Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Wombat wrote: > No, never listened to that album. I have compared several music releases > over time. All i can say that in 2001 the typical tendency to master > re-releases was often ugly effect pushing, wrong EQ decissions and > dynamic compression. This may be the point: that the 2001 "re-master", for all its extra tracks, may simply be a poor transcription of the original master sound. Since the 2014 version sounds much more musical to my ears (albeit stupidly labelled as Hi-Res), I can live with that suggestion unless someone can come up with any other explanation. Better get -*some*- sleep... Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
No, never listened too that album. I have compared several music releases over time. All i can say that in 2001 the typical tendency to master re-releases was often ugly effect pushing, wrong EQ decissions and dynamic compression. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Wombat wrote: > When we talk about dynamics you may also compare the dynamics between > the releases with foobars DR meter. Fair point, but there's acoustic guitar playing throughout the cymbal crash I'm referring to, but there doesn't appear to be any effect on the overhang/decay of the guitar notes - that's what I don't get. Are you familiar with the track (it has quite an open vibe unlike some of the heavier stuff on the album, so you can listen through the mix quite easily)? Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
When we talk about dynamics you may also compare the dynamics between the releases with foobars DR meter. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Wombat wrote: > Sure can a stereo expander and a decay change a cymbal sound. Since you > seem say to know how every processing sounds why do you have to ask? > So you say you don't believe it is Hire$ but since there is no other > explanation it must be Hire$? > Someone else did a well known quote lately "I don't say it was aliens > but it was aliens" just to keep it related. Hi Wombat! Arny has just stated that remixing a track is serious work, so you're suggesting that a "stereo expander" & some kind of "decay" modifier can be applied globally to 2 channel music when mastering to change the perceived dynamics, especially the cymbal crash fade -*without*- dramatically changing the sound of everything else. I'm just finding this difficult to comprehend. There's no perceptible change in the width of the stereo image. What do these gizmos actually do to the sound? Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Sure can a stereo expander and a decay change a cymbal sound. Since you seem say to know how every processing sounds why do you have to ask? So you say you don't believe it is Hire$ but since there is no other explanation it must be Hire$? Someone else did a well known quote lately "I don't say it was aliens but it was aliens" just to keep it related. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Wombat wrote: > If you are still out to correlate this cymbal crash thing to Hire$ it is > not the case. > Remastering is sereo expander, EQ, harmonic extension and other tricks. > Especialy this adding of fake harmonics sometimes makes real magic. Hi Wombat! Glad to see that the blue pill has got you functioning again. I'm not trying to attribute it to any "Hi-Res" mumbo-jumbo - we've established that whatever PCM the audio is presented in it must have come from an analogue 2 channel 15ips master. I had hoped for an explanation of digital processing that could affect the sound in the way I have (I hope) clearly stated. I just don't see that any of the effects cited so far would do it, so I'm baffled. FWIW, I'm sure that if I converted the 2014 version from 24/192 to 16/44.1 it would sound the same. I don't understand why the already 16/44.1 2001 version sounds different if it's clearer to state the problem the other way around. Unless I'm really hearing things that aren't there: would be very interested to get a comment from anyone else who has both versions. They practically give them away at Russian car boot sales these days :D. Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
If you want an example how to not remix an album it may be McCartney's Tug Of War while the Steven Wilson remixes of the the Yes and Jethro Tull albums are said to be great. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
arnyk wrote: > There are very few extant known examples of remixing. One related to an > assortment of Elton John tracks. > > Remixing can involve serious work. There are a couple of "rave" remix albums of Blondie which I have: "Beautiful" is the better one: it's perfect for whisking around one's domestic chores at double speed! There is also a bonus disc of re-mixes in the deluxe edition of Bob Marley's "Legend" compilation which are fun, because just when you think you know where you are in a track it suddenly does something else. Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
If you are still out to correlate this cymbal crash thing to Hire$ it is not the case. Remastering is sereo expander, EQ, harmonic extension and other tricks. Especialy this adding of fake harmonics sometimes makes real magic. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
arnyk wrote: > Skipping over the fact that the well-known limitations of 1969 analog > recording makes the claim of "high resolution" a blatant fraud, there > also seems to be a misunderstanding of what remastering involves. Most > significantly to the current question, it is not remixing. The > technical quality of a 15 ips half-track master is audibly worse than > the same material recorded from the same source at 44/16. Ideally, the > recording was tracked digitally, and this was done fairly often but not > universally for up to 10 years before the advent of the CD (1983). > > The starting point for any remastering was at best the original > 2-track 15 ips mixdown master. It might have been even one of the later > versions, such as the master tape used for creating the generation of > master tapes that were sent off to the disk reproduction part of the > process. > > In those days the process went something like this: > > > Multitrack master -> Mixdown master -> Master tape for production -> one > or more cutting masters -> cutting ->plating -> pressing. > > Multiple cutting masters were often created when the disc was > simultaneously pressed at a number of different pressing plants. > > Usually there were different masters for different major markets such as > UK/Europe versus USA. > > I had the good fortune to be a guest of Uncle Sam in Germany during the > late 1960s and was able to enjoy the generally superior mastering and > pressing work that was done over there. I had US and UK/German versions > of about 100 disks, and in general they sounded different. Usually > better mastering and less compression on the UK/European versions. The > pressing quality for European releases was also generally far better. > They were also sold in the US by specialty stores at elevated prices. > Even the jackets were better produced. > > There are very few extant known examples of remixing. One related to an > assortment of Elton John tracks. > > Remixing can involve serious work. Remastering is always simpler and > often involves as little as rerecording with additional equalization, > IOW new baked-in tone control settings. Hi Arny, Thanks for your detailed response which filled in some gaps in my knowledge. I do not suggest that the 24/192 box into which the recording has been fitted can make the change to the sound I have described. However since the recording was released on vinyl in 1969, it can also not have had any digital processing in the recording chain if you're right about the dawn of digital processing, which I'm sure you are. So now there can be nothing that could increase the dynamics of one version vis-à-vis the other (let alone extend the decay on a cymbal crash) since both must original from the same analogue 2 channel master tape? That is, if I take your point correctly. Unfortunately, I checked both versions of track 2 back-to-back again today & I am still clearly hearing the reported difference. Will PM Wombat for one of his yellow pills before he goes to bed... Dave :confused: Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Wombat wrote: > No, it is harmless alpha lipoic acid. Interesting you link to a scifi > forum. > I am in the mid of an investigation on the parallels of the alien > abduction phenomenon and the audiophile belief sytem. > The pattern in many abductees reports is similar in the way many > audiophiles proove each other. > I guess many audiophools have a hard time sitting still because the > anal-probe is itchy. > Just imagine an All-Tuby probe and how fuzzy its warmness must be. The > size on the other hand... This has gone way beyond a joke now. I've just beamed you over one of my special blue pills by PM. TAKE IT IMMEDIATELY, WITH FOOD & GET AN EARLY NIGHT. Hopefully you will feel different tomorrow. A least 1 day older... Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Vansloneker wrote: > Having your Transporter clocked from your DAC is one of the best things > you can do. One of the big issues of digital connections is having the > digital signal in sync. Actually, it is rarely if ever a problem. Ever wonder what an out-of-synch connection sounds like? I'll bet money you never heard such a thing actually happening in your system! BTW, this is a trick challenge, because if your DAC's clock is out of synch with the Transporter, there will typically be no sound at all so there is nothing to hear. It is a trick on a second grounds, and that is that when you clock your DAC the simplest way, the clock is mixed with the data. Only way to not have a clock, is to have no data. Silence again! arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Golden Earring wrote: > I have two different digital versions of the (originally analogue) > recording "Blind Faith" album which Clapton & Baker made after the > demise of Cream, together with Steve Winwood (formerly of Traffic) & > Rick Grech (formerly of Family): one is a 16/44.1 "2001 remaster" with > bonus tracks, most of which are nothing special, and the other a 2014 > 24/192 "HDTracks" transfer of the original album tracks only. > > I popped the 2001 album on last night, but by the time I got to the 2nd > track "Can't Find My Way Home", I was thinking "I've heard it better > than this": I immediately switched to that same track on the 24/192 > effort (which of course only gets to my Transporter as 24/96) & sure > enough the percussion sounded much more dynamic, in particular the > "snap" on the snare drum & the clarity & decay extension on the cymbal > crashes. > > Accepting that the digital format itself ought not to be responsible for > this, what particular tricks could have been used by the re-mastering > engineer given that they must both have been produced from the same > analogue master tape (or an earlier digital transfer of it, it must be > getting a bit long in the tooth by now since I am - I have the original > release on vinyl, complete with its now totally inappropriate artwork)? > > I'm just curious how it is possible to manipulate quite specific parts > of a recording when you don't have a 48 (or more) digital multi-track > recording to use. The effect I'm describing is quite marked, to the > extent that I'm reasonably confident that anyone with access to these > two versions will hear it too. How many tracks would an analogue studio > master tape from 1969 actually have? > > Dave :) Skipping over the fact that the well-known limitations of 1969 analog recording makes the claim of "high resolution" a blatant fraud, there also seems to misunderstand what remastering involves. Most significantly to the current question, it is not remixing. The technical quality of a 15 ips half-track master is audibly worse than the same material recorded from the same source at 44/16. Ideally, the recording was tracked digitally, and this was done fairly often but not universally for up to 10 years before the advent of the CD (1983). The starting point for any remastering was at best the original 2-track 15 ips mixdown master. It might have been even one of the later versions, such as the master tape used for creating the generation of master tapes that were sent off to the disk reproduction part of the process. In those days the process went something like this: Multitrack master -> Mixdown master -> Master tape for production -> one or more cutting masters -> cutting ->plating -> pressing. Multiple cutting masters were often created when the disc was simultaneously pressed at a number of different pressing plants. Usually there were different masters for different major markets such as UK/Europe versus USA. I had the good fortune to be a guest of Uncle Sam in Germany during the late 1960s and was able to enjoy the generally superior mastering and pressing work that was done over there. I had US and UK/German versions of about 100 disks, and in general they sounded different. Usually better mastering and less compression on the UK/European versions. The pressing quality for European releases was also generally far better. They were also sold in the US by specialty stores at elevated prices. Even the jackets were better produced. There are very few extant known examples of remixing. One related to an assortment of Elton John tracks. Remixing can involve serious work. Remastering is always simpler and often involves as little as rerecording with additional equalization, IOW new baked-in tone control settings. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
No, it is harmless alpha lipoic acid. Interesting you link to a scifi forum. I am in the mid of an investigation on the parallels of the alien abduction phenomenon and the audiophile belief sytem. The pattern in many abductees reports is similar in the way many audiophiles proove each other. I guess many audiophools have a hard time sitting still because the anal-probe is itchy. Just imagine an All-Tuby probe and how fuzzy its warmness must be. The size on the other hand... Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Wombat wrote: > No! I don't want to be guilty for your decline due to drugs. You at > least put some effort in long posts that in a way give the impression > you are/were/going to be a nice guy even without all the pills. I just > did swallow a yellow one. > Cheers! Not one of these, I hope: https://www.lexal.net/scifi/scifiction/classics/classics_archive/phillips/ ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Wombat wrote: > No! I don't want to be guilty for your decline due to drugs. You at > least put some effort in long posts that in a way give the impression > you are/were/going to be a nice guy even without all the pills. I just > did swallow a yellow one. > Cheers! Your very good health! Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
No! I don't want to be guilty for your decline due to drugs. You at least put some effort in long posts that in a way give the impression you are/were/going to be a nice guy even without all the pills. I just did swallow a yellow one. Cheers! Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
ftlight wrote: > Happy to help, Dave. > > I should probably go outside and enjoy the nice day before tomorrow's > threatened torrential rain here on Long Island. > > Bill Hi Bill! Sorry that Wombat's spontaneous interjection seems to have triggered an eruption of the bumptiousness on my part that I struggled with so much in my long-lost youth. I'm pleased to report that I have taken one of the special blue pills that I keep in reserve for such situations, & I've also dug out my "CBT for Dummies" reference reading material which I am now perusing. I'm confident that these measures, together with the BBC's confident prediction of precipitation in 36 hours or so, will restore my more usual sang-froid. I think that I attempted to ask a serious question only a few posts back, but unfortunately it has now slipped my mind... I hope that you enjoy the rest of your weekend. Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Golden Earring wrote: > Now indulging my undoubtedly subjective recollections of a world which I > assuredly understood less, & yet seemingly (& probably not > uncoincidentally) seemed to enjoy more, with a sunny afternoon here on > Hayling to boot. The tagging will have to wait... > > Kudos to ftlight for his kind assistance in facilitating my personal > fantasies. > > Dave :) Happy to help, Dave. I should probably go outside and enjoy the nice day before tomorrow's threatened torrential rain here on Long Island. Bill ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Now indulging my undoubtedly subjective recollections of a world which I assuredly understood less, & yet seemingly (& probably not coincidentally) seemed to enjoy more, with a sunny afternoon here on Hayling to boot. The tagging will have to wait... Kudos to ftlight for his kind assistance in facilitating my personal fantasies. Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
I've just recalled a rare "moment of clarity" related by Ken Kessler that I read many years ago when he realised that he probably wouldn't live long enough to listen through his collection of 15,000+ albums once through before his demise! I fear I'm going beginning to go the same way: thankfully LMS does allow you to focus a bit. And you can listen while you're fending off the brickbats (& wombats, sorry mate :D )! Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
I've got a monstrous librarianship job on my hands trying to sort out the tags on my 6,500+ albums as it is. Somehow they seem to get mangled at the car boot sales I attend. :D With 7.5Tb free on my NAS, dithering things down to 16/44.1 is a low priority... Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Wombat wrote: > Going thru all this audiophile FUD, one after the other, now Hire$? > Now that you have an abx session in sight you may add a resampled > 44.1kHz version of your HDtracks purchase against its original 192kHz > version. Forget about the CD. Hi Wombat! Nice to get proof of life, I woz a bit concerned. We're trying to discuss re-mastering techniques, only included the meaningless numbers for identification purposes... Please don't cop with me! :D Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
ftlight wrote: > Per the edit to my previous post correcting the studio info, here's more > details: > > Blind Faith recording details: > http://www.classicrockreview.com/2014/01/1969-blind-faith/ > > Olympic Studios: > http://www.soundonsound.com/people/keith-grant-story-olympic-studios > > Morgan Studios: > http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LBHGXTwp71EJ:www.philsbook.com/morgan.html+=3=en=clnk=us Thanks again! You've severely tested my speed-reading. What a bunch of great characters - the Do F*** All Fader for the producer at Olympic really cracked me up! ;) Many of my favourite albums of the era on the Morgan catalogue. Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Per the edit to my previous post correcting the studio info, here's more details: Blind Faith recording details: http://www.classicrockreview.com/2014/01/1969-blind-faith/ Olympic Studios: http://www.soundonsound.com/people/keith-grant-story-olympic-studios Morgan Studios: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:LBHGXTwp71EJ:www.philsbook.com/morgan.html+=3=en=clnk=us ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Just as a matter of interest, does anyone else have the same 2 digital versions of this album that I have &, if so, do you hear the same difference as me? Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
ftlight wrote: > On another forum I see a mention that this album was recorded at > Advision Studios in London. > > In 1969, Advision had an 8-track Scully recorder: > > "In early 1968 Advision became the first studio in the UK to obtain a > professional 8-track recorder, which was built by Scully Recording > Instruments. Among the first artists to use the 8-track machine were T. > Rex, The Who, and Caravan. In 1970 the studio used a custom 24-channel > desk with an 8-track recorder." > > https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Advision%20Studios Thanks for that. I presume they used 4 tracks for Ginger (1 for each limb!), 1 for each other musician + 1 for the vocals... :D Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Going thru all this audiophile FUD, one after the other, now Hire$? Now that you have an abx session in sight you may add a resampled 44.1kHz version of your HDtracks purchase against its original 192kHz version. Forget about the CD. Transporter (modded) -> RG142 -> Avantgarde Acoustic based 500VA monoblocks -> Sommer SPK240 -> self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Golden Earring wrote: > I'm just curious how it is possible to manipulate quite specific parts > of a recording when you don't have a 48 (or more) digital multi-track > recording to use. The effect I'm describing is quite marked, to the > extent that I'm reasonably confident that anyone with access to these > two versions will hear it too. How many tracks would an analogue studio > master tape from 1969 actually have? On another forum I see a mention that this album was recorded at Advision Studios in London. In 1969, Advision had an 8-track Scully recorder: "In early 1968 Advision became the first studio in the UK to obtain a professional 8-track recorder, which was built by Scully Recording Instruments. Among the first artists to use the 8-track machine were T. Rex, The Who, and Caravan. In 1970 the studio used a custom 24-channel desk with an 8-track recorder." https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Advision%20Studios ftlight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5294 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
I have two different digital versions of the (originally analogue) recording "Blind Faith" album which Clapton & Baker made after the demise of Cream, together with Steve Winwood (formerly of Traffic) & Rick Grech (formerly of Family): one is a 16/44.1 "2001 remaster" with bonus tracks, most of which are nothing special, and the other a 2014 24/192 "HDTracks" transfer of the original album tracks only. I popped the 2001 album on last night, but by the time I got to the 2nd track "Can't Find My Way Home", I was thinking "I've heard it better than this": I immediately switched to that same track on the 24/192 effort (which of course only gets to my Transporter as 24/96) & sure enough the percussion sounded much more dynamic, in particular the "snap" on the snare drum & the clarity & decay extension on the cymbal crashes. Accepting that the digital format itself ought not to be responsible for this, what particular tricks could have been used by the re-mastering engineer given that they must both have been produced from the analogue master tape (or an earlier digital transfer of it, it must be getting a bit long in the tooth by now since I am - I have the original release on vinyl, complete with its now totally inappropriate artwork)? I'm just curious how you it is possible to manipulate quite specific parts of a recording when you don't have a 48 (or more) digital multi-track recording to use. The effect I'm describing is quite marked, to the extent that I'm reasonably confident that anyone with access to these two versions will hear it too. How many tracks would an analogue studio master tape from 1969 actually have? Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
drmatt wrote: > Being serious for a moment .. I did bring up the dialect angle, yes, > mainly because I read the papers you'd linked and thought they were not > quite as complete an answer as you seem to think. > They weren't intended to be complete, just trying to get you started in what for you would be a new area of investigation: Science. > > I was also pointing out that speech intelligibility improves through > exposure to *any* speech pattern over time, as a totally separate effect > from an adaptation to the tonal balance or audio quality. > I don't know how separate the two (basically medium versus message) are, but I know that you can study one quite extensively and hold the other constant, and it is all good. They both involve learning. > > I would agree that speech intelligibility could be a similar effect to > the perception of detail in an audio system and see how this research is > relevant to -that- aspect alone, but I don't think that's what most > people report as being the main effects of "burn in", real or not. > The fact of the matter is that in most of the treasured audiophile cases of burn in, detailed technical investigation finds no relevant audible changes. This is particularly true of gear that has to be very stable to work well, such as DACs. So then you have to either decide that technology is lacking, or that the audiophiles don't understand that they have brains that are very complex and do crazy things like learn and remember. It is possible that while many of us of the scientific persuasion have brains that learn and remember, the audiophiles are lacking in this area. > > My reading of threads about burn-in, or even warm-up, on hifi equipment > more often than not talk about "more bass" or "less bass", which if that > were the only difference has really no impact on speech recognition > capability. > That would be a false claim. It is easy to show that bass management is *critical* to the accurate recognition of speech. For example, cut it off too high, and intelligibility goes away. Add too much, and ditto. Of course, if you lack the ability to hear sounds and decompose them into their component parts, and are ignorant of the relevant literature, you might think otherwise. > > So, care to have a stab at a sensible reply? I'm posting this for the benefit of lurkers. I know you well enough, notadrbutaposerMatt. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
