Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
gizek;544487 Wrote: Please try balanced configuration and let us know. Still not convinced about that 60Hz and harmonic group spikes existence ;-) Those spikes are the test signals! They are supposed to be there! The Intermod test signal is a 60Hz and 7k pair at -5dB and -17dB respectively The THD test is 1kHz @ -3dB The dynamic range is 997Hz @ -60dB ...and so on. If you get a 50/60hz peak on anything other than the Intermod test that would be mains breakthrough! +---+ |Filename: CropperCapture[1].jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9864| +---+ -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
there are some nasty spikes out there -- gizek Transporter Adcom GFP-750 Monarchy Audio SM-70Pro monoblocks Proac Studio 100; Cardas Neutral Reference all over gizek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34337 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
gizek;544186 Wrote: there are some nasty spikes out there You can ignore the spikes - they are an artifact of the RMAA software -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA generated test tone file... Note that whilst the Touch is slightly noisier than the TP (but not in a way you can actually hear!) it has less distortion. This is probably showing the difference of the TP PSU vs the Touch and the diference in DAC chips and output circuitry. I'm using a soundcard whose ADC outperforms (less noise/distortion) the one in the other test - so this isn't an apples to apples comparison and no conclusions on Touch vs TP can be drawn. +---+ |Filename: CropperCapture[1].jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9849| +---+ -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA generated test tone file... Note that whilst the Touch is slightly noisier than the TP (but not in a way you can actually hear!) it has less distortion. This is probably showing the difference of the TP PSU vs the Touch and the diference in DAC chips and output circuitry. I'm using a soundcard whose ADC outperforms (less noise/distortion) the one in the other test - so this isn't an apples to apples comparison and no conclusions on Touch vs TP can be drawn. +---+ |Filename: CropperCapture[1].jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9849| +---+ -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Phil Leigh;544213 Wrote: You can ignore the spikes - they are an artifact of the RMAA software Interesting. The spikes are quite clearly a 60Hz fundamental plus harmonics. My initial assumption was that it is some kind of mains frequency breakthrough. But you say it's to do with the software, which confuses me. What possible software issue would create this effect? -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
cliveb;544233 Wrote: Interesting. The spikes are quite clearly a 60Hz fundamental plus harmonics. My initial assumption was that it is some kind of mains frequency breakthrough. But you say it's to do with the software, which confuses me. What possible software issue would create this effect? Sorry - I meant the 1k/2k/3k spikes not the AC harmonic ones... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Phil Leigh;544219 Wrote: Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA generated test tone file... Note that whilst the Touch is slightly noisier than the TP (but not in a way you can actually hear!) it has less distortion. This is probably showing the difference of the TP PSU vs the Touch and the diference in DAC chips and output circuitry. I'm using a soundcard whose ADC outperforms (less noise/distortion) the one in the other test - so this isn't an apples to apples comparison and no conclusions on Touch vs TP can be drawn. And it still shows for a 2-bit Shift you lose almost 1-bit of dynamic range. In my book that's a huge loss for a modest change. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
cliveb;544233 Wrote: Interesting. The spikes are quite clearly a 60Hz fundamental plus harmonics. My initial assumption was that it is some kind of mains frequency breakthrough. But you say it's to do with the software, which confuses me. What possible software issue would create this effect? Good catch. I'll try to locate it. I hate unbalanced analog it's so susceptible that. I bet if I used balanced it would go away. Doing a different test with the exact same rig (in unbalanced analog as well) on the Meridian it's much cleaner. But there is 60hz bump. http://meridianunplugged.com/downloads/ComparisonG68AnalogCalTest/Comparison.htm -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Touch graphs +---+ |Filename: CropperCapture[3].jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9852| +---+ -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Phil Leigh;544219 Wrote: Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA generated test tone file... Thanks for this. -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Phil Leigh;544219 Wrote: Here is a similar test using RMAA on a Touch with a 16/44.1 RMAA generated test tone file... Thanks for this. -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
mswlogo;544182 Wrote: Enjoy. http://meridianunplugged.com/downloads/ComparisonTransporterDigitalAttenutionTest/Comparison.htm Ah this is what you referred to on the other thread! Thanks. Again, assuming this is accurate, the degradation is very non-linear like with the SB. 2.1db down on the first 12db of attenuation, then a further 8.1db down on the next 12db of attenuation. Of course much lower loss of dynamic range per db of attenuation and, as predicted, yet more non-linear. But I'm surprised the results don't show a much lower loss of dynamic range overall. I don't understand the -6db column. Is the dynamic range really worse at -6db than at -12db? That looks incorrect - or maybe I misunderstand. Was a 16 bit signal used for the test? Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
darrenyeats;544311 Wrote: Ah this is what you referred to on the other thread! Thanks. Again, assuming this is accurate, the degradation is non-linear like with the SB. 2.1db down on the first 12db of attenuation, then a further 8.1db down on the next 12db of attenuation. Of course much lower loss of dynamic range per db of attenuation and, as predicted, yet more non-linear. But I'm surprised the results don't show a much lower loss of dynamic range overall. I don't understand the -6db column. Is the dynamic range really worse at -6db than at -12db? That looks incorrect - or maybe I misunderstand. Was a 16 bit signal used for the test? Darren There's something odd about THAT test - the DR and Noise results don't add up at -6dB - and I'm not convinced the attenuation settings are correct. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
My test of Touch dac repeated at 24/96 +---+ |Filename: CropperCapture[1].jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9854| +---+ -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/XP) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
darrenyeats;544311 Wrote: Ah this is what you referred to on the other thread! Thanks. Again, assuming this is accurate, the degradation is non-linear like with the SB. 2.1db down on the first 12db of attenuation, then a further 8.1db down on the next 12db of attenuation. Of course much lower loss of dynamic range per db of attenuation and, as predicted, yet more non-linear. But I'm surprised the results don't show a much lower loss of dynamic range overall. I don't understand the -6db column. Is the dynamic range really worse at -6db than at -12db? That looks incorrect - or maybe I misunderstand. Was a 16 bit signal used for the test? Darren I agree. It behaved oddly. That 60hz noise may be causing issues. I plan to run it on balanced. But I need to pickup a cable. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
mswlogo;544365 Wrote: I agree. It behaved oddly. That 60hz noise may be causing issues. I plan to run it on balanced. But I need to pickup a cable. Cool. darrenyeats;544311 Wrote: Was a 16 bit signal used for the test? Darren I'm interested in a 16/44 signal, personally. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
darrenyeats;544379 Wrote: Cool. I'm interested in a 16/44 signal, personally. Darren It was 16/44. It's in the Report. I will run 24/44 as well. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
mswlogo;544381 Wrote: It was 16/44. It's in the Report. I will run 24/44 as well. Do you mean Sampling mode: 16-bit, 44 kHz? I assumed this was the ADC mode, not the digital signal that is input. Darren -- darrenyeats http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/richpub/listmania/byauthor/A3H57URKQB8AQO/ref=cm_pdp_content_listmania/203-7606506-5721503. (Inguz bass EQ'd) SB3 - (pre bypassed) Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 (caps bass EQ'd) Desktop - Genius Slab SW-flat2.1 700 Sennheiser HD 25-1 II darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
darrenyeats;544386 Wrote: Do you mean Sampling mode: 16-bit, 44 kHz? I assumed this was the ADC mode, not the digital signal that is input. Darren Live in and Live out. It's both. All testing was Live in and out. There is only one data rate setting Per Action (Record/Play, Record, Play). I used Record/Play. I was also not sure if RightMark assumes it's always paired since it behaved that way when they are tied together (i.e. live in and live out). I think this is what they mean by loop back mode. -- mswlogo XP Cat5 Transporter/DuetController SPDIF Meridian G68 DSP6000, DSP5500HC, DSP5000 XP Cat5 SB3 SPDIF Meridian DSP5000 XP Cat5 DuetReceiver SPDIF Meridian G91 DSP5000 'My Transporter Setup' (http://forums.slimdevices.com/showpost.php?p=350741postcount=45) 'Hitch Hikers Guide to Meridian' (http://www.meridianunplugged.com) mswlogo's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9090 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Testing of Transporter using Digital Attenuation
Please try balanced configuration and let us know. Still not convinced about that 60Hz and harmonic group spikes existence ;-) -- gizek Transporter Adcom GFP-750 Monarchy Audio SE-100 monoblocks Proac Studio 100; Cardas Neutral Reference all over gizek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34337 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=78408 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles