Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[cubley]

My observation is twofold. I agree with Phil's synopsis, an easy glider to 
fly is a better mount for less experienced pilots, and the more expereinced 
just wish they had the easier glider to fly, but get away with it. 

For a low experience pilot they can probably achieve 80kph whether in the 
Cirrus or the Discus, because their lack of experience doesn't let them get 
the benefit of the higher performance. If you spend 50+% of your flight 
circling then the glide performance is not as beneficial. In a handicap 
class you are therefore better to have a lower performance glider that is 
better matched to your individual performance than to have a high 
performance glider which you cannot utilise fully, and have to pay a 
handicap penalty. 

Quite a few examples where pilots with good potential suddenly get access to 
a good ship and are really disheartened when their overall placing 
decreases. Hopefully they hang in long enough to use the better glider 
properly and quickly move up the placings again. 

Terry 

 

> Hi all 
> 
> Good pilots will do well no matter what they fly. However for less 
> experienced pilots I feel that modern machinery has an edge. That is because 
> they are more forgiving. Older gliders can be made to perform well with 
> experience but aren't tolerant of sloppy flying. 
> 
> For example I flew a DG200 for several years and it is one of the busiest 
> flapped gliders I've ever flown. It has to be in just the right flap setting 
> to get close to it's best performance and there are from memory about 7 
> settings  -8, -4, 0, +4, +8, +10, +12 and the correct setting is dependent 
> upon cruise speed and thermal smoothness. It took me over a year to get the 
> hang of it. Once I did though I found it to be a great glider. A modern 
> flapped glider often has only 3 or 4 settings to cover the thermaling to 
> flat out speed range - much harder to be in the wrong gear. 
> 
> Apparently the LS8 almost tells you where the thermal is and will hang on in 
> even the roughest thermal - a Hornet is a great glider in a straight line 
> but it takes real skill to make it climb well. 
> 
> So to answer the question originally proposed "is a modern glider an 
> advantage?" I think for most people it is initially. If you can't get your 
> hands on a modern glider then get a lot of experience in one type/particular 
> aircraft. Or else be naturally talented like it seems James is! 
> 
> Philip Ritchie 
> 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Dave]

Hi all,

My apologies if I offended Nick,

I guess I was surprised that you thought it necessary to state something so
blatantly obvious.

Sarcasm, It's the Doug Piranha influence (-:  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piranha_Brothers


The original poster, Ash's concern to which I was responding, was asking if
the most heavily ballast-able glider would be an advantage at JG. Part of
the answer lies in pilot ability, part in glider performance, and part in
the pilots experience in type.

His post was specifically concerned with the odd fact that club class
handicaps *and* water ballast were used at JG, as far as I know there is no
comp other than JG run under those conditions, so it is a special case rules
wise and therefore also glider selection wise. A very good question in fact.

There is probably an ideal performance compromise glider to exploit the
rules, highest max weight, with lowest handicap compromise?
I would be interested in what others think would be the optimal glider to
fly to take advantage of those specific rules, actually addressing the
posters question and furthering the topic.

I agree that James has a great deal of ability, and used that to overcome
the relative disadvantage of an Astir, even against "superior" gliders,
which was my original point.

Anthony as usual summed up the general situation of comp handicapping very
well, but again this question related to optimization for a specific and
unique combination of rules and handicaps used only at JG.

P.S. My personal best height recently 8,[EMAIL PROTECTED] at Waikerie the last 2
Saturdays, 10,500ft in thermal wave for Robbo.


Regards

Dave



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2007 11:34 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

First of all, Dave, why the sarcasm? It appeared to me that you had 
overlooked something, and I pointed it out.

James would have won the comp on a hangar door - he literally had a 
disadvantage, but was good enough to overcome it. The disadvantage / 
advantage in choice of aircraft is not insignificant.

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[Aus-soaring] NARROMINE

[Mal Bruce]

Narromine went to 7300 on Saturday

Sunday 4500

I flew from Temora to Narromine on the Sunday in a Duo country side looking 
much greener.

Beryl is currently in Gilgandra with our latest purchase VH:GKC

  WELCOME TO THE NARROMINE AIR PAGEANT
  & EVOLUTION OF FLIGHT FESTIVAL 2007!
  On the wings of a successful event in 2005, we are excited to invite 
you to the Narromine Air Pageant and Evolution of Flight Festival from 
Friday 28 September until Sunday 30 September 2007 at the Narromine 
Aerodrome, Narromine.

  This year we have introduced the 'Evolution of Flight Festival' in 
conjunction with the Pageant to celebrate the distance we have flown in the 
aviation industry over the last 88 years in Narromine and regional Australia 
.

  Celebrate aviation by enjoying our Air Show and spectacular aerial 
demonstrations, experience joy flights, and walk commercial trade exhibits 
and view our many aircraft on display including the magnificent Wright 
Flyer - a replica of the first flying machine! We will also be bringing you 
the awesome Lockheed Super Constellation VH-EAG - Connie, a DC3, antique 
aircraft, warbirds, gliders, parachutes, joy flights, aerobatics. Not to be 
missed is the Connie take off complete with flames.

  The Festival is for everyone - we will also have lifestyle exhibits, 
live music, rides for the children, and food and drinks for the whole 
family.

  Be a part of our community and enjoy the region's spirit, community 
events, spectacular scenery and locally grown produce and of course, the 
Pageant!


Charter Flight Sydney - Narromine
A charter flight from Sydney is being organised. Anyone wishing 
to participate please email us to register your interest at 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] e-mail address is being protected from spam 
bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it .  Or call 6889 2601.




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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aircraft Plywood Needed

[Patching]

Sorry, How much ?
- Original Message - 
From: "Anthony Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 

Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Aircraft Plywood Needed


> Hi all
>
> One for the vintage crowd.
>
> AUGC is in need of some 5 ply 1.5 mm plywood (and probably
> some 5 ply at 1.8 mm too).  Australian suppliers seem to
> have only 3 ply available in 1.5mm and 2.0 mm.
>
> If anyone has a stash, or knows of someone who can supply
> this, please contact me off list.
>
> cheers
>
> Anthony
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>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.30/1029 - Release Date: 
> 24/09/2007 7:09 PM
>
> 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aircraft Plywood Needed

[Patching]

I'll have a look for you tomorrow and be in touch.
Ian P
- Original Message - 
From: "Anthony Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 

Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:04 AM
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Aircraft Plywood Needed


> Hi all
>
> One for the vintage crowd.
>
> AUGC is in need of some 5 ply 1.5 mm plywood (and probably
> some 5 ply at 1.8 mm too).  Australian suppliers seem to
> have only 3 ply available in 1.5mm and 2.0 mm.
>
> If anyone has a stash, or knows of someone who can supply
> this, please contact me off list.
>
> cheers
>
> Anthony
> ___
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> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.488 / Virus Database: 269.13.30/1029 - Release Date: 
> 24/09/2007 7:09 PM
>
> 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Phil]

Hi all

Good pilots will do well no matter what they fly. However for less 
experienced pilots I feel that modern machinery has an edge. That is because 
they are more forgiving. Older gliders can be made to perform well with 
experience but aren't tolerant of sloppy flying.

For example I flew a DG200 for several years and it is one of the busiest 
flapped gliders I've ever flown. It has to be in just the right flap setting 
to get close to it's best performance and there are from memory about 7 
settings  -8, -4, 0, +4, +8, +10, +12 and the correct setting is dependent 
upon cruise speed and thermal smoothness. It took me over a year to get the 
hang of it. Once I did though I found it to be a great glider. A modern 
flapped glider often has only 3 or 4 settings to cover the thermaling to 
flat out speed range - much harder to be in the wrong gear.

Apparently the LS8 almost tells you where the thermal is and will hang on in 
even the roughest thermal - a Hornet is a great glider in a straight line 
but it takes real skill to make it climb well.

So to answer the question originally proposed "is a modern glider an 
advantage?" I think for most people it is initially. If you can't get your 
hands on a modern glider then get a lot of experience in one type/particular 
aircraft. Or else be naturally talented like it seems James is!

Philip Ritchie

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Nicholas . Gilbert]

First of all, Dave, why the sarcasm? It appeared to me that you had 
overlooked something, and I pointed it out.

James would have won the comp on a hangar door - he literally had a 
disadvantage, but was good enough to overcome it. The disadvantage / 
advantage in choice of aircraft is not insignificant.

Regards,
- Nick Gilbert -
Lotus Notes & Web Developer
W :: (08) 8392 2147
F :: (08) 8276 5844
E :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Dave
to:
'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
25/09/2007 11:25 AM


Sent by:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please respond to "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 







Nick said,

"He wasn't asking if it was necessary to have the latest and greatest to 
win, he was asking if there was an advantage"

Oh gee was he really? 

I would have thought the winner using an older relatively low performance
glider would be most relevant to show that it was no great advantage to 
have
a higher performance glider, (as others who didn't beat him did) and that
the skill of the pilot probably counts for a lot more than the performance
of the glider.

Silly old me, I assumed when he said "advantage", he meant he would do
better results wise in the comp, at least that was how a competition
advantage was defined as I remember it. Is there some new definition of
advantage I am not aware of?

Todd said:

"James didn't win cause he was in an Astir. he won cause he is really 
good.
If he was in a better glider he would have won by a whole lot more"

Yep, that's exactly my point Todd, it was pilot skill, not the performance
of the glider that won that comp. 

Regards

Dave




---Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2007 9:57 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

He wasn't asking if it was necessary to have the latest and greatest to 
win, he was asking if there was an advantage.

Regards,
- Nick Gilbert -
Lotus Notes & Web Developer
W :: (08) 8392 2147
F :: (08) 8276 5844
E :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Dave
to:
'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
25/09/2007 09:53 AM


Sent by:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please respond to "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 








Hi all,

Errmmm Ash, would that be why the last JG was won by James Dutchke flying 
an
Astir CS77 with only 100kg max of ballast? Not what I would have thought 
as
a latest and greatest glider.(-:

Regards

Dave L
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashley
Boyle
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 11:41 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Hi

Not sure this has much to do with the rest of the conversation but here 
goes. Any thoughts??

Having a better glider at a comp like JG for instance would be a good 
advantage. I did some thinking and have worked out a theory its top 
secret but thats why im telling people. As far as i know the Joey glide 
comp uses club class handicaps which is fine but we are also able to 
carry water and i don't think there is any extra penalty for this. So if 
you take an older glider like your std cirrus and put a whole 60l in 
there then take your Discus2 or LS-8 and put 200l the better glider has 
way more of an advantage. So at a comp like JG you would be better off 
trying to get hold of the latest and greatest, am i right?


Ash




Mal Bruce wrote:
> Nigel said
> I seem to remember Michael Sommer doing pretty well in an SZD55 at 
Gulgong
-
> against LS8 and alike, was it 2004?
>
> 2004 did they have an 18 meter class ? http://www.mals.net/gulgong NO
> Lucky they had the international pilots to have enough numbers for the
comp.
>
> Nigel said
> The glider dosenth makeith the pilot, in other words having the latest 
and
> greatest is not the be all to end all, also remember Shane Mcaffrey 
doing
> pretty well in a hornet in standard class at a Kingaroy nats - not to 
long
> ago either. These pilots show raw ability.
>
> I remember doing well my 301 libelle .
>
> I have a new V2cx but I think I flew better when I used to borrow my 
mates
> LS7!
>
> And will you be flying your latest and greatest in 18 meter class at the 


> Nationals ?
>
> Mal
>
>
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

[Mark Newton]

Derek Ruddock wrote:

> It appears that announcing yourself as a climate change sceptic is akin
> to confessing to being a pedophile 
> The whole problem with the climate change issue is that people are
> seeing an easy way to make money out of it. Carbon trading? What a
> joke...

The carbon trading idea is a compromise borne out of the idea that
our system of economics doesn't value anything that doesn't have a
price attached to it.

Polluters will spew out noxious crap without limitation unless there's
financial backpressure to make them stop.

Carbon trading is that financial backpressure, wherein you can pollute
as much as you're prepared to pay for.

Once you have a system of trading items of value, you get profiteering
just like you do everywhere else in the economy.  So people trade carbon
futures, because the value assigned to them is every bit as realizable
as the value attached to currency futures or oil futures.

(and I suspect the big money will be made by hedging carbon futures
against oil futures, since they're so inextricably interlinked.  Time
will tell)

   - mark


I tried an internal modem,[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  but it hurt when I walked.  Mark Newton
- Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82356937 -
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Caleb White]

Absolutely, conditions of the individual day make the difference - especially 
when it comes to pushing wind as we well know with our machines Anthony!  

-Original Message-
From: "Anthony Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 

Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:56:45 +0930
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Hi all

I believe the advantage in competitions is almost always
with the latest and greatest.  The reasons are something
like this:

Gliders are notoriously difficult to handicap fairly and
competitions are almost always held during times where there
is likekly to be great conditions.  If handicaps are not set
to match the conditions on the day, it is guaranteed that
some gliders will be disadvantaged on handicap.  I know from
personal experience that the Bergfalke is extremely
competitive on light days with climb rates under 4 knots. 
With climb rates higher than 4 knots, the advantage is with
the other competitors.

Where the latest and greatest have a distinct edge is in the
ability to cruise over dead / rubbish areas to get to better
conditions on the far side.  Lower performance aircraft will
be forced to top up somewhere in the rubbish if it is too
wide.

Another intangible is thermal sample size.  A higher
performance aircraft will be able to pick the best thermal
out of (as an example) 4 thermals sampled, whereas a lower
performance aircraft will need to pick the best out of 3
thermals sampled. The odds are that the higher performance
glider will have a better chance at finding a stronger
thermal.
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Dave]

Nick said,

"He wasn't asking if it was necessary to have the latest and greatest to 
win, he was asking if there was an advantage"

Oh gee was he really? 

I would have thought the winner using an older relatively low performance
glider would be most relevant to show that it was no great advantage to have
a higher performance glider, (as others who didn't beat him did) and that
the skill of the pilot probably counts for a lot more than the performance
of the glider.

Silly old me, I assumed when he said "advantage", he meant he would do
better results wise in the comp, at least that was how a competition
advantage was defined as I remember it. Is there some new definition of
advantage I am not aware of?

Todd said:

"James didn't win cause he was in an Astir. he won cause he is really good.
If he was in a better glider he would have won by a whole lot more"

Yep, that's exactly my point Todd, it was pilot skill, not the performance
of the glider that won that comp. 

Regards

Dave




---Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2007 9:57 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

He wasn't asking if it was necessary to have the latest and greatest to 
win, he was asking if there was an advantage.

Regards,
- Nick Gilbert -
Lotus Notes & Web Developer
W :: (08) 8392 2147
F :: (08) 8276 5844
E :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Dave
to:
'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
25/09/2007 09:53 AM


Sent by:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please respond to "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 







Hi all,

Errmmm Ash, would that be why the last JG was won by James Dutchke flying 
an
Astir CS77 with only 100kg max of ballast? Not what I would have thought 
as
a latest and greatest glider.(-:

Regards

Dave L
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashley
Boyle
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 11:41 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Hi

Not sure this has much to do with the rest of the conversation but here 
goes. Any thoughts??

Having a better glider at a comp like JG for instance would be a good 
advantage. I did some thinking and have worked out a theory its top 
secret but thats why im telling people. As far as i know the Joey glide 
comp uses club class handicaps which is fine but we are also able to 
carry water and i don't think there is any extra penalty for this. So if 
you take an older glider like your std cirrus and put a whole 60l in 
there then take your Discus2 or LS-8 and put 200l the better glider has 
way more of an advantage. So at a comp like JG you would be better off 
trying to get hold of the latest and greatest, am i right?


Ash




Mal Bruce wrote:
> Nigel said
> I seem to remember Michael Sommer doing pretty well in an SZD55 at 
Gulgong
-
> against LS8 and alike, was it 2004?
>
> 2004 did they have an 18 meter class ? http://www.mals.net/gulgong NO
> Lucky they had the international pilots to have enough numbers for the
comp.
>
> Nigel said
> The glider dosenth makeith the pilot, in other words having the latest 
and
> greatest is not the be all to end all, also remember Shane Mcaffrey 
doing
> pretty well in a hornet in standard class at a Kingaroy nats - not to 
long
> ago either. These pilots show raw ability.
>
> I remember doing well my 301 libelle .
>
> I have a new V2cx but I think I flew better when I used to borrow my 
mates
> LS7!
>
> And will you be flying your latest and greatest in 18 meter class at the 

> Nationals ?
>
> Mal
>
>
> ___
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[Aus-soaring] Aircraft Plywood Needed

[Anthony Smith]

Hi all

One for the vintage crowd.

AUGC is in need of some 5 ply 1.5 mm plywood (and probably
some 5 ply at 1.8 mm too).  Australian suppliers seem to
have only 3 ply available in 1.5mm and 2.0 mm.

If anyone has a stash, or knows of someone who can supply
this, please contact me off list.

cheers

Anthony
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Anthony Smith]

Hi all

I believe the advantage in competitions is almost always
with the latest and greatest.  The reasons are something
like this:

Gliders are notoriously difficult to handicap fairly and
competitions are almost always held during times where there
is likekly to be great conditions.  If handicaps are not set
to match the conditions on the day, it is guaranteed that
some gliders will be disadvantaged on handicap.  I know from
personal experience that the Bergfalke is extremely
competitive on light days with climb rates under 4 knots. 
With climb rates higher than 4 knots, the advantage is with
the other competitors.

Where the latest and greatest have a distinct edge is in the
ability to cruise over dead / rubbish areas to get to better
conditions on the far side.  Lower performance aircraft will
be forced to top up somewhere in the rubbish if it is too
wide.

Another intangible is thermal sample size.  A higher
performance aircraft will be able to pick the best thermal
out of (as an example) 4 thermals sampled, whereas a lower
performance aircraft will need to pick the best out of 3
thermals sampled. The odds are that the higher performance
glider will have a better chance at finding a stronger
thermal.
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

[Derek Ruddock]

It appears that announcing yourself as a climate change sceptic is akin
to confessing to being a pedophile 

The whole problem with the climate change issue is that people are
seeing an easy way to make money out of it. Carbon trading? What a
joke...
 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:aus-soaring-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2007 9:20 AM
> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Mike, re climate change, give me a break, we have all heard the
reality
> deniers point of view but the bottom line is 99%+ of the worlds
climate
> scientists all agree that climate change is occurring.
> 
> The evidence provided by the unprecedented opening of a North West
passage
> due to ice melting on a large scale in the arctic is undeniable, along
with
> many increase in the melting of ice.
> 
> That silly "Great global warming swindle" documentary that most
deniers rely
> on has been so completely and thoroughly discredited that it's a
running
> joke.
> 
> I have a web site for the flat earth society, where they make lots of
ill
> informed and distracting claims too but that doesn't make them right
you
> know. For every 1 scientist who denies there are 100 who believe-do
the
> maths, and face reality. Try driving around the SA country at the
moment if
> you need more evidence.
> 
> Even our despicable federal government which is almost unparalleled at
> reality denial and outright lying (and/or incompetence) in this area
and
> most other areas, believes now.
> 
> Of course you and the fringe loonies could be right and the *real*
experts
> all wrong.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Dave L
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
> Borgelt
> Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2007 5:56 AM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine
> 
> At 09:53 PM 24/09/2007, you wrote:
> >Ah, climate change - the soaring pilot's friend!
> >
> >Any X/C in the midst of that height?
> >
> >MP.
> >
> 
> Ah! Climate change! Is there anything it it isn't responsible for?
> 
> Better figure out if there is any first.
> 
> See www.climateaudit.org (breakers of the infamous "hockey stick")
> 
> Fairly technical.
> 
> There are links there to other sites.
> 
> Yes the climate changes. Lesson one at meteorology school was that 30
> year averages were taken at weather stations to define the climate
> because it was well known that it changed on time scales longer than
> that so any longer averages weren't meaningful. Nobody was blaming
CO2.
> 
> A few facts:
> 
> Of the CO2 going in to atmosphere each year the human race is
> responsible for under 4%.
> 
> There's currently around 380 ppmv of CO2. It is increasing around 0.5
> to 1% of that per year.(It varies from year to year and seasonally -
> hint - fossil fuel burning doesn't). Obviously there are lots of CO2
sinks.
> 
> The temperature effect of increased CO2 is small - and as the effect
> on temperature is logarithmic most of the temperature effect has
> already occurred.
> 
> The catatrophic warming predictions depend on increased temperature
> causing increased water vapour which further increases the
> temperature as H2O is also a greenhouse gas(not as good as CO2 but
> there's usually lots more of it -  0 to 4% of the atmosphere).
> Positive feedback. Any engineer will tell you that systems with
> positive feedback are unstable and tend not to stay in one state for
> long, usually crashing between extremes.
> 
> I'll leave it as an exercise for you to find the evidence for this
> positive feedback. I mean *evidence* not computer models. If you can
> there's US$100,000 on offer at www.junkscience.com
> 
> Is there human caused climate change? Almost certainly. Land use
> changes are a very likely contributor. Changes albedo and lost of
> other things when you remove vegetation and replace with bitumin,
> concrete and buildings or clear trees for farmland. I got stuck with
> explaining this to a bunch of environmental science students in a
> lecture in 1977.
> 
> The human race doesn't know nearly enough about planetary systems but
> we have to be careful to use real science not political hysteria
> promoted by scammers (Al Gore's in town BTW)
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
> phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
> fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
> cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
>Int'l + 61 429 355784
> email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
> ___
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> Aus-soaring@lis

Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Todd Sandercock]

James didn't win cause he was in an Astir. he won cause he is really good. If 
he was in a better glider he would have won by a whole lot more

- Original Message 
From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. 

Sent: Tuesday, 25 September, 2007 8:38:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Hi all,

Errmmm Ash, would that be why the last JG was won by James Dutchke flying an
Astir CS77 with only 100kg max of ballast? Not what I would have thought as
a latest and greatest glider.(-:

Regards

Dave L
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashley
Boyle
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 11:41 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Hi

Not sure this has much to do with the rest of the conversation but here 
goes. Any thoughts??

Having a better glider at a comp like JG for instance would be a good 
advantage. I did some thinking and have worked out a theory its top 
secret but thats why im telling people. As far as i know the Joey glide 
comp uses club class handicaps which is fine but we are also able to 
carry water and i don't think there is any extra penalty for this. So if 
you take an older glider like your std cirrus and put a whole 60l in 
there then take your Discus2 or LS-8 and put 200l the better glider has 
way more of an advantage. So at a comp like JG you would be better off 
trying to get hold of the latest and greatest, am i right?


Ash




Mal Bruce wrote:
> Nigel said
> I seem to remember Michael Sommer doing pretty well in an SZD55 at Gulgong
-
> against LS8 and alike, was it 2004?
>
> 2004 did they have an 18 meter class ? http://www.mals.net/gulgong NO
> Lucky they had the international pilots to have enough numbers for the
comp.
>
> Nigel said
> The glider dosenth makeith the pilot, in other words having the latest and
> greatest is not the be all to end all, also remember Shane Mcaffrey doing
> pretty well in a hornet in standard class at a Kingaroy nats - not to long
> ago either. These pilots show raw ability.
>
> I remember doing well my 301 libelle .
>
> I have a new V2cx but I think I flew better when I used to borrow my mates
> LS7!
>
> And will you be flying your latest and greatest in 18 meter class at the 
> Nationals ?
>
> Mal
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>   
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Nicholas . Gilbert]

He wasn't asking if it was necessary to have the latest and greatest to 
win, he was asking if there was an advantage.

Regards,
- Nick Gilbert -
Lotus Notes & Web Developer
W :: (08) 8392 2147
F :: (08) 8276 5844
E :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Dave
to:
'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
25/09/2007 09:53 AM


Sent by:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please respond to "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 







Hi all,

Errmmm Ash, would that be why the last JG was won by James Dutchke flying 
an
Astir CS77 with only 100kg max of ballast? Not what I would have thought 
as
a latest and greatest glider.(-:

Regards

Dave L
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashley
Boyle
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 11:41 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Hi

Not sure this has much to do with the rest of the conversation but here 
goes. Any thoughts??

Having a better glider at a comp like JG for instance would be a good 
advantage. I did some thinking and have worked out a theory its top 
secret but thats why im telling people. As far as i know the Joey glide 
comp uses club class handicaps which is fine but we are also able to 
carry water and i don't think there is any extra penalty for this. So if 
you take an older glider like your std cirrus and put a whole 60l in 
there then take your Discus2 or LS-8 and put 200l the better glider has 
way more of an advantage. So at a comp like JG you would be better off 
trying to get hold of the latest and greatest, am i right?


Ash




Mal Bruce wrote:
> Nigel said
> I seem to remember Michael Sommer doing pretty well in an SZD55 at 
Gulgong
-
> against LS8 and alike, was it 2004?
>
> 2004 did they have an 18 meter class ? http://www.mals.net/gulgong NO
> Lucky they had the international pilots to have enough numbers for the
comp.
>
> Nigel said
> The glider dosenth makeith the pilot, in other words having the latest 
and
> greatest is not the be all to end all, also remember Shane Mcaffrey 
doing
> pretty well in a hornet in standard class at a Kingaroy nats - not to 
long
> ago either. These pilots show raw ability.
>
> I remember doing well my 301 libelle .
>
> I have a new V2cx but I think I flew better when I used to borrow my 
mates
> LS7!
>
> And will you be flying your latest and greatest in 18 meter class at the 

> Nationals ?
>
> Mal
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> 
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

[Terry Neumann]

Mitchell Preston wrote:

> Ah, climate change - the soaring pilot's friend!
>
Snip 

Except that if one were a glider pilot in any of the areas in Africa 
where it's been raining solidly for weeks and people are drowning in the 
floods - presumably also because of climate change - one might have a 
slightly different perspective on the consequences and possible 
'benefits' .

I still reckon we had better weather for gliding in the late 60's and 
mid 70's, but nostalgia is like that sometimes :-)

Regards
Terry
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aerodynamics research

[Mike Borgelt]

At 09:29 AM 25/09/2007, you wrote:
>Is there any news on when Dick might have one flying?
>
>Looks like the Sinha detubulator is also undergoing some improvements but no
>mass production as yet
>
>Nigel
>

Nope, that was the only thing that I could find. I didn't try very hard though.

Mike
Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
   Int'l + 61 429 355784
email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aerodynamics research

[nandrews]

Is there any news on when Dick might have one flying?

Looks like the Sinha detubulator is also undergoing some improvements but no
mass production as yet

Nigel


This is an interesting paper. Found while searching for information 
on Dick Butler's Concordia project

http://www.frotor.fs.cvut.cz/doc/37.pdf

Check out the aspect ratio of Concordia project.

Mike
Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
   Int'l + 61 429 355784
email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

[Dave]

Hi all,

Mike, re climate change, give me a break, we have all heard the reality
deniers point of view but the bottom line is 99%+ of the worlds climate
scientists all agree that climate change is occurring.

The evidence provided by the unprecedented opening of a North West passage
due to ice melting on a large scale in the arctic is undeniable, along with
many increase in the melting of ice. 

That silly "Great global warming swindle" documentary that most deniers rely
on has been so completely and thoroughly discredited that it's a running
joke.

I have a web site for the flat earth society, where they make lots of ill
informed and distracting claims too but that doesn't make them right you
know. For every 1 scientist who denies there are 100 who believe-do the
maths, and face reality. Try driving around the SA country at the moment if
you need more evidence.

Even our despicable federal government which is almost unparalleled at
reality denial and outright lying (and/or incompetence) in this area and
most other areas, believes now. 

Of course you and the fringe loonies could be right and the *real* experts
all wrong.

Regards

Dave L

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike
Borgelt
Sent: Tuesday, 25 September 2007 5:56 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

At 09:53 PM 24/09/2007, you wrote:
>Ah, climate change - the soaring pilot's friend!
>
>Any X/C in the midst of that height?
>
>MP.
>

Ah! Climate change! Is there anything it it isn't responsible for?

Better figure out if there is any first.

See www.climateaudit.org (breakers of the infamous "hockey stick")

Fairly technical.

There are links there to other sites.

Yes the climate changes. Lesson one at meteorology school was that 30 
year averages were taken at weather stations to define the climate 
because it was well known that it changed on time scales longer than 
that so any longer averages weren't meaningful. Nobody was blaming CO2.

A few facts:

Of the CO2 going in to atmosphere each year the human race is 
responsible for under 4%.

There's currently around 380 ppmv of CO2. It is increasing around 0.5 
to 1% of that per year.(It varies from year to year and seasonally - 
hint - fossil fuel burning doesn't). Obviously there are lots of CO2 sinks.

The temperature effect of increased CO2 is small - and as the effect 
on temperature is logarithmic most of the temperature effect has 
already occurred.

The catatrophic warming predictions depend on increased temperature 
causing increased water vapour which further increases the 
temperature as H2O is also a greenhouse gas(not as good as CO2 but 
there's usually lots more of it -  0 to 4% of the atmosphere). 
Positive feedback. Any engineer will tell you that systems with 
positive feedback are unstable and tend not to stay in one state for 
long, usually crashing between extremes.

I'll leave it as an exercise for you to find the evidence for this 
positive feedback. I mean *evidence* not computer models. If you can 
there's US$100,000 on offer at www.junkscience.com

Is there human caused climate change? Almost certainly. Land use 
changes are a very likely contributor. Changes albedo and lost of 
other things when you remove vegetation and replace with bitumin, 
concrete and buildings or clear trees for farmland. I got stuck with 
explaining this to a bunch of environmental science students in a 
lecture in 1977.

The human race doesn't know nearly enough about planetary systems but 
we have to be careful to use real science not political hysteria 
promoted by scammers (Al Gore's in town BTW)

Mike





Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
   Int'l + 61 429 355784
email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Dave]

Hi all,

Errmmm Ash, would that be why the last JG was won by James Dutchke flying an
Astir CS77 with only 100kg max of ballast? Not what I would have thought as
a latest and greatest glider.(-:

Regards

Dave L
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ashley
Boyle
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 11:41 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Hi

Not sure this has much to do with the rest of the conversation but here 
goes. Any thoughts??

Having a better glider at a comp like JG for instance would be a good 
advantage. I did some thinking and have worked out a theory its top 
secret but thats why im telling people. As far as i know the Joey glide 
comp uses club class handicaps which is fine but we are also able to 
carry water and i don't think there is any extra penalty for this. So if 
you take an older glider like your std cirrus and put a whole 60l in 
there then take your Discus2 or LS-8 and put 200l the better glider has 
way more of an advantage. So at a comp like JG you would be better off 
trying to get hold of the latest and greatest, am i right?


Ash




Mal Bruce wrote:
> Nigel said
> I seem to remember Michael Sommer doing pretty well in an SZD55 at Gulgong
-
> against LS8 and alike, was it 2004?
>
> 2004 did they have an 18 meter class ? http://www.mals.net/gulgong NO
> Lucky they had the international pilots to have enough numbers for the
comp.
>
> Nigel said
> The glider dosenth makeith the pilot, in other words having the latest and
> greatest is not the be all to end all, also remember Shane Mcaffrey doing
> pretty well in a hornet in standard class at a Kingaroy nats - not to long
> ago either. These pilots show raw ability.
>
> I remember doing well my 301 libelle .
>
> I have a new V2cx but I think I flew better when I used to borrow my mates
> LS7!
>
> And will you be flying your latest and greatest in 18 meter class at the 
> Nationals ?
>
> Mal
>
>
> ___
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>   
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Future Aviation Pty. Ltd.]

Hi Mal

I checked with the factory last night and was told that 
the ASG 29 will be shipped back from Omarama (in a purpose 
built container) together with all other Grand Prix gliders. 
There is very little chance that I get my hands on it for 
the Australian Nationals. 

That's the bad news. The good news is that a brand new
ASW 28-18 is arriving in Adelaide next week. Please 
contact me off line for the owner's contact details. 

Kind regards
 
Bernard Eckey
FUTURE AVIATION PTY. LTD.
10 Antigua Grove
West Lakes 5021
Adelaide / South Australia
Ph/Fax +61 8 8449 2871
mobile 0412 981204
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mal
Bruce
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 1:46 PM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

I am sure there are a few more Australians that would also like to fly
in 
our Nationals.

After all it is not the Internationals, definitely case of the haves and

have nots.

Should a ASG29 or ASW 28 turn up for this period I would join the haves
for 
a limited time and be ever grateful!

Would it make it in time Bernard from NZ

Regards Mal

www.mals.net


>   1. Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals (Tim Shirley)
>   2. Re: Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals (Jeff Woodward)
 Hi All,
>
>
>
> There are a number of foreign pilots seeking gliders to hire for the
> Multiclass Nationals at Temora, 14th-25th January.
>
>
>
> If anyone on the list has, or knows of, gliders that may be available,
> please contact Daryl Connell at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Tim

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Aerodynamics research

[Mike Borgelt]

This is an interesting paper. Found while searching for information 
on Dick Butler's Concordia project

http://www.frotor.fs.cvut.cz/doc/37.pdf

Check out the aspect ratio of Concordia project.

Mike
Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
   Int'l + 61 429 355784
email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[tnjgilbert]

Now that's cruel...


- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 

Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals


> Do you think it's possible that the stretch marks in CK act like the
> dimples on a golf ball?
>
> Regards,
> - Nick Gilbert -
> Lotus Notes & Web Developer
> W :: (08) 8392 2147
> F :: (08) 8276 5844
> E :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals
>
> Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON
> to:
> 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> 24/09/2007 04:26 PM
>
>
> Sent by:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Please respond to "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I like seeing Tom knock off all the big $ machines in his trusty Libelle
> :)
>
>
> SDF
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 3:21 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring
> in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals
>
> Good point Nigel.
>
> Another point is that there is no god given entitlement for people to be
> able to compete in the latest & greatest...
>
> Hire a club astir from somewhere and fly the Club Class Nationals - It's
> no less competitive.
>
>
> Regards,
> - Nick Gilbert -
> Lotus Notes & Web Developer
> W :: (08) 8392 2147
> F :: (08) 8276 5844
> E :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals
>
> nandrews
> to:
> 'Mal Bruce', 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> 24/09/2007 02:47 PM
>
>
> Sent by:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Please respond to
> "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I seem to remember Michael Sommer doing pretty well in an SZD55 at Gulgong
>
> -
> against LS8 and alike, was it 2004?
>
> The glider dosenth makeith the pilot, in other words having the latest and
> greatest is not the be all to end all, also remember Shane Mcaffrey doing
> pretty well in a hornet in standard class at a Kingaroy nats - not to long
> ago either. These pilots show raw ability.
>
> I have a new V2cx but I think I flew better when I used to borrow my mates
> LS7!
>
> Nigel
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mal Bruce
> Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 2:16 PM
> To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals
>
> I am sure there are a few more Australians that would also like to fly in
> our Nationals.
>
> After all it is not the Internationals, definitely case of the haves and
> have nots.
>
> Should a ASG29 or ASW 28 turn up for this period I would join the haves
> for
> a limited time and be ever grateful!
>
> Would it make it in time Bernard from NZ
>
> Regards Mal
>
> www.mals.net
>
>
>>   1. Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals (Tim Shirley)
>>   2. Re: Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals (Jeff Woodward)
> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> There are a number of foreign pilots seeking gliders to hire for the
>> Multiclass Nationals at Temora, 14th-25th January.
>>
>>
>>
>> If anyone on the list has, or knows of, gliders that may be available,
>> please contact Daryl Connell at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>>
>>
>> Tim
>
> ___
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Nicholas . Gilbert]

Do you think it's possible that the stretch marks in CK act like the 
dimples on a golf ball?

Regards,
- Nick Gilbert -
Lotus Notes & Web Developer
W :: (08) 8392 2147
F :: (08) 8276 5844
E :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Stuart & Kerri FERGUSON
to:
'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
24/09/2007 04:26 PM


Sent by:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please respond to "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 







I like seeing Tom knock off all the big $ machines in his trusty Libelle 
:)


SDF

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 3:21 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring
in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Good point Nigel.

Another point is that there is no god given entitlement for people to be 
able to compete in the latest & greatest... 

Hire a club astir from somewhere and fly the Club Class Nationals - It's 
no less competitive.


Regards,
- Nick Gilbert -
Lotus Notes & Web Developer
W :: (08) 8392 2147
F :: (08) 8276 5844
E :: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

nandrews
to:
'Mal Bruce', 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' 
24/09/2007 02:47 PM


Sent by:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Please respond to [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Please respond to 
"Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 







I seem to remember Michael Sommer doing pretty well in an SZD55 at Gulgong 

-
against LS8 and alike, was it 2004?

The glider dosenth makeith the pilot, in other words having the latest and
greatest is not the be all to end all, also remember Shane Mcaffrey doing
pretty well in a hornet in standard class at a Kingaroy nats - not to long
ago either. These pilots show raw ability.

I have a new V2cx but I think I flew better when I used to borrow my mates
LS7!

Nigel




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mal Bruce
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 2:16 PM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

I am sure there are a few more Australians that would also like to fly in 
our Nationals.

After all it is not the Internationals, definitely case of the haves and 
have nots.

Should a ASG29 or ASW 28 turn up for this period I would join the haves 
for 
a limited time and be ever grateful!

Would it make it in time Bernard from NZ

Regards Mal

www.mals.net


>   1. Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals (Tim Shirley)
>   2. Re: Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals (Jeff Woodward)
 Hi All,
>
>
>
> There are a number of foreign pilots seeking gliders to hire for the
> Multiclass Nationals at Temora, 14th-25th January.
>
>
>
> If anyone on the list has, or knows of, gliders that may be available,
> please contact Daryl Connell at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Tim

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Caleb White]

It's not all about the wing loading (although generally it helps). Having a 
light glider with feel can count for alot when things are marginal (or when 
things are good). I.e. spend less time turning if you can feel you way along 
the best path to get to the next thermal.

-Original Message-
From: Ashley Boyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." 

Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 22:11:24 +0800
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

Hi

Not sure this has much to do with the rest of the conversation but here 
goes. Any thoughts??

Having a better glider at a comp like JG for instance would be a good 
advantage. I did some thinking and have worked out a theory its top 
secret but thats why im telling people. As far as i know the Joey glide 
comp uses club class handicaps which is fine but we are also able to 
carry water and i don't think there is any extra penalty for this. So if 
you take an older glider like your std cirrus and put a whole 60l in 
there then take your Discus2 or LS-8 and put 200l the better glider has 
way more of an advantage. So at a comp like JG you would be better off 
trying to get hold of the latest and greatest, am i right?


Ash




Mal Bruce wrote:
> Nigel said
> I seem to remember Michael Sommer doing pretty well in an SZD55 at Gulgong -
> against LS8 and alike, was it 2004?
>
> 2004 did they have an 18 meter class ? http://www.mals.net/gulgong NO
> Lucky they had the international pilots to have enough numbers for the comp.
>
> Nigel said
> The glider dosenth makeith the pilot, in other words having the latest and
> greatest is not the be all to end all, also remember Shane Mcaffrey doing
> pretty well in a hornet in standard class at a Kingaroy nats - not to long
> ago either. These pilots show raw ability.
>
> I remember doing well my 301 libelle .
>
> I have a new V2cx but I think I flew better when I used to borrow my mates
> LS7!
>
> And will you be flying your latest and greatest in 18 meter class at the 
> Nationals ?
>
> Mal
>
>
> ___
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> To check or change subscription details, visit:
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>   
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[nandrews]

Would love to make the nationals this year as I like Temora but run out of
leave ( Too many comps this year), maybe next time.

Nigel


And will you be flying your latest and greatest in 18 meter class at the 
Nationals ?

Mal


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Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine-QLD state comps

[nandrews]

Nice to see an early start to the season.

 

Well those intending to come to the State comps and nationals should be in
for some good weather, Saturday was a 9,000ft day and Sunday I believe was
higher. The downs has dried up nicely and we are getting our transition
weather which brings out those western troughs - some of our best weather!
One leg on Saturday averaged 145 kph!

 

Roll on the next few weeks

 

Nigel

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That height started between 3 and 4:00pm, prior to that it was about 6000ft
midday

 

Keith Dixon and Anne Elliott

(GFA Sub-editor Soaring Australia magazine)

PO Box 189

Narromine NSW 2821 Australia

Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.ourafricansafari.com.au

www.vintageglidersaustralia.org.au

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Trone
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

 

What time did it start and finish.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne
Elliott
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 6:20 PM
To: Aus-soaring
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

 

Eleven thousand feet at Nrm today!

 

Keith Dixon and Anne Elliott

(GFA Sub-editor Soaring Australia magazine)

PO Box 189

Narromine NSW 2821 Australia

Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.ourafricansafari.com.au

www.vintageglidersaustralia.org.au

 

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

[Mike Borgelt]

At 09:53 PM 24/09/2007, you wrote:
>Ah, climate change - the soaring pilot's friend!
>
>Any X/C in the midst of that height?
>
>MP.
>

Ah! Climate change! Is there anything it it isn't responsible for?

Better figure out if there is any first.

See www.climateaudit.org (breakers of the infamous "hockey stick")

Fairly technical.

There are links there to other sites.

Yes the climate changes. Lesson one at meteorology school was that 30 
year averages were taken at weather stations to define the climate 
because it was well known that it changed on time scales longer than 
that so any longer averages weren't meaningful. Nobody was blaming CO2.

A few facts:

Of the CO2 going in to atmosphere each year the human race is 
responsible for under 4%.

There's currently around 380 ppmv of CO2. It is increasing around 0.5 
to 1% of that per year.(It varies from year to year and seasonally - 
hint - fossil fuel burning doesn't). Obviously there are lots of CO2 sinks.

The temperature effect of increased CO2 is small - and as the effect 
on temperature is logarithmic most of the temperature effect has 
already occurred.

The catatrophic warming predictions depend on increased temperature 
causing increased water vapour which further increases the 
temperature as H2O is also a greenhouse gas(not as good as CO2 but 
there's usually lots more of it -  0 to 4% of the atmosphere). 
Positive feedback. Any engineer will tell you that systems with 
positive feedback are unstable and tend not to stay in one state for 
long, usually crashing between extremes.

I'll leave it as an exercise for you to find the evidence for this 
positive feedback. I mean *evidence* not computer models. If you can 
there's US$100,000 on offer at www.junkscience.com

Is there human caused climate change? Almost certainly. Land use 
changes are a very likely contributor. Changes albedo and lost of 
other things when you remove vegetation and replace with bitumin, 
concrete and buildings or clear trees for farmland. I got stuck with 
explaining this to a bunch of environmental science students in a 
lecture in 1977.

The human race doesn't know nearly enough about planetary systems but 
we have to be careful to use real science not political hysteria 
promoted by scammers (Al Gore's in town BTW)

Mike





Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments
phone Int'l + 61 746 355784
fax   Int'l + 61 746 358796
cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784
   Int'l + 61 429 355784
email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
website: www.borgeltinstruments.com
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Ashley Boyle]

Hi

Not sure this has much to do with the rest of the conversation but here 
goes. Any thoughts??

Having a better glider at a comp like JG for instance would be a good 
advantage. I did some thinking and have worked out a theory its top 
secret but thats why im telling people. As far as i know the Joey glide 
comp uses club class handicaps which is fine but we are also able to 
carry water and i don't think there is any extra penalty for this. So if 
you take an older glider like your std cirrus and put a whole 60l in 
there then take your Discus2 or LS-8 and put 200l the better glider has 
way more of an advantage. So at a comp like JG you would be better off 
trying to get hold of the latest and greatest, am i right?


Ash




Mal Bruce wrote:
> Nigel said
> I seem to remember Michael Sommer doing pretty well in an SZD55 at Gulgong -
> against LS8 and alike, was it 2004?
>
> 2004 did they have an 18 meter class ? http://www.mals.net/gulgong NO
> Lucky they had the international pilots to have enough numbers for the comp.
>
> Nigel said
> The glider dosenth makeith the pilot, in other words having the latest and
> greatest is not the be all to end all, also remember Shane Mcaffrey doing
> pretty well in a hornet in standard class at a Kingaroy nats - not to long
> ago either. These pilots show raw ability.
>
> I remember doing well my 301 libelle .
>
> I have a new V2cx but I think I flew better when I used to borrow my mates
> LS7!
>
> And will you be flying your latest and greatest in 18 meter class at the 
> Nationals ?
>
> Mal
>
>
> ___
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> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
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>   
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[Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Mal Bruce]

Nigel said
I seem to remember Michael Sommer doing pretty well in an SZD55 at Gulgong -
against LS8 and alike, was it 2004?

2004 did they have an 18 meter class ? http://www.mals.net/gulgong NO
Lucky they had the international pilots to have enough numbers for the comp.

Nigel said
The glider dosenth makeith the pilot, in other words having the latest and
greatest is not the be all to end all, also remember Shane Mcaffrey doing
pretty well in a hornet in standard class at a Kingaroy nats - not to long
ago either. These pilots show raw ability.

I remember doing well my 301 libelle .

I have a new V2cx but I think I flew better when I used to borrow my mates
LS7!

And will you be flying your latest and greatest in 18 meter class at the 
Nationals ?

Mal


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Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

[Mitchell Preston]

Ah, climate change - the soaring pilot's friend!

Any X/C in the midst of that height?

MP.


On 24/09/2007, at 6:20 PM, Anne Elliott wrote:


Eleven thousand feet at Nrm today!



Keith Dixon and Anne Elliott

(GFA Sub-editor Soaring Australia magazine)

PO Box 189

Narromine NSW 2821 Australia

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.ourafricansafari.com.au

www.vintageglidersaustralia.org.au



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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[Gary]

Para 2 - very true!
Para 3 - Perceptions, perceptions!! Doest age worry yea? Re the old days,
nice to be able to borrow a LS7 but!
See you in a few days.
Cheers,
Gary


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of nandrews
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 3:04 PM
To: 'Mal Bruce'; 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

I seem to remember Michael Sommer doing pretty well in an SZD55 at Gulgong -
against LS8 and alike, was it 2004?

The glider dosenth makeith the pilot, in other words having the latest and
greatest is not the be all to end all, also remember Shane Mcaffrey doing
pretty well in a hornet in standard class at a Kingaroy nats - not to long
ago either. These pilots show raw ability.

I have a new V2cx but I think I flew better when I used to borrow my mates
LS7!

Nigel




-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mal Bruce
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 2:16 PM
To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

I am sure there are a few more Australians that would also like to fly in 
our Nationals.

After all it is not the Internationals, definitely case of the haves and 
have nots.

Should a ASG29 or ASW 28 turn up for this period I would join the haves for 
a limited time and be ever grateful!

Would it make it in time Bernard from NZ

Regards Mal

www.mals.net


>   1. Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals (Tim Shirley)
>   2. Re: Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals (Jeff Woodward)
 Hi All,
>
>
>
> There are a number of foreign pilots seeking gliders to hire for the
> Multiclass Nationals at Temora, 14th-25th January.
>
>
>
> If anyone on the list has, or knows of, gliders that may be available,
> please contact Daryl Connell at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Tim

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1:53 PM

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders wanted for MultiClass Nationals

[granthudson1]

Hi Jeff,

just wondering if you could give me Don & Dave's email addresses as I have a 
question for them regarding the trim system on the Pik20D. 

I've just started a 30 yearly on my Pik in dad's driveway and the RTO/A Nigel 
Baker has questioned a (looks like) home made add on trimming system that was 
in place when we bought the aircraft and we'd like to examine the idea of 
returning to th original system...whatever that may be.

Thanks again for the other weekend and I hope the annual dinner and trophy 
night for the BSS went well.

Thanks and regards,

Grant.  
Grant Hudson

(08) 8367 5738
0407 605 128

 Jeff Woodward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: 
> Hello TimI hope you are keeping well.It has been a fair while since 
> Waikerie!!
> I am running the W.A. state comps this 
> year,where we are hoping for a fleet of 30 entrants.W.A.comps have been 
> hindered over the years by having just 4 or 5 gliders in all of the different 
> classes.This year we have introduced the W.A. CHAMPIONSHIP CLASS for all 
> entrants.It will comprise of the club class handicaps but water is optional 
> with an additional handicap factor based upon the reference weight of the 
> glider on the start grid.Each pilot declares their amount of water ballast on 
> the grid each day before take off.Random weighing will be done each day.AAT 
> or run tasking will be used.We feel that this will make it as fair as 
> possible to run a big number of gliders together and encourage all types of 
> gliders / pilots into one comp of a smaller state. I would value your opinion 
> of our trial idea.
>   Can you provide me with the club class 
> handicaps for DG1000s ; DG505 ;  and PW6 if possible.
>Also, the new compulsory rule for competitor's 
> licenses may catch a few of us here in W.A. out. (We have a few isolated 
> entrants). Is it possible to have our comp exempted  for one last time.I have 
> only just found out about it.and I would have to get memos out pronto.A 
> few of our entrants are away etc.
>   Cheers, Jeff.
> Tim Shirley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  
>
>   Hi All,
>
>   There are a number of foreign pilots seeking gliders to hire for the 
> Multiclass Nationals at Temora, 14th-25th January.
>
>   If anyone on the list has, or knows of, gliders that may be available, 
> please contact Daryl Connell at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>   Cheers
>
>   Tim
> 
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>
> -
> Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV.  Watch previews, get listings, 
> and more!
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

[Steve Trone]

Thanks, It sounds like a great day.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne
Elliott
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 6:57 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

 

That height started between 3 and 4:00pm, prior to that it was about 6000ft
midday

 

Keith Dixon and Anne Elliott

(GFA Sub-editor Soaring Australia magazine)

PO Box 189

Narromine NSW 2821 Australia

Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.ourafricansafari.com.au

www.vintageglidersaustralia.org.au

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Trone
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

 

What time did it start and finish.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne
Elliott
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 6:20 PM
To: Aus-soaring
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

 

Eleven thousand feet at Nrm today!

 

Keith Dixon and Anne Elliott

(GFA Sub-editor Soaring Australia magazine)

PO Box 189

Narromine NSW 2821 Australia

Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.ourafricansafari.com.au

www.vintageglidersaustralia.org.au

 

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

[Anne Elliott]

That height started between 3 and 4:00pm, prior to that it was about 6000ft
midday

 

Keith Dixon and Anne Elliott

(GFA Sub-editor Soaring Australia magazine)

PO Box 189

Narromine NSW 2821 Australia

Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.ourafricansafari.com.au

www.vintageglidersaustralia.org.au

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Trone
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:39 PM
To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

 

What time did it start and finish.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne
Elliott
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 6:20 PM
To: Aus-soaring
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

 

Eleven thousand feet at Nrm today!

 

Keith Dixon and Anne Elliott

(GFA Sub-editor Soaring Australia magazine)

PO Box 189

Narromine NSW 2821 Australia

Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.ourafricansafari.com.au

www.vintageglidersaustralia.org.au

 

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Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

[Patching]

Well done
Ian P
  - Original Message - 
  From: Anne Elliott 
  To: Aus-soaring 
  Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 6:20 PM
  Subject: [Aus-soaring] Narromine


  Eleven thousand feet at Nrm today!

   

  Keith Dixon and Anne Elliott

  (GFA Sub-editor Soaring Australia magazine)

  PO Box 189

  Narromine NSW 2821 Australia

  Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Web: www.ourafricansafari.com.au

  www.vintageglidersaustralia.org.au

   



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Re: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

[Steve Trone]

What time did it start and finish.

 

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Anne
Elliott
Sent: Monday, 24 September 2007 6:20 PM
To: Aus-soaring
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Narromine

 

Eleven thousand feet at Nrm today!

 

Keith Dixon and Anne Elliott

(GFA Sub-editor Soaring Australia magazine)

PO Box 189

Narromine NSW 2821 Australia

Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.ourafricansafari.com.au

www.vintageglidersaustralia.org.au

 

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[Aus-soaring] Narromine

[Anne Elliott]

Eleven thousand feet at Nrm today!

 

Keith Dixon and Anne Elliott

(GFA Sub-editor Soaring Australia magazine)

PO Box 189

Narromine NSW 2821 Australia

Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Web: www.ourafricansafari.com.au

www.vintageglidersaustralia.org.au

 

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