Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books The answer to all your musings is literally RAFO> Read and find out.Seriously, Robert Jordan answers virtually everything you have asked, and none of it has really been much of a mystery for, I'd say about two decades now. We know exactly how and why the Aiel changed. We know exactly why the Aiel believe they failed, and why they hate the people of Cairhien. We know why they don't just tell everyone the truth, and we know what happens if we do tell people the truth. Just...seriously, read and find out. It's all there. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/594625/#p594625 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-12-01
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books ok, something happened with mat in that world beyond the twisted red dor mirror tarangrial. I know that there is a war between the foxes and the snakes for whatever reason. But I am curious why couldn't people bring iron tools or music instruments with them, and also what was the agreement? and why was it made? I wander if the once with the horn can be connected to this world or even better if this pocket universe is somehow out of the patteern of the wheel? it may as well be beyond even talairan riod. May be those snakes and foxes are just enhabitents of the world of dreams, or who knows? The possibilities are endless. I like it . Blood and flaming forsaken souls! It may even be that they made the travel stones. It's crazy , I know. I really want to find out why would such beings make pacts with man? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/594583/#p594583 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-12-01
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books going to read ome more I think I have tuns of questions really. ` URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/594384/#p594384 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-11-30
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books here we go again in this universe of which we can say many things. I am even asking myself right this second why isn't this topic bigger?but it will be! O ! It will be soon.Now we shift to Rhuidean where Mat and Rand have to discover ich of them in turn something through terangrials. For Mat we know the thing with the foxes and stuf , I have questions and speculations on them too, but later. Now I want to know what is this talk about the true Aiel (Jen Aiel)?Why are they called that ? Are the true Aiel just a derivation of the original Jen aiel? I think that after the breaking something happened with the original aiel. They died out or something. But that begs the question, why don't modern aiel folow the way of the leaf? What made there civilizational structure and way of life change? why do only the wise once enter in to the city?Wouldn't it be natural for everyone who is an Aiel to know their history?May be not because then there will be a split in the culuture. On one had there can be those aiel who folow pacifism, and there could be those warrior aiel with their clan chifs. The modern Aiel remind me of samurai lol!it's kind of interesting if you think about it. quite ingenious too.That thing with defeating your oponent without touching them it's ausome. Yap!will we learn more about the artefacts from the cityes?and why the flaming dragon mount were the Aiel trusted to move the artefacts from the towerI can assume that they would have been destroyed by the breaking or lost, but nothig says that the breaking destroyed artefacts, not those that were guarded, anyways?. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/594211/#p594211 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-11-12
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books 9 rings for mman 7 for the ai'sedai in the flaming tower1 for the dark one in his twisted worldone ring to rule them allthe dragon shall guide themone ring to break them allto tarmain gaidon send themthe one ring to shape the turning of the wheelas the winds forge the tidings of the last dream where the memoryes of time bleed from the sword that can not be brokenmay the gates of moria hold the dark friends for our atack has been compromisedoh, and yeah I found thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDmp6hD3M8g URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/589116/#p589116 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Targor, interesting, in the English version of Memory sorrow and thorn, the god is Aedon, which is pronounced like ay don, since in old English the AE made an ay sound. I'll have to ask my lady (who lived in Germany for 17 years and is Bilingual in German), whether the different spelling changes the pronunciation. in shadowmarch, yes, the sir name of Barrik and Briony is Eddon, which (if I remember the audiobook correctly), is pronounced like the last part of the word Armageddon, which of course is virtually what happens in Shadowmarch . I hope you find an audio version of the Burning man kicking around somewhere, it's not %100 necessary to enjoy the story, but it's a nice nsight into things. There is also the otherland sequel story, the happiest dead boy in the world, which appears in legends volume 2, and tells you both what Orlando and Sam get up to following the end of the grail network's control of Otherland, and how the network itself changes without the Other's influence.I'm told that one has recently been rereleased as a stand alone novella entitled the boy detective of oz as well, though if you can get hold of both legends collections, I would recommend them as they're sort of a catalogue of the fantasy greats of the early two thousands. No Hobb, rotthvus, Sanderson or the guy who wrote the witcher, but most of the rest are still there, Martin, Jordan, Williams, even Robert Silverberg's majipore. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/588960/#p588960 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I've not read the burning man. Sadly, it's not available as audio book nor braille book in German. Maybe I'll someday read the English version. Yes, Sam is great. I really have to read otherland again.Speaking of German and English versions: The god most people in osten ard worship, is he called edon in the English edition? Because in German, it's Ädon, and in shadowmarch, Brioni's last name is Eddon with two d's. Just something I noticed and was wondering about. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/59/#p59 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Targor, something to look forward to for next year for me then . Btw, have you read the burning man? It was a novella Williams wrote in the legends collection, and is set a good 500 years before the main series, when the Hayholt is still in ruins, you get a glimpse into ineluki's past, and some hints at a larger story, as well as some great characterisation as always. I know what you mean about unexpected horror in other books being in some ways more shocking than in an actual horror, oddly enough there was probably more of than in Otherland than in Memory sorrow and thorn, though there is more again in Shadowmarch as I remember, there's even a section in Shadowmarch which is pretty much a literary representation of what the heroquests in king of dragon pass are probably like, complete with a fantastic world of the dead. Indeed, this is something Williams does well, the one thing I really did like in the bobby Dollar series was the second book, happy hour in hell, basically because it is tad Williams writing Hell, and you can just imagine how horrible that gets .As to Miriamelle, When I spoke of her "bratty" moments, I didn't mean her thing with Aspitis, that was perfectly understandable, which made Simon's initial reaction to it rather irritating, albeit he did get over that fairly quickly. It was the way Miriamelle treated people around her, Cadrach especially, but also on occasion Binabik, Gan ittai, Isgrimnur and even Simon, she just had a habit of lashing out at people who were being nice to her which was generally not particularly nice, which again seemed rather odd given that she wasn't initially like that when we met her in the Dragonbone chair, indeed it's one of the few slight character misssteps in the series, that she almost gets a personality shift. This, conbined with Maegwin being a total cow to Eolair and then going bonkers, and Vorzhiva being basically a spoiled Diva throughout the series, tended to mean that most of the major characters who were young women didn't tend to be pleasant to be around (with the exception of Binabik's Fiance, who's name I will not attempt to spell, but who was all sorts of awesome and genuinely lovely).Actually, Williams did rather better writing teenaged girls with Sam in Otherland, who is one of probably the most fantastic and beloved characters of the series, and Briony in Shadowmarch, who almost reads like a far nicer version of Maegwin and Miramelle combined. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/588858/#p588858 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-11-11
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Dark interesting point we may get in to philosophy teritory here, wich by all means, I don't mind. Philosophy is philosophy it seems obvious but philosophy is philosophicly speaking just philosophy. So don't be surprised that philosophical philosopy is philosophicated so much. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/588857/#p588857 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I agree with the convenient slaughtering, but the slaughtering scenes were mostly great. As you said, the ghant nest was really something else and let me shudder. This is especially creepy because this series is no horror story. Stories with sudden, unexpected horror elements often get me harder than real horror books. I remember one of the scariest moments for me during reading was the part in the venician catacombs in Otherland while Paul was chased by those two AI guys. I can't exactly remember the details, it's almost ten years since I red otherland, but I remember being really creeped out because it was night.With princess Miriamelle, I'm not quite sure to be honest. There are many moments you just scream inside because the awkwardness is unbelievable, but I kind of still understand where she's coming from, especially after the thing with Aspitis and I genuinely was sorry for her.I thought a while about whether to start the unfinished trilogy right away, exactly for the reasons you mentioned, but then I decided it will still take a little while before I finish both books and the final one is scheduled for 2021 as far as I know, so it's not too long. Williams is also not George R. R. Martin, so maybe he will actually release it in time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/588822/#p588822 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Wing of Eternity, Jordan practiced a sort of soft determinism, which is to say, most events in "the pattern", were preordained and would happen, and likely even repeat, however on occasion, various things, use of bale fire, t'veren, and some other things you'll get to later, could alter that determinism. Btw, wait for interesting stuff regarding Mat and aviendha in this area particularly later in the series. it's not worth getting too hung up on the question however, because just as in our world, determinism presupposes the idea of free will anyway. What I mean is, if Rand is predestined to confront the dark one, that confrontation is based on the idea of Rand actually doing! something to bring about that confrontation. If rand sat on his arse smoking his pipe saying, "well if I'm going to confront the dark one anyway, destiny will sort that out for me so I don't need to do anything", then everything would still go to hell and likely everyone would be slaughtered by hoards of trollocks, witness all of Rand's visions in the shadow worlds in the great hunt. Rand confronting the dark one and actually having even a chance of winning is based on the idea that rand will actually do! something about confronting the dark one, especially because did he not actually do! something about confronting the dark one, he probably would not be Rand, prophecy or not. So essentially, just as in our world, the ultimate question of free will vs determinism is a meaningless one anyhow, since people will do what they do regardless of what cosmically speaking may or may not happen, it's just that in the WoT universe, the things people do are more likely to form into repetitive patterns of historical events, failing Taveren etc, and thus be possible to predict with at least some degree of accuracy, where as in reality, the things people do are just usual crap with no cosmic significance other than the fact that crappy people do them. Or to put it another way, despite the trollocks, power mad ais sidai and general unrest, I really wish I was living in Rand land, since there at least we know! there is an even chance the end of the world won't happen! .Beware! spoiling spoilers ahoy for Memory sorrow and thorn.@Taga, my lady and I reread the series recently. I found that going back to it after a while, whilst Simon had his bratty moments for the most part I was far more on Simon's side this time around, EG when I first read the series in Braille back in the early 2000's, I really found simon's winjing in the second book, and his issue with the Sithi got on my nurves, whilst rereading it last year, I had far more sympathy, after all being basically told that your reward for saving someone's life is essentially life imprisonment, and what's more life imprisonment while the entire world goes to hell! I do agree, seeing Simon change and grow from inexperienced kitchen boy to a battle scarred man who still wants to do the right thing, but for my lady and I even when simon was playing tricks on chambermaids or sneaking around the place giving cats randomly silly names, my lady and I found this just another sign of innocence than anything else.The only thing I really disliked this time around was the way that Williams occasionally cut off plots mid way through just so he could have things go where he wanted, usually by slaughtering lots of random bystanders. For example, while Skodi was creepy as hell (and credit to Williams for having a sexually sleezy teenaged girl), it was a bit harsh that literally all of her children got torn apart by monsters so that the heroes didn't have to cope with shepherding around a bunch of orphans. Likewise, it was rather convenient that poor Tiamak's entire village got slaughtered thus forcing him to be more involved in the rest of the plot, although I'll give williams a slight pass here as yee gods that ghant nest was freeky! (I was getting definite Ridly scott Alien vibes).I will say, the one character upon rereading my lady really disliked was Miriamelle, and indeed I forgot that she basically gets a huge brat injection between the first and second books. It's odd, I still like the fact that for once we have the kitchen boy and the princess, who genuinely like each other, yet both mess up, make mistakes and have stupidly teenaged disagreements which they just need to plane grow up and get over (like when Simon gets irritated for a brief space at hearing Miriamelle slept with Aspitis).All in all though, still one of my favourite fantasy trilogies ever! I have not started the second trilogy because I know Tad Williams, he has an irritating habit of basically having each book in a series be simply a conveient chunk of a larger story, and not a chunk that is really satisfying on it's own. This isn't a criticism, writing one long story rather than three or four connected stories each with an individual climax is more than fair enou
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Wing of Eternity, Jordan practiced a sort of soft determinism, which is to say, most events in "the pattern", were preordained and would happen, and likely even repeat, however on occasion, various things, use of bale fire, t'veren, and some other things you'll get to later, could alter that determinism. Btw, wait for interesting stuff regarding Mat and aviendha in this area particularly later in the series. it's not worth getting too hung up on the question however, because just as in our world, determinism presupposes the idea of free will anyway. What I mean is, if Rand is predestined to confront the dark one, that confrontation is based on the idea of Rand actually doing! something to bring about that confrontation. If rand sat on his arse smoking his pipe saying, "well if I'm going to confront the dark one anyway, destiny will sort that out for me so I don't need to do anything", then everything would still go to hell and likely everyone would be slaughtered by hoards of trollorcs, witness all of Rand's visions in the shadow worlds in the great hunt. Rand confronting the dark one and actually having even a chance of winning is based on the idea that rand will actually do! something about confronting the dark one, especially because did he not actually do! something about confronting the dark one, he would not be Rand, prophecy or not. So essentially, just as in our world, the ultimate question of free will vs determinism is a meaningless one anyhow, since people will do what they do regardless of what cosmically speaking may or may not happen, it's just that in the WoT universe, the things people do are more likely to form into repetitive patterns of historical events, failing Taveren etc, where as in reality, the things people do are just usual crap with no cosmic significance other than the fact that crappy people do them. Or to put it another way, despite the trollorcs, power mad ais sidai and general unrest, I really wish I was living in Rand land, since there at least we know! there is a good chance the end of the world won't happen! .Beware! spoiling spoilers ahoy for Memory sorrow and thorn.@Taga, my lady and I reread the series recently. I found that going nback to it after a while, whilst Simon had his bratty moments for the most part I was far more on Simon's side this time around, EG when I first read the series in Braille back in the early 2000's, I really found simon's winjing in the second book, and his issue with the Sithi got on my nurves, whilst rereading it last year, I had far more sympathy, after all being basically told that your reward for saving someone's life is essentially life imprisonment, and what's more life imprisonment while the entire world goes to hell! I do agree, seeing Simon change and grow from inexperienced kitchen boy to a battle scarred man who still wants to do the right thing, but for my lady and I even when simon was playing tricks on chambermaids or sneaking around the place giving cats randomly silly names, my lady and I found this just another sign of innocence than anything else.The only thing I really disliked this time around was the way that Williams occasionally cut off plots mid way through just so he could have things go where he wanted, usually by slaughtering lots of random bystanders. For example, while Skodi was creepy as hell (and credit to Williams for having a sexually sleezy teenaged girl), it was a bit harsh that literally all of her children got torn apart by monsters so that the heroes didn't have to cope with shepherding around a bunch of orphans. Likewise, it was rather convenient that poor Tiamak's entire village got slaughtered thus forcing him to be more involved in the rest of the plot, although I'll give williams a slight pass here as yee gods that ghant nest was freeky! (I was getting definite Ridly scott Alien vibes).I will say, the one character upon rereading my lady really disliked was Miriamelle, and indeed I forgot that she basically gets a huge brat injection between the first and second books. It's odd, I still like the fact that for once we have the kitchen boy and the princess, who genuinely like each other, yet both mess up, make mistakes and have stupidly teenaged disagreements which they just need to plane grow up and get over (like when Simon gets irritated for a brief space at hearing Miriamelle slept with Aspitis).All in all though, still one of my favourite fantasy trilogies ever! I have not started the second trilogy because I know Tad Williams, he has an irritating habit of basically having each book in a series be simply a conveient chunk of a larger story, and not a chunk that is really satisfying on it's own. This isn't a criticism, writing one long story rather than three or four connected stories each with an individual climax is more than fair enough, but it does mean that I don't really want to start anything by Williams
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Dark: In a very early post in this topic we talked about Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. I've finished the series now and it was great. I especially loved the way Williams introduced Simon as this absolutely unlikable brad in the beginning and you kind of hoped he would never exit those damn tunnels under the castle, but he gets more and more likable during the series until you really don't want anything bad happening to him.Spoiler:It was also a great idea to let older, more experienced Simon wander helplessly through the tunnels again towards the end of the series, because then you notice how much your feelings have changed.I am now beginning to read the other trilogy in Osten Ard. It seems to continue about thirty years after the end of Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/588599/#p588599 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-11-10
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @dark, That's some of it since I can see that heroes play a grand role in every story. The heroic need can nearly be called a universal one, if you will. There is much more to this because Rand is not always the center, the wheel coses things and it makes Ta'viran as it wills, that's why I was curious to see if the wheel is shaping destinies ? or are the ta'viran shaping them. If ta'viran can change other destinies,? Wouldn't be reasonable to assume that they could change their own destinies. As an example I would like to point to a scene where Mat tryes for the first time the twisted red dor, the tearangrial from tear.. There those serpent like creatures tell him to go to Ruidian , to escape fate itself. And there are other scenes where things don't happen as they shoudl have. I take that as a sighn that the characters sometimes can change their destiny. But I am not so sure, since the wheel cose who are the ta'viran so does that mean that the wheel can do whatever it wants with them for it's own purposes? You see how complex the thing is? You can also argue that there is no freedom from destiny since ages come and go. what do you think? How is the nature of the wheel? can characters change their destiny/fate? or not? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/588515/#p588515 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Glad your liking the series I'm thinking of doing a reread/review before amazon destroy things with a tv adaptation. In terms of the Aiel, I don't think they had a specific cultural basis the way that say David Eddings or Ramond Feist based some of their cultures heavily on real world cultures. Bedowin and desert peoples generally, and likely a lot of the fremin from Dune are in there, but they're pretty unique as well. Actually, this is one aspect of the series Jordan does extremely well, creating a lot of complex cultures and societies and showing them in detail, indeed the Aiel are a major part of the series, and you get to see a lot of their culture and beliefs and how different Aiel react to the way the world changes around them, and to rand. Actually, with the Aiel in particular Jordan does a great job of creating both a very unique culture, which has it's good and less good aspects, including very harsh punishments and ideals of honour in battle, and also manages to make a lot of characters from that culture who aren't clones.What is amusing, is that a lot is made later in the series of the fact that none Aiel dn't really get Aiel humour, yet weirdly enough, my lady found that she actually was! getting the Aiel humour towards the end of the series, and was laughing at the Aiel jokes. As to t'veren, actually it's a really interesting literary device, which Jordan employs, which he then has great fun twisting in different ways. We all know how in books in general and fantasy in particular, the world seems to bend around the protagonists, they seem to so often be in just the right place at just the right time, or get one crucial piece of luck, or suddenly have people decide to follow them out of the blue? ? Well Jordan not only gives us a rather amusing in universe cosmological explanation for this, but also actually shows a bunch of different consequences, not all of them good. it's actually a great way of poking fun at fantasy tropes, and also I remember one which comes up quite uniquely in the dragon reborn. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/588143/#p588143 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-11-09
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books ok, many things have happened in the series, since I posted. I am at the shadow rising, and I am really curious to see the ail wastes and their way of living. They have strange customs , and I was also curios what was the inspiration for them. I would like an article detailing that. There are manythings for example Lanfear telling Rand that she wants him to join her, and he not having the guts to kill her, but that's not the thing. More importantly is her take on the prophecy. She says that the prophecy is only how the people hope it could be ai's sedai being some of those. But isn't Lanfear right? I mean the dragon Rand/lews Therin can he not change his destiny? He is taviran which means that he can change the destiny of others, but can he change his own? Thats' strange how is the wheel supposed to work, in this instance? Are the ta'veran changing the wheel ? or is the wheel changing them? Can they actually change destiny ? or is destiny changing them all? Or may be a ta'veran changes the destiny of others, but when he or she has to take decisions freely, he can't because he /she is bound by the pattern. I don't know which of those 3 , but that makes it more interesting . what's your take on it guys?Blood and ashes! blood and fucking bloody ashes!, but this series is bloody good, the light burn it! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/588080/#p588080 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-11-09
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books ok, many things have happened in the series, since I posted. I am at the shadow rising, and I am really curious to see the ail wastes and their way of living. They have strange customs , and I was also curios what was the inspiration for them. I would like an article detailing that. There are manythings for example Lanfear telling Rand that she wants him to join her, and he not having the guts to kill her, but that's not the thing. More importantly is her take on the prophecy. She says that the prophecy is only how the people hope it could be ai's sedai being some of those. But isn't Lanfear right? I mean the dragon Rand/lews Therin can he not change his destiny? He is taviran which means that he can change the destiny of others, but can he change his own? Thats' strange how is the wheel supposed to work, in this instance? Are the ta'veran changing the wheel ? or is the wheel changing them? Can they actually change destiny ? or is destiny changing them all? Or may be a ta'veran changes the destiny of others, but when he or she has to take decisions freely, he can't because he /she is bound by the pattern. I don't know which of those 3 , but that makes it more interesting . what's your take on it guys? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/588080/#p588080 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Ishamael was more than half mad, and was, if you'll recall, trying very, very hard to convert Rand instead of killing him. Had he just wanted to straight-up murder Rand - and this goes for other Forsaken as well - trust me, he could've done it.As far as the Black Ajah in Tear? Be'Lal set a trap. His original aim, I think, was to use the trapped women as bait for Rand. You'll note how Be'Lal let Rand take the sword, then fought him, being sure he could beat him and take that sword for himself. If he'd done that, it's game over. This was actually a pretty nifty plan. The only thing which kills that plan is that Mat is already well on his way to rescuing the girls, the Aiel are busy storming the Stone, and Moiraine happens to arrive in the nick of time to save Rand. If any one of those elements wasn't there, Be'Lal's plan succeeds, and it's all over. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/585772/#p585772 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-11-02
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @jayde I thought that about ishamael too, though it's said that he is one of the strongest forsaken if not the strongest. Rand the first time didn't even knnow what he was doing, it always seems to this point at least that he defeated him only by blind luk. Ishamael is by far more experienced then Rand who doesn't know how to use his power, so how could some one like Rand beat Ishamael ?I enjoyed the chapters with the 3 girls imensly, I also have to mention that I am reading it as an audio book. The narators are exxcelent. of course there is another mysteryAnd that is the thing with the black ajah, what were those black sisters doing in tyr in the first place? it's like after they captured Elaine , Nuyneave and Egweene, they just had no part to play. what were theu doing there?I have more to say on wheel of time, but that's all for this post:d URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/585753/#p585753 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Okay, so, obviously some spoilers for the Wheel of Time, even though that book is pretty old by now.When Perrin goes to rescue Faile, no, she is not controlling the falcons. He's essentially in a dreamworld "nightmare" or trap set by one of the darkfriends. It's all meant to be symbolic. But it's also only the third book in the series, and Jordan's magic system wasn't as thoroughly fleshed out as it later got. There were holes even at the end, but in earlier books, explanations for some stuff really were flimsy. Chalk this Faile and Perrin thing up both to flimsy construction and to symbolic representation in the dreamworld.Us not getting a whole ot of Rand's POV here is probably for two reasons. First, I'm pretty sure Robert Jordan wasn't planning the series to be fourteen books at this point, and in the few Rand POVs we do get, he seems pretty unhinged at times. I believe that Jordan was trying to play tricks and remove us from the perspective of the main hero precisely to give us a backseat view of what was going on. Personally, this is one of the things I liked best about this particular novel. It is high time we got a lot of Perrin, Mat, Egwene and other points of view. This absolutely needed to happen if the series was going to expand, which it very much did in later books. Because yes, I care about Rand, but I also care about all the other people in the world. This story is far, far bigger than Rand alone, even if he stands at the center of it. I dunno, but personally, too much emphasis on Rand at this part of the story probably would have soured me on it. There are a lot of things Jordan gets wrong at different points in the series, but this is one that he nailed squarely.Ishamael had tried and failed three separate times now to kill Rand. The Dark One probably got tired of his failures and let him die because, while he is the self-titled Lord of the Grave, he can't control everything, and if he could just resurrect his non-Balefired servants over and over, that's kind of boring and not cool and destroys the series. also? It's supposed to kind of make Rand think he killed the Dark One, even though he didn't come anywhere near that. As far as his body splitting in two, I'm not a hundred percent sure there, but that could be foreshadowing about his soul, or whatever might be left of it. It's been awhile since I read the end of The Dragon Reborn, but it's one of my favourite books in the series. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/585647/#p585647 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-11-02
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I have to say a cople of things. I just finished the dragon reborn.There was a thing that I didn't like though. We just had to little of Rand. We don't know how he arived to tyr. We only know that he did arive. We don't know why he traveled so fast, or why wmoirain didn't catch up to him. We just got chapters with description of viliges and such places from Perrin's point of view which sometimes got boring when you get only description. I enjoyed the wolf dreams thogh, and telairan riod scenes.I would have wished to find more of how Rand trains himself in using the power, and his conflict with the idea of being the dragon. Besides that the book was good.But in the end why was perrin hurt by the falkans in the world of dream, when he tryed to save Serine. Wasn't she controling the falkans? I don't get it, and who imprisoned her in the begining? and why did Ishamael die after calling on the dark one to help him? After alll why would Shait'aan leave Ishamael to die? he is his greatest servent. Ups! I spoke the dark one's name! how is it that he died, and it's strange that before dieing his body was split in 2. Does someone know what's going on in that scene? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/58/#p58 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Wing of eternity, you really shouldn't look at later series spoilers like that since you'll end up ruining the series for yourself, and WoT has some great twists that it's certainly possible to ruin. The issue you mention is a little more complicated than just the dark one giving a man a female body, but since it involves a huge amount of series spoilers and a seemingly harmless character sowing discord, it's probably best to leave discussion of it until later. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582765/#p582765 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-23
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @dark right, I didn't read it all, I am the dragon rebonr now, I think that we should modefy it, or I can come with something when I finished the story.It's intresting , and now I have a spoiler because I know that one of the forsaken was able to change genders, and this thing can be quite strange, when the dark one reserects the forsaken then I have heard that he can even give a male a female body , and a female a male body. I took this spoiler from somewhere dk from where . But I like it, greatpower does the dark one have yes!, yeshow did fain control machen shin? and how is it that lsamfear knows that Rand is lews therin reborn at the end of the great hunt?and Jayde I know what you are talking about , cool thingy that onehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0Also, I know a fiew songs about the wheel of time, there are great when you want to listen to some music while reading.there is one with western and eastern philosophy too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582608/#p582608 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-23
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @dark right, I didn't read it all, I am the dragon rebonr now, I think that we should modefy it, or I can come with something when I finished the story.It's intresting , and now I have a spoiler because I know that one of the forsaken was able to change genders, and this thing can be quite strange, when the dark one reserects the forsaken then I have heard that he can even give a male a female body , and a female a male body. I took this spoiler from somewhere dk from where . But I like it, greatpower does the dark one have yes!, yeshow did fain control machen shin? and how is it that lsamfear knows that Rand is lews therin reborn at the end of the great hunt?and Jayde I know what you are talking about , cool thingy that onehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAAp_luluo0Also, I know a fiew songs about the wheel of time, there are great when you want to listen to some music while reading. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582608/#p582608 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-23
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @dark right, I didn't read it all, I am the dragon rebonr now, I think that we should modefy it, or I can come with something when I finished the story.It's intresting , and now I have a spoiler because I know that one of the forsaken was able to change genders, and this thing can be quite strange, when the dark one reserects the forsaken then I have heard that he can even give a male a female body , and a female a male body. I took this spoiler from somewhere dk from where . But I like it, greatpower does the dark one have yes!, yeshow did fain control machen shin? and how is it that lsamfear knows that Rand is lews therin reborn at the end of the great hunt? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582608/#p582608 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Jordan cast a lot of shade on both men and women. I've criticized this before, and it's accurate, but it also isn't biased overmuch toward or against one gender over the other in this instance.Motivations are complicated. A group of women who have had the uncontested run of things for a long time has probably lost the sense of what it's like to be opposed, and are unused to giving up any power (Moiraine is a great microcosm of this). Some of these women think that the main character must be controlled; others think that since there's no way to guarantee what prophecy means, or whether it's even accurate, they must only watch and act at greatest need.I fully agree that a lot of problems would have been lessened if people would just have bloody well sat down and shared info, so those moments are great when they happen. But I actually enjoy all the various factions, even groups within those factions with differing ideals. Because that's exactly how the world works on the macro scale. Look at any congress or senate or house of commons, or any large governing body, or any large group with a leader, or hell, even a military body, and you'll see what I mean.I'm one of those heathens who recognizes the importance of Lord of the rings, and liked the story well enough when I read it. But I think the series is far, far more awkwardly written in places than Wheel of Time ever pretended to be, even though WoT is much bigger. Lord of the Rings has crisp delineations of everything. There are very few gray characters (Boromir is probably the best here, Denethor is another). Most are either very good, or very...not good. Sauron and his ilk are evil just...because. There's not a lot of nuance to most of the characters. The magic in the universe is sort of nebulous and unruled, yet Tolkien wrote a whole freaking language that in some cases he takes pains to inflict upon us. There are parts of the books I genuinely enjoy. And then there are parts where I find myself thinking, "Right, okay. How long is this going to last, anyway?". I don't hate the series, not by any means, but I think after reading newer fantasy, I've lost my awe of Lord of the Rings, and have found myself much more able to pick out its flaws and its issues.I'm now thinking of the GRRM vs. Tolkien battle rap:"Your bad guys die, your good guys survive.We can tell what's gonna happen by page and age five.""You went too deep, professor Tweedpants.We don't need the backstory on every fuckin' tree-branch!"I still say GRRM's shots were very on point there, though Tolkien might have won overall. That is still one of my favourite rap battles of history. Heh. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582605/#p582605 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Wing of Iturnity, I'd suggest finishing all the series before knowing where titles fit in, since things like who the lord of chaos is are a little obscure, and most of the titles are no where near as straight forward as the eye of the world or the great hunt. @khomus, WoT is worst than most series with this. Partly I can see it as a reaction against all of those fantasies where you know the evil dark lord is out there and once the good guys alert everyone to the dark lord's existance, of course age old enemies and mistrustful rivals will band together to defeat him, whiich we totally know would not happen in reality (look at how divided the world is on issues like dealing with the Covid virus Climate change, even though it could potentially wipe out humanity). Equally, part of it is how I think Jordan tended to believe men and women particularly interacted, with two genders being fundamentally different and unknowable to each other, and even when a couple is sharing a bed or married, they're still essentially strangers trying to guess at each other's motivations or manipulate the other, which I confess I find down right irritating, given that my lady probably knows me better than anyone and is very much my best friend, as well as my wife.The up side to this, is that there are some wonderful sequences in the series when everyone actually does! work together and achieves some awesome things, and at least a couple of relationships which aren't based around sneaking about, looking suspicious and assuming that your partner won't be suspicious of you for all the sneaking around and looking suspicious you're doing, and those relationships are rather lovely. I do think Jordan over did this aspect of things quite a lot, and as I've said I really don't like his Freudian universe, but to me there was enough good stuff in terms of characters, plot, and a mysterious world in amongst all of that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582590/#p582590 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-23
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I made a wheel of time poem based on the book titles. If you have any suggestions or think I should modefy something please tell.here we go!as I see I will be seen by the eye of the world;the great hunt begins with the coming of the dragon rebornthe shadow is rising higher;as the fires of heaven burn our lost desires;so, let the lord of chaos rule;with a a crown of swordstrailing across a path of daggers mullenium old;in the place where winter's hart is mornedwe meet at the crossroads of twilightin our hands a nife of dreams;awating with hope for the gathering storm;as we travel far to the towers of midnight;to find a memory of light;that's it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582573/#p582573 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-23
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I made a wheel of time poem based on the book titles. If you have any suggestions or think I should modefy something please tell.here we go!Pasta Aglio, Olio e Peperoncinothat's it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582573/#p582573 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Ah! I see. Yeah I have almost no patience for that stuff. Not because it doesn't happen in life, the gods know it does, but because, as you've said, you could solve it all in like five seconds if you just get together and talk. Most of the time it's not even motivated, like A's trying to hide something or can't bring themselves to be honest/reveal whatever, and that makes B think things are bad. It's just literally like, because plot, they just never sit down and talk. And to my mind, unless you've got something behind it, it's a piss poor plot motivation.There's this song, lots of people find it weird, but I like it, called Sharkey's Day. it's got this great line in it. "In the beginning of the movie, they know they have to find each other. But they ride off in opposite directions". I just can't hack plots like that.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqRt6tBnX-0 URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582352/#p582352 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @khomus, nope, when I describe WoT as "slow", I don't just mean in terms of things taking a long time due to journeying as in LOTR, I mean exactly in the way you describe, though not imho as badly as you describe, someone thinks this, and thinks that someone else is thinking that, so goes and does the other, which in turn makes the second person think they were thinking something else, so the second person does something else and so on. It's all about missed communication. It's not as bad as D H Laurence (not much is in that sense), plus the characters are far more likeable, also, since usually the resolutions people take mean that they go and get into battles, or try to assassinate someone, or try to make friends with another faction, it all usually adds up going places, but it's true, that Jordan does like to spend a lot of time on character motivations and problems that would easily be solved if people would just sit down and talk to each other and if you don't have patience for this sort of thing, you probably won't enjoy the series. Myself, while the endless factionalism and mistrust got wearing, at least for the first few books it stayed at a manageable level imho, but obviously different people have different tolerance for this type of thing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582289/#p582289 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Dark: It's not that it's slow, not in the sense you're thinking. Hell I love LOTR and I once heard somebody say one of the dumbest things I've ever heard in my life about it. "It's an epic, and nobody has time for epics anymore. Somebody should rewrite it in the style of Hemmingway".It's not that it's slow like, oh you were talking about character A and now you're talking about character Q and I want to know about A! It's slow like, OK this is five pages of character A in their own head wondering what character R is thinking, and what that means for character P, and does character M really want to do this thing? If they do, what does that mean about situation 3 they find themselves in, wouldn't 2 be better? For me, it's like, yes I get all of that. You don't need to go through the minute detail of every single thought A has about all of those things, because I'm a smart enough human being to understand that it's the sort of stuff they'd be thinking about. Give us a paragraph, and move the hell along with the damn plot(s).I mean to be fair, this is also why I don't like a lot of so-called "classic literature". I'm all for characters doing character things and growing and blah blah blah. But I don't need a detailed inventory of the inside of Jane Eyre's head. You're feeling whatever, I get it. Let's move the hell along now. The worst offender I've found so far in this regard is D. H. Laurence. There's a book where he takes like four pages of this woman musing about angels with fiery swords and shit, and basically what happens is, she hugs this dude's butt, has all these thoughts, and then they go downstairs to dinner in the hotel/lodge they're staying in. It's completely ridiculous. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582276/#p582276 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @firefly, thanks for that, though I'll reserve birthday discussions for the monthly chat topic I think. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582262/#p582262 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Hey Dark! Completely offtopic, but tell your lady the very best birthday wishes! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582203/#p582203 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @khomus, you certainly aren't the first person in the world to regard WoT as too slow or too blatantly factional, although most people tend to think it only gets this way around book 6. Then again with Jordan being born in 1947, I have heard it said that WoT is in some senses a pre-blockbuster era book, and therefore the movement of characters, speed of dialogue etc is generally slower than a modern audience expects. again, those sorts of issues didn't bother me in WoT until later in the series, but maybe I just have more time on my hands or am less critical of people making mistakes due to incomplete information, evil psychic influences or the like, indeed there are only a few characters in WoT I'd describe as blatantly stupid in their decision making, and usually they have huge signs around their kknecks saying "stupid!" in big stupid letters, (there is one lady who reminds me distressingly of a certain famous world leader, although she is arguably much more intelligent) . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582152/#p582152 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Well, I'm out. I tried, I really did. I got to the beginning of Ch. 6 in Great Hunt. I had to slog through Mat's inner monologue of paranoiac dumbness in Eye, and I see Ch. 5 of Hunt was just setting up some more paranoid factionalism. And then, in the beginning of Ch. 6, Rand's having some sort of dream or something.I'm sorry. I want things to happen. I do not give a good gods damn about the dumbness that's going on in the heads of these idiots, in particular because, well, they're just such idiots. Oh hey look, all the guards turn into gloomy depressive assholes around a dude who's totes been corrupted by the dark? You don't say! And neither of them get it? Jordan may as well be writing it on a brick and beating you in the face with it until the letters are permanently impressed into your skin, and they're just completely and utterly baffled by it all. I'm not sure if fantasies with byzantine plots and counter plots and paranoia and all just aren't my thing or what, but I can tell you this.Maybe, if WOT got its shit together, philosophically speaking, and got rid of like two-thirds of what I've read so far, it would be a better set of books. Seriously Robert Jordan, we get it. The Dark is some scary scary stuff. It corrupts things. Yeah, people are paranoid. Again, I get it. Half of your characters can't see what's right in front of their faces. Again, got that on lock buddy, you can stop belaboring it. I just feel like half of Hunt is going to be a rehash of half of Eye, it is so far. If all of that just happens more as the books get longer, and from everything I've heard it does, I'm sorry. I just can't bring myself to slog through the utter tedium to get to this great story all y'all claim is hiding in here, and that you seem to love so much. I need way more plot movement and way fewer idiots than these books seem to be offering me. I feel like, at this point, "the dragon reborn" breaks the world by trying to avoid his cat, tripping over his own two feet, and spilling his beer all over the insides of the computer that runs the world, shorting everything out and killing the power.P.S.If you think this is a harsh review, ask me what I thought of that horror story about Jack the Ripper whose title I can't remember at the moment. Because good holy gods, was that some quality dumbness. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/582014/#p582014 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Actually the horn doesn't get stolen in a "well you should've guarded it better" type of way, more in an "oh shit! there is a huge pack of orcs attacking and we happen to have at least one traitor as well!" type of way . I'm honestly surprised khomus you describe the cast of WoT like idiots, since while they're often frustratingly untrustworthy, and as I said the constant bickering (especially from the female characters), gets very old pretty fast, factional allegiances, and people acting often with incomplete information is something Jordan does very well. Actually, this is making me want to reread and review the series myself, especially to preempt the tv adaption next year. Oh and Btw, it is my lady's birthday today, and one of her presents came on time, a T shirt printed with the flame of tarvallan in Green for the green aja! as to awesome scenes, I have to say the duel between Josua and the thrithings champion in memory sorrow and thorn was one for me, since basically naked tribal fight to the death between one handed, tired and very bust up prince and big burley scummy tribesman, it's not epic, it's not honourable, and best of all you don't know who is going to win! WoT though is awesome for it's dramatic writing and descriptions, though I do wish some of the sword moves such as parting the silk or stone rushes down the mountain were described in a bit more detail, though the poetry and formality of it does have a great sound. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/581926/#p581926 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books There's a scene like that, for me, in the Codex Alera series. I want to say it's in book four or five, but I'd have to check.Also, I just started The Great Hunt, because everybody says I need to read at least two of the books. I learned from the book jacket blurb that the horn, which they literally just found in the last book, gets stolen. Seriously? This is a super awesome artifact, and you let it get stolen? I'm reading the second book because I dig Loyal and he's apparently in it significantly, and also because everybody here says you need to read at least two of them to get the flavor. But I gotta tell you, so far this pack of idiots are not endearing themselves to me. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/581665/#p581665 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-20
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books sorry for the double post, but no one really answered to my previous one, not that my previous one had a wquestion in it lol.well , I was at chapter44 of the great hunt called the blade master, when they found the horn in a shon chan building, Mat , and Rand and the others. But you know what I felt? when Rand thought with that blade master, Turak? I was exsighted, there many descriptive scenes in this book, and not so many sword fights. But this time I felt addrenaline coursing through my vains, it was amazing , I mean I fekt ir for the battle that Rand had , and for the way in which they snicked in to shon chan putpost to take the dagger and the horn. Combined with the way ninive lished a suulmani, , all of those combined, really made my hard pumping. my question is this?which scenes from which bbooks made you feel this ausome kind of adrenaline seeminly from nowhere?it doesn't matter which book, but it has to give you this feeling of adrenaline and your hart pumping like you finished a race. Seriously, even now my hart is pumping and I finished the chapter 16 minutes ago. Why does thathappen? and why, and how did it happen to you?The only comparason I can make is running or finishing a race, that how I felt , I had this experience by reading other books too. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/581542/#p581542 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-20
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books sorry for the double post, but no one really answered to my previous one, not that my previous one had a wquestion in it lol.well , I was at chapter44 of the great hunt called the blade master, when they found the horn in a shon chan building, Mat , and Rand and the others. But you know what I felt? when Rand thought with that blade master, Turak? I was exsighted, there many descriptive scenes in this book, and not so many sword fights. But this time I felt addrenaline coursing through my vains, it was amazing , I mean I fekt ir for the battle that Rand had , and for the way in which they snicked in to shon chan putpost to take the dagger and the horn. Combined with the way ninive lished a suulmani, , all of those combined, really made my hard pumping. my question is this?which scenes from which bbooks made you feel this ausome kind of adrenaline seeminly from nowhere? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/581542/#p581542 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-18
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @dark I know your secret. it's writen in your name. No one knows it because you warded it so well that no one can see it. By using your name dark you showed us that you are a reflection of the dark one , may be closer to him then we know. But does any one know?No! Nono can know it, and that's because by using dark it's so obvious that you are a dark friend, that no one would even bother to check. Such your credibility as a dark friend is covered by the obviousness of your name. that being , dark. Because the name is so obvious no one would think that you could be a dark friend, but I know that you are. Now what will you do? will you send your cyber creatures against me?looliny ways, I am advancing in the wheel of time, and now shon chan just invaded the main continent, proclaiming themselvs as being the true rulers of the land. We know that they cam from the other side of the arid ocean, but no more. May be they come from the line of Arthur Hokwing, though I am more curious how did they foom a cultural perspective, and what are they games? why are they officers bowing so much in the presence of a simple lord, and more importantly about the domani. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/581295/#p581295 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @drums61999, that's true, that's one reason I personally didn't mind some of the more dramatic names like Demandred quite as much. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580969/#p580969 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Also, just a point I don't think anyone has brought up, the names of the forsaken were given to them by the people, embraced by the thirteen, and are not their actual names. Lanfear for example I believe is named Merin. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580966/#p580966 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-17
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @dark I agree! I agree so completely that I can't agree anymore ! lool ! there is much to take in to consideration sometimes fantasy elements seem so real that you actually begin to doubt that they are really just fantasy. You have given me a fiew series to paunder upon, Jayde, I like it, the question is , will we have more such scens with portal stones and paralel reallityes made by the pattern? Since I see alot of potential there given the fact that the peralal worlds in WOT can be both similar or may be so far off from ichother that may be one of them would even be like our own. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580866/#p580866 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @wing of Eternity, there are no repeating cycles, no ages that come and go, homo not very sapiens is an intrinsically stupid species who don't just make the same mistakes again and again, but know they're making those mistakes and just go on to make bigger ones because we are idiots.I just hope when we destroy ourselves, there will be enough of the planet left over for another species to have a go, since (to quote the Simpsons), I for one welcome our insect overlords . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580632/#p580632 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books There are little sprinkles of things in the Wheel of Time universe to suggest alternate universes or an alternate timeline. There's folklore about someone flying to the stars in the belly of an eagle made of steel. There's some sort of insignia (a four-pointed star inside a circle) which radiates vanity. Others I can't remember right now, but definitely historical allusions. It's another reason why I'm sort of okay with some of these names sounding similar. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580604/#p580604 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-16
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books a strange iideea came to my head. what if we are having the wheel in our univers, I mean not exactly as Jordan described it, but something that shows that reallity it's coming and going like an endless cycle, like a loop that never ends, may be as long as human breath exists. SSomething that comes and goes, and again, and again, and again, and again. We have different stages yes but the fundamental actions and reactions of humanity remain the same constant for all time. what if that is true> or what i ut's not? what do you guys say? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580599/#p580599 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Dark, if you can, you may want to try Armageddon's Children, The Elves of Cintra, and The Gypsy Morph. It's a trilogy by Brooks, but it takes place in a version of our own world, and while it's not amazing, mind-blowing fiction, it's a whole lot better than the way you're characterizing Brooks. There's some genuinely touching moments in that trilogy, IMO, and you sort of get to see how everything falls apart and changes.Aww man! I did not know that about Moiraine's actor. I would've hoped they'd get someone short. Not that her height has a huge impact either way, but still. What's going to get me is her voice; I have a particular sound for Moiraine in my head, and if they fuck this up, it's going to put me off a fair bit. The same is true for a few others, but Moiraine is a bigger one since RJ made a point to tell us how melodious and musical and sometimes imperious her voice can be. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580422/#p580422 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Firefly, that is a fair point about Eddings and invincibility, and is a major stumbling block in Belgarath the Sorcerer and Polgara the sorceress. When I reread the Belgariad, the fact that most is told from Garion's perspective, and Garion is intrinsically inexperienced and doesn't really know what is happening, often created tension even in situations where there wasn't, for example the sequence where they're all captured by the evil Nobleman, and of course Silk picks the locks in seconds, but we're still treated to a brief sequence of Garion sitting around in his cell wondering if they're about to be sacrificed. Plus of course with Eddings, the Banter and interplay between the characters was always fun. with Brooks, or at least in those Brooks novels I read, even when we lost characters, I just didn't feel connected enough to those characters for it to really have emotional impact, because most of the characters I saw were simply their description or profession, EG beautiful princess or sorceress, awesome ranger, dwarven fightre, powerful mage etc, so I never really got attached to them.With the WoT series being mainly focused on Moirane I'm not sure, since on the one hand I could see that as a good way to introduce the white tower and a lot of the politics early, on the other, I do remember loving Eye of the world simply for the journey aspects and the fact we got to learn more about the world and it's history slowly over time, then again I freely admit, I have a thing about journey stories anyway. we'll see I suppose. Btw, amusingly Enough, my lady is very urked with the fact that the actress playing Moirane in the series is apparently five foot nine! Being, under five feet herself, my lady always likes seeing awesome tiny women in fiction, and is quite annoyed that the series is displaying this level of hightism :D. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580419/#p580419 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Firefly, that is a fair point about Eddings and invincibility, and is a major stumbling block in Belgarath the Sorcerer and Polgara the sorceress. When I reread the Belgariad, the fact that most is told from Garion's perspective, and Garion is intrinsically inexperienced and doesn't really know what is happening, often created tension even in situations where there wasn't, for example the sequence where they're all captured by the evil Nobleman, and of course Silk picks the locks in seconds, but we're still treated to a brief sequence of Garion sitting around in his cell wondering if they're about to be sacrificed. Plus of course with Eddings, the Banter and interplay between the characters was always fun. with Brooks, or at least in those Brooks novels I read, even when we lost characters, I just didn't feel connected enough to those characters for it to really have emotional impact, because most of the characters I saw were simply their description or profession, EG beautiful princess or sorceress, awesome ranger, dwarven fightre, powerful mage etc, so I never really got attached to them. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580419/#p580419 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I'm not sure yet what to think of the adaptation of WoT.Amazon said allready that they will tell the whole story more on the view of the main Aes Sedai character. And thats a little bit weird in my opinion. But we have to wait and see how this will turn out.In case of Terry Brooks i can only repeat that i liked his handling of its Characters. Not everyone is happy in the end. and some of them don't even survive.Thats totaly different to David Eddings and his inviolable group of heroes.Nothing is more boring than three or four or five heroes which survive every situation.For example this is the main point why i stopped reading books of Anthony Ryan. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580395/#p580395 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Wing of eternity, yes we are having a tv adaptation of the wheel of time, it's not an anime. It's due for release in 2021 by Amazon, Corona virus willing, what it will be like, well we'll see. I'm afraid Terry Brooks sword of Shanara I really disliked, a blatant copy of lord of the rings, even down to the structure of it's plot, with infinitely worse writing. A read a few others in the Shanara series hoping things would get a little better, and though Druids of shanara was showing a little improvement on that score, at least as far as originality and atmosphere goes, in general I just found everything way to blatantly standard fantasy, as though it was all written with character descriptions from the D source manual, without attention to dialogue, plot or much beyond that. My lady has read more terry Brooks and recommends some of the series, and I know Tom ward was a fan of some of them, but with so much really unique fantasy out there I've not really considered giving more of his stuff a try. Dragonlance is one I've heard of often, but have never read. My brother was a huge fan, but whether they have a bit more too them than just stock fantasy elements, I'm not sure. I will say I was recently rather disappointed with Ramond Fiest's rift war trilogy (find my reviews on the above site), which, despite some really unique ideas and lovely bits of description, just fell down too much in characters and plot, though there I've heard there is a massive difference between Rift war and it's sequel series, The Empire trilogy, so I might give those a try at some point, albeit I think the next fantasy authors I'll be trying will be Erika Johansan and Jo Abacromby. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580384/#p580384 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Looks like we are. No telling how good it will be.Ugh, the spanking thing. Don't remind me. lolThe gender thing actually makes me think quite a bit. I know guys who have read this series and are uncomfortable about all the asides that women in the series make about men. They gossip. They need to be guided. They think with the hair on their chests. They're loud and vulgar and drink too much and flirt too much and generally need a woman to keep them in line. Some of these dudes I've known get outraged at all the sexism in the series.First thing I ask them: "How does it feel?"Because I've read a lot of books where men openly or covertly make similar claims and comments about women. They gossip. They need to follow their man. They're untidy and unladylike and will run off and cheat on you if given half a chance. Same sorts of judgment calls. Some of these guys were okay with those things, or seemed to be, but got really uncomfortable when RJ flipped the script.Now don't get me wrong. I was uncomfortable with these at first, myself. I do think he lays it on a bit thick in places, even now. But I also really appreciate what he's doing. We so often see misogyny in fiction that flipping things around a bit is really, really jarring. And there is still misogyny on full display in this series as well, since some men have some pretty simplified and silly ways of looking at women. In fact, I could go on for quite a bit about gender relations in general, but suffice it to say that while they're interesting, they're also pretty bumpy and imperfect and frustrating. But I found it interesting just how many men get upset at all the sexism when they weren't showing that they were upset when they read it before being taken out on females. It's one of those sociological things I tend to pull apart and analyze for fun because that's something I do.I'm also one of those people who was not shocked by one female Aes Sedai having multiple warders, even when those warders may very well have had a sexual relationship with the woman. Also completely okay with sister-wives and whatnot, polyamory in general, so long as all involved are aware of where they stand, are adults, and are okay with it. It may not be for me personally, but that's nothing more or less than personal preference. I have friends who are polyamorous and it's never been an issue, nor would it be. I used to not get it at all. Now I...kind of get it, and I commend Jordan for at least trying to touch on it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580351/#p580351 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-14
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books right you are it's quite hard to compare those things lotr is different and fiew on earth can really create something like that again, but I really would enjoy reading the sword of shannara though. I guess it's not a bad of a series, also if you like the questing part may be you should try dragon lance the first book. I liked the pros in that book, and the character development, but it seems more like all of them allready have something in thir past that is going sooner or later to make them special. They are of different species Tenis for example is a half elf, . It's quite easy to understand, and quite stereotipical in a way.now, what do you guys thing? are we really going to have a tv adaptation of the wheel of time? would it be made by amazon? would it be an anime? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580343/#p580343 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Cw, I cannot really be absolutely objective about lord of the rings, because I was so young when I was first introduced to it. It's something I've grown up with, reread every few years, been through various adaptations from the 1980 BBC radio play, to the Ralf Backshy animation, to of course the Peter Jackson films. What I find particularly fascinating about Lotr is that everytime I reread it, no matter how much writing and reading experience I gain, I just find myself in ore of what Tolkien did. The book certainly has it's flaws of course, but every time I reread it, I find another great point in writing, another point of description I like, a way a particular character is drawn, the way the events tie back to older bits of the world and legendarium etc.George R R Martin, in his autobiography, once said that upon reading Lord of the rings, his overwhelming thought was "I cannot write something like this!" He'd read books he liked before this, , indeed Martin is very much a reader's writer, however with Lord of the rings, he honestly felt, and apparently still feels, literally in ore of the creation Tolkien made, even with all he's achieved. So, all that being said, not wheel of time, nor much else is much like Lord of the rings imho, because nothing really is, indeed trying to immitate lord of the rings without Tolkien's strengths as a schollar or a writer is a mistake many less good fantasy authors make, rather than trying to build something of their own which is unique, (terry Brooks, I'm looking at you).So, Wheel of time is not strictly speaking "like!" lord of the rings, even though Jordan makes many conscious nods to lord of the rings. What wheel of time is, is a story which seems to start out with the standard "farm boy discovers he's going to confront the dark lord and save the world, along side his loyal companions" type of story, which then pretty quickly evolves into something much more complicated, with innumerable factions, political interplay between it's characters, a lot of mistrust, backstabbing and general wheeling and dealing and a very complex world and culture, with different lands, fashions, peoples and idiologies, some of which we get to explore in detail. The cosmological aspects of the world serve rather more to emphasise why the world is the way it is, why characters behave as they do and what the ultimate goal is, rather than existing as something that can be explored on it's own. For instance, WoT happens in a world where magic is split into female and male specific forms, but where (due to an ancient cataclysm), any men who attempt to use magic go insane. Therefore, it is a world where gender relations are often different from those of our own world, both politically, (there are far more queendoms and female only institutions), and individually rather a lot of bickering, and even married couples constantly mistrusting one another, (if you don't like kiss kiss, slap slap, love hate relationships, this series will annoy you, since really there are very few nice natured, none confrontational couples in the entire series, and even one of those has to share her husband with two other women some of this is great, indeed I love the cultural exploration and the way characters evolve and change throughout the series, indeed one of my personal favourite climaxes in the series simply involves the main character making a personal discovery. Some of this is irritating, I've mentioned the constant bickering and mistrust, and imho the series does get to a slump in the middle where there are far too many characters and perspectives and the main plots are running too slowly. The series does get into some uncomfortable territory on occasion, albeit it seems almost fluffy when compared to game of thrones. Sometimes this is intentional, being nasty challenges the characters need to go through, sometimes it unfortunately just seemed Jordan had slightly weird ideas which resulted in less pleasant stuff (the man has a rather disturbing thing about spanking, also a very nasty, abusive relationship played entirely for laughs at one point).On the other hand, the writing is just amazing in places, there are battles, gorgeous bits of description and characters you grow very attached to, all of that good stuffMy lady absolutely adores the series (indeed on her last reread, she said the books 6-10 slump was far less slumpy to her in general, and several plotlines which fans tend to have a downer on were pretty okay).Actually when she just turned up while I was writing this post, when I told her I was trying to describe WoT to someone who hadn't read it, her response was "Yes, tell him to read it!" . trying to compare Wheel of time and lord of the rings would be pretty difficult. On the other hand, simply speaking as someone whose read a lot of books, is trying to write himself, and pretends, (at least as fa
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I am thinking about reading TWOT AKA the wheel of time based on this topic. Seems like a good read. Question for dark. Do you7 like lord of the rings or the wheel of time better dark? Is the world in wheel of time just as well thought out? One of the things I liked about lord of the rings is that there is a question on how things would have had went differently if they kept the ring. Ok ok ok, that one is most likely an easy enough answer to guess. Thing is that pretty much all of the questions about the world of LOTR is answered in the story itself or in the appendences of the book. Yes, it does have the christen type base. It is not as detailed is the science fiction book series the expanse though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580153/#p580153 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @khomus, I'm afraid the only name in WoT I would personally accept as a direct "well you really could've tried harder", is Shytan for the dark one, since that is the only case where you have a literal paralell of someone who fulfills the exact same roll as the mythological namesake, and even in that case, mostly the dark one is referd to as, well the dark one .There are some vague others, EG the names of the forsaken sort of paralelling some evil entities, but, the beings in question, and the paralells are far more abstruse, EG Graendal obviously sounds a bit like Grendel, the monster from Beowulf, though the characters couldn't be more different. Other relationships are far less clear, I already mentioned lord Gabril (who is not the least angellic), then there is indeed a young prince called Garwin, and though he goes on a rather doomed quest and has a highly developed sense of honour, there are no green knights or the like. the only names I strongly disliked myself, were rand's last name of Al.Thor, because clearly the audience were obviously too dum to work out how awesome he was so needed reminding of the norse god of thunder :d. The name of the forsaken Demandred, because obviously someone with a name which literally sounds like Demon dread is clearly an ambiguous and complex character and not a bad guy at all . And for a rather similar reason the name mordeth, though in that case the way Mat was so quick to trust an incredibly creepy guy with creepy written all over him in huge creepy letters, whose name is literally more! death! was actually sort of funny .@Wing of eternity: there are several stories which act as flashbacks, such as Patric Rothfus kinkiller, which is basically a long interview with the main character about his life story, and Coraline, which is the story of a man remembering his childhood. However, the only story I've seen which is almost literally written backwards is use of weapons by Ian M Banks, which I do confess I never quite got into. It begins at chapter 1, then follows chapter xxviii, then chapter 2, then chapter xxvii, until at the end you have chapter 28, and chapter I. it sort of tells two stories in paralell, one backwards, one forwards, with you needing to connect the dots. As with a lot of Ian M Banks though, it's extremely difficult, indeed probably the most difficult of his I've ever read, and one I need to try again, as well as being grim as hell, occasionally pointless, and strangely beautiful, with amazing sf concepts and philosophical discussions right beside strange aliens, space battles and a really difficult need to piece together what the hell is going on. banks is an author I actually can't decide whether I like or not, since some of his stuff, Look to windward, inversions, player of games I've really enjoyed, whilst Consider phlebas and against a dark background were so grim and full of pointless random unresolvedness I wanted to break something . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/580015/#p580015 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Dark: Again, I feel like you think I'm making some deep analysis here, like I think because he used these names it's just gonna be this cookie cutter plot right out of Christianity. That's not it at all. I'm just bummed about the names. It's like he's not even trying. It's like he's going, hey I need a name for somebody who betrays somebody, ah ha, I've got it, Benedict Arnold!I'm not suggesting that his betrayal is going to mirror the real life Benedict Arnold's story. I'm just super bummed that's the amount of effort, or lack thereof, that he put into choosing names. It feels like that's the level we're on, at least in this first book, and it bums me right the hell out. It's an especially stark contrast because he *does* have lots of names that aren't like that, or don't do that. Artur Hawkwing, though I know exactly what he's drawing on, doesn't bother me nearly as much. Nor does the appropriation of mythology, I love the Book of Three stuff, and Lloyd Alexander just lifted names wholesale from Welsh mythology, concepts too. The black cauldron is right out of the second branch of the Mabinogion. He did his own thing with the warriors, all the Mabinogion says is that they're resurrected but can't speak. They're not supposed to be undead, per Alexander, they're resurrected humans who lack the power of speech in the original.So yeah, it's not that he's mutilating mythology, or that I expect his plot to slavishly mirror a myth. It's that I feel like he took the absolutely easiest and simplest path with some of those names and where they belong in his cosmology. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579990/#p579990 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-13
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books sorry for the double post, but I was curious if you guys know of any series that starts actually in revers. It starts with the end of the story, and at the end of the series you will have the begining. If you don't know any then, may be a series that is more concentrated on races, more new and intresting races?Races and their way of interuction and such, .: eddit: I am sure that everyone is thinking that this must be an evil plot for me to get 220 posts, that's why I double posted, right? This is for sure an evil, devious dark concocted plot to give me such a number of posts. Surely the hand of satan made me do it, we know he loves numbers that end with 0. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579974/#p579974 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-13
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books sorry for the double post, but I was curious if you guys know of any series that starts actually in revers. It starts with the end of the story, and at the end of the series you will have the begining. If you don't know any then, may be a series that is more concentrated on races, more new and intresting races?Races and their way of interuction and such, . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579974/#p579974 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-13
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I guess we can all agree that using mythology sources and ideeas in a book is admirable, and should be done, combined with complex characters that pass the archetipel good vs evil storyes, and great geography and such. Keep in mind that Tolkien had to work with races, I don't really know but in Wot we don't actually have to many races. But the world makes up for this deficiency by using complicated politica/cultural skymmes, and such. Jordan as dark said can use very well elements such as the darma wheel for the wheel of time, from hindu mythology. Tolkien had his own languages, and jordan has a bit of language made, but not enough to make let's say a complete grammer, with sentances and all. May be the paralels with names are intentional, I really enjoy finding such peralels, for me it makes the hole mythological process far more intresting. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579970/#p579970 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @khomus, I find it a little odd that you praise Tolkienn's cosmology, which does nothing to hide it's christian influences (Tolkien was a Catholic after all), and then essentially, dam jordan for the same thing, even though Jordan's cosmology, other than in some of it's names, is far less obviously Christian influenced than Tolkien's. For example, a major point in WoT, is the idea of reincarnation, both in the sense of time being cyclic (it's in the title of the series), and in a more literal sense as in fact you'll find out.Contrast this with Tolkien who has a literal understanding of death, and (in earlier draughts of his cosmology), even concepts of heaven, hell and purgatory. Oh, and btw, the Dark one, despite the name Shytan couldn't be more different, indeed you don't exactly find out what the dark one's true intensions are until the very last book of the series, and they are awesomely, and interestingly nasty, indeed one of my favourite sequences in the hole cycle. It is true that in the eye of the world at least, Jordan was consciously mirroring the idea of Lotr, and the standard, "farm boy saves the world from ultimate evil", type of story, even though WoT quickly gravitates very much away from that and becomes something quite different.Indeed, one of the most interesting things about WoT as a series, is that though it is supposedly a monolythic battle against good and evil, at the same time, there are so many factions, interests, political intricacies. There are those supposedly working for the good guys who do horrible things, those who believe their way of combatting the dark one must be correct, those who are simply out for themselves or their way of life, even among the villains, there is a huge amount of bakstabbing and conniving, and points where the villains end up scuppering each other's plans, or even help out some of the good guys when it suits them, and if you like military fiction, you'll be seeing some of that in the series too. Jordan unfortunately didn't write much else, since WoT took up so much time. He apparently published a couple of Westerns which are less my thing. he also wrote several Conan the Barbarian stories, which are about as silly and at times uncomfortable to read as most Conan stories, though imho not having any of the moments of beauty the howard originals sometimes have, and less excusable for questionable attitudes being written in the eighties, I don't think I've heard so many synonyms for ladies of the evening in one place! .Indeed when I first started WoT, having just read Jordan's Conan, I was actually expecting something a bit more like Terry Goodkind's sword of truth, something less complex with fairly archetypal characters, good for a bit of light amusement but not really something with a serious world or complex characters behind it, (wow! was I wrong!). Interestingly enough, Jordan's first unpublished novel, Warrior of the Altaii, was recently released. I've not read it yet myself. My lady read it, and despite being a massive WoT Fan girl, really! disliked it. She said there were hints at what Jordan would become later, but generally the book read far more like the conan stories, and was quite needlessly nasty in parts.She said it was interesting to read as an author's first effort, but she wouldn't be reading it again, in contrast to WoT which she's already read three times, not counting at least three reread blogs she's a regular reader of, and will probably read yet again! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579965/#p579965 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Dark: I think you're still misunderstanding me a bit. It's not about religion, like I think this is all secretly Christianity, like he's a closet C. S. Lewis who doesn't have the guts to come out and go "here's some Christianity for you". It's not that I think he's preaching. It's that, so far, I find it kind of trite. You're drawing on world mythologies, yeah? Why stick with, admittedly somewhat obscure, Western demonology? For instance, this battle, as I understand it, goes all throughout time yeah? Why not pick, say, Mara, who in Buddhist cosmology is associated with death, rebirth, and desire, which is bad in Buddhism?Because I mean, there you go. The Dark or The Dark One or whoever Ba'alzamon's working for or thinks he's working for surely desires something, or if nothing else Ba'alzamon does. Or why not just make up all your own names? My point isn't that there's religion secretly buried, or morality for that matter. My point is, wow, you had the mythologies of the world to choose from, or you could have invented your own names, and this is the trite hackwork you came up with? The Dark One is Satan? Really? OK then. You picked the absolute easiest option possible. You may as well have named them Universal Evil and Really Bad Dude and been done with it.In contrast, let's take Tolkien, and let's take the Silmarillion, the one nobody can read because it's too boring. If you read the creation of the universe, which isn't that long, it's riddled with parallels to Christianity. There's God, Iluvatar. I doubt this is the case because Tolkien invented his own languages, but note the end of the name, -vatar, clearly parallel, possibly unconsciously, to the various Indo-European words for father. Iluvatar is obviously a direct parallel to the Christian god. There's a fallen angel, Melkor, who takes others with him into rebellion. However, note the interesting differences, creation by song, Melkor rebels by trying to make his own music, which Iluvatar encompasses anyway, even after Melkor is ultimately kicked out. Melkor's rebellion is different than the standard story of Satan, he lures other Valar and Mayar away, they don't all rebel against Iluvatar at once. Nevertheless, the parallels with Christianity are pretty direct and apparent, e.g. the Valar and Mayar are ultimately angels, as it were, not gods.I think Tolkien did his own take on it all. I'd be happier with a much more non-Christian cosmology, or for the parallels to be a bit less direct, but there's still enough difference there to hold my interest, and produce interesting questions, e.g. how might things be different if we had Tolkien's story of the music, rather than the one about a war we have now?P.S. Jordan, this is pretty interesting, was actually a nuclear engineer, for the US Navy no less, not a historian. He apparently was pretty into history personally, but that wasn't what he did. Who knew? Given his background, I'm surprised he didn't turn out military SF or something instead. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579953/#p579953 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Just want to emend Dark's last point a wee bit.WoT does have lesbian characters and bisexual characters as well. It's hinted at with the Aes Sedai, and admitted openly in some places (the concept of "pillow friends", plus characters like Galina and Seonid). There are offhand suggestions that the Aiel are at least nominally okay with polyamory even amid women. Now, with that said, I don't recall many openly gay characters in this series, and this, I think, was a weakness for Jordan. Now don't get me wrong, I don't need every male character to be gay, not by any means. I don't think that would represent a norm unless it was culturally relevant, and here it is not. But you virtually never see it. The only homosexual or bisexual stuff we see involves women, and even then, it's kind of kept quiet.Otherwise, I agree re: simplification of genders, couples bickering, etc. The only couple I actively like in the main series involves Min, put it that way. I get frustrated or straight-up annoyed at all the others. Later in the series, Andral and Pevara are quite good as well, but you can definitely feel Sanderson at work there. Sanderson's couples aren't award-winners either, even in his own series, but they're better than Jordan's.Yeah, I promise you that the allusions get fewer and farther between, and they're not pound-for-pound rip-offs of mythology. Some of the names will catch you and make you think of other mythologies, sur, but that's not true of everyone. For instance, the names of all of the forsaken, in no particular order: Ishamael, Sammael, Demandred, Asmodeon, Rahvin, Balthamel, Belaal, Aginor, Lanfear, Moghedien, Mesaana, Semirhage, Graendal. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579894/#p579894 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @khomus, again, it depends upon what you want. The names in WoT have similarities, but the characters do not. Ishamael, and ba'alzamon have very different origins in WoT than in Abrahamaic religion, especially when the truth behind both becomes a little more clear later in the series, heck, there is a very nasty piece of work later in the series called Gabril, and though Artur Hawkwing was indeed a legendary hero, those working supposedly to uphold his legacy are anything but heroic .(actually, my lady, who is a fan of angels was counting the other day the amount of possibly angelic names in WoT, and how many of these belong to decidedly un angelic characters).WoT, also borrows a lot from none christian mythologies, EG the Ais-sidai symbol, two sided magic and the principles of Yin and Yang, as well as the cosmological idea of a repeating wheel of time, which is a decidedly eastern idea (especially combined with the idea of reincarnation).Again though, it depends upon what you want in a story. For me, unless the author is expressly and specifically making a definite point about religion or culture stated in the narrative C S Lewis, Terry Goodkind or Robert Heinlein style, I'm usually content to just let a story be a story, let a fantasy world be a very decidedly fantasy world (especially in as culturally diverse a fantasy world as WoT, with it's various nations, fashions, peoples, alliances etc), and when there is a mythological or cultural significance to a given element, just say "oh look, so and so borrowed this thing from mythology", or the like. I don't need every story to have an express moral, or believe in a meta narative, indeed I tend to prefer it when they don't, and find them much more effective when they let me think and decide for myself, since while I love reading fiction, I'm less keen on being preached at, so won't tend to go and look for preaching where it doesn't exist, or try to trip up an author's beliefs for daring to be different from mine, so long as the author doesn't try to ram those beliefs down my throat. Hell, even if an author and I do! agree on things, if the author preaches at me too much, I'm likely to enjoy the book less, as happened with Becky Chambers most recent novella.As I've said before, In WoT, I do not like the gendered cosmology, I also get rather sick of the way Jordan tends to depict couples as constantly bickering and mistrusting each other in an often literal battle of the sexes. Also, for such a large and otherwise highly diverse world there is a decided lack of gay characters, or cultures who accept homosexuality readily (I personally could always imagine the Aieel with their warrior societies as having acceptance of homosexual relationships among it's military). However, does any of this stop me enjoying the story or thinking it's an amazingly awesome fantasy epic, and highly worth reading? Hell no! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579882/#p579882 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books It's not so much that he's borrowing mythology. It's not that he's making a lot of Christian parallels, as such. It's that so far, all of the evil people come pretty directly out of Judeo-Christian mythology and demonology, here we can't just say Abrahamic because we have to exclude Islam in some cases. Ba'alzamon is clearly based on a Canaanite deity, Ba'al (lord) of some place, I could chase it down if I really felt like it. Possibly Ba'al Zaphon, Ba'al of Mt. Zaphon. Ba'al is seen as a direct rival to Yahweh in the Old testament. here's Shaitan in the prologue, Jordan might spell it slightly differently I'm too lazy to go and check, which is just the Islamic spelling of Heb. ha satan, the adversary. Ishamael is another evil person, or possibly another name for Ba'alzamon, again too lazy, and here's where we have to exclude Islam, because Ishmael is seen as the ancestor of Muslims. He's also in the Bible, and though he's not particularly evil as such, you don't hear about him a whole lot after he's born because he's sort of the older outcast brother of the ancestor of Jacob, i.e. Israel.I get that the whole point is that, since the war or whatever the hell it is has been going on literally for the whole history of forever, we're supposed to find all of these resonances with our own world. That's actually kind of clever. I just think it's sad that, so far, seemingly the best we can do is "hey you know those evil deities and/or questionable people our traditions aren't really that fond of? Turns out they were right"! (insert spooky noise here)I just got to the part where they found the steading in Eye. So far, I'm still pretty meh, verging on dislike. This slant on mythology is not helping anything. I really feel, right now, like I'm going to get through this again and go, "yeah, do I really want to read another one"? I guess it doesn't help that I'm already up in the air and people are telling me I need to read two or maybe even three or four books to really get into the thing and see what it's like, you know? That seems, you'll pardon me for saying so, quite the damn slog just to get the real flavor of this universe.I feel like maybe that's a bug, not a feature. Still, like I said, there were a couple things I wanted to maybe see more of, right now Loyal's about all I can think of, so we'll see. I will say the nice thing is that it's been long enough since I've read that, though I have a rough outline in my head, it still feels new enough that I'm not reading it going, yeah that thing, and then this happens, and then ... So at least I'm not bored in that sense. Still, I find myself not really caring all that much about what ultimately happens to this pack of idiots so far, and I'm pretty sure that's where I ended up last time too. Good narrator though. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579838/#p579838 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-12
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @jayde well said I can also say that I don't know if perin has a hammer where I am he has an ax not a hammer, but may be he will get one. when I am talking about the prophecy I want to refer to the ais sedai in general, not just to the red ajah. Where did this idea with the carethian cycle come from? was it a a channeler who came with it>? was it just discovered by someone we don't know? I am curious to know. because in the great hunt there was a scene where the Amyrlin seat says something to morain that the prophecy contradicts aes sedai. and I want to know what she meant by that. also, can someone give me an article or something about jordan. I couldn't find much about his inspiration on wikipedia, may be I should search some more. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579717/#p579717 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Two things:1. Wheel of Time uses more than just Christian stuff. For instance, Perrin and his hammer just as one example that leaps up and bites me. Jordan was a history buff. I'm not at all surprised he did this.2. As far as prophecy and the like? The Red Ajah were always going to have trouble with the Dragon, since he was going to be a man who could channel. However, a lot of people hate the Red Ajah because of how anti-male and anti-channeller they are (also a lot of them are jerks)...but here's the thing. At the time of the breaking, they were probably the single most useful Ajah of the seven purely because they were the ones who took on the biggest burden. It's just that however many of thousands of years later, they're nearly redundant. Their aim, I think, was to capture the Dragon, and to make sure that whatever he did was tightly controlled. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579703/#p579703 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-12
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @dark and khomus, well I would and I actually really do like when books get mythological . They can provide a bit background to a culture, and we know that culture development is a steping stone when it comes to the WoT universe. I would also like to argue that be propheci of the dragon can be similar to the apocalipse in the bible, namely Revelation of S.T John. it's said thht when christ will come on earth every eye would see him, and he shall come in times of tribulation when no nation would understand the word of god anymore. so it's with the dragon reborn, he shall be the one who comes with the dawn and shall r=break and save the world. But there is a difference, well, in the case of the dragon we don't really know if he will save the world the prophecy sais that he may or may not save it. But at the same time it says that he shall destroy the dark one.so christ it's said that he would let Satan do his game , and when the time will be right, then he will clame what's of the blood of god. But Rand defenetly is more intresting then the prophecy , that's what makes the thing so cool really.also, does anyone know why do they ai-s sedai really listen to what the prophecy says ? aand who made this prophecy? was it made by an Aes Sedai? why do they believe in it, if they constantly try to destroy any male channeler? . Certainly the red ageh do . but how did this prophecy really originate? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579696/#p579696 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @khomus, many of the names have mythological origins or analogues, but the mythos is very rarely borrowed hole sale, EG The dark one is not a fallen angel or the like, Ba'alzamon is actually a guy who just went particularly evil, there is certainly no christ analogue, and though the hero has his messianic moments, they are dealt with in a rather different way. Then again, I never really mind appropriation of ideas in a fantasy setting so long as the author is telling an interesting story and doing something interesting with them, heck in memory sorrow and Thorn, Tad williams pretty much borrows certain cultures and idea hole sale, including nordic and catholic christianity, but since the story's main elements involve semi immortal rather alien elf like creatures, and one very renigade undead elf prince who wants to destroy the world in revenge, the historical/mythological cultural borrowing is pretty much just background. The only time it irritates me, is when mythology spoils the story, say when a character just becomes an uninteresting hit things type of figure under the disguise of the author making mythological parallels, or when the author's attempt to cram in and reference mythology pushes other elements of the story to one side. I was actually really bothered by this in Guy Gavril Kay's Fionavar tapastry. The first book is an incredibly good fantasy about five graduate students getting sucked into another world and participating in a war against that worlds' dark lord. The second however, suddenly introduces Arthur himself, and Lancelot, and makes one of the principle characters into Guinevere, a character who had a lot of journeying to do on her own. Unfortunately from that point, while the main cast still have things to do (accept the poor girl who pretty much ends up mind subsumed into Guinevere), we also have to have Arthur and Lancelot riding around being awesome and playing out the old triangle. the writing is lovely, and Lancelot in particular has some really awesome moments (including an incredible duel against an earth guardian), however, I really didn't want! Arthur or Lancelot's stories at that point, I wanted to see the five characters from our own world be awesome and stop the darkness and go on their own journeys, as they had in the first book. again, both Williams and Kay did this in their first fantasies and changed things later, so whether it was a reliance on established myth I don't know. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579451/#p579451 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I'm rereading Eye too, and man, now I remember the other problem I had with it. Just the wholesale adoption of Christian/ancient Near Eastern demonology. Gee, I wonder where Ba'alzamon came from? Ishamael's a real deep mystery too! We already got Shaitan in the prologue. It just makes me sad. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579416/#p579416 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @44 try Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson. Specifically, books 1 to 3. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/579193/#p579193 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books With all due respect here, it's fine to know what part of the story you're at, and if you are or are not enjoying something...but we probably don't need a recap of the last couple of chapters unless it's somehow salient to a greater point you're making.If you think these three or four separated parties are a lot already, just wait till the middle of the series. lol You'll be juggling way, way more than that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/577078/#p577078 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-10-04
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I am going to read more of the eye of the world those days. The things are geting quite hited. Perrin is still traveling with Alias , and the wolf, and they found a safe place from the ravens, a place where the aes sedai can't find them , and the dark one's spys can't rich since they have been folowed by ravens. For mat and Rand the situation is worsening, they ran from white brige , and Tom the gliman sacreficed himself for their safety. Not long after Moraaain arived there , and asked of them , but they were allready gon. I believe that Tom is still alive. Moiraine said that she can't folow them., but there is someone that she can help that someone I think it's tom. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/577073/#p577073 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I actually largely agree with Jacob Held's article. I've read it before but just read it again.The Eye of the World consciously or unconsciously borrows a great deal from Tolkien, just as Wizard's First Rule does (albeit to a slightly lesser extent). If I had read Eye of the World cold, the similarities to The Fellowship of the Ring would have bothered me quite a bit, actually. It wouldn't have made me abandon the series...but yeah. Lots of similarity.But there's also lots of difference, and clearly as he spreads his wings, Jordan starts to really do things for himself. Politics becomes a central focus. We get bad-guy points of view and can sorta see what they're up to. The world seems far less alien and mysterious and empty, and far more on the tipping-point. Rather than this one single wizard who is kept apart from and above all the other characters, we start to realize that these entities are fallible, mortal and very, very human. And that's where WoT becomes its own creation: huge, flawed, beautiful, intricate, a little bloated, a little inconsistent, but very much its own thing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/574123/#p574123 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-09-25
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : michaelhoffman1976 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I absolutely love the witcher books. sure they can bog you down at times with detail but they're great. another series you should try, and there's currently two books in it is by Jonathan French. it's called the lot lands. it's actually about half-orcs i think? a mercenary company called the gray bastards. I guess it's grim dark but good grim dark. I struggled through Jordan's books 6 through 10 and i won't say they were exactly boring just.. long winded and.. sometimes i felt meandering . I've never read memory, sorrow and thorn. I started to but didn't finish i'm not sure why. I tired to get into robin hobbs farseer trilogy but had trouble with the first book. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/574031/#p574031 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-09-25
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @dark, I completely agreed the article is horible, but the ideea about originality may be is not that bad, but I found another thing, which can be said it's an intresting take on WoT.https://www.tor.com/2009/11/13/east-is- … l-of-time/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/574011/#p574011 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I'm afraid Wing of iturnity, that blog article I find down right incorrect as regards Robert Jordan, since saying Jordan is in any sense similar to Tolkien, is like saying chilly con cani is like beef Stroganov. Both are stews with beef and often served with rice, both you eat with a spoon, however every single other element is absolutely different. Jordan did begin consciously with the fantasy quest opening, and has a fair few nods to Tolkien in the text (such as the inn called the nine rings, and the trollocks), however any resemblance to Tolkien's structure or world building pretty much goes out of the window by the second book.There is a lot of derivative fantasy out there, either consciously or accidently, but WoT certainly isn't that, and for my thoughts on derivative fantasy, see the above link I posted to my article on formulae. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/574003/#p574003 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-09-25
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books look what horible article I found.https://andphilosophy.com/2014/07/09/wh … hilosophy/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/574000/#p574000 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-09-25
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AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @dark, I love the expanded universe, it has more complexity to it, then the disney kannon thing. and episodes 87, 8, and 9. that's why I recommanded you the darth bane trilogy, it explains more the sith way, and it even has some great jedi scenes, and in book 2 you get chapters from the perspectives of jedi. You are right, darth sidious uses this argument, to justefy conversion to the darkside, .He uses it to manipulate people like Anakin to do his will. There is another character called Vergere whom makes Jason Solo turn to the dark side and become darth Kydus.I should reread the eushanvong wars period, it's much different then what you see in disney star wars. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573986/#p573986 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-09-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @dark, I love the expanded universe, it has more complexity to it, then the disney kannon thing. and episodes 87, 8, and 9. that's why I recommanded you the darth bane trilogy, it explains more the sith way, and it even has some great jedi scenes, and in book 2 you get chapters from the perspectives of jedi. You are right, darth sidious uses this argument, to justefy conversion to the darkside, .He uses it to manipulate people like Anakin to do his will. There is another character called Vergere whom makes Jason Solo turn to the dark side and become darth Kydus. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573986/#p573986 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books There's a scene in book 5 of WoT where Lanfear shows up and basically starts hurling death. Gives me chills even though I know how it's going to go.There's also a scene in book 4, several of them actually, where we realize another female forsaken, while not as straight-up powerful as Lanfear, is hella tricky. Also, compulsion. Yipe yipe! Scary shit, yo.One of my favourite characters as far as the Aes Sedai go is actually Verin Mathwin, for reasons I won't get into here. Suffice it to say that she isn't especially strong, but she's exceedingly clever. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573981/#p573981 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @wing of eternity, I'm no expert on the starwars extended universe, but I have heard the idea that the dark and light sides are not as blatantly good or evil. However, the problem is those who expound this theory tend to be people like darth sidius who are usually tempting others to do evil things or use the dark side more anyway, rather the way that a psychopath might espouse nihilism to justify their actions, and in the films themselves, even when people start out with good intentions using the dark side, as Anakin did in attempting to save the lives of his wife and daughter, this unquestionably goes wrong. WoT's power is %100 different on this point, indeed throughout the series you see good and evil channelers of both types, albeit fewer male channellers over all due to the taint, and some pretty unpleasant things done with both Saidar and Saidin.I actually remember applauding the first time I saw one of the female forsaken turn up and be bloody scary with Saidar, since as I said, I fully expected Jordan to make the power levels and capabilities between the two halves of the power unequal, and was pleased when he didn't. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573970/#p573970 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-09-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I am looking for someone like emperor Vitiate who became imortal and had a different perspective then jedi or sith, or a kind of darth Nihilus who devowerd entire worlds to feed his hunger for life force. if you didn't notice my signature is from Vitiate him self. and regarding the force, there is a theory that suggests that nither the dark nore the light are good or evil. But few characters truly believe in this ideea. here is the quote“No doubt the texts I’ve provided contain references to the so-called Potentium theory—that light and dark depend on the intention of the user. This is yet another perversion of the truth perpetrated by those who would keep us shackled to the Force. The power of water and the power of fire are entirely different. Glaciers and volcanoes both have the potential to transform landscapes, but one does so by burying what lies beneath, where the other spews forth new terrain. The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design."this quote is said by darth plagueis to his apprentice darth Sidious, which was just begining his journy as a sith lord. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573966/#p573966 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-09-25
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I am looking for someone like emperor Vitiate who became imortal and had a different perspective then jedi or sith, or a kind of darth Nihilus who devowerd entire worlds to feed his hunger for life force. if you didn't notice my signature is from Vitiate him self. and regarding the force, there is a theory that suggests that nither the dark nore the light are good or evil. But few characters truly believe in this ideea. here is the quote“No doubt the texts I’ve provided contain references to the so-called Potentium theory—that light and dark depend on the intention of the user. This is yet another perversion of the truth perpetrated by those who would keep us shackled to the Force. The power of water and the power of fire are entirely different. Glaciers and volcanoes both have the potential to transform landscapes, but one does so by burying what lies beneath, where the other spews forth new terrain. The Sith are not placid stars but singularities. Rather than burn with muted purpose, we warp space and time to twist the galaxy to our own design." URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573966/#p573966 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @khomus, as regards WoT, I'd suggest starting with eye of the world and only reading new spring around book 5 or so. It's well worth reading, indeed it was reading new spring in the legends collection that first got my lady into the series, but it isn't the easiest place to start, plus Jordan was fairly good at introducing the world slowly. As I said in This article, the problem I find in formulaeic writing is predictability killing story tension. If you know that a certain character is always safe because they are a main character, or that the good guys are going to get out of a situation because they're the good guys, then tension has gone out of the window. Eddings, even though he was writing very much in the standard good guys heroes journey mold, did have a very nice habit of having character who did not necessarily know they were going to get out of a given situation, so you could empathise with what they were feeling in that situation. while Even though conan basically is a massive succeedinator who wins at everything, Robert E Howard had a gift for language and poetry that shines through (Indeed I love several of his poems), though in Conan particularly, the rants about women needing to be submissive and obedient (along with the amount of slave girls), and about how white people are unquestionably superior, do make me wince a lot, since the books are unquestionably preachy, and what they are preaching in places is an extremely repellent mindset, albeit one with a historical context (the books are nearly 100 years old after all). this is why, though I've read the odd individual conan story, I can't take too many of them at once, and much prefer to stick to Howard's poetry.Eddings tended to avoid as much preaching in his main series even if he did have certain assumptions about men and women that grate on occasion, though in certain of his prequal novels (especially Polgara the sorceress), the times when we're openly told about the big dumb brutish men being overseen by the strident cunning little women, it did get a bit urcsome. Then again with any author, modern ones included, I'd much rather read a good story than just get an opinion preached to me, and much rather have complex 3 dimensional characters than cardboard props for the author's opinions.As to Pern, well McCaffery is very hit and miss, when she's on she's on, when she's off she isn't. I'm doing a slow reread of her dragon riders series putting the reviews on fantasybookreview.co.uk. I tend to find ironically that those books which are character focused, like the harper hall trilogy, tend to be much more fun than those which try to be political stories, like the main series. McCaffery also suffer rather badly from a kind of idealism found to a lesser extent in authors like Mercedes lackey, where you hear about someone doing something bad, the good guys get together, and the person doing the bad thing is just politically talked out of it before you actually see the bad thing happen, or likewise, on the rare occasions you see something bad happen to someone, well usually they go and tell the authorities who are unquestionably good, and someone puts a stop to it. it's actually sort of refreshing, MCCaffery has problems like mismanagement, abuse of power and bullying dealt with in the way that we would hope they could be dealt with in reality, rather than what actually happens . This unfortunately makes a lot of her books less than tense to read, and means she's generally better when dealing with individual character experiences, hence why the harper hall trilogy, which are basically just the story of one girl's attempts to be accepted as a musician in the heavily sexist hidebound medieval culture of pern, actually work far better than when she's trying to show political plots or power plays. As to the immortality question, mostly I've seen that occur in science fiction or urban fantasy rather than in epic WoT style fantasy myself, although it's a question even Tolkien deals with with the elves. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573962/#p573962 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @khomus, as regards WoT, I'd suggest starting with eye of the world and only reading new spring around book 5 or so. It's well worth reading, indeed it was reading new spring in the legends collection that first got my lady into the series, but it isn't the easiest place to start, plus Jordan was fairly good at introducing the world slowly. As I said in This article, the problem I find in formulaeic writing is predictability killing story tension. If you know that a certain character is always safe because they are a main character, or that the good guys are going to get out of a situation because they're the good guys, then tension has gone out of the window. Eddings, even though he was writing very much in the standard good guys heroes journey mold, did have a very nice habit of having character who did not necessarily know they were going to get out of a given situation, so you could empathise with what they were feeling in that situation. while Even though conan basically is a massive succeedinator who wins at everything, Robert E Howard had a gift for language and poetry that shines through (Indeed I love several of his poems), though in Conan particularly, the rants about women needing to be submissive and obedient (along with the amount of slave girls), and about how white people are better at everything, do make me wince a fair amount since the books are unquestionably preachy, and what they are preaching in places is a fairly repellent mindset, albeit one with a historical context (the books are nearly 100 years old after all).Eddings tended to avoid as much preaching in his main series even if he did have certain assumptions about men and women that grate on occasion, though in certain of his prequal novels (especially Polgara the sorceress), the times when we're openly told about the big dumb brutish men being overseen by the strident cunning little women, it did get a bit urcsome. Then again with any author, modern ones included, I'd much rather read a good story than just get an opinion preached to me, and much rather have complex 3 dimensional characters than cardboard props for the author's opinions.As to Pern, well McCaffery is very hit and miss, when she's on she's on, when she's off she isn't. I'm doing a slow reread of her dragon riders series putting the reviews on fantasybookreview.co.uk. I tend to find ironically that those books which are character focused, like the harper hall trilogy, tend to be much more fun than those which try to be political stories, like the main series. McCaffery also suffer rather badly from a kind of idealism found to a lesser extent in authors like Mercedes lackey, where you hear about someone doing something bad, the good guys get together, and the person doing the bad thing is just politically talked out of it before you actually see the bad thing happen, or likewise, on the rare occasions you see something bad happen to someone, well usually they go and tell the authorities who are unquestionably good, and someone puts a stop to it. it's actually sort of refreshing, MCCaffery has problems like mismanagement, abuse of power and bullying dealt with in the way that we would hope they could be dealt with in reality, rather than what actually happens . This unfortunately makes a lot of her books less than tense to read, and means she's generally better when dealing with individual character experiences, hence why the harper hall trilogy, which are basically just the story of one girl's attempts to be accepted as a musician in the heavily sexist hidebound medieval culture of pern, actually work far better than when she's trying to show political plots or power plays. As to the immortality question, mostly I've seen that occur in science fiction or urban fantasy rather than in epic WoT style fantasy myself, although it's a question even Tolkien deals with with the elves. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573962/#p573962 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @khomus, as regards WoT, I'd suggest starting with eye of the world and only reading new spring around book 5 or so. It's well worth reading, indeed it was reading new spring in the legends collection that first got my lady into the series, but it isn't the easiest place to start, plus Jordan was fairly good at introducing the world slowly. As I said in This article, the problem I find in formulaeic writing is predictability killing story tension. If you know that a certain character is always safe because they are a main character, or that the good guys are going to get out of a situation because they're the good guys, then tension has gone out of the window. Eddings, even though he was writing very much in the standard good guys heroes journey mold, did have a very nice habit of having character who did not necessarily know they were going to get out of a given situation, so you could empathise with what they were feeling in that situation. while Even though conan basically is a massive succeedinator who wins at everything, Robert E Howard had a gift for language and poetry that shines through (Indeed I love several of his poems), though in Conan particularly, the rants about women needing to be submissive and obedient (along with the amount of slave girls), and about how great white people are do make me wince a lot since the books are unquestionably preachy, and what they are preaching in places is a pretty nasty mindset, albeit one with a historical context.Eddings tended to avoid as much preaching in his main series even if he did have certain assumptions about men and women that grate on occasion, though in certain of his prequal novels (especially Polgara the sorceress), the times when we're openly told about the big dumb brutish men being overseen by the strident cunning little women, it did get a bit urcsome. Then again with any author, modern ones included, I'd much rather read a good story than just get an opinion preached to me, and much rather have complex 3 dimensional characters than cardboard props for the author's opinions.As to Pern, well McCaffery is very hit and miss, when she's on she's on, when she's off she isn't. I'm doing a slow reread of her dragon riders series putting the reviews on fantasybookreview.co.uk. I tend to find ironically that those books which are character focused, like the harper hall trilogy, tend to be much more fun than those which try to be political stories, like the main series. McCaffery also suffer rather badly from a kind of idealism found to a lesser extent in authors like Mercedes lackey, where you hear about someone doing something bad, the good guys get together, and the person doing the bad thing is just politically talked out of it before you actually see the bad thing happen, or likewise, on the rare occasions you see something bad happen to someone, well usually they go and tell the authorities who are unquestionably good, and someone puts a stop to it. it's actually sort of refreshing, MCCaffery has problems like mismanagement, abuse of power and bullying dealt with in the way that we would hope they could be dealt with in reality, rather than what actually happens . This unfortunately makes a lot of her books less than tense to read, and means she's generally better when dealing with individual character experiences, hence why the harper hall trilogy, which are basically just the story of one girl's attempts to be accepted as a musician in the heavily sexist hidebound medieval culture of pern, actually work far better than when she's trying to show political plots or power plays. As to the immortality question, mostly I've seen that occur in science fiction or urban fantasy rather than in epic WoT style fantasy myself, although it's a question even Tolkien deals with with the elves. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573962/#p573962 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @khomus, as regards WoT, I'd suggest starting with eye of the world and only reading new spring around book 5 or so. It's well worth reading, indeed it was reading new spring in the legends collection that first got my lady into the series, but it isn't the easiest place to start, plus Jordan was fairly good at introducing the world slowly. As I said in This article, the problem I find in formulaeic writing is predictability killing story tension. If you know that a certain character is always safe because they are a main character, or that the good guys are going to get out of a situation because they're the good guys, then tension has gone out of the window. Eddings, even though he was writing very much in the standard good guys heroes journey mold, did have a very nice habit of having character who did not necessarily know they were going to get out of a given situation, so you could empathise with what they were feeling, while even though conan basically is a massive succeedinator who wins at everything, Robert E Howard had a gift for language and poetry that shines through (Indeed I love several of his poems), though in Conan particularly, the rants about women needing to be submissive and obedient (along with the amount of slave girls), and about how great white people are do make me wince a lot since the books are unquestionably preachy, and what they are preaching in places is a pretty nasty mindset, albeit one with a historical context.Eddings tended to avoid as much preaching in his main series even if he did have certain assumptions about men and women that grate on occasion, though in certain of his prequal novels (especially Polgara the sorceress), the times when we're openly told about the big dumb brutish men being overseen by the strident cunning little women, it did get a bit urcsome. Then again with any author, modern ones included, I'd much rather read a good story than just get an opinion preached to me, and much rather have complex 3 dimensional characters than cardboard props for the author's opinions.As to Pern, well McCaffery is very hit and miss, when she's on she's on, when she's off she isn't. I'm doing a slow reread of her dragon riders series putting the reviews on fantasybookreview.co.uk. I tend to find ironically that those books which are character focused, like the harper hall trilogy, tend to be much more fun than those which try to be political stories, like the main series. McCaffery also suffer rather badly from a kind of idealism found to a lesser extent in authors like Mercedes lackey, where you hear about someone doing something bad, the good guys get together, and the person doing the bad thing is just politically talked out of it before you actually see the bad thing happen, or likewise, on the rare occasions you see something bad happen to someone, well usually they go and tell the authorities who are unquestionably good, and someone puts a stop to it. it's actually sort of refreshing, MCCaffery has problems like mismanagement, abuse of power and bullying dealt with in the way that we would hope they could be dealt with in reality, rather than what actually happens . This unfortunately makes a lot of her books less than tense to read, and means she's generally better when dealing with individual character experiences, hence why the harper hall trilogy, which are basically just the story of one girl's attempts to be accepted as a musician in the heavily sexist hidebound medieval culture of pern, actually work far better than when she's trying to show political plots or power plays. As to the immortality question, mostly I've seen that occur in science fiction or urban fantasy rather than in epic WoT style fantasy myself, although it's a question even Tolkien deals with with the elves. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573962/#p573962 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Hi everyone. I've recently started reading fantasy books, and I've really liked the re-incarnation theme. (guy gets killed and wakes up in a new body with powers and etc). Any recommendations on good books like that?one series I'm reading is the bad guys series by eric ugland. It's LITRPG fantasy, and It's been fun up to now that I've read three books URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573896/#p573896 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books It's tricky. I'd personally read New Spring, the prequel, about halfway through the series.It takes place a couple of decades before Eye of the World, but it also sort of tosses you into the deep end a bit, assuming you know a bunch about the Aes Sedai and the various Ajahs and stuff. I feel like the series starts out a certain way, and screwing with that may hurt.But I'd say the only -bad place to read New Spring is after book 11. At that point, the tone shift is jarring, the plot is propelling itself, and reading New Spring will seem like an unwanted interjection. Alternatively, you can simply not read it at all, because most of what's there is covered in other ways through the main plot, if in far, far less detail. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573874/#p573874 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books OK, let's assume I'm going to plunge back into WOT. Am I starting with Eye, or that prequel novel?It's cool to read all of this because for me, I'm a compulsive re-reader. I'm also dumb. It took quite a few re-reads of Eddings to hit the stuff I mentioned way back. I should add, I don't have a problem with them, as such. Eddings is fun enough, I just think it detracts a bit when you realize he's essentially telling the same story over and over and over again. But I mean, I've read all the Conan stories a few times, no problem. I sort of figure hey, whatever problematic stuff is going on, that's how people were back then, or at least, that's how the author wanted the characters to be.Stories are weird for me. They need to grab me, and that's about it. Everybody was super jazzed about the Pern stories. I started reading one, and I just got to the middle and went, man I do not care about these people or what's going on with them. I did read all of Eye, so that's something. That's what makes me kind of want to get back into it. On the other hand, I read all of Harry Potter and I'm just going, OK, read that, kind of fun, don't need to go back to it. But I love The Book of Three series, so go figure.So some of the stuff you're talking about like, oh you know this character's going to be the good guy or whatever, eh, doesn't bother me much. I think that's because it's another story trope that you need ambiguous people, you know? They're part of life too, obviously. But I think that, by and large, most of the people you meet, you probably know whether they're decent people or assholes fairly quickly. So it doesn't really bother me to have characters conform to those types unless it just gets ridiculous. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573863/#p573863 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books A Pattern of Shadow and Light has ways to become immortal.The general problem, unless the author is very careful, is that immortals generally end up with a superman complex. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573859/#p573859 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I mean there are lots of litrpg books like that, where people basically become dungeons in video games. I get the feeling that isn't what you're looking for but if it is, here are a couple. not sure about spelling, but should be close ish.divine dungeon series by dakota croutbone dungeon, by Johnathan Smith? I think URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573853/#p573853 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
2020-09-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : wing of eternity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books do you guys know of any books where someone has transcended his or her humanity/existence, and become imortal or something like that? some one who has passed the concerns of mortal beings. Is there a book or a series with such a character?it doesn't matter if it is sc-fi or fantasy. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573846/#p573846 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Berenion, I've heard a lot of good things about Stephen Ericson. Fantasybookreview.co.uk list his series as in the top ten fantasy series of all time. I'm always slightly put off by the length of the books, since these days as I said, in a lot of ways I prefer shorter series, but at some point I should just bite the proverbial bullet and give them a go, since I certainly don't mind series that give you a complex world to explore and expect you to catch up later.@Wing of iturnity, nope, the one power is nothing like the force. Neither saidin, nor Saidar, are good or evil. Saidin, the male half of the source was tainted by the dark one, which corrupts men who use it, but this is like water with an oil slick, there's nothing wrong with the water itself, it's the oil slick on the water that makes it wrong to drink. it is correct that Saidin and Saidar work differently, with Saidar requiring women who channel to open themselves to a power and surrender to it, like a flower bud opening to the sun, and men to leap into Saidin like diving into a river of ice and fire and use their strength to fight and control it. Women also tend to be stronger in water and air weeves while men tend to be stronger in earth and fire, though this is not absolute (Egween for example is unusually strong in Earth).I'll confess, this inherent Freudian nature to the universe is something that I do not like in the series, though to Jordan's credit he also shows clearly that the two halves of the source work best when used in collaboration, and also that both Saidin and Saidar can achieve a variety of results, and a woman using Saidar is just as capable of blowing the bejaggers out of things with blasts of lightning or fire, as a man is able to use Saidin to heal, a fact which pleasantly surprised me, since I did assume (wrongly), that WoT would be a series where women all got the fluffy healing magic and men got the big blasty magic.In general, while I don't like the hole Women get power by surrendering, men get power by fighting thing, at the same time, Jordan is too good a writer to let him straight jacket it too much, indeed this is another respect where the One power and the force are %100 different, since the starwars films at least always make it a case of the cool, rational virtuous light side vs the angry emotional hateful dark side. As to the Ais Sidai, they are like the Jedi in as much as they are an unaffiliated politically powerful faction free to do their own thingg who gain their power through their use of what is essentially magic, and who have their own centuries of tradition and underlying assumptions. however, the Ais Sidai are also split into a variety of different coloured Ajas each with their own personality, motivations and goals, indeed a fun game I often play with my lady is to try and guess the Ajas of people we know. My lady as I said, is absolutely the quintessential green, she did have ideas of being a yellow because she liked the idea of healing, but she just doesn't have the spiky yellow personality, something which Jordan got absolutely write, me having met a lot of medics in my time. Actually the only aja I think he got really wrong was the white Aja, since all of the logicians I've met tend to be the complete opposite of cool, rational and above emotions, and are more likely to threaten to come to blows about whether linguistic predicates in sentences are the same as existential properties in an objectless metaphysical system, or whether time has tenses . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573828/#p573828 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books @Berenion, I've heard a lot of good things about Stephen Ericson. Fantasybookreview.co.uk list his series as in the top ten fantasy series of all time. I'm always slightly put off by the length of the books, since these days as I said, in a lot of ways I prefer shorter series, but at some point I should just bite the proverbial bullet and give them a go, since I certainly don't mind series that give you a complex world to explore and expect you to catch up later.@Wing of iturnity, nope, the one power is nothing like the force. Neither saidin, nor Saidar, are good or evil. Saidin, the male half of the source was tainted by the dark one, which corrupts men who use it, but this is like water with an oil slick, there's nothing wrong with the water itself, it's the oil slick on the water that makes it wrong to drink. it is correct that Saidin and Saidar work differently, with Saidar requiring women who channel to open themselves to a power and surrender to it, like a flowerbud opening to the sun, and men to leap into Saidin like diving into a river of ice and fire and use their strength to fight and control it. Women also tend to be stronger in water and air weeves while men tend to be stronger in earth and fire, though this is not absolute (Egween for example is unusually strong in Earth).I'll confess, this inherent Freudian nature to the universe is something that I do not like in the series, though to Jordan's credit he also shows clearly that the two halves of the source work best when used in collaboration, and also that both Saidin and Saidar can achieve a variety of results, and a woman using Saidar is just as capable of blowing the bejaggers out of things with blasts of lightning or fire, as a man is able to use Saidin to heal, a fact which pleasantly surprised me, since I did assume (wrongly), that WoT would be a series where women all got the fluffy healing magic and men got the big blasty magic.In general, while I don't like the hole Women get power by surrendering, men get power by fighting thing, at the same time, Jordan is too good a writer to let him straight jacket it too much, indeed this is another respect where the One power and the force are %100 different, since the starwars films at least always make it a case of the cool, rational virtuous light side vs the angry emotional hateful dark side. As to the Ais Sidai, they are like the Jedi in as much as they are an unaffiliated politically powerful faction free to do their own thingg who gain their power through their use of what is essentially magic, and who have their own centuries of tradition and underlying assumptions. however, the Ais Sidai are also split into a variety of different coloured Ajas each with their own personality, motivations and goals, indeed a fun game I often play with my lady is to try and guess the Ajas of people we know. My lady as I said, is absolutely the quintessential green, she did have ideas of being a yellow because she liked the idea of healing, but she just doesn't have the spiky yellow personality, something which Jordan got absolutely write, me having met a lot of medics in my time. Actually the only aja I think he got really wrong was the white Aja, since all of the logicians I've met tend to be the complete opposite of cool, rational and above emotions, and are more likely to threaten to come to blows about whether linguistic predicates in sentences are the same as existential properties in an objectless metaphysical system, or whether time has tenses . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573828/#p573828 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Reading this topic is also making me want to reread WoT! I read the series once starting after knife of dreams was released, I think I was about 10 when I started, and finished it as books came out. I loved it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573791/#p573791 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books Jayde, A Pattern of Shadow and Light is probably the best series I have read. Great characters, great magic system, lots of action. She is also very responsive to her readers. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573776/#p573776 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books
Re: The wheel of time and other fantasy books I can also recommend Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series.Although I'm only at book 4, it's quite interesting, with a complex magic system.There are grimm and dark elements in itKinda Spoilers for Memory of Ice:So there is this religious fanatic nation who does some messed up things.1 They eat the dead.2. A group of their women find and rape dying soldiers on the battlefield creating the Children of the Dead seed.It's a bit hard to get into, when you read the first book, you are kinda thrown into the deepend with all the names and concepts, but I think the series is quite interesting. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/573702/#p573702 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
