Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
I do not _know_ that the Transporter word clock in outputs something. seanadams says it does not (That also means it cannot I presume). I might have been fooled into some audiophile truth that wordclock in is better than no word clock in, also for a DAC. The Meitner and dCS DACs have wordclock in, right? And they are expensive and good, right? But they are not data sources and DACs at the same time. Status: I now have the RME controlling the Behringer's output timing by Wordclock and the Transporter DAC input by the clock signal embedded in the spdif signal. And it works. Case closed. -- Valentino Valentino's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
bhaagensen;510237 Wrote: Hi, Valentino: How do you know that 'Wordclock IN' actually outputs something, rather than e.g. simply doing nothing? Maybe you wrote it, but I couldn't find an exact reason. That was my initial reaction since the Behringer's happy lights went all unhappy and the whole system stopped playing when i tried activating Wordclock In while in asynchronous mode. Let me add that the reason for using the Behringer is because of web radio which seems to favour 48kHz. I must have web radio. My hirez-files are not that many, and I've made 44.1kHz SRC-copies of them already. On the fly sample rate conversion in Squeezeboxserver would be nice of course, but AFAIK the server only allows for conversion to 1/2 or 1/4 Fs depending on Squeezebox model. -- Valentino Valentino's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
Valentino;510286 Wrote: That was my initial reaction since the Behringer's happy lights went all unhappy and the whole system stopped playing when i tried activating Wordclock In while in asynchronous mode. Let me add that the reason for using the Behringer is because of web radio which seems to favour 48kHz. I must have web radio. My hirez-files are not that many, and I've made 44.1kHz SRC-copies of them already. On the fly sample rate conversion in Squeezeboxserver would be nice of course, but AFAIK the server only allows for conversion to 1/2 or 1/4 Fs depending on Squeezebox model. Assuming you are running on a PC, you can remove the Behringer completely and force SOX on the Server to resample EVERYTHING going to the TP to 44.1 or 48 or 88.2 or 96 - regardless of its original sample rate. By the way, you are not going to get a low-jitter solution using two DAC's running at the same time in parallel, one for the tweeters and one for the woofers... unless they are the SAME DAC they won't get close to each other in terms of sample timing and all sorts of odd things will be happening to the sound. You shouldn't have more than one clock master... and ONE DAC has to provide that. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W - MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
What level of jitter-induced distortion can one expect? -- Valentino Valentino's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
Valentino;510322 Wrote:
What level of jitter-induced distortion can one expect?
I haven't been able to understand how to make SOX do fixed 44.1. That
would be nice.
This will resample all flacs to 44100:
flc flc * *
# FT:{START=--skip=%t}U:{END=--until=%v}D:{RESAMPLE=-r %d}
[flac] -dcs $START$ $END$ -- $FILE$ | [sox] -v0.998 -q -t wav - -t flac
-C 0 - rate -v 44100
paste this into custom-convert.conf (replacing the previous flc flc * *
entry), shutdown and restart SBS.
--
Phil Leigh
You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it
ain't what you'd call minimal...
SB Touch Beta (wired) - TACT 2.2X (Linear PSU) + Good Vibrations S/W -
MF Triplethreat(Audiocom full mods) - Linn 5103 - Aktiv 5.1 system (6x
LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Townsend Supertweeters, Blue
Jeans Digital,Kimber Speaker Chord Interconnect cables
Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio
Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85
View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
Can you explain in more detail what you want to accomplish? I don't think word clock has been tested in this context, but it's not clear to me that what you're doing is a valid application for it either. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
seanadams;510024 Wrote: Can you explain in more detail what you want to accomplish? I don't think word clock has been tested in this context, but it's not clear to me that what you're doing is a valid application for it either. Thanks for replying, seanadams. The basis is that I would like to syncronize the receiving end of the effect loop to word clock in instead of the clock embedded in the spdif signal as I do believe that it will reduce jitter in the system. The loop is as follows: Transporter - Behringer SRC2496 (converts all to 44.1) - RME Fireface UC + PC with crossover running at 44.1 - Transporter (- Tweeter amp.) To clarify: My little digital round trip works fine if the Transporter uses SPDIF input as clock source, but Wordclock in seems to OUTPUT something when I select it as clock source. -- Valentino Valentino's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
Valentino;510033 Wrote: Thanks for replying, seanadams. The basis is that I would like to syncronize the receiving end of the effect loop to word clock in instead of the clock embedded in the spdif signal as I do believe that it will reduce jitter in the system. It will not. Word clocks should never be used to drive a DAC. It should only go in the _opposite_ direction as the data signal. The loop is as follows: Transporter - Behringer SRC2496 (converts all to 44.1) - RME Fireface UC + PC with crossover running at 44.1 - Transporter (- Tweeter amp.) To clarify: My little digital round trip works fine if the Transporter uses SPDIF input as clock source, I assume the reason for the SRC is that you may be playing 96KHz tracks? If everything were the same rate and there is no asynchronous conversion taking place, then you could run the effects loop in synchrnonous clock mode. This is the absolutely ideal scenario where the clock path never leaves the Transporter - your effects loop is only a data path. but Wordclock in seems to OUTPUT something when I select it as clock source. Data sources take word clock in. DACS produce work clock out. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
Okay. I may be getting it if you can help me with a couple more questions: Even if the BNC is labeled Wordclock In it is actually Wordclock Out? If so: Is the wordclock signal generated from the spdif input Transporter receives from my RME? Thanks again. -- Valentino Valentino's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
Valentino;510043 Wrote: Okay. I may be getting it if you can help me with a couple more questions: Even if the BNC is labeled Wordclock In it is actually Wordclock Out? No, it is a word clock in, as labeled. It is used when Transporter is acting as a data source (clock slave) feeding data to an external DAC which has word clock out. Transporter _also_ supports word clock out - in this mode the s/pdif output connectors are repurposed as word clock outputs. That allows Transpoter to act as a DAC for an external data source (eg a CD transport having word clock in). This is not applicable in your case. If so: Is the wordclock signal generated from the spdif input Transporter receives from my RME? Can you rephrase that? Trying to incorporate a word clock into a effects loop context is a weird case because the Transporter is both the data source and the DAC, and yet these functions are decoupled across either side of the effects loop. But I did foresee the value of being able to have the DAC as clock master while in loop mode, and that is exactly what the synchronous clock mode is for. Even if we had supported a word clock in this mode via a dedicated output port, it would still necessarily have the restriction that the loop processor not modify the clock rate. So there was no point - it already does exactly what you want without needing the external connection. There are not a lot of definitive reports as to what digital processors work properly in synchronous loop mode. I know that behringer DEQs do, but Tact DRCs do not (due to ASRC). It would be a good subject for a wiki page. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
Trying to rephrase: Judging by the behaviour of seems to me that Wordclock In OUTPUTS something when I try to use it in my application with the RME as master. Quite unexpected. I will have to read you replies again (and again probably). Very educational, thank you. -- Valentino Valentino's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
Valentino;510059 Wrote: Trying to rephrase: Judging by the behaviour of seems to me that Wordclock In OUTPUTS something when I try to use it in my application with the RME as master. Quite unexpected. I still don't know what you mean by that. It is an input and that's all there is to it. -- seanadams seanadams's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Transporter: Wordclock in and Processor Loop
Okay. So the Transporter just does not like the combo Wordclock in and Asyncronous mode. I still haven't understood why. Shall reread your posts. Thanks again. -- Valentino Valentino's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15986 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=74426 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
