Re: BD Brain Teasers
Roger: Sorry to have taken so long to reply to this thread, been busy lurking. The story as I have been told is that the preps were numbered by the powers that were, not Steiner and the numbers have no significance other than identification. In fact they have been numbered in the sequence that Steiner spoke of them in Lectures 4 & 5. Steiner specifically mentioned 502 - 507 as compost preps, The prep numbering started at 500 because up to 499 was allocated to other potions, medicinal ones I think. 508 was mentioned as a tea for rust or similar plant diseases and Steiner suggested they use homeopathic quantities on acreage. 509? would appear to be horn clay to me, as discussed on the list previously Steiner mentioned clay in passing but never went back to explain further. There are a number of other horn remedies used at various times by practitioners that have not been accepted by those who allocate the numbers, if such persons still exist, such as sulphur, copper & basalt. Lastly it is my belief that it shouldn't matter where preps are placed in the compost heap, we are after all, seeking to transfer the energies of the preps to the compost as a whole and as they naturally complement each other why should their position matter? David C - Original Message - From: "Roger Pye" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, 31 January 2003 2:56 PM Subject: BD Brain Teasers > 1. Did Steiner really intend BD502-507 to be used solely in compost > manufacture? > > 2. Did he identify equisetum as BD508 or was it someone else? > > 3. Is there a 'missing' BD509? If so, what might it and its purpose be? > > * > > Someone told me once, or I have read it and forgotten where, that the > preps are not numbered sequentially but that 502-508 actually fall > between 500 and 501. That is, the 'sequence' could be 500, 502, 503, > 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 501. > > The plant growth cycle is divisible into nine stages - mature seed, > cotyledons, buds, leaves, calyx, petals, pistils, fruit, immature seed. > > There are at least twelve major building blocks of life - eg calcium, > magnesium, potassium, sulphur, nitrogen, carbon, hydrogen, phosphorus, > silicon, sodium, chlorine, manganese. > > There are also trace elements and other minerals that life needs - eg > copper, mercury, iron, silver, tin, zinc, lead, aluminium. > > Now if we look at the preps we find that some of these are represented > and the plant stages fit conveniently as well. > > 500 - horn manure - calcium - (balances soil, encourages microbial life) > 502 - yarrow - sulphur - copper - (seed) > 503 - chamomile - oxygen - mercury - (cotyledons) > 504 - nettle - nitrogen - iron - (bud) > 505 - oak bark - carbon - silver - (leaves) > 506 - dandelion - hydrogen - tin - (calyx) > 507 - valerian - phosphorus - lead - (petals) > 508 - equisetum - silica - (pistils, stamen) > (509) - ?? - ?? - (fruit) > 501 - horn silica - light energy - (seed) > > Given the exactitude of scientists it seems unlikely that Steiner > numbered his preparations in the order they 'came off the shelf' but > that he had a reason for assigning the numbers as he did. One attribute > all the preps have in common is energy. Could it be that in some way he > assessed the amount of energy held within each prep, aligned it with the > appropriate stage of plant growth, and numbered it accordingly? > > Back in 1924 the soils of Europe held a natural fertility that isn't > there any more. Germany and Austria had been saddled with a reparations > bill for world war I which was virtually impossible to pay (no prizes > for guessing which country was behind that). Farmers were under pressure > to produce more with less, added to which commodity prices were falling > and would not recover for at least ten years. Hence the use of > artificial fertilisers which were adversely affecting soil fertility. > > Steiner produced his preparations to counter those effects and take the > soil back to its original fertility. How did he do that? Indeed, how did > he know what that 'fertility' state was? > > Let us now enter the realm of fantasy. Let us suppose Steiner had a > device which enabled him to measure the amount of 'standing' energy held > in things and that at some time pre-superphosphate era he had measured > the soil and come up with an amount I shall call X enertrons. In 1924 he > remeasured the soil and it had a reading of X minus 100 enertrons. In > developing the preps, he conceived that: > horn manure would restore the level to X, > seed germination required an additional 200en, > cotyledrons another 300en > buds another 400 > leaves another 500 > calyx another 600
Re: BD Brain Teasers (2)
- Original Message - From: Roger Pye <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 10:45 PM Subject: Re: BD Brain Teasers (2) > Lloyd Charles wrote: > > >This is just a game OK? > > > >>Near the dam are four black plastic 200 litre drums with push-fit lids, > >>all were filled from the dam: > >> > >>No 1 was filled 10 Oct 02 when the dam was full and the water > >>comparatively clear. (Vitality rating (VR) about 1500). > >> > No it isn't a game, Lloyd, sorry. I really am looking for answers here > from the different perspectives demonstrated on this list. > > roger I'm not into competitions but - you have my answers as to what I would expect to find in those barrels right now 1 good clean water (could drink it) 2 weed pepper thats run out of steam and needs re potentising 3 slow brew compost tea thats gone off a bit but still usable and beneficial to the plants (because of the way it was made) 4 'off' water a bit smelly / stale (I'm not gonna drink from this barrel) I have reasons that make sense to me - based on the very limited information you provided - for these answers I have very good reasons for my opinion on the tea barrel that I think James would agree with and Elaine Ingham would not. More later if you like Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: BD Brain Teasers (2)
Lloyd Charles wrote: This is just a game OK? Near the dam are four black plastic 200 litre drums with push-fit lids, all were filled from the dam: No 1 was filled 10 Oct 02 when the dam was full and the water comparatively clear. (Vitality rating (VR) about 1500). No it isn't a game, Lloyd, sorry. I really am looking for answers here from the different perspectives demonstrated on this list. roger
Re: BD Brain Teasers (2)
This is just a game OK? > Near the dam are four black plastic 200 litre drums with push-fit lids, > all were filled from the dam: > > No 1 was filled 10 Oct 02 when the dam was full and the water > comparatively clear. (Vitality rating (VR) about 1500). No 1 good clean water still - Energy rating 27/36 No 2 as a potentised weed pepper its kaput! activity level against the intended weeds 20/180, general water energy rating 50/180 (needs repotentising to work) No 3 stinky tea - if its been left undisturbed there should be a layer of white mold or similar covering the top - the liquid will be a little 'off' slight vinegary smell, with some anaerobic poop in a layer at the bottom (dont disturb that) - but still usable for the plants on the reserve - ER of plants50/180 plants plus tea 70/180 - No 4 This water is tired but ok ER 50/180 Just a game right!! LCharles
BD Brain Teasers (2)
Scenario: A paddock with a roughly circular dam (open water storage) capacity about 30,000 litres of water. Plenty of life in and around this dam (frogs, reeds,birds, assorted vegetation including grass, thistles, mustard weed, mullein, wild sage) which is fed by a nutrient rich underground stream coming in from the west. Rainfall is less than 12 inches a year. There is an outlet on the eastern 'side' at ground level, aside from a little underground seepage it only runs in times of heavy rain. Near the dam are four black plastic 200 litre drums with push-fit lids, all were filled from the dam: No 1 was filled 10 Oct 02 when the dam was full and the water comparatively clear. (Vitality rating (VR) about 1500). Nos 2 and 3 were filled 12 Oct 02 immediately after 7,000 litres had been pumped from the dam. There had been no rain, the underground inlet feed was reduced and evaporation was increasing so the water was 'gluggy' to say the least. VR was then 2000. No 2 was potentised the same day as a weed pepper. A manure/molasses based compost tea was started in No 3 mid-November. The tea was finished by 1 Dec and made ready for spraying out on 10 Dec (but was not used). No 4 was filled 10 Dec immediately after another 7,000 litres had been pumped from the dam. There had still not been any rain, the dam level was down, so this water was very thick indeed (VR 2500). The four drums have been standing in the open in very hot conditions with lids fitted to reduce evaporation. Their contents were last looked at 21 Jan 03. Imagine you did the looking - what would you expect to find in terms of water quality, temperature and VR? (VR equates to lifeforce. For comparison purposes: the VR of rainwater falling on the Snowy Mountains is about 1500; of a reasonably fit person first thing after rising but before breakfast, 850; of a weed (african lovegrass), 500; of a growing vegetable (tomato plant), 1500; of a healthy tree (eucalypt, 20 metres), 60,000 (but this includes a 'contained habitat' loading factor). roger
Re: BD Brain Teasers
how does one contact Joe Stevens?
Re: BD Brain Teasers
- Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 12:40 AM Subject: Re: BD Brain Teasers > BD fish and kelp solutions ?? > me tell me about these. Another way for broadacre farmers to get the influence of the compost preps working over their farms - contact Cheryl Kemp for more info on this Cheryl Kemp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cheers Lloyd Charles>
Re: BD Brain Teasers
In a message dated 1/31/03 8:33:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Hi Steve Do you (or would you) use this same pattern and the main preps too (500,501,508) when you make barrel compost, and BD fish and kelp solutions? Thanks Lloyd Charles >> Yes, all compost and bc, and tea...sstorch
Re: BD Brain Teasers
BD fish and kelp solutions ?? me tell me about these. >Hi Steve >Do you (or would you) use this same pattern and the main >preps too (500,501,508) when you make barrel compost, and BD fish and kelp >solutions? >Thanks >Lloyd Charles > > > Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Demeter Certified Vineyard & Farm http://feast-of-fields.ca EcoVit Aerobic Compost Tea http://compost-tea.ca R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7
Re: BD Brain Teasers
Roger which device do you use to measure engery ? 509 is horn clay, mediator between 500 and 501 >As I said before, this is a fantasy. However, I do have a device which >measures energy and this tells me that BD500 = 100, BD501 = 1000, and >chamomile, nettle and dandelion = 200, 300 and 600 respectively. I can't >measure the others because I don't have any but 5 out of 10 seems pretty >good to me! > >So - what is BD509 and what does it do? > >roger > Laura Sabourin Feast of Fields Inc Demeter Certified Vineyard & Farm http://feast-of-fields.ca EcoVit Aerobic Compost Tea http://compost-tea.ca R R # 1 St Catharines, Ontario L2R 6P7
Re: BD Brain Teasers
If you arrange them in the compost heap energetically: > 500* > *[507]#***503*** > 504* > 505* > **506**502* > 501* > 508* > Hi Steve Do you (or would you) use this same pattern and the main preps too (500,501,508) when you make barrel compost, and BD fish and kelp solutions? Thanks Lloyd Charles
Re: BD Brain Teasers
In a message dated 1/31/03 8:20:51 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Steve - Do you place 500 and 501 in the pile as you would any of the (non-liquid) preps in the pile otherwise? -Allan >> Yes. That diagram represents the way the remedies go in the pile!!! sstorch
Re: BD Brain Teasers
I have been adding the 500 and 501 for over a year and like the results. The 508 adds great fungal activity to the compost. Steve - Do you place 500 and 501 in the pile as you would any of the (non-liquid) preps in the pile otherwise? -Allan
Re: BD Brain Teasers
The bd remedies took up the numbers 500-508 because the medecal remedies ended at 499. If you arrange them in the compost heap energetically: 500* *[507]#***503*** 504* 505* **506**502* 501* 508* # according to the research from Joe Stevens and his careful look at the original German and other notes from Rudy, it really sez to add the valerian when the compost is finished. I have done several batches this way, as reported to bdnow, and have increasingly dramatic results from past experiences. Try it. I have been working with different clay remedies, not horn clay. I feel there is definite need for clay, Hugo Erbe has described a clay remedy with wheat groats and clay in a bovine esophagus. We will be making some at JPI this year. The compost remedies themselves take on a clay like property. Are we not the clay in the bd remedies ourselves??? I prepare all my composts with this arrangement of remdies. Notice how the last digits add up to nine, that i how the preps energetically compliment eachother. I have been adding the 500 and 501 for over a year and like the results. The 508 adds great fungal activity to the compost.
Re: BD Brain Teasers
Gday Roger Lets have a bit of fun with this > 1. Did Steiner really intend BD502-507 to be used solely in compost > manufacture? No > > 2. Did he identify equisetum as BD508 or was it someone else? > Someone Else > 3. Is there a 'missing' BD509? If so, what might it and its purpose be? > Yes Horn Clay > * > I have absolutely no experience or background knowledge to back this up - just a mental picture of Steiner lecturing to those farmers years ago and I dont think the numbers were part of the deal at that stage I reckon they were someone else's invention at a later time. There is no number system used in the Kolisko book , they refer to the various preparations as "dandelion prepared as indicated by Dr Steiner" or similar terminology. I'm a raw newcomer to this but for me the numbers dont fit for the man and what he was doing at the time. I guess there will be a bunch of people come out to prove me wrong - good - I'll stand corrected (and unconvinced) Cheers all Lloyd Charles
Re: BD Brain Teasers
Hi Roger, My fantasy is a little differnt to yours. Perhaps Steiner wasn't the one who gave the numbers, perhaps he just gave the recipies. Steiner was concerned that we had active links with the cosmos, the closer part of which are the seven visible planetry bodies. Perhaps the two preparations matured in cows horns relate to the winter Sun and its digestive activity and the summer Sun and its ripening capacity. Perhaps these two were given as a duality. Then we might have Moon / oakbark in skull in water / condencing calcium into carbon 505 Venus / Yarrow florets in a stags bladder / condencing the airy senitive into the watery element of the bladder and urine. potasium, cu. sulfer. Mercury / Chamomile that grows as a weed in anaerobic places and whose flowers bring health to an unsettled digestive tract, oxygen, growth and expansion. Is able to quell smells in anaerobic rotting processes. Cacium and sulfer as a catalyst. Mars / where light penetrates into plant tissue bringing a finenes and delicacy to plant growth. Magnesium plus nitrogen iron calcium etc. Jupiter the dandelion flower is tenuously attached by a delicate hollow tube, almost not of this world. Wrapped in a messentry which is the message centre of the body. The sola plexus divides the upper from the lower Is a messanger from the cosmic world to the plant world as well as from the plant world to the cosmic.One might describe it as a cosmic breathing. To help the plants find what they need. Tin, zinc and hydrogen. Saturn. the lord of warmth and cool. The boundary of the visible planets so intended to form a boundary or skin to a compost or manure heap. To be an individual one needs a boundary or a skin. Lead, phosphorus. You ask the question as to what might correspond to the fruit; what about clay? I present this as another view and I'm sure others have their veiws that are different than these two. Well thats my brain gym for today!! Best wishes, Peter. - Original Message - From: "Roger Pye" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, January 31, 2003 4:56 PM Subject: BD Brain Teasers > 1. Did Steiner really intend BD502-507 to be used solely in compost > manufacture? > > 2. Did he identify equisetum as BD508 or was it someone else? > > 3. Is there a 'missing' BD509? If so, what might it and its purpose be? > > * > > Someone told me once, or I have read it and forgotten where, that the > preps are not numbered sequentially but that 502-508 actually fall > between 500 and 501. That is, the 'sequence' could be 500, 502, 503, > 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 501. > > The plant growth cycle is divisible into nine stages - mature seed, > cotyledons, buds, leaves, calyx, petals, pistils, fruit, immature seed. > > There are at least twelve major building blocks of life - eg calcium, > magnesium, potassium, sulphur, nitrogen, carbon, hydrogen, phosphorus, > silicon, sodium, chlorine, manganese. > > There are also trace elements and other minerals that life needs - eg > copper, mercury, iron, silver, tin, zinc, lead, aluminium. > > Now if we look at the preps we find that some of these are represented > and the plant stages fit conveniently as well. > > 500 - horn manure - calcium - (balances soil, encourages microbial life) > 502 - yarrow - sulphur - copper - (seed) > 503 - chamomile - oxygen - mercury - (cotyledons) > 504 - nettle - nitrogen - iron - (bud) > 505 - oak bark - carbon - silver - (leaves) > 506 - dandelion - hydrogen - tin - (calyx) > 507 - valerian - phosphorus - lead - (petals) > 508 - equisetum - silica - (pistils, stamen) > (509) - ?? - ?? - (fruit) > 501 - horn silica - light energy - (seed) > > Given the exactitude of scientists it seems unlikely that Steiner > numbered his preparations in the order they 'came off the shelf' but > that he had a reason for assigning the numbers as he did. One attribute > all the preps have in common is energy. Could it be that in some way he > assessed the amount of energy held within each prep, aligned it with the > appropriate stage of plant growth, and numbered it accordingly? > > Back in 1924 the soils of Europe held a natural fertility that isn't > there any more. Germany and Austria had been saddled with a reparations > bill for world war I which was virtually impossible to pay (no prizes > for guessing which country was behind that). Farmers were under pressure > to produce more with less, added to which commodity prices were falling > and would not recover for at least ten years. Hence the use of > artificial fertilisers which were adversely affecting soil fertility. > > Steiner produced his preparations to counter those effects and take the > soil back to its original fert
BD Brain Teasers
1. Did Steiner really intend BD502-507 to be used solely in compost manufacture? 2. Did he identify equisetum as BD508 or was it someone else? 3. Is there a 'missing' BD509? If so, what might it and its purpose be? * Someone told me once, or I have read it and forgotten where, that the preps are not numbered sequentially but that 502-508 actually fall between 500 and 501. That is, the 'sequence' could be 500, 502, 503, 504, 505, 506, 507, 508, 501. The plant growth cycle is divisible into nine stages - mature seed, cotyledons, buds, leaves, calyx, petals, pistils, fruit, immature seed. There are at least twelve major building blocks of life - eg calcium, magnesium, potassium, sulphur, nitrogen, carbon, hydrogen, phosphorus, silicon, sodium, chlorine, manganese. There are also trace elements and other minerals that life needs - eg copper, mercury, iron, silver, tin, zinc, lead, aluminium. Now if we look at the preps we find that some of these are represented and the plant stages fit conveniently as well. 500 - horn manure - calcium - (balances soil, encourages microbial life) 502 - yarrow - sulphur - copper - (seed) 503 - chamomile - oxygen - mercury - (cotyledons) 504 - nettle - nitrogen - iron - (bud) 505 - oak bark - carbon - silver - (leaves) 506 - dandelion - hydrogen - tin - (calyx) 507 - valerian - phosphorus - lead - (petals) 508 - equisetum - silica - (pistils, stamen) (509) - ?? - ?? - (fruit) 501 - horn silica - light energy - (seed) Given the exactitude of scientists it seems unlikely that Steiner numbered his preparations in the order they 'came off the shelf' but that he had a reason for assigning the numbers as he did. One attribute all the preps have in common is energy. Could it be that in some way he assessed the amount of energy held within each prep, aligned it with the appropriate stage of plant growth, and numbered it accordingly? Back in 1924 the soils of Europe held a natural fertility that isn't there any more. Germany and Austria had been saddled with a reparations bill for world war I which was virtually impossible to pay (no prizes for guessing which country was behind that). Farmers were under pressure to produce more with less, added to which commodity prices were falling and would not recover for at least ten years. Hence the use of artificial fertilisers which were adversely affecting soil fertility. Steiner produced his preparations to counter those effects and take the soil back to its original fertility. How did he do that? Indeed, how did he know what that 'fertility' state was? Let us now enter the realm of fantasy. Let us suppose Steiner had a device which enabled him to measure the amount of 'standing' energy held in things and that at some time pre-superphosphate era he had measured the soil and come up with an amount I shall call X enertrons. In 1924 he remeasured the soil and it had a reading of X minus 100 enertrons. In developing the preps, he conceived that: horn manure would restore the level to X, seed germination required an additional 200en, cotyledrons another 300en buds another 400 leaves another 500 calyx another 600 petals another 700 pistils another 800 fruit another 900 mature seed another 1000 His insights and experience led him to the development of matching preps and initially he numbered them to suit: 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, 900, 1000. However he already had 499 homeopathic remedies. So he kept the capital figures, prefixed them with '50' and knocked off the remaining zeros, giving him 501, 502 . . . 509, 501. As he could not have two 501s, and did not have a 500 either, he took a further step and changed the first 501 to 500. As I said before, this is a fantasy. However, I do have a device which measures energy and this tells me that BD500 = 100, BD501 = 1000, and chamomile, nettle and dandelion = 200, 300 and 600 respectively. I can't measure the others because I don't have any but 5 out of 10 seems pretty good to me! So - what is BD509 and what does it do? roger
