Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
Wombat;218891 Wrote: Well, i don´t follow these I can hear threads anymore. Everybody answers Yes, i abxed even when the chance to really do a proper abx is nearly impossible. wav against flac against itunes against slimserver. How can somebody really tell wav is better than flac if he only was able to luckily configure itunes to work somehow to his Squeezebox. I slowly see the need of an esoteric or is it just strange? forum besides our beloved audiophiles one :) Cheers! Right on! :) -- 325xi 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
I find differences between digital sources subtle, but important for deciding whether I want to listen a lot more! If anyone finds something like cables 'unlistenable', it's a sure sign that they have gone too far away from music and into the equipment. The music is always good, the equipment is what makes you want to listen all the time. A -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) SB+, EAR 859, Living Voice Auditorium II plus some other stuff SB3, Shek d2, Ming-Da MC84-C, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
People, I'm sorry in advance, but it doesn't make any sense. There cannot be HUGE difference between two good digital sources (if one has very high jitter it doesn't deserve to be called good). SB is a good one. The mentioned transport that reportedly sounds better - who knows, but I opt to assume it's good either. There can be slight, very slight difference, but if you experience something severe one of your components simply flawed, or at least doesn't work as advertised. -- 325xi simaudio nova cdp simaudio moon i-5 revel performa m20 on skylan stands via acoustic zen matrix reference ii and acoustic zen satori sb3 audioengine 5 325xi's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5661 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
Well, i don´t follow these I can hear threads anymore. Everybody answers Yes, i abxed even when the chance to really do a proper abx is nearly impossible. wav against flac against itunes against slimserver. How can somebody really tell wav is better than flac if he only was able to luckily configure itunes to work somehow to his Squeezebox. I slowly see the need of an esoteric or is it just strange? forum besides our beloved audiophiles one :) Cheers! -- Wombat Transporter - monoblocks - self-made speakers Wombat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4113 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
Wombat;218891 Wrote: I slowly see the need of an esoteric or is it just strange? forum besides our beloved audiophiles one :) We can name it Audiofools :D [ducks for cover] -- egd Thecus N5200PRO Transporter ATC SCA2 ATC SCM100SLAT egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
325xi wrote: There cannot be HUGE difference between two good digital sources... Actually you highlight one of my pet peeves about modern audiophilia - the ever present hyperbole. It is really annoying to hear people incessantly talk about massive differences between things like cables, even to the point of calling certain things unlistenable. Now I'm hardly in the camp that claims there are no differences between electronics and other audio equipment. I think the analog outputs of my SB3 sound pretty dang good for a $300 device. But I was willing to spend the extra cash to run mine through an external Lavry DA-10 DAC. The differences are certainly present but hardly huge - a bit smoother, a little more depth and extension. Some might prefer another DAC, some might not be able to justify the cost and some might not even notice. But there is nothing about this or any similar scenario that could justify the over-the-top verbiage that some seem prone to. However, something tells me that my wish for some verbal moderation in this area is probably going to yield about the same results as expecting world peace tomorrow. -- mlsstl mlsstl's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9598 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
i read one reviewer lately who claimed he couldn't stand to listen to a cheaper cd player. (runs out of room screaming and covering his 'golden ears'). -- ratso ratso's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11493 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
Hi! - mister pig I Also think Streaming Flac as WaVe sounds better than Stream FLAC as FLAC. And i think Wired connection sounds better than Wireless connection Strange but maybe this have something with emi interference ? Anyway have you read my thread ? Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ? /Mats -- omega omega's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
omega;218604 Wrote: Anyway have you read my thread ? Design miss in SB3 digital output? or Slimserver problem ? Tired. . -- haunyack Transporter - BK Reference 200.2 - Vandersteen 3A Signature. RWA (Analog) SB3 - Rotel RB 1070 - BW Matrix 805. Fridgidare - Mirror Pond pale ale - easy chair w/remote - irritated neighbors. haunyack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9721 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
I had the opportunity to listen to cd's ripped to itunes and the same to flac the itunes sounded soft where as the flac sounded detailed and lively don't ask why as I have no idea. -- zanash Acoustician and builder of interesting cables zanash's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12157 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
mister pig;218154 Wrote: Thaks everyone for their insights. Between reading posts, and a couple of directed questions to tech support at Slimservers, I think I have this properly configuired. i-tunes is music is ripped into wav files. I disabled the wav to flac setting on the slimserver program, so it wav to wav. I have no skipping or lock up issues. How does it sound? In my opinion its a significant improvement to wav to flac conversion. It is within spitting distance to the cd transport I am using. There still seems to be a bit of a loss of high frequency energy. The top end is just not quite as open sounding and detailed as the CD player. I will explore this more, but from what I can see the SB is now properly configuired. Regards Mister Pig It would be very interesting to find out if you really can hear a difference between streaming WAV and FLAC. This has been discussed before. While it is certainly possible that the act of the SB decompressing the FLAC could change the sound, the bits are the same as WAV once it is decompressed. It seems unlikely that there would be audible differences. Of course, if someone were to consistently identify the difference in a proper blind test, I would have to concede the point. Ducks -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
egd;218345 Wrote: interesting observation seeing as the flac is decoded to the bit perfect original pcm wav and then passed through the same dac as any wav file would. it's like arguing that a document stored in a zip archive and then unzipped is not a bit perfect copy of the original. Not exactly The files can be bit perfect but the act of decompressing on the SB could change the sound. I do not think it likely, but it is certainly possible. As an extreme (and silly) example, what if when the SB chip natively decoded the FLAC it indavertently created an audible pink-noise tone on the analog out? As a more plausible example, what if it created some EMF that affected the jitter on the digital path? Again, I am skeptical, but I must concede the possibility. -- jeffmeh jeffmeh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
mister pig;218154 Wrote: How does it sound? In my opinion its a significant improvement to wav to flac conversion. interesting observation seeing as the flac is decoded to the bit perfect original pcm wav and then passed through the same dac as any wav file would. it's like arguing that a document stored in a zip archive and then unzipped is not a bit perfect copy of the original. -- egd http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_transporter.html? http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/shopbycable/1800F.htm http://www.atc.gb.net/homeamplifier/sca2.html http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/shopbycable/1800F.htm http://www.atc.gb.net/domestic/scm100slat.html egd's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3425 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
jeffmeh;218346 Wrote: Not exactly The files can be bit perfect but the act of decompressing on the SB could change the sound. I do not think it likely, but it is certainly possible. As an extreme (and silly) example, what if when the SB chip natively decoded the FLAC it indavertently created an audible pink-noise tone on the analog out? As a more plausible example, what if it created some EMF that affected the jitter on the digital path? Again, I am skeptical, but I must concede the possibility. If that were so, then DTS etc would not pass through. -- snarlydwarf snarlydwarf's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1179 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
snarlydwarf;218360 Wrote: If that were so, then DTS etc would not pass through. That doesn't really tell us much, because two different sources can both pass DTS (e.g. Sb3 and Transporter), yet still sound different. But it brings up another point I didn't see mentioned by Mr. Pig, whether the volume is set to max (digital outputs fixed), and whether replay gain is being used/not. Those oversights WILL keep DTS from being passed, as well as affecting the SNR*. It should make more of a difference than the stream format used, and has been shown on a scope, whereas tests of stream format didn't produce major differences in measured jitter**. In practice I don't notice the effects of the volume control and use them for convenience, but if you're comparing it to a cd player you should at least do the things proven to increase performance. * http://mysite.verizon.net/forumwebspace/RightMark/Test%20Reports/Volume.htm ** http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=15882highlight=jitter+measurements -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] This Is An Improvement
Thaks everyone for their insights. Between reading posts, and a couple of directed questions to tech support at Slimservers, I think I have this properly configuired. i-tunes is music is ripped into wav files. I disabled the wav to flac setting on the slimserver program, so it wav to wav. I have no skipping or lock up issues. How does it sound? In my opinion its a significant improvement to wav to flac conversion. It is within spitting distance to the cd transport I am using. There still seems to be a bit of a loss of high frequency energy. The top end is just not quite as open sounding and detailed as the CD player. I will explore this more, but from what I can see the SB is now properly configuired. Regards Mister Pig -- mister pig mister pig's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12566 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37251 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
Indeed furniture. My listening room is, I think, pretty good - it has art (oils on canvas, no glass) on the (solid) walls, thick carpet, a reasonable amount of soft furniture, bookshelves breaking up any symmetry and a huge thick cornice all round the wall/ceiling interface. None of it intended for sonic purposes, but I think it all helps! So the budget sound improvement idea is to check out self-representing artists on ebay: http://art.listings.ebay.co.uk/Artists-Self-Representing_Paintings_W0QQfromZR4QQsacatZ60437QQsocmdZListingItemList You can engage your other half in sonic improvement :) Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) SB+, EAR 859, Living Voice Auditorium II plus some other stuff SB3, Shek d2, Ming-Da MC84-C, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
Apparently, the three most significant changes you can make are (in no particular order): The quality of the source material Your listening environment Speakers I too find it difficult to distinguish between 320kbps and lossless, but I've gone lossless as I've got plenty of disc space available. I went from £300 speakers to £800 ones and the difference was immense. I'd vote for improving your speakers! -- gw43 gw43's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11327 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
Well after all of your wonderful advice I bought a NAD340C amp together with a set of BW 601 series 2 speakers to run my Squeezbox 3 through. The sound I am getting is such an improvement on any of the one box systems I have had in the past but I was wondering what you guys would recommend to take me up to the next level. So what do you reckon bi-wiring speakers, filling speaker stands with sand, buying a power amp or finally getting a better DAC (remembering I'm on a budget) which will give the most improvement? On the sound in side I have been upgrading all my files to 320mp3 so hopefully this will give me a better starting block. I look forward to hearing your advice -- Moko Moko's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10987 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
Moko;204993 Wrote: On the sound in side I have been upgrading all my files to 320mp3 so hopefully this will give me a better starting block. By re-ripping or by re-encoding existing MP3s? If you're re-encoding, you'll actually be losing sound quality. Is there a reason you're not going lossless? I know some people don't find any difference between 320 kbps and FLAC, and that's fine, but if you're going to the trouble of re-ripping...? -- Mark Lanctot 'Sean Adams' Response-O-Matic checklist, patent pending!' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=200910postcount=2) Mark Lanctot's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
I've tried both and I can't tell the difference between 320 FLAC, too many years watching live bands play really loud! I am ripping from CD's using LAME encoder to get higher bitrates as previously they were ripped at 128 so hopefully 320 should be an improvement -- Moko Moko's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10987 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
Get the Beresford dac, or maybe the Moodlab dac.. http://www.avreview.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/953/v/1/sp/332755698116332616672 Dont even think about biwire etc...waste of time, and money. -- Anne Squeezebox 3 Stereovox XV2 Bryston B100-DA SST Martin Logan Aeon I Sennheiser HD580 Precision Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
Just a thought, if you are thinking of a better dac and power amps etc, improving your system further may mean a slight improvement from 320 to lossless may be heard in the future?? If your ripping again now, why not go for lossless just in case you hear a difference in the future -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/Free_Techniques/Free_Techniques.html TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
tyler_durden;205031 Wrote: http://www.belt.demon.co.uk/Free_Techniques/Free_Techniques.html Cruel... Free though. At least he's not still saying to put a piece of paper in every book in your living room. That would take me a while... Adam -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others http://www.last.fm/user/AdamSlim/ 'Last.fm group: people who don't listen to any of last.fm's top artists' (http://www.last.fm/group/People+who+don%27t+listen+to+any+of+last.fm%27s+top+artists) SB+, EAR 859, Living Voice Auditorium II plus some other stuff SB3, Shek d2, Ming-Da MC84-C, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
The Beresford sounds interesting,any of you guys have real world experience using one? Loved the other tips, might have to buy some curtains just to see if pinning one back improves the sound! -- Moko Moko's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10987 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
Moko;204993 Wrote: So what do you reckon bi-wiring speakers, filling speaker stands with sand, buying a power amp or finally getting a better DAC (remembering I'm on a budget) which will give the most improvement? If your stands are sand-fillable, it's a very inexpensive tweak, so little reason not to. I would say as far as new/additional gear, adding a subwoofer would probably be the most bang for the buck. -- JJZolx Jim JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
Moko;205035 Wrote: The Beresford sounds interesting,any of you guys have real world experience using one? Loved the other tips, might have to buy some curtains just to see if pinning one back improves the sound! Use the brilliant search function my friend and jump in the threads you find theremuch better. Besides, dont worry about the funny guys here, soon you will have a system where you will be able to hear the difference between whether you have silk paper or copy paper under your feet !! -- Anne Squeezebox 3 Stereovox XV2 Bryston B100-DA SST Martin Logan Aeon I Sennheiser HD580 Precision Anne's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10071 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35646 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Budget Sound System Improvement
JJZolx wrote: If your stands are sand-fillable, it's a very inexpensive tweak, so little reason not to. Of course, it will sound better if you fill them with lead shot and spike them into your floors. Sand is so mass market. Speaker placement, rugs, and furniture are the most cost effective changes. -- Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
