Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;632771 Wrote: > You should not need to enable flow control on the NIC - it will usually > only slow things down. The Touch is a 100mbps device and the NIC should > auonegotiate to that level. > > What type of NIC do you have? Realtek? - you need to make sure you have > the latest Windows device drivers installed for you network card. > > If you want to disable something, start by disabling TCP checksum > offload in the NIC properties. It's an Nvidia nForce 10/100/1000 Mbps port, built-in. Whilst it may be that one should not have to enable flow control, if it helps, which this does although still imperfectly, it helps. Something is not right between the two devices, and we know I'm not entirely alone in this. All device drivers are up to date with the latest from Nvidia. I'll try the checksum offloads when I have time. -- PasTim PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;632738 Wrote: > Enabling Flow Control worked for a while. Switching tracks quickly > didn't cause any problems , which it always did before > > However, after listening for an hour or so without any problems it > started to rebuffer again, and then got worse and worse. There's no > other network traffic. > > I'm persuaded it's a TCP/IP issue between the Touch and my PC running > XP SP3 (and possibly the PC's network card). I know it's not the > physical network. I thought I'd finally cracked it, but sadly not. > > So it's back to trusty native flac again. You should not need to enable flow control on the NIC - it will usually only slow things down. The Touch is a 100mbps device and the NIC should auonegotiate to that level. What type of NIC do you have? Realtek? - you need to make sure you have the latest Windows device drivers installed for you network card. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Awesome news -- got my S-Booster
I'd rather run it through my system and find out if I could hear anything. -- ozpomfromhell ozpomfromhell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=32945 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=86542 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RG6 cable for audio
RG6 type cable is basically all you need. You could order raw coax from http://www.bluejeanscable.com/ I would email their customer service and ask. They were very helpful when I needed a very long HDMI cable. -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87873 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter SE to Integrated Amp
I would probably use the analog out from the transporter into the SC-27. Using the other amplifier isn't going to be great because it doesn't seem to have any good switching for selecting the RCA or balanced input. Doing a combination setup like you're talking about would require you have an amplifier with a "theater bypass" mode that would allow it to act as a not-volume-controlled amplifier. -- SuperQ SuperQ's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87872 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RG6 cable for audio
I was looking for some help. I am in the process of installing an audio cable for my in laws and can not figure out the best option. They have an older Sony 7.1 receiver that does not have HDMI inputs but is mainly RCA inputs. This is powering Bose surround speakers. I am hoping to connect the receiver to the TV which are 50 feet apart. I am using a single RG6 coax cable and crimping RCA's to each end after sneaking through a small hole in the floor from the basement. Are there better options that I am not using as for the cable? I am not sure if this is the right cable. It is a very tricky wiring job and I am really looking to get it done on the first try. Any help is appreciated. Let me know if anyone needs more details. Thank you, -- lou_raffael lou_raffael's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=46890 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87873 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter SE to Integrated Amp
Transporter SE arriving in a couple of days and I can't decide how exactly to hook it up. The source files are all good quality FLAC's. Unfortunately my best speaker pair is now the front of a 6.1 home theater setup - Salk HT2-TL towers with a matching center and cheap Polks for rear. This 6.1 setup is powered by a Pioneer Elite SC-27 (7.1 channels. No XLR inputs). A Squeezebox Touch currently feeds it via SPDIF for music. I do have a spare PS Audio HCA-2 stereo power amp (with XLR inputs) lying around which would have been ideal for a plain stereo setup using the Transporter. I can incorporate it into my setup to power the front speakers using pre-outs from the SC-27. That would make it possible to connect the Transporter occasionally with XLR cables for critical listening (not an elegant solution). If for the sake of simplicity, I decide to connect the Transporter straight to the SC-27, what would be the best way to connect the Transporter - analog or digital? My guess is to use RCA outs from the Transporter and put the SC-27 in "Pure Direct" stereo mode to bypass the "Sampling Rate Converter" and any other undesirable processing. Would appreciate any help in suggesting the best strategy. I don't mind buying new gear, if its worthwhile, but would rather avoid clutter. -- guptaas guptaas's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=21096 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87872 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Enabling Flow Control worked for a while. Switching tracks quickly didn't cause any problems , which it always did before However, after listening for an hour or so without any problems it started to rebuffer again, and then got worse and worse. There's no other network traffic. I'm persuaded it's a TCP/IP issue between the Touch and my PC running XP SP3 (and possibly the PC's network card). I know it's not the physical network. I thought I'd finally cracked it, but sadly not. So it's back to trusty native flac again. -- PasTim PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;632686 Wrote: > You might want to try setting your card to 100MBIT under device > settings. Thanks. I did that some time ago, and also used TCP Optimiser as per suggestions for TT 2.0. None of that made any difference I could detect. -- PasTim PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
You might want to try setting your card to 100MBIT under device settings. -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Whilst listening to music my mind wandered into why my last test may have shown the situation being even worse when directly connected than when through a network with 3 switches and various bits of cable of various ages. I also wondered by the CPU usage went lower when the Touch was rebuffering. So I looked at the network card options on the PC. 1st option - Flow Control. It's disabled. I've never touched this since I bought the PC. A quick Google and some people say leave it off, but some say it's needed if video becomes 'choppy'. H. Turn both Rx and TX flow control on. Do my usual test. Seems OK. Check I'm on PCM - I am. Turn flow control off. Test again. Rebuffering as per usual when changing tracks. Turn it back on. Same test. Seems OK. I'm no TCP/IP expert, but I can imagine the PC flooding the Touch with too much data when there's no flow control and the whole process getting out of step. It's not unreasonable to suppose introducing flow control might help. Now I haven't run this enough times to be confident, but I'll see how it goes. If anyone else has similar problems maybe they could try this and post back here? -- PasTim PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;632656 Wrote: > To make sure that the network (router, serveral cables, other clients, > etc.) is not the root cause for potential network related issues, you > can connect the server directly via cable to the client: > > 1. assign static IP address to your server > 2. Powerdown both devices > 3. Hook up the cable > 4. Power up both devices > 5. assign static IP to your Touch in the settings menu > > Remark: Remote control via WLAN will be a challenge with this setup. ;) To satisfy my and other people's curiosity I have tried using one (new late last year) gigabit switch, and also direct connection, both with new Cat 6 patch cables (none of which were used last time I tried connecting the touch more directly to my PC). If anything the rebuffering on PCM 24/96 is worse tahn with my normal full network. The PC CPU is hardly ticking over, and when the Touch starts rebuffering the CPU load goes down close to zero. Now I'm not saying it's definitely the Touch or definitely the PC, but it ain't the network that is causing the problem (which, I have to say, which what I thought after my previous tests, but I guess it's good to prove it). The PC is running 7.5.4 (I have tried 7.5.3 as well). The Touch is now on 7.6.0 r9441 (I have also tried 7.5.3 and 7.5.4). I have tried without TT2.0, with 2.0, with small ALSA (down to 3600) and up to 2. If it is the PC it's far to hard for me to dig through Microc**p to find the problem. Suffice to say I don't notice any other problems using the network and this PC, even when streaming video to my Humax box. Must reconnect my network as it should be, and go back and play more music (by flac) :-) -- PasTim PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
To make sure that the network is not the root cause for network related issues, you connect the server directly via cable to the client: 1. assign static IP address to your server 2. assign static IP to your Touch 3. Powerdown both 4. Hook up the cable 5. Power up the both Remark: Remote control via WLAN will be a challenge with this setup. ;) -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Liteon DAC-60 and SB3 for sale
Hi All, title says it all - apologies if this is against the rules to sell stuff here. I bought the DAC and SB3 and used them for about a year before upgrading to a TP, don't know what they're worth now but am open to offers. I live in Surrey and the buyer would have to collect. -- pkfox When the going gets weird - the weird turn pro. Hunter S Thompson CD's -> EAC/Grip -> ReadyNas NV -> CAT5 -> Sonicwall -> TP -> Meridian 551 -> Monitor Audio Gold -> Me :-) pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=87862 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;632632 Wrote: > The puzzle to me is that flac is 100% reliable for all my files, but PCM > at 24/96 is guaranteed to rebuffer when I change tracks more than a few > times (if I leave the tracks playing it only occasionally rebuffers). PCM is uncompressed and so requires more bandwidth. The fact this happens occasionally means you are operating on some limit of your network and changing tracks will exacerbate the problem as you lose the benefit of the internal Touch buffer (only further confirming this is most likely a network and not a Touch issue) As an example: I converted a 96/24 compressed track (4m40s long) to 24 bit PCM. The original was ~90MBytes, so requiring an average bandwidth of 2.7Mbit/s to stream without error; the PCM version ~150MBytes requiring an average ~4.5Mbits/s. I am not suggesting your network is limited to ~4.5Mbit/s transfers. Other than the possibility of the problem being isolated to a portion of your network as @aubuti correctly states, in reality servers like SBS tend to "burst" data at a higher performance, leveraging the clients internal buffer and thereby achieving the average requirement. But even so - there should still be plenty of overhead on your 100Mbit/s network and while a simplistic case it gives you an idea or the requirements and why a 100Mbit/s network (or even wireless network) should be perfectly capable of supporting PCM streaming -- snottmonster snottmonster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45063 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;632632 Wrote: > I could do more cable / switch swapping and get no further (I was > already down to only one cable and one switch in common). The point is that you may have a network that is 90% fine, but that perhaps you were unlucky and chose the weakest 10% (ie, a particularly bad switch or cable) to do the heaviest data work, and then chose the same weakest 10% for your test. If that were the case it wouldn't be surprising for your "isolation test" to replicate the same problems you're having on the full network. PasTim;632632 Wrote: > So I'll carry on listening to flacs. Absolutely nothing wrong with that! -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
There are too many variables involved in this, and I don't have sufficient diagnostic tools or knowledge to take it further with a reasonable expectation of tracking down a solution. I still wonder if my using Analogue out is making a difference. I see most others use an external DAC. I could do more cable / switch swapping and get no further (I was already down to only one cable and one switch in common). I might then have to try and change the ethernet port on the PC, and so on. For all I know it's some other hardware device on my PC interrupting too often at critical times, or some piece of software on the PC, or .. The puzzle to me is that flac is 100% reliable for all my files, but PCM at 24/96 is guaranteed to rebuffer when I change tracks more than a few times (if I leave the tracks playing it only occasionally rebuffers). It will remain a puzzle for now. Maybe it will go away when 7.6 is formally released and I can use it on the server). So I'll carry on listening to flacs. -- PasTim PasTim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41642 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
soundcheck;632621 Wrote: > This proves it for your setup first of all... ;) > So you are implying that there may be physical differences between 2 Touch units running identical firmware? Do you have information that there are multiple hardware revisions of the Touch? -- snottmonster snottmonster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45063 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;632549 Wrote: > I did connect the Touch via just one switch and short cables. Nothing > changed at all So how do you know the problem is not related to that switch or those short cables? PasTim;632549 Wrote: > I can exchange gigabyte files between PCs on my home network with no > hiccups. Irrelevant. Example 1: if the fault is the port or cable connected to the Touch then you could see exactly the same symptoms. Example 2: you make no statement re. the performance of such transfers and so while you can exchange such files, that alone does not mean there is not a fault on your network. PasTim;632549 Wrote: > I did look at the network traffic, but I don't know enough to be sure I > understand what I'm seeing I looked briefly and you are getting many retransmits, both when streaming FLAC and PCM. That is a big indicator of a networking issue, and every symptom you have so far described also suggests you have a network problem. 100Mb/s is more than sufficient for streaming PCM - a single stream would not max out the connection (Do the math, it's not a complex calculation). Also the Touch is capable of receiving a PCM stream and playing it without issue as others have already confirmed. But if you are still 100% convinced the fault is not your network, then you only have 3 choices left: Change the server, change the touch or do nothing and enjoy the FLAC stream -- snottmonster snottmonster's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45063 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
Phil Leigh;632613 Wrote: > > This proves it is possible and there is nothing inherently wrong with > the Touch hardware or its firmware or sbs. This proves it for your setup first of all... ;) Though it is good to know that your setup is working under pretty much all conditions. At least my Toolbox can't be blamed for the mess. ;) However. There are serveral people who complain about rebuffering issues or better instable conditions on 24/96 PCM streaming. I doubt that those peoples setups vary much from yours, if you run a standard W7 and network setup If it is correct that you won't experience any hickups even with the toolbox installed and even via WLAN, there must be something else wrong with those flawed boxes or setups. What was the exact way of debugging the rebuffering issue again ? -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;632570 Wrote: > Mystery, mystery. And why can't the problem be in the Touch? > > And why do some people say that having a smaller Alsa buffer improves > sound, but one may need a bigger one if you get rebuffering problems? > Isn't that a network issue? In fact, what does 'Audio' have to do with > anything if one is using Digital in and out (which I'm not). I guess > you can tell I'm a 'bits is bits' person. > > Is there an online tome that explains the Linux architecture to me? > > Ah well. As you say, carry on listening... The ALSA buffer size has NOTHING to do networking. "bits is bits" has nothing to do with this discussion. This is about how Linux and the hardware it runs on works and how it interfaces with peripheral devices via device drivers. "Rebuffering" is not solved/altered by messing around with the ALSA buffer. I can stream 24/96 PCM and flac across wired and wi-fi all day from both XP and Win 7 machines running SBS 7.6... with NO rebuffering etc. Installing the TT mods does not change this behaviour in any way. This proves it is possible and there is nothing inherently wrong with the Touch hardware or its firmware or sbs. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Belden Digital,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 2.0
PasTim;632549 Wrote: > PCM for 24/96 loads the network at between 5 and 10%. Flac runs at > 2-3% or maybe a bit less for the same files. > 1. That's what I'm saying. It can't be the network load. 2. 24/96 Flac is not making problems, even with the small Alsa buffersize One think is obvious. The network buffer margin on the Touch filled up with 24/96 PCM data seems to be driven on it`s edge. The Touch got effectively only a very few seconds music of buffered data to work with. It'll be 50% of that of a flac. There should be an issue in that area. 24/96 as flac will be transfered, decoded and played back. That task requires more processing power then PCM assuming the same network buffer size. Perhaps the network buffer is just too small for 24/96 PCM ?!?!? -- soundcheck ::: ' Touch Toolbox 2.0 and more' (http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com) ::: by soundcheck soundcheck's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34383 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=84742 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
