RE: believing v. understanding Re: Fwd: Interesting thread
I do put a certain amount of thought into my responses although
at times I might lose patience,Khazeh: In other words however
lowly i am i wish to identify with the position of the martyred uncle of
the Bab and i would beg and beseech once again brother Gilberto to
consider the real implications of this:***
A word of recantation from you is
sufficient to set you free and ensure your return, with honours, to your native
city. I pledge my word that, should you be willing to acquiesce, the remaining
days of your life will be spent with honour and dignity under the sheltering
shadow of your sovereign." "Your Excellency," boldly replied Haji Mirza Siyyid
Ali, "if others before me, who quaffed joyously the cup of martyrdom, have
chosen to reject an appeal such as the one you now make to me, know of a
certainty that I am no less eager to decline such a request. My repudiation of
the truths enshrined in this Revelation would be tantamount to a rejection of
all the Revelations that have preceded it. To refuse to acknowledge the Mission
of the Siyyid-i-Bb would be to apostatise from the Faith of my forefathers and
to deny the Divine character of the Message which Muhammad, Jesus, Moses, and
all the Prophets of the past have revealed. God knows that whatever I have heard
and read concerning the sayings and doings of those Messengers, I have been
privileged to witness the same from this Youth, this beloved Kinsman of mine,
from His earliest boyhood to this, the thirtieth year of His life. Everything in
Him reminds me of His illustrious Ancestor and of the imams of His Faith whose
lives our recorded traditions have portrayed. I only request of you that you
allow me to bethe first to lay down my life in the path of my beloved
Kinsman."
(Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers,
p. 447)
Ok. I"ve read that. Right now, it is just a claim. There is no
evidence for it. There is no compelling reason to believe it.So I
basically have to just leave it alone.PeaceGilberto
Dear Gilberto
When this lowly one quoted the above,
you reply:
***
Right now, it is just a claim. There is no
evidence for it. There is no compelling reason to believe it.***
i wonder, dear Gilberto, as
you typed the above, did you really think about it.
The evidence [the life-long evidence of
the maternal uncle of the Bab] is just a ***claim***!. The Bab's uncle
was descended by a lineal succession from the Imam Husayn. He gave his life. His
thoughtful loving head was beheaded [as indeed 20, 000 died and recently even
young women in Shiraz died...] all this is a ***CLAIM*** and we sitting
in the cerebral West write on our keyboards and send it across the world
...***Right now, it is just a claim. There is no evidence for it. There is no
compelling reason to believe it.
Praise be to God or as i say since my
childhood Subh.aan Allah!
Even the Voice of Muhammad, the Prophet of
God was heard in this Revelation:[maybe others on this list would be glad to
hear these sacred quotations...even if you see no evidence as yet...for the
"claim"
***Make this known unto them, that nothing
whatsoever may shut them out from Thy Beauty, in these days whereon...Thy Friend
(Muhammad) crieth out: "Glory be to Thee, O Thou the Best-Beloved, for
that Thou hast uncovered Thy Beauty, and written down for Thy chosen ones what
will cause them to attain unto the seat of the revelation of Thy Most Great
Name,
(Baha'u'llah, Prayers and
Meditations by Baha'u'llah, p. 68)
**BECAUSE of you the Apostle (Muhammad)
lamented, and the Chaste One (Fatimih) cried out, and the countries were
laid waste, and darkness fell upon all regions.
(Baha'u'llah, The Proclamation of
Baha'u'llah, p. 103)
**2.2Thou hast, O Chief, committed
that which hath caused Muhammad, the Apostle of God, to lament
inthe most sublime Paradise. The world hath made thee proud, so much so
that thou hast turned away from the Face through whose brightness the Concourse
on high hath been illumined. Soon thou shalt find thyself in manifest
loss!
(Baha'u'llah, The Summons of the
Lord of Hosts, p. 142)
May God in His all-embracing Love and
Rah.mat open our eyes all to see the "compelling" evidence.
In the words of the Prophet Elisha praying
in the Bible:
**And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his
eyes, that he may see.** 2 Kings 6:17
humbly sorry Gilberto you moved me
provoked me to write with such candour but I love you and pray for you ...khazeh
i am myself nothing but your colleague servant in this journey of
life
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Universal House of Justice and charity
I heard that the House gave money towards tsunami relief. Does the House often give to charity? Can someone fill me in on this subject? Regards, David The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. _ Read the latest Hollywood gossip @ http://xtramsn.co.nz/entertainment __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Please Read
Hi, folks, The list managers have discussed recent activity on this list, and we have decided to ask that the list members avoid so many repetitive statements in their postings. In recent days, most of the messages posted are simple rephrasings of what has been said in previous messages. It seems unlikely to me that, if someone did not agree with you the first time around, they will suddenly change their minds after these repetitions. Via moderna, Mark A. Foster . http://markfoster.net ... [a] word is ... a universal. - William of Ockham Structurization Tech: http://tech.structurization.com The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: spiritual validity? was Re: Fwd: Interesting thread
Hi, Gilberto, At 01:43 PM 10/20/2005, you wrote: What do you mean by spiritual validity. Is it about becoming a certain kind of person? Reaching enlightenment? Salvation? Something else? In this case, I meant whatever God might consider to be a valid construction of reality. Although we humans are limited by the descriptions provided within specific narratives, God has no such limitations. Perhaps even contradictory narratives might, from God's standpoint, be correct. Via moderna, Mark A. Foster . http://markfoster.net ... [a] word is ... a universal. - William of Ockham Structurization Tech: http://tech.structurization.com The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: believing v. understanding Re: Fwd: Interesting thread
On 10/24/05, Khazeh Fananapazir [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [quoting from] (Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p. 447) Gilberto: Ok. Ive read that. Right now, it is just a claim. There is no evidence for it. There is no compelling reason to believe it. So I basically have to just leave it alone. Khazeh: Dear Gilberto When this lowly one quoted the above, you reply: *** Right now, it is just a claim. There is no evidence for it. There is no compelling reason to believe it.*** Khazeh: i wonder, dear Gilberto, as you typed the above, did you really think about it. The evidence [the life-long evidence of the maternal uncle of the Bab] is just a ***claim***!. Gilberto: Yes. Khazeh: The Bab's uncle was descended by a lineal succession from the Imam Husayn. He gave his life. His thoughtful loving head was beheaded [as indeed 20, 000 died and recently even young women in Shiraz died...] all this is a ***CLAIM*** Gilberto: Yes. There are many many people who are descended from the prophet Muhammad. (saaws) Descent from the prophet or Hussain does not confer infallibility. The Ayatollah Khomeini is also descended from the prophet. Many people in the Iranian Muslim religious establishment are also descended from the prophet through Hussein. There are many Sunni religious figures who are descended from the prophet. I even read an article explaining that John Kerry (along with a chunk of European royalty) are also descended from the Prophet Muhammad. and we sitting in the cerebral West write on our keyboards and send it across the world ...***Right now, it is just a claim. There is no evidence for it. There is no compelling reason to believe it. If you want to call it cerebral, that's ok. Personally, I don't think that arguing in an emotional mode is very persuasive or compelling. I think I could fairly say that sometimes you write in a very sweet, emotional, flowery style. And it makes me think Khazeh is a nice guy but it doesn't make me think I should therefore believe the arguments he is making. ESpecially because there are also Christians who are sweet and nice. And there are Muslims who are sweet and nice. And there are Buddhists who are sweet and nice. etc. Peace Gilberto The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: spiritual validity? was Re: Fwd: Interesting thread
On 10/24/05, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Gilberto, At 01:43 PM 10/20/2005, you wrote: What do you mean by spiritual validity. Is it about becoming a certain kind of person? Reaching enlightenment? Salvation? Something else? In this case, I meant whatever God might consider to be a valid construction of reality. Although we humans are limited by the descriptions provided within specific narratives, God has no such limitations. Perhaps even contradictory narratives might, from God's standpoint, be correct. Gilberto: Do you have an example in mind for how two contradictory narratives would both be correct? I would be tempted to say that if they are both correct, then the contradiction isn't real. And vice versa. Peace Gilberto -- There are no poets The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Israel according to Qur'an
On 10/22/05, Mark A. Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: THE QUR'AN SAYS THAT ALLAH GAVE THE LAND OF ISRAEL TO THE JEWS AND WILL RESTORE THEM TO IT AT THE END OF DAYS http://www.templemount.org/quranland.htmlhttp://www.templemount.org/quranland.html `Abdu'l-Baha made a similar prediction in _Some Answered Questions_. Gilberto: I've wondered about some of the passages I've seen from Bahai sources. Would it be fair to say that the Bahai faith is Zionist. (Believes that Israel should be a Jewish state)? I've seen references to the Jews coming back to Israel and the Muslims/Palestinians being punished for their treatment of the Bab and Bahaullah. Peace Gilberto The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: believing v. understanding Re: Fwd: Interesting thread
On 10/24/05, Michael Alcorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all, I believe the following is pertinent to this thread: If, in the Day when all the peoples of the earth will be gathered together, any man should, whilst standing in the presence of God, be asked: Wherefore hast thou disbelieved in My Beauty and turned away from My Self, and if such a man should reply and say: Inasmuch as all men have erred, and none hath been found willing to turn his face to the Truth, I, too, following their example, have grievously failed to recognize the Beauty of the Eternal, such a plea will, assuredly, be rejected. For the faith of no man can be conditioned by any one except himself. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 143) I think that makes sense. But I would probably read it in a different way. In the Bible there is also a (in my opinion) similar passage about individual accountability. Romans 1 [19] For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. [20] Ever since the creation of the world his invisible nature, namely, his eternal power and deity, has been clearly perceived in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse; But what I would say is that we have little/no excuse when it comes to the eternal qualities. But when it comes to the details which change from day to day those actually *do* depend on all sorts of extraneous factors. And it is hard to imagine people being held accountable for those. Peace Gilberto The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: spiritual validity? was Re: Fwd: Interesting thread
Gilberto, At 05:49 AM 10/24/2005, you wrote: Do you have an example in mind for how two contradictory narratives would both be correct? I would be tempted to say that if they are both correct, then the contradiction isn't real. And vice versa. Yes. 1. There is a God (Semitic religions) ... There is no God (most Buddhisms) 2. There is no metempsychosis (`Abdu'l-Baha) ... There is metempsychosis (Vedanta) 3. Jesus is the Alpha, the Omega, and the Way (New Testament) ... Muhammad is the Seal (Qur'an) 3. The end (Jesus as the Way or Muhammad as the Seal) ... The beginning (progressive and relative fulfillment) Narratives often contradict. Other narratives, such as those in the Baha'i texts, may sometimes attempt to explain those contradictions. However, since contradiction is nominal and literary, the contradictions remain in spite of any new narratives which try to resolve them. Via moderna, Mark A. Foster . http://markfoster.net ... [a] word is ... a universal. - William of Ockham Structurization Tech: http://tech.structurization.com The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Israel according to Qur'an
Gilberto, At 06:07 AM 10/24/2005, you wrote: I've wondered about some of the passages I've seen from Bahai sources. Would it be fair to say that the Bahai faith is Zionist. (Believes that Israel should be a Jewish state)? Neither Shoghi Effendi nor the Universal House of Justice have taken a position on that issue. Of course, there are different types of Zionism. The great neo-Chasidic existentialist, Martin Buber, who actually lived in the Holy Land, was strongly opposed to political Zionism - to the establishment of a Jewish state in Palestine - but he supported cultural Zionism and the right of Jews, as well as anyone else, to move to Palestine. For what it's worth, my own views are pretty close to Buber's. I also agree with Muammar Qaddafi that, after the Holocaust, European Jewry was entitled to a homeland, but that it should have been carved out of Germany, not out of the Holy Land. I've seen references to the Jews coming back to Israel and the Muslims/Palestinians being punished for their treatment of the Bab and Bahaullah. I have heard individual Baha'is express that opinion. However, to my knowledge, it is not supported in the Baha'i texts. When the Baha'i World Centre was established in the Holy Land, it was still called Palestine. Via moderna, Mark A. Foster . http://markfoster.net ... [a] word is ... a universal. - William of Ockham Structurization Tech: http://tech.structurization.com The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Universal House of Justice and charity
I heard that the House gave money towards tsunami relief. Does the House often give to charity? Can someone fill me in on this subject? Regards, David Dear David, As a Baha'i in Thailand, I can confirm that the Universal House of Justice sent some money to our NSA to assist those affected in Tsunami. Our NSA and many LSAs and individual Baha'is here also contributed towards this purpose and then the whole amount was contributed to those affected in Tsunami specially the children who lost their parents. I also heard from some Baha'i friends in Indonesia and Sri Lanka that the House has also contributed to those affected in those countries too. Warm regards, Firouz The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Women's rights blasphemy _Please send this article to your friends
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4368704.stm -- Forwarded message -- Is fighting for the equality of women a blasphemy??? Sunday, 23 October 2005, 08:52 GMT 09:52 UK Jail term for Afghan journalist Ali Mohaqiq Nasab Nasab says he does not recognise the court The editor of a women's rights magazine in Afghanistan has been sentenced to two years in jail for blasphemy. The editor, Ali Mohaqiq Nasab, was convicted after a court in Kabul concluded that several articles in his magazine Huquq-e Zan were anti-Islamic. Correspondents say the case underlines the fragility of journalistic freedom in post-Taleban Afghanistan. It also highlights a struggle between religious moderates and extremists over what form Islam should take. Mr Nasab was arrested earlier this month after he published a series of controversial articles. hspacesrc He wrote what he had the right to write according to Afghan law and press freedom and freedom of expressionsrc Rahimullah Samande Afghanistan Independent Journalists Association One of them argued that giving up Islam was not a crime that should be punished by death, as sanctioned by some interpretations of Islamic Sharia law. Other pieces criticised the practice of punishing adultery with 100 lashes and argued that men and women should be considered by Islamic law to be equals. Clerics' ruling The Ulema Council, a body of top Islamic clerics, reacted strongly against the articles. The Ulema Council sent us a letter saying that he should be punished so I sentenced him to two years' jail, Judge Ansarullah Mawizada told the Associated Press. Mr Nasab said that he didn't recognise the court and did not accept its verdict. The Afghanistan Independent Journalists Association has also spoken out against the verdict, saying it was outside the law. He wrote what he had the right to write according to Afghan law and press freedom and freedom of expression, the association's president, Rahimullah Samander, told AFP. The New York-based Committee to Protect Journalists has called for his immediate release. The editor has three weeks in which to appeal against the verdict. In 2003, two journalists were arrested in Afghanistan over charges of defaming Islam. They were later released on the orders of President Hamid Karzai. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4368704.stm Among Muslim-majority countries, Pakistan has the harshest anti-blasphemy law. In 1982, President Zia ul-Haq introduced Section 295B to the Pakistani Code of Criminal Procedure punishing defiling the Holy Qu'ran with life imprisonment. In 1986, Section 295C was introduced, mandating the death penalty for use of derogatory remarks in respect of the Holy Prophet. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fwd: Interesting thread
Do you think it is possible to understand a religious text without believing in it? Dear Gilberto, Yes, it's possible. I became a Baha'i by reading and reading Baha'i books, specially those revealed by the Central Figures of the Faith. I could understand them well and that's why I decided to become a Baha'i in my late teens. regards, Firouz The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Universal House of Justice and charity
Dear David:
The answer lies in: the Constitution of the Universal House of Justice, which is the "Most Great Law" of the Baha'i Faith, according to the Baha'i Teachings; and in the Sacred Writings of Baha'u'llah, and Abdu'l-Baha, and Shoghi Effendi, where the duties of the Universal House of Justice include charitable activities for the whole of humankind.
Best,
BarmakFirouz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I heard that the House gave money towards tsunami relief. Does the House often give to charity? Can someone fill me in on this subject? Regards, DavidDear David,As a Baha'i in Thailand, I can confirm that the Universal House of Justice sent some money to our NSA to assist those affected in Tsunami. Our NSA and many LSAs and individual Baha'is here also contributed towards this purpose and then the whole amount was contributed to those affected in Tsunami specially the children who lost their parents. I also heard from some Baha'i friends in Indonesia and Sri Lanka that the House has also contributed to those affected in those countries too.Warm regards,FirouzThe information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson Co!
unty
Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.__You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-stBaha'i Studies !
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faithfulness and fidelity
Title: Untitled Stationery
The lineage of the Bab, the descendant of the Imam Husayn; the
divers and striking evidences, in Nabil's Narrative, of the attitude of the
Herald of our Faith towards the Founder, the Imams, and the Book of Islam;
the glowing tributes paid by Baha'u'llah in the Kitab-i-Iqan to
Muhammad and His lawful Successors, and particularly to the "peerless and
incomparable" Imam Husayn; the arguments adduced, forcibly, fearlessly, and
publicly by Abdu'l-Baha, in churches and synagogues, to demonstrate the validity
of the Message of the Arabian Prophet; and last but not least the
written testimonial of the Queen of Rumania, who, born in the Anglican faith and
notwithstanding the close alliance of her government with the Greek Orthodox
Church, the state religion of her adopted country, has, largely as a result of
the perusal of these public discourses of Abdu'l-Baha, been prompted to proclaim
her recognition of the prophetic function of Muhammad - all proclaim, in no
uncertain terms, the true attitude of the Baha'i Faith towards its parent
religion. "God," is her royal tribute, "is All,
everything. He is the power behind all beginnings His is the
Voice within us that shows us good and evil. But mostly we ignore or
misunderstand this voice. Therefore, did He choose His Elect to come down
amongst us upon earth to make clear His Word, His real meaning. Therefore,
the Prophets; therefore, Christ, Muhammad, Baha'u'llah, for man needs from time
to time a voice upon earth to bring God to him, to sharpen the realization of
the existence of the true God. Those voices sent to us had to become
flesh, so that with our earthly ears we should be able to hear and
understand."***
we know that His holiness the Bab would have the
episode of Karbala read to Him [according to the pages of
Nabil]
***
He would invariably, after the termination of each
prayer, summon Siyyid Husayn to His presence and would request him to read aloud
to Him a passage from the Muh.riqu'l-Quluub, a work composed by the late Haji
Mulla Mihdi, the great-grandfather of Haji Mirza KamAlud-Din-i-Naraqi, in which
the author extols the virtues, laments the death, and narrates the circumstances
of the martyrdom of the Imam Husayn. The recital of those sufferings would
provoke intense emotion in the heart of the Bb. His tears would keep flowing as
He listened to the tale of the unutterable indignities heaped upon him, and of
the agonising pain which he was made to suffer at the hands of a perfidious
enemy. As the circumstances of that tragic life were unfolded before Him, the
Bb was continually reminded of that still greater tragedy which was destined to
signalise the advent of the promised Husayn. To Him those past atrocities were
but a symbol which foreshadowed the bitter afflictions which His own beloved
Husayn[Baha'u'llah] was soon to
suffer at the hands of His countrymen. He wept as He pictured in His mind those
calamities which He who was to be made manifest
[Baha'u'llah] was predestined to suffer, calamities such as the
Imam Husayn, even in the midst of his agonies, was never made to
endure
(Shoghi Effendi, The Dawn-Breakers, p.
252)
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RE: Fwd: Interesting thread
Such orders are present in many Holy Books of God, including Qur'an, and the *context* in which such instructions were given usually warrant God's reason for order them. | |I agree. I wasn't refering to the cases of fire and brimstone |raining down on folks from heaven or heavenly plagues. I was |talking about those cases where according to the Bible, God |commands the children of Israel to wipe out entire |populations, men, women, children, infants, livestock. |Everything that has breath. Just read the book of Joshua for example. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fwd: Interesting thread
This is precisely why Baha'u'llah has come - to remove those elements which cause confusion. - Original Message - From: Max Jasper [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Baha'i Studies bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:06 PM Subject: RE: Fwd: Interesting thread Such orders are present in many Holy Books of God, including Qur'an, and the *context* in which such instructions were given usually warrant God's reason for order them. | |I agree. I wasn't refering to the cases of fire and brimstone |raining down on folks from heaven or heavenly plagues. I was |talking about those cases where according to the Bible, God |commands the children of Israel to wipe out entire |populations, men, women, children, infants, livestock. |Everything that has breath. Just read the book of Joshua for example. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Universal House of Justice and charity
Perhaps. But then, again, it is up to the Universal House of Justice how to spend, and what, out of which funds, isn't it?
BarmakHasan Elias [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I wonder if those incomes gets out fromHuqúqu'lláhInternational founds. Am I correct?
David Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
I heard that the House gave money towards tsunami relief. Does the House often give to charity? Can someone fill me in on this subject?Regards,David
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Re: Fwd: Interesting thread
Sure. So we agree?!? -Gilberto On 10/24/05, Max Jasper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Excellent! You say that Qur'an's instruction to kill was killing of non-believers who waged war against Muhammad or Muslims. That's the context I was referring to. |Ordinary warfare where you make sure not to |kill non-combatants, where you allow the enemy to surrender, |where you cease hostilities when your opponent does, etc. is |not the same thing as the genocides commanded in the Bible. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto (e-mail) is sent by the Johnson County Community College (JCCC) and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu -- There are no poets __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
