Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-12 Thread Phil Leigh

gizek;544487 Wrote: 
 Please try balanced configuration and let us know. Still not convinced
 about that 60Hz and harmonic group spikes existence ;-)

Those spikes are the test signals! They are supposed to be there!

The Intermod test signal is a 60Hz and 7k pair at -5dB and -17dB
respectively
The THD test is 1kHz @ -3dB
The dynamic range is 997Hz @ -60dB
...and so on.

If you get a 50/60hz peak on anything other than the Intermod test that
would be mains breakthrough!


+---+
|Filename: CropperCapture[1].jpg|
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9864|
+---+

-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker  Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread gizek

there are some nasty spikes out there


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread Phil Leigh

gizek;544186 Wrote: 
 there are some nasty spikes out there

You can ignore the spikes - they are an artifact of the RMAA software


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker  Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread Phil Leigh

Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA
generated test tone file...

Note that whilst the Touch is slightly noisier than the TP (but not in
a way you can actually hear!) it has less distortion. This is probably
showing the difference of the TP PSU vs the Touch and the diference in
DAC chips and output circuitry.

I'm using a soundcard whose ADC outperforms (less noise/distortion) the
one in the other test - so this isn't an apples to apples comparison and
no conclusions on Touch vs TP can be drawn.


+---+
|Filename: CropperCapture[1].jpg|
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9849|
+---+

-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker  Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread Phil Leigh

Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA
generated test tone file...

Note that whilst the Touch is slightly noisier than the TP (but not in
a way you can actually hear!) it has less distortion. This is probably
showing the difference of the TP PSU vs the Touch and the diference in
DAC chips and output circuitry.

I'm using a soundcard whose ADC outperforms (less noise/distortion) the
one in the other test - so this isn't an apples to apples comparison and
no conclusions on Touch vs TP can be drawn.


+---+
|Filename: CropperCapture[1].jpg|
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9849|
+---+

-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker  Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread cliveb

Phil Leigh;544213 Wrote: 
 You can ignore the spikes - they are an artifact of the RMAA software
Interesting. The spikes are quite clearly a 60Hz fundamental plus
harmonics. My initial assumption was that it is some kind of mains
frequency breakthrough.

But you say it's to do with the software, which confuses me. What
possible software issue would create this effect?


-- 
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Transporter - ATC SCM100A

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread Phil Leigh

cliveb;544233 Wrote: 
 Interesting. The spikes are quite clearly a 60Hz fundamental plus
 harmonics. My initial assumption was that it is some kind of mains
 frequency breakthrough.
 
 But you say it's to do with the software, which confuses me. What
 possible software issue would create this effect?

Sorry - I meant the 1k/2k/3k spikes not the AC harmonic ones...


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker  Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread mswlogo

Phil Leigh;544219 Wrote: 
 Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA
 generated test tone file...
 
 Note that whilst the Touch is slightly noisier than the TP (but not in
 a way you can actually hear!) it has less distortion. This is probably
 showing the difference of the TP PSU vs the Touch and the diference in
 DAC chips and output circuitry.
 
 I'm using a soundcard whose ADC outperforms (less noise/distortion) the
 one in the other test - so this isn't an apples to apples comparison and
 no conclusions on Touch vs TP can be drawn.

And it still shows for a 2-bit Shift you lose almost 1-bit of dynamic
range. In my book that's a huge loss for a modest change.


-- 
mswlogo

XP  Cat5  Transporter/DuetController  SPDIF  Meridian G68  DSP6000,
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread mswlogo

cliveb;544233 Wrote: 
 Interesting. The spikes are quite clearly a 60Hz fundamental plus
 harmonics. My initial assumption was that it is some kind of mains
 frequency breakthrough.
 
 But you say it's to do with the software, which confuses me. What
 possible software issue would create this effect?

Good catch. I'll try to locate it. I hate unbalanced analog it's so
susceptible that. I bet if I used balanced it would go away.

Doing a different test with the exact same rig (in unbalanced analog as
well) on the Meridian it's much cleaner. But there is 60hz bump.

http://meridianunplugged.com/downloads/ComparisonG68AnalogCalTest/Comparison.htm


-- 
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XP  Cat5  Transporter/DuetController  SPDIF  Meridian G68  DSP6000,
DSP5500HC, DSP5000
XP  Cat5  SB3  SPDIF  Meridian DSP5000
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread Phil Leigh

Touch graphs


+---+
|Filename: CropperCapture[3].jpg|
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9852|
+---+

-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker  Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread darrenyeats

Phil Leigh;544219 Wrote: 
 Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA
 generated test tone file...
Thanks for this.


-- 
darrenyeats

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.

(Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread darrenyeats

Phil Leigh;544219 Wrote: 
 Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA
 generated test tone file...
Thanks for this.


-- 
darrenyeats

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503.

(Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1
(caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700
Sennheiser HD 25-1 II

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread darrenyeats

mswlogo;544182 Wrote: 
 Enjoy.
 
 http://meridianunplugged.com/downloads/ComparisonTransporterDigitalAttenutionTest/Comparison.htm
Ah this is what you referred to on the other thread! Thanks.

Again, assuming this is accurate, the degradation is very non-linear
like with the SB. 2.1db down on the first 12db of attenuation, then a
further 8.1db down on the next 12db of attenuation. Of course much
lower loss of dynamic range per db of attenuation and, as predicted,
yet more non-linear. But I'm surprised the results don't show a much
lower loss of dynamic range overall.

I don't understand the -6db column. Is the dynamic range really worse
at -6db than at -12db? That looks incorrect - or maybe I
misunderstand.

Was a 16 bit signal used for the test?
Darren


-- 
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread Phil Leigh

darrenyeats;544311 Wrote: 
 Ah this is what you referred to on the other thread! Thanks.
 
 Again, assuming this is accurate, the degradation is non-linear like
 with the SB. 2.1db down on the first 12db of attenuation, then a
 further 8.1db down on the next 12db of attenuation. Of course much
 lower loss of dynamic range per db of attenuation and, as predicted,
 yet more non-linear. But I'm surprised the results don't show a much
 lower loss of dynamic range overall.
 
 I don't understand the -6db column. Is the dynamic range really worse
 at -6db than at -12db? That looks incorrect - or maybe I
 misunderstand.
 
 Was a 16 bit signal used for the test?
 Darren

There's something odd about THAT test - the DR and Noise results don't
add up at -6dB - and I'm not convinced the attenuation settings are
correct.


-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker  Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread Phil Leigh

My test of Touch dac repeated at 24/96


+---+
|Filename: CropperCapture[1].jpg|
|Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9854|
+---+

-- 
Phil Leigh

You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF
Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker  Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio

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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread mswlogo

darrenyeats;544311 Wrote: 
 Ah this is what you referred to on the other thread! Thanks.
 
 Again, assuming this is accurate, the degradation is non-linear like
 with the SB. 2.1db down on the first 12db of attenuation, then a
 further 8.1db down on the next 12db of attenuation. Of course much
 lower loss of dynamic range per db of attenuation and, as predicted,
 yet more non-linear. But I'm surprised the results don't show a much
 lower loss of dynamic range overall.
 
 I don't understand the -6db column. Is the dynamic range really worse
 at -6db than at -12db? That looks incorrect - or maybe I
 misunderstand.
 
 Was a 16 bit signal used for the test?
 Darren

I agree. It behaved oddly. That 60hz noise may be causing issues.

I plan to run it on balanced. But I need to pickup a cable.


-- 
mswlogo

XP  Cat5  Transporter/DuetController  SPDIF  Meridian G68  DSP6000,
DSP5500HC, DSP5000
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread darrenyeats

mswlogo;544365 Wrote: 
 I agree. It behaved oddly. That 60hz noise may be causing issues.
 
 I plan to run it on balanced. But I need to pickup a cable.
Cool.
darrenyeats;544311 Wrote: 
 Was a 16 bit signal used for the test?
 Darren
I'm interested in a 16/44 signal, personally.
Darren


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread mswlogo

darrenyeats;544379 Wrote: 
 Cool.
 
 I'm interested in a 16/44 signal, personally.
 Darren

It was 16/44. It's in the Report.

I will run 24/44 as well.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread darrenyeats

mswlogo;544381 Wrote: 
 It was 16/44. It's in the Report.
 
 I will run 24/44 as well.
Do you mean Sampling mode: 16-bit, 44 kHz? I assumed this was the ADC
mode, not the digital signal that is input.
Darren


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread mswlogo

darrenyeats;544386 Wrote: 
 Do you mean Sampling mode: 16-bit, 44 kHz? I assumed this was the ADC
 mode, not the digital signal that is input.
 Darren

Live in and Live out. It's both. All testing was Live in and out.

There is only one data rate setting Per Action (Record/Play, Record,
Play). I used Record/Play.

I was also not sure if RightMark assumes it's always paired since it
behaved that way when they are tied together (i.e. live in and live
out).

I think this is what they mean by loop back mode.


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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-07 Thread gizek

Please try balanced configuration and let us know. Still not convinced
about that 60Hz and harmonic group spikes existence ;-)


-- 
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[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation

2010-05-06 Thread mswlogo

Enjoy.

http://meridianunplugged.com/downloads/ComparisonTransporterDigitalAttenutionTest/Comparison.htm


-- 
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XP  Cat5  Transporter/DuetController  SPDIF  Meridian G68  DSP6000,
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