[Aus-soaring] Morning Glory nearer home.
http://www.northernstar.com.au/news/what-was-weird-cloud-rolled-our-coast/2800365/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Good press
http://www.gympietimes.com.au/news/weather-has-glider-regatta-flying-high/2785096/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Gympie GC press
http://www.gympietimes.com.au/news/gliding-club-soars-to-new-heights-at-regatta/2779943/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] John Eddy
Hi John, Can I ring you. Need to discuss old Cirrus’s. Yours and the one I am having problems with are a few serial numbers apart. Cheers Chris From: John Eddy Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 5:52 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] John Eddy john...@bigpond.com Regards, John On 1 Sep 2015, at 17:12, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Does anybody have an email address for John Eddy? Please reply off list. Chris McDonnell ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] John Eddy
Does anybody have an email address for John Eddy? Please reply off list. Chris McDonnell___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] German Nationals
Your service as an agent in Australia is second to none regardless of any other matter Bernard. -Original Message- From: go_soaring Sent: Monday, August 24, 2015 8:35 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] German Nationals I love the friendly banter Bernard, congrats to Schleicher in this round. Though I'd guess the Discus probably outdid the G29 in the results/standings in the years gone by? I notice many ASG29's & V2's going up for sale, some notable pilots. Getting ready for the new Ventus perhaps? :) On 24 Aug 2015, at 17:51, Future Aviation Pty. Ltd. wrote: Good evening all While talking to Schleicher just a few minutes ago I learned that the first 10 (ten) places at the German Nationals went to ASG 29 pilots. In France the results were similar but only the first 8 (eight) places were taken by ASG 29 pilots. If my information is correct, no other glider has ever dominated its class as clearly as the ASG 29. Sorry, Adam - it just had to be said!!! Kind regards to all. Bernard Eckey Future Aviation Pty. Ltd. ec...@internode.on.net Ph. 08 8449 2871 Mob. 0412 981 204 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life
Well I got belittled Sean just because I am not very proficient with a PC. Once was enough thanks. From: Sean Jorgensen-Day Sent: Monday, August 03, 2015 8:22 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life Mike, As it happens CAD has responded on the gfaforum :- there is no extra requirement for a Form 2 pack – so hence no extra cost. The gfaforum has proved very successful in extracting an answer from the GFA. The answer was informative and did not come with any “rebuttal/belittlement/denigration of the originator. “ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 3 August 2015 8:19 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life It is pretty obviously just another way of raising money. If the high use gliders are getting 100 hour/3 month inspections there is obviously no safety issue here. GFA just wants to charge for another Form 2 pack. It is just like the brilliant tug pilot tax. Forcing tug pilots to belong to GFA is just another dumb move. The claim CASA didn't want to worry about tow ratings doesn't ring true. They still need to issue them for banner towing. Simplifying the tow rating or eliminating it by just requiring a proper briefing might actually help the sport. I've had lots of launches behind pilots who weren't GFA members. At Beverley in the 1970s Dave Woodward organised not just a towplane but a standby one that could be called on complete with pilot. There have been times at contests when ag planes complete with pilots have been hired. Forcing GFA membership on the pilots will in many cases either result in the pilots saying "screw that!" when required to join the GFA or the club/contest organisers will have to buy a membership for each. Hence the "tax". Unfortunately there is nothing that anyone can do about either as the GFA Board own the organisation and aren't subject to either adult supervision or the discipline of elections by the "members". As for the GFA chat forum, why would anyone bother? Anything regarded as controversial by the Board will not see the light of day or if it does come complete with rebuttal/belittlement/denigration of the originator. Mike At 08:11 PM 30/07/2015, you wrote: In the most recent draft of MOSP 3 (19 June 2015), a new requirement has been added in by the GFA. A form 2 now lasts only for the lesser of 250 hours, or 12 months (Section 11.3.2). Particularly for clubs with high use two seaters, this is an extremely expensive burden. For example, at Southern Cross, this means we'll be almost doubling our Form 2 inspections across the fleet in any given 12 month period. Our DG1000 will be probably subject to 3 most years. Is anyone aware of the rationale behind this change? Considering most of these high use gliders are already subject to 100hrly and/or 3 month inspections, it seems like an extremely expensive exercise that is will not make us any safer. These gliders have been operating for years or decades with a single yearly main checkup. -- Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] FW: New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life
I do not want to be belittled again thank you Sean. Chris Club Airworthiness Officer From: Sean Jorgensen-Day Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 8:16 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] FW: New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life Instead of discussing this on aus-soaring why not take it to the gfaforum list? You may then get a response from somebody in GFA. I’ll cross post shortly. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ian Mc Phee Sent: Friday, 31 July 2015 3:46 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life ASK13 & Bergfalke just fly & makers requirements are minimal. I can remember in good old days at keepit Bergfalke would do up to 415hrs in a year. Seems like oversee ice to me. Ian Mc Phee On 30 Jul 2015 8:40 pm, "Peter Champness" wrote: Thanks Justin, I would like to see some justification for this change, or even better, see it reversed. From my experience I can see no justification for such a change. Lets put it to the test! Or see the change REVERSED. On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:11 PM, Justin Couch wrote: In the most recent draft of MOSP 3 (19 June 2015), a new requirement has been added in by the GFA. A form 2 now lasts only for the lesser of 250 hours, or 12 months (Section 11.3.2). Particularly for clubs with high use two seaters, this is an extremely expensive burden. For example, at Southern Cross, this means we'll be almost doubling our Form 2 inspections across the fleet in any given 12 month period. Our DG1000 will be probably subject to 3 most years. Is anyone aware of the rationale behind this change? Considering most of these high use gliders are already subject to 100hrly and/or 3 month inspections, it seems like an extremely expensive exercise that is will not make us any safer. These gliders have been operating for years or decades with a single yearly main checkup. -- Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life
The maintenance schedules that come with the A/C have always seemed quite adequate to me without this form 2 ‘thing’. From: Peter Champness Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 8:40 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] New MOSP 3 250hr max Form 2 life Thanks Justin, I would like to see some justification for this change, or even better, see it reversed. >From my experience I can see no justification for such a change. Lets put it to the test! Or see the change REVERSED. On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:11 PM, Justin Couch wrote: In the most recent draft of MOSP 3 (19 June 2015), a new requirement has been added in by the GFA. A form 2 now lasts only for the lesser of 250 hours, or 12 months (Section 11.3.2). Particularly for clubs with high use two seaters, this is an extremely expensive burden. For example, at Southern Cross, this means we'll be almost doubling our Form 2 inspections across the fleet in any given 12 month period. Our DG1000 will be probably subject to 3 most years. Is anyone aware of the rationale behind this change? Considering most of these high use gliders are already subject to 100hrly and/or 3 month inspections, it seems like an extremely expensive exercise that is will not make us any safer. These gliders have been operating for years or decades with a single yearly main checkup. -- Justin Couch http://www.vlc.com.au/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 142, Issue 24
http://trove.nla.gov.au/work/161578705?q=Luftwaffe+man&c=picture&versionId=176120138 http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/PhotoSearchItemDetail.asp?M=0&B=31368024&SE=1 Date is wrong. Should be 1964. -Original Message- From: Noel Roediger Sent: Friday, July 24, 2015 3:34 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 142, Issue 24 Chris. Could you fwd a copy of the article to me directly. Couldn't down load from aus-soaring. Thanks Noel. -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 24 July 2015 1:37 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 142, Issue 24 Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net You can reach the person managing the list at aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Harry Schneider (Christopher McDonnell) -- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2015 14:06:41 +1000 From: "Christopher McDonnell" Subject: [Aus-soaring] Harry Schneider To: Message-ID: <252262AA6F2E4742A81849AE21603FE8@ownerPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Just reading ?the magazine? over lunch and the story re Harry. Here are two photos of my prototype Boomerang GQG building and going out the door. Both with Harry in attendance. QG went on to attend the world comps at South Cerney UK in 1965. The article these photos come from describe him as a ?Luftwaffe man?. Chris -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150 724/8ade9be7/attachment.html> -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Luftwaffe man 1.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 38110 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150 724/8ade9be7/attachment.jpg> -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Luftwaffe man 2.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 38523 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150 724/8ade9be7/attachment-0001.jpg> -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: World Comps 1965.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 57139 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150 724/8ade9be7/attachment-0002.jpg> -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 142, Issue 24 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Press
Just a lengthy article and film on it on it ABC News Channel 24. Now I know what SF looks like. From: Nelson Handcock Sent: Monday, June 29, 2015 10:44 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Press http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-29/mountain-wave-mean-glider-pilots-soar-to-new-heights-in-canberra/6579512 Thanks & Regards, Nelson Handcock 0409 149919 http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Press
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-29/mountain-wave-mean-glider-pilots-soar-to-new-heights-in-canberra/6579512 BTW there was a glider pilot suicide in UK last week or so. Just in the glider this time TG.___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fwd: Harry Schneider recognised in 2015 Australian Aviation Hall of Fame
Edmund and son Harry Schneider. From: Mike Cleaver Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 10:09 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Fwd: Harry Schneider recognised in 2015 Australian Aviation Hall of Fame Just published - thanks Drew for putting it on another forum. Four of the 5 individual inductees have at least some connection with gliding, and two of them best known for their gliding activity. Harry Schneider came to Australia shortly after WW2 with his parents, to set up a glider manufacturing business in South Australia, with sponsorship by the Australian government. For the next 30 years they designed and built the ES range of gliders, from the ES49 Wallaby to the ES65 Platypus, and later became the Australian agents for Glasflugel gliders. Thanks to the Directors of the Australian Aviation Hall of Fame, and particularly Paul Tyrrell (a member of Temora GC), for granting this well-deserved recognition to someone who has promoted gliding for the whole of his life. Mike Cleaver Hall of Fame announces 2015 Inductees 25 Jun 2015 The Australian Aviation Hall of Fame (AAHOF) announced the 2015 inductees at a ceremony at Parliament House, Sydney, last night. AAHOF Chairman Steve Padgett made the announcement in front of a gathering of aviation figures. The inductees for 2015 are: a.. Victa Airtourer designer Henry Millicer b.. Aviation pioneer and author Patrick Gordon (PG) Taylor c.. Donald Anderson, the first Director of Civil Aviation in Australia d.. Aviation pioneer Charles Ulm e.. Gliding identity Harry Schneider f.. The Southern Cross Award: Temora Aviation Museum Inductions into the AAHOF are scheduled for a gala event in Wagga Wagga on 19 September. Good to see Harry recognised in this way for his contributions to Australian glider and sailplane design and production, gliding operations and support to many clubs over the years. Drew ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] accident
Ballina Shire Advocate. First sentence of brief I received. Now notice it clashes with their own headline. Press & aviation Gr! From: Nick Gilbert Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 1:13 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] accident Pilot has reportedly passed away. Where did you see it reported as a glider? I can only find ultralight - RAA chairman has commented on it : http://www.northernstar.com.au/news/light-aircraft-crash-tyagarah/2682723/ On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: There has been a glider accident at Tyagarah (Byron Bay) 50+ year old man with injuries. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] accident
There has been a glider accident at Tyagarah (Byron Bay) 50+ year old man with injuries.___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat
Some of it does happen now EP. Gympie GC has a wonderful resident dog. She is a real lady and is named Mouse. Greets everybody that comes and attends briefing. Sits around the pie cart all day and ensures all is well. Oh, and eats everybody's crusts. -Original Message- From: emilis prelgauskas Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 7:56 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat Because the sport has gone through a number of evolutions, these are precisely the stories which deserve capturing. As the 'it can't happen now' in the current preferred form of the sport means that whole generations of pilots both don't understand the short hand references some pilots make plus the connection these make to previous modes of the sport. Some pilots then become perplexed (even angry if past posts are any guide) as they intuitively guess that they are missing out on something relevant. Like George Detto's workshop cat (ask a long term Southern Cross pilot) the horse drawn Zeppelin (shhh, don't mention the war) and JRIP Industires which even though it is very recent is already a 'colours' anecdote (the story was offered to a gliding magazine but that only confused the editor) On 23/06/2015, at 1:00 AM, Paul Mander wrote: In memory of Spreader, the flying dog. Once the mascot of the Sunraysia Gliding Club, Spreader got his name and lost most of his teeth snapping at the winch wire with all its knots. [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of DMcD Sent: Monday, 22 June 2015 10:23 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat I've been flying with a dog. Not my dog, but the instructor's who was in the back seat. Also in a Blanik. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat
No, the story goes they thought it was a snake but threw out the cat. BTW I have seen snakes in gliding club hangars. One just recently. From: Gary Stevenson Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 3:46 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat A snake too! From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Monday, 22 June 2015 3:08 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat Nor to me but there has been a myth about such an event in gliding in Australia for years. From: Norm Sutton Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 2:30 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat Doesn’t look like a glider to me. On 22 Jun 2015, at 14:21, Christopher McDonnell wrote: http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/06/22/13/58/cat-goes-sky-high-in-glider-ride ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat
Nor to me but there has been a myth about such an event in gliding in Australia for years. From: Norm Sutton Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 2:30 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] flying cat Doesn’t look like a glider to me. On 22 Jun 2015, at 14:21, Christopher McDonnell wrote: http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/06/22/13/58/cat-goes-sky-high-in-glider-ride ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] flying cat
http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/06/22/13/58/cat-goes-sky-high-in-glider-ride___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Good press
I liked: “The sport is regulated by the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, ..” Much better starting point and security builder than trying to explain the GFA and it is also the truth. They can learn all about that GFA later. From: Gary Stevenson Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 3:06 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Good press Quotable quotes “The times I enjoyed it most is when I have been high [in the atmosphere].” Parenthesis/brackets are just sooo handy at times. Seriously, it is nice to see the word getting out. Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Friday, 19 June 2015 2:04 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Good press http://www.abc.net.au/local/photos/2015/06/19/4258343.htm ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Good press
http://www.abc.net.au/local/photos/2015/06/19/4258343.htm___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Transponders USA
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/aerospace/2015-06-16/faa-ponders-revocation-glider-transponder-exemption___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Suitable caption :-)
Outlanding Description: Binary data ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Entertainment
http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2015/May/13/CloudStreet-program-captures-soaring-for-PBS___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Interesting-re training
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/City/Nashik/Gliding-club-told-to-repay-admission-fees-to-Mumbai-man/articleshow/47228072.cms___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 7
Magic to see it in the strong westerlies so often wasn't it EP. -Original Message- From: emilis prelgauskas Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 9:06 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 7 On 10/05/2015, at 5:00 PM, Geoff Vincent wrote: Photo taken where and when exactly, Emilis? Satellite view kindly provided by Leigh Bunting. 5 years ago or so Reflective of regular westerly flow over My Lofty Range adjacent to Adelaide - mixed terrain and pre-frontal shear wave over the eastern plain; notionally accessible from 5 gliding sites in SA. Iterations have been as varied as entering on downwind at 500' or having to go 10km upwind to the Foehn gap to get in. Much of the wave is 'illegal', with local 4500' airspace step; gets better further north with 8000' airspace step, going to 11,000' further east. On very seldom occasions have had local clearance by radio with ATC when commercial traffic was light for several hours, and the Controller had some clue what was trying to be achieved. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 7
Watched that one being unused from my verandah for 30 years EP. -Original Message- From: emilis prelgauskas Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2015 5:09 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 140, Issue 7 yes ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Two seater Nats
Nats?Sounds like something for Dragsters or Hot Rods. From: John Welsh Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 12:50 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two seater Nats Why you no tell us you were leaving? Us zombies miss U Ron! From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Tuesday, 5 May 2015 10:11 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two seater Nats You bloody betcha given that i am now based in MELBOURNE !! i feel alive! back in the land of the living rather than being isolated in Perth!!! On 5 May 2015 at 11:19, Ross McLean wrote: Hi Ron Apparently there was some discussion about holding the comps at another venue. That didn't proceed so now NGC is seeking Sports committee ratification to hold them at Narromine in February. Will you come this time? Cheers, ROSS From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Sunday, 3 May 2015 11:57 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Two seater Nats Just wondering why this competition is not listed in GlidingAustralia.org in the calendar?? Ron ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Inverted Spins
and the pitot extension. -Original Message- From: Optusnet Sent: Saturday, May 02, 2015 6:57 PM To: den...@hipperson.net ; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Inverted Spins We should all be doing these if using a ASK21 with spin kit. :). :) Justin Sinclair 17 Queen st Scarborough Qld 4020 Mob 0421061811 Hm 07 3885 8949 Sent from iPhone On 2 May 2015, at 18:11, Dennis wrote: Thought someone might enjoy this, Inverted spin in DG 1000s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ung4gmrqSU ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Bad news reporting - correction request
I think it was meant in one of it’s alternative senses of:Curious, especially inappropriately so. Anyway I don’t do it no more. Cheers Chris From: Peter Champness Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 6:52 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bad news reporting - correction request Prurient! I had to look up the meaning. It seems an odd thing to say. prurient ˈprʊərɪənt/adjective adjective: prurient 1.. having or encouraging an excessive interest in sexual matters, especially the sexual activity of others. "she'd been the subject of much prurient curiosity" synonyms: salacious, licentious, voyeuristic, lascivious, lecherous, lustful, lewd, libidinous, lubricious; On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:54 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Hi Anthony, I used to post gliding accidents I came across from my various news sources until somebody on the list accused me of being prurient. So don’t do it too often. Cheers Chris From: Rob Wintulich Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 4:01 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bad news reporting - correction request Generally speaking, the Media is not interested in the facts, only headlines. Anything that falls out of the sky represents headlines to them and they are not interested in letting any facts get in the way of their story. All segments of aviation, GA, RAAus, GFA etc. get tarnished with the same brush when anything falls out of the sky – after all, we are all crazy to be pursuing such unnatural dangerous activities. Trying to correct them will only put them off side – I suggest you not bother! Furthermore, be very careful about anything you might say to a journalist if interviewed about an adverse incident and never express an opinion. It will be misconstrued. From: Greg Wilson Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 2:40 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bad news reporting - correction request The email address for news.com is n...@news.com.au . If enough of us email them pointing out the error, they may correct it promptly. On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:03:12 +1000 Anthony Smith wrote Sorry, my bad. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Nick Gilbert Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2015 1:31 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] More bad news Still bad news, but... Sent from my iPhone On 30 Apr 2015, at 12:57 pm, Anthony Smith wrote: http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/search-for-crashed-light-plane-in-wa/story-e6frfku9-1227327992249 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5863 / Virus Database: 4339/9659 - Release Date: 04/29/15 -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Bad news reporting - correction request
Hi Anthony, I used to post gliding accidents I came across from my various news sources until somebody on the list accused me of being prurient. So don’t do it too often. Cheers Chris From: Rob Wintulich Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 4:01 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bad news reporting - correction request Generally speaking, the Media is not interested in the facts, only headlines. Anything that falls out of the sky represents headlines to them and they are not interested in letting any facts get in the way of their story. All segments of aviation, GA, RAAus, GFA etc. get tarnished with the same brush when anything falls out of the sky – after all, we are all crazy to be pursuing such unnatural dangerous activities. Trying to correct them will only put them off side – I suggest you not bother! Furthermore, be very careful about anything you might say to a journalist if interviewed about an adverse incident and never express an opinion. It will be misconstrued. From: Greg Wilson Sent: Thursday, April 30, 2015 2:40 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bad news reporting - correction request The email address for news.com is n...@news.com.au . If enough of us email them pointing out the error, they may correct it promptly. On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 14:03:12 +1000 Anthony Smith wrote Sorry, my bad. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Nick Gilbert Sent: Thursday, 30 April 2015 1:31 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] More bad news Still bad news, but... Sent from my iPhone On 30 Apr 2015, at 12:57 pm, Anthony Smith wrote: http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/search-for-crashed-light-plane-in-wa/story-e6frfku9-1227327992249 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5863 / Virus Database: 4339/9659 - Release Date: 04/29/15 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] IS29D life extension
But a relevant point still is: “Just as well there isn't a 35 year life limit on all the aluminium powered aircraft like Cessnas, Pipers, Beechcraft etc. I'll say it again: There are no engineering reasons for this life limit on aluminium aircraft. They can fatigue or corrode (or both) and this can be inspected for.” Hangar Queen compared with a club aircraft? Chris -Original Message- From: DMcD Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2015 9:34 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] IS29D life extension >>If we had an an organisation in Australia that was actually interested in >>promoting gliding and helping people do it easier and cheaper, things might >>be different. Easier and cheaper? Name me one alu airframe which is lower maintenance than a glass glider! Promoting gliding? Who turns up at a club, having seen pictures of shiny glass gliders in promo material, and happily climbs into a dusty, buckled and faded antique? I'm sure that with the limited resources available to the GFA, they have no time to chase around trying to keep a handful of relics in the air. I know that most busy clubs have better things to do than to keep alu gliders in the air compared with glass ones. It takes about 1 day a year to maintain a K21 and two or more weeks to maintain a KRO3. I know that for smaller clubs this is a difficult scenario but I don't believe the small gliding movement in Australia can have one foot nailed to the ground by trying to keep heritage aircraft flying. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] control towers
Now if only Maroochydore had one direct flight a week to Adelaide I am sure they would fill it with tourists and expats. From: Mike Borgelt Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2015 7:58 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] control towers http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-ideas/the-remote-island-thats-on-the-brink-of-a-tourist-invasion/story-e6frfqer-1227305593467 Two flights a week. Note control tower. Mike Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Another break up.
http://www.thelocal.se/20150407/man-dies-in-glider-plane-crash-in-sweden___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] wow
More & vid. http://www.mynews4.com/news/local/story/Aviation-expert-gives-input-on-glider-crash-in/lL6sApmJ9E-Yk4tYfNfIWw.cspx From: Jim Staniforth Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2015 2:24 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] wow Newspapers reported rubbish like "the high wind broke one of the wings off". It was in really strong wave conditions, and not blue so clouds may have been a factor. An example of the conditions: Jim Payne will be submitting a World 1000k O/R claim at 255kph. At high altitude, VNE is easy to exceed if you're not paying attention. Exceed VNE by too much or pull abruptly to slow down and the wings come off. This has happened previously over Reno: Pilot heard a "snap" and had to jump out of his ASH26E. He had been enveloped in cloud, tried to push to get out. Apparently this pilot's feet didn't touch the ground. The parachute caught on a light pole, much better than being dragged off the parking structure in the wind. Hopefully FAA won't overreact and make everyone do parachute landings as part of the BFR. Jim On 4/6/2015 3:46 AM, Ben Jones wrote: Someone have the final glide speed set a little too fast ?? From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Monday, 6 April 2015 6:42 PM To: Arie; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] wow http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Wingless-Glider-Crashes-Into-Reno-Parking-Lot-223794-1.html Mike Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Syndicates
There used to be a “pro forma agreement” on the Regulator’s web site. I’ll have a look if it is still there. From: trevor.bu...@bigpond.com Sent: Monday, March 23, 2015 6:48 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Syndicates Getting out of partnerships/syndicates is usually more difficult than getting in. Does anyone have a good set of rules or rule for syndicate operation and exit of members? Is there a rule or rules that might help avoid a bad experience that you have had? Trevor Burke ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Wool tuft testing
I looked at the calendar for a second there Adam :-) -Original Message- From: Adam Woolley Sent: Monday, March 09, 2015 6:02 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Wool tuft testing G'day all, Has anyone got any experience or thoughts on wool tuft testing a wing root? Does wing loading matter? What wool lengths & thickness is best? How many? What pattern? Cheers, WPP ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Clear Nav MFD software & Garmin date issue.
Thespian cuz of mine does high standard Australian English voiceovers for a few UK & US of A products for marketing here. From: Mike Cleaver Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 5:18 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Clear Nav MFD software & Garmin date issue. No way Chris - but probably not enough demand worldwide for an Ocker version! Sent from Wombat's iPad On 27 Feb 2015, at 13:00, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Well Macca, it is sometimes hard to understand a BBC announcer or like their accent also. I think ‘mid Atlantic English’ is the term for universal clarity and neutrality used by the acting profession. But! From: Ian Mc Phee Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 11:37 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Clear Nav MFD software & Garmin date issue. If using this ClearNav MFD system please ensure you have the latest software installed currently 2.2.0.73. Hopefully soon there will be a new voice which will be a BBC announcer voice rather that awful American accent. David Masson who does the software is English!! and we both agree on that point. There is going to a bit of delay in having the CLEARNAV II upgrade done as Americans seem to have jumped in first. I will talk to customer upgrade number 1 (a friend ) shortly for his impressions. Also if removing a clearnav vario for upgrade to secure logger please do an upgrade of software before removal and then the display is up to date. The Garmin date issue. The Garmin GPS25 engine internal battery replacement (model 20 logger) or the conversion of Cambridge 302 from GPS25 engine to the GPS15xL-W is going well so far. I would like to think all have checked their UTC DATE & time by now in model 20 logger or 302 vario or 302A logger, (in 303 page up or down on the latitude page) That's all for a while I hope. Ian mcphee 0428847642 -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Press
Pilot is also co-owner of the prototype ES Ka6 but spends part of his life getting people to get New! New! New! -Original Message- From: jma99...@bigpond.net.au Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 12:34 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Cc: Christopher McDonnell Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press Well I'll be, that looks like a Blanik they are in, its not new and plastic and yet the flights were enjoyable who would have thought... JR Christopher McDonnell wrote: > http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2015/02/do-something-new-5-gliding.html ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Press
Pilot BTW is a marketing person too and he seems to be enjoying the old tin can also.CMcD---JR -Original Message- From: jma99...@bigpond.net.au Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 12:34 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Cc: Christopher McDonnell Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press Well I'll be, that looks like a Blanik they are in, its not new and plastic and yet the flights were enjoyable who would have thought... JR---- Christopher McDonnell wrote: http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2015/02/do-something-new-5-gliding.html ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Clear Nav MFD software & Garmin date issue.
Well Macca, it is sometimes hard to understand a BBC announcer or like their accent also. I think ‘mid Atlantic English’ is the term for universal clarity and neutrality used by the acting profession. But! From: Ian Mc Phee Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 11:37 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Clear Nav MFD software & Garmin date issue. If using this ClearNav MFD system please ensure you have the latest software installed currently 2.2.0.73. Hopefully soon there will be a new voice which will be a BBC announcer voice rather that awful American accent. David Masson who does the software is English!! and we both agree on that point. There is going to a bit of delay in having the CLEARNAV II upgrade done as Americans seem to have jumped in first. I will talk to customer upgrade number 1 (a friend ) shortly for his impressions. Also if removing a clearnav vario for upgrade to secure logger please do an upgrade of software before removal and then the display is up to date. The Garmin date issue. The Garmin GPS25 engine internal battery replacement (model 20 logger) or the conversion of Cambridge 302 from GPS25 engine to the GPS15xL-W is going well so far. I would like to think all have checked their UTC DATE & time by now in model 20 logger or 302 vario or 302A logger, (in 303 page up or down on the latitude page) That's all for a while I hope. Ian mcphee 0428847642 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
I would give the messenger refreshment after his journey and ask him why there was nothing in his master’s envelope. Done a bit re the master’s ‘records’ lately. From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 2:19 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots If you want a messenger to continue delivering messages, it would be best not to start by shooting them. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 2:03 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Records are just that. RECORDS! From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots There is a list of current records, but (to the best of my knowledge) no archive of previous holders. I could be wrong. I was, once. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 1:10 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Surely there is an accessible permanent archive of such matters kept by the responsible entity. From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:44 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots I believe that a Blanik held the Free Distance 2 seat record in Australia for many years. Something like Waikerie to Narromine? Someone with access to historical information such as old AG magazines, (or with a longer memory) may recall better than I can. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 12:00 PM, Ross McLean wrote: There was a long standing tradition for many years that Mark Bland and various co-pilots would fly the Blanik from Mt Beauty to Narromine and return during Narromine Cup week. ROSS _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of stephenk Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2015 8:38 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
Any record holder would be disappointed that their effort had not been ‘recorded’. There have been various periods of ‘hands off the wheel’ since 1949. Isn’t that one of the things sports regulators do BTW ? Semantics Scott and not funny. From: Scott Penrose Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 1:10 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 17 Feb 2015, at 2:03 pm, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Records are just that. RECORDS! They go around and around and have a whole in the middle. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
Records are just that. RECORDS! From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 12:36 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots There is a list of current records, but (to the best of my knowledge) no archive of previous holders. I could be wrong. I was, once. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 1:10 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: Surely there is an accessible permanent archive of such matters kept by the responsible entity. From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:44 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots I believe that a Blanik held the Free Distance 2 seat record in Australia for many years. Something like Waikerie to Narromine? Someone with access to historical information such as old AG magazines, (or with a longer memory) may recall better than I can. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 12:00 PM, Ross McLean wrote: There was a long standing tradition for many years that Mark Bland and various co-pilots would fly the Blanik from Mt Beauty to Narromine and return during Narromine Cup week. ROSS _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of stephenk Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2015 8:38 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots
Surely there is an accessible permanent archive of such matters kept by the responsible entity. From: Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:44 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots I believe that a Blanik held the Free Distance 2 seat record in Australia for many years. Something like Waikerie to Narromine? Someone with access to historical information such as old AG magazines, (or with a longer memory) may recall better than I can. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 17/02/2015 12:00 PM, Ross McLean wrote: There was a long standing tradition for many years that Mark Bland and various co-pilots would fly the Blanik from Mt Beauty to Narromine and return during Narromine Cup week. ROSS _ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of stephenk Sent: Tuesday, 17 February 2015 8:38 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Blanik Flights [Was] Early X/C pilots On 16/02/2015 9:30 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote: ... Question: Does anybody have an idea as to the max distance a K13/Blanik has flown in Australia? I seem to recall that a Blanik once held a World Record with a distance flight of over 800 k. ... No, I don't know what the longest is, but in 1989 Port Augusta Gliding Club won the two seater decentralised competition with two 300s and a 500 in a Blanik. If my memory serves me correctly the second place getter was a certain large club who flew long flights in a high performance glider (possible ASH25 but my memory is hazy) including one 1000km. But we beat them on handicap. Regards SWK ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Shell 98 and fibreglass
Off point, but I am amazed that with servo fuel the expression ‘unleaded’ is still used and leaded has not been around for years. Why not just 91, 95 & 98 octane petrol/fuel? From: Laurie Hoffman Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 5:34 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Shell 98 and fibreglass The last point by John is something that I have been thinking about lately. With almost all (all?) PULP now being imported I would expect greater time lags between production and supply at the pump. We have posted before about our fascinating experiences with varying petrol brands particularly in relation to loss of octane rating over surprisingly short periods of time (<14 days). Shipping from Singapore surely must maker older before use. Due to its MSDS advice that BP has a shelf life of 12 months we only ever use BP98 with almost no problems. More recently we did however have an issue where some detonation occurred and fresh 98 rectified it. The bad 98 was only stored for a couple of weeks. Regards Laurie Hoffman From: "jo...@optusnet.com.au" To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Tuesday, 3 February 2015, 17:05 Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Shell 98 and fibreglass Most (all?) oil companies will tell you that mogas is not approved for aviation use. There are a number of reasons for this but one is the much greater compositional variability of mogas compared with avgas. This has little to do with additives, which are used at very low treat rates, but rather the composition of the fuel itself. As for testing fuel in Sydney, you could, but by the time you get any results they will be meaningless because a number of batches of fuel from various offshore refineries will have passed through the distribution system in the mean time. All it would tell you is the effect on resin of the fuel which happened to be in the service station tanks 3 months ago. ...John From: Future Aviation Pty. Ltd. Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2015 3:16 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Shell 98 and fibreglass Hi Ian Many thanks for sharing that with us. It confirms what Gerhard Waibel told me about 15 years ago. He said that fuel bladders are preferable to wing tanks "because you never know what additives get added to the fuel in future and what they do to the resins used in those wing tanks”. Fuel bladders are easy to replace, but wing tanks ….. Kind regards to all! Bernard On 3 Feb 2015, at 2:14 pm, Ian Mc Phee wrote: This is sample of I think 3 layers of 125 glass which was left in shell 98 for about 2 months. The glass is now soft and can be easily twisted like say clear packaging. It is a bit sticky on surface. It seems it will never harden up again. Thus under no circumstances would I use Shell or Liberty 98 from say out of Brisbane in any aircraft with fibreglass tanks. Jabiru web site say do not use shell 98 in any Jabiru but 95,and Avgas is OK. Royal Dutch Shell sold out to another Dutch company for retail of fuel in Australia and they have the right to use the name Shell. My next test is sample of Shell 98 and BP 98 as well as Avgas. The Shell is a golden yellow while BP is more neutral colour. Smell is different also. If any body would like a mini movie of the sample then ask. I would urge others down south (Sydney, Vic & SA) to try their fuels. Ian mcphee ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4273/9047 - Release Date: 02/02/15 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, v
[Aus-soaring] Press
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/mans-miraculous-escape-after-home-built-kit-plane-crashes-at-gawler/story-e6frg6n6-1227205317118?nk=71631a7fb353205af6e22074a77b63d2___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Press
Oops ! See, ‘Oldtimers’ http://www.cootamundraherald.com.au/story/2806973/glider-comes-up-short/ From: Christopher McDonnell Sent: Monday, January 12, 2015 11:00 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Press Better report. Its all these aged glider pilots with their “Old Timer’s” forgetting things. Seems also with better roads more farmers are living in town especially nearer coasts. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Press
Better report. Its all these aged glider pilots with their “Old Timer’s” forgetting things. Seems also with better roads more farmers are living in town especially nearer coasts.___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] ASK21 spinning was Re: Spin training
John Parncutt VMFG (Melbourne Gliding Club) Thanks John. I wish people on this list, including myself, would sign off like that. Very helpful. Initials often mean nothing also. Most end in GC leaving you guessing on the former. Chris Gympie GC -Original Message- From: John Parncutt Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2015 5:42 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ASK21 spinning was Re: Spin training We have been using a DG1001 in our club for basic training for about two years now, having decided to dispose of our aging Puchacz. In my view the Puchacz was an excellent trainer with very predictable spin characteristics and at the time I was concerned that the DG1001 would not be as good. After two years I can say that the DG1001 has proved itself to be a more than worthy replacement, in fact we are about to receive a second DG1001 in February. We ordered the first glider with a fixed undercarriage and with the standard tips, the new glider will have a retractable undercarriage and have the longer (20 Metre) wing options, we have also ordered the retractable wheel kit for our existing DG1001 which is planned to be fitted at the next form 2. Unlike the water ballast system in our DG505 The tail ballast system in the DG1001 is highly visible with red painted brass blocks behind a perspex cover in the tailfin. This makes it easy to see that the glider is correctly ballasted for pilot weight during two pilot operations. This ensures easy and predictable spin entry and recovery. In the past I had been of the opinion that the Puchacz was "The best bloody training glider I have flown", however I think that a pilot trained to solo standard in the DG1001 has an easier transition to a modern single seater. The 20 metre extensions combined with retractable undercarriage means the glider has a multipurpose role of basic/advanced trainer and a good cross country club machine. John Parncutt VMFG (Melbourne Gliding Club) -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of DMcD Sent: 11 January, 2015 16:01 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ASK21 spinning was Re: Spin training I was talking to an instructor yesterday who was working with the RAAF cadets. I was a little surprised to see a couple of cadets flying the DG 1000 solo and asked a few questions about his experiences. He said that he was initially against buying the DG and voted for a more heritage glider type but having flown a few hundred hours in them considered that the DG 1000 was "the best bloody training glider I have flown." He did say that fitting spin kits to gliders was a hassle that they did not need in their operations so the fact that the DG 1000 spins nicely without a kit is good. He said that the DG did not present a problem either in spinning, spin recovery or being too slippery and making speed control in the circuit difficult. Nor was it a problem in transitioning cadets from a fairly high performance 2 seater to a lower performance single seater such as the Junior and they had done 14 in the last few days. I guess it is entirely possible that cadets pick up things faster than old folk and flying a high performance glider from the outset is not so much of a problem but I doubt it. There was a time when it was thought that you could only learn to fly a hang glider by starting in a Rogallo but as time went by and people learned in higher and higher performance HGs, it was realised that slow and stable is not as important as responsive and controllable. The RAAF probably don't have the budget issues of a normal gliding club but I would think that a glider like the DG is far more what a student pilots expects to learn to fly in than a K13 or a metal glider such as the Puchatek. D ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Press
Yes, that is a possible scenario, amongst others, and I have done it for that and other reasons. Never been assessed on it though. From: Dion Stuart Baker Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 1:02 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press "Your passenger is vomiting uncontrollably, is freaking out bit time, and wants out NOW. You have speed limiting airbrakes. Demonstrate what you would do." I'm sure a few of us have actually had to do this at some point. On 9 January 2015 at 13:12, Christopher McDonnell wrote: “.was required to drop from 8000 feet to 3700 feet as part of the assessment..” Wonder what that’s about? From: Mike Borgelt Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 11:10 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press Yup, story screwed up. Then you read the rest of the paper and believe every word. Mike On 9 Jan 2015, at 8:49 am, Scott Penrose wrote: First sentence says he crashed. Last one said he landed in a paddock without incident. Don’t they need to pick one. Scott On 9 Jan 2015, at 11:44 am, Nelson Handcock wrote: Outlanding equals crash according to this media... http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/2805595/glider-pilot-found-safe/?cs=148 Thanks & Regards, Nelson Handcock 0409 149919 http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- sudo apt-get install witty-mail-signature cannot find package: witty-mail-signature sudo apt-get install lame-mail-signature installing ... The main idea of "Inception": if you run a VM inside a VM inside a VM inside a VM, everything will be very, very slow. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Press
“.was required to drop from 8000 feet to 3700 feet as part of the assessment..” Wonder what that’s about? From: Mike Borgelt Sent: Friday, January 09, 2015 11:10 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Press Yup, story screwed up. Then you read the rest of the paper and believe every word. Mike On 9 Jan 2015, at 8:49 am, Scott Penrose wrote: First sentence says he crashed. Last one said he landed in a paddock without incident. Don’t they need to pick one. Scott On 9 Jan 2015, at 11:44 am, Nelson Handcock wrote: Outlanding equals crash according to this media... http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/2805595/glider-pilot-found-safe/?cs=148 Thanks & Regards, Nelson Handcock 0409 149919 http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Press
http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/story/2805595/glider-pilot-found-safe/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Compass Swinging
STOP having fun Stephen. From: stephenk Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 7:27 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Compass Swinging Hey, don't diss compasses. Used in conjunction with a straight edge they can do much more than really good circles... https://picasaweb.google.com/swkswk62/Patterns#5831045860613481378 SWK On 6/01/2015 10:28 PM, Chris wrote: No but they drew really good circles the magnetic ones are there to get you hopelessly lost Sent from my iPad On 6 Jan 2015, at 8:30 pm, Ben Jones wrote: Do compasses throw their keys in a bowl also ? From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Tuesday, 6 January 2015 5:27 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Compass Swinging TG you now don’t have to adjust your balls. From: Justin Sinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 7:03 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Compass Swinging True Mike very true, unless You have a total short whilst in cloud that fry's everything else. I that case you are going to thank Christ (or what ever your mythical friend is ) your old instructor taught you ONUS. Unless you have a AHARS GPS the update rate is way to slow to fly limited panel on. Just SAYIN JJ Justin Sinclair 17 Queen st Scarborough Qld 4020 Mob 0421061811 Hm 07 3885 8949 Sent from iPhone On 6 Jan 2015, at 19:53, Mike Borgelt wrote: Obsolete instrument mandated by the Regulator. In gliders mainly used to fill instrument hole that could be used for something useful. In high wing powered aircraft can be used as attach point for pair of fluffy dice which are about as useful. Mike On 6 Jan 2015, at 4:39 pm, Mark Barnfield wrote: What’s a compass? ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Compass Swinging
TG you now don’t have to adjust your balls. From: Justin Sinclair Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 7:03 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Compass Swinging True Mike very true, unless You have a total short whilst in cloud that fry's everything else. I that case you are going to thank Christ (or what ever your mythical friend is ) your old instructor taught you ONUS. Unless you have a AHARS GPS the update rate is way to slow to fly limited panel on. Just SAYIN JJ Justin Sinclair 17 Queen st Scarborough Qld 4020 Mob 0421061811 Hm 07 3885 8949 Sent from iPhone On 6 Jan 2015, at 19:53, Mike Borgelt wrote: Obsolete instrument mandated by the Regulator. In gliders mainly used to fill instrument hole that could be used for something useful. In high wing powered aircraft can be used as attach point for pair of fluffy dice which are about as useful. Mike On 6 Jan 2015, at 4:39 pm, Mark Barnfield wrote: What’s a compass? From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Tom & Jane Gilbert Sent: Tuesday, 6 January 2015 7:13 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Compass Swinging Hi Chris, There are a few methods but the easiest is as follows... 1. Using a master compass (a good bush walking compass will do) align the glider North South. (This should be done well away from any hangars with power on and instruments running) Using a non magnetic screwdriver, adjust the compass to North. 2. Align the glider to South using the master compass and halve the error. 3. Repeat in East West. 4. Align the glider to all the cardinal headings (ie, every 30 degrees) and record the indicated heading. 5. Complete the correction card. Using this method you should be able to get to within 2 degrees on every heading (not always but usually). Regards, Tom From: Chris Runeckles Sent: Tuesday, January 6, 2015 6:15 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: [Aus-soaring] Compass Swinging Hi sailplane drivers. Has any one got a procedure for swinging glider compasses, or a link to a web article would be good? Many thanks Chris Runeckles ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4257/8877 - Release Date: 01/05/15 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] David Jansen Record Flight In Progress
Will the daylight saving down there help? Sorry, I really am becoming a Queenslander but. -Original Message- From: Ross McLean Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 6:24 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] David Jansen Record Flight In Progress David Jansen launched from Kingaroy at 08:30 this morning in his ASG29 and headed South. He is currently flying at about 10,000ft 30klm South of Benalla in Victoria!! Click here to follow the flight: http://www.glideport.aero/map?p=GlidePort:50619&day=2015-01-02 _ Ross McLean -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of opsw...@bigpond.net.au Sent: Friday, 2 January 2015 4:25 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] ABC report benalla accident. not good http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-02/person-killed-in-gliding-accident-in-v ic-chesney-vale/5997616 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying day:
Hi Leigh, I bet Patch is having a ball getting the hang of and maximising the performance of ornithoptering around. Cheers Chris -Original Message- From: Leigh Bunting Sent: Friday, December 26, 2014 8:31 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying day: Hey Patch, I hope St Peter let you subcribe to the list. I expect you will be getting a giggle out of this - or was that the thunder I just heard earlier Cheers mate Leigh On 25/12/14 21:37, James Dutschke wrote: he was forced to have the horses draw a suitable replacement. A 1932 zeppelin. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying day:
“Pitty those at the top of our body are more idealistic than practical”. Thanks Grant, but they are also not idealistic in some areas. -Original Message- From: Grant Davies Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 6:02 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying day: I would have to agree with this. After all flying is flying, regardless of what your flying in, at least at the ab-initio level and doing it for the enjoyment of being in the air. All types have their characteristics and the old, slow, cheap gliders are still desirable to a small club who doesn't have the membership or population to support the cost of a new starship. Pitty those at the top of our body are more idealistic than practical. Safe flying, whatever you have to commit aviation in. Remember; It's a privilege. Merry Christmas to all. Grant > On 24 Dec 2014, at 16:10, Leigh Bunting wrote: > > Funny, European and British gliding clubs cherish their K13's. I don't > believe gliding there is suffering as a result of teaching in "yesterday's > gliders". I understand Lasham (?) have 7 or 8 K13's going from dawn till dark. > > Some years ago I flew the DG-1000 at Camden including spins. Spins nicely but > jeez, it's a rocket when it stops and thought then it was gonna scare the > c..p out of students who aren't right on the ball and give the instructors > even more grey hair than they've got. Anyone know if a DG-1000 is used for ab > initio training? At least a K21 takes 1500' to get to Vne. > > Merry Xmas, > > Leigh Bunting > >> On 24/12/14 08:25, Tim Shirley wrote: >> 1. It doesn't seem to be a wise strategy for the future of gliding to teach >> tomorrows pilots to fly in yesterday's gliders. > ___ > Aus-soaring mailing list > Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying day:
“Seems to me that our sport spends far too much of its time and energy flogging dead horses.” Should I just send GQG, Jack Igullden’s and the South Cerney ES 60 to the knackers yard then. From: Tim Shirley Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 7:55 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] IS-28B CQC's last flying day: There is a Pegase at Horsham, owned by the Horsham Flying Club. There is a Centrair Marianne 2 seater at Benalla, privately owned. As a club committee member, I would have 2 comments about this thread: 1. It doesn't seem to be a wise strategy for the future of gliding to teach tomorrows pilots to fly in yesterday's gliders. The ASK21 is not new, but at least it is closer to modern technology than an IS28 and flies much more like a modern glider. 2. I'm not sure where anyone would obtain liability insurance or hull insurance for training someone or flying a passenger in an "experimental" category aircraft of any kind. Seems to me that our sport spends far too much of its time and energy flogging dead horses. Merry Christmas to all. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 24/12/2014 8:27 AM, Greg Wilson wrote: The USA were the only country to enforce a 3,000 hour life limit on Centrair Pegase due to their interpretation of the maintenance manual of that aircraft which had been translated from French to English. One page of the manual stated 3,000 hour life extension while another mentioned 3,000 life. When asked for a ruling (by some nutcase who owned one in the USA), the FAA ruled on 3,000 life instantly grounding all Pegase in that country with more than 3,000 hours. Many were still flying in European clubs with more than 3,000 hours. That ruling in the USA has only recently been overturned. The 2014 release of the Pegase maintenance manual (in french) clearly states 3,000 hour life extension. AFAIK there are 2 Pegase in Australia, mine and one in a Vic club (Benalla?). Cheers, Greg Wilson. On Wed, 24 Dec 2014 05:08:39 +1100 Jim Staniforth mailto:staniforth...@yahoo.com wrote For reference, it isn't just GFA / CASA. Even though EXP registration is much more common in the USA, FAA is not interested in moving an aircraft to EXP for life extension purposes. It has of course been tried with the Centrair Pegase.* Under FAA regulations, an EXP aircraft can be flown by rated pilots only. EXP two-seaters cannot be used for instruction or rides. Single-seat EXP can be rented just like STD aircraft, or used for towing. In my experience, registering and insuring FAA EXP is no different to STD. Just different paperwork. Jim *The Pegase now has a life extension program thanks to the work primarily of Bob Carlton. ...a Global Alternate Method Of Compliance (AMOC) that will raise the current 3,000 hour life limit on Centrair Pegase 101, 101P, 101A and 101AP gliders to 4,500 hours... On 12/23/2014 5:41 AM, Mark Newton wrote: 49-5452-46e5-9771-3e6f7d4b1...@atdot.dotat.org" type="cite"> On 24 Dec 2014, at 12:27 am, Al Borowski mailto:al.borow...@gmail.com wrote: Is there nothing like an 'Experimental' category in the glider world? It seems weird to me that I can (in theory) jump into a home-designed ultralight powered with a lawnmower motor, but can't operate a glider grounded due to a paperwork issue. The issue is fraught. GFA can issue experimental C-of-A's (or could until an audit a year or two ago, at any rate). But experimental aircraft can't be flown for hire or reward, including training; so a club can't feasibly operate them. CASA seems to take a dim view of an aircraft which meets a type certificate in all requirements except service life being operated as experimental. Except they're not consistent about it, because they obviously allow warbirds to remain in service well past their design life. You could probably operate a glider on an experimental C-of-A if it has a genuinely experimental feature, and if it was operated privately. Perhaps the IS28's at CQC wouldn't fit that template,- mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details! , visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___
[Aus-soaring] Press
http://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/news/joe-on-glide-path-to-fame-video-junior-world-champ/2490233/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Of interest
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-19/newcastle-pilot-scott-barrett-smashes-hang-gliding-world-record/5975840___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Kiwis killed in Namibia
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11367208___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] varios
From: Paul Bart Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 1:50 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios Hi Mike I would like one please. Cheers Paul On 1 December 2014 at 13:02, Mike Borgelt wrote: The new 2015 B600/B800 software is available. A minor bugfix and some re-arrangement of the GCD for better ergonomics (mostly can fly just on the one display page). Plus some internal cleanups. Email me off list for a copy. I'll take a photo of the new GCD flying page later this afternoon I hope. Mike ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] ES 60 Boomerang
Yesterday was the 50th anniversary of the prototype Boomerang’s first flight. Pic attached of her (GQG) at the South Cerney UK World championships in 1965. Chris ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Slingsby & Skylark gliders in Australia
Hi EP, Bless your late mum Frieda for starting off that wonderful collection and you for adding to and tending it. Cheers Chris -Original Message- From: emilis prelgauskas Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2014 12:12 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Slingsby & Skylark gliders in Australia On 20/11/2014, at 9:59 AM, Dion Weston wrote: Does anyone on this list know whether any of the following gliders were ever operational in Australia and if so who I might contact to obtain specific details about them? T.43 Skylark 3B T.43 Skylark 3F Slingsby T.53B From the book 'British Gliders & Sailplanes 1922 - 1970' by Norman Ellison lists: 3 view plus general description at - T.43 pages 211-212 including specific changes to the A to G sub-designations T.53B pages 222 to 223 including specific changes to A to E sub-designations pages 254 to 271 known built exemplars to Australia including T.12 cn 293A VH-GHL Gull1 T.31 sn 952 VH-GDW T.35 VH-GFX T.41 sn 964 VH-GFG, sn 1010 VH-GDO Skylark 2 T.50 sn 1382 VH-GTB Skylark 4 T.51 VH-GTQ, VH-GLT Dart 15 & 17 T.53B sn 1686 VH-GUB HP-14C VH-GTX, VH-GTY, VH-GUA, VH- GUJ, VH-GUC This list is of course now out of date, with vintage enthusiasts known to have brought in a variety of overseas airframes in recent years including T.21 at Tocumwal. No known T.43 in Australia T.53B believed to be with Australian Gliding Museum, Bacchus Marsh. Information culled from the Ferries McDonald Library at Monarto, South Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Press
http://www.nvi.com.au/story/2710669/husband-wife-team-aim-high-in-world-gliding-stakes/?cs=372___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Slingsby & Skylark gliders in Australia
Doing Slingsby only shows up 2 also. From: Dion Stuart Baker Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 2:09 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Slingsby & Skylark gliders in Australia Hi Dion, You can do a search for currently registered aircraft here: http://casa-query.funnelback.com/search/search.cgi?collection=casa_aircraft_register You can search by keyword or aircraft type/model/etc. Just using a keyword search for Skylark shows up two gliders. Hope this helps, Dion Baker On 20 November 2014 09:59, Dion Weston wrote: Does anyone on this list know whether any of the following gliders were ever operational in Australia and if so who I might contact to obtain specific details about them? T.43 Skylark 3B T.43 Skylark 3F Slingsby T.53B Dion Weston Mb +61 (408) 859-267 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- sudo apt-get install witty-mail-signature cannot find package: witty-mail-signature sudo apt-get install lame-mail-signature installing ... The main idea of "Inception": if you run a VM inside a VM inside a VM inside a VM, everything will be very, very slow. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Slingsby & Skylark gliders in Australia
There are 2 Skylarks on the CASA register. One with the museum and one with David billings who I have contacts for. No T 53's Chris -Original Message- From: Dion Weston Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:29 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Slingsby & Skylark gliders in Australia Does anyone on this list know whether any of the following gliders were ever operational in Australia and if so who I might contact to obtain specific details about them? T.43 Skylark 3B T.43 Skylark 3F Slingsby T.53B Dion Weston Mb +61 (408) 859-267 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Philipines?
More, a bit funny, but then the yanks ruled there for a long while. They must have trained the media. http://www.interaksyon.com/article/99505/german-pilot-says-it-was-not-a-crash-but-a-smooth-landing-on-tarlac-corn-field From: Christopher McDonnell Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 7:27 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Philipines? Thanks Matthew. Though gliding standards around the world are different it appears the sartorial standards are the same. From: Matthew Scutter Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 5:41 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Philipines? http://www.aviationsocietyphilippines.org/blog/?tag=nampicuan On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:35 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: http://www.interaksyon.com/article/99432/german-national-survives-nueva-ecija-plane-crash ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Philipines?
Thanks Matthew. Though gliding standards around the world are different it appears the sartorial standards are the same. From: Matthew Scutter Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2014 5:41 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Philipines? http://www.aviationsocietyphilippines.org/blog/?tag=nampicuan On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:35 PM, Christopher McDonnell wrote: http://www.interaksyon.com/article/99432/german-national-survives-nueva-ecija-plane-crash ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Gliding Philipines?
http://www.interaksyon.com/article/99432/german-national-survives-nueva-ecija-plane-crash___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Goondiwindi accident et al
That is difficult to read at ‘first’ instance for the GFA geriatric membership. From: Gary Stevenson Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 10:31 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Goondiwindi accident et al Hallo Chris, Matthew S & All, I sometimes shudder at the sheer ignorance that is often displayed by members of this forum. Here is a very condensed overview, of who has responsibility, in an aviation accident. Prime responsibility rests with the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB), a Commonwealth “Responsible Authority”. Among other things this body is empowered to investigate Aviation, Marine, and Rail accidents. Check out their web site for more information. I understand that many years ago they elected not to investigate gliding accidents. As a result, gliding accident investigation is now the responsibility of the GFA, who report back to the ATSB where appropriate. Chris Thorpe is the Executive Manager, Operations for the GFA. As part of his responsibilities, he is charged with investigating and reporting gliding accidents. In the case of the Goondiwindi accident, he completed his report on the 31 October 2014, and forwarded a copy to the ATSB. Matthew, I hope that EXACTLY answers your question. Now, would you like to know more? If you are a GFA member log on to the GFA site – members area. If you are not a GFA member, bad luck. Go to Members Services and then Operations, and look up Accidents/Incidents Particularly take note of the general comments made by David Pietsch in the preamble to this area of the site. For The Goondiwindi accident see “2015 Summaries - report No S0421”. Be aware that this report will be considered by your peers in GFA, and it is possible that one outcome may be the development of an education program for competition pilots focusing on human factors and risk management. Regards, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher McDonnell Sent: Friday, 31 October 2014 5:29 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit Gee Matthew, there is no ‘like’ tab. From: Matthew Scutter Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 4:22 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit Official report from who exactly? On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Gary Stevenson wrote: Hi Paul, As I somewhat earlier said, we should wait for the official report, and full knowledge of the facts, before trying to draw ANY definitive conclusions. Given this, I therefore was NOT making any judgement as such, at all. Other than that, you are in general perfectly correct, and your further comments/conclusions are astute and bear thinking about. >From what Jim choose to tell us, there is a difference between his final glide >and that of the other two pilots who also outlanded close to home. Jim ended >up in a situation where he had nowhere to go. In contrast, the other 2 pilots >safely landed, without incident, in a suitable paddock, and I think that is >the lesson here. They did indeed show greater wisdom. Hope that helps to clarify things for you. Kindest regards, Gary BTW let me correct one part my earlier email. The Specialist is an American – not Australian - work written many years ago by Charles Sale. However the parallels to the Australian experience are unmistakable. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Paul Mander Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2014 1:54 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit I think you’ve been a bit quick to judge. You state that whilst “Jim chose to fly on”, two other pilots made quite routine outlandings 7km back on the track, implying a greater wisdom on their part. Those outlandings were not routine, if you study the traces. They were straight in landings just as was Jim’s. One of them makes a desperate last circle close to the ground then straightens up and lands. There is a striking similarity in all three traces, which paint a cautionary picture. All three picked up climbs just before their last turn, and then appear to consider themselves on final glide. Then they turn into a 20kt headwind from the SW, lose their final glide and start to search for lift. All three try to thermal again without success. All three glide on and the ground rises up to smite them; the other two are simply 7km further out when it does. There are undoubtedly lessons to be learnt from their experience, not the least being how quickly thermals die in Queensland a
[Aus-soaring] 2014 Sci Fi novel cover
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit
Gee Matthew, there is no ‘like’ tab. From: Matthew Scutter Sent: Friday, October 31, 2014 4:22 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit Official report from who exactly? On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Gary Stevenson wrote: Hi Paul, As I somewhat earlier said, we should wait for the official report, and full knowledge of the facts, before trying to draw ANY definitive conclusions. Given this, I therefore was NOT making any judgement as such, at all. Other than that, you are in general perfectly correct, and your further comments/conclusions are astute and bear thinking about. From what Jim choose to tell us, there is a difference between his final glide and that of the other two pilots who also outlanded close to home. Jim ended up in a situation where he had nowhere to go. In contrast, the other 2 pilots safely landed, without incident, in a suitable paddock, and I think that is the lesson here. They did indeed show greater wisdom. Hope that helps to clarify things for you. Kindest regards, Gary BTW let me correct one part my earlier email. The Specialist is an American – not Australian - work written many years ago by Charles Sale. However the parallels to the Australian experience are unmistakable. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Paul Mander Sent: Thursday, 30 October 2014 1:54 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit I think you’ve been a bit quick to judge. You state that whilst “Jim chose to fly on”, two other pilots made quite routine outlandings 7km back on the track, implying a greater wisdom on their part. Those outlandings were not routine, if you study the traces. They were straight in landings just as was Jim’s. One of them makes a desperate last circle close to the ground then straightens up and lands. There is a striking similarity in all three traces, which paint a cautionary picture. All three picked up climbs just before their last turn, and then appear to consider themselves on final glide. Then they turn into a 20kt headwind from the SW, lose their final glide and start to search for lift. All three try to thermal again without success. All three glide on and the ground rises up to smite them; the other two are simply 7km further out when it does. There are undoubtedly lessons to be learnt from their experience, not the least being how quickly thermals die in Queensland and how quickly the trap can snap. But it’s not instructive, or fair, to make out that one was foolish where others were wise. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Gary Stevenson Sent: Tuesday, 28 October 2014 10:45 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules - in the shit Michael Texler in his post of the evening of 28 Oct, finally “Got It”. Tim has now amplified matters, so that to mis-quote one famous author, “even a schoolboy can understand”. Just a preamble: the point I really want to make is that on that last day when Jim choose to fly on, 2 pilots in Sports Class elected to make quite routine outlandings (into the same paddock apparently), just 7 km from home. As usual their traces are available on Soaring Spot. Names do not need to be mentioned – just look at Sports Class, and then check the outlandings and distances covered to pinpoint the two relevant traces. Tim , you are being a little bit shy in your use of the Oz vernacular. The “Municipal Dunny Man” filled a very valuable and quite unique place in servicing one the essential needs of communities prior to the development of reticulated sewerage systems. So to get the language straight, let me put “shed loads” back into its true blue and dinky di context: “shit-cart full loads”. Further ; For Australian Musical Researchers try Googling “Municipal Dunny Can”. . And of course do not overlook that Australian work of great literary worth titled “The Specialist”. For visual art buffs this work was no doubt part inspiration for the 2006 Oz movie “Kenny”. Cheers, Gary From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Tim Shirley Sent: Tuesday, 28 October 2014 8:39 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Bizarre Comp Rules... Hi all, Once again a disclaimer: I hold no relevant official position with the GFA. I do have considerable experience as a rulemaker, as a Contest Director, as a Scorer, and as a competition pilot. I speak only for myself. What follows is general clarifi
[Aus-soaring] Steal a glider-press
http://www.simcoe.com/news-story/4927454-stolen-glider-recovered-by-grey-opp/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Press
This is a bit comical. https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa=t&url=http://www.goondiwindiargus.com.au/story/2642553/amazing-escape/%3Fcs%3D1451&ct=ga&cd=CAEYACoUMTE4NTMyMzQ5OTQ2Mjc4ODEyMDAyHTZiNzMyZjY2MmIzY2FiM2U6Y29tLmF1OmVuOkFV&usg=AFQjCNGOkDYHpvkZarjgCVD_905ZY7SSHA___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Coroner's "complacency" finding on glider crash
Further http://www.goulburnpost.com.au/story/2600275/fatal-breakdown/?cs=12 From: John GWYTHER (BigPond) Sent: Friday, October 03, 2014 6:28 AM To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Coroner's "complacency" finding on glider crash A wake-up call here - http://www.theage.com.au/national/complacency-amateur-rules-contributed-to-fatal-glider-collision-coroner-finds-20141002-10peab.html John ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Wet glider
http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/man-escapes-qld-glider-crash-unharmed/story-e6frfku9-1227072937716___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Press
http://www.gympietimes.com.au/news/Club-members-set-sail-for-43rd-anniversary/2387556/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Controlling attitude
I very much doubt it.
Re agreement, the word duress or something similar springs to mind.
From: Rob Izatt
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 10:34 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Controlling attitude
But it has everything to do with being a GFA member and the Administrative
Appeals Tribunal would refer you to the GFA rules which you agreed to.
GFA prohibits all forms of harassment discrimination and bullying based on
personal characteristics listed in the Dictionary. Discrimination and
harassment are extremely distressing, offensive, humiliating and/or threatening
and create an uncomfortable and unpleasant environment. In most circumstances
discrimination and harassment are against the law.
Descriptions of some of the types of behaviour which could be regarded as
harassment or discrimination are provided in the Dictionary at clause 11 and
includes offensive, abusive, belittling, intimidating or threatening behaviour,
whether face to face, indirectly or via technologies such as mobile phones or
the internet.
Membership suspension, expulsion, discipline
10) a)
b)
c)
Subject to these rules and other board regulations, if the Board deems a Member
has refused or neglected to comply with the Association's rules or MoSPs, or
has been guilty of conduct unbecoming of a Member, or prejudicial to the
interests of gliding, the Board may, by resolution:
i) fine the Member, or ii) suspend that Member from membership for a specified
time, or iii) expel the Member from the Association, or iv) take all such
action as may be necessary for the proper management of the
affairs of the Association.
On 13/09/2014, at 10:05 AM, Christopher McDonnell wrote:
Rob Izatt said:“Those responsible should be made an example and their
memberships suspended for 12 months - and it should be publicly announced.”
Suspension of membership would mean you could not fly a glider. I have often
wondered what the AAT would think of the removal of flying rights for an
‘offence’ nothing to do with flying.
Chris
From: Rob Izatt
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 9:17 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Controlling attitude
Richard Frawley/Terry Cubley
There was another discussion recently regarding the Member Protection Policy.
If the GFA has not acted yet on this rubbish then that is concrete proof it is
no more than window dressing. Those responsible should be made an example and
their memberships suspended for 12 months - and it should be publicly
announced.
That would send a message. By tacitly allowing this to go unpunished gliding
excludes 50% of the population effectively and condones this behaviour.
Yes this is a private forum but if the comments were made by GFA members then
the GFA must act.
Rob Izatt
On 12/09/2014, at 11:57 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote:
Hi Mark,
Astounding! To me this is an absolutely stunning summary of the current
situation.
I can see why you have nominated not to make further comment – you have
summed it up quite succulently, and there seems little else that can be
meaningfully said by a mere male on this topic at this point in time. [That
cartoon is so brutal and true!] However I wonder if any female member of the
forum would like to make further informed comment?
It would seem that the ONLY thing left to do is to action things. But
what actions? Quite obviously what we are really discussing here is a major
culture change. Usually, in the nature of things, this takes time, almost
always a great deal of time. Can this process be accelerated?
Never the less I find it somewhat heartening that the topic is now here on
Aus- Soaring for discussion.
Terry Cubley, besides being the Aus rep, is now also the Vice-President of
the IGC. I know that Terry is a member of this forum and therefore at least
scans most of the posted material. As I said in an earlier post to Teal, the
problem is worldwide, and it would seem appropriate that Terry is
directed/nicely asked/whatever by the members of this forum – the majority of
whom I assume are GFA members and therefore can somewhat informally make this
request. {Yeah, yeah, yeah , I know the formal process: The GFA member has to
put it to his/her Club Committee, the Club puts it to the State Association
and then the SA puts it to the GFA Board ... No wonder the likes of Mike B
despairs} - to do everything in his power (whatever that is ), to expedite
that cultural change at international level.
Terry, can you please respond to my post?
Regards,
Gary
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mark Newton
Sent: Friday, 12 September 2014 7:10 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Su
Re: [Aus-soaring] Controlling attitude
Rob Izatt said:“Those responsible should be made an example and their
memberships suspended for 12 months - and it should be publicly announced.”
Suspension of membership would mean you could not fly a glider. I have often
wondered what the AAT would think of the removal of flying rights for an
‘offence’ nothing to do with flying.
Chris
From: Rob Izatt
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2014 9:17 AM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Controlling attitude
Richard Frawley/Terry Cubley
There was another discussion recently regarding the Member Protection Policy.
If the GFA has not acted yet on this rubbish then that is concrete proof it is
no more than window dressing. Those responsible should be made an example and
their memberships suspended for 12 months - and it should be publicly
announced.
That would send a message. By tacitly allowing this to go unpunished gliding
excludes 50% of the population effectively and condones this behaviour.
Yes this is a private forum but if the comments were made by GFA members then
the GFA must act.
Rob Izatt
On 12/09/2014, at 11:57 PM, Gary Stevenson wrote:
Hi Mark,
Astounding! To me this is an absolutely stunning summary of the current
situation.
I can see why you have nominated not to make further comment – you have
summed it up quite succulently, and there seems little else that can be
meaningfully said by a mere male on this topic at this point in time. [That
cartoon is so brutal and true!] However I wonder if any female member of the
forum would like to make further informed comment?
It would seem that the ONLY thing left to do is to action things. But
what actions? Quite obviously what we are really discussing here is a major
culture change. Usually, in the nature of things, this takes time, almost
always a great deal of time. Can this process be accelerated?
Never the less I find it somewhat heartening that the topic is now here on
Aus- Soaring for discussion.
Terry Cubley, besides being the Aus rep, is now also the Vice-President of
the IGC. I know that Terry is a member of this forum and therefore at least
scans most of the posted material. As I said in an earlier post to Teal, the
problem is worldwide, and it would seem appropriate that Terry is
directed/nicely asked/whatever by the members of this forum – the majority of
whom I assume are GFA members and therefore can somewhat informally make this
request. {Yeah, yeah, yeah , I know the formal process: The GFA member has to
put it to his/her Club Committee, the Club puts it to the State Association
and then the SA puts it to the GFA Board ... No wonder the likes of Mike B
despairs} - to do everything in his power (whatever that is ), to expedite
that cultural change at international level.
Terry, can you please respond to my post?
Regards,
Gary
From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net
[mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mark Newton
Sent: Friday, 12 September 2014 7:10 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: [Aus-soaring] Controlling attitude
I reckon there will be a bunch of people who’ve read some of the posts on
this mailing list today who’ll be saying, “I don’t see the problem. It’s just a
bit of harmless fun. Doesn’t hurt anybody.”
Guys say that all the time, never realizing that the only reason they're able
to say it is because they’ve typically been utterly indifferent to whether
their fun is, indeed, “harmless,” or whether it has hurt anybody.
I don’t know, perhaps parents of girls have a different view. Perspective
and experience.
The reason it usually passes without mention is because most women, having
put up with it for their entire living memory, are so sick of it that they
can’t be bothered going through the exhausting rigmarole of engaging anymore,
and just remove themselves from situations where it’s a problem; and because
so many men, harboring a cataclysmic failure of empathy, don’t even notice the
reactions of women, and just let it slide without saying anything.
“The secret life of women.”
http://i.imgur.com/OigLS.png
(I know the cartoonist: He told me some of these quotes were provided by his
daughter)
In case you haven’t noticed (and I’m almost certain that some of you actually
haven’t), gliding is almost entirely dominated by men. There’s no physical
reason why that should be the case. There’s also no innate gender-based
difference in skill to explain it either.
I’m going to say it’s cultural: The traditions and attitudes present at
gliding clubs all over Australia are, either overtly (like today’s email
messages) or subtly (like so much of everything else) repulsive to women. I’ve
seen so many women enjoy their AEF, stick with it for a couple of weekends, and
never come back. And thous
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cost, hail damage
From: Rob Izatt Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 11:33 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cost, hail damage As I can attest to "silence' is what allows the bullies and the prejudiced to thrive. Rob Izatt On 12/09/2014, at 11:05 AM, Michael Scutter wrote: I raised the question about possible repair cost and I also thought there might be damage to the leading edges and elsewhere. I whole heatedly agree with Mark, Tim and Scott and no doubt others that were troubled by the replies but silent. I was and am interested to hear from a knowledgeable person about what this sort of damage costs to repair and would it be covered by insurance? I had heard of one airline paying to repair an aircraft, even though the insurer had written it off. The airline decided it was better for their reputation to not have an aircraft destroyed. Perhaps they could then say they had not had a major crash. It might be urban myth? Respectfully Michael On 12 Sep 2014, at 9:51, Scott Penrose wrote: THANK YOU TIM I have been trying to work out what to say. Very VERY disappointed, but appreciate that there are people out there willing to stand up. Thanks Scott On 12 Sep 2014, at 10:18 am, Tim Shirley wrote: There are plenty of examples of stupidity on this list. But this one is simply breathtaking. Sexist, offensive... some might even suggest pornographic. Not something I want in my inbox thanks. And certainly not a positive contribution to inclusive attitudes in our sport. Some subsequent comments are only making it worse. Stop it, please. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 12/09/2014 7:27 AM, Justin Sinclair wrote: Hi Simon, unfortunately that is a Schleicher model, no amount of money short of the GDP of NewZealand will fix it. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Cost, hail damage
From: Rob Izatt Sent: Friday, September 12, 2014 11:31 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Cost, hail damage I'm kinda stunned you ever thought gliding was inclusive Tim. Rob Izatt On 12/09/2014, at 10:18 AM, Tim Shirley wrote: There are plenty of examples of stupidity on this list. But this one is simply breathtaking. Sexist, offensive... some might even suggest pornographic. Not something I want in my inbox thanks. And certainly not a positive contribution to inclusive attitudes in our sport. Some subsequent comments are only making it worse. Stop it, please. Cheers Tim Shirley tra dire é fare c' é mezzo il mare On 12/09/2014 7:27 AM, Justin Sinclair wrote: Hi Simon, unfortunately that is a Schleicher model, no amount of money short of the GDP of NewZealand will fix it. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Mike, other than your issue with nominations to the GFA Board below, I was recently informed that the GFA can comply with Rule 17(i) of the Articles by having an AGM within the numbers of, and only the Board members being present, on the basis that they are members. Other than the fact that GFA has never declared the regions as required by Rule 1. Chris From: Mike Borgelt Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 10:49 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Ullrich, Rob Izatt is correct. "when operating independently" is the catch phrase. Don't forget also that an L2 independent operator rating can fail to be renewed by a club at a whim. If you don't believe that this can't happen due to personal feuds and vendettas or political differences I think you are naive. I know of one club where nearly half the membership was grounded and left the club because they had the temerity to call a special general meeting to get the club to buy its own tug so that the club would own a launch means which it owned instead relying on tugs owned by a syndicate of the old guard which were only intermittently available and were restricting flying. The old guard called up people they knew whose membership had lapsed years ago, signed thm up with a current year's subs and won the vote by 3 votes whereupon the losers were grounded by the club. To get any kind of instructor rating in power you need a commercial licence (at least 150 maybe 200 hours or so depending how and where you do it) and a proper instructor course which involves something like 30 to 40 hours of flying and a similar amount of ground instruction. Don't hold me to that as it was a while ago at the aero club where a couple of blokes were going through that. I'm sure the requirements haven't decreased. Seems a reasonable thing to me. When you talk of discouraging people by raising the instructor hours required the question arises - what problem are we trying to solve with the gliding instruction system? Are we trying to provide free flying for instructors at the students' expense? If so, the system is successful albeit at a fairly horrendous cost in dead and injured students and large numbers of discouraged would glider pilots. If we are trying to turn out competent glider pilots I'd say the system is very inefficient. The pity is that just about everyone (including I'm sure the people who own the private "non profit" organisation known as the GFA)* recognises that gliding is in a fragile state but nobody with the ability to do anything about this wants to change anything about the way business is done. * Mark is wrong about one thing in his other wise excellent post - the GFA is not membership based. Take a look at how to get on the Board. You need nomination by existing Board members. The Board (membership by invitation only) are the effective owners of the GFA and there is NOTHING you or even all the rest of the membership can do about it. The GFA can continue to exist without any members other than those on the board. Which, Ron, is why all you are hearing from the direction of Christopher Thorpe is the sound of crickets. Mike Mike, you are probably referring to the L1 IO rating (which in my opinion should be abolished why should anyone be responsible for my flying unless I am in training). The current MOSP says: 13.2 LEVEL 2 UNRESTRICTED INDEPENDENT OPERATOR Unlike the Level 1 Independent Operator authority, where club responsibility of independent operations is of primary importance, holders of Level 2 Independent Operator authority are solely responsible for all aspects of their operations when operating independently. This includes airways clearances, tower clearances, SAR notification and accident/incident reporting. To my knowledge it has been like that for many years. I agree with you that the minimum hours for instructor ratings seem low but in practice it requires a lot more hours to gain the abilities and convince the CFIs and L3 instructors to give you an L1 let alone L2 rating. What should the minimum be in your opinion? No matter where you set that it will not be enough for some and increasingly discouraging for others the higher that number is. On the rest, including independent control checks for IOs, Im also with you although I would choose less GFA-bashing words. Ulrich From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Tuesday, 2 September 2014 11:07 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes At 11:02 AM 2/09/2014, you wrote: Let's stick to the facts please. A Level 2 Independent Operators Rating does that and with less bureaucracy an
Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 132, Issue 32
I have used it Richard and it just frittered away to nothing with no real result. Chris -Original Message- From: Richard Frawley Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2014 3:05 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 132, Issue 32 Guys, Membership Protection exists as a process in the GFA for good reason. I have witnessed positive results. If you have a grievance or feel you have been treated unfairly, please raise it to the EO, it will be investigated. I have this suspicion that not many people know that it exists, its purpose or the powers that underpin it. Regards Richard At 12:49 AM 3/09/2014, you wrote: Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to aus-soaring-requ...@lists.internode.on.net You can reach the person managing the list at aus-soaring-ow...@lists.internode.on.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes (Mike Borgelt) 2. Re: Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes (Mike Borgelt) -- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2014 14:35:53 +1000 From: Mike Borgelt Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." Message-ID: <83067c$5qe...@ipmail05.adl6.internode.on.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" At 01:24 PM 3/09/2014, you wrote: >In the GFA system, if you hire an aircraft and violate the terms of >your hire, any instructor can, at their option, write a logbook >annotation which grounds you. The grounding takes immediate effect, >and applies to all of your flying nationally, including flying in >other peoples' aircraft, including in aircraft you actually own >yourself. The grounding will probably be maintained until the GFA >MOSP's pilot discipline procedures have run their course, which >could take months. Because logbook annotations cannot be altered or >erased, every club you ever choose to fly with in the future will >always be able to see that you've been grounded when they flip >through the pages of your logbook. > >That's what "dependent on their whims" means in the GFA system. > >- mark It is worse than that. The instructor can ground you for any reason whatsoever. Been there, done that, for writing to the club committee about an "insurance" levy they wanted to impose during the membership year. I was concerned that calling it "insurance" would compromise my own glider insurance and pointed out that the club could, under their Constitution strike a membership levy at any time, just don't call it "insurance". I heard no more. Next time I turned up to fly I was very rudely told by the paid club employee "piss off we don't need your kind around here". Charming. I fronted a committee member about this to be told "oh, but we wrote you a letter about this. It must have got lost in the mail". Lying bastard. I know Mark has another GFA/Club horror story too from the more recent past. We have the law of the land. CASA is charged by parliament with making regulations under the Civil Aviation Act to regulate what is done in civil aviation. Their primary duty to the people of Australia is to protect people on the ground from having aeroplanes fall on them and secondarily to protect people why fly because they wish to be transported from A to B and air is the most reasonable means for them to do so. I don't have any problem with that concept, it is the execution that falls down in the corrupt cesspool of Australian aviation regulation (ask Kingsford Smith and numerous others over the years). I don't even have a problem with the GFA being allowed to regulate how its members operate under a CASA delegation. I do have a problem with CASA and GFA having a cosy little arrangement where GFA has an absolute MONOPOLY and is allowed to prevent any possible competition, particularly when CASA and the Minister have been deliberately mislead by GFA officials. I've written about the 2003 CASA Recreational Licence discussion paper before. Meertens and Hall and Middleton from RAAus went to the Minister (John Anderson) and had the inclusion of gliding and ultralights excised whereupon there wasn't much point in it anymore and the whole thing died. If instead the proposal had been supported we wouldn't be having this discussion. Back in the mid 1990s CAO 95.4 actually made it plain that the exemption from the regulations regarding licensing was only there for those who didn't hold a PPL or higher fligh
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Mark said: 14 years later, nothing has changed. There are other essential non ops/airworthiness things that have never been done in the same timeframe also. My little hobby horse and specialty, won’t bore the list. Chris From: Mark Newton Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 4:06 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes On Sep 2, 2014, at 3:48 PM, Paul Bart wrote: Thank you for a detailed and logical post. Frankly I do not think I would take issue with most points you make. I simply think my personal experience is different. I am not a member of any other flying organisation so I cannot compare. That’s fine, we all come from different backgrounds, and different things are important to all of us. That’s one of the points I was making. For those of us for whom “the freedom of flight” is important in the manner I described, GFA has literally nothing to offer us - indeed, its very existence is an impediment (the CASA GPL would likely be very different if GFA had not been involved in it) The fact is that I do not see that GFA impedes what I want to do, nor what a majority of glider pilots I personally know (a limited sample) do. Does a level 2 instructor impedes my flying, not in the least, do I feel in any way "supervised"? Not in the least. When it is my turn to run the day, do I interfere with any of the solo pilots? No. It’s not a question of interference, that isn’t the point. You cannot take responsibility for rigging a glider, because GFA seems to be saying that its trained certificate holders lack the alacrity to perform that task without someone else looking over their shoulder and countersigning. When you are running a day, you are on an undefined, open-ended legal liability hook for any accidents or injuries they suffer. Could you have prevented an actionable event by preventing a launch? Even if you couldn’t, could an insurance company’s lawyer paint a picture that says you could? You might not even know those other pilots, but you’ve “taken charge” of their operation. Do you know what that means? And anyone who isn’t an instructor should feel “in any way supervised” because that’s what the instructor’s actual job is. Everyone is under supervision. All the time. I don’t know how to describe how oppressive that is for the group of pilots for whom “freedom of flight” is important; how much the knowledge that you can never be so well trained or well skilled that you can be trusted to command your own aircraft can suck the enjoyment out of the sport — When that’s precisely the expectation held by pilots in literally every other aviation discipline I’ve ever come into contact with. I can remember 14 years ago, one of the very first aus-soaring messages I ever read was Mike Borgelt making the entirely reasonable observation that it is impossible for a L2 Independent Operator to legally fly his own self-launching glider out of his own private airfield, because the act of rigging it requires another GFA member to be physically present to countersign the maintenance release. 14 years later, nothing has changed. How is that possible? That renders the entire L2 Independent Operator rating worthless. How pathetic is it that so much time can pass without such an obvious regulatory defect being closed? So the only time I feel as a second-class aviator is when i hook into a 6 kt thermal and I know that Alan Barnes would be doing 8 :). That’s just Imposter Syndrome. Alan Barnes knows Ingo would be doing 12. :) - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
"I don't understand why a few friends can't get gliding licenses, buy a low-performance 2nd hand glider, and winch launch from a paddock somewhere. You don't need to have an instructor present to have fun in a boat or an ultralight. You don't even need to be in a formal club. It'd be as lost-cost and low-effort as you could get." I did that for a decade under CAO 95.4 and it was ‘wunnerful’ Al. Only had to come back under the tattered umbrella because of my move interstate. I do pull my weight regardless of my view of the ‘system’ with several voluntary positions. Chris -Original Message- From: Al Borowski Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 1:44 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Hi Paul, On 02/09/2014, Paul Bart wrote: > > Frankly, I am more interested in maintaining a simple and inexpensive > system to fly gliders in Australia. Given the fragile state of of > participation in gliding I fear that any rise in complexity and / or cost > will simply drive more people away. You say "When our newcomers realise > that they will always be treated as second class aviators we can't blame > them when they vote with their feet." Well I have been involved in gliding > for some fourteen years now, with a reasonably sized club and I am yet to > encounter any pilot being too worried about being classed as "second class > aviator". Maybe I'm just unusual, but that's how I felt under the GFA system. I started off flying at Caboolture with some great people. I then moved to the RAA world and loved the ability to say "Next weekend I'm going for a two hour flight" - which in decent weather was pretty realistic. At Caboolture, at least with my skills, this would be very, very unlikely on most days. After exposure to the RAA I found it ridiculous that, unless I wanted to be a gliding instructor, the GFA insisted I was a student who needed to be supervised forever. Even after getting an L1 independent operator cert for motorgliders (great fun!), a club would still be responsible for my actions. Why should they be? If I do something dumb, it's my fault, not theirs. I don't understand why a few friends can't get gliding licenses, buy a low-performance 2nd hand glider, and winch launch from a paddock somewhere. You don't need to have an instructor present to have fun in a boat or an ultralight. You don't even need to be in a formal club. It'd be as lost-cost and low-effort as you could get. If we had a real CASA issued gliding license I'd knock the dust off my logbook tomorrow. cheers, Al ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Thanks Mark. Best post so far or at least the one that agrees with my thinking. My fit is: For others, emotional reward comes from making contributions. We’re the people who instruct or serve on committees or get airworthiness credentials. For us, the philosophy of the GFA does matter, a bit, because it defines the framework those contributions are made in: It’s unlikely, for instance, that someone will find reward in instructing if they believe GFA’s syllabus provides bad safety outcomes. I migrated across the country and the friends I made in my new club are important to me and are about the only thing that makes me ‘hang on’ in the face of the frustrations I encounter in the areas above. “.but everyone is doing their best and from best intentions.” is beginning to wear a bit thin. Cheers Chris From: Mark Newton Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 12:30 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes On Sep 2, 2014, at 10:50 AM, Paul Bart wrote: You say "When our newcomers realise that they will always be treated as second class aviators we can't blame them when they vote with their feet." Well I have been involved in gliding for some fourteen years now, with a reasonably sized club and I am yet to encounter any pilot being too worried about being classed as "second class aviator”. Hi, I’m Mark. I’m another 14 year glider pilot, just like you. In addition to a GPC with an L2 instructor rating and a D1109 airworthiness cert, I also have an RAAus pilot certificate, and a CASA PPL(A). During my time in the GFA system, I’ve spent 3 years as a club CFI. I know all about GFA’s attitude towards personal responsibility. I’m yet to encounter any other form of aviation in any other jurisdiction where a trained pilot is not considered responsible for their own actions; or where an instructor is expected to assume some kind of poorly defined “responsibility” for what other trained pilots do, simply by virtue of being present at the time of their launch. … except the military, which is, I believe, where the GFA’s system and attitude originates. There was a time when I didn’t care about any of this: I was a GFA member, a glider pilot, and that’s simply the system, take it or leave it. So I totally understand why it doesn’t matter to some (most) glider pilots. But after exposure to the CASA and RAAus systems, my attitude has changed. The Commonwealth of Australia considers me competent to make and be responsible for all my own decisions relating to my operations and the airworthiness of my aircraft. The GFA does not. That paternalism grates. At each membership renewal since I gained my PPL, I’ve thought a little bit harder about whether I’m prepared to accept the GFA’s increasing tendency to centralize, to oversee, to diminish the responsibility that each pilot has to maintain their own safety. I’ve also thought about the responsibility of instructing, and “taking charge” of an operation that can only be influenced, not controlled, and whether that’s something I want to expose myself to. I’m also increasingly of the view that some of that philosophy reduces safety. There are so many things that GFA pilots can convince themselves they never need to worry about because someone else will second-guess the decision for them. My membership is currently overdue. I’m still thinking. Last weekend I was going to fly my RV out to a gliding club to try them on for size, to have an annual check and see if we we’re a good fit for each other, and see if there are any openings in that I might be able to contribute to. I would have renewed my membership to make that happen, but I had a bad night’s sleep on Saturday night and didn’t assess myself as passing an IMSAFE check for that kind of operation, so I stayed home instead. Now I have some more work travel coming up and it’ll probably be at least a month before I get another opportunity, so maybe I’ll keep thinking about whether GFA’s philosophy is compatible with me until October or November. Here’s something that’s important, which I think is frequently lost: Aviation is a technical discipline, but it has a strong emotional dimension as well. We fly because we get some kind of high out of it: We love it, otherwise we wouldn’t put ourselves through the time and money and setbacks and heartache needed to enjoy it. Different people find that emotional response in different ways. For some people, it’s about flying higher or further or faster or longer than anyone else. For those people, the philosophy of the GFA is utterly irrelevant: As long as they can get into a glider, who cares, right? These are the people the GFA serves the best, in my opinion. For others, emotional reward comes from making contributions. We’re the people who instruct or serve on committees or get airworthiness cre
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
-Original Message- From: Future Aviation Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2014 7:38 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Hi Simon You have raised a very valid point here! I have often wondered why one can have all the qualifications in the world but cannot operate a glider in Australia independently and without instructor oversight. As far as I know Australia is the only first world country that denies their glider pilots privileges that power pilots, parachutists, balloonists or other aviators rightly take for granted. Over the years I have discussed this issue with several GFA officials but I have never been given any reason as to why the current state of affairs exists. Gliding operations based on instructor oversight has now been standard GFA procedure for many decades. Therefore it is quite understandable that allowing a competent and responsible glider pilot to operate without oversight has become a bit too foreign to even contemplate. I'm the first to acknowledge that not everyone aspires to independent operations (or even a licence) and I understand that they can continue to fly as usual. However, I firmly believe that denying suitably qualified glider pilots the right to operate without interference by others is partly to blame for our current woes. When our newcomers realise that they will always be treated as second class aviators we can't blame them when they vote with their feet. Isn't it time that suitably qualified glider pilots are treated just like glider pilots in other parts of the world? As long as our current system denies responsibly acting glider pilots fully independent operations many of them will find less restrictive and more rewarding aviation activities - far too many, if you ask me. Simon, can you (and other members of this newsgroup) let me in on your thinking, please? Kind regards Bernard -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Simon Hackett Sent: Monday, 1 September 2014 2:39 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Just want to call out one other thing from the thread that I have just had confirmed separately. The Australian CASA Glider Pilot License doesn't allow a pilot to fly a Glider in Australia. SRSLY? Its 2014. Why can't we live in a place where the GFA issues (or authorises) Glider Pilot Licenses for Australian glider pilots to fly Australian Gliders with (including ... in Australia)? I'm not bothered about an underlying requirement to be a GFA member in good standing (or to be separately authorised by CASA) if that floats the GFA's boat. Rather, I'm talking about the crazy notion that the outcome of doing everything right in the GFA system isn't an outcome where one can be a pilot licensed to fly a glider with a license to fly a glider called a Glider Pilot License - and where such a thing now exists but it doesn't actually work in the country of issue. I actually *have* a US glider license of precisely that form (a US pilots license with 'Glider' as an endorsement on it). I don't see that cramping the style of glider pilots in the USA. Quite the opposite, actually. I'm not really interested in how we got precisely here. I'm interested in what possible reason the GFA would have, today, to *not* to support the notion of a Glider Pilot License as something routinely issued to Australians to let them fly gliders in Australia - and for that to be the thing that people get issued with routinely (when, for instance, they achieve Silver C standard). Is there actually a valid reason for this state of affairs (as opposed to 'thats just not how we roll, son...') why this isn't the case - or why it shouldn't become the case? In other words, if I have a CASA issued Glider Pilot License, what, precisely, makes it unable to be sufficient to be permitted to fly a glider here (assuming one has a valid and current flight review)? I apologise for not having (yet) dug up the shiny new 1st September-onward regulations that govern the Glider Pilot License (and as already noted, CASA haven't yet actually published the application form on their web site either). But do those legally engaged regulations actually say that you can't use a Glider Pilot License to... fly a glider with? Coming at this cold, honestly, this reads like a Monty Python script :) Regards, Simon ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details,
Re: [Aus-soaring] New CASA board
OMG From: Future Aviation Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 4:02 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: [Aus-soaring] New CASA board Congratulations, Anita – your hard work has paid off! According to this news clip recreational aviation has a strong voice now!!! Aviation Business Doug Nancarrow has revealed the names of the last three CASA board members. They are Gliding Federation president Anita Taylor, AMDA board chairman and RAAA board member Ian Smith, and former Qantas engineering and regional airline general manager David Cox, now head of Sydney Uni engineering. Combined with Jeff Boyd, the new-look board boasts a wealth of aviation and managerial experience that should preside over a much improved CASA. Put it this way: if they can't do it then it can't be done, and general aviation in Australia will be a plaque on a plinth in 20 years. Kind regards to all Bernard ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
From: Mike Borgelt Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 9:44 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes At 11:51 PM 28/08/2014, you wrote: I sincerely mean no disrespect to anyone and dont intend to enter into unproductive arguments but since when does what someone says override whats written in a legal document? Chris has already posted here that changes are envisaged. As it stands I cant see how what is actually written in the MOSP matches what you were told, Ross. It is in the unwritten, secret, part of the GFA MOSP :-), Ulrich. "They assume an authority which is nowhere so dangerous as in the hands of those who have folly and presumption enough to fancy themselves fit to exercise it." --Adam Smith Mike Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Hallelujah Hallelujah Halleluujah!
Sorry Jack. I’ll still look after GQG but!
From: Mike Borgelt
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 1:09 PM
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Al,
You need to realise the history.
In the depths of antiquity, God revealed his Plan for Australian Gliding to the
Iggulden brothers and His First Commandment was "Australian Glider pilots shall
have no licences".
Thus it was and has been and shall be for ever and ever. Amen.
Mike
At 12:23 PM 25/08/2014, you wrote:
On 24/08/2014, Ulrich Stauss wrote:
> So whilst the GPC tells me that the pilot has been trained to L1 IO
> standard, the privileges and limitations depend on the log book endorsements
> (not the GPC). I could imagine that for some clubs and CFIs the legal
> liabilities arising from MOSP 2, paragraph 13.1.2
>
> ("The Club of a person exercising Level 1 Independent Operator privileges is
> responsible for that person's operations, even when the person is operating
> independently") may be considered too high a risk exposure in this day and
> age so that they may wish to restrict the privileges by such logbook
> endorsements.
I've never understood the point of this. My driving instructor isn't
responsible for any stupidity on my behalf once I have a car license.
The same goes for a number of other licenses (boat, RAA etc) I hold.
Why is there seemingly no stage in between 'gliding student' and
'gliding instructor'?
Admittedly this only makes a real difference with privately owned
gliders / motorgliders. If you're flying a club glider obviously the
club can impose whatever conditions they want.
Cheers,
Al
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Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
“5. is great to know. I hope the GPL really gets off the ground this time and is not postponed last minute again like last time.” Me too Ulrich. It will be great to not be a ‘last’ world country. From: Ulrich Stauss Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:09 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Hi Chris, Many thanks for the quick reply. However, I am not sure where in my post I was spreading misinformation but please correct me where I am wrong. With regard to your statement 1. The GFA GPC is ICAO compliant. please provide evidence as due diligence in your position would require. The references given in reply to Ron Sanders’ post do not even mention ICAO compliance. E.g. the CASA booklet only says ”… This license may be recognised by foreign aviation authorities for Australian pilots wishing to compete in gliding competitions overseas.” And let me emphasis the word “MAY”. You also state 2. The holder of a GPC is automatically granted L1 Independent Operator status (refer MOSP2, paragraph 10.5). The referenced paragraph says: “… The GPC recognises that the pilot has been trained and tested to the full extent of the GPC training syllabus and is therefore entitled to be approved to operate a glider within the privileges and limitations of the syllabus items as notified by pilot logbook endorsements.” So whilst the GPC tells me that the pilot has been trained to L1 IO standard, the privileges and limitations depend on the log book endorsements (not the GPC). I could imagine that for some clubs and CFIs the legal liabilities arising from MOSP 2, paragraph 13.1.2 (“The Club of a person exercising Level 1 Independent Operator privileges is responsible for that person’s operations, even when the person is operating independently”) may be considered too high a risk exposure in this day and age so that they may wish to restrict the privileges by such logbook endorsements. So I don’t see how you can (more or less publicly) make the above assertion. 3. does not directly answer my question but I take this to mean that overseas pilots will need to obtain a GPC to compete in Australia(?). 5. is great to know. I hope the GPL really gets off the ground this time and is not postponed last minute again like last time. Regards, Ulrich From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Christopher Thorpe Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 18:52 To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes To dispel some of the misinformation written about the GPC: 1. The GFA GPC is ICAO compliant. 2. The holder of a GPC is automatically granted L1 Independent Operator status (refer MOSP2, paragraph 10.5). 3. Foreign pilots can readily convert an overseas issued ICAO compliant licence to the GPC (refer the GFA web site for details). 4. This year, Mal Read (CASA) and I have assisted several Australian pilots convert their GPC to an overseas ICAO licence. Granted this was not necessarily an easy thing to do given the current EASA regulatory environment. 5. When CASR Part 61 comes into force on 1 September 2014, Australian pilots wishing to fly overseas can use their GPC to obtain a CASA Glider Pilot Licence to overcome past difficulties with overseas recognition. Regards Christopher Thorpe Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 433 264 489) M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: e...@glidingaustralia.org | w: www.glidingaustralia.org au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ulrich Stauss Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 11:32 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Picking up from Michael Scutter: Will overseas pilots holding an ICAO compliant (glider) pilots license and an FAI Sporting license still require a GPC to fly in Australian competitions? Perhaps more importantly, do the insurances recognise both the FAI Sporting license and the GPC for their purposes? Or are there provisions in place to recognise the FAI Sporting license as equivalent/superior? If so does this also apply to an Australian pilot holding an FAI Sporting license but not a GPC? (What if this pilot also holds an overseas ICAO compliant (glider) pilots license?) Will the points of a competitor in an Australian National Championship who only holds a GPC but no FAI Sporting license be recognised for the FAI/IGC Pilot Rankings? To my knowledge the GPC is not ICAO compliant nor recognised anywhere overseas. I guess that will
Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes
Well, what will be needed re paperwork to fly a glider out from under the umbrella in the rain? From: Christopher Thorpe Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 9:13 PM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Ron Refer to CASR 61 http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2014C00046: 61.1510 Privileges of glider pilot licences 61.1520 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot licences—recent experience 61.1525 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot licences—flight review 61.1530 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot licences—medical certificates 61.1535 Limitations on exercise of privileges of glider pilot licences—carriage of documents For what it’s worth, a CASA GPL only exists to assist GFA members wanting to have their Australian qualifications recognised overseas. It will not allow a person to fly gliders in Australia outside the umbrella of the GFA. Regards Christopher Thorpe Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 433 264 489) M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: e...@glidingaustralia.org | w: www.glidingaustralia.org au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 8:59 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Thank you. In the references listed I can not find the privileges and responsibilities of the CASA GPL?? ron On 24 August 2014 18:51, Christopher Thorpe wrote: Ron The GFA GPC is compliant in that it meets the standards specified in Annex 1 to the Convention on International Civil Aviation. The regulatory authority is in Civil Aviation Safety Regulations 1998, subparagraphs 61.1540 (2)(a),(b),& (c). CASA has produced a guidance booklet at: http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100191/part61booklet.pdf For further guidance, go to: http://www.casa.gov.au/licensingregs CASA has informed me that an applicant for a GPL will need to present their GPC and identification documents, and then meet the following requirements: • CASA Medical • FROL; • Security Check; and • English Language Proficiency Assessment; Glider pilots already holding a CASA Licence will generally only need to evidence holding a GPC and a current CASA medical. Regards Christopher Thorpe Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 433 264 489) M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: e...@glidingaustralia.org | w: www.glidingaustralia.org au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ron Sanders Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 8:00 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Competition licenses - the emperor has no clothes Dear Chris, Could you please explain the legislative background which makes the GPC right now as is, ICAO compliant? However, on September 2, I wish to convert my GPC into a CASA Glider Pilot License, can you please tell me how to do this? Ron Sanders On 24 August 2014 17:21, Christopher Thorpe wrote: To dispel some of the misinformation written about the GPC: 1. The GFA GPC is ICAO compliant. 2. The holder of a GPC is automatically granted L1 Independent Operator status (refer MOSP2, paragraph 10.5). 3. Foreign pilots can readily convert an overseas issued ICAO compliant licence to the GPC (refer the GFA web site for details). 4. This year, Mal Read (CASA) and I have assisted several Australian pilots convert their GPC to an overseas ICAO licence. Granted this was not necessarily an easy thing to do given the current EASA regulatory environment. 5. When CASR Part 61 comes into force on 1 September 2014, Australian pilots wishing to fly overseas can use their GPC to obtain a CASA Glider Pilot Licence to overcome past difficulties with overseas recognition. Regards Christopher Thorpe Executive Manager, Operations | Gliding Federation of Australia (ABN 82 433 264 489) M: +61 4 1447 6151 | E: e...@glidingaustralia.org | w: www.glidingaustralia.org au.linkedin.com/pub/christopher-thorpe/25/2b8/b4b/ From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Ulrich Stauss Sent: Sunday, 24 August 2014 11:32 AM To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Subject: Re: [
[Aus-soaring] Fw: Painting glider
Marketing sent to me. Oz is a long way from Poland. Did anybody else get it? -Original Message- From: Barbara Wajdzik Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 8:13 PM To: wommamuku...@bigpond.com Subject: Painting glider Dear Client, We are a company dedicated to painting gliders and we have several years of experience in aviation. For many years, we carry out painting gliders, motor gliders and ultralight aircraft. We invite you to familiarize yourself with our offer. Our offer: Painting of new and used gliders Renewal gliders- finish poler Preparation for competitions gliders Designing and painting signs collision Painting registration marks and competition Bonding sealing tapes Painting cockpit Altering and painting instrument panel Painting the engine compartment paint anti fire Bonding new upholstery Glue the new pictogram and information plates in the cockpit Replacement glazing Stabilize the glider Determining the center of gravity We prepare an individual offer for each customer for the type of glider. More than this we have specials depending on the age of the glider and the season. Benefits Perfectly repainted glider. We have seasonal promotions and given the age of the glider. The customer receives all the necessary documents. They exercise additional services such as repainting the cockpit, etc. To learn more about us, please feel welcome to visit our website . http://www.pg-promyk.com/ Like us on facebook https://www.facebook.com/pgpromyk Best Regards Barbara Wajdzik PG Promyk Painting Glider Promyk is not just a job but it's our passion. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] General Manager Role
General Manager RoleRecreational aviation’s seemingly forever rocky road. From: Mal Bruce Sent: Friday, August 08, 2014 11:18 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] General Manager Role Your Feedback Is Valued - feedb...@saaa.com View this email in your browser Dear Members, This is to advise that Mr Mark Rowe’s tenure as General Manager has been terminated and he is no longer employed by SAAA. We do not wish to prejudice any possible outcomes on this matter. From a legal standpoint are unable to disclose further details, and ask for the members understanding on this. Yours Sincerely Jarrod Clowes Phil Hale SAAA Hon. National President SAAA Hon. National Secretary presid...@saaa.com s...@saaa.com Copyright © 2014 SAAA, All rights reserved. SAAA Member Our mailing address is: SAAA PO Box 99 Narromine, NSW 2821 Australia Add us to your address book unsubscribe from this listupdate subscription preferences ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Bale out pilots interview.
Not splattered but nearly minced http://www.mkweb.co.uk/News/GALLERY-Milton-Keynes-glider-pilot-Andrew-Preston-jumps-for-his-life-after-mid-air-crash-2014080520.htm___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] WGC Leszno Poland
‘'Pubic page” ? What else will you see From: Peter Champness Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 9:53 PM To: Mandy Temple ; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] WGC Leszno Poland Hey, What about a mention of Steve Jinks as Team Coach On Sat, Aug 2, 2014 at 7:33 PM, Mandy Temple wrote: In case you haven’t already found it the Australian Team in Leszno Poland are blogging on Facebook; https://www.facebook.com/AUglidingteam this is a pubic page so you do not need a FB account to see it. The Australian pilots are; Tom Claffey and Ben Loxton in 18m and Craig Collings and Matthew Scutter in 15m with Marta Najfled as Team Captain The competition site with tracking links and results is at; http://www.wgc2014.hb.pl/ The US team at; http://ussoaringteam2014leszno.blogspot.de/ have links to other team sites. Mandy CSC ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] baleout-lots more pics
Great its still running warm though Phil. An experience I never want. From: Phillip Brown Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2014 7:21 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] baleout-lots more pics You were my first thought Phil when I saw them. On 2 August 2014 18:11, Philip Eldridge wrote: Well, that brings back some horrible memories. My blood ran cold when I looked at those pics. Phil Eldridge ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- Phil ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] baleout-lots more pics
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2713010/The-amazing-moment-glider-pilot-bail-aircraft-parachute-safety-wing-fell-dramatic-mid-air-collision.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
