Re: [Ayatana] Updates on Login (was: Re: [Fwd: Update manager])

[Allan Caeg]

Vincenzo Ciancia wrote:

Il giorno mer, 17/06/2009 alle 09.26 -0500, David Siegel ha scritto:
 
I auto-login, so I would not use this feature, but let's not think of 
gurus like us



The argument "that's for gurus" or "power users" keeps popping up :)
This can not be applied here: auto-login is enabled by checking an
innocent checkbox during install, and I am sure this is more interesting
for non-power-users who have only one user account on their machine.

Not that I do not find the idea interesting, it's just an observation on
that particular argument that I don't like too much.

V.
  
Yeah. It's a good thing that you pointed out that auto-login can be 
activated during install. I use the auto-login feature too and run 
xtrlock on startup for protection but that's already offtopic.


I don't think that updates on login or at shutdown is a good idea. 
Routine fsck can attest to this. Most of the time, it's not the right 
time to wait for updates because the user is in a hurry to do what he 
wants to do with the computer, in my case at least. It's a good thing 
that there's an option now to cancel this routine check. Unlike fsck, 
updates can be done on a running DE session. If notifying about updates 
at startup really is a good idea, the right thing to do could be simply 
notifying the user that there are updates and letting the user choose 
whether or not to permit the upgrade while not restricting the user from 
doing typical desktop operations while the upgrade is running. A use 
case would be Jack wants to IM his classmate soon because she texted him 
she is already online. Jack turns the computer and sees updates 
notifications after he logged in. He then permits the upgrade and while 
the upgrade is running, he opens Pidgin so he can chat right away. The 
upgrade should be after GDM because some people auto-login or don't use 
GDM. Also, processing package information while loading GDM would slow 
down login. That would be very annoying.


I also don't agree with updates on shut down. I'm on a laptop and it's 
annoying when Windows doesn't want to power off when I want it to 
because I'm uncomfortable with bagging my laptop and carrying it around 
while it upgrading. That's just bad for my hard drive and my hardware 
will be hot.



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Re: [Ayatana] Updates on Login (was: Re: [Fwd: Update manager])

[Allan Caeg]

You might want to read this 
http://lifehacker.com/5295449/disable-ubuntus-annoying-update-manager-popup



Alex Launi wrote:
I figured I should start a new thread for this, so that you can all 
continue your icon vs. pop-under debate, which is still relevant for 
the auto-login case, although it becomes much less important. I've 
copied and pasted the relevant posts from the previous thread into 
this one. Have at it.


===

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Alex Launi > wrote:
I had meant to chat with Martin Pitt after his plenary, but never 
managed to catch up with him. I forgot about it until I was going 
through my notebook the other day. It would be really great if when 
update-manager presented itself, some bugs (ones that you 
reported/subscribed to on LP) had a nice messsage that made you really 
excited to update because your bug was fixed! Make updates fun!


David Siegel also had a really great idea for making updates fun (and 
it also solves the issue of how to handle updates- notification icon 
or pop-under window) at the "install updates on shutdown" discussion. 
Let me preface this with these are his ideas and not mine, I think 
they're great and he deserves the credit. His idea was to do updates 
at login. We could do the checking while you're using, and then if we 
find them on reboot show them in gdm with a nice present icon, like 
we're giving you a gift. This way if an update requires a restart, you 
don't have to save your state, restart, blah blah blah and interrupt 
your entire workflow, you haven't started yet. It might not be 
possible now, but when the clutter gdm finally lands we could do it 
really beautifully.


--
-- Alex Launi

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:06 PM, tacone > wrote:

Good intent, bad idea.
When you turn on the pc it's because you needed. Windows shows the
update notification on shutdown, which makes much more sense (and if
you just installed some reboot requiring update, even more).

I wouldn't oppose to a well done, good designed entry on shutdown:


Updates available !  Keeping your system up to date is important.
[x] Install the updates before logging out. [ Open the update manager ]
-

Stefano

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 6:09 PM, Alex Launi > wrote:
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 5:06 PM, tacone > wrote:


Good intent, bad idea.


I disagree, let's imagine this scenario, together...


It's Tuesday morning, you get up and turn on your computer. Whilst you 
were fast asleep dreaming of sugar plums and sexy librarians Ubuntu 
packagers were hard at work packaging updates for your favourite 
operating system. Now that it's morning, these updates are available, 
for you! You boot up and arrive at the slick new GDM. But what's this 
message?


"New updates available! Click here to install"

Some days you're very busy, and need your computer right away so you 
chose to ignore them and log right in. That's ok, they'll be available 
when you're ready. Update Manager shouldn't go away, you should be 
able to launch it yourself manually if you want to update once you've 
logged in and found out that DST was this weekend and you've got some 
extra time.


But today you decide to click. The interface changes nicely into a 
screen displaying what updates are available, and asking for your 
username and password to authorize install / log in. If you're not an 
administrator we will politely tell you that you can't perform an 
upgrade, and that you should let your administrator know that your 
system needs some updates. At this point we just finish the login, 
since you just gave us your info. Awesome.


Now let's say you are an admin, this update requires no reboot so we 
log you right in, and when the desktop is loaded there is already a 
dialog waiting giving you the progress of your update. You may 
continue working, you weren't cost much time, and your system is fully 
secure because you're up to date.


But next time there might be a kernel upgrade, which will require a 
restart. In this case we should ask the user what they'd like to do. 
In some cases the estimated time to finish (which we will show) may 
only be 2 minutes, and we can afford that so we just halt the login 
and modally install the upgrades, or we allow them to say "ok i 
recognize that this update will need a restart to apply, but I need my 
computer- so lets continue like there are no updates that require a 
reboot, and I will reboot when I'm ready.




Awesome, right?

--
--Alex Launi

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Charlie Kravetz 
mailto:c...@teamcharliesangels.com>> wrote:

What about those who use an autologin? They will never see those gdm
screens.

--
Charlie Kravetz
Linux Registered User Number 425914  [http://counter.li.org/]
Never let anyone steal your DREAM.   [http://keepingdrea

[Ayatana] Chocolate Color Scheme

[Allan Caeg]

Ubuntu always had an earthy color scheme, one with brown and orange.
There have been a lot of discussions about this because many users have
violent reactions. However, it is difficult to veer away from the color
scheme because it defines Ubuntu very much and the rationale behind it
is reasonable. 

Perfectska04 has a famous GNOME theme suite. Probably, a lot of you are
familiar to it and are using it. He has a set of icon themes, GDM
themes, and gtk themes that have different color schemes. His latest
color scheme is the "Dust" variant. This scheme's look and feel is based
on the color of chocolate. Prior to that, he always had a "Human"
variant, which is orange. The Dust variant feels more earthy and looks
much more elegant. For some reason, I am much more comfortable with the
chocolate feel. Maybe because orange really feels cheaper. It has always
been associated with low end products and services while a dark shade of
brown, in my opinion, reminds the user of chocolate and leather. 

Shiki-Dust and GNOME-Dust fit the Ubuntu desktop very well because of
the look and feel that they create. It is earthy like the Human theme,
just more elegant, in my opinion. There may be some usability issues
because of the dark elements of the theme but the only known bug due to
its dark nature is a small color issue in Firefox which is fixed by
adding a user style mentioned in
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Shiki-Colors?content=86717 . 

Jaunty included Dust and New Wave as alternative themes. I believe that
Shiki is much more bug-free and elegant than most themes and it is in
very active development. In fact, OpenSuSE 11.2's default theme (Sonar)
is based on the green variant, GNOME-Wise, of the theme suite. I suggest
at least including the Dust variant of GNOME-Colors to the future
versions of Ubuntu as an alternative theme to Human, if not as a
default. I understand that it has a little different set of principles
from the Human icon theme as it includes application icons. This can
easily be fixed by not including those icons, though. 

I am sending this to the Ubuntu Artwork Theme and Ayatana discussion
because its an artwork issue that can be included in the 100 papercuts. 

Here is a link to the screenshot of my desktop with the GNOME-Dust
theme. http://g.imagehost.org/view/0082/Screenshot

Best Regards 


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Re: [Ayatana] Chocolate Color Scheme

[Allan Caeg]

I forgot to mention. I am also suggesting adjusting the current Human
theme to something more "chocolate-ey" if including the themes under
discussion would not be possible. 

I failed to add the links to the project I was referring to. Sorry.

Here it is http://code.google.com/p/gnome-colors/

Shiki-Colors gtk
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Shiki-Colors?content=86717

GNOME-Colors icon theme
http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/GNOME-colors?content=82562


On Sun, 2009-06-21 at 21:17 +0800, Allan Caeg wrote:
> Ubuntu always had an earthy color scheme, one with brown and orange.
> There have been a lot of discussions about this because many users have
> violent reactions. However, it is difficult to veer away from the color
> scheme because it defines Ubuntu very much and the rationale behind it
> is reasonable. 
> 
> Perfectska04 has a famous GNOME theme suite. Probably, a lot of you are
> familiar to it and are using it. He has a set of icon themes, GDM
> themes, and gtk themes that have different color schemes. His latest
> color scheme is the "Dust" variant. This scheme's look and feel is based
> on the color of chocolate. Prior to that, he always had a "Human"
> variant, which is orange. The Dust variant feels more earthy and looks
> much more elegant. For some reason, I am much more comfortable with the
> chocolate feel. Maybe because orange really feels cheaper. It has always
> been associated with low end products and services while a dark shade of
> brown, in my opinion, reminds the user of chocolate and leather. 
> 
> Shiki-Dust and GNOME-Dust fit the Ubuntu desktop very well because of
> the look and feel that they create. It is earthy like the Human theme,
> just more elegant, in my opinion. There may be some usability issues
> because of the dark elements of the theme but the only known bug due to
> its dark nature is a small color issue in Firefox which is fixed by
> adding a user style mentioned in
> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Shiki-Colors?content=86717 . 
> 
> Jaunty included Dust and New Wave as alternative themes. I believe that
> Shiki is much more bug-free and elegant than most themes and it is in
> very active development. In fact, OpenSuSE 11.2's default theme (Sonar)
> is based on the green variant, GNOME-Wise, of the theme suite. I suggest
> at least including the Dust variant of GNOME-Colors to the future
> versions of Ubuntu as an alternative theme to Human, if not as a
> default. I understand that it has a little different set of principles
> from the Human icon theme as it includes application icons. This can
> easily be fixed by not including those icons, though. 
> 
> I am sending this to the Ubuntu Artwork Theme and Ayatana discussion
> because its an artwork issue that can be included in the 100 papercuts. 
> 
> Here is a link to the screenshot of my desktop with the GNOME-Dust
> theme. http://g.imagehost.org/view/0082/Screenshot
> 
> Best Regards 


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[Ayatana] Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines

[Allan Caeg]

Ayatana Listers,
It is a good thing that Ubuntu has been paying much attention to UX through
this project. This is what open source (and technology in general) needs
very much.

I am aware that Ubuntu clearly defined what it is about. It is great that
the members of the community knows what the organization stands for. The
Ubuntu Code of Conduct ( http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct ) managed
to put the community together for a common goal. This is a rare thing even
for profitable organizations.

For sure, Canonical's hired Ayatana team has clear goals. However, I have
not seen a list of Ubuntu's User Interface guidelines. The Code of Conduct
tells the user what the Ubuntu community is all about, but not the product.
I am here to propose the construction of the Ubuntu User Experience
Guidelines if it doesn't exist yet. If it already exists, pardon me and
please consider my suggestions if I am to state anything new.

I propose to include the following to the User Experience Guidelienes:
consistency, simplicity, beauty, and the Ubuntu Spirit. By consistency, I am
referring to compliance to the Tango desktop project and GNOME's HIG (
http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/ ). Ubuntu always followed
GNOME's HIG by including applications that will make the desktop experience
consistent. An action that would prove this intention would be the inclusion
of Empathy to Karmic. I know that there are many arguments against this move
but let's leave the discussion to other threads. As for compliance to Tango,
I always felt that this could use some development because the Human icons
always seemed to me to be too glossy to be Tango. The community is
developing the Breathe Icon Set, one that doesn't comply with Tango and
follows KDE's Oxygen look and feel instead. This is a great project as it
adds to the beauty/aesthetics of Ubuntu, an important part of the UX, but it
makes the desktop experience inconsistent. Other artists stick to Tango
because of all the work that has been done. It is the most complete icon set
so developing on its guidelines would be much less painful for the artist.
However, the Breathe icon set is slowly achieving completion with the help
of the Oxygen project. This is going to be a long discussion so I am leaving
this to other threads, but I am just suggesting now that sticking to Tango
for official releases may be the best path at the moment.

As for simplicity, this is achieved by the distro by putting only what is
needed. I do not have too much to say about this issue because I am
personally contented with the state of Ubuntu in this area.

Beauty clearly is one of the focuses of the Ayatana project. This seems to
be most evident through the Notify-OSD. I do not think that I have to
justify the inclusion of this because Mark has been talking saying that
"pretty is a feature."

Lastly, I suggest the inclusion of the "Ubuntu Spirit," which is best
defined by the Code of Conduct. The biggest reason why I am sticking to
Ubuntu, even if using a commercial OS could be easier for me, is my
perception of it. UX consists of how the user perceives the tool. I may be
using Shiki, Sonar or Clearlooks; but I feel that Ubuntu is warm. There was
a thread in the forums where the OP was asking if Ubuntu is worth all the
hassle, my answer was yes because I know that it is a product out of the
love of the volunteers that build it. I stick to Ubuntu because of the
integrity behind it and its community. By using the OS, the user would feel
that others are there for him/her through the links to launchpad (like
"Report a Problem" and "Get Help Online"). This feeling would even be
magnified by joining the community online. I suggest researching more on how
to make the community more accessible to the user to add to the "Ubuntu
feel."

This is probably not a complete list so I invite the community to add.

I got the idea of such a list of guidelines from Google's User Experience
principles ( http://www.google.com/corporate/ux.html ). I suggest reading
that and Apple's ( http://developer.apple.com/ue/ ) to have a clearer idea
on what this list is about.

Again, pardon me if this has already been done and correct me if needed. I'm
just trying to contribute to Ubuntu's UX by proposing this because I haven't
seen such a list of princples yet. I believe that having clearly defined UX
goals will definitely improve the Ubuntu experience.

Best Regards,
Allan Caeg
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Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines

[Allan Caeg]

Everyone, thanks for the feedback.

To be clear, I just mentioned some examples that would be relevant to
Ubuntu's current state. I am not opposing the development of projects like
Breathe. I was just trying to define consistency and to justify its
inclusion to the UX guidelines by giving those examples. With the help of
Breathe and similar projects, there will be a greater variety of usable
choices for Ubuntu users. Right now, I would encourage more conservative
icon sets (Tango-compliant) ones for official releases because they are fit
for a larger audience.

David, I agree with your idea of having a more ambitious UX guidelines that
is above Tango or GNOME HIG. As Kevin said, Ubuntu has more considerations
than a desktop environment. Probably, I was being too conservative.

Also to clarify, my definition of consistency, as Kevin said, is internal.
It is about having a consistent experience while using Ubuntu.

I just have errands to run now. I'll get back to this.

Again. Thanks, everyone
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Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines

[Allan Caeg]

Borrowing heavily from the format and content of Google's UX principles
( http://www.google.com/corporate/ux.html ), below is my proposed draft
of the Ubuntu UX Guidelines. Before reading it, please keep in mind that
this (very) rough draft is based exclusively on my experiences with
Ubuntu (the OS), and the community so I am encouraging everyone to
contribute what is fit.


The Ubuntu User Experience is usable, beautiful, simple, consistent,
customizeable and warm.


1. Linux for Human Beings
The Ubuntu community brings to the world a GNU/Linux operating system
that is meant to be used by human beings. Ubuntu is aimed at being
usable to everyone regardless of age, culture, or race. With a team that
focuses on usability and a group of translators for localization, it is
designed to be easy and pleasurable to use for everyone out of the box.


2. "Pretty is a feature"
The need for beauty is self-explanatory. Ubuntu's artists believe that
beauty is an important factor that improves the user's experience.


3. Keeping it simple
Despite aiming to build a complete operating system out of the box,
people behind Ubuntu are keeping things as simple as possible. The whole
system that is fit in a CD is trimmed of bloat that would simply be
obtrusive to the user experience.


4. Guided by consistent standards
The open source world has a very wide variety of options. As a GNU/Linux
distribution, the Ubuntu team handpicked a collection of applications
that would create a consistent experience. By default, Ubuntu includes
application that follow the same standards. Thanks to the GNOME project,
the Ubuntu desktop has applications that use the GTK+ toolkit or that
adapt to its look and feel. 


4. Free in every sense
Ubuntu is a Free (and Libre) Open Source Software. Other than being free
of charge for the user to own and use, it can be modified and
redistributed. The default desktop may follow consistent standards, but
Ubuntu can be customized very easily to fit the needs of its users. It
may come with default applications and configurations, but it is also
designed to be tweaked very easily to satisfy different needs. The
Ubuntu community recognizes and promotes individualism./


5. Humanity Towards Others
Probably, the most important user experience feature of Ubuntu is its
warmth. The Ubuntu desktop encourages its user to collaborate with the
community by asking for help and contributing. Other than the sense of
community, Ubuntu's warmth is displayed by its artwork. Unlike most
operating systems, Ubuntu's look and feel is not the traditional
"kitchenware." People behind Ubuntu aim to let the user feel that the
computer is not foreign to the human being.
__

Again, this is a very rough draft. I would love to hear your feedback :)


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[Ayatana] Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines

[Allan Caeg]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Allan Caeg 
Date: Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines
To: Scott Kitterman 


Sir, you mean, have a specific Ayatana UX manifesto that is clearly for
Ubuntu (the GNOME desktop) alone and another one for Kubuntu? If I
understand you correctly, I agree. The reason why I pointed out the
GNOME HIG is because of *some* differences between the goals of the
desktop environments
On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 11:33 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:59:57 +0800 Allan Caeg  wrote:
> >
> >Borrowing heavily from the format and content of Google's UX principles
> >( http://www.google.com/corporate/ux.html ), below is my proposed draft
> >of the Ubuntu UX Guidelines. Before reading it, please keep in mind that
> >this (very) rough draft is based exclusively on my experiences with
> >Ubuntu (the OS), and the community so I am encouraging everyone to
> >contribute what is fit.
> ...
>
> My immediate comment is that it would be better to focus an Ayatana UX
> manifesto at the Ubuntu the project level.  They are already working in
> Kubuntu as well as Ubuntu (the OS).
>
> Scott K
>
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Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines

[Allan Caeg]

That's correct! :)

Actions are manifestations of principles and principles are
manifestations of values. A more extensive study could be done to
confirm this but a quick reference to the dictionary and my knowledge as
a Psychology major affirms the idea.

Your proposed principles made me think that it could help if we have two
presentations of the UX principles: for the user and the developer. It
is the developer's job to empathize with the user so the developer has
to understand the two presentations of the principles but the user
doesn't necessarily have to understand the developer's principles. A
component of UX is the perception of the product. As an Ubuntu user, my
perception of the OS is affected by what I read about it. Its code of
conduct and "the Ubuntu promise" helped me form my perceptions of the
OS.

Perhaps, a helpful tool to generate ideas on what to include in the list
of UX principles would be surveying in the UbuntuForums. I will ask
people on UF how they perceive Ubuntu then tell you their feedback :)

Best regards,
Allan Caeg
https://launchpad.net/~wersdaluv
http://twitter.com/wersdaluv

On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 17:32 +0100, Charline Poirier wrote:
> Great ideas!
> 
> Your message made me think that there is a very close link between 
> values and principles. Values should be at the source of our principles 
> and principles should be formulated in a way that is actionable and 
> tangible for designers. For example, it is difficult for designers to 
> design to warmth (which expression and use differ significantly in 
> various cultures), but they certainly can design to collaboration which 
> you mentioned in the next sentence. Collaboration has the advantage of 
> being behavioral and so there are specific actions that can be taken to 
> facilitate it, like bring people together and provide them tools.
> 
> In addition to the basic heuristic usability principles such as 
> consistency, feedback, etc. Ubuntu should have some distinctive 
> principles that support its own identity: Linux for human beings.
> 
> Some of the principles could be:
> 
> Interconnection
> 
>  From the user's perspective, interconnection means a seamless 
> experience of the activities they engage in to achieve an end goal.
> 
>  From the designer's perspective, it could mean: make the interaction 
> between various applications connected to each other and to the whole.
> 
> 
> Collaboration
> 
>  From the user's perspective: Easy access to sharing and communication 
> tools.
> 
>  From the designer's perspective: make communication and collaboration 
> tools immediately visible and accessible. Emphasize such tools over others.
> 
> 
> User control
> 
>  From the user's perspective: focus on my goals, don't be in my way and 
> don't distract me, use my language, let me make decisions and don't give 
> me fake choices.
> 
>  From the designer's perspective: never be wasteful, if something 
> doesn't add anything, don't put it in. Make the structure of the system 
> anticipate user actions and respond to user lead.
> 
> 
> This llist is by no means exhaustive...
> 
> 
> C.
> Charline Poirier
> User Research Programme Lead
> Canonical
> 
> charline.poir...@canonical.com
> Tel: +44 207 630 2491
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Allan Caeg wrote:
> > Borrowing heavily from the format and content of Google's UX principles
> > ( http://www.google.com/corporate/ux.html ), below is my proposed draft
> > of the Ubuntu UX Guidelines. Before reading it, please keep in mind that
> > this (very) rough draft is based exclusively on my experiences with
> > Ubuntu (the OS), and the community so I am encouraging everyone to
> > contribute what is fit.
> > 
> >
> > The Ubuntu User Experience is usable, beautiful, simple, consistent,
> > customizeable and warm.
> >
> >
> > 1. Linux for Human Beings
> > The Ubuntu community brings to the world a GNU/Linux operating system
> > that is meant to be used by human beings. Ubuntu is aimed at being
> > usable to everyone regardless of age, culture, or race. With a team that
> > focuses on usability and a group of translators for localization, it is
> > designed to be easy and pleasurable to use for everyone out of the box.
> >
> >
> > 2. "Pretty is a feature"
> > The need for beauty is self-explanatory. Ubuntu's artists believe that
> > beauty is an important factor that improves the user's experience.
> >
> >
> > 3. Keeping it simple
> > Despite aiming to build a complete operating system out of the box,
> > people behind

Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines

[Allan Caeg]

That sounds more beneficial for free desktops overall.

I think, it is best to define DE-specific principles. While there are
some principles/guidelines that would fit only one DE's goal's most UX
principles could be shared across DEs.

Maybe, a DE-specific guideline would be the "warm feel" of the artwork.
As we all know, Kubuntu has a different path from Ubuntu when it comes
to this area.

Probably, the best thing to do would be to keep in mind every DE while
constructing a set of UX principles. That way, no one is left out. After
all, one of Ubuntu's principles is giving the user the option to choose
because we recognize individual tastes, preferences, and needs.

We are yet to discover other DE-specific guidelines. If someone can
mention anything other than the artwork's feel, please do.

In other news, here is my UF thread on the survey to know how users
perceive the Ubuntu UX
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1279499 . I think, this thread
will be alive for quite some time. If I think that we already have
substantial responses, I will code them into themes.

Allan Caeg

On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 23:53 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> > -- Forwarded message --
> > From: Allan Caeg 
> > Date: Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 9:11 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines
> > To: Scott Kitterman 
> (top posting fixed)
> > On Wed, 2009-09-30 at 11:33 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote:
> >> On Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:59:57 +0800 Allan Caeg 
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >Borrowing heavily from the format and content of Google's UX principles
> >> >( http://www.google.com/corporate/ux.html ), below is my proposed draft
> >> >of the Ubuntu UX Guidelines. Before reading it, please keep in mind
> >> that
> >> >this (very) rough draft is based exclusively on my experiences with
> >> >Ubuntu (the OS), and the community so I am encouraging everyone to
> >> >contribute what is fit.
> >> ...
> >>
> >> My immediate comment is that it would be better to focus an Ayatana UX
> >> manifesto at the Ubuntu the project level.  They are already working in
> >> Kubuntu as well as Ubuntu (the OS).
> >>
> >> Scott K
> >
> >
> > Sir, you mean, have a specific Ayatana UX manifesto that is clearly for
> > Ubuntu (the GNOME desktop) alone and another one for Kubuntu? If I
> > understand you correctly, I agree. The reason why I pointed out the
> > GNOME HIG is because of *some* differences between the goals of the
> > desktop environments
> 
> I meant rather the opposite.  I think that eventually, that would be
> appropriate, but that first take a step back and look at the higher level
> abstractions that apply across the Ubuntu project and then drill down to
> desktop environment specifics.  As I understand it, Ayatana is not meant
> to just be fore Ubuntu, but to help improve the entire free desktop
> ecosphere.  If you focus too soon on one desktop for one distribution, I
> think that vision will be difficult to achieve.
> 
> As an example, one of the points we (I'm a Kubuntu developer) discussed
> with Ayatana at the last UDS was the idea of notification consistency.  If
> my chosen desktop is Gnome and I am running notify-osd, then I should get
> notify-osd notifications from all applications regardless of if they
> happen to be KDE or Gnome.  OTOH, if I'm using Pidgin in KDE, I should get
> native looking notifications from Pidgin.
> 
> We have achieved this goal for Karmic.  After a lot of work by both KDE
> and Ayatana developers, there was enough of an agreement about the f.d.o
> notification spec for KDE to be able to integrate with
> libnotify/notify-osd and so thanks to Ayatana (and the KDE developers that
> were involved) we will have that for Karmic.  KDE applications will put
> their notifications on the bus for whatever notification system is active
> to listen to and KNotification will listen on the bus for notifications
> from any application that puts them there.
> 
> The really nice thing about this is that the KDE patches hit KDE svn for
> KDE 4.4 and the Ubuntu archive for Karmic/KDE 4.3 within 24 hours of each
> other, so we benefit now and the whole free desktop world benefits next
> year.
> 
> I believe that this kind of effort is something that Ayatana is pretty
> uniquely positioned to work on and will ultimately elevate all of us.
> 
> So yes, we need DE specific work, but we need to work at the higher level
> too.
> 
> Scott K
> 
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Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines

[Allan Caeg]

With the responses to the thread
( http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1279499 ) and your
suggestions, here is another draft. This certainly isn't polished and
there's a lot to add. 

Feedback please :)

___

The Ubuntu User Experience is aimed to be usable, helpful, unobtrusive,
evolving, stable, powerful beautiful, simple, consistent, customizeable,
and warm.


It Just Works for Human Beings

The Ubuntu community brings to the world a GNU/Linux operating system
that is meant to be used by human beings. Ubuntu is aimed at being
usable to everyone regardless of age, culture, race, or any other
classification. The user experience team considers the differences
brought by those classifications to make the Ubuntu desktop just work
for the human being.


A Tool to Get Things Done

Ubuntu is a tool for human beings to achieve their goals. The goal is to
be unobtrusive by working for the user instead of being something that
requires to be worked on by the user. As it evolves, it requires less
and less tweaking from the user. 


"Pretty is a Feature"

The need for beauty is self-explanatory. Aesthetics is an important
factor that affects the user's perception of the product and provides a
desirable ambience for the user.


Keeping it Simple

Despite aiming to build a complete operating system out of the box,
people behind Ubuntu are keeping things as simple as possible. The whole
system that is fit in a CD is trimmed of bloat that could be
obtrusive to a desirable user experience.


Guided by Consistent Standards

The open source world has a very wide variety of options. As a GNU/Linux
distribution, the Ubuntu team should handpick a collection of
applications and configurations that would create a consistent
experience. By default, Ubuntu should include applications that follow
the same standards. Thanks to the GNOME project, among many others, the
Ubuntu desktop has applications that use the GTK+ toolkit or that adapt
to its look and feel.


Free in Every 

Ubuntu is a Free (and Libre) Open Source Software. Other than being free
of charge for the user to own and use, it can be modified and
redistributed. The default desktop should follow consistent standards,
but Ubuntu can be customized very easily to fit the needs and wants of
its users. It may come with default applications and configurations, but
it should also be designed to be tweaked very easily to satisfy unique
needs and wants. The Ubuntu community recognizes and promotes
individualism.


Ubuntu Loves the Human Being

A significant user experience feature of Ubuntu is its
warmth. This warmth is displayed by its artwork. Unlike most
operating systems, Ubuntu's look and feel is not the traditional
"kitchenware." People behind Ubuntu aim to let the user feel that the
computer is not foreign to the human being. The Ubuntu desktop
encourages its user to collaborate with the community by asking for help
and contributing.


A Product of a Circle of Friends Guided by Integrity

The community behind Ubuntu is a "Circle of Friends" with a common goal.
The Ubuntu logo says it all. Ubuntu users attest that they stick to
Ubuntu, the operating system, because of the people behind it. Its
leader spends a fortune to produce this free operating system out of the
belief that free software process is the right way of building software
and its potential to define the average person's operating system user
experience. A large group joined the community to promote the same
cause, a group that is guided by a fine code of conduct.


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Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines

[Allan Caeg]

On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 10:31 +0200, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 10:32 +0800, Allan Caeg wrote:
> 
> > The Ubuntu User Experience is aimed to be usable, helpful, unobtrusive,
> > evolving, stable, powerful beautiful, simple, consistent, customizeable,
> > and warm.
> 
> Usable by whom in what context, measured by what metrics?
> 
Usable by Ubuntu's target audience. I think, we know who the target
audience is ;) What standard? Determining it would be the next action if
we agree that it is important (in case it hasn't been acted on yet,
which I doubt)
> Beautiful? While you might sometimes see a majority of people agreeing
> regarding beauty, especially on a more general level, opinions tend to
> vary a lot. "Beautiful" lacks any kind of definition that would allow
> one to act based on it.
> 
It doesn't mean that we shouldn't value it, right? Again, determining
the standards to measure it and working to achieve it is the next action
once we agree that it should be included in the set of principles or
manifest (in case it hasn't been done yet, which I doubt again)
> Simple and consistent are not always good. They sometimes have a cost.
> 
What do you suggest, then?
> 
> 
> This reads more like a manifest, not guidelines. It's overly idealistic
> and vague. I don't see anything that would cause anyone to act
> differently, as the underlying ideals/goals are already known.
> 
> 
How would it be better if it is called a "manifest" instead of a set of
principles? If it is more fit, let's call it a manifest. As for
idealism, I think, sabdfl is looking at the same height. What more
realistic goals can you suggest? 

As for vagueness, this list is very much incomplete and my judgement
tells me that expounding on each principle would be the next action once
we agree that these are the right principles to include. What can you
suggest to reduce the vagueness?

I think, defining a set of UX principles would be very beneficial for
developers, designers, and other members of the community. Refering to
them would remind them that there are considerations that they should
always keep in mind. My background in Industrial/Organizational
Psychology and the lessons I learned from Stephen Covey's work tells me
that organizations need to clearly define goals because its members
rarely share the exact vision. If my judgement is wrong, please tell me
why.

Best regards,
Allan


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Re: [Ayatana] Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines

[Allan Caeg]

Thanks for the feedback. That reminded me of the new feature of
notify-osd that hides it under a window that is set fullscreen. That's
just a side effect of the bug fix for flickering windows but it's also a
good example of being unobtrusive because it avoids disturbing the user
who is focusing on the "fullscreened" window :)

On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 14:19 +0300, Toni Ruottu wrote:
> > The Ubuntu User Experience is aimed to be usable, helpful, unobtrusive,
> > evolving, stable, powerful beautiful, simple, consistent, customizeable,
> > and warm.
> 
> +1 unobtrusive ;-)
> 
> Some other Linux-based systems never call for your attention. One of
> Ubuntu's strengths is that it tells you when something important
> happens. eg. security updates are available. Designing notifications
> that do not disturb users work flow is one of the most important goals
> for future, and I've been happy to see Ubuntu takes it seriously by
> exploring various notification techniques. Turning this into a formal
> specification may be hard, but probably worth the effort, where as the
> new notification APIs already draw some rough characteristics.
> 
>   --Toni


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[Ayatana] [Re: Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines]

[Allan Caeg]

--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the info. However, as unobtrusive is defined, it seems that
what happened to you is the other way around. Your value for IM
notification makes the nonappearance of the notify-osd obtrusive instead
of the other way around. 

As I suggested, the UX guidelines have to include customizeability
because as you said, one size doesn't fit all.

Perhaps, we can file a bug regarding this issue if there isn't one
yet :)

On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 20:10 +0530, mac_v wrote:
> On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 21:22 +0800, Allan Caeg wrote:
> > Thanks for the feedback. That reminded me of the new feature of
> > notify-osd that hides it under a window that is set fullscreen. That's
> > just a side effect of the bug fix for flickering windows but it's also a
> > good example of being unobtrusive because it avoids disturbing the user
> > who is focusing on the "fullscreened" window :)
> > 
> 
> Unobtrusive doesnt have to mean that it is helpful!
> 
> The other day , i was watching a movie and the sound of an IM ping got
> drowned in the movie's noise , and didnt notice the IM until the movie
> was over! And by then the person who had sent the IM was offline.
> 
> For me, if a person sends me an IM , IM *is* more important than the
> movie and i do want to be notified immediately.
> 
> If the issue is about presentations.. suppressing the bubbles during an
> OOo might be better... now it suppressed the bubbles even when using
> picture slideshows!
> 
> For now , a workaround i do while watching movies , is to *not* use
> fullscreen. But rather use a Maximized window!
> This is *very* frustrating , not being able to even watch a movie
> peacefully!
> 
> For my user scenario... unobtrusive = frustrating = unproductive !
> 
> Though i agree that a personal message during a presentation would be
> embarrassing...
> What would be the chances of that happening compared to a person missing
> an IM notification while watching a movie!
> [most folks dont turn on the im clients during presentations , this
> embarrassment problem would be more when a person is using a laptop and
> has im client running
> While this 'fix' this would affect both desktop and laptop users and
> most definitely a larger user base ]
> 
> It has already been pointed out on the mailing list, several times here
> that now all fullscreen means that user doesnt want to be disturbed!
> 
> There have been other who said that they use firefox in fullscreen
> mode... so how does fit with being unobtrusive!
> 
> One size doesnt fit all!
> 
> 
--- End Message ---
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[Ayatana] [Re: Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines]

[Allan Caeg]

--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 16:11 +0200, Thorsten Wilms wrote:

> Actually, I don't think so. Except if you mean "everyone". That would be
> a target audience that is no target at all. No base for decisions
> especially regarding aesthetics. A nightmare in the realm of interaction
> design.
I think, there should always be a target market. The last time I
checked, the website said that it was for "human beings." However, as
you said, it could cause problems for IxD. If so, defining Ubuntu's
target market needs more attention than the set of UX princples because
it is the first thing that should be set.
> 
> "Beautiful" is about as helpful as specifying that Ubuntu should be
> "good". Instead, it should be about what the presentation (mainly
> visual) should communicate.
> 
> Please have a look at:
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Briefing
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Documentation/Message
You put interesting stuff in the artwork wikis. I think, that affirms
the inclusion of "beautiful" to the set of UX princples. 

If you need help in that department, I'm interested in contributing.

> Drop them, define context/boundaries or best: go back to the underlying
> goal. I think this would be along the lines of: Minimize the complexity
> of the mental model a user needs to accomplish their tasks, without
> reducing efficiency. Where tasks need to be defined: where does Ubuntu
> end and applications start? Efficiency is not a simple, flat thing, as
> you have to look at the specifics of users and their context, including
> duration of use.
I think, the alternative for "simple and consistent" could be "Minimize
the complexity of the mental model a user needs to accomplish their
tasks, without reducing efficiency" as you suggested. Feedback from
others regarding this would be very much appreciated.

> Guidelines makes me expect something I can work through, that might be
> used as check-list. Something rather dry, rational.
> 
> With a manifest, I expect something emotional, setting the right mood,
> but also defining the cornerstones of a philosophy.
> 
> There's already
> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/philosophy
> http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
> 
> There's a large area concerned with basic interaction and interface
> design that simply can't be specific to Ubuntu. It should be handled
> independently. However, I doubt you can come up with something that is
> notably different from several collections of principals/guidelines that
> are already out there.
> 
> It could be good for the reputation of Ubuntu to have such general
> guidelines tied to the brand, but it could keep others from perusing it
> and hence hurt the wider community.
> 
I think, the emotional factors that you found on the list would fit the
UX principles very well. Human Factors International is preaching that
usability is not enough and that we should consider persuasion, emotion,
and trust as well. The list I suggested included those three factors and
they seem to be fit as far as I am concerned. 

I don't think that Ubuntu's philosophy and code of conduct can
substitute UX guidelines. They are enough to define what the community
is all about but the product (the operating system) needs a set of UX
guidelines so the Ubuntu philosophy and code of conduct are translated
into how they would manifest in the product.

Can you suggest a list of UX principles already out there that can serve
as substitute for a unique set of UX principles for Ubuntu?

You seem to be concerned about being constrained to a defined set of
principles for Ubuntu and how it would hinder developers to be more
creative. Am I correct? If so, I don't think it's something to worry
about because the Ubuntu way doesn't stop people from suggesting changes
to the set of UX principles.

If there's a good enough list of UX principles already out there that
can serve as reference for everyone developing Ubuntu, it would be nice
if we can post it where the community can see so everyone is guided by a
common vision.

Thanks.
--- End Message ---
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[Ayatana] [Fwd: Re: [Re: Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines]]

[Allan Caeg]

--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 2009-10-03 at 19:13 +0200, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
> Yes, back when I worked on the stuff now in the artwork wiki, I asked
> sabdfl about this and he said something that comes down to:
> Ideally we aim at everyone, but strategically aim at Young web-savvy
> professionals.
If that's the case, what Ayatana people suggest to be put on the list of
UX in terms of the target market. I suggest being ambitious and still
aiming to work for everyone. After all, the UX principles should be
guided by long term goals. For the next release, it's strategic to aim
at the young and web-savvy but it doesn't seem ideal to put in the list
something like "Ubuntu is aimed at working for the young web-savvy
professionals" because the public won't appreciate that and I don't
think it's the long term goal. This kind of information has to stay
internal to avoid controversies. 

> There's still no need for the term beautiful and nothing to be gained
> from it.
Google's set of UX principles included it. I think, it has been guiding
their devs, artists, and so on very well.

> Cool, but it's frozen, if not dead. I had to realize that it had almost
> no effect on my fellow artwork contributors and once there was a design
> team at Canonical in place, I thought it would be up to them.
If so, something has to be done about this. Ubuntu is a distro, not a 
personal OS of any artwork contributor (unless it's sabdfl of course). 
They have to follow the "Ubuntu way" that we're trying to clearly define 
here.


> Depends on the definition of usability. I like one along these lines:
> Usability is the combination of effectiveness, efficiency and
> satisfaction. Regarding a specific user, context and task.
Exactly. That's what we're also trying to define here. First, we
determine what principles are important, then include them in the set of
UX principles. Next, we define them so everyone has a clear
understanding of what we mean. My definition of usability is similar to
yours but some developers or designers may have a different perception
on this so we have to hear it from them so that we can set a common
goal.

> Just avoid duplication.
I don't think there's duplication at all. I'll expound below

> Actually difficult to find something exhaustive and precise, outside of
> books :/
> 
> This is nice, of course, but there are too specific details:
> http://developer.apple.com/mac/library/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/XHIGIntro/XHIGIntro.html
> 
> Lost of interesting stuff on
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usability
> But not quite the right form :)
> 
> As long as the Ubuntu desktop is basically Gnome, it has to be
> considered to just point to the HIG and to refine it as needed.
> http://library.gnome.org/devel/hig-book/stable/
That's what we're doing here. We're defining what the principles to
include are. Yes, there are books that would guide us but not all of us
are reading the same books, understanding them the same way, or reading
them at all. 

You have comments of the Apple HIG and the stuff on wikipedia's article.
Perhaps, we should define a set of principles that we can agree on.

I mentioned the GNOME's HIG and Tango's guidelines but other people
aren't very keen on following them exclusively (see earlier posts here).
It just means that we're not looking at UX with a similar lens. With
different goals, the works of various developers and designers would be
messy.

> You couldn't be more wrong. I don't even see how you go there.
> 
> I expect that the by far largest part of user-experience/usability
> guidelines would apply to pretty much all pointer-driven GUI systems.
> Another large part would match all Gnome installs. There can only be a
> tiny bit specific to Ubuntu, at least unless it gets its own completely
> custom desktop environment.
> 
> It's kinda sad if people develop application not for Linux or for a
> desktop environment (already slightly sad) but one specific distribution
> (excluding tools related to a distribution's responsibilities).


I was trying to rephrase what you meant when you said 
> There's a large area concerned with basic interaction and interface
> design that simply can't be specific to Ubuntu. It should be handled
> independently. However, I doubt you can come up with something that is
> notably different from several collections of principals/guidelines that
> are already out there.
> 
> It could be good for the reputation of Ubuntu to have such general
> guidelines tied to the brand, but it could keep others from perusing it
> and hence hurt the wider community.

If developing for a specific DE is saddening to you and making it distro-
specific is even worse, what would you suggest? My understanding of a 
distro is that it's a unique operating system following its own principles 
so it's just natural that it has unique components that are included based
on a standard. Without a standard of inclusion, the OS would be messy.
If customization wo

[Ayatana] Fwd: [Fwd: Re: [Re: Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines]]

[Allan Caeg]

Sorry for being gone for a long time. I was very busy with my graduation.
hehe :)

On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Thorsten Wilms  wrote:

> On Sun, 2009-10-04 at 07:54 +0800, Allan Caeg wrote:
> > email message attachment, "Forwarded message - Re: [Ayatana] [Re:
> > Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines]"
> > >  Forwarded Message 
> > > From: Allan Caeg 
> > > To: t...@freenet.de
> > > Subject: Re: [Ayatana] [Re: Ubuntu User Experience Guidelines]
> > > Date: Sun, 04 Oct 2009 07:54:19 +0800
>
> Allan, if you happen to use Evolution, I would recommend that you get
> used to using Reply-to-list (Ctrl-L) ;)
> Then there's Edit-as-new-message to avoid forwarding.
>
> I'll do that :)

>
> > >  For the next release, it's strategic to aim
> > > at the young and web-savvy but it doesn't seem ideal to put in the list
> > > something like "Ubuntu is aimed at working for the young web-savvy
> > > professionals" because the public won't appreciate that and I don't
> > > think it's the long term goal. This kind of information has to stay
> > > internal to avoid controversies.
>
> I don't think the public in a wider sense takes note of such details.
> Once you leave Canonical, there's not much sense of something staying
> "internal". Finally, don't be afraid of controversies.
>
> Probably

>
> > > > Cool, but it's frozen, if not dead. I had to realize that it had
> almost
> > > > no effect on my fellow artwork contributors and once there was a
> design
> > > > team at Canonical in place, I thought it would be up to them.
> > > If so, something has to be done about this. Ubuntu is a distro, not a
> > > personal OS of any artwork contributor (unless it's sabdfl of course).
> > > They have to follow the "Ubuntu way" that we're trying to clearly
> define
> > > here.
>
> Remember that you talk about spare time contributors, doing artwork as a
> hobby. There is no "have to", you can only encourage/discourage and pick
> something or nothing from what is offered.
>
> I would love to follow guidelines to help make a fine OS. I contribute with
my spare
time too. Of course, there are people who want to pursue their own paths and
that's
what open source is all about, but there are also those people who are
really into
developing a distro and the distro needs a sort of guidelines.

>
> > > My definition of usability is similar to
> > > yours but some developers or designers may have a different perception
> > > on this so we have to hear it from them so that we can set a common
> > > goal.
>
> You don't necessarily get the best definitions by asking many people ...
>
> Let's do something to define usability properly, then. Asking people is one
of the
ways but we don't necessarily have to limit ourselves in that way of data
gathering.

>
> > > I mentioned the GNOME's HIG and Tango's guidelines but other people
> > > aren't very keen on following them exclusively (see earlier posts
> here).
> > > It just means that we're not looking at UX with a similar lens. With
> > > different goals, the works of various developers and designers would be
> > > messy.
>
> Yes.
>
>
> > > If developing for a specific DE is saddening to you and making it
> distro-
> > > specific is even worse, what would you suggest? My understanding of a
> > > distro is that it's a unique operating system following its own
> principles
> > > so it's just natural that it has unique components that are included
> based
> > > on a standard. Without a standard of inclusion, the OS would be messy.
> > > If customization worries you, the user can always take stuff out and
> add
> > > on Ubuntu.
>
> To me, a distro is definitively not an unique operating system.
>
> I'm not worried about some level of customization.
>
> What I meant: apps like GIMP, Inkscape, X-Chat, Ardour ... they are
> written for Linux (plus ports) and not Ubuntu. That's good. I don't want
> to see that change, although it would be great if there was less
> friction caused by differences between distros and the need for
> packaging.
>
> That's doesn't seem to be how things work, though. A distro is a unique OS.
That's the whole point

>
> > > It really sounds like a tough job but there's a large community that
> > > dedicated to this in Ubuntu. We have employed people and a lot of
> > > passio

[Ayatana] Ayatana Forum on UbuntuForums.org

[Allan Caeg]

The UbuntuForums probably have the most Ubuntu-related discussions. I think,
it would be good to have an Ayatana or User Experience section. With that,
UX'ers will emerge out of the forum community and there could be much more
discussions about Ubuntu's User Experience.
What do you think? Who is the right person to contact regarding this issue?
Best Regards,
Allan Caeg
https://launchpad.net/~wersdaluv
http://twitter.com/AllanCaeg
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Re: [Ayatana] Collaborative design dilemma

[Allan Caeg]

A team with a clear common goal is needed. I was trying to help define that
common goal by proposing having a list of UX principles for
Ubuntu<http://www.mail-archive.com/ayatana@lists.launchpad.net/msg00640.html>.
As Thorsten mentioned, there are people who wouldn't want to comply because
they are doing what is in accordance to their tastes and preferences during
their free time. However, a distro shouldn't be a product of different
pieces of software that are aiming to satisfy different visions. Apple,
Google, Microsoft and other big software companies have clearly defined UX
goals. I think, that is what open source needs now.
I think, the hard part in the invitation-only list could be the validity of
decisions in knowing who to include. Losing good people is a sad thing for
development.

Good UX job. I'm looking forward to a smoother Ubuntu.

Best Regards,
Allan Caeg
https://launchpad.net/~wersdaluv
http://twitter.com/AllanCaeg

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:

>
> This will be a controversial mail, so I'll ask in advance that we not let
> it get heated.
>
> I don't think we can succeed if we work on a list that is free for everyone
> to throw their ideas onto. I'm thinking that we need to create an
> invitation-only list (which is publicly archived) alongside this one.
>
> Here's why.
>
> I'm interested in the challenge of producing a free software desktop that's
> delightful to use, and convinced that good design has to be at the heart of
> that. I'm also certain that the design conversation and collaboration has to
> be open - at least about the pieces which are already in public play (in our
> case, for example, the Messaging Indicator, Notifications, and the Ubuntu
> Netbook Remix launcher (unity).
>
> At Canonical, we've started growing a really good team to lead this work.
> There are now more than 10 folks at Canonical who's sole focus is design,
> art, and user experience, across the full range of Canonical products (web -
> Launchpad and Landscape, desktop - GNOME and UNR). To match that we have a
> team of developers that is implementing various bits and pieces that don't
> already exist, or don't already exist in the form that they need to in order
> to deliver the experience we want.
>
> So I'm putting my money where my mouth is, in other words.
>
> Figuring out how to shape the relationship between that company team, which
> works on public elements as well as things which are being designed for
> netbooks that aren't yet shipping and hence which have to be confidential,
> is challenging. The team is stretched, I don't think they can participate in
> a large public freeform mailing list discussion in the same leisurely way
> that many members of the community can do. That will create the impression
> that the Canonical team doesn't care, or isn't interested in the feedback.
>
> The real challenge is that emails on this list can vary widely in how "hard
> they are to respond to". For example, an email on a specific design issue is
> easy to fit into a work day. There's a person who is responsible for taking
> the final decision on that piece, and they can participate in that thread
> and then communicate the decision.
>
> Much harder is a broadbased thread like "high level goals" or "what is
> beautiful". I just don't see any way to have the full time team engage in
> long threads like that.
>
> My current view is that we need a core team that meets in person fairly
> regularly and has a shared set of language and tools. That team needs to be
> open to participation from the community, but it also needs to have a shared
> set of values, so it frankly would not be open to folks who have a
> completely different vision of the future. That core team can collaborate
> with the goal of producing final specifications for Ubuntu. The team should
> all be at UDS, for example. It should not be a team that fights with itself
> - it needs to be made up of people who trust each other and work well
> together. And they should not have to defend every single decision against a
> flood from folks who are not part of the team.
>
> That means that the design process would contain explicit separation
> between folks on that core team, and others who express interest in a more
> casual fashion, or who have not yet bought into the core design ideas and
> process of the core team.
>
> I'm aware this proposal could result in outrage over barriers to
> participation. But I think it will be more effective if we try to build a
> core team that knows each other well and can establish norms and
> relationships.
>
> Besides, I don't think effect

[Ayatana] Support Visually Impaired

[Allan Caeg]

Hello Everyone!

I'm communicating with Rene Orense
( http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=873840 ), a visually impaired
Ubuntu user. I'm organizing the Philippine LoCo Team's Karmic release
party to be held on November 6 and he will talk about the needs of the
visually impaired and how he manages to use Ubuntu despite the
disability.

I'm aware that there are Assistive Technologies, but I don't know what
Ayatana or any group under Ubuntu is working with it. In case you're
interested in communicating with him, his organization's website is
http://www.atriev.org.ph/ . Their email addresses are i...@atriev.org.ph
and atriev@gmail.com.

Feel free to tell me if there are some questions you want me to ask him
when we meet or anything like that. If I hear anything worth mentioning
from his talk on Friday, I'll update you.

Regards,
Allan 
https://launchpad.net/~wersdaluv


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[Ayatana] Fwd: [Usability] Fwd: FLOSS and usability workshop at CHI 2010

[Allan Caeg]

-- Forwarded message --
From: Stormy Peters 
Date: Sat, Nov 7, 2009 at 5:00 AM
Subject: [Usability] Fwd: FLOSS and usability workshop at CHI 2010
To: Gnome Usability 




-- Forwarded message --
From: Paula Bach 
Date: Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Subject: FLOSS and usability workshop at CHI 2010
To: sto...@gnome.org


Hi Stormy,

I thought you'd like to know about this workshop I am organizing with a
colleague who also does research with open source and usability. Please
forward the call to people in the GNOME community who might be interested.

Thanks,
Paula


   ACM CHI 2010 Workshop on
Free/Libre/Open Source Software and HCI

 April 11, 2010, Atlanta, GA, USA

   Submission deadline: December 14, 2009
 http://flosshci.org


In the past 10 years, Free/Libre/Open Source Software (FLOSS) has become a
ubiquitous and vital force in business, education, government, and research.
This vibrant new community of software developers creates new opportunities
and challenges for HCI that are only beginning to be explored and
understood.

This workshop will:
* identify key differences between FLOSS environments and closed source
software production with respect to culture, practices, and motivations for
HCI,
* examine how these differences can (or should) impact the design of tools
and practices for usability/UX in FLOSS development, and
* explore the development of new theoretical approaches, tools, and
practices for HCI in the FLOSS community.

An important, overarching goal of the workshop is to bring the two
communities together to explore collaboration opportunities. As such, the
workshop invites practitioners and researchers in both the CHI and FLOSS
communities.

Interested individuals should submit one of the following in a two-page
conference publication format:

* A case study describing experiences in introducing and/or practicing
usability/UX in a FLOSS development context
* A summary of research conducted in the FLOSS community related to the
workshop’s theme (for example, understanding motivations of designers in
FLOSS, mapping design conversations, design tools and methods used in FLOSS,
etc.)

Submissions should use the HCI Archive Format template found here:
http://www.chi2010.org/authors/format.html#archiveformat

Deadline for submissions is December 14, 2009. Submissions should be emailed
to floss...@gmail.com.

More information about the workshop can be found at the workshop website:
http://flosshci.org. Questions about the workshop can be directed to
floss...@gmail.com.

Workshop organizers:
Paula Bach (University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, USA)
Michael Terry (University of Waterloo, Canada)


  Paula Bach
Computing Innovation Postdoctoral Research Fellow
Graduate School of Library and Information Science
University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign
http://cscl.ist.psu.edu/public/users/pbach/index.html








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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] Open Source UX Tools

[Allan Caeg]

Ah yes. Sorry for that. It's not open source but they give free licenses
to open source contributors. They gave me one. See details on
"do-gooders" here http://www.balsamiq.com/products/mockups/desktop

On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 17:47 +0530, Hiran Venugopalan wrote:
> 2009/11/15 Allan Caeg :
> > Hi Usability Listers,
> >
> > This could be offtopic, but I think, UXers here would love to discuss
> > this.
> >
> > I'm looking for Open Source UX tools. As for Mockups, Balsamiq is kind
> > enough to give me a license as an open source enthusiast. I know that
> > this has been discussed here before, but any new input is more than
> > welcome.
> 
> What Balsamiq gives? Its not Open Source, is it?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 



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[Ayatana] Sketching and Prototyping with a Firefox Addon

[Allan Caeg]

Hello All,

I just discovered the Pencil project http://evolus.vn/Pencil/ . It's a 
Sketching and Prototyping on Firefox. It can be a stand-alone app (based 
on XUL) too. I'm surprised that it's not getting a lot of attention from 
the open source community considering that they are into Linux and GNOME 
judging by the screenshot on their website and their pre-compiled 
packages for distros.


Download it from http://evolus.vn/Pencil/Downloads.html

Let's support projects like this =)

Allan

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Re: [Ayatana] Sketching and Prototyping with a Firefox Addon

[Allan Caeg]

+1 Who's in? ;)

I have the same sentiments. Pencil is nice, but not as polished as Balsamiq.
I use Balsamiq al the time (at work and play). A native version would be
great because Adobe Air isn't the smoothest thing on Linux. One of the
things that I'm not comfortable with is the lack of ctrl+c on Balsamiq on
Ubuntu, which works fine on Windows.

Allan

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:20 AM, David Siegel
wrote:

> I've tried Pencil and had very little luck.
>
> While it's not open source, I recommend Balsamiq Mockups (an AIR app).
> We should build a native, free clone of it :)
>
> David
>
> On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 10:11 +0800, Allan Caeg wrote:
> > Hello All,
> >
> > I just discovered the Pencil project http://evolus.vn/Pencil/ . It's a
> > Sketching and Prototyping on Firefox. It can be a stand-alone app (based
> > on XUL) too. I'm surprised that it's not getting a lot of attention from
> > the open source community considering that they are into Linux and GNOME
> > judging by the screenshot on their website and their pre-compiled
> > packages for distros.
> >
> > Download it from http://evolus.vn/Pencil/Downloads.html
> >
> > Let's support projects like this =)
> >
> > Allan
> >
> > ___
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] Sketching and Prototyping with a Firefox Addon

[Allan Caeg]

Yep. That's how I got my license. :) a native one (or at least  
something as integrated as XUL) would be great though. ;)


Allan

On Jan 17, 2010, at 6:15 AM, Natan Yellin  wrote:


Fwiw, Balsamiq gives out free licenses to open source projects.

Natan

On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 1:10 AM, Allan Caeg   
wrote:

+1 Who's in? ;)

I have the same sentiments. Pencil is nice, but not as polished as  
Balsamiq. I use Balsamiq al the time (at work and play). A native  
version would be great because Adobe Air isn't the smoothest thing  
on Linux. One of the things that I'm not comfortable with is the  
lack of ctrl+c on Balsamiq on Ubuntu, which works fine on Windows.


Allan


On Sat, Jan 16, 2010 at 12:20 AM, David Siegel > wrote:

I've tried Pencil and had very little luck.

While it's not open source, I recommend Balsamiq Mockups (an AIR app).
We should build a native, free clone of it :)

David

On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 10:11 +0800, Allan Caeg wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I just discovered the Pencil project http://evolus.vn/Pencil/ .  
It's a
> Sketching and Prototyping on Firefox. It can be a stand-alone app  
(based
> on XUL) too. I'm surprised that it's not getting a lot of  
attention from
> the open source community considering that they are into Linux and  
GNOME

> judging by the screenshot on their website and their pre-compiled
> packages for distros.
>
> Download it from http://evolus.vn/Pencil/Downloads.html
>
> Let's support projects like this =)
>
> Allan
>
> ___
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Re: [Ayatana] Window button order

[Allan Caeg]

Hello Everyone,

On UXExchange.com, I asked this question "How should window buttons be
positioned and 
arranged?<http://uxexchange.com/questions/2166/how-should-window-buttons-be-positioned-and-arranged>
" to hear opinions from the right people. So far, there are already 3
answers and I'm expecting a lot more.

I hope, answers from UX professionals over there would be useful.

Regards,
Allan Caeg
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Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Proposal of new UI element for windows in Ubuntu: Esfera

[Allan Caeg]

On Friday, 26 March, 2010 03:26 PM, Mark Shuttleworth wrote:

On 26/03/10 06:59, Chow Loong Jin wrote:
   

This is some really cool stuff, but one UI element doing everything,
and especially because the appearance is just a blue circle, really
does not seem intuitive. We would need a manual describing exactly how
to use the control (akin to the proposal attached earlier), or it
would be just a single (albeit powerful) UI element that nobody uses
because they don't know what it is.
 

Yes. Especially since it combines "interacting with an object" and gestures.

Mark
   


Glad to know that even if you find flaws in ideas you still give 'em a 
chance considering the amount of mails you get.


And yes, that thing does need a manual. The artwork should render what 
it does, but I don't know how to do that in such a small space.


Allan


   



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Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Proposal of new UI element for windows in Ubuntu: Esfera

[Allan Caeg]

Cool. That "other" button can be rendered like a joystick. The idea 
would be disorienting to a lot of people haven't read the manual, 
though. Perhaps, there has to be instructions like a fresh iPhones "hold 
an icon to drag it or remove the application" thing


Allan

On Friday, 26 March, 2010 05:46 PM, David Siegel wrote:
Pablo, awesome! I was just sketching something almost exactly like 
this... My concept was a bit simpler but still very sophisticated:


  * Replace Close, Min, Max buttons with just Close and "other"
  * Dragging the "other" button slightly to the right and releasing 
maximizes the window to full the right half of the screen ("maximize 
right").
 * Dragging the "other" button slightly to the left and releasing 
maximizes the window to full the left half of the screen ("maximize 
left").

  * Dragging down minimizes.
  * Dragging up maximizes.
  * Dragging and shaking minimizes all other windows.
  * Shift-clicking on the "other" button on multiple windows groups 
them, tiling the group and minimizes all other windows when shift is 
released.
  * Clicking the "other" button shows a menu with all of the actions 
above, with shapes that demonstrate the associated gestures.


As you can see, featuritis immediately sets in when we have an "other" 
button, but I think we're on to something! Let's continue the 
discussion and see if anyone can help us prototype :)


David

2010/3/26 Mark Shuttleworth mailto:m...@ubuntu.com>>

Hi folks

Got this interesting proposal from Pablo, and thought it should be
sent to the list rather than handled in private correspondence. It
reminds me of something David Siegel was sketching out, also
inspired by the challenge of "how we can make the most of the new
space".

Pablo, if you're not subscribed to Ayatana, it's the best place to
sketch out a proposal like this.

I appreciate both the detail in the proposal and the relaxed way
it's pitched!

Mark

 Original Message 
Subject:Proposal of new UI element for windows in Ubuntu: Esfera
Date:   Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:42:45 +0100
From:   Pablo Quirós 

To: m...@ubuntu.com 




Hello Mark, I've got a proposal on the buttons' subject. It is a
new element to be placed in the free space on the top-right of the
windows.

At first I wasn't very convinced on the UI change, and we
exchanged a couple of messages on the matter in the related bug
report, but I've thought about it and I agree with you that this
could bring interesting possibilities.

I've designed a concept called Esfera, which I think could be a
huge step forward to the user experience, while bringing
innovation to the Ubuntu desktop. The idea is explained in the
attached PDF; I hope you can take the time to read it or at least
send it to the Canonical Design team. Sorry for the mockup; I'm a
disaster using GIMP, but I hope it illustrates the idea.

I'd be very pleased to answer any question you may have about it.
I'd just request that if you implement the idea, I appear
somewhere as the author of the concept, and I've be glad if you
kept the name I've chosen.

Of course, there are lots of ideas that go nowhere, so I'd
perfectly understand if you consider it useless -- just thought it
was good and wanted to share it with you.

Regards,

Pablo Quirós


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Re: [Ayatana] Fwd: Proposal of new UI element for windows in Ubuntu: Esfera

[Allan Caeg]

On Friday, 26 March, 2010 06:18 PM, Jan-Christoph Borchardt wrote:

Gestures can be ambiguous when they rely too much on defined looks:
I have my GNOME window list in the top panel, the gesture for minimize 
is unclear then. And what is the gesture for unmaximize? It would 
either collide with minimize or be the same as maximize, what would be 
quite confusing.


See also the bug I filed as I was thinking about this: 
https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/metacity/+bug/548684
Great point! Since DE's are so customizeable, window lists could even be 
on the right or left.


I'd love to see a more attractive implementation of window menus. This 
is neat already. Most people just have to learn how to use it. I'm very 
used to activating the window menu by clicking Alt+Space then clicking 
the mnemonic key for the action (minimize, maximize, close, move, 
resize, etc).


Allan

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[Ayatana] GNOME Main Menu and the Distribution Logo

[Allan Caeg]

Hello everyone,

The distro logo is a logical requirement for a default desktop setup for
branding purposes (and maybe some others). Where should it be, how should it
be displayed, and how should it behave? For some reason, it is on
"Applications" <http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/1908/mockupj.png> on the
GNOME Main Menu applet and I have issues with it.

On Windows, the branding logo looks prominent and is on the bottom left, by
default. It's the button that opens the Start Menu and it had the word
"Start" on older versions. I'm fine with its current (Windows 7) look and
behavior, because the word "start" doesn't exactly represent what the menu
is. This button with the logo serves as the main menu of the whole operating
system.

On OS X, it is a little icon on the top left corner and it behaves like a
"System" menu, if I'm not mistaken. (I can't check because I'm not on a Mac
so correct me if I'm wrong). The logo represents the "Macintosh" and it
opens a menu of things that will control your Macintosh system. To open
applications or folders and do other things, the user has to click something
else. This makes sense, because other elements in the stock OS X desktop
obviously suffice for those non-system things.

The GNOME Main Menu works like the Windows Start Menu, but is split into
three. The branding logo comes with the prominently positioned Main Menu
applet (which makes sense), but it just happened to be stitched to the first
entry (which doesn't make sense). I was actually thinking about how GNOME
3.0 will fix the issue, but we don't have to wait for its release before we
resolve this.

How do we fix this? We can display the distro icon differently, move it
somewhere else, and make it behave differently. This will largely depend on
technical limitations. Right now, other than something like SLAB menu, a
quick fix that I can think of is to make the logo act as the "System" menu.
The order of menus will be *Distro logo* ("System"), Applications, and
Places. However, this can make the System menu too prominent based on the
F-shaped reading pattern. "Applications" and "Places" should be displayed
more prominently in the screen to avoid this potential issue. I recommend
exploring other solutions, though. Always remember that "Applications,"
"Places," and "System" don't necessarily need to be in one applet.

Moving forward, I also noticed that GNOME Shell doesn't have a placeholder
for the distro logo and I don't think it can be stitched to the "Activities"
button.

What can you suggest for now and for GNOME 3?

Best Regards,
Allan Caeg
http://live.gnome.org/AllanCaeg
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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] GNOME Main Menu and the Distribution Logo

[Allan Caeg]

Sounds reasonable.

Distro guys, what do you think?

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 8:26 AM, Calum Benson wrote:

>
> On 21 Jun 2010, at 15:51, Jarlath Reidy wrote:
> >
> > 4) I like the number four, but I can't think of and idea to put here.
>
> That would probably be "don't show a distro logo on the desktop at all
> (except maybe in the default background where it's under the user's control)
> because it adds little or nothing to the user experience, so save it for an
> About  dialog", but that probably wouldn't be too popular with
> distro marketing types :)
>
> Cheeri,
> Calum.
>
> --
> CALUM BENSON, Interaction Designer Oracle Corporation Ireland Ltd.
> mailto:calum.ben...@oracle.com Solaris Desktop Team
> http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771
>
> Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Oracle Corp.
>
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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] GNOME Main Menu and the Distribution Logo

[Allan Caeg]

I believe that branding should be present whenever the GNOME Panel is
present, but it shouldn't be welded to "Applications" on the Main Menu
applet. Branding is just that important for a default GNOME setup.

The thing with the Panel is, applets should work in harmony. We should
consider the behavior, positioning, appearance, etc. of other applets when
touching one applet. The distro icon should be removed from "Applications,"
but it should be moved somewhere else (in another position in the applet or
on another applet). That's just if the Main Menu is being used. If something
like the SLAB menu replaces it, it's a whole new story.

Regards,
Allan
http://live.gnome.org/AllanCaeg


> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 4:46 PM, Allan Caeg  wrote:
>
>> Sounds reasonable.
>>
>> Distro guys, what do you think?
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 8:26 AM, Calum Benson 
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 21 Jun 2010, at 15:51, Jarlath Reidy wrote:
>>> >
>>> > 4) I like the number four, but I can't think of and idea to put here.
>>>
>>> That would probably be "don't show a distro logo on the desktop at all
>>> (except maybe in the default background where it's under the user's control)
>>> because it adds little or nothing to the user experience, so save it for an
>>> About  dialog", but that probably wouldn't be too popular with
>>> distro marketing types :)
>>>
>>> Cheeri,
>>> Calum.
>>>
>>> --
>>> CALUM BENSON, Interaction Designer Oracle Corporation Ireland Ltd.
>>> mailto:calum.ben...@oracle.com Solaris Desktop Team
>>> http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771
>>>
>>> Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Oracle Corp.
>>>
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>>
>>
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Re: [Ayatana] Start Menu Concept

[Allan Caeg]

Sounds good. Now, I want to test that and see how it will work on my desktop
(or laptop). It may just be too much of a clutter for people like me, who
don't bother using menus for launching because of GNOME Do.

On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Martin Owens  wrote:

> On Sun, 2010-06-20 at 10:10 -0700, David Hamm wrote:
> > http://i.imgur.com/0bC6I.jpg
> > Idea's taken from:
> > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1476241
> > imo, id have just applications and recent with a side arrow to expand
> > either, knocking out the places when expanded.
>
> I think the best UI I've deployed for users has been this:
>
>
> http://mulenmar.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/une10_04-desktop.png?w=500&h=375
>
> It's amazing how much the older folks respond to nice big icons on their
> desktop, but icons that are categorized on their desktop.
>
> Shame that it's being replaced with medium sized unity icons, I hope we
> can still get the netbook-launcher, because it's still something I
> install on desktop machines.
>
> Martin,
>
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] GNOME Main Menu and the Distribution Logo

[Allan Caeg]

Thanks for the Feedback, Karl.

On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 7:42 PM, Karl Goetz  wrote:
>
> > applet. Branding is just that important for a default GNOME setup.
>
> Who is branding important to? the desktop? the user? the distributor?
>
> Why do you feel its so important?


This is very important for distro marketing. Market share is one of the
issues that Linux advocates arguably have to address. If it's hard to tell
at a glance what system is running on a desktop, there would be an issue. I
don't think that the real estate of desktops is that scarce to completely
get rid of the branding anywhere on the panel.

What are your thoughts?
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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] GNOME Main Menu and the Distribution Logo

[Allan Caeg]

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Karl Goetz  wrote:

> "About gnome" under 'System' is the only place I can see an obvious
> gnome reference on my desktop (2.22 provided by Debian). Is there
> anything else they can remove? The foot in the corner is what started
> this debate after all :)
> kk
>

Hello Karl,

I think, what Stormy is referring to is the branding's visibility on the
panel (without having to open a menu or something). I believe that it's
important to see the branding all the time except if an application is on
fullscreen mode, because GNOME distributors will find a way to make their
brands visible so we might as well set a good standard upstream.

Regards,
Allan
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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] GNOME Main Menu and the Distribution Logo

[Allan Caeg]

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Jeremy Nickurak  wrote:

> Again I have to ask... why not just have no logo at all? In upstream, and
> in distributions (which is what this mailing list is all about...)
>

Here's a message from Stormy Peters:

On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 9:36 PM, Stormy Peters  wrote:

> I think we should make it easy for downstream partners to add their
> brand the way we want it added. Otherwise, if there's no room for
> their brand, they may end up doing things that we think impede the
> usability or they may remove our branding if it's the only place to
> insert theirs.
>
> Stormy
>
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[Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets

[Allan Caeg]

Hello everyone,

New panel applets were introduced to the newer versions of Ubuntu. They
improved the experience, because of their features, but they also created
some inconsistencies in the GNOME Panel. If I remember correctly, it used to
be that only the Menu Bar had associated elements (Applications, Places, and
System buttons). With the new Indicator Applet and Indicator Applet Session,
some icons on the right end of the top panel behave differently.

There is now a lack of harmony, which I described here
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/9033/ayatanapanelissue.png . To fix this
issue, we can change the way things are rendered, change their positioning,
tweak how they behave, etc.

What are your thoughts?
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Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets

[Allan Caeg]

On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Tyler Brainerd 
 wrote:

> This separation is addressed in the fact that they are getting rid of the
> notification area, moving all icons to the indicator applet. The clock
> applet has a new version in the works as well.
>

Thanks, Tyler. I didn't know about the new clock applet. I hope, it
addresses the issue


On Fri, Jun 25, 2010 at 3:30 PM, Conscious User wrote:
>
> If I remember correctly, there was a design principle stating
> that if things are different, make them very different because
> small differences look like mistakes. That sounds like the
> issues Allan is pointing: because the things in the corner *look*
> like they have similar behavior, it is frustrating for the
> user discovering that they do *not*.


That's right!
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Re: [Ayatana] Lack of harmony between panel applets

[Allan Caeg]

Will indicator-network feel integrated with Indicator Applet and Indicator
Session? If indicator-network is right beside Indicator Applet, will it
follow that mouse hover menu activation will jump between the two panel
applets?

As for the clock applet, does anyone here know if it will work the same way
as indicator-network?

On Sun, Jun 27, 2010 at 6:25 PM, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:
>
> You'll be able to use our replacement for Network Manager on the desktop
> too, it just won't be the default in 10.10. But if you drop NM manually
> in favour of indicator-network, you'll have a fully cleaned-up panel
> (depending of course on what else you have which still uses systray, but
> we're close enough to done-1.0 that it should be reasonable to run with
> only indicators in 10.10 desktop).
>
> Mark
>
>


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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] Cheap Open Source Morae Alternative

[Allan Caeg]

Hello Jan-Christoph!

Kirk and I are discussing this. We have a google wave discussion, but
nothing much is going on, unfortunately. We've been busy with other things,
but this is definitely on the to do list (and my "drafts" email folder) . I
was actually planning to PM you too (been on my google calendar for about 3
times, believe it or not).

Enough with the excuses. Let's talk about next steps. We have some
wireframes and personas. It also appears that you also have some stuff over
there. Can you put them on
http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/Whiteboard/UsabilityTestingSuite so
we can document the progress?

On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 5:29 AM, Jan-Christoph Borchardt <
inqu...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> If we want good usability, we need to get open usability testing tools
> going (again)!
>
> You may want to read the original thread started by Allan Caeg at
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2009-December/msg00016.html
> And on the wiki
> http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/Whiteboard/UsabilityTestingSuite
>
> Unfortunately there hasn’t been much development on that front (or am
> I missing something).
>
> So I just went ahead and pushed a modified version of Andreas
> Nilsson's small Python script »Pongo« to Launchpad:
> https://launchpad.net/pongo – see the original at
> http://www.andreasn.se/blog/?p=96
>
> It works great so far, the major flaw is performance. I conducted a
> test for Shotwell with it and the video was lagging extremely when the
> photos were imported. Except for that it was fine, I could even do a
> RTA by capturing showing the video to the participant. It was insanely
> helpful, thanks again to Andreas. :)
>
> As I am just starting out with Python, I don’t know how far and fast
> this will go. Help is always appreciated. You can check planned
> features on the Wiki or on the Launchpad project page.
>
>
> Also, who will be at GUADEC next week? I’d be interested in meeting up
> for talking about this.
>
>
> Allan Caeg wrote:
> > Hello UX people!
> >
> > I'm looking for a top-notch user testing tool like Morae. As an open
> > source enthusiast, I want something that works on Linux (specifically,
> > on GNOME). As a person with a tight budget, I want something affordable.
> >
> > Among many other features, Morae ( http://www.techsmith.com/morae.asp )
> > records a video of the user while using the product via webcam along
> > with the voice (for the think aloud protocol), and the screencast.
> >
> > I want to do those with open source software for work and open source
> > contributions. What tool can you suggest? If there's no equivalent tool,
> > is there an easy way to consolidate different open source apps like
> > gtk-recordmydesktop, the Sound Recorder, Cheese, etc, to make them work
> > as an all-in-one user testing tool like Morae?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Allan
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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] Cheap Open Source Morae Alternative

[Allan Caeg]

On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 12:26 AM, Jan-Christoph Borchardt <
inqu...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 4:08 AM, Allan Caeg  wrote:
> > Hello Jan-Christoph!
> > Kirk and I are discussing this. We have a google wave discussion, but
> > nothing much is going on, unfortunately. We've been busy with other
> things,
> > but this is definitely on the to do list (and my "drafts" email folder) .
> I
> > was actually planning to PM you too (been on my google calendar for about
> 3
> > times, believe it or not).
>
> Cool, just add me to the Wave. :)
>

Done

> Enough with the excuses. Let's talk about next steps. We have some
> > wireframes and personas. It also appears that you also have some stuff
> over
> > there. Can you put them
> > on
> http://live.gnome.org/UsabilityProject/Whiteboard/UsabilityTestingSuite so
> > we can document the progress?
>
> Yep, I already put my findings there. Currently I am just trying and
> coding, I have yet to start with a UI. I guess it is really something
> like Silverback we are after.
>

Yep, I guess, using Silverback as a peg is much more feasible than Morae.


> Currently I like the Python script way the most because it is insanely
> portable and easy to adjust (+ I can’t do anything else right now ;).
> Just like Allan Day said earlier:
> http://mail.gnome.org/archives/usability/2009-December/msg00073.html –
> I did the test on a clean live USB system.
>
> That would be cool :)

> But I am going to look into Quickly for development the next days. The
> performance problems can be beaten by lowering the output video
> resolution, but with a compiled app we might get better speeds even at
> full quality.
>

What's Quickly?

>
> We should do it similar to Silverback: Write all the captured stuff
> separately at highest quality to intermediate formats so we can later
> export it in any quality & combination we like.
>



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[Ayatana] Firefox Button, GNOME Conventions, Windicators, GTK+ 3, and some more

[Allan Caeg]

Hello All,

I am communicating with Mozilla's UX. We're discussing the Firefox
Button
 
(screenshot).
You'll notice that it's already on the Windows version of Firefox 4 Beta,
but it isn't in the Linux version.

Here's what Alex Faaborg said:

> my understanding is that we won't be able to draw in the title bar until we
> have access to GTK3 (and even then some of the details need to be worked out
> to make sure that we have the capabilities that we need).
>
> The other issue is trying to integrate with the interactive design of the
> surrounding platform and other applications on that platform.  For instance,
> if Nautilus and all of the other applications that the user regularly
> interacts with use the menu bars, then not having a menu bar for Firefox
> would violate the user's expectations and built up knowledge.
>
> On Windows 7 and Vista it's the opposite situation, menu bars are
> incredibly uncommon and users expect commands like Print to be located in a
> very saturated and colorful application control in the upper left hand
> corner (wordpad, paint, office, etc.)
>
> The third consideration we are weighing is that the Firefox button seems
> "new" while the menu bar seems "old."  It might be the case that if we
> choose to match the interactive design of the surrounding OS, people will
> criticize us for not paying attention to Linux, and prefer Chrome's UI
> because it is new and different.
>
> Here are some mockups that Stephen created to show various options:
>
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/4.0_Linux_Theme_Mockups
>
> Here is the bug where we are discussing drawing in the title bar (which we
> actually need for a few reasons beyond the Firefox button, including
> Personas and darkening the window for private browsing mode):
>
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=513159
>
> For Firefox 4, currently we are thinking that we should expose the Firefox
> button as a option, but keep the menu bar the default interface (which of
> course distros can change).  Since we can't draw in the title bar the
> FIrefox button would need to be placed in the tab strip, directly below
> where it appears on Windows.
>
> Let me know what you think, and also if there are any significant changes
> planed to GNOME's overall UI that would impact our decision (moving to a
> global menu, getting rid of menus entirely, in favor of toolbars that mix
> buttons with menu commands, etc.)
>

After talking to GTK+ guys, I told him that there seems to be two ways to
add the Firefox button: not displaying the window manager's window border
(just like what Chrome is doing, which is feasible today) and client-side
window manager buttons on GTK+ 3. Drawing the app's own window border is
good in terms of feasibility, but it will create a lot of inconsistency in
the platform. If we do it, Firefox will render a window border that won't be
present anywhere else unless it copies from others (like Chrome) or or
others copy it.

The client-side buttons is still under heavy development. Right now, adding
those buttons will break a lot of stuff, because the app doesn't know what's
happening to the window border so this needs a lot of work. *If* this
eventually becomes polished enough to be a convention, this won't be an
issue.

In the Ubuntu side of things, there's the Windicators
Project.
I don't exactly know what's happening to this project right now. It may just
be possible for the Firefox button to use the same technologies that the
Windicators are built on. Those who are familiar with this project, please
enlighten us.

There's a lot of developments like this upstream, but GNOME conventions seem
to restrict them from innovating (we don't want them to end up like
this).
Adding the Firefox button may compromise platform consistency and break
things (Ubuntu Netbook Remix, other window managers, some Metacity themes,
etc). What can we do about this?

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[Ayatana] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

[Allan Caeg]

Let's try 
thisagain.

Upstream people are innovating when it comes to the menu bars and window
borders. This is very obvious in popular web browsers: Firefox, Chrome, and
Opera. Chrome is so liberal that it draws its own window border.

Opera guys could be limited by the Linux desktop conventions and technical
limitations so they settled with
this
.

As for Firefox, their UX guys respect the platform's conventions so they
didn't add the Firefox
button
to
Firefox 4 Beta (yet, at least). They're also limited by technical issues so
they can't provide the option to add it yet.

The issue is great cross-platform apps are replacing the menu bar with a
menu button (Firefox Button for Firefox, Opera button for Opera, and some
unnamed button for Chrome) and tweaking the window borders. However, they're
limited in the Linux desktop because of technical and UX issues. Tweaking
the window border and menu bar break things and violate conventions.

Conventions in Windows and OS X are evolving (see the ribbon interface and
app buttons on Office, Paint, etc.) while the Linux desktop is limited
(probably) because we can't make new things work everywhere (different
window managers, desktop environments, etc.).

What do we do about this? People involved in the Windicators project (I'm
not) may know something that could help.

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Re: [Ayatana] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

[Allan Caeg]

As far as I know, there wouldn't be. Firefox UX doesn't seem to be looking
at that for any platform. Here are their mockups for
Linux
.

I can raise your concern to them, if you want. I'm just afraid that it may
add inconsistency to the platform. If we want Firefox to put the Firefox
Button/menu beside its toolbar, how about other apps?

What do you think?

On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 2:53 AM, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:

>
> Allan, I haven't followed the Firefox usability and design discussion
> around the Firefox Button, but can you tell us if there will be an
> option to expose the button/menu off a button in the toolbar next to the
> URL, as it is in Chrome? That would be most straightforwardly compatible
> with our direction.
>
> Mark
>
>


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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

[Allan Caeg]

Here's Alex Faaborg's view on Firefox menu on the toolbar and the menu that
Ryan Peters suggested

the app menu looks like it is exactly the type of control we are interested
> in having (both for our own use, and because we think it is a good direction
> for the general design of desktop applications).
>
> To answer Mark Shuttleworth's question:
>
> Allan, I haven't followed the Firefox usability and design discussion
>> around the Firefox Button, but can you tell us if there will be an
>> option to expose the button/menu off a button in the toolbar next to the
>> URL, as it is in Chrome? That would be most straightforwardly compatible
>> with our direction.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
> We are trying to differentiate between browser level commands and commands
> on the particular Web application.  Since the browser is itself a platform,
> we want to draw a clear separation, both visually and interactively.  For
> instance in these mockups the Firefox application button appears on the
> browser background layer while the tabs containing different Web
> applications appear in the foreground of the application:
>
> https://bug572482.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=451656
>
> An additional reason for us to avoid placing the browser level commands on
> the navigation toolbar is that App Tabs (small persistent tabs on the far
> left side of the tab strip) may not have a toolbar, or may even choose to
> expose their own native toolbar using HTML5. (example:
> http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20100625-tabsOnTop/appTabHypotheticalMapApp.png
>  )
> Also note in this example how the app button is placed on the glass
> background layer.
>
> For the more general case of desktop applications that are not themselves a
> platform, we think the app menu is a great control because it merges the
> name of the application and top level commands into a single widget.
> Despite not being standard control on Windows, we are seeing this design get
> some pickup from other applications as well, most recently with the popular
> instant messenger Trillian:
> http://www.trillian.im/learn/tour-trillian5.html
>

Shaun, that sounds cool :)

On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 2:01 AM, Shaun McCance  wrote:

> On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 11:15 -0500, Ryan Peters wrote:
> > > > Help, Check for Updates, and About, that affect the entire program,
> > > > meaning every open window.
> > > "About" is a fair example. But "Help" should be context-sensitive
> > > whenever possible -- showing help relevant to the window you choose it
> > > from.
> > Maybe that could be implemented. The Help option now would simply open
> > the standard help menu for the application at the beginning.
> > Context-sensitiveness could be possible, thought I don't know how the
> > GNOME devs feel about it.
>
> We have a project underway to provide more dynamic and relevant
> help buttons, menus, and other controls. We could probably find
> ways to bring some of that to the application menu. Ping me if
> you're interested.
>
> --
> Shaun
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

[Allan Caeg]

To make things clearer, when he said

> the app menu looks like it is exactly the type of control we are interested
> in having (both for our own use, and because we think it is a good direction
> for the general design of desktop applications).

he was referring to this
menu<http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Design/Whiteboards/AppMenu?action=\>

On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 8:48 AM, Allan Caeg  wrote:

> Here's Alex Faaborg's view on Firefox menu on the toolbar and the menu that
> Ryan Peters suggested
>
> the app menu looks like it is exactly the type of control we are interested
>> in having (both for our own use, and because we think it is a good direction
>> for the general design of desktop applications).
>>
>> To answer Mark Shuttleworth's question:
>>
>>
>> Allan, I haven't followed the Firefox usability and design discussion
>>> around the Firefox Button, but can you tell us if there will be an
>>> option to expose the button/menu off a button in the toolbar next to the
>>> URL, as it is in Chrome? That would be most straightforwardly compatible
>>> with our direction.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>>
>> We are trying to differentiate between browser level commands and commands
>> on the particular Web application.  Since the browser is itself a platform,
>> we want to draw a clear separation, both visually and interactively.  For
>> instance in these mockups the Firefox application button appears on the
>> browser background layer while the tabs containing different Web
>> applications appear in the foreground of the application:
>>
>> https://bug572482.bugzilla.mozilla.org/attachment.cgi?id=451656
>>
>> An additional reason for us to avoid placing the browser level commands on
>> the navigation toolbar is that App Tabs (small persistent tabs on the far
>> left side of the tab strip) may not have a toolbar, or may even choose to
>> expose their own native toolbar using HTML5. (example:
>> http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/20100625-tabsOnTop/appTabHypotheticalMapApp.png
>>  )
>> Also note in this example how the app button is placed on the glass
>> background layer.
>>
>> For the more general case of desktop applications that are not themselves
>> a platform, we think the app menu is a great control because it merges the
>> name of the application and top level commands into a single widget.
>> Despite not being standard control on Windows, we are seeing this design get
>> some pickup from other applications as well, most recently with the popular
>> instant messenger Trillian:
>> http://www.trillian.im/learn/tour-trillian5.html
>>
>
> Shaun, that sounds cool :)
>
> On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 2:01 AM, Shaun McCance  wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 2010-08-06 at 11:15 -0500, Ryan Peters wrote:
>> > > > Help, Check for Updates, and About, that affect the entire program,
>> > > > meaning every open window.
>> > > "About" is a fair example. But "Help" should be context-sensitive
>> > > whenever possible -- showing help relevant to the window you choose it
>> > > from.
>> > Maybe that could be implemented. The Help option now would simply open
>> > the standard help menu for the application at the beginning.
>> > Context-sensitiveness could be possible, thought I don't know how the
>> > GNOME devs feel about it.
>>
>> We have a project underway to provide more dynamic and relevant
>> help buttons, menus, and other controls. We could probably find
>> ways to bring some of that to the application menu. Ping me if
>> you're interested.
>>
>> --
>> Shaun
>>
>>
>> ___
>> usability mailing list
>> usabil...@gnome.org
>> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/usability
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Allan
> http://www.google.com/profiles/AllanCaeg#about<http://www.google.com/profiles/allancaeg#about>
> +63 918 948 2520
>
>


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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

[Allan Caeg]

Not showing the branding while the app is running may reduce cognitive load,
just like what MPT said. However, there are issues with this.
*Apps that are supposed to do the same things have differences that many
people know or need to know.*
Whenever I'm browsing, I have to know that it's Firefox, because Chrome
works differently. Some keystrokes won't work on the other app, some plugins
aren't present, etc.

*When more than one app of the same kind is running, they would be tagged
the same way*
There are cases when we open more than one web browser or music player. For
example, if I want to use two different accounts on one social networking
site, I would run two browsers. Not being able to identify easily which app
is which would be confusing in this case.

*Upstream vendors may want to keep their branding *
Some of them take their marketing so seriously that they won't even consider
this. This may damage our relationship with them, and may cause them to
brand their products in places that will be less fit.

*This could make app launching more complicated*
When I launch Firefox, I would need to look for the Web Browser, Internet
Browser, or whatever window. That is confusing. It's even more complicated
for other apps like Sudoko. What should I expect Sudoku to be named after
launching it with whatever launcher (GNOME Main Menu, GNOME Shell, etc.)

Regards,
Allan
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On Aug 10, 2010 2:05 AM, "Martin Owens"  wrote:
> Ryan,
>
> On Mon, 2010-08-09 at 11:22 -0500, Ryan Peters wrote:
>> While browsers might not be focused on branding, that branding is
>> still
>> there. My point, however, isn't the branding, but the fact that there
>> is
>> a brand. If we treated every web browser as "web browser" or every
>> email
>> client as "email client", how would people tell the difference
>> between
>> them? Branding, with different icons and application names, helps
>> this
>> issue, and there's a healthy level of branding exposure we need to
>> find.
>> If the window borders didn't have the application title, the
>> Application
>> Menu, with the icon as well as the name (so people can more easily
>> recognize the name), fixes this problem because you can tell what
>> application you have open no matter what window is focused, its
>> contents, or what the window title is.
>
> the branding falls back down to the operating system. It's Ubuntu's
> access to facebook etc. not Chrome or Firefox.
>
> Martin.
>
>
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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

[Allan Caeg]

I just noticed that Firefox 4.0 beta 2 on Windows also has a menu
bar<http://imagebin.org/109099>(activated by alt) and its contents are
different from the Firefox
button <http://imagebin.org/109100>'s (some stuff are in both menus,
though). Apparently, the Firefox button isn't a menu bar replacement.

You might also be interested in a fresh mockup of the Firefox button (
http://people.mozilla.com/~faaborg/files/firefox4Mockups/firefoxButtonTwoPanes.png<http://people.mozilla.com/%7Efaaborg/files/firefox4Mockups/firefoxButtonTwoPanes.png>
).


Right now, I can't think of any recommendation to accommodate these. Heeelp.
LOL

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Allan Caeg  wrote:

> Not showing the branding while the app is running may reduce cognitive
> load, just like what MPT said. However, there are issues with this.
> *Apps that are supposed to do the same things have differences that many
> people know or need to know.*
> Whenever I'm browsing, I have to know that it's Firefox, because Chrome
> works differently. Some keystrokes won't work on the other app, some plugins
> aren't present, etc.
>
> *When more than one app of the same kind is running, they would be tagged
> the same way*
> There are cases when we open more than one web browser or music player. For
> example, if I want to use two different accounts on one social networking
> site, I would run two browsers. Not being able to identify easily which app
> is which would be confusing in this case.
>
> *Upstream vendors may want to keep their branding *
> Some of them take their marketing so seriously that they won't even
> consider this. This may damage our relationship with them, and may cause
> them to brand their products in places that will be less fit.
>
> *This could make app launching more complicated*
> When I launch Firefox, I would need to look for the Web Browser, Internet
> Browser, or whatever window. That is confusing. It's even more complicated
> for other apps like Sudoko. What should I expect Sudoku to be named after
> launching it with whatever launcher (GNOME Main Menu, GNOME Shell, etc.)
>
> Regards,
> Allan
> http://google.com/profiles/AllanCaeg
> +63 927 982 0592
>
> On Aug 10, 2010 2:05 AM, "Martin Owens"  wrote:
> > Ryan,
> >
> > On Mon, 2010-08-09 at 11:22 -0500, Ryan Peters wrote:
> >> While browsers might not be focused on branding, that branding is
> >> still
> >> there. My point, however, isn't the branding, but the fact that there
> >> is
> >> a brand. If we treated every web browser as "web browser" or every
> >> email
> >> client as "email client", how would people tell the difference
> >> between
> >> them? Branding, with different icons and application names, helps
> >> this
> >> issue, and there's a healthy level of branding exposure we need to
> >> find.
> >> If the window borders didn't have the application title, the
> >> Application
> >> Menu, with the icon as well as the name (so people can more easily
> >> recognize the name), fixes this problem because you can tell what
> >> application you have open no matter what window is focused, its
> >> contents, or what the window title is.
> >
> > the branding falls back down to the operating system. It's Ubuntu's
> > access to facebook etc. not Chrome or Firefox.
> >
> > Martin.
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://launchpad.net/~ayatana<https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana>
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> > Unsubscribe : 
> > https://launchpad.net/~ayatana<https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana>
> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>



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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

[Allan Caeg]

On Thu, Aug 19, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Mark Shuttleworth  wrote:

>  Me neither :-(
>
> For a while, I thought a windicator would work, but I can't think of a
> relevant status that covers the use cases of the menu other than a
> "tools" icon, which isn't status at all.
>
> Functionally, I think a windicator would work just fine (it's a menu on the
> window decoration, just what the doctor ordered). But it would really be
> messing with the concept, and likely to lead to all sorts of abuse if
> encouraged.
>
> However, in 10.10 Netbook Edition, with Unity, we're already making menus
> much less visible by hiding them under the window title in the panel unless
> invoked with mouse or Alt. That's for the maximised browser window case,
> which is I think the one where the user is most concerned with pixel
> efficiency.
>
> How about if we start with that?
>
> Mark
>

That could work for Unity (though I'm not very familiar with it), but we
also have to think about other platforms. Got to think about something that
will work upstream (GNOME). Let's not forget other desktop environments too.
It's Firefox on the Linux desktop that we're talking about so there's a lot
more to it than its presence on Unity.

Ideas, anyone?

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Re: [Ayatana] [Usability] The Future of Window Borders, Menu Bars, and More

[Allan Caeg]

Oops! That's not what I meant, good sir! I just wanted to make sure that
we're not forgetting other platforms. I love what you and the rest of the
Ubuntu team do. We sometimes just have miscommunications because of
semantics and stuff.

Perhaps, what I should have said was, "thanks for the support from the Unity
side of things and we'll find ways to do the same for other environments."

I apologize, Mark

Regards,
Allan
http://live.gnome.org/AllanCaeg
+63 927 982 0592

Sent mobile

On Aug 19, 2010 7:19 PM, "Mark Shuttleworth"  wrote:
> On 19/08/10 10:48, Allan Caeg wrote:
>> That could work for Unity (though I'm not very familiar with it), but
>> we also have to think about other platforms. Got to think about
>> something that will work upstream (GNOME).
>
> Ah, you touch on my sensitivities!
>
> From our perspective, Unity is "upstream", it's design and lead
> implementation is completely independent of the Ubuntu team. It's also
> as much part of GNOME as something like Zeitgeist and lots of other
> projects that have started out in the wild and moved to the center over
> time. We would like Gnomers to think of it as a proud contribution from
> Canonical, and we're a little hurt when people suggest otherwise. So,
> tread softly when you tread on folks dreams, even if inadvertently ;-)
>
>> Let's not forget other desktop environments too. It's Firefox on the
>> Linux desktop that we're talking about so there's a lot more to it
>> than its presence on Unity.
>
> Indeed, I would expect FF to inspect its environment and use the right
> tools as available, and we'd support making that easy for the Unity case.
>
> Mark
>
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[Ayatana] "About GNOME" on the "System" Menu

[Allan Caeg]

Hello,

Whenever the "System" menu on the panel is opened, the user will see "About
GNOME." It's likely that many people wouldn't understand why they see it
there. If those people are thinking aloud, they would've said
*this*.
As long as "GNOME" is meaningless to the person, the "About GNOME" menu item
would just be a highfaluting geeky thing.

Clicking "About GNOME" opens the gnome-about dialog, which is described on
Synaptic as

> Informative little about thing that lets us brag to our friends as our name
> scrolls by, and lets users click to load the GNOME home pages.
>

We can put details about the GNOME desktop on the "About Ubuntu" section,
because that's more likely to be clicked and it makes sense anyway. We can
also make it more hardworking than the gnome-about dialog in terms of
informing people about the GNOME free desktop project.

What solutions can you suggest to present information about the GNOME
desktop in a more meaningful and less obtrusive way?

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[Ayatana] Rendering Status of Elements when Lens is Active

[Allan Caeg]

There's an inconsistency in rendering status of elements while a Lens is
active. As seen here
http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/zty9kgns/Workspace1_003.png , the Unity
Launcher is grayed out, while the top panel isn't.

With this identified, how should the top panel be treated? Visually, it
needs a differentiation from the normal clickable state.

On the other hand, we can also consider changing the panel's behavior
instead of the visual treatment, like how it's done on GNOME Shell while on
Overview http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/8yunbmeb/Workspace2_008.png . Let's
keep in mind that Lens and Overview may not be apples to apples in this
case, though. Does it really make sense to make the panel inactive while a
Lens is active? It may, but this will also depend on future plans for Unity.

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[Ayatana] [Unity Launcher] Mouse hover, click, and active visual states

[Allan Caeg]

Hello,

Button states (mouse hovered, clicked, active, and normal) communicate to
the user what responses are associated to buttons. The Unity Launcher is one
of the elements of the Unity desktop that will get the most mouse
interactions and very much deserves visual representation of button states.

This is especially relevant for the app icons and the Ubuntu button
(whatever their proper names are). The app icons show feedback when hovered
by showing a tooltip, which may or may not be a clear enough effect so
please assess this one. The other state that's currently covered is
"selected," which is shown by an
arrow
.

Keyboard-focus has a nice selection highlight, which can be used for other
purposes like mouse hover. They're very similar anyway. However,
keyboard-focus could also use the tooltip that tells the user the name of
the app he's currently focusing on. Maybe, both hover and keyboard-focus can
use the combination of highlight and tooltip.

There are also missing button states like when an app icon is clicked and
when doing "Scale" for one app. On OS X, clicking an app icon on the dock
will make the icon dark and "Scale" for one app will make all other app
icons dark. We don't have to do it the way OS X does it, but there should be
visual representations of these states.

It could be too late for Natty, but it would be nice if some button states
can have the right feedback in time for 11.04.

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Re: [Ayatana] [Unity Launcher] Mouse hover, click, and active visual states

[Allan Caeg]

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Marco Biscaro
wrote:

> I think that it's a good idea. It will provide a better feedback of what is
> happening (and about the tooltip on keyboard navigation, it will help on
> accessibility). About the home button, the pressed state is already
> implemented, but is waiting approval from design team (see
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/748676).
>

Great! Nice to know this is in the pipe :)


> I think this is less important than the first point, but it's another thing
> to consider. Maybe the first problem can be solved to natty, but the scale
> toggle, for example, can be targeted only for oneiric.
>

+1. Would be awesome if it makes it to Natty, but still better in Oneric
than never


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Re: [Ayatana] Rendering Status of Elements when Lens is Active

[Allan Caeg]

That's a nice mockup. I wonder if the direction changed since then, because
Unity was just updated to change the Dash visual
design<http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/9263/workspace1002u.png>whenever
a Lens is open to
fix this bug <https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/750358>.

Now, I wonder why only Dash is desaturated, while the panel is also inactive
when a Lens is open.

On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Ingo Gerth  wrote:

> I am totally with you on this one. It looks like the original design was
> intended to be a bit different, check out this beautiful mockup:
> https://launchpadlibrarian.net/68218500/unity_dash_01.png (Taken from
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ayatana-design/+bug/750374 )
> There is a very clear division between launcher, dash, and panel (actually
> becoming part of the dash), which we do not have right now.
>
> I am not sure what happened to that concept, but it might just be that
> there was not enough time this cycle to implement the design exactly like
> that.
>
> Otherwise it would be great to hear from one of the Unity devs what the
> reasons are why the current dash does not look like the one in that
> screenshot.
>
> --Ingo
>
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 3:22 AM, Allan Caeg  wrote:
>
>> There's an inconsistency in rendering status of elements while a Lens is
>> active. As seen here
>> http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/zty9kgns/Workspace1_003.png , the Unity
>> Launcher is grayed out, while the top panel isn't.
>>
>> With this identified, how should the top panel be treated? Visually, it
>> needs a differentiation from the normal clickable state.
>>
>> On the other hand, we can also consider changing the panel's behavior
>> instead of the visual treatment, like how it's done on GNOME Shell while on
>> Overview http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/8yunbmeb/Workspace2_008.png .
>> Let's keep in mind that Lens and Overview may not be apples to apples in
>> this case, though. Does it really make sense to make the panel inactive
>> while a Lens is active? It may, but this will also depend on future plans
>> for Unity.
>>
>> --
>> Regards,
>> Allan
>> http://www.google.com/profiles/AllanCaeg#about<http://www.google.com/profiles/allancaeg#about>
>> +63 918 948 2520
>>
>>
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>>
>


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