Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Labarum;365434 Wrote: I must say I am surprised. Both Amp and speakers ought to be quite revealing. Classical piano music I found dramatically better with the Beresford in circuit, and you can see below what I am using. I was also a little surprised there was no difference, considering what I had read! I mainly listen to rock, alt. country, and some acoustic stuff, but no classical. I have also just got an Oppo 980H DVD player, and that sounds identical to the Squeezebox when playing CDs. Perhaps my ears don't have the resolution any more! -- gw43 gw43's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11327 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
gw43;365684 Wrote: Perhaps my ears don't have the resolution any more! I am 59 and have a -40dB high frequency hearing loss in my left ear. -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
sxr71;364651 Wrote: Fair enough. The expandability is a plus. Also when I learned that you can feed a clock signal to it that made it a bit more interesting. I would in the future consider getting it and slaving it to an external DAC. Still I think $2000 is a little much for a Super Squeezebox assuming the intent is to connect it to a DAC. A version lacking any analog outputs solely designed to be connected be to a DAC for $800-1000 would be simply killer. I guess that since Slim Devices is addressing the audiophile market they could segment their audiophile products a little like that. Yes, the external clock input was a nice plus too on my list that I'm not taking advantage of now but may in the future. I agree a Tranport Transporter would sell big. A lot of folks refuse to pay for the analog half when they don't need it. At this point though the total cost savings to build a Transporter with no analog might save 10%, if that (a few chips and a few jacks) plus the work to design it out. And the volume still might not be large enough to justify it. It might be cheaper for them to just lower the price and include it. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
mswlogo;365709 Wrote: When I saw one for $1200.00 new, I knew if a Transport only version ever did come out it would not be much cheaper than that.I would have had the same reaction, I think. ;) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
I tried the Beresford DAC in April this year (v6.x - don't know if it was a 3 or what). Neither me or the missus (who has better hearing than me) could tell the difference between the Beresford and the SB3. We did several AB tests (one of us would switch the inputs while the other tried to guess whether X was A or B), and the best we ever managed was 12 right our of 20. After 4 or 5 rounds of test each it was either come to the conclusion they were alike, or file for divorce! Stanley Beresford did however honour his money back if not happy guarantee, so it only cost shipping both ways to give it a go. -- gw43 gw43's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11327 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
gw43;365347 Wrote: I tried the Beresford DAC in April this year (v6.x - don't know if it was a 3 or what). Neither me or the missus (who has better hearing than me) could tell the difference between the Beresford and the SB3. What were you playing it into? Within a few seconds I could hear the improvement? -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Labarum;365365 Wrote: What were you playing it into? Within a few seconds I could hear the improvement? Lossless files, into Arcam A85 then on to Monitor Audio GR10. -- gw43 gw43's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=11327 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
gw43;365418 Wrote: Lossless files, into Arcam A85 then on to Monitor Audio GR10. I must say I am surprised. Classical piano music I found dramatically better with the Beresford in circuit. -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
mswlogo;364039 Wrote: I didn't buy it just for looks and never said I did. But it definitely factored into the equation. And I suspect it does for quite a few even if they are not willing to admit it. I bought it for: Looks Build 24/96 Capability Dual Displays And a much more flexible design thay may be enhanced further. I could care less about it's analog capabilities and I know that is a waste but you don't have much choice. When I saw Sean was able to add 88.2Khz support after the fact I was convinced this is one hell of well designed machine and had to have it. The lack of 88.2Khz was also holding me back. I also got it brand new $1200.00 Fair enough. The expandability is a plus. Also when I learned that you can feed a clock signal to it that made it a bit more interesting. I would in the future consider getting it and slaving it to an external DAC. -- sxr71 sxr71's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18773 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
sxr71;362947 Wrote: Whatever, the SB receiver can be hidden. If you'd pay $1850 just for looks and to have the thing in your rack you have too much money to throw around to make recommendations for normal people. Besides I can't stand stupid lights flashing and dancing when I listen to music. I turn off the stupid display on every piece of equipment I have. I didn't buy it just for looks and never said I did. But it definitely factored into the equation. And I suspect it does for quite a few even if they are not willing to admit it. I bought it for: Looks Build 24/96 Capability Dual Displays And a much more flexible design thay may be enhanced further. I could care less about it's analog capabilities and I know that is a waste but you don't have much choice. When I saw Sean was able to add 88.2Khz support after the fact I was convinced this is one hell of well designed machine and had to have it. The lack of 88.2Khz was also holding me back. I also got it brand new $1200.00 -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP 6000, 5500HC, 33 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP 5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP 5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
I'm saving up for either a Benchmark or a Transporter. In the meantime, I got a Beresford to try out. It needed modding before I was happy with it. My Perpetual Technologies P-3A is now on eBay. Here's my experience with the Beresford for those venturing forth: - When I got it I found both the fixed and variable outputs noisy (slight hiss from the speakers when I put my ear next to them (the P-3A is almost silent) - From what I can tell from the circuit board, the variable output is driven via the headphone circuitry and it was picking up mains hum at a certain setting. For both reasons I am now using only the fixed output. - I modded the unit as follows: (i) LM4562MA op-amp to replace the NJM4558 on the fixed output. It's a £6 drop-in surface mount replacement. (ii) Changed the power supply caps to some good quality low-ESR types. (iii) Replaced the switched-mode power supply with a linear one to eliminate the switching noise that I could see on my scope. (iv) Applied Mr Beresford's Mod21 mod, as my unit is a 6/3 version and not the latest 6/4. For the price I am now very happy with the sound. Disclaimer: This is just my opinion and, no, I did not ABX the mods. I have no dealings with Beresford apart from being a customer. -- plim plim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7051 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
OK I owned a Benchmark DCA1, bought a Beresford as temporary replacement and now using the Lavry DA10. Rest of system is All Naim NAC202 pre/NAP200 power/HiCap power supply/NAPSC power supply/Ariva speakers. I have not heard the Transporter, but it would have to pretty poor if it does not sound a whole lot better than the Beresford DAC. The Beresford is a good value considering its price, it sounds different than the SB2, warmer, but not necessarily better. The Benchmark and the Lavry both have a whole lot more details. I personally like the Lavry better, not as clincal as the Benchmark in my humble opinion. By the way my Beresford was bought in September this year so relatively new. I sold it for a song a few weeks ago. -- agentsmith System 1: SB2 and a mostly Naim system System 2: SB2 connected digitally to a Meridian F80 agentsmith's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1838 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
pkfox;358804 Wrote: Hi there, this topic has been done to death ( maybe not with your DAC - but plenty of others ) it all comes down to personal opinion - my friend prefers his standard SB3 with no external DAC to my TP - I rest my case... cheers What are you really trying to say? -- sxr71 sxr71's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18773 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
mswlogo;359029 Wrote: When a system looks like this it really doesn't matter. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=76431postcount=4 But when it looks something like this I do care (by the way I hate the look of the PS3 and the noisy fan and will eventually swap it out). http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you spend any kind of serious money on audio you are kidding yourself if looks doesn't matter. It also depends where your system is (living room vs say your Home Office). I have some other ugly setups too where I don't care what it looks like and I have the SB3 hooked up. As far as sound they both sound the same on a decent DAC and this board spends way to much energy on debating it. The looks is the most significant difference if you hook them both to a decent DAC. So if looks does not matter and plan to use a decent external DAC you are wasting your money on a transporter. Looks includes the displays IMHO. Looks is a more significant discussion than the non existent diffences when hooked to an external DAC. Whatever, the SB receiver can be hidden. If you'd pay $1850 just for looks and to have the thing in your rack you have too much money to throw around to make recommendations for normal people. Besides I can't stand stupid lights flashing and dancing when I listen to music. I turn off the stupid display on every piece of equipment I have. -- sxr71 sxr71's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=18773 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
mswlogo;360375 Wrote: What's a 6/3? Beresford DAC Model TC-7410 Mark 6/3 He is now selling the 6/4, but earlier models can be upgraded, which is my plan. http://www.beresford.me/PP/Stereo_Audio_Digital_to_Analogue_Converter_.html -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Phil Leigh;358871 Wrote: In all seriousness, I suggest you order a 1.5m (this length is important - 1m is too short) BlueJeans Belden 1694a spdif coax cable - it will cost peanuts (well OK - about £20+). Well, Phil, I did order one and it arrived today. You may be right. My initial impression, listening to piano music, is that the sound is cleaner and the ambiance around the piano is more convincing. Yes, very subtle and subjective observations. Stan Beresford himself is sceptical: he knows many prefer an electrical coupling between SB and his DAC, but as he will say is that his DAC does improve the SB. So there you have it. And I have the cable. At I least determined that the electrical connection was not worse that the optical, and I now have a spare optical for the PC (the other is needed for the Virgin Media Box.) In a couple of weeks I will send my 6/3 back to Stan for upgrade to 6/4, and we will see where that gets us. Thanks for the tip, Phil. -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Labarum;360242 Wrote: Well, Phil, I did order one and it arrived today. You may be right. My initial impression, listening to piano music, is that the sound is cleaner and the ambiance around the piano is more convincing. Yes, very subtle and subjective observations. Something to listen to with your new cable. http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/05/18 -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP 6000, 5500HC, 33 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP 5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP 5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
mswlogo;360270 Wrote: Something to listen to with your new cable. http://www.wnyc.org/shows/radiolab/episodes/2007/05/18 Yea, I know, and I remain sceptical. Stan is probably right: there ain't no difference, or none worth talking about. I bought the cable on the assurance it wasn't worse than the optical link, because I wanted an extra switched input. I am fully expecting more of Stan's upgrade 6/3 6/4 -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Labarum;360288 Wrote: Yea, I know, and I remain sceptical. Stan is probably right: there ain't no difference, or none worth talking about. I bought the cable on the assurance it wasn't worse than the optical link, because I wanted an extra switched input. I am fully expecting more of Stan's upgrade 6/3 6/4 And try this post and thread http://www.computeraudiophile.com/node/1055#comment-7846 What's a 6/3? -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP 6000, 5500HC, 33 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP 5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP 5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Themis;358913 Wrote: Because it's a nice, smooth-sounding amp. :) I used to use the amp's dac before I got the Italian one. The couple SB3/Denon through-coax, was better than my old 640C CD player. But one day I found someone selling the North Star for about 500 and I... couldn't resist. I won't go through the differences between the NS and the 3808, they are subtle but quite obvious for heavy music parts (with plenty of instruments). I've had plenty of hi-fi amps (and I still have a Marantz KI and a Cyrus), but the Denon sounds more than decent. I tried, occasionally, to upgrade the power-amp section, but none of the power amps that I listened to (four), below the 1200 price tag, managed to drive my speakers better than the 3808. Even its phono section is sweet : so, I stick with it, at the moment. ;) I know there are a lot of myths about A/V amps (I owned 4, the AVR-300 being one of them), some say that A/V amps made by specialized hifi firms are better sounding... well, I disagree. Today's A/V amps made by commercial firms like Denon, Yamaha, H/K etc have decent transformers, power sections, very good D/A converter implementations and so much more. And mostly : they sound musical. I have plenty of friends (hifi vendors or enthusiasts) who claim the contrary, but most of them never listened to a decent A/V amp in good conditions. And I don't care enough about their beliefs to prove them the contrary. :) Hi Themis- I have that exact AV receiver in my HT and I agree with you that it has a nice sounding DAC. However, where I disagree with you is with the amp section, which IMO isn't very good at all, for my ears anyway. I use a separate power amp with it and, nothing scientific here, but I prefer the sound immensely with the external amp. I'm sure you have tried other setups, but if you haven't tried it with a separate power amp, I would highly recommend it. -- lanierb lanierb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5566 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Themis;359299 Wrote: Phil was saying that his system sounded fine, which I found not amazing, as he has a (very)well-designed Musical Fidelity (MF) dac, along with a dedicated MF PSU and a MF buffer (if I remember properly that's what Triplethreat stands for: X-DAC+X-PSU+X-10 buffer) : Three nice pieces of electronics (a triplet). Modded stands for modified. :) And from what I understand, from his posts, he claims that the transport (SB3) is not necessarily a weak part of his system (although his dac combination is *much* more expensive than the transport). At least that's how I understood it. Themis - you are correct :o) The mods were done to the X-DAC and X-10 by Audiocom in the UK. All new and funky op amps/caps/diodes, new superclock 4, two ultra low noise reg boards (in the DAC). Certainly the dac mods made this into a different animal altogether. But I do think that Dac's are like vinyl cartridges - beyond a certain point of basic engineering the rest is personal taste rather than fidelity per se...ymmv -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
lanierb;359649 Wrote: Hi Themis- I have that exact AV receiver in my HT and I agree with you that it has a nice sounding DAC. However, where I disagree with you is with the amp section, which IMO isn't very good at all, for my ears anyway. I use a separate power amp with it and, nothing scientific here, but I prefer the sound immensely with the external amp. I'm sure you have tried other setups, but if you haven't tried it with a separate power amp, I would highly recommend it. I have tried four different power amps with the Denon, all under 1200 (because I thought it was not going well with my system's value to try to pay more for a power amp, my speakers are nor particularly hard to drive : 88dB or so) and none was sounding as well as the Denon's power section. At best, (a Myriad) was sounding as smooth. But no better. Well, perhaps he problem is the way I listen to music : First, I listen to music at reasonable levels - never loud. Rarely over 40/100 on the amp. Second, I'm probably mainly an analog guy : my reference sound comes from a Revox open-reel... anyway. So what I consider as a smooth sound might mean not analytical to others. So the Denon fits me. But, I'll continue trying to improve the power section, I will inevitably come across a piece of electronics that I like. I agree that the Denon can be improved, especially compared to my speakers. ;) And Phil : congrats about your dac. My dream is to get a modded Tri-Vista one day... ;) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Themis;359019 Wrote: (especially when you have an MF modded triplet in the equation ;)) Please explain those words. -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Labarum;358878 Wrote: Please explain more. If I connected by coax that would free an optical input - ideally I need one for the Virgin Box and one for the Shuttle PC that hides behind the telly. Hi there, my old setup was a SB3 - Lite DAC - Meridian 551 amp - it sounded very good - I now have a TP directly connected to the Meridian - it blows the SB3 Lite DAC setup into the weeds - just my two cents worth :-) -- pkfox When the going gets weird - the weird turn pro. Hunter S Thompson CD's - EAC/Grip - ReadyNas NV - CAT5 - Sonicwall - TP - Meridian 551 - Monitor Audio Gold - Me :-) pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Labarum;358789 Wrote: Has anyone made the direct comparison? Hi there, this topic has been done to death ( maybe not with your DAC - but plenty of others ) it all comes down to personal opinion - my friend prefers his standard SB3 with no external DAC to my TP - I rest my case... cheers -- pkfox When the going gets weird - the weird turn pro. Hunter S Thompson CD's - EAC/Grip - ReadyNas NV - CAT5 - Sonicwall - TP - Meridian 551 - Monitor Audio Gold - Me :-) pkfox's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=5346 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Phil Leigh;358861 Wrote: Brian - what sort of cable do you have between the SB and DAC? A good quality optical link supplied by Stanley Bereford. -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Labarum;358884 Wrote: Themis, why have you got an AV amp between a very expensive DAC and some very smart speakers? Because it's a nice, smooth-sounding amp. :) I used to use the amp's dac before I got the Italian one. The couple SB3/Denon through-coax, was better than my old 640C CD player. But one day I found someone selling the North Star for about 500#8364; and I... couldn't resist. I won't go through the differences between the NS and the 3808, they are subtle but quite obvious for heavy music parts (with plenty of instruments). I've had plenty of hi-fi amps (and I still have a Marantz KI and a Cyrus), but the Denon sounds more than decent. I tried, occasionally, to upgrade the power-amp section, but none of the power amps that I listened to (four), below the 1200#8364; price tag, managed to drive my speakers better than the 3808. Even its phono section is sweet : so, I stick with it, at the moment. ;) I know there are a lot of myths about A/V amps (I owned 4, the AVR-300 being one of them), some say that A/V amps made by specialized hifi firms are better sounding... well, I disagree. Today's A/V amps made by commercial firms like Denon, Yamaha, H/K etc have decent transformers, power sections, very good D/A converter implementations and so much more. And mostly : they sound musical. I have plenty of friends (hifi vendors or enthusiasts) who claim the contrary, but most of them never listened to a decent A/V amp in good conditions. And I don't care enough about their beliefs to prove them the contrary. :) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Themis;358913 Wrote: Because it's a nice, smooth-sounding amp. :) I used to use the amp's dac before I got the Italian one. The couple SB3/Denon through-coax, was better than my old 640C CD player. But one day I found someone selling the North Star for about 500#8364; and I... couldn't resist. I won't go through the differences between the NS and the 3808, they are subtle but quite obvious for heavy music parts (with plenty of instruments). I've had plenty of hi-fi amps (and I still have a Marantz KI and a Cyrus), but the Denon sounds more than decent. I tried, occasionally, to upgrade the power-amp section, but none of the power amps that I listened to (four), below the 1200#8364; price tag, managed to drive my speakers better than the 3808. Even its phono section is sweet : so, I stick with it, at the moment. ;) I know there are a lot of myths about A/V amps (I owned 4, the AVR-300 being one of them), some say that A/V amps made by specialized hifi firms are better sounding... well, I disagree. Today's A/V amps made by commercial firms like Denon, Yamaha, H/K etc have decent transformers, power sections, very good D/A converter implementations and so much more. And mostly : they sound musical. I have plenty of friends (hifi vendors or enthusiasts) who claim the contrary, but most of them never listened to a decent A/V amp in good conditions. And I don't care enough about their beliefs to prove them the contrary. :) Assuming you don't have something drastically wrong the only differences are jitter. And Good DACs dejitter. I recorded some frequency sweeps, flac'd them, played them and recorded them off the digital tape out of my preamp (Meridian G68). They were bit for bit perfect with the SB3 or Transport over Toslink or RCA. The ONLY difference is jitter. Which the G68 removes by basically rebuffering the data stream and reclocking it. I do think the Transporter is worth it if you have the bucks for it's double display, build, looks and 24/96 abilities. It's a great unit and have no regrets spending the extra bucks on it. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP 6000, 5500HC, 33 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP 5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP 5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
No, I'm just trolling. :) Seriously: of course. I never listen to anything below 16/44 when I compare hi-fi equipment. Your interrogations seem to indicate that your opinion is different from mine. Can you explain further in detail, please ? -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Themis, why have you got an AV amp between a very expensive DAC and some very smart speakers? -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
mswlogo;358945 Wrote: I do think the Transporter is worth it if you have the bucks for it's double display, build, looks and 24/96 abilities. It's a great unit and have no regrets spending the extra bucks on it. Not sure about the need for any display. For my favorites it's just press and hold - radio stations; and if I'm browsing my CD collection a laptop is so much easier. At the moment I only have one 24/96 flac. But I', brand new to all this and just feeling my way forward. Thanks for the technical notes - both bit perfect (at full volume), as I guessed. -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Themis;358854 Wrote: No, I'm just trolling. :) Seriously: of course. I never listen to anything below 16/44 when I compare hi-fi equipment. Your questioning seem to indicate that your opinion is different from mine. Can you explain further in detail, please ? No. I don't have an opinion because I haven't heard the Transporter. The SB3 beats my ageing Quad 77 CD player by a very significant margin and the SB3/Beresford is as good as the XP - ASIO - Foobar - Beresford route. The SB3 without the Beresford is flat and lifeless - much worse than the Quad 77 CDP My speakers are 20 years old but but were in the Quad Electrostatic price range when bought, and listening in shops gives me no desire to buy new. The upgraded 405 seems very revealing without screaming into my titanium tweeters, so I guess the analogue chain is up to it, but will the Transported show me more at 16/44.1 lossless? Only my ears will tell me - but I am looking for an opinion from those who might have heard both on a revealing system. -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
I love the display(s). I found The VU bars on the SB3 useless and took up too much room. We the transporter they are always on. They look cool and are very functional and I can immediately tell if it's too hot a recording and adjust accordingly. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP 6000, 5500HC, 33 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP 5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP 5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
The Transporter has (mainly) four advantages : Display, 24/96 playing ability, XLR connectors and a nice D/A converter. Other advantages are : better power regulators, better clock, very good design overall. So, to come back to the main advantages, if display means nothing to you, XLR is of no use and 24/96 are rare... there's only its dac left (along with the clock, but it's a bit part of it). :) A good dac and a nice cable should do about the same, did I get it right ? -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Themis;358987 Wrote: The Transporter has (mainly) four advantages : Display, 24/96 playing ability, XLR connectors and a nice D/A converter. Other advantages are : better power regulators, better clock, very good design overall. So, to come back to the main advantages, if display means nothing to you, XLR is of no use and 24/96 are rare... there's only its dac left (along with the clock, but it's a bit part of it). :) A good dac and a nice cable should do about the same, did I get it right ? Yep, that's about it; but, Themis, you still haven't answered my direct question: have you heard both the Transporter and the SB3/Beresford combination? -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Labarum;358992 Wrote: Yep, that's about it; but, Themis, you still haven't answered my direct question: have you heard both the Transporter and the SB3/Beresford combination? If it's a decent DAC it will sound the same. This topic has been beaten to death. It does not matter what DAC you substitute as long as it's a decent one that cleans up its input. The Transporter has a cleaner (lower jitter) output, but if you're looking at a DAC better than what the Transporter privides then it will likely cleanup it's inputs as well. The display may be a toy to you but it is not to everyone. Some of us do care about how it looks in the system as well as how it sounds and the information the display can provide. The SB3 looked dorky and cheap and in a $30K system it looked out of place. But the SB3 sounds fine as a digital transport. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP 6000, 5500HC, 33 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP 5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP 5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Has anyone made the direct comparison? -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Labarum;358878 Wrote: Please explain more. If I connected by coax that would free an optical input - ideally I need one for the Virgin Box and one for the Shuttle PC that hides behind the telly. Well, In general many folks prefer coax over optical. In my experience this is highly system dependent. Optical has the advantage of providing complete galvanic isolation between connected components so they are electrically isolated. In some systems this is a big win. However, the SB is not connected to mains earth so there is no difference in this respect between using optical vs. coaxbut, The quality of the optical interface is governed by the whole chain. It's all very well using a high-quality toslink cable but if the interfaces you are plugging that cable into have issues the whole thing is compromised. Ultimately, Toslink is just an LED going on/off very quickly and some plastic or glass in between! In my view, where galvanic isolation is already present, a coax connection has the potential to provide a higher quality solution. There are many other issues of course: 1) NO RCA/phono based is truly 75 ohm impedance so there will be some signal reflection at the plug/socket interface. 2) Reflections MIGHT play a part and they are a function of the frequencies involved, the nature of the cable/plug termination and the length of the transmission line. Now, experts will leap in and disagree with me here, but again in my recent tests I have found myself preferring a 1.5m coax to a 0.5 or 1m one (couldn't hear any difference between the 0.5m and the 1m). As mentioned by others, the Beresford is an interesting product because of its flexibility. However, there are many (more expensive) DAC's that will sound better. But, before you go there (or to a Transporter, which I also fully expect to be better than the SB+Beresford, but I haven't heard either) you should try and hear your present equipment in its best light and I think that the digital cabling is a cheap area to try and improve. The other area is mains conditioning which is a whole different thread... Also - for free - make sure the drive units in your 20-year old speakers are still tight - check the nuts/screws that moun the drive units to the cabinets. I had some Tannoys that needed tightening every 6 months... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Brian - what sort of cable do you have between the SB and DAC? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Labarum;358864 Wrote: A good quality optical link supplied by Stanley Bereford. In all seriousness, I suggest you order a 1.5m (this length is important - 1m is too short) BlueJeans Belden 1694a spdif coax cable - it will cost peanuts (well OK - about £20+). If you don't think it is an improvement, I'll buy it from you at cost! (I need another one). http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/digital-audio/index.htm Do this before you even think about a Transporter. The SB is not connected to mains earth. You don't get any benefits of using optical (ie galvanic isolation). You do get the inherent drawbacks...it's NOT just about the Toslink cable, it's also about the transmitter and receivers interfaces. Regards Phil -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Labarum;358992 Wrote: Yep, that's about it; but, Themis, you still haven't answered my direct question: have you heard both the Transporter and the SB3/Beresford combination?Didn't I ? I thought I had said I did. :) Not in a direct comparison though, but I did listened to both. My long-term auditive memory is accurate enough... although I may forget where the heck I left my keys. ;) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
mswlogo;358998 Wrote: The SB3 looked dorky and cheap and in a $30K system it looked out of place. I'm sorry but that is not correct, IMO. I have a circa $30k system and it looks just fine. It also sounds just fine - in fact it sounds to me as good as a dcs, wadia or EMM Labs stack costing as much again! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal...SB3+Stontronics PSU - Altmann JISCO/UPCI - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods)- Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Kimber Chord cables Outdoors: Boombox+Creative Sub (If I remember to turn it on...) Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
There is a big difference between a Transporter and the Beresford dac. To keep it simple, the TP is much better everywhere, enough for justifying its price. :) But, I'm sure that you can have certain setups where the difference is hard to tell : in that case, it is the setup's problem, I'm afraid. :) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Themis;358849 Wrote: There is a big difference between a Transporter and the Beresford dac. To keep it simple, the TP is much better everywhere, enough for justifying its price. :) But, I'm sure that you can have certain setups where the difference is hard to tell : in that case, it is the setup's problem, I'm afraid. :) OK Have you heard both playing 16/44.1 files? -- Labarum Brian Beresford DAC - Quad 405-2 refurbished by 405man - Quart 980s German Tower Loudspeakers. FLAC through Foobar, XP and ASIO Squeezebox 3 Classic Virgin Cable Box No FM reception for Quad tuner - but both digital radio sources are better Labarum's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=19963 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Phil Leigh;359011 Wrote: I'm sorry but that is not correct, IMO. I have a circa $30k system and it looks just fine. It also sounds just fine - in fact it sounds to me as good as a dcs, wadia or EMM Labs stack costing as much again!I can only agree. (especially when you have an MF modded triplet in the equation ;)) Anyway, I suspect mswlogo to speak mainly about the -looks- of the SB3, not the sound. -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
mswlogo;359029 Wrote: But when it looks something like this I do care (by the way I hate the look of the PS3 and the noisy fan and will eventually swap it out). http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.Meridian looks very nice, you're right to put it in the middle. ;) (what I did with my PS3 is that I put it in a closed shelf: as the gamepads are wireless, I only open the shelf to change the game/record. I agree it's not very pretty) -- Themis SB3 - North Star dac 192 - Denon 3808 - Sonus Faber Grand Piano Domus Themis's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Phil Leigh;359011 Wrote: I'm sorry but that is not correct, IMO. I have a circa $30k system and it looks just fine. It also sounds just fine - in fact it sounds to me as good as a dcs, wadia or EMM Labs stack costing as much again! That's totally a matter of opinion. SB3 looks like a toy. It sounds fine and is a bargain for what it does, but it still looks like a toy. Reminds me of a simon says toy my daughter had when she was a toddler. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP 6000, 5500HC, 33 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP 5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP 5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Themis;359042 Wrote: Meridian looks very nice, you're right to put it in the middle. ;) (what I did with my PS3 is that I put it in a closed shelf: as the gamepads are wireless, I only open the shelf to change the game/record. I agree it's not very pretty) Too much heat for closing any of it. Its raised too and it still runs pretty darn warm. The cooler it runs the lower the fans run and therefore quieter. That's why it's on top (heat rises) and it's the only component I really have to physically touch. P.S. I just got the coolest device for the PS3 so I can go ALL digital right to each amp for each driver. See (long thread) http://meridianunplugged.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflatNumber=80044#Post80044 -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP 6000, 5500HC, 33 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP 5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP 5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter versus SB3 with Beresford DAC
Themis;359019 Wrote: I can only agree. (especially when you have an MF modded triplet in the equation ;)) Anyway, I suspect mswlogo to speak mainly about the -looks- of the SB3, not the sound. When a system looks like this it really doesn't matter. http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=76431postcount=4 But when it looks something like this I do care (by the way I hate the look of the PS3 and the noisy fan and will eventually swap it out). http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45 Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. If you spend any kind of serious money on audio you are kidding yourself if looks doesn't matter. It also depends where your system is (living room vs say your Home Office). I have some other ugly setups too where I don't care what it looks like and I have the SB3 hooked up. As far as sound they both sound the same on a decent DAC and this board spends way to much energy on debating it. The looks is the most significant difference if you hook them both to a decent DAC. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP 6000, 5500HC, 33 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP 5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP 5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=54947 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
seanadams;288609 Wrote: Audible to whom? To the average audiophile with highish end equipment , going to , lets say, a decent dac.. IE as the OP asked , would it be a worthwhile excercise to buy a TP over a SB3 just for the better digital output of the TP... ? To me , with various dacs , there is no discernable differnce using either via their SPDIF output... -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
Rodney_Gold;289072 Wrote: To the average audiophile with highish end equipment , going to , lets say, a decent dac.. What decent DAC? IMHO Transporter is not merely decent, but in fact the best DAC on the market... so my recommendation is to use its internal DAC and circumvent S/PDIF altogether. IE as the OP asked , would it be a worthwhile excercise to buy a TP over a SB3 just for the better digital output of the TP... ? I think each buyer would need to weigh their own values, hearing abilities, expected use scenarios, etc and make that decision for himself. Certainly Transporter has a LOT of valuable features in addition to just a better S/PDIF output, so I find it odd that anyone's buying decision should hinge on s/pdif jitter alone. To me , with various dacs , there is no discernable differnce using either via their SPDIF output... Well OK then... -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
To whom it may concern. A fanatic is someone who cant change his mind and wont change the subject. (Quot Winston Churchill) -- harmonic harmonic's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6879 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
opaqueice;288436 Wrote: I don't agree at all - audibility is -not- a separate argument. We're talking about audio DACs intended to be connected to a stereo system and listened to. A change in the output at -140dB, while it might be measurable, is not relevant. Actually it is. When SD changed the SB3 firmware volume control, a number of people heard a reduction is sound quality - including me. We weren't aware of what had been done (or even that something had been done) and so this was effectively a blind test. You seem not to appreciate the difference in inaudibility between truly random noise, and other low-level distortions - if dithering is applied to the rounding process, you should be able to make the noise random, and therefore I'd expect it to be inaudible. However, non-random distortions even at very low levels can definitely be audible. opaqueice;288436 Wrote: In any case there are (relatively inexpensive) DACs out there which - at least as far as I can tell from published measurements - are totally immune to jitter. Given that that's possible, there is no excuse for a high-end DAC not to reduce the effects of jitter to the point where they are inaudible. A DAC which doesn't do that is not designed properly. Published measurements do not tell the whole story. As a scientist (assuming you are) you should know that there are very few absolutes, and so 'totally immune to jitter' is a meaningless phrase anyway. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
pfarrell;288375 Wrote: I've never understood why the audiophile magazines drool over transports. All they are required to do is deliver a bit stream. ... and a highly accurate timing reference. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
So Sean, the $1000,000 question, is the Transporter's digital output better than the SB3's? If so is it an audible difference? -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
Patrick Dixon;288459 Wrote: ... and a highly accurate timing reference. Yes that is true and that is why S/PDIF is architecturally brain dead. I don't like it for that reason. However, some DAC manufacturers e.g. Benchmark have published measurements which show that output distortion doesn't increase with increased input jitter (up to a silly maximum of input jitter). To me this is strong evidence of isolation from the S/PDIF-borne clock. In other words, immunity from input jitter in real world situations. So, in some cases - one might name these cases as 'decent DACs' - the main S/PDIF problem has been circumvented. Now, one may question the truth of these measurements. I note we are on a manufacturers forum here, and I am not inclined to believe published measurements are plain lies. And it is not only Benchmark who makes these claims. Secondly, one can imagine how in principle it is possible to isolate the S/PDIF clock using buffering techniques (albeit not without challenges). That doesn't make me like S/PDIF any more though. I think it's still dumb. :) Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Krell KAV-300i (pre bypass) - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
Patrick Dixon;288456 Wrote: Actually it is. When SD changed the SB3 firmware volume control, a number of people heard a reduction is sound quality - including me. We weren't aware of what had been done (or even that something had been done) and so this was effectively a blind test. Nearly every time SD changed the firmware lots of people heard the difference. Quite remarkable, considering most of the revisions didn't affect the audio chain. You seem not to appreciate the difference in inaudibility between truly random noise, and other low-level distortions - if dithering is applied to the rounding process, you should be able to make the noise random, and therefore I'd expect it to be inaudible. However, non-random distortions even at very low levels can definitely be audible. Please provide evidence that anything (-regardless- of its spectrum) at -140dB is audible at ordinary listening levels. -Maybe- with your ear on top of the tweeter, nothing else playing, and the volume cranked you could hear something. Published measurements do not tell the whole story. I didn't say they did. As a scientist (assuming you are) you should know that there are very few absolutes, and so 'totally immune to jitter' is a meaningless phrase anyway. As the manufacturer and marketer of a SB modification you would say so, wouldn't you? -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
opaqueice;288563 Wrote: Nearly every time SD changed the firmware lots of people heard the difference. Quite remarkable, considering most of the revisions didn't affect the audio chain. That was after that particular revision, which sowed the seed in people's minds that fw changes might affect audio performance. FWIW, I can't hear any difference between fw revisions other than that particular one, despite careful comparative listening. opaqueice;288563 Wrote: As the manufacturer and marketer of a SB modification you would say so, wouldn't you?Actually as a highly skilled and trained engineer, very familiar with the technologies and techniques involved, I would say so. OTOH, you as a professional skeptic would trot out the same FUD nonsense wouldn't you? -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
darrenyeats;288532 Wrote: However, some DAC manufacturers e.g. Benchmark have published measurements which show that output distortion doesn't increase with increased input jitter (up to a silly maximum of input jitter). To me this is strong evidence of isolation from the S/PDIF-borne clock. In other words, immunity from input jitter in real world situations. That's assuming that their measurements and measurement techniques are -really - applicable to 'real world situations'. However, since I (and others) can hear the difference between bit-identical transports through their DAC, I don't believe they are. YMMV. -- Patrick Dixon www.at-tunes.co.uk Patrick Dixon's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=90 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
Rodney_Gold;288527 Wrote: So Sean, the $1000,000 question, is the Transporter's digital output better than the SB3's? Absolutely... jitter amplitude is about half as much. This is achieved through the use of a higher quality oscillator, a reclocking circuit which cleans up the signal right at the output connector, and control of power supply noise. But in any case, if you really care about jitter that would be irrelevant, because you'd be using either Transporter's internal DAC, or if you're using an external DAC you'd have a word clock connection. Even perfect clocking at the source can only go so far to overcome the problems of s/pdif - most of the jitter is introduced at the receiver chip, and it can even be data-correlated there. If so is it an audible difference? Audible to whom? -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
Patrick Dixon wrote: opaqueice;288563 Wrote: As the manufacturer and marketer of a SB modification you would say so, wouldn't you?Actually as a highly skilled and trained engineer, very familiar with the technologies and techniques involved, I would say so. OTOH, you as a professional skeptic would trot out the same FUD nonsense wouldn't you? Patrick, I've stopped bothering to respond to his dogmatic ramblings. It's a shame as his general approach is often right, but he spoils it with his dogmatic stance, protecting his statements with qualifying conditional clauses which he then states are trivial but are actually highly significant. In a perfect, theoretical world, he is totally correct. Unfortunately, as most of us know and accept, this world of ours is not perfect. R. ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
The difference is HUGE. Have you tried using Linux rather than Windows to host SqueezeCentre? A veil may be lifted. -- amcluesent amcluesent's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10286 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
So my stuff is low end junk and yours is high , so thats why the differences in my case werent huge? -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
Manelus;287972 Wrote: TP and Audio Note DAC can't be broken, since they sound great. If two different digital sources going into the same DAC sound different, the DAC is broken - by definition. The function of a DAC is to convert a digital stream into analogue. If you feed it the same digital stream and get a different analogue output, it isn't working. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
My meridians have 2 digital inputs, I just took SPDIF from a SB and from a TP using the EXACT same cables and synched both players and did both sighted and blind AB tests on each , no matching required. There was no discernable difference at all tween either the SB and TP. To further the test , I used a Theta transport and a Jolida CDP's spdif out and tried my best to synch a cd and either the SB's or the TP's spdif output and did the same testing (neither were truly double blind ABX) and did not notice any difference between em, well nothing I could swear blind to so to speak. Right now Im using my Z-sys's digital pre (seamless input switching) to do the same thing to an audio alchemy dac (yeh its a little dated) and into my headphone amp and a set of top notch senns. Im trying my best to see if there is any difference tween the SB and the TP and so far , granted wth ME switching tween the 2, there is nada into another offboard dac.??? So what does this mean , the only 2 conclusions are that A) there is no discerbable difference or B) my ears are flucked and I cant hear well. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
As Opaqueice indicated, if a DAC is working (I'd use the phrase really good), it should sort out jitter, and so should be independent of transport. In principle, the SB3 should sound the same as the TP. In practice, I don't quite hold with the 'perfect DAC' position, but certainly I have struggled to hear much difference between transports into decent DACs. The other thing to try is to spend longer listening than just an A/B swap. I have often found myself listening much later with better digital sources, despite not being able to readily pick them apart in quick A/B tests. -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
So any transport feeding same DAC would sound the same? Come on! -- Manelus Manelus's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
Manelus;288366 Wrote: So any transport feeding same DAC would sound the same? Come on! If it's functioning as it's supposed to, yes - by definition. And there are plenty of DACs that do that, according to all evidence. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
Manelus wrote: So any transport feeding same DAC would sound the same? Come on! Pretty much. I've never understood why the audiophile magazines drool over transports. All they are required to do is deliver a bit stream. -- Pat Farrell http://www.pfarrell.com/ ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
Manelus;287558 Wrote: I have tryed both (Transported and SB3) with an external DAC (Audio Note). Rest of the Stuff: Plinius Tautoro (preamp) Plinius SA reference (amp) Dynaudio Sapphire (speakers) Audio Note (Interconects). I'm not talking about measurements or tech considerations, only EAR. The difference is HUGE. Then I agree with Rodney - either the TP, the SB, or the DAC is broken. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
opaqueice;287922 Wrote: Then I agree with Rodney - either the TP, the SB, or the DAC is broken. TP and Audio Note DAC can't be broken, since they sound great. So maybe SB is broken (I'll try to borrow another one to make sure, but honestly I don't think there will be any differnce). Please note I'm talking about High End stuff. And, see my avatar?, we dogs have good ear :) :) :) You humans THINK more than listen :) :) :) -- Manelus Manelus's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
I have tryed both (Transported and SB3) with an external DAC (Audio Note). Rest of the Stuff: Plinius Tautoro (preamp) Plinius SA reference (amp) Dynaudio Sapphire (speakers) Audio Note (Interconects). I'm not talking about measurements or tech considerations, only EAR. The difference is HUGE. -- Manelus Manelus's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
Manelus;287558 Wrote: ... I'm not talking about measurements or tech considerations, only EAR. ... and eye? K -- slimkid The sound stage will open up, bass will tighten and the imaging will improve. DVD performance will also increase substantially. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iAj2aPdQnk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvMNuuFSvN0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDRhRv4q_SI http://youtube.com/watch?v=nlrpe8Ig5m8 http://youtube.com/watch?v=dC9tGlwPln8 slimkid's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8881 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
If there's a HUGE difference , something is broken , cos I not only compared SB and TP but a transport too (theta Jade) , any differences were marginal, if existant .. However the analog output of SB/TP and CDP's all differed quite a lot. The Sb/TP sounded more similar to each other than my CDP which is a Jolida and uses valves. I don't like the TP's analog much, perhaps to accurate for my taste. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
CPC;285896 Wrote: Since the Duet's digital section is the same as the SB3, check out this excellent thread on improving the digital output: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...?topic=45330.0 The link does not work. Can you give us the title of the tread and the name of the circle in which it is ? Thanks Chris -- krzys krzys's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2256 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
Try this: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/index.php?topic=45330.0 -- Siduhe Siduhe's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=723 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
... -- krzys krzys's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2256 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
If your Theta has a clock out, you can use the clock in of the Transporter; this should virtually eliminate jitter, and give the best results. If there is no clock out, then I would expect the Transporter to be slightly better than the SB3 but the difference may be minimal or even unnoticeable. The SB3 is a pretty good transport. You may also consider a modded SB3 such as the SB+, which has a digital-only version for £800 - better value in the UK than the US! -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
You will get no diff tween the Sb and the transporter re the spdif out , I have both and have not heard any diff tween the 2. I tried both directly to my Meridian DSP speakers , via a Z-sys RDP-1, Via a TACT 2.0 and via a meridian 518, on most of these I can do all sort of things like resample, dither and some are de-jittering devices , nothing made a difference between the SB and TP I bought a transporter cos I wanted it's dac for a headphone system and a set of ATC actives used ina different location, and to be honest, I'm not that impressed by its sound using it as a total front end. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
[EMAIL PROTECTED];285488 Wrote: I just purchased a Duet, and love the interface. I can use its receiver for a 2nd zone, however I am looking for the best possible sound for our main system. We use a Theta Casablanca III with Extreme D/A Cards for the main system. I intend to use either an SPDIF or AES/EBU input to the Casablanca to do the D/A conversion rather than the DACs in the Transporter or the SB3. The question is will the Digital output of the Transporter be enough of an improvement over an SB3 to justify its cost? Also will it be an improvement at all regardless of cost? Thanks for your input. Since the Duet's digital section is the same as the SB3, check out this excellent thread on improving the digital output: http://www.audiocircle.com/circles/i...?topic=45330.0 -- CPC CPC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12336 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter of SB3
I think this says it all At no time will I attempt to listen to the results. Dan (jhm731) will do that, once the unit is returned to him. I not only will not listen to it, but I have neither the computer h/w or s/w to do anything with it. BesidesI almost never listen to the stuff I design. Like someone improving a recipe but never tasting it. -- Rodney_Gold Sb3/Z-sys RDP1/meridian DSP5500's TP/X-cans v3/Senns 650's TP/TACT 2.0/SCM 50a's TP/Meridian DSP5000's The nicest thing about smacking your head against the wall is...the feeling you get when you stop Rodney_Gold's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14618 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=45561 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs SB3 worthwhile for this system?
Colleagues, I'd like your opinion on whether the Transporter would be worthwhile for my 2 channel system, or whether I should experiment with the SB3. I have a modified Cary SLC-50B tube preamp and a Cary CAD-808 (Rocket-88) running in triode mode with QED Silver Anniversary biwire cables and Ruark Prologue II speakers. I have a Rega Planet CD player, probably the weak link. I'm quite content with the sound of this system. -- kimballhouse kimballhouse's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15215 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42786 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs SB3 worthwhile for this system?
kimballhouse;263064 Wrote: Colleagues, I'd like your opinion on whether the Transporter would be worthwhile for my 2 channel system, or whether I should experiment with the SB3. I have a modified Cary SLC-50B tube preamp and a Cary CAD-808 (Rocket-88) running in triode mode with QED Silver Anniversary biwire cables and Ruark Prologue II speakers. I have a Rega Planet CD player, probably the weak link. I'm quite content with the sound of this system. If you don't plan to use an external DAC, then the Transporter would sound better. The SB3 and a top quality DAC would also be a worthwhile addition to your system, most probably exceeding the sound of the Rega Planet. I know, I owned one! -- crooner Customized dual chassis Super Squeezebox EAD DSP-7000 Series III DAC with HDCD and mods. VPI Scout with Benz Micro Glider M2 Marantz 10B tube FM tuner Audio Research PH3, SP16L and VS110 Vandersteen 2Ce signatures, 2W subwoofer. crooner's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3379 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42786 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs SB3 worthwhile for this system?
I've little doubt your system is good enough to merit a Transporter, but why not start off with a SB3 and see if you like it all? Trust me, if you decide to get a TP later you'll find somewhere to use the SB3 - very nice in a kitchen system :) -- adamslim Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others SB+, EAR V20, Living Voice OBX-R2s plus some other stuff SB3, Charlize, Harbeth HL-P3ES adamslim's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7355 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42786 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs SB3 worthwhile for this system?
I would suggest otherwise. Get the Transporter! your system will thank you. Sell your Planet, and get ready for the next upgrade, because the TP will make you rebuild your system around it. If you can, invest on something that will satisfyingly stay in your system for a while. Good luck -- GuyDebord Reference 3A Royal Master monitors biwired with van den Hul Inspiration, REL Strata 5 sub. AMP: Pathos Classic One MKIII. ANALOGUE: Michell Gyro SE, Technoarm Lyra Helikon SL, ASR Mini Basis SQ phono preamp, link: WireWorld Silver Eclipse 5.2. DIGITAL: SlimDevices Transporter, link: Acoustic Zen Silver Reference2 XLRs. POWER: Isotek MiniSub GII, Isotek Elite cables (MiniSub, Rel), Siltech SPX30 MKII (Transporter), van den Hul Mainstream (Pathos) van den Hul Mainserver (ASR). GuyDebord's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=14587 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=42786 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs SB3 as transport
See http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=36561 Regards, Darren -- darrenyeats Monarchy CLD-M401 transport - Sony DAS-703ES DAC - Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (home-made room treatments and supports) darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37095 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs SB3 as transport
It would be nice to compare the Bel Canto with the Transporter DAC! stevo -- stevo stevo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6250 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37095 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs SB3 as transport
You have the same system as I do (except the speakers). I would try (if you haven't already) using the balanced outputs on the transporter straight into the Ref1000's and using the digital volume control on the Transporter. No need for the DAC3 in this situation. I use a Bolder Cables modified SB3 (digital) into the DAC3 connected via the balanced output of the DAC3 and also powerbook connected via USB. I couldn't be happier. If I didn't use the powerbook as a source I would probably get rid of the DAC3 and use a transporter only. Call me strange, but I prefer itunes and front row to slimserver, although I would be hard pressed to tell if they sound any different. In answer to your question, I would guess that the digital out on the TP is better than that of the SB3, but with your setup, the direct connection between the TP and Ref1000's would yield better results. Maybe someone else can chip in who has actually done the comparison! -- sonofcolin sonofcolin's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9291 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37095 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter vs SB3 as transport
I have an SB3, and I've just bought a Bel Canto DAC3. Question is: is it worth buying the Transporter to replace the SB3 as a transport? Or is the money better off being spent elsewhere? I'm running the following: SB3Bel Canto DAC3 Bel Canto REF1000s BW 803Ds -- hughdub hughdub's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12507 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=37095 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter and SB3 in Top 10 Stereophile links
This is kind of cool. Both the review and preview for the SB3 and Transporter, respectively, were among the 'top 10 visited links' (http://www.stereophile.com/news/010107links) on the Stereophile website. Yet another demonstration of the shifting audiophile landscape. -- ezkcdude DIY projects page: http://www.ezdiyaudio.com System: SB3-EZDAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=31249 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
