Re: MacBook
2020-07-21
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : BrendanGriesel1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook @22 & 23: Thanks. I think I will go with that then. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/554425/#p554425 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook That's solid. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/554033/#p554033 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
2020-07-20
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : giorgi elbaqidze via Audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook @17 1.1 ghz turboboost up to 3.5 ghz i5 10th gen processor is great choiss.as i know it comes with 512 gb ssd URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/554022/#p554022 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook uh ignatriay, i replyed, i think. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553715/#p553715 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
2020-07-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook yeah URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553712/#p553712 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook Quad-core means four, right? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553706/#p553706 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
2020-07-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook how many cores are in the prosessor? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553699/#p553699 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
2020-07-19
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : BrendanGriesel1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook So I've been shopping around, and it looks like I will be able to buy a macBook Air, however the only one that is available at the moment is the 13 inch 1.1GHZ quad-core. Now I don't know about you, but as far as I know a 1.1GHZ processor isn't very fast. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553697/#p553697 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook @ omer, replied to your pm. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553686/#p553686 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook what a shame forum mails wont workhey ignatriay, i sent you a pm... though saying like this makes it a little wierd... as well anyway URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553656/#p553656 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook It can be done with an air yes, but as you said, when your dealing with a lot of tracks... you can only do so much with air when working with a large number of tracks. I mean, if your just going to do basic audio editing, or don't do it full time and you don't work with a lot of tracks at once, the air is good. However if you do it full time and work everyday with a lot of tracks... Go for the pro. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553642/#p553642 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook It can be done with an air yes, but as you said, when your dealing with a lot of tracks... you can only do so much with air when working with a large number of tracks. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553642/#p553642 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook why do you recomend pro for audio editting, cant that be done with an air as well?maybe it wouldnt be fast as pro when the later stages maybe when working lot of tracks, but i'M a new mac user, so craving for experience, expecially sound editing whise URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553638/#p553638 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook It depends. What are you planning to use the macbook for. If audio editing / music producing, etc, I would say macbook pro. If its for something a little more lightweight, the macbook air. As a mac user, I agree;it does have its bugs, and yes; I would like said bugs to get fixed... But that's not to say mac is bad. And no; windows is not bugfree, either. Every OS always has bugs; whether miner annoyances or major pains in the ass. I think it depends; if your going to do audio editing / sound engineering, etc; macs are the way to go. If your more into programing though... windows.I've tried audio editing on windows, and yes; it can be done; however its much; much slower on windows than mac, in my opinion. Ferthermore, the OP was asking what mac would someone recommend, he never asked, or said; let's discuss what is good or bad in this o! that Os. What we need to keep in mind is, for some mac will work and be more than enough for their needs, for others not so. Same with windows, it will meet the needs of some, but not others. At the end it doesn't really come down to which OS is better; it is really a matter of personal preference, and opinion as to which is better. Yes, windows holds several advantages over mac in some areas, however the mac holds other advantages over windows in some areas; its really a matter of personal prefernce for each individual as to which OS fits their needs better. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553634/#p553634 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook It depends. What are you planning to use the macbook for. If audio editing / music producing, etc, I would say macbook pro. If its for something a little more lightweight, the macbook air. As a mac user, I agree;it does have its bugs, and yes; I would like said bugs to get fixed... But that's not to say mac is bad. And no; windows is not bugfree, either. Every OS always has bugs; whether miner annoyances or major pains in the ass. I think it depends; if your going to do audio editing / sound engineering, etc; macs are the way to go. If your more into programing though... windows.I've tried audio editing on windows, and yes; it can be done; however its much; much slower on windows than mac, in my opinion. Ferthermore, the OP was asking what mac would someone recommend, he never asked, or said; let's discuss what is good or bad in this o! that Os. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553634/#p553634 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook I don't know, but I only want a mac book for university reasons. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553601/#p553601 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook i bought an macbook air, its a decent book and i quite like it URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553472/#p553472 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
2020-07-18
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : BrendanGriesel1 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook Okay, I hear what all of you are saying, but if you had to recommend a Macbook, what would you recommend? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553467/#p553467 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook @6XCode is technically accessible but the navigation functionality in VO combined with the sheer amount of stuff in XCode shows us why the VO approach to navigation can't ever work well on complex things, the speech latency is a real issue when arrowing through code quickly, not being able to make the synth go fast means not being able to overcome the punctuation problem, speech things like "hash sign" and "less-than" instead of "number" and "less" make punctuation-heavy languages a real pain. And that's before we talk about non-xcode things like the weirdly broken terminal support and the web browsing inefficiency. You can get away with the web browsing inefficiency if you're not a programmer, but when 50% of your job is "google how thing x works" and another big chunk is "arrow past the noise quickly"...not so much. Suffice it to say there's a reason I've never done an iOS app, despite having owned a macbook and given mac a serious chance for a few months continuously in the hope that it was just me not knowing VO well enough or something.On Windows you can be as fast as a sighted programmer, or I am at least. I honestly don't think that's possible on mac. You can program on it, but probably never competitively. Whether that's enough depends on you I guess, but even a simple iPhone app is more than most of this site can handle, so don't be quick to assume it's enough. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553321/#p553321 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook I bought a Mac back in 2016 thinking it would offer me a better experience than Linux. I was wrong, and I regret that purchase to this day. The bugs I encountered in 2016 haven't been fixed, and now my Mac sits off to one side waiting for Apple to fix the problems that make it really annoying to use. If I were you, I would go with a good Windows laptop. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553317/#p553317 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook They say they've improved Xcode for Xcode 12 and MacOS Bir Sur, but I don't know if they're just rehashing the small improvements from last year or not. The big thing there is that the Playgrounds live execution will finally be accessible. I talked about the lack of that in one of my blog posts, so maybe I have some secret Investiture that not even I know about, which allows me to change things. Ah who am I kidding.I don't think I'd want to use Swift for putting out apps on the App Store, even if it finally has the secret formuoli that gets code across to me as more than "okay, print. Yeah, I get that. Wait, functions? Okay well how do you even arrive at this method of building this?" kind of thing. Even if I did learn Swift, I'd probably publish my app to AltStore or something, in protest of Apple not allowing console emulators on their App Store. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553316/#p553316 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook If you want to use Swift and the Swift playground you will need a macbook. However, do note that trying to code with VO long-term is a lost cause, because the inefficiencies in VO make it impossible for you to approach the effectiveness of a sighted dev. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553303/#p553303 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
2020-07-17
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Blind angel 444 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook Will that work with programming too? I’m learning how to use the Swift language with the Swift Playgrounds app and I will be needing a way to learn how to use Xcode. So you know a free and accessible way, please contact me through my pm. Thanks URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553289/#p553289 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook yeah. Suffice it to say that if you're a programmer it's effectively a good way to have a Windows laptop, nothing more. The only people who like it long term are the music people, and the music people I've known have usually described it as "It sucks, but logic and protools" and, well, that kind of speaks for itself. Also you can get the same hardware a lot cheaper for Windows. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553288/#p553288 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook
Re: MacBook Unless you have to use ProTools, I'd recommend that you take your mac Book money and spend it on a windows desktop or laptop.VoiceOver just hasn't kept up, so you'll end up boot camping the thing anyway and apple's bootcamp drivers are a hot mess that will shorten the lifespan of your hardware. The argument of you're buying superior hardware to run windows doesn't even hold water anymore, as apple's hardware quality has been on the decline since 2010.If you just want to experience mac OS and VoiceOver, then search off site for the instructions for creating a mac OS vm and play in that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/553277/#p553277 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations Just tried the steps in #26. Didn't work. Ah well.Emacspeak basically knows what it's doing, unlike all screen readers. Emacspeak looks at not only the system calls and such, but the actual buffer (file) that it's working with to get a sense of what's going on. Screen readers don't have that, just what the system tells them. And, Emacspeak expresses formatting info, through speech. Only Narrator can do that with minimal configuration, and JAWS can be made to do this with a lot of messing with sound schemes and such. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551397/#p551397 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @24 Could you elaborate on why you find Emacspeak better than any other screen reader, even those on windows? It seems like a huge amount of trouble to learn how Emacspeak works, + the additional overhead of trying to get it working on windows with Eloquence (assuming that's even possible). URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551330/#p551330 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I've noticed that as well... voiceover in pages in the mac... just no. Really hoping apple fixes these bugs... but it all depends on what you want to do and work with. I personally have mac and a windows vm as an alternate, so if something is better on windows, i'll do it on windows URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551328/#p551328 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @26: I'd be interested to find out how you can use Emacspeak on Windows. Particularly, how does it output speech? Through Sapi5? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551325/#p551325 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I've personally used both Mac and Windows and would consider myself proficient in both. Mac was new but usable until the VO bugs started piling up. Now, I am a million times more productive on Windows than I am on my Mac, especially in the word processing department. VO just doesn't play nice with pages anymore, which is a bit of a shame really. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/551322/#p551322 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I personally don't think they'll stop selling computers, but that's ^ujust me. For one, one cannot do audio editing, just as an example, quite as good on a ipad as on a mac; just to give one example. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550428/#p550428 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @28They're entirely separate codebases. They're not even running on the same processor architecture, at the moment. The underlying accessibility APIs are different. IPC is different. Tons of other things are different. You can't just take iOS voiceover and run it on Mac, or on the watch, or whatever.I expect that we will either see Apple announcing an iPad to Mac merger or that they're not going to be in the business of selling computers in the next 5 years. Me and most of my friends are astonished that that they still bother with desktop at all. But in either case it's not possible to just say that they can share VO across all their platforms. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550421/#p550421 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations Hopefully the long standing bugs get fixed... power reserve mode and automatic speaking of items... we'll see I guess. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550412/#p550412 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @38 just because they were not announced at the WWDC, does not mean they are not there. Many things, not just related to accessibility were not announced on WWDC. All I will say, but you probably know that from the Applevis interview as well, Watch is getting a pretty major accessibility upgrade. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550319/#p550319 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations Speaking of easpeak... Heard there is a version for mac but never got it to work. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550244/#p550244 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @21:Turning on rate boost also gives me that same effect as E-speak at rate 100 without rate boost. You know, the beginnings of words are sort of squished. Also, I absolutely hate whatever E-speak linux uses, don't know why people say it's better than NVDA's E-speak. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550242/#p550242 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations No ios yes, however all the other other apple devices... not so much. I mean, if they upgrade voiceover on ios, would make sence that mac would get the same upgrades / bug fixes... but apparently not. That's something I find odd though, why drop the ball on mac accessibility; mostly anyway; but on ios its still rolling? Defenetly weird. My statement that they didn't care about accessibility comes from the fact that both mac and ios or any other apple device, have voiceover, its one echosistem. With that point of view in mind, you cant just... advance some; or most; of them in accessibility and leave one hanging. Apple does to an extent about accessibility, however could it improove? Like any other thing out there, yes. The mac needs some major improvements in rejuards to voiceover. Speaking of which... Any of you say any accessibility features in wwdc this year? Granted there might be a reason as to why voiceover on the mac side of things only gets miner tweeks, but who knows. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550197/#p550197 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations No ios yes, however all the other other apple devices... not so much. I mean, if they upgrade voiceover on ios, would make sence that mac would get the same upgrades / bug fixes... but apparently not. That's something I find odd though, why drop the ball on mac accessibility; mostly anyway; but on ios its still rolling? Defenetly weird. My statement that they didn't care about accessibility comes from the fact that both mac and ios or any other apple device, have voiceover, its one echosistem. With that point of view in mind, you cant just... advance some; or most; of them in accessibility and leave one hanging. Apple does to an extent about accessibility, however could it improove? Like any other thing out there, yes. The mac needs some major improvements in rejuards to voiceover. Speaking of which... Any of you say any accessibility features in wwdc this year? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550197/#p550197 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations Well, there goes my excuse for not using that. I... Uh... Um... Yeah... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550089/#p550089 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations Speaking of EMacs and EMacspeak...For those who would like to use it on Windows, you can do so by grabbing the latest version (based on Emacspeak 45.0 IdealDog) by visiting http://emacspeakwin.sf.net/, then replace that version with the latest, (which is 52.0 Work At Home Dog), by grabbing that from https://tvraman.github.io/emacspeak/blo … CE-52.htmlQuoting from TVRaman on Twitter on the 7th of July 2020:‘Emacspeak 52 from Github should work with the speech server in the Windows emacspeak port -- the TTS API has not changed in a long time.” URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550028/#p550028 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations Right. I really need to get onto listening to faster stuff. I kind of got comfortable and stopped pushing myself, but rate 80 boosted is difficult to understand. Again, thank you for the responses. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/550022/#p550022 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations *Brings out the pitchforks. The Invested pitchforks. Shardforks? Can I eat pancakes with that? Be glad I don't have Nightblood. Ah, no one gets these references*For programming and markdown and markup and mark... something, I use Emacs with Emacspeak. My Mac is my main computer. I just do gaming and Discord on my Windows computer, because no screen reader, besides possibly Narrator in a few years, can equal Emacspeak, but I'm not running Linux, with its rather bad accessibility, just for that when I have a Mac with a great Mail client... well unless I'm listening to the email and the screen locks because the Mac doesn't check to see if VOICEOVER is speaking before it locks... Yeah it's very frustrating sometimes. But there is a guy from Apple accessibility on Twitter, not going to give his twitter name because if you know about him, you know about him. He's very open to feedback, so during this public beta season I'll definitely give him all the feedback I can regarding MacOS, and see what Apple does with it. I'm... slightly hopeful, but also I'm the most cynical person on the forum, so I just *know* nothing much will change because "what? Blind people use a computer? Nahhh, they're all consumers, they just watch Netflix and get their BARD Mobile book stuff and play Dice World. What? Blind people code too?"Speaking of Xcode, the Playgrounds part of it will be accessible in MacOS 11 and Xcode 12. Or 13. Or 16. Or whatever the latest Xcode is, storm it. That's really great for me, because it means that I can do the Everyone can Code thing that Apple provides. Also, the recognition thing that iOS will have is also coming to Mac.Of course, we had to get this from the Applevis interview with Apple's accessibility folks, because "what? You mean we, Apple, the Sliver of Infinity, should put all of our accessibility updates for each and every one of our over nine thousand operating systems and services and apps and frameworks and and and... on our what's new page?" So that's great too. And you know they didn't talk about *everything*. Nope, they just have to leave things for us to find, or not find until like years later. Ugh!But about learning the Mac, really it takes a long while of constant practice and trying to envision an interface in a different way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549966/#p549966 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @22If you're saying you're at 75 rate boosted, that's where most people stop. If you're saying 75 normal, do what I suggested earlier and increase it by 1% to 5% a week and just force yourself to deal. How long it will take depends on you.It's really really worth it to do this. You can get on par with, or sometimes even faster than, a sighted person. Despite not being able to use a mouse and having to tab through everything, etc. And if you go into programming it makes all the punctuation you have to listen to way less of a problem as well. It can outdo braille by orders of magnitude, in other words. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549960/#p549960 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations LOL. I'm like a sighted person when it comes to rate boosted espeak. It just sounds like blabber to me lol. I'm currently sitting at 75, I should really increase it however, URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549957/#p549957 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @20Turn rate boost on, if it's NVDA. That will probably help a little bit. Then turn inflection all the way up. That helps a little bit more.My Espeak doesn't sound weird at 100 with rate boost off. With rate boost on it definitely does, but rate boost on at 100 is around 1500 words a minute and I'm the only person I know to be able to go above rate boosted 80%, so I'm assuming that you're not trying for that. But maybe you are, in which case Eloquence goes weirder and really you're just not going to find a synth that can do it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549950/#p549950 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations UMm, guys,Speaking of running TTS on high-speeds, does anyone knows why E-speak get's weirder when we reach 100 in the speach-rate settings. I am always increasing the speeds of my TTS as I get comfirtable with the current speed, but the way E-speak starts speaking at rate 100 just bugs me. I can go way beyond with other TTS such as Eloquence, but E-speak is my favorite and somehow I can't increase the speed beyond 99. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549941/#p549941 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations yeah windows an android for life. unrelated but what is the best screen reader for android i have talkback but is their anything better URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549885/#p549885 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I want to say this started back in 2012. Lion was the last version of the system to receive significant updates to VoiceOver. Everything since then has been minor tweaking. I've heard they've been improving the VoiceOver experience with Xcode over the past couple of years, but I can't speak on this as I'm not a developer. It's a shame, because there's a lot of great potential that's simply not being realized and/or expanded upon.If the issue is simply not being comfortable with using the screen reader, I encourage you to sit down and use it for a while. Resist the temptation to go back to NVDA if you can't do something or don't find it as efficient. I agree VoiceOver has its shortcomings, but I genuinely enjoyed using it for quite a long time. Remember that you can also access the built-in tutorial and the online user guide by pressing VO+h.As for Apple not caring about accessibility, I'm going to have to say this is absolutely false. Look at the improvements made year after year to iOS. VoiceOver on iOS is a very good product. I suspect the issue is a lack of priority on macOS. Maybe they don't have enough people to work on features for both systems at the same time, or much more likely, someone somewhere is deciding that iOS takes priority because it's the more popular product line. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549884/#p549884 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I want to say this started back in 2012. Lion was the last version of the system to receive significant updates to VoiceOver. Everything since then has been minor tweaking. I've heard they've been improving the VoiceOver experience with Xcode over the past couple of years, but I can't speak on this as I'm not a developer. It's a shame, because there's a lot of great potential that's simply not being realized and/or expanded upon.If the issue is simply not being comfortable with using the screen reader, I encourage you to sit down and use it for a while. Resist the temptation to go back to NVDA if you can't do something or don't find it as efficient. I agree VoiceOver has its shortcomings, but I genuinely enjoyed using it for quite a long time. Remember that you can also access the built-in tutorial and the online user guide by pressing VO+h.As for Apple not caring about accessibility, I'm going to have to say this is absolutely false. Look at the improvements made year after year to iOS. VoiceOver on iOS is a very good product. I suspect the issue is a lack of priority on macOS. Maybe they don't have enough people to work on features for both systems at the same time, or maybe and much more liekly, someone somewhere is deciding that iOS takes priority because it's the more popular product line. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549884/#p549884 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I want to say this started back in 2012. Lion was the last version of the system to receive significant updates to VoiceOver. Everything since then has been minor tweaking. I've heard they've been improving the VoiceOver experience with Xcode over the past couple of years, but I can't speak on this as I'm not a developer. It's a shame, because there's a lot of great potential that's simply not being realized and/or expanded upon.If the issue is simply not being comfortable with using the screen reader, I encourage you to sit down and use it for a while. Resist the temptation to go back to NVDA if you can't do something or don't find it as efficient. I agree VoiceOver has its shortcomings, but I genuinely enjoy using it for quite a long time. Remember that you can also access the built-in tutorial and the online user guide by pressing VO+h.As for Apple not caring about accessibility, I'm going to have to say this is absolutely false. Look at the improvements made year after year to iOS. VoiceOver on iOS is a very good product. I suspect the issue is a lack of priority on macOS. Maybe they don't have enough people to work on features for both systems at the same time, or maybe and much more liekly, someone somewhere is deciding that iOS takes priority because it's the more popular product line. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549884/#p549884 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations When I meant I wasn't sure how accessible it would be, I meant I wasn't sure where you could get softsynths on the internet and where to go to find them. I knew about Osarra the accessible NVDA plugin but I didn't know where to get accessible softsynths for it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549880/#p549880 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations Hello. As a audio producer and engineer as well as tech specialist working for an organisation in Canada, I have to say that I did use CakeTalking for Sonar on windows with JAWS for many, many years, but then when my windows 7 machine went obsolete I took a look at Reaper to see if it would work. It did and still does have potential considering that it is cheap, but the thing that was lacking in it was softsynths like piano, drums, bass. Although you could get those online, I wasn't sure how accessible they would be so I thought i'd use a mac and use it for audio production using Logic Pro X and email and things and windows for productivity things like writing documents and playing games. Also, the mac did use to have a third party screen reading software, called Outspoken for the mac which was the only one they had and it turned into Voice Over. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549879/#p549879 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations Hi.Well it seems like I dodged a bullet. About 2 years ago I was going to get a Macintosh computer, but then the bank gave me this one for free, and we just didn't bother. Heheh. Imagine spending 7K on a Mac only to realise its not accessible. Well at least no viruses. But then again, no audiogames, NVDA, etc etc. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549857/#p549857 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations That's the thing, I have my speech on the Mac all the way up. I often use braille for editing Markdown documents, and braille on the Mac can't keep up. When I go to route my cursur to a character, sometimes the focus jumps to the top or bottom of the file. Every once in a while, it will land 4 or 5 lines off of where the character is. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549838/#p549838 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @12I was expecting pitchforks here. Give it time, and they'll probably show up.It sounds like you have perhaps not trained yourself to fast synths. You might consider doing that. The procedure is very simple: commit, once a week, to turning it up to as fast as you can stand, then push just one notch beyond that, and commit to never turning it back down. Can get upwards of 800 words a minute. Most programmers I know have done this.It's a very effective way to hate Mac, and also to start hating iOS a little bit, when the max settings on the speed dial for anything but espeak and eloquence are lower than your normal listening speed and also you can't go that fast anyway because it sounds drunk well before you've maxed it out. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549821/#p549821 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I bought a mac back in 2016 because I thought I would get a really accessible computer after running Linux for several years. At first, it worked really well; I encountered a few bugs, but it was okay. As each version came out, I upgraded and bugs went unfixed, and several new ones showed up. The main ones for me are the many bugs with braille support. Braille doesn't always follow the speech, and sometimes, my display disconnects entirely!I still have my Mac, but I don't use it much. I got a Windows desktop for Christmas, and I haven't looked back. I am thinking of putting Windows on my Mac. My advice to any blind person looking at a Mac is, run. Stay with Windows; you will have a better experience. Also, if you mention how bad the Mac is over on AppleVis, they bring out the pitchforks. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549813/#p549813 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations When I see these X company does not care about accessibility posts, it is really silly. If they did not care, we would be unable to use an iPhone, an Android device or a computer. How high it is on their priorities list is a different story. However, voiceover is improved with almost every iOS release, so not sure what you are on about there. Mac is however a different story. I do not plan to buy a watch so can't comment on that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549812/#p549812 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations While I love my mac... Shame on apple dropping the ball on accessibility. I mean, yeah voiceover does gets updated once or more every year, but its just miner. And no, its not just on mac os. Apple watch, and ios have the same problem. And yet they clame... Oh we care about accessibility... their actions speak louder than their words. They care, but just a tad bit. If they really, really; cared as much as they say they do, voiceover would be their top or close, to their top priority. But yes we're a minority so who gives a fuck? Sirtainly not apple. Or microsoft. Or google. They have done great things, no doubt about that, but they half ass stuff. Its like, oh, mac now has a screenreader... fuck it, let's drop the ball here, fuck it. Don't get me wrong, mac is great, at least for my needs as a sound designer and music composer / producer, but its a shame on apple for not caring enough about accessibility as they should. Fuck, there is the problem in the applewatch... put it in power reserve mode... you cannot use your watch, not even to check the time. Or how about... you have autospeak enabled for ay, battery, on your watch face. Power your watch off and back on... and your previously autospeak enabled items will be disabled, making you have to reenable them again. And guess what? Thiese bugs, miner though they are; have been around for years. Yes, years. Whenever any company says they care about accessibility and don't show it, or halfass stuff... I always laugh. Care? That's, uh, not caring as you say it is. Its just... falce claims to appease people, and making them feel, oh yes, we care, etc, etc. I've seen this behavior over and over again, and no, not just from apple microsoft and google. I've seen it everywhere, with a lot of companies. I've written, and written; and absolutely nothing comes of it, even though i'm not the only one who writes. But then again, big corporate companies are only after one thing; money. Bnd since we disabled are a minority, of course they'll only do something halfassed. And before someone says that i'm acting entitled... Voiceover,, and other screenreaders and companies, while great, just do the least when it comes to it. They say they care, but then... Why isn't say, voicover improved on mac and ios and apple watch, etc? Keep it in mind, almost every company is like this. Its sad and infuriating yes, but... it is how it is. The point i'm gettig at is that accessibility could be improved, just because say, something works and you fix the occasional bug and update accessibility a couple times a year, doesn't mean things cannot be improved or that they are perfect, but I digress. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549809/#p549809 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations While I love my mac... Shame on apple dropping the ball on accessibility. I mean, yeah voiceover does gets updated once or more every year, but its just miner. And no, its not just on mac os. Apple watch, and ios have the same problem. And yet they clame... Oh we care about accessibility... their actions speak louder than their words. They care, but just a tad bit. If they really, really; cared as much as they say they do, voiceover would be their top or close, to their top priority. But yes we're a minority so who gives a fuck? Sirtainly not apple. Or microsoft. Or google. They have done great things, no doubt about that, but they half ass stuff. Its like, oh, mac now has a screenreader... fuck it, let's drop the ball here, fuck it. Don't get me wrong, mac is great, at least for my needs as a sound designer and music composer / producer, but its a shame on apple for not caring enough about accessibility as they should. Fuck, there is the problem in the applewatch... put it in power reserve mode... you cannot use your watch, not even to check the time. Or how about... you have autospeak enabled for ay, battery, on your watch face. Power your watch off and back on... and your previously autospeak enabled items will be disabled, making you have to reenable them again. And guess what? Thiese bugs, miner though they are; have been around for years. Yes, years. Whenever any company says they care about accessibility and don't show it, or halfass stuff... I always laugh. Care? That's, uh, not caring as you say it is. Its just... falce claims to appease people, and making them feel, oh yes, we care, etc, etc. I've seen this behavior over and over again, and no, not just from apple microsoft and google. I've seen it everywhere, with a lot of companies. I've written, and written; and absolutely nothing comes of it, even though i'm not the only one who writes. But then again, big corporate companies are only after one thing; money. Bnd since we disabled are a minority, of course they'll only do something halfassed. And before someone says that i'm acting entitled... Voiceover,, and other screenreaders and companies, while great, just do the least when it comes to it. They say they care, but then... Why isn't say, voicover improved on mac and ios and apple watch, etc? Keep it in mind, almost every company is like this. Its sad and infuriating yes, but... it is how it is. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549809/#p549809 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @8It will probably kill X86 bootcamp. But there's a chance--a small one--that Arm bootcamp could become a thing. The way Microsoft and Apple are tackling the X86 to Arm migration is via X86 to Arm translators, but that's probably never going to be good enough to run a fundamentally X86 OS on. But more to the point, I don't think Bootcamp makes sense to the sighted consumer anymore. You can just run a VM, these days, and Apple doesn't need to sell itself like it used to with respect to "if you go Apple all your old stuff runs".Apple already makes custom chips for iOS, in the same sense as they mean here. The way Arm works overall is that you license the blueprints from whoever has them now--I think SoftBank, which ironically is a bank, not a software company--improve on them if you want, and contract someone to make it for you. Arm is specifically designed to be sort of an expansion pack architecture, pick some instruction set extensions, choose from this list of trade-offs, etc. There's some other more niche ones that are even moreso, but in terms of mainstream stuff Arm wins. Apple is big enough that bringing semiconductor manufacturing in-house might make sense for them now, but usually what's being talked about here is outsourcing the actual manufacturing step to someone who has the factories. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549789/#p549789 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations Bootcamp is good yes. But I, don't like my mac at all for the reasons @3 listed. Sticking to ios and windows.I'm curious. Will this new processor thing that apple is going to put into their macs kill bootcamp?Okay I'm not even sure if this apple silicon thing is gonna exist or exists. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549785/#p549785 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations Bootcamp is good yes. But I, don't like my mac at all for the reasons @3 listed. Sticking to ios and windows. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549785/#p549785 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @6My plan for if I ever cared enough to do this is to use something like Dart or React Native and SSh the Mac like it's a Linux server. Can mostly avoid VO that way. Mostly. If it all goes right. But not worth $2000 or so for me to try it and I haven't had my old macbook since 2016 or so(plus it's from 2013 so...yeah, good luck building on that).Frankly: you're probably not quite at the point where you can do this. Doing it will almost certainly require a bunch of stuff like your podsixnet question where the answer is "read the source" except harder. I believe it to be technically possible, in other words, and if someone documented the workflow and reverse engineered the stuff it is almost certainly possible to reproduce whatever it is you did to make it efficient. But...well. Someone would have to pay me, if I was the one who was going to try, there's no joy in it at that point, for lack of a better way to put it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549720/#p549720 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I didn’t buy a Mac, I just bootcamped windows on it for the longest time possible. Figured I would try to use the other side of the coin, if you will. I understand the concept for groups and interacting with them, and I think that is a really neat idea, there’s just so much to remember in order to have semi-comfortable experience with using the machine. The quick navigation works, but it only gets rid of three or four shortcuts by default, which in the long term doesn’t really help. I tried to get into this because of everything I find on the Internet pointing to Mac if I want to build for iOS. React is for Mac, Xcode is for mac, etc. It is understandable, I want to build an application for iOS, thus I must use Apple OS, but still. I figured it would be a longshot anyways, but thank you for the responses regardless. I am just happy that, like I said, I didn’t specifically buy a Mac for the purpose of using it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549717/#p549717 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @4The possibility to create a screen reader exists. But it's not documented anywhere I can find. There's Voiceover, and then there's one library I forget the name of which can be used for automated UI testing that's licensed commercially, and that's it. The information needed is "If you reverse engineer hard enough..." sorts of things, in that you're not stopped technically. Ironically, if we did have the information, it would probably take ten times less effort than NVDA for a variety of complicated reasons that basically boil down to Apple having forced a bunch of people to do things right through control of the platform for a long time.The Arm thing isn't a big deal. Windows is slowly going the same way. NVDA runs on Arm Windows now, I believe. Microsoft doesn't control enough of the hardware to just say "Haha no more x86" for a very long time, but Arm is actually a much better architecture overall for the things the home consumer cares about, and also for many datacenter applications as well. X86 is really just overall a power hog, and the only major advantage it has is for certain kinds of number crunching (but, for complicated reasons, this gap can be closed which is what Apple is probably planning to do, and since 3-4 years ago if you're doing enough number crunching that X86 vs Arm matters you're probably actually just shrugging and using a GPU instead). TEhe Raspberry Pi is catching up to laptops surprisingly quickly.I actually think Apple is by far superior to Windows, if they hadn't taken a "Huh, this beta-quality screen reader prototype is cool isn't it?" as their accessibility approach I'd probably be using it. But, well. They did. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549714/#p549714 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I have to agree with post 3. I love macOS and VoiceOver, but the fact Apple refuses to fix the product or improve it in any meaningful way pisses me off and drives me away from the platform.Interaction is a really cool idea. It allows you to skip potentially large amounts of elements while traversing the interface. For example, you can zip right past a toolbar without having to go through all its controls, or skip a huge list of messages in an email or chat program. Think of interaction as NVDA object navigation reversed. Rather than going from a specific point and working your way out to larger and larger groups, you're doing the exact opposite.I always thought the possibility to create a screen reader in macOS existed, but no one wanted to do it because it wouldn't be worth the effort. I don't like Apple's transition to ARM on the desktop at all! Say goodbye to running other operating systems natively, and let Apple tell you when the machine is obsolete. I don't hold out too much hope for VoiceOver improvements either. It's clear iOS is the future, and if they honestly want to make writing iOS apps more accessible, they either need to seriously improve accessibility on the desktop or port Xcode and all the other development tools to iOS. I miss Mac OS X Snow Leopard. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549708/#p549708 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I have to agree with post 3. I love macOS and VoiceOver, but the fact Apple refuses to fix the product or improve it in any meaningful way pisses me off and drives me away from the platform.Interaction is a really cool idea. It allows you to skip potentially large amounts of elements while traversing the interface. For example, you can zip right past a toolbar without having to go through all its controls, or skip a huge list of messages in an email or chat program. Think of interaction as NVDA object navigation reversed. Rather than going from a specific point and working your way out to larger and larger groups, you're doing the exact opposite.I always thought the possibility to create a screen reader in macOS existed, but no one wanted to do it because it wouldn't be worth the effort. I don't like Apple's transition to ARM on the desktop at all! Say goodbye to running other operating systems natively, and let Apple tell you when the machine is obsolete. I don't hold out too much hope for VoiceOver improvements either. It's clear iOS is the future, and if they honestly want to make writing iOS apps more accessible, they're either need to seriously improve accessibility on the desktop or port Xcode and all the other development tools to iOS. I miss Mac OS X Snow Leopard. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549708/#p549708 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I have to agree with post 3. I love macOS and VoiceOver, but the fact Apple refuses to fix the product or improve it in any meaningful way pisses me off and drives me away from the platform.Interaction is a really cool idea. It allows you to skip potentially large amounts of elements while traversing the interface. For example, you can zip right past a toolbar without having to go through all its controls, or skip a huge list of messages in an email or chat program. Think of interaction as NVDA object navigation reversed. Rather than going from a specific point and working your way out to larger and larger groups, you're doing the exact opposite.I always thought the possibility to create a screen reader in macOS existed, but no one wanted to do it because it wouldn't be worth the effort. I don't like Apple's transition to ARM on the desktop at all! Say goodbye to running other operating systems natively, and let Apple tell you when the machine is obsolete. I don't hold out too much hope for VoiceOver imporvements either. It's clear iOS is the future, and if they honestly want to make writing iOS apps more accessible, they're either need to seriously improve accessibility on the desktop or port Xcode and all the other development tools to iOS. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549708/#p549708 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations I have to agree with post 3. I love macOS and VoiceOver, but the fact Apple refuses to fix thep roduct or improve it in any meaningful way drives me away from the platform.Interaction is a really cool idea. It allows you to skip potentially large amounts of elements while traversing the interface. For example, you can zip right past a toolbar without having to go through all its controls, or skip a huge list of messages in an email or chat program. Think of interaction as NVDA object navigation reversed. Rather than going from a specific point and working your way out to larger and larger groups, you're doing the exact opposite.I always thought the possibility to create a screen reader in macOS existed, but no one wanted to do it because it wouldn't be worth the effort. I don't like Apple's transition to ARM on the desktop at all! Say goodbye to running other operating systems natively, and let Apple tell you when the machine is obsolete. I don't hold out too much hope for VoiceOver imporvements either. It's clear iOS is the future, and if they honestly want to make writing iOS apps more accessible, they're either need to seriously improve accessibility on the desktop or port Xcode and all the other development tools to iOS. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549708/#p549708 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations @1You're going to get two sorts of answers here for the most part. The first sort of answer is going to be the people saying it's great, but then it turns out they never did stuff like learn to run their synth fast, are doing music, or are primarily content consumers as opposed to content producers. Occasionally you find a blind programmer with the patience for it, but even apart from the speech latency, they do too much stupid stuff like say punctuation in the longest long form possible.The other sort of answer is going to be that you can't. Sorry. If you'd asked me first I'd have told you that. I bought a macbook for the same reasons as you in college. Ran into the same frustrations. Went "well of course, it's a new screen reader, what do I expect?" Gave it 6 months. Gave up because after that even basic text editing latency in class was still weighing on me. Turned it into a pretty good Windows laptop with Bootcamp and never looked back.VO on iOS is actually really good. VO on desktop is full of half-finished ideas, like "We play sounds for control types" but not "In parallel with speech". VO on desktop, last I checked, can barely be used for mudding because it doesn't know how to queue announcements in the terminal. I couldn't even get it to read gcc errors reliably because gcc would pause sometimes. Perhaps they've fixed this specific bug. I hope so. But as far as I know they don't even have an equivalent of NVDA's simplified object navigation despite making you use it everywhere.I have a friend who used to program at Microsoft and who does a lot of music, who went Mac because he got tired of dealing with Windows and didn't program much anymore. He finally returned to Windows not too long ago because they broke Mac Pro audio drivers for a lot of people with no fix in sight, but even before that and despite him liking the platform more than Windows, he couldn't really make excuses for this stuff and if I recall he still used a Windows VM for what programming he did. I also know someone else who had to deal with it, who got lower speech latency out of running Eloquence in a VM and hacking Voiceover into talking to it over a TCP socket somehow, not that this was legal (though to be honest I'm pretty sure it's publicly distributed).Let me put it more simply: on Mac, you get TDSR for a good terminal experience, because VO dropped the ball so hard that blind people maintaining their own terminal-specific screen reader was the only option. TDSr has been going for 3 or 4 years at this point.If you're wondering, yes, I'm mad about this in general. There's nothing like every single step on the way from nothing to an iOS app being technically accessible while having the whole process literally take 10 times longer than it should to demonstrate the whole thing about accessible versus usable, blind people have been complaining about this very loudly for years, and Apple has done nothing. I've been told by people who probably know what they're talking about that there's some sort of internal politics in the way of getting the speech latency problem fixed at least, but even so--and the worst part of that is, the person I know who did the Eloquence in a VM thing discovered that a bunch of that latency is literally in the API to ask for speech to happen, not the speech driver itself.So here we are. But at least you have a nice Windows laptop, for as long as Bootcamp lasts.Apple is why many of us fear the day Microsoft decides that third party screen readers on Windows will no longer be allowed, should that day ever come. Mac never got one. Voiceover used to be good. Then Apple dropped the ball and never picked it up again, somewhere around 7 or 8 years ago, and efficiency went through the floor. And here we are: no alternative, no fixes in sight, we don't even have all the documentation we'd need to write a screen reader assuming that we could get the resources together. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549698/#p549698 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations This answer will very from person to person, but here is mine. I use mac by using a combination of trackpad commander / keyboard commands. If you have a ios device and assuming your macbook is a laptop; hold down voiceover keys, control plus option, or capslock; depending on what you have it set to; then do a two finger rotate clockwise on the trackpad, just like the rotor gesture in ios. This will activate the trackpad commander. Then, pritty much 95 percent of the gestures are the same ones found in ios. Or, if you just want to navigate using the keyboard, vo plus arrow keys, or if you press the left and right arrow keys at once, this will enable / disable quicknav, which means, when it ii on, you don't need to hold the voiceover keys to move with the arrow keys. Also, if you want it to behave more like windows, press voiceover keys plus q, and you should hear, single key navigation on or off, leave this on so you can navigate to elements by pressing keys on your keyboard just like in windows. Also, what you are talking about, vo plus command plus shift plus down / up arrows, those are used to interact with items, however you can disable this if you go into voiceover utility, go into navigation, and move right until you hear, grouping behavior next to which there will be a popup, its set to standard by default, you can change this to, ignore groups. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549684/#p549684 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations This answer will very from person to person, but here is mine. I use mac by using a combination of trackpad commander / keyboard commands. If you have a ios device and assuming your macbook is a laptop; hold down voiceover keys, control plus option, or capslock; depending on what you have it set to; then do a two finger rotate clockwise on the trackpad, just like the rotor gesture in ios. This will activate the trackpad commander. Then, pritty much 95 percent of the gestures are the same ones found in ios. Or, if you just want to navigate using the keyboard, vo plus arrow keys, or if you press the left and right arrow keys at once, this will enable / disable quicknav, which means, when it ii on, you don't need to hold the voiceover keys to move with the arrow keys. Also, if you want it to behave more like windows, press voiceover keys plus q, and you should hear, single key navigation on or off, leave this on so you can navigate to elements by pressing keys on your keyboard just like in windows. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549684/#p549684 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook frustrations
Re: MacBook frustrations This answer will very from person to serson, but here is mine. I use mac by using a combination of trackpad commander / keyboard commands. If you have a ios device and assumming your macbook is a laptop; hold down voiceover keys, control plus option, or capslock; depending on what you have it set to; then do a two finger rotate clockwise on the trackpad, just like the rotor gesture in ios. This will activate the trackpad commander. Then, pritty much 95 percent of the gestures are the same ones found in ios. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/549684/#p549684 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) For Sale in the UK
Re: MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) For Sale in the UK 1. Good question, and I don't think there is, except by the cursor method. You'll have to switch to group mode if you want to avoid examining everything in detail by default, but that applies to all objects, not just links. See Web category in VoiceOver Utility.2. Hmm. Do you have cursor tracking on (VO-Shift-F3)? In VO Utility under Navigation, make sure insertion point, VO cursor and the keyboard focus are all tracking each other. You might also benefit from interacting with the text field prior to moving in it, so VO moves with the caret while you navigate without the VO keys (I'd actually consider this last a bug). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250835#p250835 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) For Sale in the UK
Re: MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) For Sale in the UK Well I'm continuing to slowly blunder along and learn OS X, and have two more dumb questions for the time being.1. Is there any way to navigate in Safari like you would with NVDA, I.E. multiple links being listed on the same line as opposed to having to navigate through all of them? I know you're supposed to be able to up and down arrow through web pages, but when I do that, especially on sites like Reddit VO seems to miss things and get stuck.2. It seems sometimes that the VO cursor and system cursor are in different places at once, making for some confusion when I'm tabbing and shift-tabbing. Any quick workaround for this, or am I doing something wrong? URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250549#p250549 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) For Sale in the UK
Re: MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) For Sale in the UK FYI, the MacBook was sold. Sale closed ( but not the topic ). URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=250438#p250438 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) For Sale in the UK
Re: MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) For Sale in the UK Hey sebby. I know i'm not in the UK, but i still have a general question, as this thread reminded me. Would i notice much performence difference between my 2015 11 macbook air with i5 and 128 SSD, and a pro retina? I don't use heavy applications, only because i can't think of anything very processor intensive Is there much difference in startup time for example, is web browsing noticeably faster? Just curious, and sorry if i hijacked your thread. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=249534#p249534 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) For Sale in the UK
Re: MacBook Pro (Mid 2014) For Sale in the UK Hey Arq. No problem about the hijacking: I like talking about Macs. And you reminded me of another point which I'll mention. But first ...Nah, I doubt you'd experience any difference worth talking about while just doing everyday things. In fact, if stamina is the primary objective, then the lower power consumption of a MacBook Air is decidedly favourable. Really the MacBook Pro comes into its own while doing virtualisation, or when running multithreaded or multiprocess applications like encoders. And of course, more memory and CPU cores helps when you are doing more things in parallel, which would now include Safari plug-ins. But nah, really, you'll know when you need a quad-core processor on a Mac.And I will now add what I should have said at the top: this MacBook Pro is the last model that will run Windows 7, for those that really, really care to keep u sing that OS until 2020. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=249539#p249539 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Macbook pro and a problem.
Re: Macbook pro and a problem. Hi.I mean taking it out.Sorry if that wasnt clear. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=200039#p200039 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Macbook pro and a problem.
Re: Macbook pro and a problem. You probably need to install or reinstall the bootcamp support software. Specifically which version is required depends on your mac, and you should have these files somewhere if you went through the bootcamp assistant and let it download them. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=200078#p200078 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Macbook pro and a problem.
Re: Macbook pro and a problem. You can eject it. Just go to the computer icon, right click the drive, and hit J. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=200086#p200086 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Macbook pro and a problem.
Re: Macbook pro and a problem. Do you mean getting the CD out or putting it in? Because to put it in you just insert it into the slot and push slowly until it grabs it, at least on my 2012. Not sure if they switched to a retracting drive, but I doubt it. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=200018#p200018 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
