Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
Whilst I did not want to contribute further to the noise I do think referring to the discussions around this as Social Justice Warrior Virtue Signalling generally disturbing. Regardless of this being the right or wrong place to discuss the topic, some of the responses detract from the importance of such discussion, the fact that it needs to be mentioned at all just shows how far we’ve still got to go not only in our industry but as a society in general. Maybe somebody can post some BGP Summaries so that some people can feel more comfortable Kind Regards, Jim. From: AusNOG On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins Sent: Thursday, 4 October 2018 11:26 AM To: ausnog@lists.ausnog.net Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. Preventing women being harassed at public conventions and stopping for red traffic lights. Both are the same nanny state obtruding pesky value signaling into the stream of social intercourse. Do like I do, and drive straight through. Someone needs to stop the madness. Kind regards <https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif> Paul Wilkins On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 at 07:32, Burt Mascareigne mailto:b...@stormnetwork.com.au> > wrote: Can we get a STOP THREAD enforced please I’m getting tired of seeing SJW Virtue Signalling, I rather read the BGP Summary reports in line by line detail and verification. ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net <mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
Preventing women being harassed at public conventions and stopping for red traffic lights. Both are the same nanny state obtruding pesky value signaling into the stream of social intercourse. Do like I do, and drive straight through. Someone needs to stop the madness. Kind regards Paul Wilkins On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 at 07:32, Burt Mascareigne wrote: > Can we get a STOP THREAD enforced please > > > > I’m getting tired of seeing SJW Virtue Signalling, I rather read the BGP > Summary reports in line by line detail and verification. > ___ > AusNOG mailing list > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
Can we get a STOP THREAD enforced please I’m getting tired of seeing SJW Virtue Signalling, I rather read the BGP Summary reports in line by line detail and verification. ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
company’ then it >> should also be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo >> being used as a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a >> shread of proof. >> >> >> >> I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that >> proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was >> suggested at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the **Alleged** >> (I use this term deliberately as until it is proof we have due process – >> innocent until PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that >> are before the courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be >> established and only then actioned upon. >> >> >> >> Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all… >> >> >> >> James Troy >> >> Senior Systems Administration >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AusNOG *On Behalf Of *dusty >> *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM >> *To:* Matthew Young >> *Cc:* aus...@ausnog.net List >> >> >> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young wrote: >> >> “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on >> the Ausnog board.” >> >> People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their >> gender. >> >> >> >> Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll >> show you a deluded patriarchal fool. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Paul >> Wilkins >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM >> *To:* aus...@ausnog.net List >> *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. >> >> >> >> "Seems you've never been to a meeting." >> >> >> >> The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. >> >> >> >> Kind regards >> >> >> Paul Wilkins >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith wrote: >> >> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins >> wrote: >> > >> > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. >> > >> > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on >> the Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and >> they're all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. >> > >> >> Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing >> session. >> >> >> >> > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise >> to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. >> > >> > Kind regards >> > >> > Paul Wilkins >> > >> > >> > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our >> attention. >> >> >> >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature >> very seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an >> attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of >> all parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance >> to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. >> >> >> >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events >> have never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and >> supported. We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other >> organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable >> for AusNOG events and mailing lists. >> >> >> >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not >> acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We >> will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader >> solution. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board >> >> ... >> >> ___ >> >> AusNOG mailing list >> >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net >> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >> > >> > ___ >> > AusNOG mailing list >> > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net >> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >> >> ___ >> AusNOG mailing list >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >> >> ___ > AusNOG mailing list > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > ___ > AusNOG mailing list > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
I never defined merit as being able to configure BGP. Merit is whatever is applicable for the role they’re performing. Regardless of their gender, they should be picked on that and that alone. I know a lot of women who would be offended to be chosen based purely because they’re a woman. It’s counter-productive and sexist in its own right. From: John Edwards [mailto:jaedwa...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 2:04 PM To: Matthew Young Cc: aus...@ausnog.net Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. I think that you need to be careful defining "merit" for an organisation who's primary functions are to run a conference and mailing list. Just because all of the past and present Ausnog directors can configure BGP with the best of them doesn't automatically qualify them to sit on a board and have the best knowledge to put together a conference. Professional conference organisations are an excellent example of equality in gender numbers. It's one of the only occupations where you will see young women assertively telling Fortune 500 CEO's what to do. Most of us white males in Ausnog have had the luxury of a choice of visible white males as role models during the last 20 years of this industry existing, something that is an exception for women. I have been fortunate to work alongside a number of talented women in the industry, and the thing that stands out most is a lack of tech-ego that usually drives their male counterparts. I would like to see more of this. The Ausnog board have done an excellent job so far, and I don't think any of us have been able to find fault in what has been achieved. That doesn't mean it can't do better. Bevan is obviously supporting women in his organisation, so perhaps Superloop can recommend one of its staff to be considered for a board position. John On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 11:29, Matthew Young mailto:m...@mattyoung.net.au>> wrote: “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board.” People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their gender. From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net<mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM To: aus...@ausnog.net<mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> List mailto:aus...@ausnog.net>> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. "Seems you've never been to a meeting." The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. Kind regards [https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif] Paul Wilkins On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith mailto:markzzzsm...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins mailto:paulwilkins...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all > men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing session. > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an > unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. > > Kind regards > > Paul Wilkins > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes > mailto:da...@hughes.com.au>> wrote: >> >> >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our >> attention. >> >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very >> seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an >> attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of all >> parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance to >> the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. >> >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events have >> never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and supported. >> We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other >> organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable >> for AusNOG events and mailing lists. >> >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not >> acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We >> will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader >> solution. >> >> >> >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board >> ... >> ___ >> AusNOG mailing list >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net<mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/list
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
I think that you need to be careful defining "merit" for an organisation who's primary functions are to run a conference and mailing list. Just because all of the past and present Ausnog directors can configure BGP with the best of them doesn't automatically qualify them to sit on a board and have the best knowledge to put together a conference. Professional conference organisations are an excellent example of equality in gender numbers. It's one of the only occupations where you will see young women assertively telling Fortune 500 CEO's what to do. Most of us white males in Ausnog have had the luxury of a choice of visible white males as role models during the last 20 years of this industry existing, something that is an exception for women. I have been fortunate to work alongside a number of talented women in the industry, and the thing that stands out most is a lack of tech-ego that usually drives their male counterparts. I would like to see more of this. The Ausnog board have done an excellent job so far, and I don't think any of us have been able to find fault in what has been achieved. That doesn't mean it can't do better. Bevan is obviously supporting women in his organisation, so perhaps Superloop can recommend one of its staff to be considered for a board position. John On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 11:29, Matthew Young wrote: > “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board.” > > > > People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their > gender. > > > > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Paul > Wilkins > *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM > *To:* aus...@ausnog.net List > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. > > > > "Seems you've never been to a meeting." > > > > The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. > > > > Kind regards > > > Paul Wilkins > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins > wrote: > > > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're > all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > > > > Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing > session. > > > > > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise > to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. > > > > Kind regards > > > > Paul Wilkins > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes wrote: > >> > >> > >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our > attention. > >> > >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature > very seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an > attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of > all parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance > to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. > >> > >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events > have never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and > supported. We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other > organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable > for AusNOG events and mailing lists. > >> > >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not > acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We > will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader > solution. > >> > >> > >> > >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board > >> ... > >> ___ > >> AusNOG mailing list > >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > > > ___ > > AusNOG mailing list > > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > ___ > AusNOG mailing list > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
until it is proof we have due process – innocent until >> PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that are before the >> courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be established and only >> then actioned upon. >> >> >> >> Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all… >> >> >> >> James Troy >> >> Senior Systems Administration >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: AusNOG > <mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net>> On Behalf Of dusty >> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM >> To: Matthew Young mailto:m...@mattyoung.net.au>> >> Cc: aus...@ausnog.net <mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> List > <mailto:aus...@ausnog.net>> >> >> >> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young > <mailto:m...@mattyoung.net.au>> wrote: >> >> “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the >> Ausnog board.” >> >> People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their gender. >> >> >> >> Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll show >> you a deluded patriarchal fool. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net >> <mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins >> Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM >> To: aus...@ausnog.net <mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> List > <mailto:aus...@ausnog.net>> >> Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. >> >> >> >> "Seems you've never been to a meeting." >> >> >> >> The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. >> >> >> >> Kind regards >> >> >> >> >> Paul Wilkins >> >> >> >> >> >> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith > <mailto:markzzzsm...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> >> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins > <mailto:paulwilkins...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > >> > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. >> > >> > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the >> > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're >> > all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. >> > >> >> Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing session. >> >> >> >> > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to >> > an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. >> > >> > Kind regards >> > >> > Paul Wilkins >> > >> > >> > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes > > <mailto:da...@hughes.com.au>> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our >> >> attention. >> >> >> >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature >> >> very seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in >> >> an attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality >> >> of all parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer >> >> assistance to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter >> >> further. >> >> >> >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events >> >> have never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and >> >> supported. We have commenced a review of policies and processes from >> >> other organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy >> >> suitable for AusNOG events and mailing lists. >> >> >> >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not >> >> acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We >> >> will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader >> >> solution. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board >> >> ... >> >> ___ >> >> AusNOG mailing list >> >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net <mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net> >> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >> >> <http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog> >> > >> > ___ >> > AusNOG mailing list >> > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net <mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net> >> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >> > <http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog> >> ___ >> AusNOG mailing list >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net <mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >> <http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog>___ >> AusNOG mailing list >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net <mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >> <http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog> > ___ > AusNOG mailing list > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
+1 to this. This thread has well and truly reached the end of it’s useful life, and a number of people have achieved absolutely nothing with their unprofessional bickering and ad-hominem attacks on each other (among other numerous logical fallacies present). Some of the conduct shown within this thread is completely disgraceful. To the lurkers coming out of the woodwork - let the operators operate, attack each other somewhere else. - Jacob From: AusNOG On Behalf Of andrew khoo Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 11:13 AM To: aus...@ausnog.net (ausnog@lists.ausnog.net) Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. can we all please fork these discussions into a separate thread or list? regardless of validity or virtue or other discussions, there ARE a few of us folk that still want to use this list for operational purposes. On October 3, 2018 at 1:09 PM, dusty (dusty...@gmail.com <mailto:dusty...@gmail.com> ) wrote: “Merit-based selection” False equivalences #metoo denialism (ohnoes won’t someone think of the poor menfolk??) “Virtue signalling” Anyone else hit redpill bingo from this email alone? On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 15:58, James Troy mailto:james.t...@agilityapplications.com> > wrote: Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that is often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this thread with a particular keen interest. Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender diversity’ was going to get pushed. Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable. Yes IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you start to include someone in something like a board selection based solely on their genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy subscribe to the idea of the ‘best person for the job’ If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all selected on their merits. Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely different can. Ie: is there someone of Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow wouldn’t that be racist? Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable. I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go to be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender, percentages, inclusion policies is _not_ the way to get the recognition that some hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated industry (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected for something like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – not simply to be the token male. We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our colleagues when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that if an accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it should also be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo being used as a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a shread of proof. I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was suggested at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the *Alleged* (I use this term deliberately as until it is proof we have due process – innocent until PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that are before the courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be established and only then actioned upon. Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all… James Troy Senior Systems Administration From: AusNOG mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net> > On Behalf Of dusty Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM To: Matthew Young mailto:m...@mattyoung.net.au> > Cc: aus...@ausnog.net <mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> List mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young mailto:m...@mattyoung.net.au> > wrote: “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board.” People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their gender. Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll show you a deluded patriarchal fool. From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net <mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net> ] On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM To: aus...@ausnog.net <mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> List mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. "Seems you've never been to a meeting." The verity of this statement cannot
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
So, someone made reference to the lack of females on the board... Can we take a moment and have a look at something? Apart from myself (who identifies as 'one of the guys' most of the time) how many female members are there? If you were to consider the topic being discussed, I would have thought that passionate females on this list would probably want to speak up. It is obviously clear that there are some very supportive males out there which is awesome to see. So what is the ratio of males to females in this situation? I remember a teacher one saying to my class, the worst thing you can be in Australia if you are looking for work is a white Australian male because you have the quota numbers stacked against you. I too am a believer that what we get should be based on merit and not on some quota system. Yes, maybe look at the percentages, if the industry is heavily biased one way over another, then maybe think about ways to market to appeal to other groups, but keep it merit based. Anything else cheapens the achievements of everyone else concerned. Sent from my iPad > On 3 Oct 2018, at 1:08 pm, dusty wrote: > > “Merit-based selection” > False equivalences > #metoo denialism (ohnoes won’t someone think of the poor menfolk??) > “Virtue signalling” > > Anyone else hit redpill bingo from this email alone? > > >> On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 15:58, James Troy >> wrote: >> Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that >> is often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this >> thread with a particular keen interest. >> >> >> >> Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender >> diversity’ was going to get pushed. >> >> >> >> Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable. Yes >> IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you start >> to include someone in something like a board selection based solely on their >> genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy subscribe to the >> idea of the ‘best person for the job’ >> >> >> >> If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all >> selected on their merits. >> >> >> >> Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely >> different can. Ie: is there someone of >> Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow wouldn’t that be >> racist? >> >> >> >> Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable. >> >> >> >> I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go to >> be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of >> race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender, >> percentages, inclusion policies is _not_ the way to get the recognition that >> some hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated industry >> (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected for >> something like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – not >> simply to be the token male. >> >> >> >> We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our >> colleagues when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that >> if an accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it should >> also be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo being >> used as a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a shread of >> proof. >> >> >> >> I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that >> proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was suggested >> at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the *Alleged* (I use this term >> deliberately as until it is proof we have due process – innocent until >> PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that are before the >> courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be established and only >> then actioned upon. >> >> >> >> Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all… >> >> >> >> James Troy >> >> Senior Systems Administration >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: AusNOG On Behalf Of dusty >> Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM >> To: Matthew Young >> Cc: aus...@ausnog.net List >> >> >
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
Merit’s a tricky concept because it’s subjective. It’s been used to keep various underrepresented groups out for quite a long time. You see this coming out of studies where they change the names on resumes and measure the response rate and things like that. You also see it in differences in performance reviews for people doing similar jobs but differing in gender or race. Sometimes to fix a broken thing you need a blunt instrument. Nobody wants (or wants to be) the token anything but by forcing people to look outside the box they’re used to you can get them to reevaluate, thus quotas can become a transitional tool. Alternatively you do things like forcing first rounds of review to be anonymous. All you get is the resume. That’s a bit hard to do in a group like this where a lot of people will be able to piece together who someone is based on their work history. I do know of some conferences that do a blind review round for proposals so that all they see is the proposal and anyone who actually knows the person behind it recuses themselves from that round. Once the first round of review is done then the names are revealed. This is done partly to ensure that people don’t get in on name recognition alone but also to ensure that the reviewers review the content first and avoid any entanglement with any biases they have (because we all have them). I suspect what people are asking for here isn’t a quota and it certainly isn’t appointing people based on anything other than their ability to be an effective board member. What it often means is requiring that people actively look for people who don’t fit the usual mould. Requiring people to actually look for people who aren’t male, or aren’t white, or whatever doesn’t mean compromising on anything, it just means requiring them to work a bit harder to achieve a better outcome for everyone. It genuinely is a better outcome, too. The healthiest and most vibrant communities I’ve seen are the ones that have diverse and inclusive memberships. In fact they tend to be even better at lifting people up and helping them develop which only makes them more sustainable in the long run. As I said above, knee-jerk responses to the notion that we might do something aren’t useful. Constructive responses are better. If you don’t like quotas, suggesting alternative ways to increase the representation of underrepresented groups on the board (and in the community!) would be useful. If you don’t like codes of conduct, offer an alternative that addresses the behavioural issues that have been raised. Don’t just regurgitate the same tired rants that we’ve all heard before because that adds nothing. If you really want to do something constructive, go find the most talented, most able woman in the industry you can think of and see if she’d be interested in joining the AusNOG board. That way it’s not a quota thing and everyone’s happy, right? Cheers, Benno. > On 3 Oct 2018, at 13:29, James Troy > wrote: > > Benno, > As I mentioned on the backlash – here it is… > > You see my response as not very positive or helpful – I think that is quite > sad really. > > “White dude” – well ½ of that is right… I am actually TSI. I would NEVER want > to be selected/hired/elected based on this. To the point its why I never > include it on any application forms, not because im ashamed of who am I, but > because I want to be selected on merit… > > The difference between my post and Mark’s post was he was offering help to > the victim, I am offering my thought/advice on a selection/election to a > board. I can see how you got these confused. > > I really hope there is full representation on any board, job, industry, etc. > I guess I wasn’t clear enough the first time – Do it on merit. If that means > on my next job interview I get pipped at the post by a more qualified > female/different ethnicity/religion person/pigeon then great. Its what I > want. Equality – real equality; not the quota kind. > > James Troy > Senior Systems Administration > > > From: AusNOG On Behalf Of Benno Rice > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 1:21 PM > To: aus...@ausnog.net > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. > > So I, too, am a lurker on this list. Hell, I don’t even run any networks > besides my home one, haven’t done for ages. > > That said I, too, have been watching this with interest and I’ve seen two > responses, well one response, and one class of responses, that I find > interesting. > > On the one hand, you’ve got stuff like James here. James is running the exact > same set of arguments that you normally get from, generally, white dudes that > feel threatened by any attempt to address the systemic problems we have in > society in general and tech in particular. Yes, yes I know they don’t b
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
On 03/10/2018 13:13, andrew khoo wrote: > can we all please fork these discussions into a separate thread or list? > > regardless of validity or virtue or other discussions, there ARE a few of us > folk that still want to use this list for operational purposes. +1 David, can you setup an ausnog.politcis ? so we can reset the mute level on this list so it is ACTUALLY used for its purpose. -- Kind Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including any attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate, discuss, or reveal, any part, to anyone, without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments, immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. Only PDF [1] and ODF [2] documents accepted, please do not send proprietary formatted documents Links: -- [1] http://www.adobe.com/ [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
Luckily while a very male-dominated industry, we're not lacking eminently qualified and talented women so I'm certain a gender balanced board is easily achievable. On Wed, Oct 3, 2018 at 1:00 PM James Troy < james.t...@agilityapplications.com> wrote: > Benno, > > As I mentioned on the backlash – here it is… > > > > You see my response as not very positive or helpful – I think that is > quite sad really. > > > > “White dude” – well ½ of that is right… I am actually TSI. I would NEVER > want to be selected/hired/elected based on this. To the point its why I > never include it on any application forms, not because im ashamed of who am > I, but because I want to be selected on merit… > > > > The difference between my post and Mark’s post was he was offering help to > the victim, I am offering my thought/advice on a selection/election to a > board. I can see how you got these confused. > > > > I really hope there is full representation on any board, job, industry, > etc. I guess I wasn’t clear enough the first time – Do it on merit. If that > means on my next job interview I get pipped at the post by a more qualified > female/different ethnicity/religion person/pigeon then great. Its what I > want. Equality – real equality; not the quota kind. > > > > James Troy > > Senior Systems Administration > > > > > > *From:* AusNOG *On Behalf Of *Benno Rice > *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 October 2018 1:21 PM > *To:* aus...@ausnog.net > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. > > > > So I, too, am a lurker on this list. Hell, I don’t even run any networks > besides my home one, haven’t done for ages. > > > > That said I, too, have been watching this with interest and I’ve seen two > responses, well one response, and one class of responses, that I find > interesting. > > > > On the one hand, you’ve got stuff like James here. James is running the > exact same set of arguments that you normally get from, generally, white > dudes that feel threatened by any attempt to address the systemic problems > we have in society in general and tech in particular. Yes, yes I know they > don’t believe that those problems are there but, well, whatever. I saw > similar from Noel Butler and from Matthew Young up-thread. All of these > tend to come across as a knee-jerk reaction against the notion that we > might actually do something. > > > > On the other hand we had Mark Newton’s “What I can do to help.” post. > Instead of a knee-jerk reaction against doing something, he put forward a > completely reasonable set of steps that he promised to do if someone were > to come forward. Hell, his set of steps form a pretty good basis for the > enforcement process of a Code of Conduct. > > > > One of these messages was positive and valuable. The others were very much > not. > > > > Cheers, > > Benno. > > > > On 3 Oct 2018, at 12:57, James Troy > wrote: > > > > Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that > is often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this > thread with a particular keen interest. > > > > Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender > diversity’ was going to get pushed. > > > > Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable. > Yes IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you > start to include someone in something like a board selection based solely > on their genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy > subscribe to the idea of the ‘best person for the job’ > > > > If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all > selected on their merits. > > > > Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely > different can. Ie: is there someone of > Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow wouldn’t that be > racist? > > > > Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable. > > > > I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go > to be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of > race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender, > percentages, inclusion policies is _*not*_ the way to get the recognition > that some hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated > industry (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected > for something like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – > not simply to be the token male. > > > > We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our > col
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
There are some views here that would be very welcome in the Liberal Party. Please go away and join them! - G. On 3/10/2018 1:16 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: On Tue, 2 Oct 2018, Paul Wilkins wrote: The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. I strongly recommend against appointing someone on the basis of gender, or other physical characteristics. Similarly, in the case of an election, I recommend against reserving seats on the basis of gender or other physical characteristics. The most promising candidates should be considered regardless of their gender or other physical characteristics. I stand by merit based promotion, election and appointment. There are a growing number of people in our society who are arguing against meritocracy. The site below refers specifically to open source software (or, as I prefer to call it, FOSS) but the movement against merit is broader than that. https://postmeritocracy.org/ ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog -- Guy Ellis Mobile +61 419 398 234 AU 03 9489 6678 NZ 09 884 9756 www.traverse.com.au ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
Benno, As I mentioned on the backlash – here it is… You see my response as not very positive or helpful – I think that is quite sad really. “White dude” – well ½ of that is right… I am actually TSI. I would NEVER want to be selected/hired/elected based on this. To the point its why I never include it on any application forms, not because im ashamed of who am I, but because I want to be selected on merit… The difference between my post and Mark’s post was he was offering help to the victim, I am offering my thought/advice on a selection/election to a board. I can see how you got these confused. I really hope there is full representation on any board, job, industry, etc. I guess I wasn’t clear enough the first time – Do it on merit. If that means on my next job interview I get pipped at the post by a more qualified female/different ethnicity/religion person/pigeon then great. Its what I want. Equality – real equality; not the quota kind. James Troy Senior Systems Administration From: AusNOG On Behalf Of Benno Rice Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 1:21 PM To: aus...@ausnog.net Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. So I, too, am a lurker on this list. Hell, I don’t even run any networks besides my home one, haven’t done for ages. That said I, too, have been watching this with interest and I’ve seen two responses, well one response, and one class of responses, that I find interesting. On the one hand, you’ve got stuff like James here. James is running the exact same set of arguments that you normally get from, generally, white dudes that feel threatened by any attempt to address the systemic problems we have in society in general and tech in particular. Yes, yes I know they don’t believe that those problems are there but, well, whatever. I saw similar from Noel Butler and from Matthew Young up-thread. All of these tend to come across as a knee-jerk reaction against the notion that we might actually do something. On the other hand we had Mark Newton’s “What I can do to help.” post. Instead of a knee-jerk reaction against doing something, he put forward a completely reasonable set of steps that he promised to do if someone were to come forward. Hell, his set of steps form a pretty good basis for the enforcement process of a Code of Conduct. One of these messages was positive and valuable. The others were very much not. Cheers, Benno. On 3 Oct 2018, at 12:57, James Troy mailto:james.t...@agilityapplications.com> > wrote: Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that is often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this thread with a particular keen interest. Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender diversity’ was going to get pushed. Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable. Yes IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you start to include someone in something like a board selection based solely on their genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy subscribe to the idea of the ‘best person for the job’ If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all selected on their merits. Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely different can. Ie: is there someone of Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow wouldn’t that be racist? Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable. I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go to be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender, percentages, inclusion policies is _not_ the way to get the recognition that some hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated industry (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected for something like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – not simply to be the token male. We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our colleagues when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that if an accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it should also be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo being used as a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a shread of proof. I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was suggested at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the *Alleged* (I use this term deliberately as until it is proof we have due process – innocent until PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that are before the courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be established and only then actioned upon. Im
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
So I, too, am a lurker on this list. Hell, I don’t even run any networks besides my home one, haven’t done for ages. That said I, too, have been watching this with interest and I’ve seen two responses, well one response, and one class of responses, that I find interesting. On the one hand, you’ve got stuff like James here. James is running the exact same set of arguments that you normally get from, generally, white dudes that feel threatened by any attempt to address the systemic problems we have in society in general and tech in particular. Yes, yes I know they don’t believe that those problems are there but, well, whatever. I saw similar from Noel Butler and from Matthew Young up-thread. All of these tend to come across as a knee-jerk reaction against the notion that we might actually do something. On the other hand we had Mark Newton’s “What I can do to help.” post. Instead of a knee-jerk reaction against doing something, he put forward a completely reasonable set of steps that he promised to do if someone were to come forward. Hell, his set of steps form a pretty good basis for the enforcement process of a Code of Conduct. One of these messages was positive and valuable. The others were very much not. Cheers, Benno. > On 3 Oct 2018, at 12:57, James Troy > wrote: > > Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that is > often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this thread > with a particular keen interest. > > Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender > diversity’ was going to get pushed. > > Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable. Yes > IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you start > to include someone in something like a board selection based solely on their > genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy subscribe to the > idea of the ‘best person for the job’ > > If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all > selected on their merits. > > Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely > different can. Ie: is there someone of Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI > background? No? wow wouldn’t that be racist? > > Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable. > > I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go to > be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of > race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender, percentages, > inclusion policies is _not_ the way to get the recognition that some > hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated industry > (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected for > something like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – not > simply to be the token male. > > We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our colleagues > when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that if an > accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it should also > be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo being used as > a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a shread of proof. > > I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that > proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was suggested > at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the *Alleged* (I use this term > deliberately as until it is proof we have due process – innocent until PROVEN > guilty – same as the media reporting on items that are before the courts.) > aggressor until a chain of evidence can be established and only then actioned > upon. > > Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all… > > James Troy > Senior Systems Administration > > > > > > > > > > From: AusNOG On Behalf Of dusty > Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM > To: Matthew Young > Cc: aus...@ausnog.net List > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. > > > > On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young <mailto:m...@mattyoung.net.au>> wrote: >> “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the >> Ausnog board.” >> People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their gender. > > Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll show > you a deluded patriarchal fool. > > > >> From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net >> <mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net>] On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins >> Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018, Paul Wilkins wrote: The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. I strongly recommend against appointing someone on the basis of gender, or other physical characteristics. Similarly, in the case of an election, I recommend against reserving seats on the basis of gender or other physical characteristics. The most promising candidates should be considered regardless of their gender or other physical characteristics. I stand by merit based promotion, election and appointment. There are a growing number of people in our society who are arguing against meritocracy. The site below refers specifically to open source software (or, as I prefer to call it, FOSS) but the movement against merit is broader than that. https://postmeritocracy.org/ ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
can we all please fork these discussions into a separate thread or list? regardless of validity or virtue or other discussions, there ARE a few of us folk that still want to use this list for operational purposes. On October 3, 2018 at 1:09 PM, dusty (dusty...@gmail.com) wrote: “Merit-based selection” False equivalences #metoo denialism (ohnoes won’t someone think of the poor menfolk??) “Virtue signalling” Anyone else hit redpill bingo from this email alone? On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 15:58, James Troy wrote: Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that is often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this thread with a particular keen interest. Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender diversity’ was going to get pushed. Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable. Yes IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you start to include someone in something like a board selection based solely on their genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy subscribe to the idea of the ‘best person for the job’ If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all selected on their merits. Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely different can. Ie: is there someone of Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow wouldn’t that be racist? Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable. I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go to be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender, percentages, inclusion policies is _not_ the way to get the recognition that some hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated industry (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected for something like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – not simply to be the token male. We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our colleagues when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that if an accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it should also be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo being used as a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a shread of proof. I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was suggested at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the *Alleged* (I use this term deliberately as until it is proof we have due process – innocent until PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that are before the courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be established and only then actioned upon. Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all… James Troy Senior Systems Administration From: AusNOG On Behalf Of dusty Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM To: Matthew Young Cc: aus...@ausnog.net List Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young wrote: “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board.” People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their gender. Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll show you a deluded patriarchal fool. From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM To: aus...@ausnog.net List Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. "Seems you've never been to a meeting." The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. Kind regards Paul Wilkins On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith wrote: On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins wrote: > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing session. > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. > > Kind regards > > Paul Wilkins > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes wrote: >> >> >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our attention. >> >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of all parties. If there are any actionable details we will off
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
“Merit-based selection” False equivalences #metoo denialism (ohnoes won’t someone think of the poor menfolk??) “Virtue signalling” Anyone else hit redpill bingo from this email alone? On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 15:58, James Troy wrote: > Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that > is often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this > thread with a particular keen interest. > > > > Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender > diversity’ was going to get pushed. > > > > Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable. > Yes IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you > start to include someone in something like a board selection based solely > on their genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy > subscribe to the idea of the ‘best person for the job’ > > > > If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all > selected on their merits. > > > > Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely > different can. Ie: is there someone of > Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow wouldn’t that be > racist? > > > > Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable. > > > > I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go > to be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of > race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender, > percentages, inclusion policies is _*not*_ the way to get the recognition > that some hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated > industry (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected > for something like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – > not simply to be the token male. > > > > We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our > colleagues when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that > if an accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it > should also be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo > being used as a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a > shread of proof. > > > > I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that > proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was > suggested at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the **Alleged** (I > use this term deliberately as until it is proof we have due process – > innocent until PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that > are before the courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be > established and only then actioned upon. > > > > Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all… > > > > James Troy > > Senior Systems Administration > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* AusNOG *On Behalf Of *dusty > *Sent:* Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM > *To:* Matthew Young > *Cc:* aus...@ausnog.net List > > > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. > > > > > > > > On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young wrote: > > “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board.” > > People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their > gender. > > > > Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll > show you a deluded patriarchal fool. > > > > > > > > *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Paul > Wilkins > *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM > *To:* aus...@ausnog.net List > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. > > > > "Seems you've never been to a meeting." > > > > The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. > > > > Kind regards > > > Paul Wilkins > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins > wrote: > > > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're > all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > > > > Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing > session. > > > > > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise > to an unfortunate impression of the board acti
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
Ive long been a member of Ausnog mailing list, I find the information that is often posted here to be quite valuable; I have also been watching this thread with a particular keen interest. Particularly as I was waiting to see how long the #MeToo and ‘gender diversity’ was going to get pushed. Firstly let me say, any assault, sexual or otherwise is not acceptable. Yes IT as an industry is over-represented by males; however to second you start to include someone in something like a board selection based solely on their genitalia is the second you loose any credibility. I wholy subscribe to the idea of the ‘best person for the job’ If that means 25% of one gender and 75% of another then fine, they are all selected on their merits. Anything short of selection based on merits (ie: Gender) opens an entirely different can. Ie: is there someone of Asian/African/Australia/aboriginal/TSI background? No? wow wouldn’t that be racist? Suddenly people talk gender and its acceptable. I believe that IT, Along with many industries still has a long way to go to be fully inclusive of all participants, regardless of race/religion/gender/background – but selection based on gender, percentages, inclusion policies is _not_ the way to get the recognition that some hard-working people deserve. If I worked in a female dominated industry (teaching, midwifery, childcare, etc) I would want to be selected for something like this based on my work ethics, input, and recognition – not simply to be the token male. We as an industry – and as humans – should be there to support our colleagues when they get targeted and victimised, however I also agree that if an accusation is made, and reported to the ‘other company’ then it should also be accompanied with proof – too often we are seeing the #MeToo being used as a weapon to destroy people – predominately men – without a shread of proof. I do however agree that an ausnog post is not the correct forum for that proof and that is best handled between the direct parties – it was suggested at the CEO level – this protects the victim, the *Alleged* (I use this term deliberately as until it is proof we have due process – innocent until PROVEN guilty – same as the media reporting on items that are before the courts.) aggressor until a chain of evidence can be established and only then actioned upon. Im sure I will cop back-lash on this, virtue signalling and all… James Troy Senior Systems Administration From: AusNOG On Behalf Of dusty Sent: Wednesday, 3 October 2018 12:33 PM To: Matthew Young Cc: aus...@ausnog.net List Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young mailto:m...@mattyoung.net.au> > wrote: “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board.” People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their gender. Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll show you a deluded patriarchal fool. From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net <mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net> ] On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM To: aus...@ausnog.net <mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> List mailto:aus...@ausnog.net> > Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. "Seems you've never been to a meeting." The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. Kind regards <https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif> Paul Wilkins On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith mailto:markzzzsm...@gmail.com> > wrote: On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins mailto:paulwilkins...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all > men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing session. > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an > unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. > > Kind regards > > Paul Wilkins > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes <mailto:da...@hughes.com.au> > wrote: >> >> >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our >> attention. >> >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very >> seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an >> attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of all >> parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance to
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
On Wed, 3 Oct 2018 at 14:59, Matthew Young wrote: > “While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board.” > > People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their > gender. > Show me a man with a bias-free recruitment/selection process, and I’ll show you a deluded patriarchal fool. *From:* AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] *On Behalf Of *Paul > Wilkins > *Sent:* Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM > *To:* aus...@ausnog.net List > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. > > > > "Seems you've never been to a meeting." > > > > The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. > > > > Kind regards > > > Paul Wilkins > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins > wrote: > > > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're > all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > > > > Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing > session. > > > > > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise > to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. > > > > Kind regards > > > > Paul Wilkins > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes wrote: > >> > >> > >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our > attention. > >> > >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature > very seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an > attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of > all parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance > to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. > >> > >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events > have never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and > supported. We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other > organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable > for AusNOG events and mailing lists. > >> > >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not > acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We > will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader > solution. > >> > >> > >> > >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board > >> ... > >> ___ > >> AusNOG mailing list > >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > > > ___ > > AusNOG mailing list > > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > ___ > AusNOG mailing list > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
“While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board.” People should be appointed based on their merits, not based on their gender. From: AusNOG [mailto:ausnog-boun...@lists.ausnog.net] On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins Sent: Tuesday, 2 October 2018 5:50 PM To: aus...@ausnog.net List Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. "Seems you've never been to a meeting." The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. Kind regards [https://ssl.gstatic.com/ui/v1/icons/mail/images/cleardot.gif] Paul Wilkins On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith mailto:markzzzsm...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins mailto:paulwilkins...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all > men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing session. > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an > unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. > > Kind regards > > Paul Wilkins > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes > mailto:da...@hughes.com.au>> wrote: >> >> >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our >> attention. >> >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very >> seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an >> attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of all >> parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance to >> the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. >> >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events have >> never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and supported. >> We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other >> organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable >> for AusNOG events and mailing lists. >> >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not >> acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We >> will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader >> solution. >> >> >> >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board >> ... >> ___ >> AusNOG mailing list >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net<mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > ___ > AusNOG mailing list > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net<mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
David, The reason you've not heard of these concerns before is, d'uh, there is no mechanism to address the issue. And let's be clear, 1) a Stop Thread was issued to refuse the issue a forum. 2) you're only hearing about it now because Bevan passed the information on, and so have no choice but to address the concerns. 3) boilerplate governance blandishments aside, I look forward to see how the boys' club goes about instituting a code of conduct to exclude gender bias with extra dollops of delicious irony sauce. If this sounds harsh, you had the opportunity to accept responsibility. Instead, you referred Bevan to the police, which was an entirely inappropriate abdication of yours and the board's personal/fiduciary/moral responsibility. Kind regards Paul Wilkins On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:49, Paul Wilkins wrote: > "Seems you've never been to a meeting." > > The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. > > Kind regards > > Paul Wilkins > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith wrote: > >> On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins >> wrote: >> > >> > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. >> > >> > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on >> the Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and >> they're all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. >> > >> >> Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing >> session. >> >> >> >> > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise >> to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. >> > >> > Kind regards >> > >> > Paul Wilkins >> > >> > >> > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our >> attention. >> >> >> >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature >> very seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an >> attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of >> all parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance >> to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. >> >> >> >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events >> have never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and >> supported. We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other >> organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable >> for AusNOG events and mailing lists. >> >> >> >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not >> acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We >> will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader >> solution. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board >> >> ... >> >> ___ >> >> AusNOG mailing list >> >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net >> >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >> > >> > ___ >> > AusNOG mailing list >> > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net >> > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog >> > ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
"Seems you've never been to a meeting." The verity of this statement cannot be overexaggerated. Kind regards Paul Wilkins On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:42, Mark Smith wrote: > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins > wrote: > > > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're > all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > > > > Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing > session. > > > > > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise > to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. > > > > Kind regards > > > > Paul Wilkins > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes wrote: > >> > >> > >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our > attention. > >> > >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature > very seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an > attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of > all parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance > to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. > >> > >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events > have never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and > supported. We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other > organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable > for AusNOG events and mailing lists. > >> > >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not > acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We > will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader > solution. > >> > >> > >> > >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board > >> ... > >> ___ > >> AusNOG mailing list > >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > > > ___ > > AusNOG mailing list > > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
Thanks for that Nathan. Though I have to disagree, and refer you to the Sex Discrimination Act, where you can't structurally exclude women from engaging in public life. Private Corporation regardless. Kind regards Paul Wilkins On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:11, Nathan Brookfield < nathan.brookfi...@simtronic.com.au> wrote: > As announced at the conference, the AUSNOG Pty Ltd will soon no longer > exist and a new non for profit association will be formed with the members > of this list being members of the association. > > > > This will involve a constitution and the directors being responsible to > the members and I would hope the election of a board by the membership, if > females nominate to be elected to the board then we can only hope that they > are elected. > > > > The perspective of a female board member, maybe more than one would I’m > sure be welcomed but while AUSNOG is a company, they can do what they want, > how they want and with the directors of the for profit company they choose. > > > > Kindest Regards, > > Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB) > > > CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE > > The information contained in this email and any attached files is strictly > private and confidential. The intended recipient of this email may only > use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this > email and any attached files with Simtronic Technologies Pty Ltd’s > permission. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly > prohibited from using, reproducing, adapting, disclosing or distributing > the information contained in this email and any attached files or taking > any action in reliance on it. If you have received this email in error, > please email the sender by replying to this message, promptly delete and > destroy any copies of this email and any attachments. > > It is your responsibility to scan this communication and any files > attached for computer viruses and other defects and recommend that you > subject these to your virus checking procedures prior to use. Simtronic > Technologies Pty Ltd does NOT accept liability for any loss or damage > (whether direct, indirect, consequential, economic or other) however > caused, whether by negligence or otherwise, which may result directly or > indirectly from this communication or any files attached. > > > > *From:* AusNOG *On Behalf Of *Paul > Wilkins > *Sent:* Tuesday, October 2, 2018 4:50 PM > *To:* aus...@ausnog.net List > *Subject:* Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. > > > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're > all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to > an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. > > Kind regards > > Paul Wilkins > > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes wrote: > > > We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our > attention. > > This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very > seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an > attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of > all parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance > to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. > > Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events have > never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and > supported. We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other > organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable > for AusNOG events and mailing lists. > > The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not > acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We > will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader > solution. > > > > David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board > ... > ___ > AusNOG mailing list > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 17:41, Mark Smith wrote: > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins wrote: > > > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're > > all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > > > > Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing session. > *conference > > > > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to > > an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. > > > > Kind regards > > > > Paul Wilkins > > > > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes wrote: > >> > >> > >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our > >> attention. > >> > >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very > >> seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an > >> attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of > >> all parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance > >> to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. > >> > >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events have > >> never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and > >> supported. We have commenced a review of policies and processes from > >> other organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy > >> suitable for AusNOG events and mailing lists. > >> > >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not > >> acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We > >> will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader > >> solution. > >> > >> > >> > >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board > >> ... > >> ___ > >> AusNOG mailing list > >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > > > ___ > > AusNOG mailing list > > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:50, Paul Wilkins wrote: > > The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. > > While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the > Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all > men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. > Seems you've never been to a meeting. That's covered in the closing session. > That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an > unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. > > Kind regards > > Paul Wilkins > > > On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes wrote: >> >> >> We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our >> attention. >> >> This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very >> seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an >> attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of all >> parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance to >> the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. >> >> Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events have >> never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and supported. >> We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other >> organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable >> for AusNOG events and mailing lists. >> >> The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not >> acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We >> will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader >> solution. >> >> >> >> David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board >> ... >> ___ >> AusNOG mailing list >> AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net >> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > > ___ > AusNOG mailing list > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
As announced at the conference, the AUSNOG Pty Ltd will soon no longer exist and a new non for profit association will be formed with the members of this list being members of the association. This will involve a constitution and the directors being responsible to the members and I would hope the election of a board by the membership, if females nominate to be elected to the board then we can only hope that they are elected. The perspective of a female board member, maybe more than one would I’m sure be welcomed but while AUSNOG is a company, they can do what they want, how they want and with the directors of the for profit company they choose. Kindest Regards, Nathan Brookfield (VK2NAB) CONFIDENTIALITY & PRIVILEGE NOTICE The information contained in this email and any attached files is strictly private and confidential. The intended recipient of this email may only use, reproduce, disclose or distribute the information contained in this email and any attached files with Simtronic Technologies Pty Ltd’s permission. If you are not the intended recipient, you are strictly prohibited from using, reproducing, adapting, disclosing or distributing the information contained in this email and any attached files or taking any action in reliance on it. If you have received this email in error, please email the sender by replying to this message, promptly delete and destroy any copies of this email and any attachments. It is your responsibility to scan this communication and any files attached for computer viruses and other defects and recommend that you subject these to your virus checking procedures prior to use. Simtronic Technologies Pty Ltd does NOT accept liability for any loss or damage (whether direct, indirect, consequential, economic or other) however caused, whether by negligence or otherwise, which may result directly or indirectly from this communication or any files attached. From: AusNOG On Behalf Of Paul Wilkins Sent: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 4:50 PM To: aus...@ausnog.net List Subject: Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry. The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. Kind regards Paul Wilkins On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes mailto:da...@hughes.com.au>> wrote: We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our attention. This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of all parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events have never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and supported. We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable for AusNOG events and mailing lists. The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader solution. David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board ... ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net<mailto:AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net> http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog
Re: [AusNOG] Sexual harassment in our industry.
The need for a Code of Conduct has been raised and it's a good point. While we're at it though, there needs to be female representation on the Ausnog board. I see where there's 5 directors been appointed, and they're all men. I'm wondering who is doing the appointing. That they couldn't find a woman up to the required standard gives rise to an unfortunate impression of the board acting as a boy's club. Kind regards Paul Wilkins On Tue, 2 Oct 2018 at 16:10, David Hughes wrote: > > We thank Bevan for raising this important issue and bringing it to our > attention. > > This is a complex situation and we take any allegation of this nature very > seriously. We hope to discuss this further with those concerned in an > attempt to establish specifics, while maintaining the confidentiality of > all parties. If there are any actionable details we will offer assistance > to the party involved if they wish to escalate the matter further. > > Even though issues regarding the behaviour of delegates at our events have > never been raised with us, we want our attendees to feel safe and > supported. We have commenced a review of policies and processes from other > organisations and will work with our solicitors to draft a policy suitable > for AusNOG events and mailing lists. > > The organisers of AusNOG believe that behaviour of this nature is not > acceptable at any conference, function, or workplace in our industry. We > will attempt to engage the leaders of our industry to push for a broader > solution. > > > > David - on behalf of the AusNOG Board > ... > ___ > AusNOG mailing list > AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net > http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog > ___ AusNOG mailing list AusNOG@lists.ausnog.net http://lists.ausnog.net/mailman/listinfo/ausnog