Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
darrenyeats;400291 Wrote: It's probably in your head. :) But, if you're concerned I would look at configuring SqueezeCenter to stream FLACs as WAV. That avoids processing on the player and means you save 50% of your disc space. (At least I think you can do that...my File Types page is a bit weird because of my messing with Inguz so I can't tell.) Darren I've gone into the settings and see some changes I can make but am not sure what to change. Any suggestions as to what the settings should be? Under FLAC I put Disable but on playback I didn't find any improvement. I see three different changes that can be made. -- silverarrows silverarrows's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14641 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
It's quite simple. Set as follows: FLAC FLAC - Disabled FLAC MP3 - Disabled FLAC PCM - FLAC The last line must be FLAC WAV - FLAC in older version than 7.4. The effect is that FLAC will be decoded by SqueezeCenter and streamed as PCM to the TP instead of streamed as FLAC to the TP and decoded by the TP. BTW, I don't see the point of all this. I don't hear any difference between streamed FLAC and streamed PCM (or WAV). And, frankly, I think people who say they hear it should at least do a blind test to check their sanity :-) Teus -- Teus de Jong Teus de Jong's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15415 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
Well after all these months and thinking of what to do I tried ripping a few CDs into AIFF. Why AIFF? It's uncompressed and has some metadata support. Before I could not tell the difference between FLAC and MP3. Now I can't tell the difference between the SB3 and CD. From what I've read it might have to do with the jitter that is created as a FLAC file is decompressed. I have converted some FLAC files to AIFF, rather than ripping CDs, and the improvement is very noticeable. -- silverarrows silverarrows's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14641 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
It's probably in your head. :) But, if you're concerned I would look at configuring SqueezeCenter to stream FLACs as WAV. That avoids processing on the player and means you save 50% of your disc space. (At least I think you can do that...my File Types page is a bit weird because of my messing with Inguz so I can't tell.) Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. http://www.last.fm/listen/user/darrenyeats SB3 + Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop / Rio Karma - JVC UX-C30 mini system / Sennheiser PX-100 darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
silverarrows;400225 Wrote: Well after all these months and thinking of what to do I tried ripping a few CDs into AIFF. Why AIFF? It's uncompressed and has some metadata support. Before I could not tell the difference between FLAC and MP3. Now I can't tell the difference between the SB3 and CD. From what I've read it might have to do with the jitter that is created as a FLAC file is decompressed. I have converted some FLAC files to AIFF, rather than ripping CDs, and the improvement is very noticeable. If I were you I'd be wary about what your read (and believe). It isn't all true... If there is a difference in audio output at your DAC between a FLAC and AIFF file then it will be detectable... hold on a moment... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB3 (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Outdoors: Boom Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
Through Stax headphones the sound from my dvd /cd player, and the wireless SB3, both digitally into my dac is identical. -- Anne Squeezebox 3 Stereovox XV2 Bryston B100-DA SST Carlsson OA50.2 Sennheiser HD580 Precision Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
I agree with iPhone completely. Our brain is pretty good at noticing differences between 2 different sounds, but it isn't very good at judging the quality of a sound without a reference for comparison. My system has more of a warm tonality to it. When I inserted the Mark Levinson DAC into the chain it lost a lot of the warmth, and I immediately noticed the difference. However, after playing it for a while it began to sound normal. Flac files, or any lossless files, will produce the same digital bitstream as the original CD assuming no errors have been made in decompressing the file. This is generally a good assumption considering that you can unzip program files for the PC without a single bit being in error. If an error does occur in the digital bitstream it will usually produce a dropout or skip in the sound output. It won't change the tonality. Think of a dirty or scratched CD. So as long as the signal is digital, and as long as nothing is broken, the sound quality shouldn't be degraded. The problems arise at the D/A chip and the analog stages that follow it. Converting the digital signal to analog is a tricky process. If the digital bitstream isn't clocked through the D/A at precise intervals (jitter), the noise level will increase which will reduce the dynamic range. Also, the quality (e.g. linearity) of the D/A chip and the filtering used will have a major effect on the sound quality, including the detail, distortion and noise. -- duke43j duke43j's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15911 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
Well you're not comparing apples with apples, since the AES/EBU input may exhibit different jitter and signal recovery properties to the spdif input. In every experiment I've tried - including some seriously expensive CD transports - a spdif-spdif comparison into the same dac, with same cable, has shown the SB to be at least as good - and usually better. An obscure possibility is that some people prefer a more jittery sound...but personally I don't buy that. Given that issues with jitter/clock recovery will not affect frequency response, dynamics, soundstaging or anything remotely analogue in nature - only timing/prat remains. There's some evidence to suggest that the brain has to work harder to listen to a jittery replay chain, and this is fatiguing. The answer to the question how little jitter is effectively no jitter remains elusive IMHO. I think this was the thing that the original designers of digital audio missed (well, that and the fact that 20 bit is way better than 16-bit...). The clock recovery has to be better than barely adequate. Far better to clock the transport accurately from the DAC itself and get rid of that jitter. Certain (generally older) DACS may not play nicely with the SB - I've seen some threads on this. Modern ones (last 10 years) should have no problems via SPDIF. ymmv -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT RCS 2.2X with Good Vibrations S/W - MF X-DAC V3/X-PSU/X-10 buffer (Audiocomm full mods)- Linn 5103 - Linn Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
This sounds very similar to my own experience. Different equipment but I introduced the SB3 as a transport and compared it with my well-loved CDT each going into the same well-loved DAC. The old CDT trounced the SB3 on short or long term listening. Despite same cables, same DAC etc etc. One day I did a blind test between the SB3 and the trusty CDT and picked the SB3 four times out of of four. Statistically not significant i.e. doesn't prove there was a real difference. But certainly this result -did- invalidate my impressions of the CDT being consistently better even with a short comparison. Is this story weird, surprising? Well...I was shocked at the time certainly! This doesn't mean you will reach the same conclusions - I am merely relating my own experience. (About a year later and I use the SB3 analogue outs now...) Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
Hi, I'm having a bit of trouble figuring out what the weak spot is in my system. Right now I'm ripping my CDs in FLAC through EAC. I'm using CDex to rip the CDs into MP3s at 320 as well. From what I hear, I can't honestly find the difference between the two even though FLAC is supposed to be significantly better. Secondly, my Squeezebox 3 is hooked via coax to a Micromega DAC 1. Sound of the FLAC rips are pretty good but not nearly as good as my Micromega Drive 1 through the same DAC. The CD transport is connected through AES/EBU using a Nordost cable. The SB3 is using a relatively cheap Monster cable from the SB3 although I'm not sure if that would make such a big difference. In looking at audio equipment there are tons of choices, not just for quality but for the type of sound. Is it possible that while the ripped CDs could technically be better, it just can't capture the character of the CD transport/DAC combo? -- silverarrows silverarrows's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14641 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
The FLAC file played through the SB3 SHOULD sound the same as the CD transport. And I think anyone would find it difficult to tell the difference between the FLAC and a 320kb/sec MP3 - they should sound close to the same. The only problem seems to be why does the CD transport sound significantly better than the FLAC file played through the SB3, when they are both using the same DAC? Are you using fixed level output or using the volume control on the SB3 for the digital coaxial output? I use the coax output also and I use the volume control set to 91. To me, the FLAC through the SB3 and from my CD transport (a Sony NS500V) sound the same. -- kh6idf kh6idf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=16848 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
I had very similar experiences. First, my hearing isn't as good as it used to be, but I cannot tell any difference between Flac files and compressed files greater than say 180 Kbps. Secondly, I compared the SB3 with a Mark Levinson DAC to a low end DVD player with the Mark Levinson DAC. To my surprise I found that the DVD player/DAC combination sounded better. I cannot think of any technical reason why it should be any different. The SPDIF data out of the SB3 and the SPDIF data from the DVD player should be identical. Since the ML DAC reclocks the digital input, there shouldn't be any timing/jitter issue. I also read another post where someone else had the same experience. I'm baffled by this. -- duke43j duke43j's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15911 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Missing link? A little help please.
kh6idf;304429 Wrote: The FLAC file played through the SB3 SHOULD sound the same as the CD transport. And I think anyone would find it difficult to tell the difference between the FLAC and a 320kb/sec MP3 - they should sound close to the same. The only problem seems to be why does the CD transport sound significantly better than the FLAC file played through the SB3, when they are both using the same DAC? Are you using fixed level output or using the volume control on the SB3 for the digital coaxial output? I use the coax output also and I use the volume control set to 91. To me, the FLAC through the SB3 and from my CD transport (a Sony NS500V) sound the same. I am using the fixed level output for the SB3. With the DAC I've tried other CD transports which did have more detail compared to the current one I'm using but not quite the same type of sound. If FLAC and 320 kb/sec MP3 sound pretty much the same, well that changes everything for me. I just got a new network drive (not used as a NAS) with one drive mirroring the other. Looks like I'll have more space than I thought. -- silverarrows silverarrows's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14641 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=47988 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
