to build your own thing. This puts a stop to 90% of the ridiculous things we seem to be flooded with right now, because you just can't do it in Python, not with the same level of ease. If a person took the time to learn how to work with Python and then came up with something, that thing would have a higher likelihood of being good because they literally had to put effort into it. So python weeds out the lazy people. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414553/#p414553 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head The reason that there aren't any good audio games hasn't got anything to do with the language used. It has everything to do with the fact that there just aren't that many experienced developers working on them. There's a lot of people with pie in the sky ideas but not that many who have the luxury to devote there time to really making one. After all, no one will make a living on making audio games. There just aren't enough blind people who will pay for them.Also there seem to be a lot of lone wolves out there (me included) who try to do stuff on their own because they don't know how to network, aren't use to it, or whatever. Big games take teams. Of course there are always going to be exceptions like BK3 and a handful of others that could be considered "big projects," but that's the exception, not the rule.As for learning programming, no matter what code base you are using there are concepts that are universal: loops, objects, conditionals, level design, etc. It doesn't matter where you learn those concepts. The syntax changes, but not the ideas.I'd rather someone spend time learning those core concepts than wasting their time trying to just get a language running. I don't use BGT. I used C++ for a long time and now I'm switching to Python for my own reasons. But I don't care what recipe or oven someone uses. I only care if they can bake the cake. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414539/#p414539 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Even the guys who have relied on BGT as a staple of their development have moved away from it. All the new games that have come out with it are not really good. Mostly coding exercises for people. Some of those have potential, but were released extremely too early, which is another thing that you see more and more. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414533/#p414533 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head I have a big ECTAS CHANGELOG I've been sitting on, if that counts? (It doesn't count.) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414529/#p414529 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head oh yeah I can't even play a god damn sound in python, its infuriating.Also, point me at a game that has come out recently, or has been recently updated that's written in BGT. Not many contenders, as RS has shut down. I guess FF is still running. OK I'll give you The Great Cheese Robbery, because even though its not complex and doesn't require much in the way of strategizing, its got a lot going for it in terms of polish, and pick up and playability. Other than that, what do we have. We have nothing, or not much of anything except clones and more clones. SO if people want to use BGT, then use it, come on, produce a game. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414526/#p414526 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head People expect AAA quality from modern audio games. That's just not happening without a budget. Who is making audio games with a decent budget? cause The Gate was somewhere in the neighborhood of $1k, and people still complained about the sounds and acting. Switching to Python changes none of that. Like, what changes if VGStorm games were made in Python? The antivirus thing, and an extra 12mb of file size.Does AHC have passable quality? Well, congrats; that was over $10k, and still commercial.Swamp and BK don't use super realistic 3d virtual reality orgasmosound, and are still big deals, many years after their release.Don't misunderstand me, Kakarot. I've been trying to make games in Python, too. Mysteriously, the BGT games are the only ones that get ... uploaded to Sendspace, mostly because of *rereads post#1* ... nothing to do with those, actually, even though those very problems are a serious barrier to doing anything that isn't a side-scroller. But it's mostly just the same crap that I'm always whining about. It's just worse with Python because it has dependency cascades along with all the problems I left Java for in the first place.Sure, BGT doesn't support 3d sound. ... Wait, no, I was told to use ctypes to get fmodex to work with Python, which is different from Genoa's BGT wrapper for Fmodex only in that it has better support for geometry and reverb. (And I wrote a C wrapper that should make reverb available to BGT, if I can figure out htf my compiler broke and fix it).We are poor and cannot use drag-and-drop gamedev tools. AAA games are better compared to Holywood. It's a miracle every time an audio game that isn't mostly crap is released, given what we have to work with. I don't care what language it's in; I care if it's fun. Fun does not require hyper realistic 3d AAA audio. It requires good game design, and good content to go with it certainly helps*sigh* pumping out generic FPS games that are basically Audio Dramas with combat would be a viable strategy to succeed at audio games, wouldn't it? ... OK, someone try this, and I'll try to come up with a story to fail to convince you to make into one of these. You know, because everyone and their dog is going to have one to request if it actually works. But sure, BGT isn't so great if what you want is a first person short film with fights. _javascript_ might be, if it wasn't even more convoluted than Python when it comes to PLAYING AN EFFKING SOUND! Which brings us back to the nightmare of dependency scavenger hunts, along with the bonus round that is dependencies mysteriously breaking for no apparent reason but also somehow working differently if you import modules in a different order even though that wasn't the case on the other account and DOCTOR OCTO-MOTHER-FUNDIN'-GONOPUS BLBLBLBLAA! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414520/#p414520 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @21 BK3 was coded in HSPAlso many flaws have already been pointed out in BGT, its author has pretty much urged no further use of it. Perhaps urged is too strong a word, perhaps publiclly disclaimed use of it. There is also the fact that BGT in its own right gives you everything you need. So you realize you want to move away from it, then enter the world of dependency hunting and so forth. Nah, why do that now when there is shrinking need for BGT in today's market. I don't know about you, but I would not be asking people to open a hole in their system just to play my game. BGT gives a false sense of how programming really is. It was fine for back in the day when audio games were not complex. Now that they are, the underlying technology needs to be there to support the features people expect in a modern audiogame. BGT has very limited external library support and no ctypes support. For so many reasons and more, people need to just drop it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414500/#p414500 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Re: Post 19.I think the fact that you keep pointing out more and more flaws as perceived by you neatly illustrates the fact that you're just not getting the point I'm trying to get across. I'm also not mentioning anywhere that you would be mandated to assist the aspiring programmer to learn their defunct language. After all, take Aprone as an example. He's perfectly happy coding in Visual Basic 6, and people are still fine with playing his games. Is there an issue that he likes VB6 rather than the latest and greatest programming language?Crazy Party is a pretty popular BGT game, as is BK3 etc. The evidence is there that game players aren't as picky about what programming language developers use. So long as games are being made.And yet all these players and coders who are using these defunct and unsupported languages aren't hurting you personally in any way, so why rail against people using BGT. Perhaps if they came up to you specifically and asked for help, you might say you refuse to help people who use BGT, but I've seen some of you guys jump into general topics just to derail the conversation into a public shaming of the language, and by proxy those who ue that language. Being that this forum is supposed to be promoting the creation of audio games, it seems counter intuitive that we should be perfectly fine berating developers who'd like to learn a language that isn't "the accepted norm".For the sake of sparing other readers from this back and forth, though, I'm going to just let my point stand that we should live and let live, allow people to code as they wish in whatever language they wish, be it Python, C++, Assembly, or Ancient Greek.Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414495/#p414495 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @18, you and I shall have to agree to disagree, then. I'd rather help someone develop a game in Python, help them build it, and distribute it, and make the installation and setup of the game as painless as possible, rather than having users jump through hoops and risk the security of their computers by opening holes in the safety net that is their AV programs. Remember that since you have to add the entire folder to the AV exceptions list, a virus can happily find that folder and nest in there and you'd never know until it was too late. On windows, such a risk is exponentially higher than it is on any other platform. Saying that "oh, use common sense" only works so far, since viruses have this nasty habit of ending up on computers no matter what you try. You can avoid them, though there are some very crafty and creative shapes viruses can take. And yes, the chance of the virus happening to come across that folder is low, but not null and void altogether. Its better to attempt to eliminate a risk like that as best you can rather than creating more for yourself just to play a game.Edit: another disadvantage to BGT is the lack of HTTPS support. As HTTP/2 and TLS 1.3 become more common, more and more sites will most likely switch to it, and I guarantee you that most web servers will come with HTTP/2 enabled by default. Since HTTP/2 does not allow insecure connections, BGT will not be able to access anything internet-related that uses HTTP/2, and people will need to deliberately make whatever their accessing insecure just so that BGT can access it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414491/#p414491 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @18, you and I shall have to agree to disagree, then. I'd rather help someone develop a game in Python, help them build it, and distribute it, and make the installation and setup of the game as painless as possible, rather than having users jump through hoops and risk the security of their computers by opening holes in the safety net that is their AV programs. Remember that since you have to add the entire folder to the AV exceptions list, a virus can happily find that folder and nest in there and you'd never know until it was too late. On windows, such a risk is exponentially higher than it is on any other platform. Saying that "oh, use common sense" only works so far, since viruses have this nasty habit of ending up on computers no matter what you try. You can avoid them, though there are some very crafty and creative shapes viruses can take. And yes, the chance of the virus happening to come across that folder is low, but not null and void altogether. Its better to attempt to eliminate a risk like that as best you can rather than creating more for yourself just to play a game.Edit: another disadvantage to BGT is the lack of HTTPS support. As HTTP/2 and TLS 1.3 become more common, more and more sites will most likely switch to it, and I guarantee you that most web servers will come with HTTP/2 enabled by default. Since HTTP/2 does not allow insecure connections, BGT will not be able to access anything internet-related, and people will need to deliberately make whatever their accessing via HTTP insecure just so that BGT can access it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414491/#p414491 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @18, you and I shall have to agree to disagree, then. I'd rather help someone develop a game in Python, help them build it, and distribute it, and make the installation and setup of the game as painless as possible, rather than having users jump through hoops and risk the security of their computers by opening holes in the safety net that is their AV programs. Remember that since you have to add the entire folder to the AV exceptions list, a virus can happily find that folder and nest in there and you'd never know until it was too late. On windows, such a risk is exponentially higher than it is on any other platform. Saying that "oh, use common sense" only works so far, since viruses have this nasty habit of ending up on computers no matter what you try. You can avoid them, though there are some very crafty and creative shapes viruses can take. And yes, the chance of the virus happening to come across that folder is low, but not null and void altogether. Its better to attempt to eliminate a risk like that as best you can rather than creating more for yourself just to play a game.Edit: another disadvantage to BGT is the lack of HTTPS support. As HTTP/2 and TLS 1.3 become more common, more and more sites will most likely switch to it, and I guarantee you that most web servers will come with HTTP/2 enabled by default. Since HTTP/2 does not allow insecure connections, BGT will not be able to access anything internet-related. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414491/#p414491 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @18, you and I shall have to agree to disagree, then. I'd rather help someone develop a game in Python, help them build it, and distribute it, and make the installation and setup of the game as painless as possible, rather than having users jump through hoops and risk the security of their computers by opening holes in the safety net that is their AV programs. Remember that since you have to add the entire folder to the AV exceptions list, a virus can happily find that folder and nest in there and you'd never know until it was too late. On windows, such a risk is exponentially higher than it is on any other platform. Saying that "oh, use common sense" only works so far, since viruses have this nasty habit of ending up on computers no matter what you try. You can avoid them, though there are some very crafty and creative shapes viruses can take. And yes, the chance of the virus happening to come across that folder is low, but not null and void altogether. Its better to attempt to eliminate a risk like that as best you can rather than creating more for yourself just to play a game. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414491/#p414491 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @18, you and I shall have to agree to disagree, then. I'd rather help someone develop a game in Python, help them build it, and distribute it, and make the installation and setup of the game as painless as possible, rather than having users jump through hoops and risk the security of their computers by opening holes in the safety net that is their AV programs. Remember that since you have to add the entire folder to the AV exceptions list, a virus can happily find that folder and nest in there and you'd never know until it was too late. On windows, such a risk is exponentially higher than it is on any other platform. Saying that "oh, use common sense" only works so far, since viruses have this nasty habit of ending up on computers no matter what you try. You can avoid them, but if you didn't have an AV program... well... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414491/#p414491 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @18, you and I shall have to agree to disagree, then. I'd rather help someone develop a game in Python, help them build it, and distribute it, and make the installation and setup of the game as painless as possible, rather than having users jump through hoops and risk the security of their computers by opening holes in the safety net that is their AV programs. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414491/#p414491 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Re: Post 17.I again reiterate, if a person learning or using BGT is cognicent of these pitfalls and is still fine with using the language, why do you still have so many issues with them using it? Is their use of the language personally importuning you in some way, shape, or form? Is their learning the language in some way obstructing the execution of your own ability to produce content in Python? I'll wager the answer to both is no, and if that's the case, why does it matter so much to you that they want to use BGT when they understand the difficulties that might arise from sticking to the language? I'd rather someone use BGT and produce a game people can play should they wish to traverse any obstacles that might be involved, than someone being turned away from BGT, who may not have an inclination to learn another programming language at that time, and so produces no content. Basically, live and let live.Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414490/#p414490 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @15, the AV issue is one reason. The lack of 3D is another. The poor networking and DLL support is another. The vendor lock-in is another. And so on. Your comparison doesn't make much sense, unfortunately. BGT's not even a programming language. Oh, and the lack of cross-platform support. Again, if you can give me legitimate reasons on how BGT would be better for new people to start off with instead of jumping into Python, please do. I ask you again because that pretty much seems like what your preaching here. You might like old and decrepit programming languages that are obsolete, but I'd rather introduce someone to a programming language that is actually being maintained rather than one that's (say in the future) 20-30 years out of date. The other issue with these obsolete programming languages is that they teach bad practices. The practices aren't bad now, not yet at least, for BGT anyway, but give it 3-4 years and C++/Python will be on a totally different wavelength. We need to introduce people to Python ASAP purely because the more updates the language receives, the further and further it pulls away from BGT, and the harder and harder it is to switch, which is the vendor lock-in that I was talking about. If you want to program a computer, you need to keep up with the times. That is exactly why Thomas Ward kept switching so much; technology moved far faster than he could adapt to, and he fell behind. That is exactly why I always build my C++ projects with the latest C++ standards and don't use (say) C++11 or C++03; I'd rather have my code up to date and make it much easier for people to contribute to (or modify in the future) rather than stick to old standards and practices that were obsoleted by future practices or standards.@16, I doubt it. AV's don't work like that. No good AV would just check the signature and if it looks reputable it'll let it pass. That'll pass smart screen, but not windows defender/malwarebytes and all the other AVs out there. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414486/#p414486 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @15, the AV issue is one reason. The lack of 3D is another. The poor networking and DLL support is another. The vendor lock-in is another. And so on. Your comparison doesn't make much sense, unfortunately. BGT's not even a programming language. Oh, and the lack of cross-platform support. Again, if you can give me legitimate reasons on how BGT would be better for new people to start off with instead of jumping into Python, please do. I ask you again because that pretty much seems like what your preaching here. You might like old and decrepit programming languages that are obsolete, but I'd rather introduce someone to a programming language that is actually being maintained rather than one that's (say in the future) 20-30 years out of date. The other issue with these obsolete programming languages is that they teach bad practices. The practices aren't bad now, not yet at least, for BGT anyway, but give it 3-4 years and C++/Python will be on a totally different wavelength. We need to introduce people to Python ASAP purely because the more updates the language receives, the further and further it pulls away from BGT, and the harder and harder it is to switch, which is the vendor lock-in that I was talking about. If you want to program a computer, you need to keep up with the times.@16, I doubt it. AV's don't work like that. No good AV would just check the signature and if it looks reputable it'll let it pass. That'll pass smart screen, but not windows defender/malwarebytes and all the other AVs out there. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414486/#p414486 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @15, the AV issue is one reason. The lack of 3D is another. The poor networking and DLL support is another. The vendor lock-in is another. And so on. Your comparison doesn't make much sense, unfortunately. BGT's not even a programming language.@16, I doubt it. AV's don't work like that. No good AV would just check the signature and if it looks reputable it'll let it pass. That'll pass smart screen, but not windows defender/malwarebytes and all the other AVs out there. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414486/#p414486 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head I wonder if a signed BGT program would pass as valid for an antivirus software. You know, if the certificate has already some reputation the executable file would inherit such reputation in smartscreen and that should work similarly in AV'S. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414484/#p414484 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Re: Post 12.You're completely missing the point. I'm neither arguing the merits of BGT over Python, nor Python over BGT. Re-read my postings. I'm saying let people code how they will and learn as they wish with what they wish. As long as they understand the pitfalls of the language they're learning (and they all have them), why do people care so much what ever language they want to use? Why does it matter so much to you that they *have* to be eating cream cheese bagels, rather than enjoy the plain toast that they like?Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414479/#p414479 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @12, I could argue that Python teaches you programming concepts as well. Ironcross32 has a point when he says that your average user (most of the people on here in other words) are not going to want to add a game to windows defender just to play it. They're not going to want to add a game to any antivirus program to play it. If you can give us several reasons how BGT is (somehow) better at teaching programming concepts to new programmers than Python is (despite the fact that Python is pretty much the number one programming language on the planet right now), please, feel free to elaborate on them. The fact that Python is the number one programming language in the world right now is a huge advantage for it, and that fact alone will sway many to its side. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414477/#p414477 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Hi,I have used Python for basically whatever I do and release to the public. It was not the first language I learnt, but by far is the one which I can feel more confident with over the years. I understand people arguing that C/C++ is better, faster and stuff like that, though you just need to take a look to a medium sized project to see how the complexity of mantaining the source code is evolving along with the program's code. At the end, people choose what works better for them.I can completely understand your pain about python not working in some situations and working in others. I remember having difficult times when dealing with certain features present on my system and, due to some reason noone would understand, absent from other's. So when I was building a distributable version of any project it would work in my machine, but as soon as someone else without, say, win32com, was trying it, the thing never worked. As others already suggested, I'd check the source code and take a look about how are the imports evaluated. I have noticed sometimes that makes a big difference from a non working package to another one that works perfectly fine.I consider a horrible syntax is as subjective as a beautiful one. Python is very easy to read and understand and, in case people don't like indentating, that's basically what everyone else around does for any other popular programming language, so no way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414474/#p414474 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Re: Post 4.BGT may be over for *you*, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a crime for someone else to use it. If this is the first language they started with, it's probably the easiest one, and it introduces them to programming concepts and such. I understand all the disadvantages of BGT, but that was in no wise the point of my post. Just because they still enjoy plain toast and you've moved on to cream cheese bagels, it doesn't mean people should be yelling at the person who likes plain toast and shaming them into switching.SKLuttrell understood the point of my post perfectly. Case in point, I start messing around with programming with Applesoft BASIC. Even though it's useless in this day and age, if I could get a good emulation of the Apple II E, I'd still play with writing something in Applesoft, just because it was such a simple language to work with.Furthermore, your yelling at someone to switch to a different language does nothing to foster a healthy adoption of any other language, nor does it do anything to bolster the confidence of up and coming programmers. Now if you wrote them explaining all the pitfalls and shortcomings they'll have to contend with by using BGT, then explain to them that despite those disadvantages, it's still a good language to learn with to allow programming concepts to sink in, then reiterate that when they're ready to move on there will be a community of programmers willing to help them (assuming this is true), that'd be a perfectly acceptable, civil, and honest approach. It's just all the BGT assassination on the forum that baffles me. So Windows Defender doesn't like BGT, so it's not supported, so it has bugs that'll never be resolved... I don't see that someone else using BGT is hurting those programmers who rail so mightily against it.The perfect example of this is that of Thomas Ward. He spent so much time putting down people who used any language that wasn't the one he was using, spent so much time changing to the latest and greatest programming language, and yet never produced a solid product. Instead, all we ever got was year after year of officious sounding notices explaining, for one reason or another, why product X would yet again be delayed. Had he poured that energy to actually coding the game in a language he knew and was comfortable with (rather than upgrading for the sake of upgrading), he might've been able to put out something concrete.Perhaps if some of that energy were poured instead into coding games, we'd have more fun and less putting down other peoples' choices of coding languages?Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414473/#p414473 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Re: Post 4.BGT may be over for *you*, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a crime for someone else to use it. If this is the first language they started with, it's probably the easiest one, and it introduces them to programming concepts and such. I understand all the disadvantages of BGT, but that was in no wise the point of my post. Just because they still enjoy plain toast and you've moved on to cream cheese bagels, it doesn't mean people should be yelling at the person who likes plain toast and shaming them into switching.SKLuttrell understood the point of my post perfectly. Case in point, I start messing around with programming with Applesoft BASIC. Even though it's useless in this day and age, if I could get a good emulation of the Apple II E, I'd still play with writing something in Applesoft, just because it was such a simple language to work with.Furthermore, your yelling at someone to switch to a different language does nothing to foster a healthy adoption of any other language, nor does it do anything to bolster the confidence of up and coming programmers. Now if you wrote them explaining all the pitfalls and shortcomings they'll have to contend with by using BGT, then explain to them that despite those disadvantages, it's still a good language to learn with to allow programming concepts to sink in, then reiterate that when they're ready to move on there will be a community of programmers willing to help them (assuming this is true), that'd be a perfectly acceptable, civil, and honest approach. It's just all the BGT assassination on the forum that baffles me. So Windows Defender doesn't like BGT, so it's not supported, so it has bugs that'll never be resolved... I don't see that someone else using BGT is hurting those programmers who rail so mightily against it. Perhaps if some of that energy were poured instead into coding games, we'd have more fun and less putting down other peoples' choices of coding languages?Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414473/#p414473 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Oh and regarding tk, the thing is completely inaccessible, when you create a frame and add controls to it, you have literally no access to said controls. The screen reader acts as if it's focused on a void or something. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414472/#p414472 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head hi,regarding c/c++:1. you require libraries, even sometimes you should compile them yourself.so, this is invalid.2. unfortunately, c++ isn't like bgt, although bgt's syntax is similar to c++. you will know what i'm saying when you grasp the pointers, inline assembly, templates etc and you know how to use them.3. different C++ compilers have different abi, meaning that sometimes a code might work in one of them, while at the same time, it might not work on another as expectednow, going to python1. what is your python version?2. what is your operating system?3. what is the error that you get?4. what was the command, or what was the line of code?5. what is the expected behavior?also, i have pyinstaller, pyaudio, pysdl2, pygame, and many many other packages, and all of them work fine!. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414465/#p414465 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @2. Don't know what to sayHorrible sintax? I don't know, isn't the horrible sintax a matter of opinion?About the indentation, that can be hard if you've never used it, but I ensure you that c++ stile guides actually tell to follow even if minimal indentation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414462/#p414462 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @5, let's see... allow me to amend to your list of compilers... ah, here we go: Watcom, Intel C/C++, Tiny C Compiler, Digital Mars C/C++, Borland... I could go on. And yeah, fully agree with you on the external dependencies thing. C++ can get ridiculously complicated sometimes, but its not all bad. It certainly is (probably) the finest language out there in terms of power, flexibility, library support and so on, though Python is quickly catching up to it in regards to flexibility (its most likely surpassed it in library support, though that's debatable since at a guess over 40 percent of the Python libraries are C/C++ DLLs).@tmstuff000, please go write a memory allocator or a stable security infrastructure in your beloved C++ and you will find that it can become very, very difficult, and can become a very dangerous road if your not careful. I've never written either of these (memory allocator/security library) but know the pitfalls of manual memory allocation, memory security, and so on. Its not as wonderful as roses. In fact, it can get as dirty as a dumpster, and as dangerous as a battlefield that's extremely active. Bjarne Stroustrup put it best when he said, “C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do it blows your whole leg off.” URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414461/#p414461 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @2. Don't know what to sayHorrible sintax? I don't know, isn't the horrible sintax a matter of opinion?About the indentation, that can be hard if you've never used it, but I ensure you that c++ stile guides actually use documentation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414462/#p414462 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @5, let's see... allow me to amend to your list of compilers... ah, here we go: Watcom, Intel C/C++, Tiny C Compiler, Digital Mars C/C++, Borland... I could go on. And yeah, fully agree with you on the external dependencies thing. C++ can get ridiculously complicated sometimes, but its not all bad. It certainly is (probably) the finest language out there in terms of power, flexibility, library support and so on, though Python is quickly catching up to it in regards to flexibility (its most likely surpassed it in library support, though that's debatable since at a guess over 40 percent of the Python libraries are C/C++ DLLs).@tmstuff000, please go write a memory allocator or a stable security infrastructure in your beloved C++ and you will find that it can become very, very difficult, and can become a very dangerous road if your not careful. I've never written either of these (memory allocator/security library) but know the pitfalls of manual memory allocation, memory security, and so on. Its not as wonderful as roses. In fact, it can get as dirty as a dumpster, and as dangerous as a battlefield that's extremely active. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414461/#p414461 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head I agree with Kai. I don't know why people code shame. If someone wants to start with BGT there's nothing wrong with that. If they want to move on later because they found some limitation they weren't comfortable with than that's cool too. At least they learned the basics of programming. Heck, how many of us started learning with Qbasic, Pascal, or Visual Basic? I would have absolutely loved to have had BGT around when I was just starting to learn programming.As for Python, I've never had any major issues that I couldn't find a fix or work around for. That's just the nature of any language. You're always going to find things that you would like to be different. That's the nature of anything really.I'm not saying it was always smooth sailing mind you. I've spent countless hours trying to track something down on Google to make things work. So I empathize with your pain. But I can say the same thing about BGT, C++, Swift, Lua, and any other language I've used in the past.The only right language is the one you get to work for your needs. Don't let people bother you about how you should be doing it there way because that's the popular thing. That's basically what the arguments for and against different languages boil down too. I have seen legit reasons people don't use BGT any more, but nothing that deserves the vitriol that some veterans have for it.I have gotten openAL to work for me in Python and that's what I use at the moment. That will probably change in the future, but right now it serves my needs.I put things in my own wrappers and call those functions in my main program so that if I want to use something else later on, I don't have to make major revisions to my main code.Coding might not be your thing. There's nothing wrong with that. There's much more to writing a program (especially games) than their coding. There might be another job as a developer that you enjoy doing more such as writing story elements or designing sound effects.Programmers are a dime a dozen. Good stories and sound libraries are not. In fact I paid quite a bit more than a dime for the sound library I use.Audio games are badly in need of good story tellers. There are almost no long form RPG's, and you can pretty much forget about finding one like Final Fantasy. A Heroes Call was a great achievement, and I am privilaged to have had the very small role in bringing it to life that I did, but the story was below average when you compare it to mainstream 50 to 100 hour epics.Even when talking about Action games, a great story can make the difference between a game you play and a game you remember.I know this reply wasn't super informative, but I hope it's uplifted you in some way. You're not the only one to want to toss a computer out the window. We all have this rant inside us from time to time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414459/#p414459 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head @2 Regarding indentation, its something you should be doing anyway, if you're not, then don't ever expect to contribute to any open source projects or really collaborate with any other sighted devs.@4 BGT is over, its done, its time to move on. Just two days ago I made a little thing for someone only to have it nuked as soon as it compiled by windows defender. So to work in it, you need a root BGT folder that's excluded from defender. Then you get into the fact of packaging your game. Do you really expect people to deal with that? It's not exactly intuitive to add exclusions to Defender, you could provide step by step instructions in your documentation, but again, it looks shoddy that you have to have them do that. Then you get into the limits of the language, and where people have hit those limits quite harshly. In the end, noone can make them stop using it, but its absurd that they continue to do so.@5 Well I usually hit snags with every language, so yeah its me, I just suck at coding and need to stop doing it, but I hit way more with Python than any other. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414457/#p414457 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Does python even have a head?I've been successfully using python for quite a few years now, and it's served most all my needs if not more. Aside from being hands down one of the easiest yet most functional languages out there, you can most likely find a myriad of documentation for basically anything. Getting an error? Google it and find an entry in stackoverflow, some github issue tracker, reddit, or all the above. If you think one of the easiest languages known to man is giving you trouble, please try c/c++. Once you figure everything at least works at a partial level, welcome buffer overflows/program has stopped responding/linker errors/inconsistencies/hours upon hours of unexpected development time. If your having these issues with a language of such simplicity, I can only conclude you've had little practical programming experience up until now. I've built pyaudio, wrote several extensions to and wrappers around pybass, and played with pyinstaller to a great degree. Your problem might be cross distro incompatibility, lack of hidden imports for unpopular modules, bad practices in your workflow, I mean it's really hard to tell without more specific information for debugging purposes.GUI programming is probably the only point I find myself agreeing with here, on the wx front at least. Great power unfortunately comes with great difficulty here, in fact more difficulty than is strictly necessary. You'll eventually find yourself getting into the swing of things, but it's understandable if pythonic logic doesn't fully cary over. This is why many mainstream developers find themselves using TK. It's builtin, easier, and just works for everyone aside from us with less than functional optic nerves. I don't know if your post was one of rage after a long day of errors or actual curiosity/wonder, but I highly recommend targeting your issues individually instead of wrapping them all up into a list of reasons for why the language is infuriatingly difficult. It really isn't. Then again I suppose that's on background.tmstuff000, no comment. Just, no comment. I wouldn't at all say python syntax is horrible, that's a complete matter of opinion. Like saying the zeros at the end of your name are horrible. I think they're unnecessary and overkill, but you might think the zeros are actually quite cool.Indentation is absolutely normal, even for most users of your beloved c++ and BGT. Also, the point about python specific need for an external module in order to freeze into executables is terribly invalid. Did you know the same rings true in c++? Check the GNU compiler collection, visual studio/microsoft compilers, clang, other less popular ones I'm probably forgetting. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414453/#p414453 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head My question is why do you feel the need to scream at people who want to use BGT? I see it as a bunch of people screaming at people that they should stop using a shovel to dig holes in the ground, demanding that they now embrace the excavator. Never mind that the excavator is cumbersome to set up, requires fuel, is expensive, etc, etc, and the shovel really still works fine for digging holes. I personally think it's a non issue what people want to use to code with. So they face incompatibility and lack of support, these are things they'll have to learn to be ok with, and if they're ok with it, then let them be.Kai URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414448/#p414448 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head For me indentation isn't an issue, though I am just learning Java, and I was taught to pay attention to indentation. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414446/#p414446 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head
Re: I Wanna Smack Python Upside the Head Yep, Python isn't always great. For one thing, you need an external module to compile Python in to .exe files. For another, it has horrible syntax and requires indentation. And then there's the thing you got into with it. I would use BGT or C++ instead.Best regardsT--m URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/414439/#p414439 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
