Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
I'm not a developer, and have only started to try to teach myself programming (slow going given my time-constraints and other demands on my time) so my $.02 is probably worth $.002 after the exchange-rate, but while reading this thread I thought that it would be neat if a bacula API were developed that other languages could hook into. That was python, ruby, perl, whatever could be used. Then again, I'm looking at it from a non-programmer viewpoint, so it's easy for me to say... so to speak. I wouldn't have to program or document the API. On Tuesday 06 November 2007 4:47:29 pm Ben Beuchler wrote: On 10/31/07, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: see http://bugs.bacula.org/view.php?id=998 After version 2.2.x Python will no longer be support -- there are an insufficient number of users. Oy vey! I am even as we speak working on implementing some Python code to handle volume labeling! -Ben - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users -- -- Flak Magnet (Tim) www.flakmagnet.com - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
On Monday 05 November 2007 13:12, Arno Lehmann wrote: Hi, I'm sending this to the list - I suppose you wanted it to go there, too. 05.11.2007 10:58,, Rich wrote:: On 2007.11.04. 23:02, Arno Lehmann wrote: ... True. But chances might be better to find such a person if python was left in... if we had it in Bacula (as long as possible - Bacula core development might some day get incompatible with how python is embedded today - ) that might be a starting point for someone who knows python's inside well enough. There are problems with the embedded Python: 1. Very few people use it. 2. I think most people would prefer Perl 3. It doesn't function perfectly since it is impossible to call certain functions. I forgot the details but it is pretty annoying. 4. The links always print warning messages because they continue for something like 4 versions now to use deprecated code for temp files that has security problems. 5. The linking code is really quite complicated. 6. Python is single threaded, which means that if multiple Bacula threads try to use Python at the same time, I have to block them allowing only one to run at a time. 7. Given the above I would rather not support it -- and no one else is likely to come forward and do so. Anyone of you active on the python developers mailing list? There might be someone around who would support pythons embedding in other hardware looking for a nice project (with not too many support issues currently...) so i'm a bit puzzled here now. python vs labelformat - which will get booted ? :) I don't have any intention of doing away with the basic labelformat. However the vars code will eventually go, because it is mind bogglingly complicated and doesn't really have all the functionality that the user wants. I was hoping to replace it with the Python code, but Python just didn't work out. I don't know... there seem to be problems with either of those. LabelFormat is hard to understand and inflexible (in comparison with a python script). Yes, so use Python for the moment. At some point you may have to change, though I hope to provide you a way to get to Python without having it linked in -- since I don't yet have it running, I cannot say what changes it may need to the scripts. Python requires more maintenance. What we'll end up with I have no idea. Kern knows, perhaps, so I cc'ed him. Yes, I have a good idea, am working on it, but aside from a dummy little demo (1/20 th of what I need), it is vaporware. i'd really like to get this working on the test system, where i can freely debug python, if needed. i could roll it out with labelformat, but if that breaks in a year (and python is kept), i'll have a bigger problem. I guess that a final decision will not be made before version 3 is in the pipeline. Version 3.0, probably won't be out until June of 2008 at the best. I hope it will have a better alternative. Once I am sure I have a better solution, all the old stuff will be removed in the following version -- after announcing it. As far as I know, Kern is currently fixing things in the 2.2 versions, and thinking about major projects to put into version 3. Yes, 2.2.6 is due out in a week or so, and is a pure bug fix. The current 2.2.5 is looking really stable, and most of the bugs I have been fixing for the last few months are long standing one ... If, during the initial coding of version 3, problems with LabelFormat or python develop, a decision will be made. I'm not in a position to foresee what will happen, or even which option - LabelFormat or python - is more likely to be dropped, though. Both Python and variables for LabelFormat are likely to remain in in the initial 3.0 release. Unless I have a Python replacement, which is unlikely. Regards, Kern - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
On 10/31/07, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: see http://bugs.bacula.org/view.php?id=998 After version 2.2.x Python will no longer be support -- there are an insufficient number of users. Oy vey! I am even as we speak working on implementing some Python code to handle volume labeling! -Ben - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
Hello, 06.11.2007 20:44,, Kern Sibbald wrote:: Thanks for clarifying this. On Monday 05 November 2007 13:12, Arno Lehmann wrote: ... True. But chances might be better to find such a person if python was left in... if we had it in Bacula (as long as possible - Bacula core development might some day get incompatible with how python is embedded today - ) that might be a starting point for someone who knows python's inside well enough. There are problems with the embedded Python: 1. Very few people use it. Possible. I wouldn't claim to know this, though :-) I suppose there are more users of it than we see here. 2. I think most people would prefer Perl Actually, I start to prefer python - much more readable after a while, for part-time programmers like I am one. 3. It doesn't function perfectly since it is impossible to call certain functions. I forgot the details but it is pretty annoying. Yes, that's something I and others noticed. In fact, this would need to be fixed - by someone who knows how. 4. The links always print warning messages because they continue for something like 4 versions now to use deprecated code for temp files that has security problems. Yes, I even reported this to you once :-) 5. The linking code is really quite complicated. Hmm. I've been playing with embedding python into a C program, and found it reasonably straightforward. And that's from someone who ususally only uses ./configure make make install :-) 6. Python is single threaded, which means that if multiple Bacula threads try to use Python at the same time, I have to block them allowing only one to run at a time. That's a serious problem, I think. 7. Given the above I would rather not support it -- and no one else is likely to come forward and do so. The support issue is probably the thing with the most weight here. But you wrote you would rather not, so I assume if someone is found who will help you with it, your decision might change? ... Both Python and variables for LabelFormat are likely to remain in in the initial 3.0 release. Unless I have a Python replacement, which is unlikely. So we can plan for about one year now. Good enough for me. Arno Regards, Kern -- Arno Lehmann IT-Service Lehmann www.its-lehmann.de - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
you probably wanted to send this to list ;) On 2007.11.05. 13:01, Marek Simon wrote: I think some scripting support is good for various hacking and unusual solutions, but I think python is kind of exotical language. Very few users know it, very few projects is written in it and on universities it's tought very rarely. May be some other language would be appriciate. it's not that exotic, actually. you can even write openoffice.org macros in it :) as for the language itself, i can't comment. i don't code, and if i can configure it for my liking once, that's all i want. oh, and i also want it not to break on upgrades =) MArek ... -- Rich - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
Hi, I'm sending this to the list - I suppose you wanted it to go there, too. 05.11.2007 10:58,, Rich wrote:: On 2007.11.04. 23:02, Arno Lehmann wrote: ... True. But chances might be better to find such a person if python was left in... if we had it in Bacula (as long as possible - Bacula core development might some day get incompatible with how python is embedded today - ) that might be a starting point for someone who knows python's inside well enough. Anyone of you active on the python developers mailing list? There might be someone around who would support pythons embedding in other hardware looking for a nice project (with not too many support issues currently...) so i'm a bit puzzled here now. python vs labelformat - which will get booted ? :) I don't know... there seem to be problems with either of those. LabelFormat is hard to understand and inflexible (in comparison with a python script). Python requires more maintenance. What we'll end up with I have no idea. Kern knows, perhaps, so I cc'ed him. i'd really like to get this working on the test system, where i can freely debug python, if needed. i could roll it out with labelformat, but if that breaks in a year (and python is kept), i'll have a bigger problem. I guess that a final decision will not be made before version 3 is in the pipeline. As far as I know, Kern is currently fixing things in the 2.2 versions, and thinking about major projects to put into version 3. If, during the initial coding of version 3, problems with LabelFormat or python develop, a decision will be made. I'm not in a position to foresee what will happen, or even which option - LabelFormat or python - is more likely to be dropped, though. Arno -- Arno Lehmann IT-Service Lehmann www.its-lehmann.de - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
Hi, 03.11.2007 20:32,, Dan Langille wrote:: On 3 Nov 2007 at 19:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: El jue, 01-11-2007 a las 10:12 +0100, Arno Lehmann escribió: Hi, 31.10.2007 18:28,, Rich wrote:: see http://bugs.bacula.org/view.php?id=998 After version 2.2.x Python will no longer be support -- there are an insufficient number of users. Oops... I missed that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! which kinda worries me a bit. what about Label Format directive ? if python was supposed to replace it, but is being removed itself... will this directive stay supported ? arno, i guess you will not have to devote time for python scripts anymore ;) I'd rather try to nag Kern to keep python in there. Once I get around to setting up a new backup server here in the office, I do have some plans with python :-) ... The issue is one of support. When a bug arises, someone has to fix it. At present, that someone is Kern. Bacula needs more people that can fix those bugs. True. But chances might be better to find such a person if python was left in... if we had it in Bacula (as long as possible - Bacula core development might some day get incompatible with how python is embedded today - ) that might be a starting point for someone who knows python's inside well enough. Anyone of you active on the python developers mailing list? There might be someone around who would support pythons embedding in other hardware looking for a nice project (with not too many support issues currently...) Arno -- Arno Lehmann IT-Service Lehmann www.its-lehmann.de - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
El jue, 01-11-2007 a las 10:12 +0100, Arno Lehmann escribió: Hi, 31.10.2007 18:28,, Rich wrote:: see http://bugs.bacula.org/view.php?id=998 After version 2.2.x Python will no longer be support -- there are an insufficient number of users. Oops... I missed that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! which kinda worries me a bit. what about Label Format directive ? if python was supposed to replace it, but is being removed itself... will this directive stay supported ? arno, i guess you will not have to devote time for python scripts anymore ;) I'd rather try to nag Kern to keep python in there. Once I get around to setting up a new backup server here in the office, I do have some plans with python :-) Arno +1 ! By now my first approach on Oracle RMAN + Bacula will be running predefined shell script + rman scripts launched from bacula but the next step ( once we have all scripts stable ) is to create some tables in bacula catalog where will be stored data from each oracle database/instance and create a set of menu options ( a dream: Bacula rman plugin ) and directly perform database backup/restore from bacula ( instruct bacula to restore and recover datafile test.dbf on database orcl, for example ) and afaik phyton is the way to go if I don't wanna load Kern with more work to do. D. - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
On 3 Nov 2007 at 19:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: El jue, 01-11-2007 a las 10:12 +0100, Arno Lehmann escribió: Hi, 31.10.2007 18:28,, Rich wrote:: see http://bugs.bacula.org/view.php?id=998 After version 2.2.x Python will no longer be support -- there are an insufficient number of users. Oops... I missed that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! which kinda worries me a bit. what about Label Format directive ? if python was supposed to replace it, but is being removed itself... will this directive stay supported ? arno, i guess you will not have to devote time for python scripts anymore ;) I'd rather try to nag Kern to keep python in there. Once I get around to setting up a new backup server here in the office, I do have some plans with python :-) Arno +1 ! By now my first approach on Oracle RMAN + Bacula will be running predefined shell script + rman scripts launched from bacula but the next step ( once we have all scripts stable ) is to create some tables in bacula catalog where will be stored data from each oracle database/instance and create a set of menu options ( a dream: Bacula rman plugin ) and directly perform database backup/restore from bacula ( instruct bacula to restore and recover datafile test.dbf on database orcl, for example ) and afaik phyton is the way to go if I don't wanna load Kern with more work to do. The issue is one of support. When a bug arises, someone has to fix it. At present, that someone is Kern. Bacula needs more people that can fix those bugs. -- Dan Langille - http://www.langille.org/ Available for hire: http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
Hi, 31.10.2007 18:28,, Rich wrote:: see http://bugs.bacula.org/view.php?id=998 After version 2.2.x Python will no longer be support -- there are an insufficient number of users. Oops... I missed that. Thanks for bringing it to my attention! which kinda worries me a bit. what about Label Format directive ? if python was supposed to replace it, but is being removed itself... will this directive stay supported ? arno, i guess you will not have to devote time for python scripts anymore ;) I'd rather try to nag Kern to keep python in there. Once I get around to setting up a new backup server here in the office, I do have some plans with python :-) Arno -- Arno Lehmann IT-Service Lehmann www.its-lehmann.de - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
Or perhaps if there are any coders on this list who would band together to keep this part alive and perhaps take the ownership for this piece of the puzzle off Kern's hands? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steen Sent: 01 November 2007 01:01 To: bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal On Wednesday 31 October 2007 20:49:30 Michael Short wrote: I plan to make use of this feature within the next few months... This is really disturbing news. -Michael On Oct 31, 2007 12:28 PM, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: see http://bugs.bacula.org/view.php?id=998 After version 2.2.x Python will no longer be support -- there are an insufficient number of users. I was thinking of this as a kind of guarantee that you could always use this to get what you wanted if by no other way. Maybe it was too early to call it off - if the users show up maybe there is still hope. -- Regards Steen - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
[Bacula-users] python support removal
see http://bugs.bacula.org/view.php?id=998 After version 2.2.x Python will no longer be support -- there are an insufficient number of users. which kinda worries me a bit. what about Label Format directive ? if python was supposed to replace it, but is being removed itself... will this directive stay supported ? arno, i guess you will not have to devote time for python scripts anymore ;) -- Rich - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
I plan to make use of this feature within the next few months... This is really disturbing news. -Michael On Oct 31, 2007 12:28 PM, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: see http://bugs.bacula.org/view.php?id=998 After version 2.2.x Python will no longer be support -- there are an insufficient number of users. which kinda worries me a bit. what about Label Format directive ? if python was supposed to replace it, but is being removed itself... will this directive stay supported ? arno, i guess you will not have to devote time for python scripts anymore ;) -- Rich - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
Re: [Bacula-users] python support removal
On Wednesday 31 October 2007 20:49:30 Michael Short wrote: I plan to make use of this feature within the next few months... This is really disturbing news. -Michael On Oct 31, 2007 12:28 PM, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: see http://bugs.bacula.org/view.php?id=998 After version 2.2.x Python will no longer be support -- there are an insufficient number of users. I was thinking of this as a kind of guarantee that you could always use this to get what you wanted if by no other way. Maybe it was too early to call it off - if the users show up maybe there is still hope. -- Regards Steen - This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Still grepping through log files to find problems? Stop. Now Search log events and configuration files using AJAX and a browser. Download your FREE copy of Splunk now http://get.splunk.com/ ___ Bacula-users mailing list Bacula-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bacula-users
