Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby
In my Grandfather's family plot we have a lady buried there who is not related to the family in any way. Fortunately, my mother and aunt told me who she was. This woman worked for my Grandfather for years and she had no family. My Grandfather told her not to worry and that his family who always be hers. When she died, she was buried in the family plot. Also, there are two babies buried in my Mother and Father's plots. One, was the still born son of a close family friend who was born about 42 years ago and the other is the infant daughter of my goddaughter born about 22 years ago. Neither of these families had a lot of money to buy a plot and we made the offer and they accepted. Mary Ann In a message dated 4/22/2012 7:53:40 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, mgilfilia...@gmail.com writes: In my family burial plot at the St. John's Cemetery in New Bedford, Ma. there are 2 infant girls buried there. The woman in the office said they wouldn't be there if they weren't related by blood. The problem is they each have a different last name than what I currently know. From the New England Historic genealogic society's site I have the following, Estrella(Stella) Duarte died April 6th an buried April 8th 1893, F, 4 months 17 days, spasm of larnyx, born and died New Bedford, father Manuel born Fayal, mother Maria Nunes born New Bedford. It's possible Manuel is my 3rd great grandfather because he was alive til 1896 but Maria Nunes we have no clue. The other infant is Emilia(Emily) S. Couto, died Aug 19th buried aug 20th 1888, F, 9 months 10 days, Cholera, born an died in New Bedford, father is Francisco S. born Fayal, mother Rosa G born Fayal. we have clue about any of these names. does anyone have any ideas of where to look??? researching; grt grandmother maria pereira(pine then o'neill then mcnaney), 2nd grt grandparents antonio silveira pereira(fayal)+maria leal pereira(pico), 3rd grt grandfather manuel joaquin leal(pico), jose joao pacheco died 1918 buried on top of Manuel Leal relation unknown, grt grandfather jose francis pinheiro(cedros) -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby
A little late on this thread, but I have the same problem at St Mary's in Oakland. My GG Grandfather (Luis Fernandes) is buried in an unmarked grave (in the regular section, not the poor) and with him are two children both named Manuel. One was 6 months old and the other 7 years old. I am pretty certain that the 6 month old was my great grandparent's (Manuel Fernandes Maria Perreira) first child. However, the 7 year old is a mystery. My GG Grandmother would have been too old to be the mother and my G Grandmother would have had to have had him when she was 15 or 16 and not married. Technically possible, but not likely. That story would have made the family grape vine for sure. So, it could be a neighbors child or a friends child. Who knows? There was nothing in the burial records that gave any hint and my search for his birth record came up empty using the family's last name. Jacki From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Karen Huffman Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 11:28 AM To: azores@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby Another perspective on the plots/graves...My 1st husband died at 25. We had a 3 year old and I was pregnant with our 2nd. I had every intention of being buried with him when the time came. 20 years laterI was remarried and had another child. My 1st husband's family asked me if they could use the plot/grave because his aunt had died and they didn't have the money to bury her in the nicer section. I was torn as to what to do. Being a good catholic the guilt of any decision was eating me. I gave the family the plot. Still makes me feel funny all these years later. His aunt is buried with him but it still causes my heart sadness. Don't look at it as what the heck were they thinking because some things are done with a heavy heart. Unless you are there in the circumstances, you just don't know. Karen :) On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 10:59 AM, celeste perry ccgran...@yahoo.com wrote: During the years I extracted the information from books (14 of them) for the first Catholic cemetery in Hayward, I ran into a lot of things that did not make sense to me. One was that in some cases families were able to purchase a plot with one to several graves. I have seen copies of the deed to the plots and the graves are listed. That was in one set of books. Another set of books was the plot books. I think there were 4 of these books. The plots were listed in the order they were sold and the people buried in the plots were listed as to the grave number or in the SW corner, etc. of the plot. The cemetery was begun in 1875 (I believe) and still continues to have burials; however, not very many of them. The reason I am trying to explaine the possible burial sites of those enterred in this cemetery is very different due to several factors. Each priest that was at All Saint may have different ideas as to who could and who could not be buried in a purchased plot. While I was working for 4 years on this extraction, I met many people who were looking for their families and they shared their oral history with me about the burial of their families. In several cases, the names of those buried in a plot did not match the person who had purchased the plot. I was told that it was a neighbor who died and could not afford to purchase a grave. There were also graves purchased by Portuguese Fraternal Societies to bury their members that did not have the means to purchase a grave. There were a large number of infants buried in 1918 (I suspect it was the flu epidemic) and in the cases where addresses were given for the deceased, whole neighborhoods lost many children and elderly people. Again, several were buried in places where the names of the owner of the plot was different from those being buried. I am sharing some possible reasons that the plot you think will contain your ancestor may or may not have others with different names buried with them. The oral histories shared with me told of many reasons; some were godchildren; some were neighbors; some said the priest asked the family to bury the person and my personal account of an uncle who died at the age of 3 months and was buried with the lady who was being buried that day. This oral history was from my grandmother (the baby's mother) and she told me several times that because she did not have the $5.00 in 1917, he was buried with this person she did not even know! She never forgot that her son was with a stranger and that it was the priest's fault. An interesting point for this burial is that they were buried in what was called the poor ground for those who could not affort to pay for a grave. In my grandmother's opinion, her son did not get the chance to have his own grave. When I run into something like a person being buried with people I don't recognize, I try to look at it in other ways and not only that the person is a relative. Celeste
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby
Michael, Re St. John's Cemetery, I know of cases where sometimes they were buried with cousins, in-laws, etc. I just had a cousin buried at St. John's not too long ago and I believe the gravesite was owned by one of her in-laws or a cousin or some such who had been buried there years ago but there was still an available plot. My aunt's husband is buried in our family plot...I have no idea why my aunt, other than the fact she wanted her husband buried with her, had him buried there as the spaces were suppose to be reserved for immediate family members. I know there are still 2 available plots and I am told her daughters will be buried in them. I know my mom and her other living sister had to give permission to my aunt to use these spaces quite a few years ago. I also have a brother buried with them and he has a different surname than the owner of the plots (my grandfather) and since my mom had remarried, we hyphenated both her marriage names to make the connection. Also, my great-grandmother's name is on the stone but she is not buried there. I was told way back when they would do this and send the body back to Portugal for burial. E -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby
Michael, I have in my family an Uncle and nephew buried in the same plot in Benicia CA. The child, my Mom's brother, died when they lived in Benicia(1920's). The family then moved to Monterey. My Mom's uncle then died in Benicia (1950's) and had no money to bury him so my Mom's father gave the plot to his family. Therefore we have an uncle and a nephew buried together, both named Souza, in the same plot. Rosemarie In my family burial plot at the St. John's Cemetery in New Bedford, Ma. there are 2 infant girls buried there. The woman in the office said they wouldn't be there if they weren't related by blood. The problem is they each have a different last name than what I currently know. From the New England Historic genealogic society's site I have the following, Estrella(Stella) Duarte died April 6th an buried April 8th 1893, F, 4 months 17 days, spasm of larnyx, born and died New Bedford, father Manuel born Fayal, mother Maria Nunes born New Bedford. It's possible Manuel is my 3rd great grandfather because he was alive til 1896 but Maria Nunes we have no clue. The other infant is Emilia(Emily) S. Couto, died Aug 19th buried aug 20th 1888, F, 9 months 10 days, Cholera, born an died in New Bedford, father is Francisco S. born Fayal, mother Rosa G born Fayal. we have clue about any of these names. does anyone have any ideas of where to look??? researching; grt grandmother maria pereira(pine then o'neill then mcnaney), 2nd grt grandparents antonio silveira pereira(fayal)+maria leal pereira(pico), 3rd grt grandfather manuel joaquin leal(pico), jose joao pacheco died 1918 buried on top of Manuel Leal relation unknown, grt grandfather jose francis pinheiro(cedros) -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership. -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby
During the years I extracted the information from books (14 of them) for the first Catholic cemetery in Hayward, I ran into a lot of things that did not make sense to me. One was that in some cases families were able to purchase a plot with one to several graves. I have seen copies of the deed to the plots and the graves are listed. That was in one set of books. Another set of books was the plot books. I think there were 4 of these books. The plots were listed in the order they were sold and the people buried in the plots were listed as to the grave number or in the SW corner, etc. of the plot. The cemetery was begun in 1875 (I believe) and still continues to have burials; however, not very many of them. The reason I am trying to explaine the possible burial sites of those enterred in this cemetery is very different due to several factors. Each priest that was at All Saint may have different ideas as to who could and who could not be buried in a purchased plot. While I was working for 4 years on this extraction, I met many people who were looking for their families and they shared their oral history with me about the burial of their families. In several cases, the names of those buried in a plot did not match the person who had purchased the plot. I was told that it was a neighbor who died and could not afford to purchase a grave. There were also graves purchased by Portuguese Fraternal Societies to bury their members that did not have the means to purchase a grave. There were a large number of infants buried in 1918 (I suspect it was the flu epidemic) and in the cases where addresses were given for the deceased, whole neighborhoods lost many children and elderly people. Again, several were buried in places where the names of the owner of the plot was different from those being buried. I am sharing some possible reasons that the plot you think will contain your ancestor may or may not have others with different names buried with them. The oral histories shared with me told of many reasons; some were godchildren; some were neighbors; some said the priest asked the family to bury the person and my personal account of an uncle who died at the age of 3 months and was buried with the lady who was being buried that day. This oral history was from my grandmother (the baby's mother) and she told me several times that because she did not have the $5.00 in 1917, he was buried with this person she did not even know! She never forgot that her son was with a stranger and that it was the priest's fault. An interesting point for this burial is that they were buried in what was called the poor ground for those who could not affort to pay for a grave. In my grandmother's opinion, her son did not get the chance to have his own grave. When I run into something like a person being buried with people I don't recognize, I try to look at it in other ways and not only that the person is a relative. Celeste, Hayward, CA Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com From: rcap...@redshift.com rcap...@redshift.com To: azores@googlegroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:44 AM Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby Michael, I have in my family an Uncle and nephew buried in the same plot in Benicia CA. The child, my Mom's brother, died when they lived in Benicia(1920's). The family then moved to Monterey. My Mom's uncle then died in Benicia (1950's) and had no money to bury him so my Mom's father gave the plot to his family. Therefore we have an uncle and a nephew buried together, both named Souza, in the same plot. Rosemarie In my family burial plot at the St. John's Cemetery in New Bedford, Ma. there are 2 infant girls buried there. The woman in the office said they wouldn't be there if they weren't related by blood. The problem is they each have a different last name than what I currently know. From the New England Historic genealogic society's site I have the following, Estrella(Stella) Duarte died April 6th an buried April 8th 1893, F, 4 months 17 days, spasm of larnyx, born and died New Bedford, father Manuel born Fayal, mother Maria Nunes born New Bedford. It's possible Manuel is my 3rd great grandfather because he was alive til 1896 but Maria Nunes we have no clue. The other infant is Emilia(Emily) S. Couto, died Aug 19th buried aug 20th 1888, F, 9 months 10 days, Cholera, born an died in New Bedford, father is Francisco S. born Fayal, mother Rosa G born Fayal. we have clue about any of these names. does anyone have any ideas of where to look??? researching; grt grandmother maria pereira(pine then o'neill then mcnaney), 2nd grt grandparents antonio silveira pereira(fayal)+maria leal pereira(pico), 3rd grt grandfather manuel joaquin leal(pico), jose joao pacheco died 1918 buried on top of Manuel Leal relation unknown, grt grandfather jose francis pinheiro(cedros) -- To unsubscribe from
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby
Another perspective on the plots/graves...My 1st husband died at 25. We had a 3 year old and I was pregnant with our 2nd. I had every intention of being buried with him when the time came. 20 years laterI was remarried and had another child. My 1st husband's family asked me if they could use the plot/grave because his aunt had died and they didn't have the money to bury her in the nicer section. I was torn as to what to do. Being a good catholic the guilt of any decision was eating me. I gave the family the plot. Still makes me feel funny all these years later. His aunt is buried with him but it still causes my heart sadness. Don't look at it as what the heck were they thinking because some things are done with a heavy heart. Unless you are there in the circumstances, you just don't know. Karen :) On Sun, Apr 22, 2012 at 10:59 AM, celeste perry ccgran...@yahoo.com wrote: During the years I extracted the information from books (14 of them) for the first Catholic cemetery in Hayward, I ran into a lot of things that did not make sense to me. One was that in some cases families were able to purchase a plot with one to several graves. I have seen copies of the deed to the plots and the graves are listed. That was in one set of books. Another set of books was the plot books. I think there were 4 of these books. The plots were listed in the order they were sold and the people buried in the plots were listed as to the grave number or in the SW corner, etc. of the plot. The cemetery was begun in 1875 (I believe) and still continues to have burials; however, not very many of them. The reason I am trying to explaine the possible burial sites of those enterred in this cemetery is very different due to several factors. Each priest that was at All Saint may have different ideas as to who could and who could not be buried in a purchased plot. While I was working for 4 years on this extraction, I met many people who were looking for their families and they shared their oral history with me about the burial of their families. In several cases, the names of those buried in a plot did not match the person who had purchased the plot. I was told that it was a neighbor who died and could not afford to purchase a grave. There were also graves purchased by Portuguese Fraternal Societies to bury their members that did not have the means to purchase a grave. There were a large number of infants buried in 1918 (I suspect it was the flu epidemic) and in the cases where addresses were given for the deceased, whole neighborhoods lost many children and elderly people. Again, several were buried in places where the names of the owner of the plot was different from those being buried. I am sharing some possible reasons that the plot you think will contain your ancestor may or may not have others with different names buried with them. The oral histories shared with me told of many reasons; some were godchildren; some were neighbors; some said the priest asked the family to bury the person and my personal account of an uncle who died at the age of 3 months and was buried with the lady who was being buried that day. This oral history was from my grandmother (the baby's mother) and she told me several times that because she did not have the $5.00 in 1917, he was buried with this person she did not even know! She never forgot that her son was with a stranger and that it was the priest's fault. An interesting point for this burial is that they were buried in what was called the poor ground for those who could not affort to pay for a grave. In my grandmother's opinion, her son did not get the chance to have his own grave. When I run into something like a person being buried with people I don't recognize, I try to look at it in other ways and not only that the person is a relative. Celeste, Hayward, CA Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com *From:* rcap...@redshift.com rcap...@redshift.com *To:* azores@googlegroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:44 AM *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby Michael, I have in my family an Uncle and nephew buried in the same plot in Benicia CA. The child, my Mom's brother, died when they lived in Benicia(1920's). The family then moved to Monterey. My Mom's uncle then died in Benicia (1950's) and had no money to bury him so my Mom's father gave the plot to his family. Therefore we have an uncle and a nephew buried together, both named Souza, in the same plot. Rosemarie In my family burial plot at the St. John's Cemetery in New Bedford, Ma. there are 2 infant girls buried there. The woman in the office said they wouldn't be there if they weren't related by blood. The problem is they each have a different last name than what I currently know. From the New England Historic genealogic society's site I have the following, Estrella(Stella) Duarte died April 6th an buried April 8th 1893, F, 4 months 17
Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby
Well that sounds like figuring out who the two infant girls and the one unknown man is going to be a challenge. There are still two open graves, i'm hoping that St. John the Baptist church is where the girls were baptized and there will be some full names on the certificate for parents or sponsors. If you don't know for sure is there any way to discover records of family left in Portugal or records of the town our village they came from? Out is that a matter of time searching... On Apr 22, 2012 1:59 PM, celeste perry ccgran...@yahoo.com wrote: During the years I extracted the information from books (14 of them) for the first Catholic cemetery in Hayward, I ran into a lot of things that did not make sense to me. One was that in some cases families were able to purchase a plot with one to several graves. I have seen copies of the deed to the plots and the graves are listed. That was in one set of books. Another set of books was the plot books. I think there were 4 of these books. The plots were listed in the order they were sold and the people buried in the plots were listed as to the grave number or in the SW corner, etc. of the plot. The cemetery was begun in 1875 (I believe) and still continues to have burials; however, not very many of them. The reason I am trying to explaine the possible burial sites of those enterred in this cemetery is very different due to several factors. Each priest that was at All Saint may have different ideas as to who could and who could not be buried in a purchased plot. While I was working for 4 years on this extraction, I met many people who were looking for their families and they shared their oral history with me about the burial of their families. In several cases, the names of those buried in a plot did not match the person who had purchased the plot. I was told that it was a neighbor who died and could not afford to purchase a grave. There were also graves purchased by Portuguese Fraternal Societies to bury their members that did not have the means to purchase a grave. There were a large number of infants buried in 1918 (I suspect it was the flu epidemic) and in the cases where addresses were given for the deceased, whole neighborhoods lost many children and elderly people. Again, several were buried in places where the names of the owner of the plot was different from those being buried. I am sharing some possible reasons that the plot you think will contain your ancestor may or may not have others with different names buried with them. The oral histories shared with me told of many reasons; some were godchildren; some were neighbors; some said the priest asked the family to bury the person and my personal account of an uncle who died at the age of 3 months and was buried with the lady who was being buried that day. This oral history was from my grandmother (the baby's mother) and she told me several times that because she did not have the $5.00 in 1917, he was buried with this person she did not even know! She never forgot that her son was with a stranger and that it was the priest's fault. An interesting point for this burial is that they were buried in what was called the poor ground for those who could not affort to pay for a grave. In my grandmother's opinion, her son did not get the chance to have his own grave. When I run into something like a person being buried with people I don't recognize, I try to look at it in other ways and not only that the person is a relative. Celeste, Hayward, CA Celeste Perry ccgran...@yahoo.com *From:* rcap...@redshift.com rcap...@redshift.com *To:* azores@googlegroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:44 AM *Subject:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby Michael, I have in my family an Uncle and nephew buried in the same plot in Benicia CA. The child, my Mom's brother, died when they lived in Benicia(1920's). The family then moved to Monterey. My Mom's uncle then died in Benicia (1950's) and had no money to bury him so my Mom's father gave the plot to his family. Therefore we have an uncle and a nephew buried together, both named Souza, in the same plot. Rosemarie In my family burial plot at the St. John's Cemetery in New Bedford, Ma. there are 2 infant girls buried there. The woman in the office said they wouldn't be there if they weren't related by blood. The problem is they each have a different last name than what I currently know. From the New England Historic genealogic society's site I have the following, Estrella(Stella) Duarte died April 6th an buried April 8th 1893, F, 4 months 17 days, spasm of larnyx, born and died New Bedford, father Manuel born Fayal, mother Maria Nunes born New Bedford. It's possible Manuel is my 3rd great grandfather because he was alive til 1896 but Maria Nunes we have no clue. The other infant is Emilia(Emily) S. Couto, died Aug 19th buried aug 20th 1888, F, 9 months 10 days
Re: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] who's baby
Michael, If you give the people on this list the names you are researching, where the lived in the US, when they came to this country (a fair guess is OK), any idea of what island they might have come from, birthyears (or close to it) you just might be surprised what we can come up with. Do you have any of the following: ship's manifest, census records, US birth/death records, this will help us so we do not duplicate the information. Again, you might be surprised to find out you are related to person(s) on this list. E -- To unsubscribe from this group, send email to azores+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. Follow the confirmation directions when they arrive. For more options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says Join this group and it will take you to Edit my membership.
