Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Golden Earring wrote: > Would I be right in guessing you have a Mytek Stereo192? > > I don't know how the display works on the earlier models, but the > Brokkly has a summary display (which you can set to extinguish after a > delay if you wish) which shows the sampling frequency in reasonably > large format. > > Hidden beneath this are a series of menu pages which control all > settings & also display average AND peak programme levels for each > channel. Is it too tragic to admit that I have a compact pair of > binoculars that I use to view the detail menus from my sofa whilst using > the remote? :rolleyes: > > Dave :) Yep, that's the one. It's about the same as you describe. Yes there's a timeout possible on the display so it goes "almost blank". I don't really want the display on most of the time but sometimes it's handy to get the sample rate info. For some reason I never even bothered to put the batteries in the remote for it; mostly because I'm not using any of its preamp features, only its DAC. Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Since it's too hot today in my concrete box of a lounge for me to ingest anything technical I thought I'd chuck out a couple of links I've had up my sleeve for other people to peruse (& doubtless have a pop at, we could do with a bit of controversy it's all gone a bit flat). The first one is the published account by Michel Jurewicz (Mytek Principal Designer) on his philosophy behind the Brokkly DAC design: https://mytekdigital.com/download_library/Engineering_and_Design_Philosopy_of_Mytek_Brooklyn_DAC.pdf. That one may not raise *-too-* many heckles but this one will: https://mytekdigital.com/download_library/Beyond_24_bit_Michal_Jurewicz_Resolution_2014.pdf. Please remember not to shoot the messenger! :D Dave (anything but :cool: right now... ) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
I wouldn't down-sample a high rate file. It's not always a good idea, I'd leave it alone. Under some circumstances, you might up-sample before sending the file to the DAC, but this would only make sense if you knew you could up-sample at higher quality than the DAC's internal up-sampling. -Usually- this isn't the case (not with a DAC using a modern chip set anyway) so again I'd leave it alone. Golden Earring wrote: > So I'd guess that the PCM filtering is applied just below the Nyquist > frequency - isn't the idea of 96kHz sampling frequency recording that > you have your anti-aliasing filtering well up above the audible range so > there is no impact on the audible frequency response at all (given that > real-world filters are not brick-walls)? That is true on the ADC side, or it was, but since ADCs are internally oversampling anyway these days there's no need to record at a higher rate for reasons of the anti-aliasing filter. But you might still record at a higher rate and bit depth in order for more transparent studio processing. On the playback end, modern DACs tend also to over-sample, which creates images, then apply anti-imaging filters. Usually the DAC up-samples in several stages, and often you'll find a combination of digital (the various DAC digital filter options apply here) and analogue filters to remove images. The up-sampling/digital filtering makes the analogue anti-imaging filter much more relaxed. Check it, add to it! http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/ SB Touch darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hifiberry Digi+Pro + RPi3?
Julf wrote: > That would make sense, except that the OP states "I thought that RPi3 > with Digi+Pro would eliminate the connection of the SBT to the server > (RPi3) over the network. Thus, giving me better sound?", so it is all > about the network, not the connection to the DAC. OK, sorry I missed the bit about the OP thinking that eliminating the network link between player and server might improve the sound - which of course it won't. I was responding to iPhone's statement about having a DAC sitting on top of an unshielded RPi. Transporter -> ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107443 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
drmatt wrote: > Mine only has fast and slow filter settings. I don't remember seeing > documentation about the cut-off points for pcm either. Would I be right in guessing you have a Mytek Stereo192? I don't know how the display works on the earlier models, but the Brokkly has a summary display (which you can set to extinguish after a delay if you wish) which shows the sampling frequency in reasonably large format. Hidden beneath this are a series of menu pages which control all settings & also display average AND peak programme levels for each channel. Is it too tragic to admit that I have a compact pair of binoculars that I use to view the detail menus from my sofa whilst using the remote? :rolleyes: Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Golden Earring wrote: > Having dug through all the stuff about the dimensions of King Solomon's > Temple in the user manual, I can't find a definite answer to this. For > PCM playback there are 3 filter *-shapes-* selectable by the user, viz: > 1. Minimum Phase; 2. Slow Roll-Off; & 3. Fast Roll-Off. I haven't > fiddled with this setting & I've just checked to discover that option 3 > is selected so I'm assuming that that is the default. There is no > mention of the frequency at which the filter is applied for PCM > playback. > Mine only has fast and slow filter settings. I don't remember seeing documentation about the cut-off points for pcm either. > > But the Mytek does have a remote & the facility to control it from a GUI > on my computer via (wired, obviously) USB 2.0 link. So I don't have to > haul myself off my sofa to do it! > Yup mine does too. Have to say I just leave it alone though, I only like to even see it at all because it tells me for sure that I have a 44khz source running... Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
arnyk wrote: > A proper job of upsampling avoids this problem. Anti-aliasing is part > of a good implementation of upsampling. This results in a 24/96 file > that lacks any meaningful content above 22 KHz. Morning Arny! It must be seriously early in Michigan, so don't rush to reply to this if you need some more (or any) sleep. I would be grateful if you could give a slightly more detailed explanation of the above since at the moment whilst I believe you I don't understand the concept sufficiently. Thanks, Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Morning Doc! drmatt wrote: > Are you sure the Brooklyn doesn't still use a 22khz-ish filter even when > upsampling? I don't remember reading about that. Having dug through all the stuff about the dimensions of King Solomon's Temple in the user manual, I can't find a definite answer to this. For PCM playback there are 3 filter *-shapes-* selectable by the user, viz: 1. Minimum Phase; 2. Slow Roll-Off; & 3. Fast Roll-Off. I haven't fiddled with this setting & I've just checked to discover that option 3 is selected so I'm assuming that that is the default. There is no mention of the frequency at which the filter is applied for PCM playback. However for DSD playback, the default (Auto) filtering is 47.44kHz IIR filter for DSDx64, 60kHz IIR filter for DSDx128 & finally 70kHz IIR filter for DSDx256. So I'd guess that the PCM filtering is applied just below the Nyquist frequency - isn't the idea of 96kHz sampling frequency recording that you have your anti-aliasing filtering well up above the audible range so there is no impact on the audible frequency response at all (given that real-world filters are not brick-walls)? I would be happy to confirm this with Mytek's technical support guys if you'd like (I'll probably do it anyway, you've got me wondering now... ). > Do you always manually set your sample rate in the Brooklyn? I have one > of its predecessors and leave it to sync to input and I can't say I've > ever really noticed any difference between that and manually setting it. > (Well, apart from when it wound up resampling due to me leaving it set > to the wrong sample rate.) I need to do this because I'm using the Mytek's word clock out to control my Transporter (audiophool that I am :D ): otherwise I could make the Mytek sync automatically which would be slightly more convenient. But the Mytek does have a remote & the facility to control it from a GUI on my computer via (wired, obviously) USB 2.0 link. So I don't have to haul myself off my sofa to do it! Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hifiberry Digi+Pro + RPi3?
celo wrote: > I thought that RPi3 with Digi+Pro would eliminate the connection of the > SBT to the server (RPi3) over the network. Thus, giving me better sound? What makes you think it would? The network connection is a buffered, bit-perfect path, and actually might pose less of a load on the RPi than the USB connection. As long as you don't get bad network congestion, resulting in clearly audible dropouts, the network doesn't affect the sound. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107443 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hifiberry Digi+Pro + RPi3?
cliveb wrote: > All of what you say would make sense if the OP were talking about the > Hifiberry DAC+. > But he's referring to the DIGI+, which is an SPDIF output board, which > would then be used to feed an external DAC. > Given the known flaws in the RPi's USB system, I think using a DIGI+ to > feed SPDIF to an external DAC may be preferable to using the RPi's USB > to feed a DAC. That would make sense, except that the OP states "I thought that RPi3 with Digi+Pro would eliminate the connection of the SBT to the server (RPi3) over the network. Thus, giving me better sound?", so it is all about the network, not the connection to the DAC. "To try to judge the real from the false will always be hard. In this fast-growing art of 'high fidelity' the quackery will bear a solid gilt edge that will fool many people" - Paul W Klipsch, 1953 Julf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=42050 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107443 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Hifiberry Digi+Pro + RPi3?
Sorry for missing out on the details. Yes, I am using an older DAC with no USB and only up to 44.1 support. Don't want to change my DAC. Just purchased and love it. I thought that RPi3 with Digi+Pro would eliminate the connection of the SBT to the server (RPi3) over the network. Thus, giving me better sound? celo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64476 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=107443 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Golden Earring wrote: > > > However the question arises as to whether a 24/96 format recording might > actually sound -*worse*- than 16/44.1 on account of the anti-aliasing > filtering not being applied until a much higher frequency, which > potentially would permit the onward transmission of signals above the > upper limit of human hearing into my amplifier & loudspeakers. > A proper job of upsampling avoids this problem. Anti-aliasing is part of a good implementation of upsampling. This results in a 24/96 file that lacks any meaningful content above 22 KHz. arnyk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=64365 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Are you sure the Brooklyn doesn't still use a 22khz-ish filter even when upsampling? I don't remember reading about that. Do you always manually set your sample rate in the Brooklyn? I have one of its predecessors and leave it to sync to input and I can't say I've ever really noticed any difference between that and manually setting it. (Well, apart from when it wound up resampling due to me leaving it set to the wrong sample rate.) Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk -- Hardware: 3x Touch, 1x Radio, 2x Receivers, 1 HP Microserver NAS with Debian+LMS 7.9.0 Music: ~1300 CDs, as 450 GB of 16/44k FLACs. No less than 3x 24/44k albums.. drmatt's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=59498 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] External DAC on Transporter: best output option
Morning peeps! Having been (fairly) reprimanded for being frivolous on this august forum I thought I'd make a concerted effort to be serious. It has been mentioned to me more than once on this forum that I would obtain as much audible satisfaction from the (relatively small proportion, in the context of my 6,500+ album library of lossless files) 24/96 recordings that I have if I converted them to 16/44.1, the proposal being that any superior re-mastering efforts that they might incorporate would be equally apparent in a CD-size PCM box. My excuse for not doing this so far, other than sheer laziness since they can be played "as is" (although I do have to adjust the sampling frequency on my Brokkly DAC), is that I have loads of free space on my NAS & a lot of other library work to do on my file tags. However the question arises as to whether a 24/96 format recording might actually sound -*worse*- than 16/44.1 on account of the anti-aliasing filtering not being applied until a much higher frequency, which potentially would permit the onward transmission of signals above the upper limit of human hearing into my amplifier & loudspeakers. I'm fairly relaxed that my amplifier (quoted as -0.5dB at 200,000Hz, if you can believe any manufacturers' specs these days) won't be fazed by input up to 48kHz, but my speakers have aluminium dome tweeters (again quoted as -6dB at 40,000Hz) & I wondered if anyone could enlighten me regarding the approximate frequency of input signal likely to induce cone break-up (which would have audible effects at lower frequencies) in this type of transducer? Looking forward to learning something new today! Dave :) Golden Earring's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=66646 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=106519 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
