[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bitrate issue
I think that SB is just dividing the play time of a track by the number of bits to come up with that figure. -Ben -- Ben Diss Ben Diss's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24474 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB3 through passive pre-amp = great! :-)
The Creek pre is a superb little device, thoroughly recommended from me. -- GeeZa GeeZa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5563 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24476 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Bitrate issue
there is another thread on this subject http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=23964 i think there is a bug that is showing the bitrate of the first audio frame and not the total average bitrate, or indeed updating to match the current bitrate at that point in the track. I'm listening to radio of Squeezenetwork at the moment so it's a little hard to check :) -- funkstar funkstar's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2335 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24474 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: High freq noise from analog out?
Yes, I have the same problem. I got mine replaced but the new one has the exact same behavior. I've been meaning to post a follow-up about this on my previous thread. Try this - change the screen brightness and notice how the pitch of the noise changes. Max brightness is bad, the next level down is worse, then the third level is about equal to the first. The two dimmest settings (dim and off) seem to be completely quiet. This happens for me whether the SB3 is playing, paused, or is in its off state. And only through the right analog out. Also take a listen to the headphone output. You should hear similar noise, but this time in both channels. -- banzai banzai's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5008 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: High freq noise from analog out?
How are your levels set? If your amp is maxed out and sb3 is set to low volume then you will be amplifying its noise floor substantially. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: High freq noise from analog out?
seanadams Wrote: How are your levels set? If your amp is maxed out and sb3 is set to low volume then you will be amplifying its noise floor substantially. In my case I've run through two different setups: Setup 1: Wireless SB3 analog out to Paradigm Active/20s (self-amped speakers). The noise level does not seem to chage when I raise or lower the volume on the SB3 (muted through 40). Right-channel noise/interference level appears to be the same whether the SB3 is playing (though it's difficult to tell), paused, or off. The only thing that affects the right-channel noise/interference is the display brightness. Setup 2: SB3 analog out to my Proceed AMP5, AMP5 to my BW 703s. Same results. In both cases the SB3 is used as my volume attenuator so I can't run it at max level while playing music. However, the fact that the noise level does not seem to change when I raise or lower the volume while it's not playing strikes me as odd. I've tested and eliminated the following possible culprits: - Audio cables (swapped cables, same result) - Local interference (moved SB3, same result) - Speaker issue (swapped channels, switched in BWs, same result) - Wireless connection (switched to wired Ethernet, same result) - Power supply interfering w/amps (moved plug to a separate circuit on opposite side of the room, same result) - AC line noise (plugged directly into my PS Audio UPC-200 line conditioner, same result) Digital out seems to be fine (though I'm wary about the digital coax after I ran into problems on my DAC. Toslink has worked well). Is it possible that the display is throwing off some interference that is being picked up by the right analog out (and the headphone output) after the attenuation stage? Can you locate my returned SB3 and give it a try? Or maybe grab a new wireless SB3 off the shelf and see if it exhibits the same noise? I'm sure you would have noticed this before if this issue existed from the beginning. Perhaps it's just a funny production batch? Or maybe a slight change in a vendor's part that's different from the original pre-production run? It's worth noting that my first SB3 only arrived last month and this replacement obviously is just about as new. For the original poster - how old is your SB3? -- banzai banzai's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5008 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Should I get a DAC?
Robin Bowes Wrote: The key question should be: are you happy with the sound you are getting? Only if the answer is no should you think about putting your hand in your pocket. Listen to other *good* systems, for example in some friendly hi-end store, then to your system again, and then decide how happy you are. If you don't try better stuff you'll never know if you really hear ad feel the difference, and how important it is for you. -- 325xi 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24412 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: why do we need a DAC ?
Phil Leigh Wrote: Oh yes - and in so many ways! Don't fall into the trap of thinking that bits are bits - it just ain't so. Why is that, and how would the squeezebox via digital output compare to CD players? -- Grayson73 Grayson73's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5778 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22502 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: High freq noise from analog out?
banzai Wrote: In both cases the SB3 is used as my volume attenuator so I can't run it at max level while playing music. This is bad. For a hifi setup you should use an attentuator or preamp, for safety reasons if nothing else. The problem is you are taking a DAC with a decent SNR, and then only using a *TINY* fraction of its range down close to the noise floor. I can not stress enough how detrimental this will be to the sound quality! However, the fact that the right-channel noise/interference level does not seem to change when I raise or lower the volume while it's not playing strikes me as odd. Actually, that is the expected behavior. The noise floor does not change when you use digital attenuation. Can you locate my returned SB3 and give it a try? I just did. :) http://www.seanadams.com/1.gif http://www.seanadams.com/2.gif 1.gif is a full-scale sine wave, and 2.gif is the noise floor when nothing is playing (both plots are right-channel only). The peak you're hearing is at 8865 Hz and is at -120.70 dBr. The left channel is quieter, but still, 120dB down is very low **provided you have a reasonable signal level**. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: High freq noise from analog out?
I did one more test with a third setup: Wireless SB3 to old Yamaha RX-495 (two channel analog receiver) to BW 602s3 at full volume (using Yamaha for volume control). At SB3 full volume, Yamaha at modest listening volume, the right channel buzz is basically not noticeable when SB3 is paused. However if I raise the Yamaha volume, the SB3 right-channel buzz does become apparent again. Admittedly, this level would be a bit loud for regular listening (guesstimating 80dB) but not completely excessive. Turning the SB3 down to the levels I have to use it at when it does its own volume attenuation (15 on SB3 volume control), and then turning up the Yamaha level to compensate makes the right-channel buzz much more apparent. I have re-confirmed that the SB3 volume level does NOT affect the right-channel buzz. In other words, the buzz is at a constant output level regardless of SB3 output level. The difference in hearing the buzz or not is based, as Sean suggested, on the output level of the amp. So really it's only an issue when the SB3 is used as a volume attenuator. At line-level (max) output the snr is high enough that the right-channel noise becomes insignificant. However, that still screws up my analog setup which relies on the SB3 to do volume attenuation and play at low levels. -- banzai banzai's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5008 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: why do we need a DAC ?
Check this out, and throw in your thoughts http://tinyurl.com/fmxfq -- 325xi 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22502 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: why do we need a DAC ?
There are so many possible things to discuss - but here are a few: 1) the SB may be able to make a better job of presenting the bits to a DAC than a CDP because it has a much simpler task - no moving parts and no read errors 2) The bitstream presented by the SB to a DAC will always be the same 3) It's no much the value of the bits (assuming they make it correctly to the DAC) but the timing of them (ie jitter) To cut a long story short, I think that the SB3 can hold its head up in pretty exalted company when it comes to spinning disk transports. Theoretically (and I stress theoretically) the SB should outperform any and all CDP's as a pure transport but of course what you hear is the DAC...and there's many a slip twixt transport and DAC... -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=22502 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB/Tact/NuForce
sort of - provided one stays clear of the expander and other creative features... -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24366 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB/Tact/NuForce
dwc Wrote: Poor man's TacT = Behringer DEQ 2496 + mic. Anyone have any experience with one of these? $300 sounds a bit better than $7000... -- azinck3 azinck3's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3967 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24366 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: High freq noise from analog out?
banzai Wrote: The only thing that affects the right-channel noise/interference is the display brightness. How significant is the effect on this noise when you turn up/down the display brightness? I've seen concerns voiced elsewhere that the large display might be detrimental to the audio quality, but I this is the first time I've seen anyone say they can hear it. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Dac for SB3 - Benchmark vs. Lavry vs. ...?
Skunk Wrote: It has balanced outputs, which I'm anxious to try with something.I wouldn't expect much of an improvement with the balanced outputs on the Zhaolu due to the way they have implemented them, but who knows. I haven't heard anyone comment on them yet. Let me know if you do try them out. :)325xi Wrote: Anything known about this DAC here?A friend of mine [xand1x from head-fi] has one, but I haven't had a chance to hear it yet. :( -- philodox box clever, watch your system come together crazy weather at the end of my tether ::#12427;:: heavily modded akg k340 xlr out lavry *black* da10 headphone out john grado hf-1 slim devices squeezebox /\ ultimate power cell 200 eastsound cd-e5 signature edition philodox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5061 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24200 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: High freq noise from analog out?
JJZolx Wrote: How significant is the effect on this noise when you turn up/down the display brightness? I've seen concerns voiced elsewhere that the large display might be detrimental to the audio quality, but I this is the first time I've seen anyone say they can hear it. Keeping in mind everything above (i.e. in terms of cranking up the amp w/the SB3 at low output levels), here's what I've noticed for each Brightness level: 4 (Max brightness): audible buzz, but becomes masked during playback, even with volume super-low (e.g. volume = 1-5). It's still there, just difficult to hear unless you have a pretty quiet track. 3: Buzz gains in pitch, becomes more noticeable, though perhaps overall volume is the same. 2: Buzz returns to Brightness 4 level. 1: Buzz seems inaudible. Left and right channels seem to only carry the basic DAC noise floor. 0: Same as Brightness 1. I've configured my SB3 to set the base Brightness to 4, but the screensaver to Brightness 1 w/a 10-second activation. This way I can wake up the screen when I need to use the UI, but after 10 seconds it goes into screensaver mode and dims the screen again. -- banzai banzai's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5008 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Dac for SB3 - Benchmark vs. Lavry vs. ...?
Cross the Zhaolu 2.0 off your list. I hated it. -- BeerCan BeerCan's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3706 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24200 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB/Tact/NuForce
my tact 2.2 was about $4k - and worth every cent/penny... I've used a fair few Behringer units in the past (in the studio) and whilst they are incredible value I'm not sure the 2496 is exactly a tact... -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24366 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Dac for SB3 - Benchmark vs. Lavry vs. ...?
Somebody should buy Rajacat's Constantine DAC from him. MHDT makes great dacs, and they fit right in the mix of cheap enough to gamble on dacs in this thread. -Dan -- dwc dwc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1892 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24200 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB/Tact/NuForce
I did not mean to imply that the DEQ is as nice as the TacT in any dimension. I really did mean Poor man's - i.e. that this is a suggestion for someone who is never going to kick out the kilo-dollars for a Tact. They can still get semi-automated room correction entirely in the digital domain. It does work and there are lots of happy users out there. Even if you do have the means to afford a TacT, you can test the waters for less than $300 to see if your room (or headphones) really needs an EQ or not. -Dan -- dwc dwc's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1892 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24366 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB/Tact/NuForce
Phil, I hope your wife is back by now, and I hope the cats are still pissed :) I have the Tact still here in the house, been playing with it to get used to it, see if it is really for me. No doubt it improves the clarity, and I smile big when I hit the preset. But it seems to add some kind of psycho mind tricks which make me feel a little weird when I am listening to it. I feel like I have to concentrate on the music just a little bit more in order to get into it, it is not as easy-going pure soulconnection as straight to the amp. In bypass mode I can hear the preamp being there in line, it definitely has a sound. Highs are not as crystalline in bypass or running a preset as straight into my tube amp, or even straight into the NuForce9SEs. The dealer originally setup one of those target curves included with the software, which rolls the highs down by -10 at 20k, and I knew that didn't sound right, so I ran some new cals today, with same kind of target, but I bumped up the highs to be co-linear with the mids, just ran it straight out to 20k, slight slant down to the right. The bass has a 2-3dB bump. I found this to be pleasant to listen to, but nowhere near as impactful and exciting as the pure FLAT curve! That program really sounded good. It still has the weird psych feel though, like I am listening through someone elses ears or something. Maybe I should be buzzed when I use this thing? Maybe it is like new glases, It takes a little while for the brain to adjust to the new (artificial) environment. I am more excited about it now that I have found a target that I think actually sounds good. Have any of you Tact guys ever tried flat? I guess to each his own, given equipment, room differences.. Thanks Rich -- richidoo richidoo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3097 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24366 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: High freq noise from analog out?
Banzai, Sean, Interesting discussion! Thank you! My experience is that I normally use SB as traditional source (vol=40) into an integrated amp with volume control. Amp's volume control further enhances apparent S/N by attenuating the noise with the signal and I never noticed the noise before. I am now sampling a set of full gain monoblocks, and like you, and like many people on this audiophile forum, I run the analog outs directly into the amps, because preamps that I can afford always screw with the signal. My speakers can take 1812 Overture's cannon shots at full SB volume with the NuForce amps, it is loud, yes, but I smile quite a bit, though I do stand about 20 feet back. Anyway, with the more powerful amps amplifying the noise component at full gain, and the software volume control only attenuating the music, the S/N is low enough to hear the noise playing in the quiet passages of music, or just steadily whining in the background like an old TV when there is no music playing at all. Squeezebox has been designed to be a high-end component, and when John Atkinson proclaims it officially ordained into the high end in July Stereophile, Sean and everyone at Slim will be glad it is used as a combination source/preamp and such performance available for $300 garners them a class A gear designation. Adding a Preamp that is in the same price class as the SB just ruins the sound. I have yet to hear a complaint that the SB attenuation failed causing speaker damage like I have recently read about T-amp and other high end low price wannabes. Has SB ever returned under warrantee for such a repair to the volume control circuitry, and does it even have a separate failure mode when music would continue to play at runaway volume level? I though volume is written into the digital word, is it possible to somehow skip that step and still hear music or any signal that would put a dangerous voltage to the analog outputs? I am glad to hear that changing the display brightness will help, that is an excellent tip! I think I would be pretty ticked if I sent SB in and lost a week of listening time and the replacement came back with the same flaw. I have always thought it would really be cool if the SQB had a RCA composite video output for viewing the display on a TV just for the weak vision crowd like me, and now maybe adding defeatable plasma display to composite video would solve this whine too. Great responses, guys Thanks so much! Rich -- richidoo richidoo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3097 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Looking to buy an intergrated amp and I need help
agentsmith Wrote: I am biased, but you cannot do much worse than getting a Naim Nait 5i. I own the 5i and still own the mini Nait 2 that is more than 20 years old and still sounding better most mass market amps. Oops just found this in the thread. Agent..? Do you have any experience listening to the 5i with electronica (ex. kruder and Dorfmeister, Underworld, etc.)? I am now leaning towards the 5i. g -- blah509 blah509's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1405 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24396 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: High freq noise from analog out?
seanadams Wrote: This is bad. For a hifi setup you should use an attentuator or preamp, for safety reasons if nothing else. The problem is you are taking a DAC with a decent SNR, and then only using a *TINY* fraction of its range down close to the noise floor. I can not stress enough how detrimental this will be to the sound quality! Actually, that is the expected behavior. The noise floor does not change when you use digital attenuation. I just did. :) http://www.seanadams.com/1.gif http://www.seanadams.com/2.gif 1.gif is a full-scale sine wave, and 2.gif is the noise floor when nothing is playing (both plots are right-channel only). The peak you're hearing is at 8865 Hz and is at -120.70 dBr. The left channel is quieter, but still, 120dB down is very low **provided you have a reasonable signal level**. It would be interesting to see the noise floor graphs at the various display brightness levels. Also, it would be interesting to see how the SB2 compares with the SB3. I suspect the noise floor of the SB3 is worse due to the design having the display attached directly to the underside of the mainboard. I've heard the safety issue expressed before, but now it appears that running the analog outs directly into a power amp and using the digital volume control may be unusable. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24445 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB/Tact/NuForce
richidoo Wrote: BTW. The Tact dealer, Hometheaterdoc.com, Shane Sangster was knowledgeable and met each question with confidence while he ran the calibration. Shane is a good guy, very willing to help. I'm going to get a Tact from him soon :) -- 95bcwh 95bcwh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4358 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24366 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: SB/Tact/NuForce
yeah the remote is tacky - but I never use it! Rich - are U using the tact between sb dac? (or between sb and amp?) -- Phil Leigh Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=24366 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
