Re: Archives
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Susan, If the archives were supposed to be public, then members should have been informed. But I don't understand why a mailing list should be private to Baha'is only but the archives should be public. This is nonsense. Best regards, Firouz On 29/10/2014 21:50, Susan Maneck wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv It is a private list in the sense you have you to join in order post, but we do have public archives. I don't know if it is possible to remove posts from it. I'm sending this to Mark Foster's various addresses since he sets up these things. On Wed, Oct 29, 2014 at 8:53 AM, Firouz wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear All, I see that some of my earlier posts to Bahai-St is online, and everyone searching for my name could find those posts and read them. I thought posts in this Forum are just for the members of this Forum. Is there anyway to delete some mails from public archives? Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:sman...@gmail.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-775492-738796.0f462312a2f7bdde70e0bbead78e3...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:firo...@gmail.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-775508-51117.0c33fa62beb7a768b168eeaa91e9a...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-775512-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Archives
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear All, I see that some of my earlier posts to Bahai-St is online, and everyone searching for my name could find those posts and read them. I thought posts in this Forum are just for the members of this Forum. Is there anyway to delete some mails from public archives? Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-775492-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: 19-Day Feast
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Thank you dear Don, highly appreciate that. Warm greetings, Firouz On 01/03/2013 08:46, Don Calkins wrote: > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > the following version should provide the info you want. > > <http://www.holy-writings.com/?a=SHOWTEXT&d=%2Fen%2FBahai+Faith%2F4+-+Miscellaneous%2FDeveloping+Distinctive+Bahai+Communities+-+LSA+Guidelines+%28USA%29.html> > > Don C > > On Feb 28, 2013, at 6:37 23PM, Firouz wrote: > >> As a non-US citizen, I have no access tousbnc.org >> <http://usbnc.org/>. I appreciate if you could share the guidelines >> for LSAs with me privately. Thank you. > > > - > Understood properly, all man's problems are essentially spiritual in > nature. > > > __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-690285-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: 19-Day Feast
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Mike, As a non-US citizen, I have no access to usbnc.org. I appreciate if you could share the guidelines for LSAs with me privately. Thank you. Best regards, Firouz On 01/03/2013 04:23, Mike Moum wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv The Guidelines for Local Spiritual Assemblies, downloadable from usbnc.org after you log in, has a chapter on Feast. Much good guidance (obviously). It should answer all your questions. Mike On 02/28/2013 07:25 AM, Firouz wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Friends, I am looking for some guidance or directive on how to conduct the Administrative part of a feast, and in what order. For example, we know that consultation takes place during the Administrative part of the feast, does it matter to have consultation at the beginning, middle, or the end of the administrative part of the feast? Thanks for any advice. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:mike.m...@gmail.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-690143-1129213.c7a4f86ddd44f9911d3b661f6441b...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-690283-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: 19-Day Feast
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear all, Thanks so much to everyone of you for replying to my query and providing some useful links. Best regards, Firouz On 01/03/2013 01:44, Ehsan Bayat wrote: > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > "If this feast be held in the proper fashion," `Abdu'l-Bahá states, > "the friends will, once in nineteen days, find themselves spiritually > restored, and endued with a power that is not of this world." To > ensure this glorious outcome the concept of the Feast must be > adequately understood by all the friends. The Feast is known to have > three distinct but related parts: the devotional, the administrative, > and the social. The first entails the recitation of prayers and > reading from the Holy Texts. The second is a general meeting where the > Local Spiritual Assembly reports its activities, plans and problems to > the community, shares news and messages from the World Centre and the > National Assembly, and receives the thoughts and recommendations of > the friends through a process of consultation. The third involves the > partaking of refreshments and engaging in other activities meant to > foster fellowship in a culturally determined diversity of forms which > do not violate principles of the Faith or the essential character of > the Feast.__ > _Even though the Feast requires strict adherence to the threefold > aspects in the sequence in which they have been defined_, there is > much room for variety in the total experience. For example, music may > be introduced at various stages, including the devotional portion; > `Abdu'l-Bahá recommends that eloquent, uplifting talks be given; > originality and variety in expressions of hospitality are possible; > the quality and range of the consultation are critical to the spirit > of the occasion. The effects of different cultures in all these > respects are welcome factors which can lend the Feast a salutary > diversity, representative of the unique characteristics of the various > societies in which it is held and therefore conducive to the > upliftment and enjoyment of its participants." > Extracted from the Introductory Letter to the Compilation on Nineteen > Day Feast,The Universal House Of Justice; Bahá'í World Centre, 27 > August 1989 > http://bahai-library.com/compilation_nineteen_day_feast > *From:* jonah winters > *To:* Baha'i Studies > *Sent:* Thursday, February 28, 2013 11:29 AM > *Subject:* Re: 19-Day Feast > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > I don't know if you'll find the answer here, but all online documents > I know of about Feasts can be found at > http://bahai-library.com/title/feast (and the Lights of Guidance > section, http://bahai-library.com/hornby_lights_guidance#nnnXIX.C ). > > -Jonah > > > __ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:eba...@yahoo.com > <mailto:eba...@yahoo.com> > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-690211-5441.d96eed18098da6ab5c15dd856998e...@list.jccc.edu > <mailto:leave-690211-5441.d96eed18098da6ab5c15dd856998e...@list.jccc.edu> > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > ly...@list.jccc.edu <mailto:ly...@list.jccc.edu> > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu <mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > > __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-690282-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
19-Day Feast
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Friends, I am looking for some guidance or directive on how to conduct the Administrative part of a feast, and in what order. For example, we know that consultation takes place during the Administrative part of the feast, does it matter to have consultation at the beginning, middle, or the end of the administrative part of the feast? Thanks for any advice. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-690143-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi and Charisma
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 20/08/2012 3:42 AM, Skygram wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Susan, Could Ruhi be defined as a Charismatic movement within the Baha'i Faith? Bill Probably in some countries YES, but not all countries or places. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-659767-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Receptive souls
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear friends, We often hear the term 'receptive souls'. How do we define a receptive soul? It seems to me that definition of this term is becoming narrower and narrower. I appreciate a definition based on Baha'i Scriptures. Thank you. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-631945-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Mastery of Self
The Baha'i Studies Listserv I am looking for some compilation or Baha'i quotations regarding "Mastery of Self". Any hint or ideas in this regard? Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-624557-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: nakhlah raid was Re: Stealth Jihad (support for tolerance)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 1/1/2011 12:15 PM, Susan Maneck wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Personally I find mainstream Baha'is offensive too. There is only one group of Baha'is and that is simply called Baha'is. Other groups should be called covenant-breakers. The problem Firouz, is that non-Baha'is are going to require something more neutral. I can't use the term covenant-breaker in an academic setting, for instance. __ But this Bahai-St list is not an academic list. It is certainly a Baha'i list. How others can call us the main-stream Baha'is? Any individual could be either a Baha'i or non-Baha'i. There is nothing in between. Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549522-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: nakhlah raid was Re: Stealth Jihad (support for tolerance)
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 1/1/2011 4:23 AM, Susan Maneck wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv . Would it be offensive to say "mainstream Bahais"? That's the phrase I prefer. _ Dear Susan, Personally I find mainstream Baha'is offensive too. There is only one group of Baha'is and that is simply called Baha'is. Other groups should be called covenant-breakers. I think by using the word "mainstream" in front of Baha'is we are creating disunity. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549516-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Stealth Jihad
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 31/12/2010 10:42 PM, Susan Maneck wrote: Can you consort with Jihadist or Shia ruling clerics of Iran with spirit of joy and spirituality? None of the Muslims here fit that category and they are the ones being insulted. I did not mean the Muslims in this Forum who are very respectable Muslims. My question was a general question referring to associating with all people in spirit of respect and joy. Regarding the Hidden Words quote. Baha'u'llah revealed it in Baghdad before His declaration in 1963. At those days there were no covenant breakers. Were there? If it refers to Covenant-Breakers, Muslims have broken the greater covenant of God. Are they considered in this verse? Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549460-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Stealth Jihad
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Matt, No one said that it has been your fault or the fault of Muslims in general for what has been happening to Baha'is. You were arguing that I should respect all people regardless of their religious affiliations and you tried to say that is what my religion teaches us. As Iskandar said respecting people is different that respecting opinions or beliefs. I was born a Muslim and most my family members are Muslims. My mother is a Muslim and I love her dearly and have greatest respect for her, but I have no respect for her belief and I totally reject what she believes in. And I have told her that I am just a true Muslim. Should I respect suicide bombers? I respect you and Gilberto as human beings. Here where I live in a Buddhist country, I fight for the rights of Muslims, and I have many Muslim friends. But after all I believe Muslims have not sincerely followed the teaching of their prophet. On 31/12/2010 1:21 PM, Matt Haase wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > No, that is not what I am saying. That is your knee-jerk reaction to > what I am saying. Everything goes back to the Iranian Baha'is. I am > sorry for what is happening to them, but it is not my fault. I speak > out, I do what I can, but it is not my fault. > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 10:38 PM, Firouz <mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org>> wrote: > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > Matt, > > Please don't misinterpret the Teaching of my religion. Are you > saying I should respect the Iranian Islamic rulers for whatever > they believe and for whatever they do to my fellow Iranian > Baha'is, just because they are Muslims? Where have you found such > interpretations. If you want to discuss certain Baha'i Teaching, > please give a quote and then we will discuss it here. After all > here is a Bahai-Study list. And I don't believe everything that > Muslims believe is Islamic. Of course, out of respect, the Muslims > have the right to believe in anything they like to believe, but I > should not have any respect for their beliefs. Telling Muslims > some facts about their religions is not disrespect either. > > > > On 31/12/2010 6:46 AM, Matt Haase wrote: >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> Yes, you should respect all people regardless of their religious >> affiliations. Even if you think we believe in stupid things, your >> religion says you have to respect people of all religions. It >> doesn't say, "respect people of all religions, only if they agree >> with Baha'i teachings." And just fyi, I think the Baha'i Faith is >> a beautiful religion, and I am a Muslim. >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 3:59 AM, Firouz > <mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org>> wrote: >> >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> On 30/12/2010 1:13 AM, Susan Maneck wrote: >> >> My religion is Baha'i which teaches us to respect Islam. >> >> >> Dear Susan, >> >> Respecting Islam is not the same as respecting Muslims with >> whatever they believe as Islamic. I think these days what >> many Muslims believe is not the teaching of Islam, but mostly >> the teaching of some clergies or false Ahadith. Should we as >> Baha'is respect such Muslims with some distorted views of >> their religions. By not recognizing Baha'u'llah and this Day >> as the Day of God, Muslims have failed to be faithful to the >> Teachings of Holy Quran and Prophet Muhamad. What many >> Muslims believe today is some idle fancies and imagining. >> >> Best regards, >> Firouz >> >> >> >> __ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: >> mailto:matthewhaa...@gmail.com <mailto:matthewhaa...@gmail.com> >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email to >> >> mailto:leave-549253-953325.e9a9b042dd227e4657deb0ff0d384...@list.jccc.edu >> >> <mailto:leave-549253-953325...e9a9b042dd227e4657deb0ff0d384...@list.jccc.edu> >> >> >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >> ly...@list.jccc.edu <mailto:ly...@list.jccc.edu> >> Or subscribe: >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >> Mail - mailto:bahai...@list.jccc...edu >> <mailto:baha
Re: Stealth Jihad
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 31/12/2010 12:55 PM, Gilberto Simpson wrote: I think Baha'is are only true Muslims. So if Bahais are "true Muslims" what should Sunnis and Shias call themselves? They can call themselves by their sect names, i.e. Sunni or Shia. As they have not fully understood the Teachings of Prophet Muhammad and have not recognized the advent of Baha'u'llah. Remember that in Quran, some other prophets were called Muslims. So considering this meaning of Islam, Baha'is are true Muslims. And Shias and Sunnis failed to surrender to Will of God. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549437-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Stealth Jihad
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 31/12/2010 11:25 AM, Gilberto Simpson wrote: Speaking for myself, you should feel free to make all kinds of specific criticisms of the actions of the Iranian government. But then when you characterize their negative practices as "Islamic" then you give the impression of painting all Muslims with the same brush. Actually I characterize their practice as unIslamic but they are the ones who say they are real Muslims, and all their actions are Islamic and they bring their own Islamic Scriptures to prove that their actions are Islamic and they are following Sharia. Of course you as Sunni may not think of them as true Muslims and they do not consider you guys as true Muslims either. I think Baha'is are only true Muslims. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549399-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Stealth Jihad
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Susan, How about Hidden Words saying "Treasure the companionship of the righteous and eschew all fellowship with the ungodly". I don't think ungodly really means atheist here. Thinking about the Persian word (ashrAr) means more to me as "enemies". I think your quote below is out of context. I think we should look at all the quotes of Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha, and Guardian in this regard. Can you consort with Jihadist or Shia ruling clerics of Iran with spirit of joy and spirituality? On 31/12/2010 7:46 AM, Susan Maneck wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Even if you think we believe in stupid things, your religion says you have to respect people of all religions. It doesn't say, "respect people of all religions, only if they agree with Baha'i teachings." The Writings go further than that. They say we should consort with the followers of all religions with joy and spirituality. I don't see much of that evident here of late. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org Unsubscribe: send a blank email tomailto:leave-549384-51117.0c33fa62beb7a768b168eeaa91e9a...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body toly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe:http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail -mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web -http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) -news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public -http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public -http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG -www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3348 - Release Date: 12/30/10 __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549395-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Stealth Jihad
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Matt, Please don't misinterpret the Teaching of my religion. Are you saying I should respect the Iranian Islamic rulers for whatever they believe and for whatever they do to my fellow Iranian Baha'is, just because they are Muslims? Where have you found such interpretations. If you want to discuss certain Baha'i Teaching, please give a quote and then we will discuss it here. After all here is a Bahai-Study list. And I don't believe everything that Muslims believe is Islamic. Of course, out of respect, the Muslims have the right to believe in anything they like to believe, but I should not have any respect for their beliefs. Telling Muslims some facts about their religions is not disrespect either. On 31/12/2010 6:46 AM, Matt Haase wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > Yes, you should respect all people regardless of their religious > affiliations. Even if you think we believe in stupid things, your > religion says you have to respect people of all religions. It doesn't > say, "respect people of all religions, only if they agree with Baha'i > teachings." And just fyi, I think the Baha'i Faith is a beautiful > religion, and I am a Muslim. > > > On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 3:59 AM, Firouz <mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org>> wrote: > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > On 30/12/2010 1:13 AM, Susan Maneck wrote: > > My religion is Baha'i which teaches us to respect Islam. > > > Dear Susan, > > Respecting Islam is not the same as respecting Muslims with > whatever they believe as Islamic. I think these days what many > Muslims believe is not the teaching of Islam, but mostly the > teaching of some clergies or false Ahadith. Should we as Baha'is > respect such Muslims with some distorted views of their religions. > By not recognizing Baha'u'llah and this Day as the Day of God, > Muslims have failed to be faithful to the Teachings of Holy Quran > and Prophet Muhamad. What many Muslims believe today is some idle > fancies and imagining. > > Best regards, > Firouz > > > > __ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: > mailto:matthewhaa...@gmail.com <mailto:matthewhaa...@gmail.com> > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-549253-953325.e9a9b042dd227e4657deb0ff0d384...@list.jccc.edu > > <mailto:leave-549253-953325..e9a9b042dd227e4657deb0ff0d384...@list.jccc.edu> > > > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to > ly...@list.jccc.edu <mailto:ly...@list.jccc.edu> > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai...@list.jccc..edu <mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu> > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > <http://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st> > Old Public - http://www..mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net > <http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net> > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > > __ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-549381-51117.0c33fa62beb7a768b168eeaa91e9a...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > > > > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com> > Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3348 - Release Date: 12/30/10 > __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549394-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Stealth Jihad
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 30/12/2010 1:13 AM, Susan Maneck wrote: My religion is Baha'i which teaches us to respect Islam. Dear Susan, Respecting Islam is not the same as respecting Muslims with whatever they believe as Islamic. I think these days what many Muslims believe is not the teaching of Islam, but mostly the teaching of some clergies or false Ahadith. Should we as Baha'is respect such Muslims with some distorted views of their religions. By not recognizing Baha'u'llah and this Day as the Day of God, Muslims have failed to be faithful to the Teachings of Holy Quran and Prophet Muhamad. What many Muslims believe today is some idle fancies and imagining. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-549253-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: respect for prophets (Unity of Prophets) Gilberto and Naison Jones's interesting exchange
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Yes, Khomeni and Khamenei. They have issued fatwa on the head of Salman Rushdie and some other guys. Some Iranian opposition were killed by their fatwas both in Iran and Europe. These are acts of terrorism. During Iran/Iraq war, Khomeni and Rafsanjani issued some fatwas against Iraq and Iraqis, I cannot remember the details. Firouz On 24/12/2010 10:28 PM, Gilberto Simpson wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Is there a specific ayatollah who has said it is permissible to attack non-combatant civilians in jihad? On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Firouz wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 24/12/2010 2:47 PM, Susan Maneck wrote: Generally speaking it has not been the clerics who have been encouraging acts of terrorism. Bin Laden, for instance is not an Imam by profession, he was a building contractor. Indeed, a lot of the jihadists despise the traditional 'ulama. In Shia Islam it seems those are the clergies (ayattolahs) who have issued fatwas for Jehad and other terrorism acts. And I think in general Shia clergies are much more powerful than their Sunni counterparts. regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:gilberto.simp...@gmail.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548889-68452.e157d5dc5efabb63696f251595c88...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548890-51117.0c33fa62beb7a768b168eeaa91e9a...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3334 - Release Date: 12/23/10 __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548894-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: respect for prophets (Unity of Prophets) Gilberto and Naison Jones's interesting exchange
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 24/12/2010 2:47 PM, Susan Maneck wrote: Generally speaking it has not been the clerics who have been encouraging acts of terrorism. Bin Laden, for instance is not an Imam by profession, he was a building contractor. Indeed, a lot of the jihadists despise the traditional 'ulama. In Shia Islam it seems those are the clergies (ayattolahs) who have issued fatwas for Jehad and other terrorism acts. And I think in general Shia clergies are much more powerful than their Sunni counterparts. regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548889-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: respect for prophets (Unity of Prophets) Gilberto and Naison Jones's interesting exchange
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 24/12/2010 2:23 PM, Susan Maneck wrote: Uh Naison, Islam doesn't have priests. But Islam has Mullahs, Moftis, Akhunds, Ayatollahs, Imams, etc. They are sort of priests. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548868-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: respect for prophets was Re: Joseph Emmanuel
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 23/12/2010 11:42 AM, Khazeh wrote: > > No one seems to read my postings. I posted so many beautiful things > including all the Moojan Momen essays on Islam and the Bahai Faith…not > one response. > > A Persian poet says that often when we make a point it is exactly as > if a concert should play for the deaf or a mirror be brought for the > blind… > > ( بقول شاعر (پیش کر بربط سرای وپیش کور آیینه دار) > Dearest Khazeh, I always read your posts with much interest. I read them more than once, at least twice. I have benefited and learned a lot from your posts. I keep all your posts in my archive and refer to them occasionally when I am teaching to Muslims or Christians. You always make my day whenever I see a post from you in my INBOX either in this forum or in Tarikh. Please, please keep them coming. I have learned a lot from you my dear Khazeh. I am thankful to Baha'u'llah that I came to meet you in cyberspace. I am thankful to you for all your posts. loving greetings, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548621-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: respect for prophets was Re: Joseph Emmanuel
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Gilberto, You're correct and I agree with you about the differences in beliefs of Sunnis and Shias. And I am sure most educated Muslims do agree with you as well. Unfortunately in most middle eastern countries and Indian sub-continent, it is totally different. What average people have come to believe since childhood is very different than those academic books. That is why we see how Shias and Sunnis kill each other in Iraq, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and probably some other countries. Just last week a bomb exploded in a mosque in a city in south eastern Iran, some bombs exploded in Iraq. These are more than politics, many of Sunnis and Shias in these regions have come to believe what they have been told, right or wrong. Many Sunni/Shias in these regions have developed a hatred towards each other. Yes, I know that is not Islam, but that is some facts and beliefs among these Muslims. regards, Firouz On 22/12/2010 10:29 AM, Gilberto Simpson wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Sunnis and Shias obviously disagree with one another on specific points. And maybe even on a popular level there may be a certain amount of conflict and tension between the two communities. But if you look to some of the most respected voices speak about the other side, they still recognize one another as Muslims. For example Al-Azhar's fatwa on the Shias: http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1b/14.html#text or the Deobandi fatwa on whether Shias are non-Muslims: http://www.islamopediaonline.org/fatwa/darul-ifta-darul-uloom-deoband-responds-question-are-all-shia-considered-non-muslims (Note, The Deoband seminary is in India and Al-Azhar is in Egypt, which I'm pretty sure is in the Middle East), For a more thorough discussion of the topic from a classical perspective you could look at "On the Boundaries of theological tolerance in Islam" which was annotated and translated by Sherman A. Jackson from a much earlier work by Abu Hamid al-Ghazali. (Who was Persian, also not American). He gives a very inclusive notion of who can be "Muslim" which definitely includes Shias. On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 9:06 PM, Firouz wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Susan, I think there is a big difference between the average Muslims in USA and in the Middle East/Indian sub-continent in their views about their own religions and other sects of Islam. I am not a historian so I do not exactly know the origin of division between Shias and Sunnis and how it was politicized. What I see today in ME/Pakistan their understanding of Islam has become sort of a belief for majority (not all of course) that the other sects of Islam have broken the covenant of Prophet Muhammad. Except "covenant breaker" is more a Bahai concept than a Muslim one. For Muslims the question boils down to: What is the absolute minimum one has to believe in order to be "Muslim"? And in capsule form, the basic answer is the shahadah: "There is no god but God. Muhammad is prophet/messenger of God". including certain principles which logically flow from it.(like belief in the Quran). But since the successorship of Abu Bakr is not one of those basic principles, merely believing that Ali should have been the successor is not enough to take a person out of Islam. __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548388-51117.0c33fa62beb7a768b168eeaa91e9a...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548401-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: respect for prophets was Re: Joseph Emmanuel
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Susan, I think there is a big difference between the average Muslims in USA and in the Middle East/Indian sub-continent in their views about their own religions and other sects of Islam. I am not a historian so I do not exactly know the origin of division between Shias and Sunnis and how it was politicized. What I see today in ME/Pakistan their understanding of Islam has become sort of a belief for majority (not all of course) that the other sects of Islam have broken the covenant of Prophet Muhammad. As a student in Iran (this is during Shah's time of course) we had to study about Islam, and in our religious classes we were told that Sunnis broke the covenant by not accepting Imam Ali as His immediate successor. I am sure the Sunnis (specially the Wahabis) have been taught similar things about Shias and how they are not real Muslims. So many Muslims have come to believe these non-sense. So you see, there is big difference between Muslims of Muslim countries and Muslims in countries where Islam is a minority religion. Best regards, Firouz On 22/12/2010 1:26 AM, Susan Maneck wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Living in the South I can tell you there are far too many Christians that don't consider Catholics "Christian" but I wouldn't make the generalization about Christianity that you made about Islam, Firouz. Most Sunnis I talk to consider the difference between Shi'ites and Sunnis to be "political" not religious. The same would not be said for the Wahhabi-types of course. The make the same accusations against Shi'ites that Shi'tes make against Baha'is: http://www.cesnur.org/2009/slc_maneck.htm __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548267-51117.0c33fa62beb7a768b168eeaa91e9a...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-548382-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: respect for prophets was Re: Joseph Emmanuel
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Thank you Sen for your remark. I see your point and I agree with you. I think I could not express myself properly. I am a Baha'i of Muslim Background. I became a Baha'i when I was 20, some 30 years ago. What do you call a Muslim who recognizes Baha'u'llah as Manifestation of God? Best regards, Firouz On 19/12/2010 5:45 PM, Sen & Sonja wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 19 Dec 2010 at 10:05, Firouz wrote: This is the main issue you pointed out. Gilberto and indeed no Muslim could ever accept that there could be a Messenger after Prophet Muhammad, And yet, you did make that step. You should know personally, and you can see historically, that many Muslims have made that step. Beware of essentialisms (which is to say, prejudices) that lay down what a whole class of people "can never do." The "recognition" (irfan) of a messenger of God (whether new, or already socially accepted) requires something more than knowledge of certain texts, or the ability to manipulate the codes of meaning to come up with the "right" answer. It involves a certain personal capacity which cannot be aquired simply by taking over someone else's knowledge and arguments, but which can be developed internally. This capacity is not limited to people of any one race or religion or era, but it is very far from universal. Irfan is and has always been the prize for those who strive for it Sen -- -- Sen McGlinn http://senmcglinn.wordpress.com Happy are those who spend their days in gaining knowledge, in discovering the secrets of nature, and in penetrating the subtleties of pure truth! Woe to those who are contented with ignorance, whose hearts are gladdened by thoughtless imitation, ... who have wasted their lives!"(~Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions p.137) -- __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-547811-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: respect for prophets was Re: Joseph Emmanuel
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Hi Gilberto, Even though Baha'is may talk about Baha'is and non-Baha'is, we still believe in equality of rights for all humans. All have equal rights and opportunities. And we don't think non-Baha'is go to hell or should be taxed or punished differently from Baha'is. We do believe in prophets of Muslims and other major religions. And we believe in the changeless Faith of God, unlike Muslims. What I said about Shias and Sunnis is what I have seen in living in both a Shia country (Iran) and a Sunni country (UAE). I was born as a Muslim of Shia background in Iran and became Baha'i some 30 years ago. So I know well how the Muslims (Shias and Sunnis) in Middle East and Indian sub-continent think and believe. Probably the Muslims in USA are a bit different. cheers, Firouz On 19/12/2010 10:29 AM, Gilberto Simpson wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv A couple of things: The Bahai Faith also divides humanity into believers and non-believers. I'm not going to speak for Shias but certainly know of Sunnis who accept Shias as Muslims. You have no right to generalize about over a billion people like that. -There is not a single book called "the Shariah" which contains the laws followed by all Muslims. And in any case the Shariah shouldn't just be identified with the laws of Iran. -I'm sure that the Iranian government treats Bahais and Sunnis badly. So it shouldn't be surprising if Iranian Bahais or Iranian Sunnis say nasty things about Muslims or Shias (respectively). On Sat, Dec 18, 2010 at 10:05 PM, Firouz wrote: Dear Dr. Hai, This is the main issue you pointed out. Gilberto and indeed no Muslim could ever accept that there could be a Messenger after Prophet Muhammad, and that is why Muslims cannot recognize followers of Baha'u'llah as People of Book. We see this clearly in Iran and how the Muslim rulers treat Baha'is. That would be the case in any other country when the Islamic Shariah is followed. I never believe when Muslims talk about equality of human beings. For Muslims there are just 2 kinds of people, believers and non-believers. And Sharia laws clearly state how non-believers should be treated. The problem for Muslims is that Sunnis do not considers Shias as Muslims and vice versa. And we well know how Shias of Iran treat Sunnis and how Sunnis countries treat their Shia subjects. If you get some time, please watch the following video. A sunni Imam in Iran addressing his followers. It is in Persian. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S6m9JP97UU&feature=player_embedded <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S6m9JP97UU&feature=player_embedded> Best regards, Firouz Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:gilberto.simp...@gmail.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-547781-68452.e157d5dc5efabb63696f251595c88...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-547782-51117.0c33fa62beb7a768b168eeaa91e9a...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3324 - Release Date: 12/18/10 __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-547783-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: respect for prophets was Re: Joseph Emmanuel
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 19/12/2010 3:13 AM, Iskandar Hai, M.D. wrote: You also fail to see the self definition of the Baha'i Faith as a new Divine Revelation, as a new religion and you talks about saints, and awliyAA, and reformers, etc. Baha'u'llah is none of those. He is the Founder and Author of a new Divinely ordained religion/Revelation.. This is self definition. You don't address that. Dear Dr. Hai, This is the main issue you pointed out. Gilberto and indeed no Muslim could ever accept that there could be a Messenger after Prophet Muhammad, and that is why Muslims cannot recognize followers of Baha'u'llah as People of Book. We see this clearly in Iran and how the Muslim rulers treat Baha'is. That would be the case in any other country when the Islamic Shariah is followed. I never believe when Muslims talk about equality of human beings. For Muslims there are just 2 kinds of people, believers and non-believers. And Sharia laws clearly state how non-believers should be treated. The problem for Muslims is that Sunnis do not considers Shias as Muslims and vice versa. And we well know how Shias of Iran treat Sunnis and how Sunnis countries treat their Shia subjects. If you get some time, please watch the following video. A sunni Imam in Iran addressing his followers. It is in Persian. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S6m9JP97UU&feature=player_embedded <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S6m9JP97UU&feature=player_embedded> Best regards, Firouz Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-547781-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Joseph Emmanuel
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 17/12/2010 1:21 PM, Gilberto Simpson wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv All the earth is a masjid (place of prostration) So why Muslim bother to build masjids? Specially the one near World Trade Center in NYC? Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-547502-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Susan, Thanks for sharing some success stories of Ruhi. Yes, I also have seen some good success stories of Institute process and also I have seen much more of the failures. What I am trying to conclude is taht one method cannot certainly satisfy all folks equally. We, as thinking Baha'is, should recognize better how to teach the Faith to others rather than inviting everyone to study classes. What might be good for a certain individual might be like a poison for another. Personally even though I have seen some success stories, I have become fed up to hear about core activities in almost all Baha'i meetings, as if there is nothing else in the Faith besides core activities. Best regards, Firouz On 14/12/2010 10:33 PM, Susan Maneck wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv Ok you had 3 new active Baha'is in your cluster over a period of one year. Has anyone left the Faith? Dear Firouz, Not in the last year. Do you have statistics of growth in your cluster over last 10 or 20 years? I know from living here the last ten years that this exceeds the number of declarants we would expect over a five year period. Do you think you would not have had 3 or 4 declarants had your community followed the same old style firesides, teaching, and deepening classes? Yes, but it would have taken five or ten years. As you know,Firouz, I've never been a big fan of Ruhi. What turned me around is that I had this one seeker, a student who came into my office one day, plopped down on a chair and said, "Doc, I need a new religion.' So I started taking her to firesides. This woman was exceptionally bright but she also had a number of emotional problems and somehow she managed to turn every fireside into a focus on her problems and we were getting nowhere. But when we started doing Ruhi classes the situation greatly improved because there was a focus. By the time she finished Book Four (best book for seekers, IMO) she had become a Baha'i. The same thing was true of a spouse of one of the Baha'is. He had been hanging around the Faith for some 17 years before doing Ruhi classes. I might add that these two are not among the four declarants I mentioned. This happened shortly before our recent spurt. My experience has been mostly in developing world and that was my observation of inflated statistics. It is the nature of statistics to be inflated, even with the best intentions, but I can tell you the record keeping is much more careful now than it was. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-546507-51117.0c33fa62beb7a768b168eeaa91e9a...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-546692-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv On 14/12/2010 12:07 PM, Susan Maneck wrote: More so than used to be the case. Our cluster has had four declarations in the last year of whom three have been pretty active. The Institute Process does help in this regard. Dear Susan, Ok you had 3 new active Baha'is in your cluster over a period of one year. Has anyone left the Faith? Do you have statistics of growth in your cluster over last 10 or 20 years? Do you think you would not have had 3 or 4 declarants had your community followed the same old style firesides, teaching, and deepening classes? One other observation I had in Asia and I think Ron also pointed out is that often the children of active Baha'is and pioneers are not so active in the Faith. I do not understand why? Some pioneers and active Baha'is have been successful in teaching the Faith but when it comes to their own family and children, it has not been that successful as I suppose it should have been. That was true here for the first decade or so after Ruhi began to be used, but now things seemed to have turned a corner, at least in the "A" clusters. I can tell you there is no exaggeration of statistics from our cluster as I'm the one who submits them. ;-} My experience has been mostly in developing world and that was my observation of inflated statistics. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-546411-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: How will they cope?
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Susan, Are all new enrolled Baha'is in USA active in the Faith? In some South East Asian countries that I am familiar with, we regularly hear that so many people have declared their Faith in Baha'u'llah, but in practice many of these new declarants become inactive in few months. By observing the Baha'i meetings, feasts, conventions, contributions to the funds, etc. over the years, I do not see much growth in the Faith, I would say our growth rate after the Ruhi era is less than before Ruhi era. I believe inflated and exaggerated reports are sent to the World Center by most developing countries about their growth rate. Best regards, Firouz On 14/12/2010 6:40 AM, Susan Maneck wrote: The Baha'i Studies Listserv . For the last 15 years or so, it was running around 100 per month. Dear Ron, That simply isn't true, Ron. It bottomed out at about 1000 a year a few years okay but no way was that the pattern for the last 15 years. If its over 200 per month, maybe we are back to break even, and I retract my statement.;-)) I'm more familiar with the South Central Region than any place else. For the last couple of years we have had 600 enrollments per year. Since there are six different regions if they had the same success as we have it would put enrollments at about 3500. warmest, Susan __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-546373-51117.0c33fa62beb7a768b168eeaa91e9a...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-546388-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
9/11 revisited
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear friends, I see more people both Muslims and non-Muslims talk about 9/11 events after Ahmadinejad's recent trip to NY. I have received some video clips showing the claim of conspiracy theorists on why 9/11 event was the US government job, i.e. why building 7 collapsed, etc. Is there a well researched video clip or a scientific article that has studied various claims and prepared some good responses to these claims that could be shared to those who believe in such theories and answer their questions. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-533448-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Trustee of Huququllah
The Baha'i Studies Listserv If I am not mistaken the House has already appointed a committee of 5 members as the trustees of Huquq. Best regards, Firouz > The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> Dr Varqa was the International Trustee, but my understanding was that he had >> to appoint a successor in his will. > Huh? The House of Justice appoints the trustees of Huququllah. > > __ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to > mailto:leave-529150-51117.0c33fa62beb7a768b168eeaa91e9a...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 9.0.856 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3157 - Release Date: 09/25/10 > 00:16:00 > __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-529151-27401.54f46e81b66496c9909bcdc2f7987...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Hidden Words Persian 77
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Thank you very much dear Dr. Hai. Warm regards, Firouz On 23/6/2010 10:29 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D. wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > http://bahai-library.com/bsr/bsr09/9H2_comp_hiddenwords.htm and > scroll down to the Persian Hidden Words number 77. > > > On Wed, Jun 23, 2010 at 8:36 AM, Firouz <mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org>> wrote: > > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > > Dear Dr. Hai, > > Do you know how I can access this file? Is there a link to a site? > Thanks for additional information. > > Warm regards, > Firouz > > > On 23/6/2010 6:31 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D. wrote: >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> >> Dear Firouz: >> >> This has been explained by Abdu'l-Baha and by Shoghi >> Effendi.there is a file in one of the issues of the Baha'i >> Studies Review a few years ago that has compiled the >> interpretations. >> >> >> Best regards >> Iskandar >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPod >> >> On Jun 23, 2010, at 2:41 AM, Firouz > <mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org>> wrote: >> >>> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >>> >>> Dear All, >>> >>> I have a question about the Hidden Words Persian 77. >>> >>> O SON OF JUSTICE! In the night-season the beauty of the immortal >>> Being hath repaired from the emerald height of fidelity unto the >>> Sadratu’l-Muntahá, and wept with such a weeping that the >>> concourse on high and the dwellers of the realms above wailed at >>> His lamenting. Whereupon there was asked, Why the wailing and >>> weeping? He made reply: As bidden I waited expectant upon the >>> hill of faithfulness, yet inhaled not from them that dwell on >>> earth the fragrance of fidelity. Then summoned to return I >>> beheld, and lo! certain doves of holiness were sore tried within >>> the claws of the dogs of earth. Thereupon the Maid of heaven >>> hastened forth unveiled and resplendent from Her mystic mansion, >>> and asked of their names, and all were told but one. And when >>> urged, the first letter thereof was uttered, whereupon the >>> dwellers of the celestial chambers rushed forth out of their >>> habitation of glory. And whilst the second letter was pronounced >>> they fell down, one and all, upon the dust. At that moment a >>> voice was heard from the inmost shrine: “Thus far and no >>> farther.” Verily We bear witness to that which they have done >>> and now are doing. >>> >>> I appreciate if someone could explain more about this Hidden >>> Word. Also my specific question is to what their refers to. >>> Thanks so much in advance. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Firouz >>> >>> >>> __ >>> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:mailto:iskandar@gmail.com >>> Unsubscribe: send a blank email >>> tomailto:leave-510689-20805...@list.jccc.edu >>> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body >>> toly...@list.jccc.edu <mailto:ly...@list.jccc.edu> >>> Or >>> subscribe:http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >>> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >>> Mail -mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >>> Web -http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >>> News (on-campus only) -news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >>> Old Public -http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net >>> New Public -http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >> >> __ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email >> tomailto:leave-510699-511...@list.jccc.edu >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to >> ly...@list.jccc.edu <mailto:ly...@list.jccc.edu> Or subscribe: >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - >> mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - >> http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus >> only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - >> ht
Re: Hidden Words Persian 77
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Dr. Hai, Do you know how I can access this file? Is there a link to a site? Thanks for additional information. Warm regards, Firouz On 23/6/2010 6:31 PM, Iskandar Hai, M.D. wrote: > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > > Dear Firouz: > > This has been explained by Abdu'l-Baha and by Shoghi Effendi.there is > a file in one of the issues of the Baha'i Studies Review a few years > ago that has compiled the interpretations. > > > Best regards > Iskandar > > > > > > Sent from my iPod > > On Jun 23, 2010, at 2:41 AM, Firouz <mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org>> wrote: > >> The Baha'i Studies Listserv >> >> Dear All, >> >> I have a question about the Hidden Words Persian 77. >> >> O SON OF JUSTICE! In the night-season the beauty of the immortal >> Being hath repaired from the emerald height of fidelity unto the >> Sadratu’l-Muntahá, and wept with such a weeping that the concourse on >> high and the dwellers of the realms above wailed at His lamenting. >> Whereupon there was asked, Why the wailing and weeping? He made >> reply: As bidden I waited expectant upon the hill of faithfulness, >> yet inhaled not from them that dwell on earth the fragrance of >> fidelity. Then summoned to return I beheld, and lo! certain doves of >> holiness were sore tried within the claws of the dogs of earth. >> Thereupon the Maid of heaven hastened forth unveiled and resplendent >> from Her mystic mansion, and asked of their names, and all were told >> but one. And when urged, the first letter thereof was uttered, >> whereupon the dwellers of the celestial chambers rushed forth out of >> their habitation of glory. And whilst the second letter was >> pronounced they fell down, one and all, upon the dust. At that moment >> a voice was heard from the inmost shrine: “Thus far and no farther.” >> Verily We bear witness to that which they have done and now are doing. >> >> I appreciate if someone could explain more about this Hidden Word. >> Also my specific question is to what their refers to. Thanks so much >> in advance. >> >> Best regards, >> Firouz >> >> >> __ >> You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:mailto:iskandar@gmail.com >> Unsubscribe: send a blank email tomailto:leave-510689-20805...@list.jccc.edu >> Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body toly...@list.jccc.edu >> <mailto:ly...@list.jccc.edu> >> Or >> subscribe:http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st >> Baha'i Studies is available through the following: >> Mail -mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu >> Web -http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st >> News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st >> Old Public -http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net >> New Public -http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > __ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:fir...@thai-bahais.org > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-510699-511...@list.jccc.edu > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-510705-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Hidden Words Persian 77
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear All, I have a question about the Hidden Words Persian 77. O SON OF JUSTICE! In the night-season the beauty of the immortal Being hath repaired from the emerald height of fidelity unto the Sadratu’l-Muntahá, and wept with such a weeping that the concourse on high and the dwellers of the realms above wailed at His lamenting. Whereupon there was asked, Why the wailing and weeping? He made reply: As bidden I waited expectant upon the hill of faithfulness, yet inhaled not from them that dwell on earth the fragrance of fidelity. Then summoned to return I beheld, and lo! certain doves of holiness were sore tried within the claws of the dogs of earth. Thereupon the Maid of heaven hastened forth unveiled and resplendent from Her mystic mansion, and asked of their names, and all were told but one. And when urged, the first letter thereof was uttered, whereupon the dwellers of the celestial chambers rushed forth out of their habitation of glory. And whilst the second letter was pronounced they fell down, one and all, upon the dust. At that moment a voice was heard from the inmost shrine: “Thus far and no farther.” Verily We bear witness to that which they have done and now are doing. I appreciate if someone could explain more about this Hidden Word. Also my specific question is to what their refers to. Thanks so much in advance. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:arch...@mail-archive.com Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:leave-510689-274...@list.jccc.edu Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to ly...@list.jccc.edu Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai...@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Sahife Adlie
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Khazeh, Thanks so much once again for your time and elucidation of this Writing of the Bab. Warm regards, Firouz The Baha'i Studies Listserv -Original Message- From: bounce-493310-27...@list.jccc.edu [mailto:bounce-493310-27...@list.jccc.edu] On Behalf Of Firouz Sent: 15 March 2010 03:50 I received the attached from a Muslim friend who is studying the Faith. Is it an authentic Writing of the Bab? The question I am asked is about the text on page 3 of this book which states about Islam بعلت اینکه تبدیلی از برای او مقدر نشده این شریعت مقدسه هم نسخ نخواهد شد بل حلال محمد صلی الله علیع و آله حلال الی یوم اقمیمه و حرام محمد صلی الله علیه و آله حرام الی یوم اقیمه The question is why then Bab abrogated many Islamic laws!!! Best regards, Firouz *** Khazeh humbly writes: Dear brother Firouz Anaraki Yes it is an authentic Writing. Please tell your friend that this text is from the very earliest revelations of the exalted Bab when His full station was not disclosed. What in essence He reveals is that the "permitted" of the Islamic Revelation is permitted until the Qiyaamat i.e. Resurrection of that particular Dispensation and that its "forbidden" remains " forbidden" until the Time of the Qiyaamat of that Dispensation. Later the Bab explains that the Qiyaamat is the Rising of the New Revealer with New Laws New Utterances. This is very interesting and you need time. the great Dr Moojan Momen explains this in an article In his book, the Seven Proofs, the Bab explains that the need for a period of messianic concealment and the gradual unfoldment of his claims arose out of the lack of capacity among the people to accept his full claim at the start of his mission and out of a desire to assist people to gradually come to a full realisation of the magnitude of the Bab's claim: Consider the manifold favours vouchsafed by the Promised One, and the effusions of His bounty which have pervaded the concourse of the followers of Islam to enable them to attain unto salvation. Indeed observe how He Who representeth the origin of creation, He Who is the Exponent of the verse, `I, in very truth, am God', identified Himself as the Gate [Bab] for the advent of the promised Qa'im, a descendant of Muhammad, and in His first Book enjoined the observance of the laws of the Qur'an, so that the people might not be seized with perturbation by reason of a new Book and a new Revelation and might regard His Faith as similar to their own, perchance they would not turn away from the Truth and ignore the thing for which they had been called into being. (Selections from the Writings of the Bab, Haifa, 1976, p. 110). Baha'u'llah has recapitulated and expanded on this in a tablet written to Aqa Mirza Aqa Nuru'd-Din: Thou art well aware that the Commentary on the Ahsan al-Qisas (the Qayyum al-Asma of the Bab) was revealed according to what was current among the people (bi ma `ind an-nas) and this was purely out of bounty and grace that haply the people of negligence and error may ascend to the heaven of knowledge (jabarut-i `ilm). Thus most of what is mentioned in that book is what has been accepted as truth among the Muslims (ahl al-furqan). If what was the Will of God had been sent down from the start, no-one would have been able to bear it and no-one would have remained. All of this is out of His grace and bounty towards His creatures. Observe that at the start of his ministry, that holy one revealed himself in the station of gatehood (babiyyat). This was out of consideration that the birds of the hearts of humanity were not capable of flying above that station . . . The people have been and will continue to be immersed in the ocean of idle fancies and veiled from what God doth will, except those whom God has delivered through His Grace and whom He has caused to recognise what He hath revealed through His command . . . Thus out of grace to them, the Sun of Truth occupied himself with uttering trivia and the Ancient Ocean spoke forth only droplets. Thus it is that the Primal Point hath appeared in the name of gatehood (babiyyat), and the people did not accept even this limited station, let alone any mention of guardianship (lordship, vilayat) and such matters. And this despite the fact that all of these stations and those beyond them have been revealed and come into existence by a single word out of the ocean of his bounty and by his command they also return to annihilation and oblivion. (Quoted in A.Q. Afnan, Zindigani-yi Hadrat-i Bab 203-4) Finally, in a tablet which appears to date from the Edirne period, the Surat al-Fath, Baha'u'llah restates this theme and draws the parallels between the Bab's gradually unfolding claims and his own initial concealment of his claims. First, he describes the gradual unfoldment of the claims of the Bab: So recollect, O people! The moment w
Re: Non-association with covenant-breakers
The Baha'i Studies Listserv Dear Susan, How about children, grandchildren, great grandchildren of covenant breakers who have no claim related to the Faith? Some may consider themselves followers of other religions. Some may not know even their grandparents or great grandparents had been once Baha'is. Warm regards, Firouz > The Baha'i Studies Listserv > >> What about toddlers? >> >> > > Dear David, > > I can't imagine coming into contact with the toddlers of Covenant > breakers without coming into contact with the parents as well. > > warmest, Susan > > __ > You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Or subscribe: > http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st > Baha'i Studies is available through the following: > Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st > News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st > Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.8.5/1757 - Release Date: 30/10/2551 > 14:35 > > __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News (on-campus only) - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
End of Life care
Dear friends,
A Buddhist friend of mine is in process of writing a book about
life-end-care from Buddhist, Christian, and Muslim points of views. He
asked me if I could provide him some Baha'i literature about the
subject. Does anyone know of some Writings from Baha'i Scriptures in
this regard.
He wants his books to be used mainly for people who take care of old or
terminally sick people on how to take care of them, and how to prepare
them for their journey to the next world.
Best regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
[Content Advisory] Re: Islamic Prophecy?
Dear Khazeh,
Thanks so much for your quick reply. I am grateful to you for providing
the answers to all my questions. Thank you.
Warm regards,
Firouz
Bangkok, Thailand
> *Dear Khazeh, dear all,*
>
> * *
>
> *I am wondering if there is any Islamic hadith or prophecy about
> coming of Jews to Israel (holy land).*
>
> *There are such prophecies in Christian scriptures, I wonder if such
> prophecies exists in Islamic scriptures as well?*
>
> * *
>
> *Warm regards,*
>
> *Firouz*
>
> * *
>
> *DearFiruz*
>
> *I cannot place my hand on an Islamic prophecy to have predicted the
> above. But there is a very important hadith of he Prophet of God
> (peace be upon Him) which is quoted in many texts and is readable in
> the pages of Bih.aar ul-Anwaar (Oceans of Lights) and is on the
> internet. (the volumes 51/52/53 are specifically abourt the Promised
> Mahdi/the Qa’im/He Who shall arise)*
>
> *There the Prophet Muh.ammad says:*
>
> *The Mahdi is from Me. From My offspring. Lawnuhu ( i.e. His colour is
> Arabic) but His Body (jismuhu) is that of Israel*
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.aqaed.com/ahlulbait/books/behar51/a10.html*
>
> *
>
> *
>
> *page 95*
>
> *الباب السابع عشر في ذكر صفة المهدي ولونه وجسمه وقد تقدم مرسلا و
> بإسناده عن حذيفة أنه قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله : المهدي
> رجل من ولدي لونه لون عربي وجسمه جسم إسرائيلي*
>
> *I hope you can read the text.*
>
> *I am no interpreter of prophecy. Astaghfirullah (I ask forgiveness of
> God) But I believe sincerely that this is significant and it relates
> to the fact that the Writing of the Revelation being in Arabic and Its
> provenance being related to Islam but that its JISM [its “body”, the
> “structures” that relate to its “JISM”, its physicality will be in
> Israel…). But as you know this whole area is mired in sadness and
> problems.*
>
> * *
>
> *And of course there are verses of divine bestowals on Israel 2:47, *
>
> * *
>
> *And most interestingly the verse reating to the Night Ascent of the
> Prophet [laylat ul israa] in which the Prophet ascends from Mecca
> [Masjid al –h.araam] to Masjid al-Aqs.aa [Jeruslaem] but then the
> verse adds [the environs of which are blessed and sanctified] 17:1*
>
> سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَىٰ بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلًا مِّنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ
> إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الْأَقْصَى *_الَّذِي
> بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ_* لِنُرِيَهُ مِنْ آيَاتِنَا إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ
> الْبَصِيرُ [١٧-١]
>
> [/transliteration-en/] Sub_ha_na alla_th_ee asr_a_ biAAabdihi laylan
> mina almasjidi al_h_ar_a_mi il_a_ almasjidi alaq_sa_ alla_th_ee
> b_a_rakn_a_ _h_awlahu linuriyahu min _a_y_a_tin_a_ innahu huwa
> a*l*ssameeAAu alba_s_eer*u*
>
>
>
> [/shakir/] Glory be to Him Who made His servant to go on a night from
> the Sacred Mosque to the remote mosque of which We have blessed the
> precincts, so that We may show to him some of Our signs; surely He is
> the Hearing, the Seeing.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> ﴾
>
> يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اذْكُرُوا نِعْمَتِيَ الَّتِي أَنْعَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ
> وَأَنِّي فَضَّلْتُكُمْ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ
> [٢-٤٧]
>
> [/transliteration-en/] Y_a_ banee isr_a_eela o_th_kuroo niAAmatiya
> allatee anAAamtu AAalaykum waannee fa_dd_altukum AAal_a_ alAA_a_lameen*a*
>
>
>
> [/shakir/] O children of Israel! call to mind My favor which I
> bestowed on you and that I made you excel
>
> * *
>
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Islamic Prophecy?
Dear Khazeh, dear all,
I am wondering if there is any Islamic hadith or prophecy about coming
of Jews to Israel (holy land).
There are such prophecies in Christian scriptures, I wonder if such
prophecies exists in Islamic scriptures as well?
Warm regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Translation of quote in French please...
Is the following quote from Einstein? How is it in German?
regards,
Firouz
> There are two ways to live your life - one is as though nothing is a
> miracle, the other is as though everything is a miracle
>
> But I think the French is more elegant
>
>
>> "Il existe deux facons de vivre ta vie. Tu peux penser que las
>> miracles n'existent pas. Mais tu peux penser que tout est un miracle."
>>
>
> --
> --
> Sen McGlinn
> ***
> In reality, the radiant, pure hearts are the Mashrak-el-Azcar
>and from them the voice of supplication and
> invocation continually reacheth the Supreme Concourse.
> Tablets of `Abdu'l-Baha Abbas, p. 678
> --
>
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Infallibility of the Prophets
Talking about sins, I think of what Abdu'l-Baha says in Some Answered
Questions:
*"The good deeds of the righteous are the sins of the Near Ones"*
Does that not mean that sins or good deeds are relative?
Warm regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Payam Baha'i
Does anyone know how to subscribe for the Persian Payam-e Baha'i magazine?
The information and address and how to pay for subscription is highly
appreciated.
Best regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Any Hindus in Egypt???
Dear Hajir,
As far as I know there is no Egyptians living in Egypt or anywhere else
who have any other religions other than Islam, Christianity, or Judaism.
Of course now there Baha'i Egyptians.
There might be Hindus or Buddhists working or living in Egypt for
Business or what so ever reason but they are not citizens of Egypt. Here
we're talking about Egyptian ID card. As you know if any of these
Buddhists or Hindus would ever marry to an Egyptian Muslim, they have to
change their religions and become Muslims.
Best regards,
Firouz
>
> Does anyone know if there are any Hindus or Buddhists in Egypt, and if
> so, what would they use to identify themselves if the only 3 options
> are Jewish, Christian, and Muslim (there is not even an other
> category)? I cannot believe that out of 70 or so million people there
> are no Hindus from India living there. Are they all on a working visa
> and not citizens of Egypt? I tried to search population demographics
> of Egypt and didn't find anything other than that there are Zero 0
> Buddhists in Egypt.
>
> Thanks,
> Hajir
>
>
> Cheap Talk? Check out
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman8/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=39663/*http://voice.yahoo.com>
>
> Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.
>
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Baha'i prayer for newly born
Dear friends,
A friend of mine is looking for a Baha'i prayer for newly born baby. He
believe Abdu'l-Baha has revealed such a prayer. Does anyone know about
this prayer and could possibly share it with us.
Best regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Some help
Gilberto Simpson wrote:
Offhand, another prominent Muslim who has spoken up on behalf of
Bahais is Shirin Ebadi, a Muslim woman who won the Nobel Peace Prize a
while back.
http://bahai-library.com/?file=shirin_ebadi_articles
Dear Gilberto:
Shirin Ebadi as a human-right activist who has helped minorities in
Iran. She has helped political prisoners and Baha'i prisoners as well.
That does not mean that she has the same opinion as political prisoners
or recognizes Baha'i Faith as a religion or Baha'is as the people of the
Book. As a fair lawyer she has been fighting for the rights of women in
Iran, Muslims and non-Muslims. Also you should remember that she is no
authority in Islamic world to be able to issue any fatwa in this regard.
Personally I met her in Bangkok and I spend 4 days with her as her
translator and I know well about her opinions and what she thinks about
religion in general.
Best regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Some help
Dear Iskandar,
It's not only Iran that does not recognize Baha'is as people of Book.
All Middle Eastern countries and their Sunni or Shia
scholars/imams/mullahs/muftis do not recognize Baha'is as people of
Book, neither do they recognize Baha'i Faith a religion from God. You
can also check this site of Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_the_Book
Baha'is would be quite happy if they are counted as people of the Book by
Shi`ah Muslims of Iran or by any other Muslim government or society. That
would give us some legal entity. Right now, we are non-persons as far as
the Islamic Republic of Iran is concerned. I wish they'd count us as ahl-i
kitAb. If a Muslim murders a Baha'i in Iran, the victim's family has no
legal recourse.
Iskandar
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: kalimat- accepting apparent disagreements over interpretation of the writings
Gilberto Simpson wrote:
And I know I've said this before, but
Al-Azhar, the highly respected Sunni institution declared in a fatwa
that the Jaffari school (the major Shia school) is recognized as
legally valid as a way to practice Islam.
Here is the fatwa issued by Al-Azhar:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Azhar_Shia_Fatwa
I don't think shias agree with such a fatwa to consider Shiaism as
equal as other (part of) schools of Sunnis equal to Hanbali, Malaki,
etc.
So in your list above, there are basically two groups, people who
consider themselves sunni and people who consider themselves shia. And
at least the Sunnis recognize the validity of the Shias. (And there
are Shia scholars who would say the corresponding thing).
Here are two articles about Shias and Sunnis from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni
Best regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Translation as interpretation
Susan Maneck wrote:
Dear Simeon,
What the House said was a bit more nuanced than that: "Shoghi Effendi's translations of the
Writings of Bahá'u'lláh into English carry with them a large measure of interpretation of the
intent and purpose of the Author of the text -- an interpretation which he, as Interpreter of the
Sacred Text, could alone authoritatively provide . . ." They also wrote: "the beloved
Guardian was not only a translator but the inspired Interpreter of the Holy Writings; thus, where a
passage in Persian or Arabic could give rise to two different expressions in English he would know
which one to convey. Similarly he would be much better equipped than an average translator to know
which metaphor to employ in English to express a Persian metaphor which might be meaningless in
literal translation."
Dear Susan,
Baha'u'llah in the Kitab-i-Iqan says:
"We speak one word, and by it we intend one and seventy meanings; each
one of these meanings we can explain."
(Baha'u'llah: The Kitab-i-Iqan, Page: 255)
So I am wondering how one word if in Persian or Arabic might have 71
meanings, its equivalent English translation could have the same 71
meanings? I guess then a sentence or phrase containing many words,
might have thousands of meanings. Could you elaborate more on this.
Thanks so much.
Best regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Speed of Light
Hasan Elias:
> Thank Firouz for the information, I
found it very interesting.
Dear Hasan,
But do you agree with such an
interpretation of Quran to prove that speed of light is indirectly mentioned in
this holy book, or similar claims from other holy scriptures?
Regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Great Disappointment
The following from http://www.answers.com is quite interesting to read
called "The great disappointment".
http://tinyurl.com/7s9do
or
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=&deid=830797945&nogray
regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Fwd: Interesting thread
"Do you think it is possible to understand a religious text without
believing in it?"
Dear Gilberto,
Yes, it's possible. I became a Baha'i by reading and reading Baha'i books,
specially those revealed by the Central Figures of the Faith. I could
understand them well and that's why I decided to become a Baha'i in my late
teens.
regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Universal House of Justice and charity
I heard that the House gave money towards tsunami relief. Does the House
often give to charity? Can someone fill me in on this subject?
Regards,
David
Dear David,
As a Baha'i in Thailand, I can confirm that the Universal House of Justice
sent some money to our NSA to assist those affected in Tsunami. Our NSA and
many LSAs and individual Baha'is here also contributed towards this purpose
and then the whole amount was contributed to those affected in Tsunami
specially the children who lost their parents. I also heard from some Baha'i
friends in Indonesia and Sri Lanka that the House has also contributed to
those affected in those countries too.
Warm regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: Questions lead to questions more often than not
Iskandar:
>>I doubt if much, or any, progress has been made in recent days on these
threads. Did anyone really change their mind in any minor or major way? <<
Dear Iskandar,
I guess no one has changed his/her mind here. But some of us including
myself have learnt a lot from this on-going discussions. I don't think the
main purpose is just to convince anyone. I have learnt a lot personally from
the more learned friends here.
Warm regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: A couple of questions
Gilberto:
That is actually an interesting point. In the Quran it specifically
condemns the ancient Arab practice of burying daughters in favor of
sons for similar reasons. And even in 2005, with advanced technology,
in some parts of the world a brutal practice like that continues in
some form.<<
The question under discussion is what should be done in those societies or
countries where there is shortage of women, i.e a solution for today's
China!
regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: A couple of questions
At the same time, don't you think the mainstream Muslims represent a
significant departure from Prophet Muhammad Teachings?
Not in the way I am talking about.
Dear Gilberto,
I understand your explanation about the mainstream Christians and Muslims.
You're right in your explanation. You have just described the time during
the short period of manifestation of Christ and rather long prophethood of
Muhammad.
But then the situation after the death of Christ and Prophet Muhammad is
more or less the same. Just upon the death of Prophet, His followers divided
and each group interpreted Prophet's Words differently. Today the mainstream
Muslims beliefs are very different among various Muslim countries, and even
may have changed from the original Teachings of the Prophet. There is no
center of authority to explain what the Teachings of Islam really is. Any
clergy can issue a fatwa based on his own understanding of Islam. Many times
these fatwas are very contradictory.
Just some thoughts.
regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent
by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and
for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by
federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message
is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please
immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message
and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: A couple of questions
Scott:
> Some societies had a shortage of women and polyandry was practiced there -
> tibet and Bhutan for instance.
In China today there is shortage of women due to one child policy in China
for so many years. Many Chinese killed their daughters in order to have a
son. Many Chinese men cannot find a wife in China today, specially among
poorer Chinese families.
How about exporting some Chinese men to those societies where there is
shortage of men? ;-)
Regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: A couple of questions
Gilberto:
>>I'm not sure what your point is. Bahais who hate Muslims also think
they are good Bahais too. We all have to engage in a process of
self-criticism. But that's an individual process.<<
I don't think Baha'is hate Muslims or anyone else as hatred is against the
Teachings of Baha'u'llah. But many of the laws that Muslims follow today,
i.e. Jihad is part of the Teaching of Islam followed by some Muslims,
killing of apostates are done today in some Muslim countries. In a few
Muslim countries women are still stoned to death for adultery.
Here is what Baha'u'llah says about hatred:
"Religious fanaticism and hatred are a world-devouring fire, whose violence
none can quench."
"O people of Justice! Be as brilliant as the light, and as splendid as the
fire that blazed in the Burning Bush. The brightness of the fire of your
love will no doubt fuse and unify the contending peoples and kindreds of the
earth, whilst the fierceness of the flame of enmity and hatred cannot but
result in strife and ruin. We beseech God that He may shield His creatures
from the evil designs of His enemies. He verily hath power over all things."
There are so many other quotes of Abdu'l-Baha against hatred. So please just
do not assume that Baha'is hate Muslims.
Regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: A couple of questions
Gilberto:
>>Yeah, I see what you are saying. But personally I wouldn't be as
generous. I would say mainstream Christianity represents a significant
departure from Jesus' original teaching. And I think Paul was largely
responsible for the shift.<<
At the same time, don't you think the mainstream Muslims represent a
significant departure from Prophet Muhammad Teachings? Please carefully
observe majority of Muslims in Muslim countries and the fatwas of Islamic
scholars during last century or so.
In another email you quoted:
"I wouldn't say it was "necessary". Even in the time of the prophet Muhammad
there were Hanifs, spiritual people who had rejected the idolatry around
them and were worshiping the one true God. Even in the time of Jesus, there
were spiritual communities of Jews who had a pretty deep understanding of
the law and had a healthy attitude towards the law."
I agree here with you and even at the time of Baha'u'llah there were
spiritual Muslims and Christians. Even today there are some spiritual people
among the followers of all the past religions. But we are talking about
mainstream as you mentioned.
Regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail")
is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The
information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts
or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended
recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or
copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail
in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and
permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: A couple of questions
Gilberto:
> To me it makes sense to just say, Muslims should be the
best Muslims they can be. Bahais should be the best Bahais they can be. And
leave it to God to judge people's deeds and intentions.<
But how one defines good or best? I am
sure those Muslims who have called for Jihad against West and USA consider
themselves as the best Muslim. They may think that they are following the laws
of Islam, i.e. Jihad to the best of their abilities. Some Islamic countries
consider killing the apostate, stoning women to death for acts of adultery, chopping
one’s hand for robbery, or beheading a person for some crime is following
Islam to its best of Shariah. Are these considered best in today’s world?
Regards,
Firouz
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
RE: A couple of questions
Dear Tim,
I fully concur with you. I was raised a
Shiah Muslim and when I decided to become a Baha’i, I never thought I am abandoning
Islam, or its Teaching. I thought and still think that I am a true Muslim even
though the government of Iran
considers me an apostate and a death penalty awaits me by my government. I just
consider Baha’i as the next chapter of the never ending Book of God.
Regards,
Firouz
I think it depends on who is defining the change of
belief.
I was raised as a Christian (Roman Catholic). When I
embraced the Baha'i Faith, I did not reject the teachings of
Jesus, so in my view I am not an apostate from Christianity.
But I think some Christians would say I am an apostate.
Tim Nolan
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Abbas
Dear Susan and Monder,
The name Abbas is very important for Shia Muslims
as well. Abbas was the half brother of Imam Hussein who was martyred with Imam
Hussein in Karbala.
regards,
Firouz
- Original Message -
From:
Monder M
Zbaeda
To: Baha'i Studies
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 2:42
PM
Subject: RE: Abbas
Dear Susan,
Yes, Abu Talib was firm although it is debated whether he accepted
Muhammad's 'divinity'. To my knowledge, Abbas was captured at Badr but to
my knowledge he accepted Islam shortly afterwards. He buried the Prophet's
body along with Ali b.Abu Talib and other members of His household.
Maybe my initial description is debated, but as ever, 'Al Hikmah lillah'
,God is the only Judge.
My kindest regards,
Monder M ZbaedaSusan Maneck
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"
Indeed, Muhammad's paternal uncle was called 'Abbas b. 'Abdul Mutallib.
Afirm believer and guardian of his Beloved nephnew."Dear
Monder,I think you are confusing Abbas with Abu Talib who was
Muhammad's guardianand protector. Abbas does not become a believer until
the Medina period. Infact, as I recall he is one of the Meccan captives
during the Battle ofBadr. Abbasid dynasty was founded by his
descendents.warmest, SusanThe information
contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by
the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be
confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above.
The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and
disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not
the intended recipient,! you are notified that retention, dissemination,
distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have
received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply
and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any
attachments thereto. Thank
you.__You
are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe: send a blank email to
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe: send subscribe
bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subscribe:
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-stBaha'i
Studies is available through the following:Mail -
mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.eduWeb -
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-stNews -
news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-stPublic -
http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaistOld Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.netNe! w Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've
developed the all new Yahoo!
Security Centre.
__ You are subscribed to
Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: send a blank
email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe: send subscribe
bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe:
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st Baha'i
Studies is available through the following: Mail -
mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web -
http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st News -
news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public -
http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: The Greatest Name
Dear Tim,
A friend asked a similar question from the UHJ, and the
following is the reply he received.
At the end of this, I quote a passage from Abdu'l-Baha
regarding the Greatest Name.
regards, Firouz
---
Dear Baha'i Friend, In your email of 8 January
2000, you have raised the question of whetherit is necessary to use the
phrase "Allah-u-Abha" when observing the law ofrepeating the Greatest Name
95 times, or alternatively if the equivalenttranslation in the language of
an individual's choice could be used. TheUniversal House of Justice
has considered your query, and we have been askedto convey the
following. In the Long Obligatory Prayer when the
worshipper is required to use theMost Great Name, and in the Prayer for the
Dead when the Most Great Name isrepeated six times, the words to be used are
"Allah-u-Abha" and not theirtranslation in the language or languages of our
choice. Similarly, for therepetition of the Greatest Name 95 times a
day, "Allah-u-Abha" should beused. To assist you
to deepen your knowledge of the significance of theGreatestName, we are
enclosing with the confirmatory copy of this email
thefollowingdocuments:- some pertinent extracts of letters
written on behalf of the Guardian- a compilation of references to a
derivative of the Greatest Name, "Ya Baha'u'l-Abha"-
an article written by Hand of the Cause of God Abu'l-Qasim
Faizi,entitled "Explanation of the Emblem
of the Greatest Name", published in theOctober 1968 issue of
the United States Baha'i News.It is hoped that with time a deeper
understanding of the Arabic phrase"Allah-u-Abha" will be instilled within
your
heart.
With loving Baha'i
greetings,
Department of the SecretariatEnclosures 3 (with confirmatory
copy)-
The Greatest Name [Allah'u'Abha, which means'God is Most
Glorious'] should be found upon the lipsin the first awaking moment of early
dawn. It shouldbe fed upon by constant use in daily invocation,
introuble, under opposition, and should be the last wordbreathed when
the head rests upon the pillow at night.It is the name of comfort,
protection, happiness,illumination, love and unity. "I hope that thou
mayestbecome informed of the concealed mystery andrecondite symbol of
the stone of the Most GreatName ... The use of the Greatest Name and
dependenceupon it, cause the soul to strip itself of the husks
ofmortality and to step forth freed, reborn, and
newcreature..."
`Abdu'l-Bahá, United States Supplement toBahá'í News No. 80 p. 2, October
1964
The information contained in this e-mail and any attachments thereto ("e-mail") is sent by the Johnson County Community College ("JCCC") and is intended to be confidential and for the use of only the individual or entity named above. The information may be protected by federal and state privacy and disclosures acts or other legal rules. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient, you are notified that retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error please immediately notify JCCC by email reply and immediately and permanently delete this e-mail message and any attachments thereto. Thank you.
__
You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com
Unsubscribe: send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: send subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subscribe: http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/all_forums/subscribe?name=bahai-st
Baha'i Studies is available through the following:
Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Web - http://list.jccc.edu:8080/read/?forum=bahai-st
News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st
Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist
Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net
New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
The knowledge that eliminates fear
Dear Khazeh, I would like to thank you for your explanation. I do always enjoy reading what you have to say. Very enlightening indeed. Thanks also for explaining about "imma ya/tiyannakum" Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
[Spam:50%] The Knowledge that Eliminates Fear
Dear FriendsAny thoughts on the following two quotations would be much appreciated. regards, Firouz "In the treasuries of the knowledge of God there lieth concealed a knowledge which, when applied, will largely, though not wholly, eliminate fear. This knowledge, however, should be taught from childhood, as it will greatly aid in its elimination. Whatever decreaseth fear increaseth courage. Should the Will of God assist Us, there would flow out from the Pen of the Divine Expounder a lengthy exposition of that which hath been mentioned, and there would be revealed, in the field of arts and sciences, what would renew the world and the nations. A word hath, likewise, been written down and recorded by the Pen of the Most High in the Crimson Book which is capable of fully disclosing that force which is hid in men, nay of redoubling its potency. We implore God--exalted and glorified be He--to graciously assist His servants to do that which is pleasing and acceptable unto Him."Baha'u'llah EPISTLE TO THE SON OF THE WOLF pp 32 "Unfortunately it would seem that the knowledge `which could largely eliminate fear' has not been disclosed or identified by Baha'u'llah, so we do not know what it is." DIRECTIVES FROM THE GUARDIAN no. 46 "And if he feareth not God, God will make him to fear allthings; whereas all things fear him who feareth God."Baha'u'llah THE SEVEN VALLEYS pp 58 __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Happy New Year
Dear Rich, 1st and 2nd of Muharram are very important for Baha'is too. Birthday of the Bab is on 1st of Muharram and the Birthday of Baha'u'llah on 2nd of Muharram based on lunar calendar. Baha'is in whole Middle East celebrate these 2 days which are accounted as one in the sight of God. Happy Twin Birthdays. regards, Firouz Gilberto, Sorry this is late. Yesterday was the 1st of Muharram. Happy New Year! Rich __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Islamic Prophecies and the Baha'i Faith
Gilberto: Yes. For example, there were Christian abolitionists before the Babi/Bahai faith banned slavery. So human beings were able to look at the institution of slavery, and applying basic moral principles were able to see that slavery was a bad thing which should be changed. << Firouz: Based on your logic above, one can conclude that there was no need for God to send any of His Messengers as people are capable of figuring out everything. If Christians could figure it out, was there any need for Prophet Mohammad? regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Scope of the House of Justice
Susan: That strikes me as as big a leap as reading the Guardianship into that passage. My point is not so much that the verse points to a Guardian as that it establishes that the Universal House of Justice can exist without one. Dear Susan, My understanding from Baha'u'llah's Writings is that Universal House of Justice will be established without a Guardian. I have not seen any Writing from Baha'u'llah to indicate that one of the Aghsan should be a member of the House of Justice or any other relationship between Aghsan and the House. regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Scope of the House of Justice
Brent: In like manner, though the subject of Paragraph 42 of the Aqdas is the wakf, the "endowments dedicated to charity," the contents have reference to the institution of the Guardianship, and to the all-important matter of the succession after the Manifestation.<< Dear Brent, I cannot see what the reference here to Guardianship is? Do you have the exact quote of Guardian or the House about K42? Regarding K42, as far as I understand in Islamic Law, waqf is a permanent charitable endowment. A property when set aside for waqf is said to be owned by God in Islamic Law and is exempt from taxation and it cannot be sold. It is very similar to an earmarked fund for a given purpose. A property which has been set aside for waqf usually has its management team (naazir) which is usually the male descendants of the original founder. But if the family line of the naazir die out or the beneficiary for which the waqf was founded ceases to exist then the question is who gets the waqf and manages its income. In Ottoman Empire at the time of Baha'u'llah State could seize such properties. I think K42 is answering the question of waqf when it has lost their beneficiaries. This verse does not say that all awqaaf automatically fall under Aghsan (or now the House of Justice). The House of Justice in this verse may as well mean houses of justice, as the word in Arabic is bilaad which means lands or cities which has been translated "its authority in the world". So it may mean that the local spiritual assembly who has authority over that city control awqaaf of that city when beneficiaries ceased to exist. That's all I understand about this K42 of the Most Holy Book. I cannot see any reference to Guardianship or He being infallible (no matter what it means). By saying this I am not saying that the Institution of Guardianship is a wrong institution, God forbids. I do believe in Master after Baha'u'llah and His interpretation of Baha'i Writings being infallible. Again I would like to emphasize that I am not undermining the authority of the Guardian by saying that I see no reference to Institution of Guardianship in K42. Regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Holy of Holies = Perennial Wisdom?,
Gilberto: What would be left to [Buddhists] to cling to from the setting of the day-star of [Sidhartha Gautama] until the rise of the [next Manifestation (Jesus?)] What law could be their stay and guide? Buddha has revealed many nice spiritual teaching similar to 10 commandments of Moses. These Teaching of Buddha are still known and Buddhist follow them to the best of their abilities. For example, among Buddha's teaching is : Don't tell lie, don't drink, don't steal, don't commit adultery, and many other dos and don'ts similar to other religions. But when I ask my Buddhist friends why they drink when Buddha has instructed not to drink, some say that He meant the monks not to drink, some say that He meant not to drink so much to get drunk, and some would simply say that would be fine, he doesn't mind being reborn as an animal. regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Scope of the House of Justice
Dear Susan, you wrote: What the rest of the Baha'i community did was go back to what Baha'u'llah said was to happen if His lineage ran out before the election of the Universal House of Justice. This was stated in the Aqdas: "Endowments dedicated to charity revert to God, the Revealer of Signs. None hath the right to dispose of them without leave from Him Who is the Dawning-place of Revelation. After Him, this authority shall pass to the Aghsán, and after them to the House of Justice--should it be established in the world by then--that they may use these endowments for the benefit of the Places which have been exalted in this Cause, and for whatsoever hath been enjoined upon them by Him Who is the God of might and power. Otherwise, the endowments shall revert to the people of Bahá who speak not except by His leave and judge not save in accordance with what God hath decreed in this Tablet--lo, they are the champions of victory betwixt heaven and earth--that they may use them in the manner that hath been laid down in the Book by God, the Mighty, the Bountiful." I think this verse in Kitab-i-Aqdas is just referring to the matter of endowmwnt (vaqf and oqaf) and how it should be handled. Why should one relate it to Guardian? I have also heard some Baha'is saying that by this verse Baha'u'llah indeed talked about the institution of Guardianship. Personally I think this verse is not saying anything about this institution or what you're saying above. Do you have any authorized comments about this verse that I may have not seen. That is pretty much what we did until the Universal House of Justice was elected in 1963. Note that Baha'u'llah assumes here that the House of Justice can operate without an "Aghsan" (a descendent of Baha'u'llah) which the Will and Testament stipulated a Guardian had to be. As far as I understand Baha'u'llah never mentions about the Institution of Guardian. Abdu'l-Baha created this institution and I guess it was meant to be temporary. Regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Holy of Holies = Perennial Wisdom?,
Gilberto: Ok, I believe you. But then when you are in your Bahai paradigm, and read that the Buddha is identified with being a Manifestation, but the teachings of real live Buddhists in the world don't seem to be consistent with the Bahai teachings, I'm not sure what you do. Do you bracket the paradigm of the real live Buddhists away from the Bahai paradigm so that they are never compared with one another? Or do you do something else? Many Buddhists do not believe in concept of God but Buddha indeed believed in God. There a very scholary book on this subject called "The God of Buddha" by Jamshed Fozdar. He refers to Buddhist scriptures in Pali and Scanscrit and proves that Buddha indeed believed in God. For example, when Buddha talks about cause and effect, He says that there is a Causeless Cause of all the causes. Living in a Buddhist country, I know Buddhists believe in lots of superstitions and nonsense man-made teachings but no one can conclude that such teachings are from Buddha. Actually some branches of Mahayan Buddhism indeed believe in God. Regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson
Ahang: The verse in the Tablet of Ahmad doesn't appear to me to be an invitation to produce man-made verses. He is stating that it's impossible for men to come up with such verses, even if they poll all their smarts together, which could rival His verses. That is, His verses will always be superior to whatever men produced. Dear Ahang, I thought I was saying the same thing as you're saying here. I am sorry maybe my bad usage of wrong words in English language caused some to misunderstand me. regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson
Dear Firouz, I never read that passage that way. I thought He was asking them to come up with proof they believed in God, not come up with better verses. warmest, Susan Dear Susan, I remember long long time back when I was living in Dubai we had a deepening class about Tablet of Ahmad, our Egyptian teacher explained it to us this way. Actually he emphasized that in Tablet of Ahmad Baha'u'llah goes one step further than Quran and allows people to assist one another to produce a verse like His. To me it makes lots of sense and the following from Epistle to the Son of the Wolf is also saying something similar. `O ye peoples of the earth! Turn yourselves towards Him Who hath turned towards you. He, verily, is the Face of God amongst you, and His Testimony and His Guide unto you. He hath come to you with signs which none can produce.' The voice of the Burning Bush is raised in the midmost heart of the world, and the Holy Spirit calleth aloud among the nations: `Lo, the Desired One is come with manifest dominion!' regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson
Gilberto addressing Mark: It seems like you are reading it correctly. I just don't think I would agree with it. The Quran actually invites people to examine itself for contradictions. Dares people to try to come up with verses like it. In other places the Quran also calls itself "the Criterion" but I don't know of a place where it declares itself immune from criticism. Firouz: Baha'u'llah also challenges people to come up a verse like what Baha'u'llah has revealed and goes further and allows them to assist each other: " O people, if ye deny these verses, by what proof hath ye believed in God? Produce it, O assemblage of false ones. Nay, by the One in Whose hand is my soul, they are not, and never shall be able to do this, even should they combine to assist one another." I think this is a big challenge Baha'u'llah is inviting people to produce a verse like what He is revealing. Regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters
Then wouldn't we be more like Islam and only regard specific Writings written in a certain state as revelation, rather than anything that issued from Baha'u'llah's Pen? I do believe what ever Baha'u'llah penned was the Words of God. His Person being the Supreme Manifestation of God. But at the same time He had a physical body with many physical limitation very similar to ours. When He says that He is in pain, that may not be the Word of God that He is expressing, He as a human being feels pain and expresses his feeling. It seems to me that in the Baha'i Faith it is the Manifestation who is ultimately the Word of God and whatever He reveals is such only secondarily. Yes that's true but it also depends on how one interprets it. I am sure you well know about the Tablet of Jamal Brujerdi where Baha'u'llah explains about His stations. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters
Firouz: [" My understanding of Omniscient in Law-i-Hikmat refers to His divine station. Baha'u'llah in His Divine station is God and Omniscient but in His Physical station He had His physical limitations similar to all of us. That's why He read books and newspapers." Susan: Yeah, but what does that mean in rea life? Sometimes Baha'u'llah indicates He accessed the contents of books supernaturally, other times He states He did so the usual way. Dear Susan, It might be as well just during the revelation that Baha'u'llah is divine and He is the Voice of God.and when He says I am Omniscient, in fact I refers to God. regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: How to pick a prophet? Re: Arson
Janine: It could be that at a young age this woman recognised the purity and specialness of the Prophet and was therefore very willing to marry Him. Should the Prophet marry any girl (no matter what age) who would like to get married to Him? regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters
Firouz: " Could omniscience of Manifestation of God be at spiritual level only but not physical level? " Susan: Dear Firouz, I would certainly feel more comfortable if this was the case, but that doesn't appear to be what Baha'u'llah is saying in the Lawh-i Hikmat at all. It also does not appear to reflect the Guardian's understanding. Dear Susan, My understanding of Omniscient in Law-i-Hikmat refers to His divine station. Baha'u'llah in His Divine station is God and Omniscient but in His Physical station He had His physical limitations similar to all of us. That's why He read books and newspapers. Warm regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Questions about Omniscience and related matters
In studying the Writings, we should not take a single verse on its own, but rather take a wide selection of the writings. Dear Firouz, I would take this to mean that sometimes Baha'u'llah accessed books supernaturally and other times He did so the old fashion way. In other words, most of the time, He didn't 'will' omniscience. Dear Susan, Could omniscience of Manifestation of God be at spiritual level only but not physical level? regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: punishment of crimes - was arson.
Didn't the French NSA approve of Remey's claims at the time? Werethere only 200 Bahais in France at the time? Five of the NSA voted to go with Remey. The Hands sent in a couple representatives and declared the French NSA to be dissolv ed. A new French NSA was elected and few French Baha`i's stayed with the five members who voted to follow Remey. There were more than 200 French Baha`is but very few stayed with Remey. Thanks to quick handling by the Hands. Regards, Scott __ If I am not mistaken, after the Hands of the Cause talked to the NSA of France, only 2 (or maybe 3) members continued their support for Remey and later were declared covenant breakers. The other members of the NSA and majority of French Baha'is remained steadfast in the covenant. Regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: The Infallibility of the House of Justice (long)
Dear Susan, Thanks so much for sharing your thought son this matter. Enlightening indeed. regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Arson
My understanding based on K73 of Kitab-i-Aqdas is that capital punishment is not to be exercised in a Baha'i State. "... Let none contend with another, and let no soul slay another; this, verily, is that which was forbidden you in a Book that hath lain concealed within the Tabernacle of glory. What! Would ye kill him whom God hath quickened, whom He hath endowed with spirit through a breath from Him? Grievous then would be your trespass before His throne! Fear God, and lift not the hand of injustice and oppression to destroy what He hath Himself raised up; nay, walk ye in the way of God, the True One. No sooner did the hosts of true knowledge appear, bearing the standards of Divine utterance, than the tribes of the religions were put to flight, save only those who willed to drink from the stream of everlasting life in a Paradise created by the breath of the All-Glorious." regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Usama Bin Laden calls Mahmoud Abbas a Baha'i
Is there any truth to this rumor? I thought read somewhere that one or both of Abbas' parents were Baha'i. It seems to me very similar to situation in Iran both before the Islamic revolution and after the Islamic revolution, to discredit someone it's just enough to spread the rumor that either a person is Baha'i or somehow have some links to Baha'is. Regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Century of Light
Mark : If I might throw in my 2¢ here. To my understanding, the infallibility of the House of Justice refers to its legislative decisions based on an elucidation of the Text. Personally, I understand "legislation" as dealing, broadly, with matters of praxis. Yesterday I suggested that the approval of documents, such as _Century of Light_, might not fall under the legislative "magisterium" of the House of Justice. I would also question whether certain of its own papers and letters, those which do not focus on praxis, would be included in its legislative authority. << Dear Mark, Thanks for your comment. Here is my question. Let's assume that the House of Justice actually consulted on the contents of "Century of Light" and decided to write it by themselves, similar to Ridvan Messages, do you then consider it "Century of Light" still an infallible document? How do you regard such messages of the House, i.e. Ridvan Messages? There is usuallaly no "praxis" in such messages. Another question, House comes with some plans, such as the current 5 year plan, do you consider such plans as infallible? I am sure that what ever decision the House makes is to be followed by believers and it's the source of all good but still there is a distinction between a decision being infallible and a decision being the source of all good. regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Century of Light
Susan, I have my own personal opinion as well, which differs somewhat from Schaefer's, but I figured Gilberto was asking for something authoritative. warmest, Susan Dear Susan, Thanks so much for your reply. I read Schaefer's article some time back and personally based on my own understanding I do agree with most of what he has to say about the infallibility of the House. I do appreciate to read what you have to say on the same subject. Thanks so much for sharing your ideas. Why the House does not write anything about this subject? Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Century of Light
Gilberto: Is there an exhaustive statement somewhere which explains thedifference between which actions, decisions, statements from the UHJare infallible (in which sense?) and which are not? Susan: Nope. Dear Susan, I thought the House is infallible on matters of legislation. Are you saying they are infallible on every decision they make? Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi - a data point from Houston
Susan: "Exactly. And we do need to keep in mind that Ruhi wasn't designed for us, it was designed to consolidate mass enrollments." Dear Susan, Why then are we encouraged and sometimes sort of forced to enroll for these courses? Is it just to increase statistics? Regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Study Circles That Count
Tim : >> Why should a person care if anyone is willing to count his effort officially? This is the same problem as what I was talking about with study circles. In the concern for having an effort "count" toward a goal, it is easy to forget why one is making the effortin the first place. << One should provide a service and be fully detached. If one is doing a service he should not do it for the rewards in this world or next world. But the institutions counts a lot on goals. During last few unit conventions and national conventions that I have observed in part of Asia, the consultations have been always on 3 core activities and the representatives of various institutions showing various reports on statistics of how many have finished book 1 and how many devotional meetings have been held and etc. And again statistics of communities with cluster C and B and how to move from C to B and etc. All consultations have been on these issues as if there is nothing else in the Faith to consult about. Do such statistcs count? Do they prove anything? It seems to me very similar to those old days that believers were encouraged to go to various cities and villages during Ridvan to encourage friends to form LSAs. We had lots of paper LSAs. Why should institutions care so much about statistics? Personally I think Study Circles, or clustering do not create strong Baha'i communities. What really could create strong Baha'is and Baha'i communities is for us to recognize the station of Baha'u'llah and fall in love with Him and His Teachings. If one undersatnds His station as Supreme Manifestation of God for this Age then one even sacrifice his/her life for Baha'u'llah. best regards, Firouz Suppose, for example, that a Baha'i moved to a town where there no other Baha'is, and suppose that by his efforts, and God's help, but with no officially counted study circles, after 5 years a Spiritual Assembly was formed. That is a significant achievement regardless of whether anyone else says it "counts". If someone says that raising up an LSA doesn't "count", because the process didn't involve officially approved study circlesif someone says that, who cares? The important thing, in this example, is that the Faith was established in a place where previously there were no Baha'is. No matter what anyone else says, that effort counts with God. Achieving measureable goals is fine, but the goal is not what matters most. The goal is not the end, it is only a means to the end. What matters is the spiritual transformation, the increased devotion to the Cause, the rising up to serve... that's what is important. If someone says it doesn't "count" because it wasn't done according to some formula, that is mere ignorance; their unwillingness to "count" the result doesn't change the fact that the result is a real benefit. Let the critics say what they want; efforts motivated by pure intent and devotion always count with those who see past the surface of things. Tim Nolan Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! Search presents - Jib Jab's 'Second Term' __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi in Thailand
After all how many people in the USa, Bahai and non=Bahai, send their children to an educational institute where the teachers do not have any qualifications in education? That's true, the parents everywhere would like to send their children to a good school with professional teachers. But the point is that doing 1 or 2 Ruhi courses does not make one professional in teaching children classes. I have done book 3 (just out of obediance to our institutions) but believe me I cannot handle a children class. I am not so good with children education even though I am actually in academic field and teaching at university level. But my wife who has not done book 3 yet is so good with children and children classes that I see it's in her nature to be an educator of children. Or how many people would hire a person as a secretary who has not gone through a secretarial school? Many will hire a secretary by looking at their previous work experience. A degree does not prove much. Meaning that childrens class teacher is a job, is a position for which people can be assigned, can be asked, or can volunteer. To look for the best person means one is looking for skills and characteristics, and in the world today a lot of people think that qualifications, having done a certain course indicate that that person has the skills needed for the job. At this time when we have lack of human resources, it would be much better for all of us to make use of our resources to best of our abilities. I have seen some places where they had such requirement, the number of children classes in fact reduced as there were not eneough children class teachers who have finished book 3. So the LSA of that place was urging friends there to come and study book 3 to be able to offer more children classes. regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi in Thailand
Janine: "You may be right that you might not be considered qualified to give childrens classes if you have not done book 3. And that is a perfectly legitimate decision of any LSA to make." Dear Janine, Here I cannot agree with you. There have been and there are excellent children class teachers who have been doing a great job. To me it shows stupidity of a decision by an LSA to require all children class teachers to pass Book 3 or now a days Book 5. It would be similar to tell a Baha'i Teacher not to teach the Faith unless he/she has finished book 2 and book 6. best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and State
Dear Susan, I'm not sure what to make of that last statement, whether you are suggesting that Baha'is play down their belief in world peace through world governance or whether we should down play the role Baha'i institutions are eventually expected to play in this process as we move from the Lesser Peace to the Most Great Peace? I am not saying that Baha'is should down play their belief in world peace. World peace is what Baha'u'llah promised and it will be achieved. Besides World Tribunal, Guardian Writings refer to World Parliament too. Here is from the World Order of Baha'u'llah: "Such a state will have to include within its orbit an international executive adequate to enforce supreme and unchallengeable authority on every recalcitrant member of the commonwealth; a world parliament whose members shall be elected by the people in their respective countries and whose election shall be 41 confirmed by their respective governments; and a supreme tribunal whose judgment will have a binding effect even in such cases where the parties concerned did not voluntarily agree to submit their case to its consideration." What is the use of a world parliament if the House is supposed to do all legislation for civil laws. There was a time when I was inclined to your own position on this issue until I saw that some of those promoting it were deliberately distorting certain passages of the Writings and leaving out entire sections of other authoritative texts in order to reach this conclusion. I think what first alerted me to the fact that something was wrong was when Juan Cole tried to argue on H-Bahai that the *qanun* in the Will and Testament meant canon law. Anyone with two years of beginning Arabic knows that qanun signifies secular or common law as opposed to religious law. My own understanding of *qanun* is the civil laws which have their origins in religions. I am sure the House will make many civil laws based on Kitab-i-Aqdas and that's why this most Holy Book is called the charter of world civilzation. While there may well be several possible understandings of the proper relationship between religion and state envisioned for eventual World Order of Bahá'u'lláh, anything which claims to represent the Bahá'í Teachings on this matter must take into account the full breadth of authoritative sources and these include letters written on behalf of the Guardian and elucidations made by the Universal House of Justice. Now I would like to ask you a question. Please don't misunderstand me. My intention is not to undermine the station of Guardian or the Master. But I have this question and I hope you can help me to find an answer. Does Abdu'l-Baha or Guardian have prophecy power? Are they prophets? For example, the Lesser Peace happening in 20th century did not come true. Now I hear that Lesser Peace is a process and it started in last century, but I don't think so. For me it's absolutely OK and I don't expect the Center of Covenant to be a fortune-teller. He was the perfect examplar and the perfect Baha'i that we all should strive to be like. Don't you think that some of the Guardian's prophecies about the future and about the future world order might not occur as expected. There is also another concept in Baha'i Writings and that's "Bada". What I am trying to say here we really don't know the nature of the future world government. So better for us not to advocate something that we don't know about. Already many foes are accusing Baha'is of taking over the world government which to my opinion is not true. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: ruhi in ireland
Book 6 gave me a scenario for the subjects which are most important to be brought up in talking to another about the bahai faith (I happen to agree with the importance of the subjects book 6 suggest) and also gave me a manner, a way of speakign and being with a person one wants to tell about the Bahai faith. It also made me think about what teaching is. Dear janine, I remember when I did book 6, I had a problem with one of the editorial comments about one of the quotations. I do not have book 6 right now with me, I try to get a copy of the book and tell you what my problem is and see what you think about it. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi in Thailand
Dear janine, Thanks again for your reply. Talking about Adib Taherzadeh, I would like to comment that I do admire him. I had an opportunity to meet him during my pilgrimage in 1996 and I really did enjoy talking with him and listening to him. In fact I should say that I have met quite a number of counselors who have sacrificed so many things for the Faith and are the essence of love, knowledge, and humility. But I suppose not all counselors are the same. Again I would agree with you in many respects. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi in Thailand
Dear janine, Thanks so much for your feedback. You're right absolutely and I fully agree with you on various points you are discussing here. The problem to my opinion is that majority of Baha'is specially here in Asia are not so deepened in the Writings and many do consider the words of a House member or a counselor or even a ABM as the Words of Baha'u'llah. If a counselor suggests something, everyone take it for granted that what is being suggested should be done. Being also a member of a LSA, I see very similar attitude among the members of LSA. I do hope somehow that all friends become more and more deepened by Ruhi or otherwise. Personally I do not count much on Ruhi. At this time I have just enough time to have a monthly fireside at my home which I do prefer it to a study circle. regards, Firouz Firouz, I am sorry for your experiences. They do not seem to be good. A couple of years ago (2 I think) there was a counsellor from Russia over in Ireland to attend a non-Bahai conference. She told us that in her town the LSA decided to offer the Ruhi book 1 as a personal development course to the wider community (non-Bahais). They adapted the book insuch a way that people could attend only one session if they wanted and asked for feed back each session. This seemed to work well. I have always believed the books can be adapted. Maybe you could have a further talk with your ABM about this? And also, nothing I feel prevents you from setting up your own study circle. I don't think your LSA would forbid you to set up a study circle. Quite often we feel that when an ABM or counsellor says such and such that that is the end ofthe matter. I think though that we can have far more say in things than we think we can. We can ask for a consultation with the ABM/Counsellor (thatis what they are for) but in the end they are individuals. Individuals who are considered to have an insight, wisdom and knowledge of the BAhai writings which makes them worthy to be part of the Branch of the Learned so their words weigh for me heavier than that of another individual, but that does not makethem infallible. I believe in the spirit of cooperation but I do not beleive in shutting up. I think that there is a way of consultation one can apply which is not argumentative, not hostile, but which is open and searching. I never read that counsellors and ABMs are under the same protection and guidance as LSAs, NSAs and the UHJ from Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha. We have the institutions to make the decisions, but what a person says is not binding and does not have to be always inspired. I hope you will find a way to set up your own study circle, (not a ruhi one) or to adapt the ruhi books to such a degree that they become successful in the area where you are. If you set up your own study circle and it is successful, people will notice and questions will be asked. much love, janine van rooij dublin, ireland __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and State
Dear Susan, I am sure you have read the following, but let's once more have a look at them: "For example, the question of Universal Peace, about which His Holiness Bahá'u'lláh says that the Supreme Tribunal must be established: although the League of Nations has been brought into existence, yet it is incapable of establishing Universal Peace. But the Supreme Tribunal which His Holiness Bahá'u'lláh has described will fulfil this sacred task with the utmost might and power. And His plan is this: that the national assemblies of each country and nation -- that is to say parliaments -- should elect two or three persons who are the choicest men of that nation, and are well informed concerning international laws and the relations between governments and aware of the essential needs of the world of humanity in this day. The number of these representatives should be in proportion to the number of inhabitants of that country. The election of these souls who are chosen by the national assembly, that is, the parliament, must be confirmed by the upper house, the congress and the cabinet and also by the president or monarch so these persons may be the elected ones of all the nation and the government. From among these people the members of the Supreme Tribunal will be elected, and all mankind will thus have a share therein, for every one of these delegates is fully representative of his nation. When the Supreme Tribunal gives a ruling on any international question, either unanimously or by majority-rule, there will no longer be any pretext for the plaintiff or ground of objection for the defendant. In case any of the governments or nations, in the execution of the irrefutable decision of the Supreme Tribunal, be negligent or dilatory, the rest of the nations will rise up against it, because all the governments and nations of the world are the supporters of this Supreme Tribunal. Consider what a firm foundation this is! But by a limited and restricted League the purpose will not be realized as it ought and should. This is the truth about the situation, which has been stated." (Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 291) From above I conclude that that the members of this Supreme Tribunal are from among all nations and their qualifications are very different from the election of the House of Justice. Non-Baha'is and women can be members of this world parliment. "Should differences arise, they shall be amicably and conclusively settled by the Supreme Tribunal, that shall include members from all the governments and peoples of the world." (Abdu'l-Baha, The Will and Testament, p. 13) Again above we see that Abdu'l-Baha confirms that the members of this world Tribunal includes all the peoples of the world, men, women, Baha'is and non-Baha'is. "The Supreme Tribunal is an aspect of a world Superstate; the exact nature of its relationship to that state we cannot at present foresee. Supreme Tribunal is the correct translation; it will be a contributing factor in establishing the Lesser Peace. (Shoghi Effendi, Directives from the Guardian, p. 69) To me Guardian is saying that we cannot foresee the exact nature of its relationship with the state. Now what I personally can conclude from all the above and the letter written on behalf of the Guardian is this: World tribunal and Universal House of Justice could merge if and only if all the peoples of the earth become Baha'is and women are allowed to be elected in this merged body. Really speaking I believe that we cannot foresee at this time in history how the future world government operate and its relationship with the UHJ. So I would like to suggest we should not advocate one way or the other. But it seems to me that at present majority of Baha'is do think similar to yours for a future super state and I would like to down play such a concept that I consider is not really healthy for the progress of the Faith. regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and State
Dear Susan, Well, I'm not sure about that. I think it grows partly out of the notion that the Institution of the Guardianship persists even without a living Guardian. Personally I think the Institution of Guardianship supposed to be a temporary institution as Baha'u'llah never stated anything about this institution. "But I think based on my poor understanding that the House will not make laws for civil society" Then how would you translate akham-i madaniyyih and qanun? I do agree with you that many of civil laws have their origins in religions. The House will legislate civil laws based on Kitab-i-Aqdas, i.e. the punishment for murder or arson or whether abortion could be considered murder or not. I do consider such laws as part of ahkam-i-madaniyyih. But I don't think the House will legislate all the Ahkam-i-madaniyyih or a detailed Qanun for various countries. And how would you explain those letters written on the Guardian's behalf which suggest the opposite? And why would the Guardian never have corrected something so vital if it were in error? We are, of course, talking about something *way* down the road in any case. I am not sure why. Maybe Guardian never read this letter. Maybe this was a personal opinion of Guardian not an interpretation of Baha'i Writings. Actually I have seen a few letters on behalf of His secretary which did not make much sense to me. I am not really sure what exactly meant by "written on behalf of Guardian. Did all letter written on His behalf went through the same procedures. Any quality control? I think the only possibility of that happening would be if they were to find conflicts between the written instructions the Guardian gave to his secretaries and what they subsequently wrote. But in the absence of such evidence we sure can't argue along these lines in determining what the Teachings are. We might as well argue that whatever portion of Baha'u'llah's Writings we have difficulties with are are forged! One needs concrete evidence for such assertions, not conjecture. Susan, I mentioned a few quotes from the Writings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha that to my opinion support my case and you showed me a few other quotes that somehow proves what you're saying. But over all I still consider the evidences I have at this time are stronger than yours and hence would like to stick to my opinion on this issue until some new evidences are discovered. I hope in near future Baha'i scholars like yourself will have a chance to read all the original and translated Writings related to this issue and could enlighten all of us. As you said it we are talking about something way down the road. We really at this time in history do not know or can imagine how the civilization would be in a couple of hundred years from now. Maybe it would be totally different from what we both think about the world government of the future. Best regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Ruhi in Thailand
Don't confuse Ruhi with Study Circles per se. Ruhi is just the curriculum which has been adopted in most areas for Study Circles. Yes I do understand that. But since here we do not have any other form of SC we mean Ruhi when we talk about SC. regards, Firouz __ You are subscribed to Baha'i Studies as: mailto:archive@mail-archive.com To unsubscribe, send a blank email to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, use subscribe bahai-st in the message body to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Baha'i Studies is available through the following: Mail - mailto:bahai-st@list.jccc.edu Web - http://list.jccc.edu/read/?forum=bahai-st News - news://list.jccc.edu/bahai-st Public - http://www.escribe.com/religion/bahaist Old Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.net New Public - http://www.mail-archive.com/bahai-st@list.jccc.edu
Re: Religion and State
Dearest Susan, I did not mean at all that you personally were taking any argument from Ruhi SC or any of counselors. I am so sorry, I think I am to be blamed. I was just mixing up my thoughts on two issues. Later I wrote another post on "Ruhi in Thailand". I was trying to reply two things in one email and obviously I caused the confusion. And I am so sorry for it. I do respect your research papers on various topics and your integrity on what you're saying. Peter Smith and I do have great respect for you here in Thailand and we count a lot on what you have to say. I have read many of your papers and in my opinion you are one of the "Learned in Baha". You quoted Dr. Ruhe saying "the Institution of the Universal House of Justice is different from the Universal House of Justice" it does not sound right to me. Universal House of Justice is an institution by itself. What is the institution of an in institution then? And of course I do consider Universal House of Justice as the Authorized Head of Baha'i Faith and they are authorized to make decisions and legislate on various issues. But I think based on my poor understanding that the House will not make laws for civil society and that will be the function of World Tribunal. And my understanding is that they will never merge to become a single institution. At the same time I believe that majority (if not all) of the members of world tribunal will be Baha'is some time in future and they do their best to follow the instructions and advice of Universal House of Justice to the best of their abilities. I don't think this World Tribunal will be ever in conflict with the House. And I do believe the kings and presidents and representative of various governments and the World Tribunal will consult with the House on various issues and seek their advice. Is it possible that a House some time in future come to conclusion that not all letters written on behalf Guardian have passed his authority or some letters do not really reflect what the Guardian had in mind? Personally I think this statement written on behalf of Guardian conflicts with other Baha'i Writings related to the same topic by Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha. regards, Firouz "Generally I believe that various Baha'i Writings should be read about a given subject before making a ruling out of them." Dear Firouz, Well, as Abdu'l-Baha said individuals don't make 'rulings' in such cases, the Universal House of Justice does: "Today this process of deduction is the right of the body of the House of Justice, and the deductions and conclusions of individual learned men have no authority, unless they are endorsed by the House of Justice. The difference is precisely this, that from the conclusions and endorsements of the body of the House of Justice whose members are elected by and known to the worldwide Bahá'í community, no differences will arise; whereas the conclusions of individual divines and scholars would definitely lead to differences, and result in schism, division, and dispersion. The oneness of the Word would be destroyed, the unity of the Faith would disappear, and the edifice of the Faith of God would be shaken." http://bahai-library.com/provisionals/bayt.adl.usul.qadai.au.html You wrote: "Regarding the letters written on behalf of Guardian, I have seen a few letters that make no sense at all Baha'i wise so I cannot count much on them." Well, as Abdu'l-Baha says ultimately jurisprudence is the prerogative of the House of Justice alone and they clearly *do* regard letters written on the Guardian's behalf as authoritative sources, as did the Guardian himself. You wrote: "Regarding individual talks given by various House members or counselors these days, again I don't think we should count much on them. I have seen some Baha'is that consider what a House member or a counselor talks is part of the Holy Writings and I am very afraid of such Baha'is who in order to prove something, they quote a counselor for example." I think you misunderstood what I was doing there. I was not citing these former House members as authorities. On the contrary, I was demonstrating where their opinions differed. But I was also pointing out that Dr. David Ruhe's understanding does resolve some of the problems you raise in reconciling certain passages. My other reason for bringing this up was because I've seen Dr. Ruhe's views completely distorted elsewhere on the internet and I wanted to go on record with this corrective. You wrote: "I recommend Baha'is should read more the Writings of the Central Figures of our Faith and the interpretations of Guardian rather than to stick to explanations given by various counselors or comments in Ruhi books." Well, as I said, nearly all of the Guardian interpretations are con
