[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
jhm731;173186 Wrote: I believe you've found a cheap piece of crap that won't sound any better than the stock SMPS wall wart. I can't believe you wimps are so afraid of soldering the right size plug onto a simple two wire connection. LOL!!! Speak for someone else, young lad! We did have one or two people here who were unintrested in any solution that required soldering, since that would constitute a so-called tweak (as opposed to a manufacturer doing it and charging a couple of hundred). In some fairness to those, the power supplies found so far have often been open frame. (But perhaps not all -I haven't followed this too closely.) -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
jhm731;173186 Wrote: I believe you've found a cheap piece of crap that won't sound any better than the stock SMPS wall wart. You're right, actually - my $20 isn't likely to buy anything that sounds any different than the wallwart... just like your $750! -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
opaqueice;173260 Wrote: You're right, actually - my $20 isn't likely to buy anything that sounds any different than the wallwart... just like your $750! I believe that is what's called a preconception. Doing a A/B (blind or not) with preconceptions would invalidate the test. And, as we all know by now, a negative A/B proves nothing. Cheers -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
opaqueice;173261 Wrote: It's a linear - these were available a while back, and someone opened one up. It was actually rather decently put together from the photos. ok! I'd recommend snipping off the plug and soldering on a new one, rather than using an adaptor. Fewer contacts are always desirable. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
opaqueice;173040 Wrote: I believe I've found the fabled plug-and-play linear power supply for the SB. Thx, just ordered two. -- egd Linux and loving IT! egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
P Floding;173262 Wrote: I believe that is what's called a preconception. Doing a A/B (blind or not) with preconceptions would invalidate the test. And, as we all know by now, a negative A/B proves nothing. It's incorrect to think you can ever go into such a test without preconceptions - that's impossible. Even if you had no idea what you were listening to, you'd expect there was a difference - why else would someone go to the trouble of doing the test in the first place? The whole point of blind - or better double-blind - tests is that the effect of such factors is nullified as much as is possible. In any case I'm of course going to try to hear a difference; that's why I bought the supply. I'll listen to a variety of material, both through headphones and my main speakers, and I'll be sure to unplug the wallwart while using the linear. If I think I hear a difference I'll try it blind to be sure. Do you really think an extra connecter on the power supply is going to make a difference? If so, you'd better rip out all the wiring in your walls, and go all along the power lines to the closest substation, and then back from the substation along the transmission line to the power plant, and replace everything with audiophile grade materials! As for not being able to prove a negative, I'm not going to get into that argument again. Let me simply say this: You can not prove a negative is a negative statement. :-) egd Wrote: Thx, just ordered two. You're welcome. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
opaqueice;173291 Wrote: It's incorrect to think you can ever go into such a test without preconceptions - that's impossible. Even if you had no idea what you were listening to, you'd expect there was a difference - why else would someone go to the trouble of doing the test in the first place? The whole point of blind - or better double-blind - tests is that the effect of such factors is nullified as much as is possible. In any case I'm of course going to try to hear a difference; that's why I bought the supply. I'll listen to a variety of material, both through headphones and my main speakers, and I'll be sure to unplug the wallwart while using the linear. If I think I hear a difference I'll try it blind to be sure. Do you really think an extra connecter on the power supply is going to make a difference? If so, you'd better rip out all the wiring in your walls, and go all along the power lines to the closest substation, and then back from the substation along the transmission line to the power plant, and replace everything with audiophile grade materials! As for not being able to prove a negative, I'm not going to get into that argument again. Let me simply say this: You can not prove a negative is a negative statement. :-) You're welcome. You are confusing negative statements with negative experimental outcomes. But perhaps it was just jokingly said.. You are right about preconceptions. But, although I phrased it poorly, I really meant that a negative result from an A/B with someone who doesn't expect to find anything is pretty much useless. If, instead, you do indeed find a difference (don't forget to REMOVE the SMPS from the outlet) under ABX then I'd say you do have a result. Regarding contacts: What goes on _before_ the power supply is one thing, and what goes on between the power supply and the SB something else entirely. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
P Floding;173295 Wrote: You are right about preconceptions. But, although I phrased it poorly, I really meant that a negative result from an A/B with someone who doesn't expect to find anything is pretty much useless. If, instead, you do indeed find a difference (don't forget to REMOVE the SMPS from the outlet) under ABX then I'd say you do have a result. Tails you win, heads I lose, apparently. I really don't think a little knowledge of physics and audio is going to deafen me. Regarding contacts: What goes on _before_ the power supply is one thing, and what goes on between the power supply and the SB something else entirely. Why? This is a DC power supply - the only thing an extra connecter can do is put a tiny bit of extra resistance in series with the SB, which increases the load on the PS by a very small amount. If the SB draws around 1A (the PS is rated for 2.4A), it looks to the PS like a 5 Ohm load. The connecter could increase the resistance by a small fraction of an Ohm (I'll check it when it arrives), thus incrementally increasing the load to a point still far below the capacity of the PS. Fluctuations in the current demand of the SB will be much larger than this, as will fluctuations in the output of the PS due to AC voltage variations throughout the day, or due to bad connections in your walls, etc. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
opaqueice;173301 Wrote: Tails you win, heads I lose, apparently. I really don't think a little knowledge of physics and audio is going to deafen me. Why? This is a DC power supply - the only thing an extra connecter can do is put a tiny bit of extra resistance in series with the SB, which increases the load on the PS by a very small amount. If the SB draws around 1A (the PS is rated for 2.4A), it looks to the PS like a 5 Ohm load. The connecter could increase the resistance by a small fraction of an Ohm (I'll check it when it arrives), thus incrementally increasing the load to a point still far below the capacity of the PS. Fluctuations in the current demand of the SB will be much larger than this, as will fluctuations in the output of the PS due to AC voltage variations throughout the day, or due to imperfect connections in your walls, the substation, the transmission lines, the power plant, etc. Well, whatever you like to think, please keep thinking so. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
Opaqueice, Rational arguments just don't seem to work with some people :-) I applaud your patience. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
Adding resistance (or impedance) between the psu and the load (ie squeezebox) is bad because it means the the voltage seen by the load will vary with the current it draws creating voltage noise. (As the current draw changes, so will the voltage drop across any impedance between psu and load) If the psu was directly powering some audio circuitry, one would typically try to eliminate as much impedance as possible. However, in this case, the squeezebox has an internal psu, which imho will do a good job of removing any noise on the external power input. -- bludragon bludragon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1530 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
jhm731;173186 Wrote: I believe you've found a cheap piece of crap that won't sound any better than the stock SMPS wall wart. I can't believe you wimps are so afraid of soldering the right size plug onto a simple two wire connection. LOL!!! Soldering the right size plug on a wire is actually harder than wiring up an open frame supply, as there's not much room to work between the pin and the tab. Plus the adaptor probably adds less resistance than a poorly soldered connection (guessing here). There's also a much greater chance of ruining the SB, but I'm not sure that reversing the leads will/won't harm it. I know I've read about a DAC chip being ruined that way on these boards. FWIW I've seen that PS for as much as $30 at electronics 'salvage' sites. I'd say it's a pretty good find for those dealing with SMPS interference, whether it improves audio quality or not. -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
tomjtx;173312 Wrote: Opaqueice, Rational arguments just don't seem to work with some people :-) I applaud your patience. Only, I didn't see any rational arguments. The power supply MAINTAINS a DC level. That dosesn't mean the interface (power connector) won't see high frequency variations. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
I'm using a $30. linear, which I've upgraded with some parts(including the plug)left over from other projects. opaqueice;173260 Wrote: You're right, actually - my $20 isn't likely to buy anything that sounds any different than the wallwart... just like your $750! -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
P Floding;173381 Wrote: P.S: If anyone has the schematics for the SB's internal power supplies, I'd be very interested. All of them? The relevant ones are posted on the forums but you'll have to be a good searcher ;-) -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
Deaf Cat;173425 Wrote: Has anyone ever sound tested an expensive linear supply against a cheaper one, (when pluged in to a SB) ? You can't get any agreement about whether a linear or switcher makes any difference. Why would you think you could get it when comparing two linear supplies? TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
opaqueice;173040 Wrote: I believe I've found the fabled plug-and-play linear power supply for the SB. The unit is at www.hosfelt.com, click adapters, 3-5V, 4th one down: 5VDC @ 2.4 Amp Regulated, Filtered and Grounded $US 9.95 Mfg. - GLOB TEK Mfg. # - WR92A2400CCP Input: 100 - 125 VAC, 47 - 63 Hz, 0.4 A Model: SA-052A4F-2 Class 1 Power Supply Black with 6 ft. Black cord. Coaxial jack - OD 5.5mm, ID 2.08mm Center is postitive. The specs are perfect, except for one fly in the ointment - the inner diameter of the plug is 2.08mm, and the SB takes 2.5. However, this little problem is easily solved: http://www.kenselectronics.com/lists/coaxpp.htm Scroll all the way down, and this CR30-343 coaxial powerplug size adaptor DCP2155jack to DCP2555plug$2,25 should do the trick. Since they have a $5 minimum I ordered one of each of the 343 and 344, just in case I'm confused about which I need. The PS and adapter plugs are on their way, total cost should be ~$25 (I'm not sure what the shipping on the PS is yet). While I don't expect this to make a difference, it's so cheap and easy I decided to give it a shot. When it arrives I'll do a comparison (blind, of course!) if I think I can hear a difference. I'll also let the forum know if everything works out in case someone else wants an easy solution. Well done! I guess the tweak is not any longer a tweak now, but instead an upgrade. -- P Floding P Floding's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2932 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
Is that adapter gold plated? ;) TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
tyler_durden;173122 Wrote: Is that adapter gold plated? ;) TD No, but it'll by cryo treated by the time it arrives here, in this weather... -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
P Floding;173117 Wrote: Well done! I guess the tweak is not any longer a tweak now, but instead an upgrade. Just don't let them discover that it's audiophile approved or the price will go up 10X... -- Mark Lanctot It's like, you know, a New Age religion, but with better treble response. - Jon Heal Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: plug-and-play linear PS (part one)
I believe you've found a cheap piece of crap that won't sound any better than the stock SMPS wall wart. I can't believe you wimps are so afraid of soldering the right size plug onto a simple two wire connection. LOL!!! opaqueice;173040 Wrote: I believe I've found the fabled plug-and-play linear power supply for the SB. The unit is at www.hosfelt.com, click adapters, 3-5V, 4th one down: 5VDC @ 2.4 Amp Regulated, Filtered and Grounded $US 9.95 Mfg. - GLOB TEK Mfg. # - WR92A2400CCP Input: 100 - 125 VAC, 47 - 63 Hz, 0.4 A Model: SA-052A4F-2 Class 1 Power Supply Black with 6 ft. Black cord. Coaxial jack - OD 5.5mm, ID 2.08mm Center is postitive. The specs are perfect, except for one fly in the ointment - the inner diameter of the plug is 2.08mm, and the SB takes 2.5. However, this little problem is easily solved: http://www.kenselectronics.com/lists/coaxpp.htm Scroll all the way down, and this CR30-343 coaxial powerplug size adaptor DCP2155jack to DCP2555plug$2,25 should do the trick. Since they have a $5 minimum I ordered one of each of the 343 and 344, just in case I'm confused about which I need. The PS and adapter plugs are on their way, total cost should be ~$25 (I'm not sure what the shipping on the PS is yet). While I don't expect this to make a difference, it's so cheap and easy I decided to give it a shot. When it arrives I'll do a comparison (blind, of course!) if I think I can hear a difference. I'll also let the forum know if everything works out in case someone else wants an easy solution. -- jhm731 jhm731's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31971 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
