Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
http://www.audiorecording.me/how-to-install-run-voxengo-r8brain-sample-rate-converter-in-linux.html http://www.mainly.me.uk/resampling/index.html -- TheOctavist Vortexbox>SBT(stock)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due Venti>>Link Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
Sure there are a lot of dither/resample choices!@ http://src.infinitewave.ca/ for dither.. there is POW-R (type 1, 2 , 3) triangular dither, Mbit Maxx, Saracon, UV22(apogee) and dozens of others. as I have a studio, I am happy to record samples of instruments/voice and the infamous "keys jangling" (a trial by fire) and give you the 24/96 file and the dithered/resampled ones to examine in whatever way you see fit! -- TheOctavist Vortexbox>SBT(stock)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due Venti>>Link Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
TheOctavist;695074 Wrote: > I tell you what. ill take a 24/96 file. > > ill resample/dither to redbook using 3 different algorithms...you tell > me. > > interested? I would not be able to tell :) . But that there is a lot of algorithms to chose is in itself interesting would not the optimal algorithm be apparent by now ,when digital audio is a mature technology ? Curius now :) are you implying that some not optimal algorithm actually can sound "different" . but what IS commonly done on the stuff we bought ? (DVDA is now dead ) I have to many disc where it is to different. There may be seens as an oportinity to release different versions to give more value a more benign reason than I thougth off . I'm I over cynical to actually expects differing versions exactly for the reason to thwart comparisons . Resampling, is anything free for Linux that works really well maybe I could learn some command line stuff and use SoX that already lives on my server . -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need Recommendations
Jimzak's budget was "about $2500" this should possible include more speakers center and rear ? -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93948 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
Mnyb;695073 Wrote: > ? was not this a common case for SACD DVDA ? that there actually where > different masters chosen the reed-book layer was usually what was > released as CD in previous releases . > > In some cases it can be more convoluted the DVDA/SACD may be a true 5.1 > mix and has no real 2ch track and people using the stereo out's of such > player are listening to the automated downmix as provided by these > formats . > This will not be the same as the real stereo mix, it may be worse as or > at least not exactly what the producer intended ? > > A question can the re-sampling and dithering make small level > differences as a side effect ? > > 0.2 dB would skew a blind test afaik so just switching between layers > would not do to compare I tell you what. ill take a 24/96 file. ill resample/dither to redbook using 3 different algorithms...you tell me. interested? -- TheOctavist Vortexbox>SBT(stock)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due Venti>>Link Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
TheOctavist;695067 Wrote: > High Resolution tracks dont have any special requirements for different > mastering than the redbook versions > > normally the redbook is just a dithered/resampled bounce of the > original high res master... > > > Ive never seen a case in which there was different mastering. if the > redbook master is good, then the HD will to..and vice versa. ? was not this a common case for SACD DVDA ? that there actually where different masters chosen the reed-book layer was usually what was released as CD in previous releases . In some cases it can be more convoluted the DVDA/SACD may be a true 5.1 mix and has no real 2ch track and people using the stereo out's of such player are listening to the automated downmix as provided by these formats . This will not be the same as the real stereo mix, it may be worse as or at least not exactly what the producer intended ? A question can the re-sampling and dithering make small level differences as a side effect ? 0.2 dB would skew a blind test afaik so just switching between layers would not do to compare -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD & SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] RC (Inguz etc.)
Mr. phil.. can I get what I need from REW?? http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/ OR http://www.vicoustic.com/VN/Musicbroadcast/ProdutoInfo.asp?Id=110 OR http://www.acoustisoft.com/ OR http://www.fuzzmeasure.com/ -- TheOctavist Vortexbox>SBT(stock)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due Venti>>Link Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=77084 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Need Recommendations
Bryston. Built like a brick shithouse, best warranty in the business. superb performers.. -- TheOctavist Vortexbox>SBT(stock)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due Venti>>Link Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93948 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
High Resolution tracks dont have any special requirements for different mastering than the redbook versions normally the redbook is just a dithered/resampled bounce of the original high res master... Ive never seen a case in which there was different mastering. if the redbook master is good, then the HD will to..and vice versa. -- TheOctavist Vortexbox>SBT(stock)>>Forssell MDAC-2>>>Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra Kleos>>Bespoke Valve Phono Stage>>Mastersound Due Venti>>Link Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
mlsstl, It appears that you and I have a rather similar perspective on this... One of the reasons I bought the Touch was to be able hear and compare "high resolution" audio downloads in my own system at modest cost. I've decided that, for me, the benefit of high resolution is not worth a significant price premium. The "perfect seat" at most venues is usually rather expensive. For instance, I attend the Chicago Symphony quite often. For the price of 30 concerts in the Gallery, you might get 10 in the Lower Balcony. Now, I do like the Lower Balcony seats (which are much closer, and "brighter" and louder), but I buy the 30 Gallery seats. -- R Johnson R Johnson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36462 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Unfortunately,I think many of adamdea's opinions in this forum are probably based on a) not using a good external DAC b) running through a rubbish analog stage. These will make "everything sound the same". Which is why such statements are so common in "certain" forums. Especially those devoted to CHEAP stuff like the SBT. You can be sure Klaus didn't use rubbish to tune his mods. Or, of course, he wouldn't have bothered doing ANY of them in the first place. Because they make no difference... -- cfraser cfraser's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48869 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
So how does this work? Does the amplifier send "jagged" (digitized) waveforms out the speaker terminals, and the speaker coil itself effectively does the D-to-A conversion? -- Henry66 Henry66's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=38863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Has anyone listened to the NAD C 390DD?
I'm curious as this is a "digital" amp. According to the NAD website "C 390DD has no analogue stages in the signal path, keeping music in the digital domain right up to the speaker outputs. All preamp functions are executed in the digital domain without the phase shift, noise and distortion that plagues all analogue designs regardless of price or pedigree." It sounds like it would work well with a Squeezebox, as it is a DAC, pre-amp and power amp all in one. -- nicholasg nicholasg's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18127 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94054 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 3rd party Touch hardware mods?
Not being a DIY kind of guy, I am keen to know if there are any 3rd party companies doing hardware mods to the Touch. Currently I am happy with a modded SB2, but I know it can't last for ever ... -- snoogly snoogly's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9155 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=94052 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
R Johnson;695023 Wrote: > Several years ago I compared the sound of an opera DVD to its > corresponding HD DVD (before Blu-ray won the war). I could not hear > differences in the sound of individual singer's arias. However, I > could hear that choral passages were better articulated on the better > sound track. The audio improvements were subtle. The video improvements > were very evident. This is just my personal position, but when the differences between two formats (or pieces of gear) are in the "subtle" territory, such that I have to "work at it" to hear the differences, I quickly lose interest in pursuing the issue. This is particularly true if it is: 1) difficult to decide if "different" is the same as "better"; 2) there is a significant cost difference involved; or, 3) there is some aspect of the "better" option that limits its usefulness for the majority of my listening. The latter is particularly true of high-rez recordings. Much of the music I buy is simply not available in a high-rez format and what is available is typically priced much higher. The market has a distance to go before the exclusivity premium fades to a true production and delivery cost difference. Some degree of variability in playback quality doesn't bother me. I don't get the "perfect" seat every time I go to a live concert, but can find it always enjoyable if I concentrate on the musical performance. -- mlsstl mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
mlsstl;694489 Wrote: > > Can one give an example of a sound that gets lost on a CD that would be > heard on a higher-rez recording? In addition to the Empire Brass (brass > is always a challenge to record well), I also listened to some Boston > Camerata last night, an early music choral group. I could clearly pick > out individual voices from the 30 or more singers, whether massed, lead > or background singers. What did the CD lose that a high-rez would have > revealed? Clearly and accurately presenting the voices of 30 people > singing together would seem a good test for the ability of a recording > to maintain clarity and not lose articulation. > ... Several years ago I compared the sound of an opera DVD to its corresponding HD DVD (before Blu-ray won the war). I could not hear differences in the sound of individual singer's arias. However, I could hear that choral passages were better articulated on the better sound track. The audio improvements were subtle. The video improvements were very evident. -- R Johnson R Johnson's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36462 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
Wombat;695016 Wrote: > Imagine a HD version sounds indeed better because it was less > compressed. The company will argue they can´t offer less compressed > versions because the CD media is to limited but with 24/192 they can. > This is nonsense and i hope more and more peole will get it! > > I´d even go so far to call CD versions that obviously don´t sound as > good as the HD release while they are from the same version as BROKEN > and a valid reason to send them back. Looks like there may be case +1 -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
rgro;694891 Wrote: > This certainly may well be a reason to purchase an HD type recording but > at least we can now be clear that we're purchasing it for the mastering > skills of the engineers and not for any real advantage given by higher > sampling rates or bit depths. Imagine a HD version sounds indeed better because it was less compressed. The company will argue they can´t offer less compressed versions because the CD media is to limited but with 24/192 they can. This is nonsense and i hope more and more peole will get it! I´d even go so far to call CD versions that obviously don´t sound as good as the HD release while they are from the same version as BROKEN and a valid reason to send them back. -- Wombat Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
darrenyeats;695011 Wrote: > LOL! > > Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk I'm here all week... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
Phil Leigh;694900 Wrote: > I don't think I am or should be "esteemed", there are others here worthy > of that epithet... I'd be happy with "tolerated" :-) LOL! Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
sckramer;694591 Wrote: > I recommend using 2.0 or wait for Klaus to release 4.0 -- & also leave > the audio buffer mod disabled (with 2.0) > > also --unsolder the toslink!-- this made a very big difference relative > to everything in this scope of things Can someone guide me to some links on the DIY to disconnect toslink?? -- lake_eleven lake_eleven's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48979 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] How low is low?
darrenyeats;694542 Wrote: > Well, my sub journey continues. > > I have now settled on placing my sub at the same distance as my main > speakers (centre of driver basis). > > Because the sub gives better "massage" sub-sonic performance when it's > near to me, coffee table style, I've been trying to integrate it there. > However, there or anywhere in front of the plane of the speakers, > something sounds just wrong. I think it's the phase of the bass > wavefronts being mismatched at this frequency or that. Even if I play > with the phase control on the sub, this helps certain frequencies to be > in phase, but other bass frequencies are not. The crossover is set to > lowest frequency. > > This is an all ATC set up and it sounds like the crossover is designed > to integrate well...assuming the drivers are roughly in the same plane. > Certainly I've heard the exact same equipment positioned similarly in a > bigger room and I got the "rightness", "bass oomph" and "massage" > factors at the same time. In my smaller room I get only the first two. > This may be physicscould be factors of construction or being > physically nearer the mains skewing my hearing/feeling balance (think > about headphones playing loud...a high sonic SPL doesn't equate to body > shaking amounts of air movement because the drivers are nearer, much > nearer in this example, to your ears). > > Not everything is better in the current position because a big room > mode lives in the crossover region. However, I have Helmholtz > resonators managing that. Overall, it is better. Maybe I will play with > the gain a bit. > > Any advice or suggestions? Even random ramblings like mine are > welcome. > Darren > > Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk My "old time" instructions for managing a bi-amp setup could be helpful if used in reverse: Set the bass segment and the treble segment to maximum volume. Play music at a reasonable volume and reduce the treble gain until the music sounds "normal." The is very simply done with an active crossover but most subs just have sub gain control so you end-up starting with no sub gain and adding slowly. For sub-satellite setup, I agree with Dynaudio: let the satellites play full range. (Assuming the satellites are substantial.) A well done sub is very subtle. Don't be tempted to want to hear it all the time. In a smaller room, avoid having the driver parallel to it's back wall. p -- pski real stereo doesn't just wake the neighbors, it -enrages- them.. It is truly the Golden Age of Wireless pski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93382 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Great post adamdea! As far as your 1st point is concerned I really think Logitech deserves credit, in so far as, I understand, the analoge stage of the Touch is also very decently designed. Not groundbreaking or universally non-betterable, but adhering to sound engineering principles. They did their homework as the saying goes. -- bhaagensen bhaagensen's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7418 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
+1 and protective to the uninitiated. Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
eduardoo;694881 Wrote: > > Having played with the SBT for a week now, I have two questions which > puzzled me: > > 1. How do they build something so good for so little money? (I have a > Furutech power plug that costs more than the SBT!) > 2. How do people like Klaus, SBGK, etc. become so smart that they can > actually push the envelope of the already amazing SBT? the answers to these two questions are somewhat contradictory i'm afraid. 1 Logitech designed SBS/LMS so that audio is sent via Tc/IP as data, so that fiddling around with your OS. Once you do that all you need is a decent dac. to convert it to analog. The touch's dac is surprisingly good because it turns out that the theory underpinning digital audio was basically sound, and nowadays chips can do wonderful things cheaply. You can improve on the touches internal dac BUT... 2 Er. it's not really clear that they can. If you are using the touches internal dac then maybe they make a difference, but not necessarily a perceptible one, and if perceptible then not necessarily an improvement. I think Klaus is very clever and has provided a very useful service. SBGK does not seem to have any grasp of how any of this works, has all sorts of problems and had been banned for good reason. It is quite likely that most people's responses are the result of expectation bias. The results are highly contradictory and quite a lot of people think that the changes make no difference. There is a raging debate about whether streaming flac as PCM is better or worse, although the preponderate view is probably that it makes no difference to sound quality . I don;t want to spoil your party but you should be aware that there is a considerable body of opinion that this is unlikely to make any difference if you are using the digital out of the SBT to a decent dac. Really I don;t want to spoil your happiness and feel free to ignore all this, but if you are new around these parts, you deserve to know that this is all errr controversial. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
bluegaspode;694902 Wrote: > Any article that explains it more thoroughly how it is done (hopefully > with easy explanations and a lot of graphs) ? > > From my understanding: to get the 'correct' value/voltage for a certain > spot in time I need to add a huge amount of sinc-functions (from > previous samples and future samples). > > This was all nicely described in the paper you posted > (http://www.lavryengineering.com/documents/Sampling_Theory.pdf). > > Now on page 18 I can see that there are circuits which can produce half > of a sinc function. > Are such circuits put in parallel to handle many samples at the same > time to retrieve the final value/voltage of a certain spot in time? > How many samples/sinc functions does a typical DAC use to get a good > enough approximation of the final voltage that goes to the speaker? > And what about the left side of the sinc function? Agreed. I think this is know at the taps on the filter I think you might find this interesting I think the 48 Khz filter used in that article was 153 taps. For fairly obviously reasons the filter where fs = 96 or 192 had fewer taps http://www.nanophon.com/audio/antialia.pdf For reasons of computational efficiency many dacs (including my own I think) uised and still use half band filters (you only need half the number of taps for mathematical reasons I might possibly grasp if i tried really hard) which means that they are only -6dB at nyquist and are therefore not sampling theorem-compliant. There is no real excuse for that these days. I have been meaning to quiz bruno putzeys on this as a follow up to the reply he gave quoted by Teddy ray. (octavist) I think we could improve on this in softeware using sox. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
DaveWr;694892 Wrote: > In current real world DAC reconstruction, the reconstruction filters are > analogue, so we have an infinite function - it's an analogue filter. > > Also no respectable DAC uses 20khz brickwall filters, they have low > order high frequency analogue filters, as the out of band digital > products are moved to high frequencies by the use of oversampling > multibit delta sigma technology. > > Dave Sort of. Oversampling means that a digital filter takes are of the work around Fs/2 ansd half the oversampling frequency while an analog filter deals with the remaining issuees around half the oversampling frequency upwards. Unless i am very much mistaken the way this is done illustrates the point As part of the opversampling process you still have a form of fitler which still needs to have the effect of filtering between the audible range and nyquist. Filtering in the digital domain is a bit of a term of art which is basically interchangeable with reconstruction/sample rate conversion etc. If you look up how a FIR filter works you will see that it needs to recalculate values at the sample points and it "looks" at a certain number of sampling points. Because it has to look ahead you have an inevitable latency created by the filter which is greater the steeper the filter is- precisely because the steeper the filter the more sample values is has to recalculate) I am a bit at the edge of my understadnign so forgive me if the following is a buit confused. I am sure there are lots of people here who understadn this better than I do (feel free to correct) I believe that the sample values correspond to the zero corssings of the sinc function (this makes sense because each sample leaves the vaslue at other sampling points unchanged -after all we knw the value at the sampling points). When you upsample however you need to caluate the values between the existing samples so now each known sample value does effect the new sample values.Strictly the sinc fnction (which is an infinitely steep filter) will have an infinite number of zero crossings which means that each old sample will affect each intersample value but it can be approximated by using a certin number of sample points - the number being described as the number of TAPs on the filter -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
DaveWr;694892 Wrote: > In current real world DAC reconstruction, the reconstruction filters are > analogue, so we have an infinite function - it's an analogue filter. Any article that explains it more thoroughly how it is done (hopefully with easy explanations and a lot of graphs) ? >From my understanding: to get the 'correct' value/voltage for a certain spot in time I need to add a huge amount of sinc-functions (from previous samples and future samples). This was all nicely described in the paper you posted (http://www.lavryengineering.com/documents/Sampling_Theory.pdf). Now on page 18 I can see that there are circuits which can produce half of a sinc function. Are such circuits put in parallel to handle many samples at the same time to retrieve the final value/voltage of a certain spot in time? How many samples/sinc functions does a typical DAC use to get a good enough approximation of the final voltage that goes to the speaker? And what about the left side of the sinc function? -- bluegaspode Did you know: *'SqueezePlayer' (www.squeezeplayer.com)* will stream all your music to your Android device. Take your music everywhere! Remote Control + Streaming to your iPad? *'Squeezebox + iPad = SqueezePad ' (www.squeezepad.com)* Want to see a Weather Forecast on your Radio/Touch/Controller ? => why not try my 'Weather Forecast Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=73827) Want to use the Headphones with your Controller ? => why not try my 'Headphone Switcher Applet' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=67139) bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
rgro;694891 Wrote: > It would seem that, as several members here---in particular, the > esteemed Phil Leigh---have been saying for quite some time, the > differences that people claim to hear so clearly are in the > engineering/production and not in the bits and bytes. > > This certainly may well be a reason to purchase an HD type recording > but at least we can now be clear that we're purchasing it for the > mastering skills of the engineers and not for any real advantage given > by higher sampling rates or bit depths. > > Thanks, Octavistfascinating read! I don't think I am or should be "esteemed", there are others here worthy of that epithet... I'd be happy with "tolerated" :-) -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker & Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] 192kHz considered harmful
Here is another quite well explained approach to digital audio (from Benchmark) http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/discuss/feedback/newsletter/2010/08/1/unique-evils-digital-audio-and-how-defeat-them Basically it says 16bit 44.1khz is now well enough implemented for music distribution, but not processing. Dave -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=93990 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
