Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
And my brother and I have only just finished fixing up the old patrol for me to drive. And it's diesel. Dion Baker 2008/5/13 stuart smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Interestingly, I am in Singapore right now (isn't that where our price for Crude oil is set) and I am looking at a Shell station with unleaded at SG$2.01 and diesel at SG$1.58. In real terms the unleaded is about AUD$1.66 and diesel is AUD$1.30. If only I could buy diesel at that price for my new turbo diesel that I got last week. Stuart - Original Message - From: Tim Shirley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option Here we go again. The most popular single topic on this list in 2007 was about tow cars. The best way to lower your fuel consumption is to stay in the air. :-) Tim Dennis Hipperson wrote: Of course you could also use LPG. Robert your C5 using 6Lt/100Km would cost you $9.88 /100Km in Melbourne with the current fuel price of $1.64Lt My 4lt Falcon on LPG uses 12.5 Lt/100km costing $7.61/100Km with the current price of 60.9cLt. Dennis http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/retail/diesel/national.htm Robert Hart wrote: Jim Staniforth wrote: What is the current price of diesel versus mogas in Australia? In the US, the fuel companies have figured out that they can charge more for diesel than even premium gasoline. For example, at the moment I'm in Las Vegas where regular mogas is about $3.65US per US gallon, premium mogas around $3.90, and diesel $4.35. These figures are $.25 or so less than at home in California. Truckers and those who paid extra for diesel vehicles are furious, as we all know diesel fuel is more easily produced. It's a matter of time before this daylight robbery happens in Australia, if it hasn't already. If so, this throws the economic advantage of diesel out the window and all you're left with is a bad smell. Not quite true. Yes, here in Aus we have diesel prices that are about 15-25c higher than petrol. but (at least in my 2.0 litre turbo diesel Citroen C5) I am still saving money compared to the Mazda Tribute (2.6 litre, petrol), despite that higher price. Towing Alice in her trailer on the highway I average about 8 litres/100km (without the trailer I get 6 litres/100km) whereas with the Mazda I got about 10 litres/100km (no trailer) and 13 litres/100km (with trailer). Having experienced the fuel consumption (yet still sporty performance) of these engines in a hire car in Europe, this was a major determinant for me when I switched cars last year. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- timmo you know what i hate timmo errors that wont go away Guilty So you dislike children too ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
A while back I got to listen to a spiel from a company looking at adding hydrous ethanol to diesel. Worked a treat and tests confirmed it on large mining equipment and trains. Never heard of since ;-) The argument presented was that the worst place to add ethanol was in gasoline as it increased the surplus of gasoline on the market. Apparently the chief determinant on crude oil refining is the diesel market requirement, the amount of gasoline produced is driven by the amount of diesel required and as a result the gasoline is always in surplus. Hence you see gasoline discounted but never see diesel discounted. Sounded convincing at the time... Cheers Don Jim Staniforth wrote: What is the current price of diesel versus mogas in Australia? In the US, the fuel companies have figured out that they can charge more for diesel than even premium gasoline. For example, at the moment I'm in Las Vegas where regular mogas is about $3.65US per US gallon, premium mogas around $3.90, and diesel $4.35. These figures are $.25 or so less than at home in California. Truckers and those who paid extra for diesel vehicles are furious, as we all know diesel fuel is more easily produced. It's a matter of time before this daylight robbery happens in Australia, if it hasn't already. If so, this throws the economic advantage of diesel out the window and all you're left with is a bad smell. Besides that I like the sound of the LS-1 V-8. Not quite as sexy as the Rolls-Royce Merlin running flat out, but who can afford one of those? Jim Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51733/*http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ%20 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
Jim Staniforth wrote: What is the current price of diesel versus mogas in Australia? In the US, the fuel companies have figured out that they can charge more for diesel than even premium gasoline. For example, at the moment I'm in Las Vegas where regular mogas is about $3.65US per US gallon, premium mogas around $3.90, and diesel $4.35. These figures are $.25 or so less than at home in California. Truckers and those who paid extra for diesel vehicles are furious, as we all know diesel fuel is more easily produced. It's a matter of time before this daylight robbery happens in Australia, if it hasn't already. If so, this throws the economic advantage of diesel out the window and all you're left with is a bad smell. Not quite true. Yes, here in Aus we have diesel prices that are about 15-25c higher than petrol. but (at least in my 2.0 litre turbo diesel Citroen C5) I am still saving money compared to the Mazda Tribute (2.6 litre, petrol), despite that higher price. Towing Alice in her trailer on the highway I average about 8 litres/100km (without the trailer I get 6 litres/100km) whereas with the Mazda I got about 10 litres/100km (no trailer) and 13 litres/100km (with trailer). Having experienced the fuel consumption (yet still sporty performance) of these engines in a hire car in Europe, this was a major determinant for me when I switched cars last year. -- Robert Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] +61 (0)438 385 533 http://www.hart.wattle.id.au ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
Can someone please remind me of the advantages of ethanol in fuel? It strikes me that setting up competitive tension between the world's fuel supply and the world's food supply seems like a bad idea, but maybe the advantages outweigh the costs...? - mark On 12/05/2008, at 3:55 PM, Don Ingram wrote: A while back I got to listen to a spiel from a company looking at adding hydrous ethanol to diesel. Worked a treat and tests confirmed it on large mining equipment and trains. Never heard of since ;-) The argument presented was that the worst place to add ethanol was in gasoline as it increased the surplus of gasoline on the market. Apparently the chief determinant on crude oil refining is the diesel market requirement, the amount of gasoline produced is driven by the amount of diesel required and as a result the gasoline is always in surplus. Hence you see gasoline discounted but never see diesel discounted. Sounded convincing at the time... I tried an internal modem,[EMAIL PROTECTED] but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton - Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82231777 - ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
I think the argument went something like: 1. Oil is getting more expensive 2. We can make ethanol from corn, etc cheaper than we can refine gasoline from oil 3. Value of ethanol is higher than raw value of corm for food 4. lets produce lots of Ethanol and make a bigger profit than refining gasoline or growing corn for food 5. Producing food is someone else's problem ! 6. Our financial responsibility is to our share holders 7. We don't have share holders anywhere we might have a negative effect 8. Those we might have a negative effect on won't but our ethanol - it costs too much Argument ends. On 12/05/2008, at 17:03 , Mark Newton wrote: Can someone please remind me of the advantages of ethanol in fuel? It strikes me that setting up competitive tension between the world's fuel supply and the world's food supply seems like a bad idea, but maybe the advantages outweigh the costs...? - mark On 12/05/2008, at 3:55 PM, Don Ingram wrote: A while back I got to listen to a spiel from a company looking at adding hydrous ethanol to diesel. Worked a treat and tests confirmed it on large mining equipment and trains. Never heard of since ;-) The argument presented was that the worst place to add ethanol was in gasoline as it increased the surplus of gasoline on the market. Apparently the chief determinant on crude oil refining is the diesel market requirement, the amount of gasoline produced is driven by the amount of diesel required and as a result the gasoline is always in surplus. Hence you see gasoline discounted but never see diesel discounted. Sounded convincing at the time... I tried an internal modem,[EMAIL PROTECTED] but it hurt when I walked. Mark Newton - Voice: +61-4-1620-2223 - Fax: +61-8-82231777 - ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
Of course you could also use LPG. Robert your C5 using 6Lt/100Km would cost you $9.88 /100Km in Melbourne with the current fuel price of $1.64Lt My 4lt Falcon on LPG uses 12.5 Lt/100km costing $7.61/100Km with the current price of 60.9cLt. Dennis http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/retail/diesel/national.htm Robert Hart wrote: Jim Staniforth wrote: What is the current price of diesel versus mogas in Australia? In the US, the fuel companies have figured out that they can charge more for diesel than even premium gasoline. For example, at the moment I'm in Las Vegas where regular mogas is about $3.65US per US gallon, premium mogas around $3.90, and diesel $4.35. These figures are $.25 or so less than at home in California. Truckers and those who paid extra for diesel vehicles are furious, as we all know diesel fuel is more easily produced. It's a matter of time before this daylight robbery happens in Australia, if it hasn't already. If so, this throws the economic advantage of diesel out the window and all you're left with is a bad smell. Not quite true. Yes, here in Aus we have diesel prices that are about 15-25c higher than petrol. but (at least in my 2.0 litre turbo diesel Citroen C5) I am still saving money compared to the Mazda Tribute (2.6 litre, petrol), despite that higher price. Towing Alice in her trailer on the highway I average about 8 litres/100km (without the trailer I get 6 litres/100km) whereas with the Mazda I got about 10 litres/100km (no trailer) and 13 litres/100km (with trailer). Having experienced the fuel consumption (yet still sporty performance) of these engines in a hire car in Europe, this was a major determinant for me when I switched cars last year. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
Here we go again. The most popular single topic on this list in 2007 was about tow cars. The best way to lower your fuel consumption is to stay in the air. :-) Tim Dennis Hipperson wrote: Of course you could also use LPG. Robert your C5 using 6Lt/100Km would cost you $9.88 /100Km in Melbourne with the current fuel price of $1.64Lt My 4lt Falcon on LPG uses 12.5 Lt/100km costing $7.61/100Km with the current price of 60.9cLt. Dennis http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/retail/diesel/national.htm Robert Hart wrote: Jim Staniforth wrote: What is the current price of diesel versus mogas in Australia? In the US, the fuel companies have figured out that they can charge more for diesel than even premium gasoline. For example, at the moment I'm in Las Vegas where regular mogas is about $3.65US per US gallon, premium mogas around $3.90, and diesel $4.35. These figures are $.25 or so less than at home in California. Truckers and those who paid extra for diesel vehicles are furious, as we all know diesel fuel is more easily produced. It's a matter of time before this daylight robbery happens in Australia, if it hasn't already. If so, this throws the economic advantage of diesel out the window and all you're left with is a bad smell. Not quite true. Yes, here in Aus we have diesel prices that are about 15-25c higher than petrol. but (at least in my 2.0 litre turbo diesel Citroen C5) I am still saving money compared to the Mazda Tribute (2.6 litre, petrol), despite that higher price. Towing Alice in her trailer on the highway I average about 8 litres/100km (without the trailer I get 6 litres/100km) whereas with the Mazda I got about 10 litres/100km (no trailer) and 13 litres/100km (with trailer). Having experienced the fuel consumption (yet still sporty performance) of these engines in a hire car in Europe, this was a major determinant for me when I switched cars last year. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
Interestingly, I am in Singapore right now (isn't that where our price for Crude oil is set) and I am looking at a Shell station with unleaded at SG$2.01 and diesel at SG$1.58. In real terms the unleaded is about AUD$1.66 and diesel is AUD$1.30. If only I could buy diesel at that price for my new turbo diesel that I got last week. Stuart - Original Message - From: Tim Shirley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:18 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option Here we go again. The most popular single topic on this list in 2007 was about tow cars. The best way to lower your fuel consumption is to stay in the air. :-) Tim Dennis Hipperson wrote: Of course you could also use LPG. Robert your C5 using 6Lt/100Km would cost you $9.88 /100Km in Melbourne with the current fuel price of $1.64Lt My 4lt Falcon on LPG uses 12.5 Lt/100km costing $7.61/100Km with the current price of 60.9cLt. Dennis http://www.aip.com.au/pricing/retail/diesel/national.htm Robert Hart wrote: Jim Staniforth wrote: What is the current price of diesel versus mogas in Australia? In the US, the fuel companies have figured out that they can charge more for diesel than even premium gasoline. For example, at the moment I'm in Las Vegas where regular mogas is about $3.65US per US gallon, premium mogas around $3.90, and diesel $4.35. These figures are $.25 or so less than at home in California. Truckers and those who paid extra for diesel vehicles are furious, as we all know diesel fuel is more easily produced. It's a matter of time before this daylight robbery happens in Australia, if it hasn't already. If so, this throws the economic advantage of diesel out the window and all you're left with is a bad smell. Not quite true. Yes, here in Aus we have diesel prices that are about 15-25c higher than petrol. but (at least in my 2.0 litre turbo diesel Citroen C5) I am still saving money compared to the Mazda Tribute (2.6 litre, petrol), despite that higher price. Towing Alice in her trailer on the highway I average about 8 litres/100km (without the trailer I get 6 litres/100km) whereas with the Mazda I got about 10 litres/100km (no trailer) and 13 litres/100km (with trailer). Having experienced the fuel consumption (yet still sporty performance) of these engines in a hire car in Europe, this was a major determinant for me when I switched cars last year. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
Hi Peter It is unlikely to be cheaper to buy, or run, than an LS1 V8 - replacement cost A$6,000. Cheers Michael -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 10 May 2008 12:59 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option Centurion have a diesel/jet A engine available and EASA certified for replacement in the Cessna 206. It is rated at upto 350 hp with some derate for contnuous operations I wonder what this would be like with a fixed pitch prop and retrofitted in a pawnee. Business case would be interesting. Peter Heath ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
I frequently came across that logic in my last job. Would you be willing to spend $500k on software for an independently proven saving of $5m over 3 years - it is staggering how many companies aren't. In this case, although the engine price would clearly be less for the LS1, this is a tiny part of the running costs over the 2000 hour life. Fuel is the biggest cost by far, and diesel has a proven 30-35% efficiency gain, so the savings get better as fuel prices rise. Savings today in fuel costs over 2000 hours for a diesel should be about $70,000. Saving is about $4,000 for every 10c rise in fuel prices, and I expect we will see prices rise another 25-50c this year. Costs are at the stage that an engine manufacturer offering a free engine for using their fuel is an interesting idea ! However, the LS1 is a far better option than continuing with the Lycoming ! On 12/05/2008, at 11:47 , Michael Shirley wrote: Hi Peter It is unlikely to be cheaper to buy, or run, than an LS1 V8 - replacement cost A$6,000. Cheers Michael -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 10 May 2008 12:59 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option Centurion have a diesel/jet A engine available and EASA certified for replacement in the Cessna 206. It is rated at upto 350 hp with some derate for contnuous operations I wonder what this would be like with a fixed pitch prop and retrofitted in a pawnee. Business case would be interesting. Peter Heath ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
What is the current price of diesel versus mogas in Australia? In the US, the fuel companies have figured out that they can charge more for diesel than even premium gasoline. For example, at the moment I'm in Las Vegas where regular mogas is about $3.65US per US gallon, premium mogas around $3.90, and diesel $4.35. These figures are $.25 or so less than at home in California. Truckers and those who paid extra for diesel vehicles are furious, as we all know diesel fuel is more easily produced. It's a matter of time before this daylight robbery happens in Australia, if it hasn't already. If so, this throws the economic advantage of diesel out the window and all you're left with is a bad smell. Besides that I like the sound of the LS-1 V-8. Not quite as sexy as the Rolls-Royce Merlin running flat out, but who can afford one of those? Jim - Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
Peter, The German manufacturers of the Centurion diesel aero engine, Thielert, have just gone into liquidation with little chance of starting up again. Their smaller engines are used in the Diamond aircraft etc. John ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 10/05/2008 1:08:14 PM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option Centurion have a diesel/jet A engine available and EASA certified for replacement in the Cessna 206. It is rated at upto 350 hp with some derate for contnuous operations I wonder what this would be like with a fixed pitch prop and retrofitted in a pawnee. Business case would be interesting. Peter Heath ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.14/1425 - Release Date: 9/05/2008 12:38 PM . faint_grain.jpgIMSTP9.gif___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] RE pawnee engine option
Centurion have a diesel/jet A engine available and EASA certified for replacement in the Cessna 206. It is rated at upto 350 hp with some derate for contnuous operations I wonder what this would be like with a fixed pitch prop and retrofitted in a pawnee. Business case would be interesting. Peter Heath ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
