Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
is proprietary information, much the same as your bird scare product. sounds like the spirit of Greg Willis lives on.sstorch Steve This raises a few very interesting questions. Is it OK for BD farmers to be entrepeneurial, yet not its researchers. And why would this be Given there is no financial support for BD research from either official or NGO bodies or the BD farming community, then the only way it can be funded is thru good old capitialistic means. Develop a product and sell it to fund further research. If you can! Why should we, who have dedicated our lives to extending BD method and understandings be seen as 2nd class citizens because we wish to a) survive b) continue on with our development of your art. Surely the health of a community is imaged in how it treats ALL its parts. Glen ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
In a message dated 6/16/03 8:51:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In my experience the energy of a place can be changed in a number of ways, sometimes simply, sometimes esoterically. Simplistically, I suppose I could say that whenever a plant is put in the ground it has the potential to change the energy, or change the manner in which inherent energy works, one way or another. For now I'll keep it simple. A few days ago I referred to the double spiral (vortex) in your 'Spiral Astrology' on your website. Think about that image for a moment. Walk anywhere there are trees and I guarantee you will find one or more that have twisted bark or branches that splay out in an unnatural circular manner. I'm sure you know the sort of thing I mean. Usually the cause is a pure energy vortex (in many cases a double vortex) which has positive polarity. That means the energy swirls clockwise and goes down into the ground. The energy itself is cooled and is being 'pulled' into the vortex from distances that depend on its size, and in the process that twists trees and shrubs (harming or killing them over long periods of time) and anything else which happens to be in the way, and is generally harmful for the soil making things harder to grow. I was under the impresson that the twisting had to do with the trees orientation to its etheric body or the group soul of the tree. That is interesting that you are saying it is an energy vortex. I'll have to give this some thought...sstorch ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was under the impresson that the twisting had to do with the trees orientation to its etheric body or the group soul of the tree. That is interesting that you are saying it is an energy vortex. I'll have to give this some thought...sstorch Walk past one with a dowsing rod - or with a diviner and a dowsing rod - and see what it tells you. roger ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: BD Research was Can error be turned to advantage?
Hi Liz, The peppering experiment you are mentioning is very similar to what a group of us in N.Z. would like to follow through on, Your brush tailed possum is rather too fond of our bush and needs to be controlled. The cages need to be on the ground and the ground is much more receptive to the pepper material if it is moist enough to support seed germination. If you are working with ash stired into sand or a homoeopathic dilution the energy of the pepper needs to be taken into the soil to radiate back out again. I have found rabbits here to consistently move six weeks after application of the preparation, and it takes either two or three applications over a number of years to get the message across to them to stay away long term. At Gary and Jan Blake's place a patch that the rabbits loved and was easily viewed from the dineing table was peppered and a daily watch was maintained from the table at breakfast time. Behavioural changes were noted in any that strayed into the treated zone. They felt uneasy and on edge and didn't stay for long. Go for it it would be valuable research. Best wishes, Peter. Secondly the peppering, from the little I know the reproductive system should be affected. Now I know that lab. research is not the real thing, but could this not be tested in a controlled environment experiment. If I was to house pairs of rabbits separately, and treat some with a pepper. This sort of experiment could show physical changes, behaviour changes or drop of reproductive rate numbers? Is it worth observing to that degree and further regarding planet influences? It's an area I'd like to work in and wonder if this is where I could put scientific research of BD into action? Or would I be better off pursuing the preps??? I have the honour of having a wise and well published scientist at the uni, who is willing to guide me in whatever I pursue. He says with all that he's done the greatest of these is teaching Ecological Agriculture. Feel as though this is a chance for some sort of research and my heart/head/hands are with BD. Have to admit I'm a bit ahead of myself, but my marks are being maintained for an honours research year, so would like to consider some options. All feedback welcome, thanks. ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: BD Research was Can error be turned to advantage?
Thanks Peter, I appreciate your experience and words of support. I've read a few articles on the peppering work on brush tailed possums in NZ, and it always intrigues me. Will be in touch for any words of wisdom you may be willing to pass on. Thanks again LL Liz on 18/6/03 8:57 PM, Peter Michael Bacchus at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Liz, The peppering experiment you are mentioning is very similar to what a group of us in N.Z. would like to follow through on, Your brush tailed possum is rather too fond of our bush and needs to be controlled. The cages need to be on the ground and the ground is much more receptive to the pepper material if it is moist enough to support seed germination. If you are working with ash stired into sand or a homoeopathic dilution the energy of the pepper needs to be taken into the soil to radiate back out again. I have found rabbits here to consistently move six weeks after application of the preparation, and it takes either two or three applications over a number of years to get the message across to them to stay away long term. At Gary and Jan Blake's place a patch that the rabbits loved and was easily viewed from the dineing table was peppered and a daily watch was maintained from the table at breakfast time. Behavioural changes were noted in any that strayed into the treated zone. They felt uneasy and on edge and didn't stay for long. Go for it it would be valuable research. Best wishes, Peter. Secondly the peppering, from the little I know the reproductive system should be affected. Now I know that lab. research is not the real thing, but could this not be tested in a controlled environment experiment. If I was to house pairs of rabbits separately, and treat some with a pepper. This sort of experiment could show physical changes, behaviour changes or drop of reproductive rate numbers? Is it worth observing to that degree and further regarding planet influences? It's an area I'd like to work in and wonder if this is where I could put scientific research of BD into action? Or would I be better off pursuing the preps??? I have the honour of having a wise and well published scientist at the uni, who is willing to guide me in whatever I pursue. He says with all that he's done the greatest of these is teaching Ecological Agriculture. Feel as though this is a chance for some sort of research and my heart/head/hands are with BD. Have to admit I'm a bit ahead of myself, but my marks are being maintained for an honours research year, so would like to consider some options. All feedback welcome, thanks. ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
Dear Gil, The pepper is made from a secret formula consisting of a rabbit burnt out of conventional burning time and a Bruce Copen rate. It works very well. James Gil Robertson wrote: Hi! Roger, Re: the rabbit bit. Have you made a Rae Card or a pepper for the beastie? I have tried all the Rates used in the UK, but with no joy in Oz. The rabbit looks to be the same, but I have not managed to send them to the neighbors. Gil Roger Pye wrote: The council regard it as being the worst for rabbits and serrated tussock in the shire. ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
Hi Gil, Not much point taking on the easy jobs. If we can get some success in rabbit control, heaven only knows what we can do. Regards James Hedley Hi! Roger, Re: the rabbit bit. Have you made a Rae Card or a pepper for the beastie? I have tried all the Rates used in the UK, but with no joy in Oz. The rabbit looks to be the same, but I have not managed to send them to the neighbors. Gil Roger Pye wrote: The council regard it as being the worst for rabbits and serrated tussock in the shire. ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
Dear Glen, The how of what Roger and I propose to do with the rabbits at Dalgetty is proprietary information, much the same as your bird scare product. Regards James Hedley Rodger How are you changing the energy of the farm to cut down bredding rates? Is this being achieve without peppering Glen A ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
Dear Lloyd, I agree that there is an energy factor operating at Dalgetty. This energy factor is not just unique to Dalgetty, it is common to all poor country. Unfortunately Roger and I cant let the cat out of the bag yet. One of two things can happen, the work is worthy of a Nobel Prize, or we don't really know enough about what we are doing yet. I know that the concepts which we are working with at Dalgetty have worked elsewhere on small scale trials. However there is a long way to go yet. Regards James Hedley Roger wrote Notwithstanding Lloyd's positive remarks about the Dalgety area, the extended results of lack of rain, overgrazing and invasive weed are very evident in reducing soil quality and growth patterns - and this land is marginal to begin with. It was more a general comment on the area, I'd agree that Dalgety is pretty marginal, its fairly low rainfall and the soils are ordinary. The Monaro used to be lightly stocked but hard times and bad advice from government experts in the 70's led to farmers trying to run numbers that the country was not capable of supporting long term. I remember a farmer from that area (Dalgety side of town) going through court for failure to control rabbits in 1969 or 70, politely told the beak that with a wife and kids to support he was catching 200 pair a night and had no intention of eliminating his only useful source of income until wool prices improved. I dont know what it was but in a short time up there I met a lot of good people - they seemed to have a depth of character - maybe tough times do that ? But I think there is an energy factor in that whole area that you dont see in other places. Cheers Lloyd Charles ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
Hi Roger, Seems as if we have a good discussion going among the Wizards of the Land of Oz. Surely there must be some 0f our American subscribers who have experience in this subject that they can bring to bear on the subject of changing polarities in soils to affect changes. It certainly is a fascinating subject soil polarities and geopathic stress areas. James Garuda wrote: How are you changing the energy of the farm to cut down bredding rates? Is this being achieve without peppering Yes. In terms of mammals I have an innate dislike of peppering for several reasons, not least of which is that it does nothing about the actual problem, just moves it on to someone else's shoulders. In my experience the energy of a place can be changed in a number of ways, sometimes simply, sometimes esoterically. Simplistically, I suppose I could say that whenever a plant is put in the ground it has the potential to change the energy, or change the manner in which inherent energy works, one way or another. For now I'll keep it simple. A few days ago I referred to the double spiral (vortex) in your 'Spiral Astrology' on your website. Think about that image for a moment. Walk anywhere there are trees and I guarantee you will find one or more that have twisted bark or branches that splay out in an unnatural circular manner. I'm sure you know the sort of thing I mean. Usually the cause is a pure energy vortex (in many cases a double vortex) which has positive polarity. That means the energy swirls clockwise and goes down into the ground. The energy itself is cooled and is being 'pulled' into the vortex from distances that depend on its size, and in the process that twists trees and shrubs (harming or killing them over long periods of time) and anything else which happens to be in the way, and is generally harmful for the soil making things harder to grow. There are also negative polarity vortexes (vortices) which do the opposite - that is, they swirl counterclockwise bringing warm air up from an underground source (often an underground stream or lake). Vortexes (vortices) can be reversed but not everyone can do it. Micro-climates can be created in hostile climatic conditions using negative vortexes. If you look on the soil as a living organism (which it is) with a capacity to determine its own needs and work on fulfilling them (which it does) then it becomes fairly evident that rabbits and other 'pests' including weeds are 'grown' for a purpose. (However, it takes a huge attitudinal shift to accept that soils can 'think' for themselves.) The problem, then, is not the creature or plant itself but over-population and that is all we should be seeking to control.. We can do that with a mix of energy changes and spiritual guidance. I appreciate the difficulty or impossibility of developing a product which incorporates such things but in fact we already have the means - about 5% of the population have the necessary ability. One need not be on-the-spot either, it can be done from a distance. Roger ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
To tell you the truth, James, I think we're way ahead of the ball game - but perhaps they're searching feverishly through USDA regs to see if the human and/or spiritual control of natural energy flows is allowable in the modern agricultural context :) I'll be in Dalgety later this week by the way. Roger James Hedley wrote: Hi Roger, Seems as if we have a good discussion going among the Wizards of the Land of Oz. Surely there must be some 0f our American subscribers who have experience in this subject that they can bring to bear on the subject of changing polarities in soils to affect changes. It certainly is a fascinating subject soil polarities and geopathic stress areas. James Garuda wrote: How are you changing the energy of the farm to cut down bredding rates? Is this being achieve without peppering Yes. In terms of mammals I have an innate dislike of peppering for several reasons, not least of which is that it does nothing about the actual problem, just moves it on to someone else's shoulders. ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
Your palaver today really interests me. You're right, Roger, I couldn't and wouldn't forward your messages today to the Weed Supervisor or the University of Idaho researchers. They're not ready for it. You're absolutely right in just doing it. I am hosting a Biological Control for Knapweed Workshop on our road this Friday where the U. of ID researchers are going to deploy a weevil that eats knapweed seeds. This is the latest thing in weed control here. We have lots of knapweed on our right-of-way. It's been a rainy spring and seeds have germinated. We sprayed the D-8 peppers for knapweed and tansy. It is affecting the knapweed and tansy population, but the powers that be will not see this and I'm not planning to tell them. They will only get a report on the things they understand. You are way ahead of us. We've only been sprayed with 2,4-D, etc. (Curtail and Escort) once in 1999, but the hormone is still in the ground. Seeds that germinate in the sprayed area are unnaturally larger than the same plants up our private right-of-way. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy that the species they have declared noxious will continue so they can continue to spray every three years. Changing the soil properties either by material or energetic means is the way and it's going to take time to figure it all out. Somehow, I hope the powers here have faith in me and will allow us to continue to experiment with non-chemical methods. I spoke at a Weed Awareness Day program about our volunteer research here which is just scratching the surface. The evaluation sheets they got asked for more organic information next year. Little by little. I don't think the governmental groups will be able to do it financially in their present paradigm. My feeling is that it's got to be grassroots people demanding natural approaches to agricultural problems and doing it themselves. I think the ideas are spreading on that level. I would very much like to learn your proprietary protocol...someday. Hopefully, Merla Roger Pye wrote: To tell you the truth, James, I think we're way ahead of the ball game - but perhaps they're searching feverishly through USDA regs to see if the human and/or spiritual control of natural energy flows is allowable in the modern agricultural context :) I'll be in Dalgety later this week by the way. Roger James Hedley wrote: Hi Roger, Seems as if we have a good discussion going among the Wizards of the Land of Oz. Surely there must be some 0f our American subscribers who have experience in this subject that they can bring to bear on the subject of changing polarities in soils to affect changes. It certainly is a fascinating subject soil polarities and geopathic stress areas. James Garuda wrote: How are you changing the energy of the farm to cut down bredding rates? Is this being achieve without peppering Yes. In terms of mammals I have an innate dislike of peppering for several reasons, not least of which is that it does nothing about the actual problem, just moves it on to someone else's shoulders. ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: BD Research was Can error be turned to advantage?
Hi Roger, James, Lloyd et al You wizards always get me thinking. Firstly the energy of the Manaro plains, do you think the energy is caused from what Lloyd said about overgrazing? I've driven through that country several times and it is very depleted, a draining energy and often barren, yet that is not how it was. I had the pleasure of driving through there with a ranger, whose family had been in the area for 5 generations. How he described the changes were mostly due to grazing. What's the compaction like anyone know? Secondly the peppering, from the little I know the reproductive system should be affected. Now I know that lab. research is not the real thing, but could this not be tested in a controlled environment experiment. If I was to house pairs of rabbits separately, and treat some with a pepper. This sort of experiment could show physical changes, behaviour changes or drop of reproductive rate numbers? Is it worth observing to that degree and further regarding planet influences? It's an area I'd like to work in and wonder if this is where I could put scientific research of BD into action? Or would I be better off pursuing the preps??? I have the honour of having a wise and well published scientist at the uni, who is willing to guide me in whatever I pursue. He says with all that he's done the greatest of these is teaching Ecological Agriculture. Feel as though this is a chance for some sort of research and my heart/head/hands are with BD. Have to admit I'm a bit ahead of myself, but my marks are being maintained for an honours research year, so would like to consider some options. All feedback welcome, thanks. Markess any words of wisdom? LL Liz on 17/6/03 6:42 PM, James Hedley at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Lloyd, I agree that there is an energy factor operating at Dalgetty. This energy factor is not just unique to Dalgetty, it is common to all poor country. Unfortunately Roger and I cant let the cat out of the bag yet. One of two things can happen, the work is worthy of a Nobel Prize, or we don't really know enough about what we are doing yet. I know that the concepts which we are working with at Dalgetty have worked elsewhere on small scale trials. However there is a long way to go yet. Regards James Hedley Roger wrote Notwithstanding Lloyd's positive remarks about the Dalgety area, the extended results of lack of rain, overgrazing and invasive weed are very evident in reducing soil quality and growth patterns - and this land is marginal to begin with. It was more a general comment on the area, I'd agree that Dalgety is pretty marginal, its fairly low rainfall and the soils are ordinary. The Monaro used to be lightly stocked but hard times and bad advice from government experts in the 70's led to farmers trying to run numbers that the country was not capable of supporting long term. I remember a farmer from that area (Dalgety side of town) going through court for failure to control rabbits in 1969 or 70, politely told the beak that with a wife and kids to support he was catching 200 pair a night and had no intention of eliminating his only useful source of income until wool prices improved. I dont know what it was but in a short time up there I met a lot of good people - they seemed to have a depth of character - maybe tough times do that ? But I think there is an energy factor in that whole area that you dont see in other places. Cheers Lloyd Charles ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
Garuda wrote: How are you changing the energy of the farm to cut down bredding rates? Is this being achieve without peppering Yes. In terms of mammals I have an innate dislike of peppering for several reasons, not least of which is that it does nothing about the actual problem, just moves it on to someone else's shoulders. In my experience the energy of a place can be changed in a number of ways, sometimes simply, sometimes esoterically. Simplistically, I suppose I could say that whenever a plant is put in the ground it has the potential to change the energy, or change the manner in which inherent energy works, one way or another. For now I'll keep it simple. A few days ago I referred to the double spiral (vortex) in your 'Spiral Astrology' on your website. Think about that image for a moment. Walk anywhere there are trees and I guarantee you will find one or more that have twisted bark or branches that splay out in an unnatural circular manner. I'm sure you know the sort of thing I mean. Usually the cause is a pure energy vortex (in many cases a double vortex) which has positive polarity. That means the energy swirls clockwise and goes down into the ground. The energy itself is cooled and is being 'pulled' into the vortex from distances that depend on its size, and in the process that twists trees and shrubs (harming or killing them over long periods of time) and anything else which happens to be in the way, and is generally harmful for the soil making things harder to grow. There are also negative polarity vortexes (vortices) which do the opposite - that is, they swirl counterclockwise bringing warm air up from an underground source (often an underground stream or lake). Vortexes (vortices) can be reversed but not everyone can do it. Micro-climates can be created in hostile climatic conditions using negative vortexes. If you look on the soil as a living organism (which it is) with a capacity to determine its own needs and work on fulfilling them (which it does) then it becomes fairly evident that rabbits and other 'pests' including weeds are 'grown' for a purpose. (However, it takes a huge attitudinal shift to accept that soils can 'think' for themselves.) The problem, then, is not the creature or plant itself but over-population and that is all we should be seeking to control.. We can do that with a mix of energy changes and spiritual guidance. I appreciate the difficulty or impossibility of developing a product which incorporates such things but in fact we already have the means - about 5% of the population have the necessary ability. One need not be on-the-spot either, it can be done from a distance. Roger ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
Hi Roger Yes. In terms of mammals I have an innate dislike of peppering for several reasons, not least of which is that it does nothing about the actual problem, just moves it on to someone else's shoulders. There's a multitude of ways to skin the cat of course but I think that your argument against peppering is a little simplistic here. It asssumes that the critters will just breed on regardless of the changed conditions, and while it often looks that way, thats not what happens in nature. When Rudolph Steiner wrote of peppering there was quite a lot of emphasis on the effect on the reproductive ability of the target. OK, when we get an instant result we are probably just scrambling them up so they go somewhere else and initially there may be an increase in pressure at somewhere else , but after moving house I dont think those new critters will become a part of the effective breeding population for quite a while, if ever!. I believe over time the overall population will reduce because of peppering and the only way that the neighbor will be affected long term is if he already had favourable conditions in place for an increase of population - which case it was going to happen anyway. Nothing wrong with your method of course, but the other 95% of us need to figure out something that will work for us. Anyway how different are we? Its all about the energy! I can't do it on my own but with the aid of a field broadcaster anyone can implement beneficial changes to the energies of their farm. Cheers Lloyd Charles ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
Dear Lloyd, Even although it appears from the purist philosophical base of dyed in the wool BD farmers, that there has been a catastrophy from the use of Superphosphate in the comparative trials of the TSR at Dalgetty I feel that what has happened opens the scope of the trials. It must be remembered that this is a long term trial. It is not just what happens in the first year. There is ample documentation (I hope) and photographsof the area at different stages. There is also abuot 50 soil samples from different areas of the block which were taken at the commencement of the trial What is important, in the light of the problems in the EUof using animal sheaves, is that the radionic preps have performed equal to if not better than the conventionallly sprayed and stirred BD preps. During a visit to the trial just prior to the pasture sowing it was commented by Project Coordinator that she observed noticeable differences between the different trials. It was quite obvious that the BD had outperformed the other trials and that there was a marked difference between conventional v BD. My opinion is that Superphosphate or rock phosphate would be beneficial to the land. When the protocols for the trial were being discussed I mentioned that it would be interesting to have a small test strip to test the effects of different additions such as Phosphorus, Zinc or/and Copper. This will probably be done in the second year. A further 550 acre trial is being conducted at Dalgetty on a property which is generally considered to be the worst on the Monaro. other trials that are programmed for this summer are: Aerial spraying of 25000 litres of radionically potentised pig pepper in the New England grazing country: and Aerial spraying of radionically prepared St Johns Wort pepper to further test the use of weed peppers. This will be sprayed in strips so we should be able to observe what happens. Weed peppers lend themselves to broadacre spraying because they are species specific and non toxic to stock. We certainly live in interesting times in Australia these days. James Hedley Lloyd Charles wrote: Hi Roger Boy is this feller a goose ! You have three paddocks ? The BD area is 20 hectares , compost 10 ha and conventional 10 ha - so he "inadvertantly" applies not only twice the amount to twice the area , he puts it on the wrong patch as well - hope nobody paid him for the days work! Yeah! I know you said sane and constructive but these accidents just seem to keep happening. Sane and Constructive According to what he wrote in his lectures Alex Podolinsky was quite prepared to allow small dressings of single superphosphate to kick start run down soils going into BD, only on a one off basis, He said we might need to provide a soluble feed for the first season (my wording) then rock phosphate would take over as the microbial life got into gear, P A Yeomans - probably Australias greatest soil man - also used small quantities of super and lime in similar fashion once only to get things going, this guy turned some horrid shale and slate country into wonderful pasture. OK these guys were using less than you have had spread but there's no choice about that. Along with the cadmium, lead, and mercury, you do get some nice sulphur and a little available calcium coming in with the phosphorus, all of which would probably show low on a soil test there?. Hopefully you have plenty of photos and a written report on the status of the plots up until the accident? some points 1. make sure that the conventional treatment definitely got at least an equivalent dose of super so that the comparison is still valid between BD and it 2 . Ban the perpetrator from the site before he causes any more havoc. 3. try to do some soil and tissue tests to show the difference in availability of nutrients between the two systems - you might be pleasantly surprised. 4. If Glyphosphate is used on the conventional area try to leave a small untreated test, and compare microbial indicators, tendency to crust, extra drying of the soil surface. And if there is a reasonable amount of green material sprayed and incorporated at seeding look very closely for reduced germination and emergence where the greenery was thickest I guarantee you will be unpleasantly surprised on all counts (or some of the farmers will be anyway). Cant think of anything else at the moment - its a shame and potentially a waste of money and time but no going back so you may as well get something from it. Cheers Lloyd Charles 1 ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can error be turned to advantage?
Hi James Thanks for your note. Even although it appears ---that there has been a catastrophy from the use of Superphosphate in the comparative trials of the TSR at Dalgetty I feel that what has happened opens the scope of the trials. It must be remembered that this is a long term trial. It is not just what happens in the first year. It has altered the rules part way through though and you now dont have a non supered area so a dressing of super has become part of the base treatment. Not a problem but a minor glitch. The real problem is in the carelessness of the person who made the mistake andjepoardised the whole thing. There is ample documentation (I hope) and photographsof the area at different stages. I was sure Roger would have this under control There is also abuot 50 soil samples from different areas of the block which were taken at the commencement of the trialWhat is important, in the light of the problems in the EUof using animal sheaves, is that the radionic preps have performed equal to if not better than the conventionallly sprayed and stirred BD preps. You know how I enjoy it when people write things like that last sentence! During a visit to the trial just prior to the pasture sowing it was commented by Project Coordinator that she observed noticeable differences between the different trials. It was quite obvious that the BD had outperformed the other trials and that there was a marked difference between conventional v BD. I think it would be a good idea to get a written report from the co ordinator stating that up until the accident. My opinion is that Superphosphate or rock phosphate would be beneficial to the land. Mine too! that granite country also seriously needs lime. They have been usingmolybdenum fortified super for generations to try and counter the lack of calcium and the trace element imbalances that come with it. Biggest problem with super phosphate is the lock up factor and the lack of cultivation - you end up with all the root system concentrated in the top couple of inches When the protocols for the trial were being discussed I mentioned that it would be interesting to have a small test strip to test the effects of different additions such as Phosphorus, Zinc or/and Copper. This will probably be done in the second year.A further 550 acre trial is being conducted at Dalgetty on a property which is generally considered to be the worst on the Monaro. You know that Monaro country isnt half as bad as you blokes think,when I lived up there the Dalgety shire claimed the highest wool cut per acre in NSW and had the figures to proove it. For twenty years the monaro sheep men flogged the socks off all comers in merino whether trialsall over the state,only lost out when high fine wool prices put them out of it. They are still the best medium and strong wool sheep in this country. Best weaner cattle in the country too! Weed peppers lend themselves to broadacre spraying because they are species specific and non toxic to stock. You'd hope that people will be a little forgiving when results are sometimes not up to their expectations - there are many turning to peppering as a last resort after chemicals have failed - its a big ask in some cases. We certainly live in interesting times in Australia these days. Sure do! Cheers Lloyd Charles ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can Error be turned to Advantage?
Hi Roger, Maybe a bit of lime, perhaps twice as much as the super added. One would need to consider what effect this would have in relation to other plots in the comparison and what the target designation of the land is to be at the conclusion of the trial. either way the experience needs to be capitalised on. Did / will the application have a short term detrimental effect on some paremeters or was there an improvement? Regards, Peter. - Original Message - From: Roger Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 1:26 PM Subject: Can Error be turned to Advantage? A SE NSW project to compare three methods of revegetation of degraded landscape, namely Biodynamic, Compost Assisted, and Conventional, was recently compromised by the inadvertent application of superphosphate to the biodynamic portion. The project commenced in Nov 2001. Immediately prior to the application, the status of the trial was as follows: Biodynamic Paddock, approx 20 hectares. Nineteen hectares of this has received seven sprays of BD500 at BACA recommended rates and three of 501 ditto, the preps being supplied by the association and mixed using John Wilkes-style flowforms. The remaining hectare was included in the first of the above sprays (back-to-back 500/501) and then hand-sprayed with radionically prepared 500 501 at the same times as the others. In addition, the full paddock received three sprays of liquid soil conditioner (compost tea) prepared on site and applied at 100L per hectare between August and December last year. All of these formulations were completely natural, none contained or were assisted by chemicals. The latest site report (24 May 03) by the consultants (leaders in their field in the SE region) stated in part There is a marked improvement in the fertility present as compared to the conventional section over the time of the trial. The soils are slightly softer and better able to absorb water compared to the conventional site and as it all was at the beginning. Compost Assisted Paddock, approx 10 hectares. This has had one application of 30 tonnes of commercially produced compost applied in June last year and three sprays of the same liquid conditioner as above. Conventional Paddock, approx 10 hectares. This has had three sprays of the same liquid conditioner as above, mainly to keep it viable until seeding time. The plan called for weedicide to be applied before seeding (if required) and the application of superphosphate to encourage and facilitate growth. It is pointless crying over spilt milk. It is equally pointless to expend $A16K on a trial and then just walk away from it with nothing to show for the exercise. Accordingly, Project Management has recommended the occurrence be treated as an 'act of God' and incorporated into the plan, so that from now on the trial will be comparing the effect of Biodynamic substances plus a minimal amount of super with Compost Assisted and Conventional. This will give a four-way comparison at the scheduled end of the trial instead of three-way. The probability is that some farmers would decide to add super in any case to 'kick' any improvement along and this extended comparison could therefore be of considerable benefit one way or another. The purpose of this email is to invite sane and constructive comments on how BDNOW! members would handle the above scenario if placed in the same position as Project Management. Cheers Roger Natural Earth Healing Circle (Link 1, NSW) Ph / Fax: +61 2 6255 3824 Mob: +61 410 469 541 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://earth-careonline.com ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Can error be turned to advantage?
Hi Roger Boy is this feller a goose ! You have three paddocks ? The BD area is 20 hectares , compost 10 ha and conventional 10 ha - so he inadvertantly applies not only twice the amount to twice the area , he puts it on the wrong patch as well - hope nobody paid him for the days work! Yeah! I know you said sane and constructive but these accidents just seem to keep happening. Sane and Constructive According to what he wrote in his lectures Alex Podolinsky was quite prepared to allow small dressings of single superphosphate to kick start run down soils going into BD, only on a one off basis, He said we might need to provide a soluble feed for the first season (my wording) then rock phosphate would take over as the microbial life got into gear, P A Yeomans - probably Australias greatest soil man - also used small quantities of super and lime in similar fashion once only to get things going, this guy turned some horrid shale and slate country into wonderful pasture. OK these guys were using less than you have had spread but there's no choice about that. Along with the cadmium, lead, and mercury, you do get some nice sulphur and a little available calcium coming in with the phosphorus, all of which would probably show low on a soil test there?. Hopefully you have plenty of photos and a written report on the status of the plots up until the accident? some points 1. make sure that the conventional treatment definitely got at least an equivalent dose of super so that the comparison is still valid between BD and it 2 . Ban the perpetrator from the site before he causes any more havoc. 3. try to do some soil and tissue tests to show the difference in availability of nutrients between the two systems - you might be pleasantly surprised. 4. If Glyphosphate is used on the conventional area try to leave a small untreated test, and compare microbial indicators, tendency to crust, extra drying of the soil surface. And if there is a reasonable amount of green material sprayed and incorporated at seeding look very closely for reduced germination and emergence where the greenery was thickest I guarantee you will be unpleasantly surprised on all counts (or some of the farmers will be anyway). Cant think of anything else at the moment - its a shame and potentially a waste of money and time but no going back so you may as well get something from it. Cheers Lloyd Charles 1 ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can Error be turned to Advantage?
Roger: I have seen it stated in a few writings, the only one I can think of off hand is Alex Podilinsky, that there is an increased effect of super applied to BD paddocks. I would think that from a BD perspective the trial is of interest only, what may happen is that it will engage the interest of conventional farmers who previously believed that BD was a nonsense. Maybe all is not lost yet. Like others I believe things happen for a reason. David C - Original Message - From: Roger Pye [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biodynamic Food and Farming Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 13 June 2003 1:24 PM Subject: Re: Can Error be turned to Advantage? Gil Robertson wrote: May I ask why superphosphate was applied to the reveg, assuming it is native veg, as most do not handle super at all well. I said it was 'inadvertent', I cannot go further than that. My guess is that the BD area will handle the super better than the other areas, thus giving the impression it was to right thing to include. Yes, I must admit I have had thoughts that it happened because it was needed to. Part of my philosophy is that the soil dictates its needs to the Universe. The Project Manager, however, thought the occurrence an absolute disaster and the consultant ain't too happy either! Is there any visual difference between the standard BD and the Radionic BD? Visually, not much, but we are going into winter. Energetically I would say the radionic has an 'edge' on the standard. That is purely my impression from energies picked up walking the different areas. We could probably make a more valid comparison next spring. Care to tell me something about the Natural Earth Healing Circle? Off line if required. In its infancy as yet. The concept is groups (links) of people applying natural healing methods to land and water problems be they large or small, broadacre, smallholding or garden. In my opinion humankind has proved conclusively that there is far more to caring for/repairing our environment than the mere and continued application of chemicals and the scientific approach. Take for example the current debate (on this list) on the legality or otherwise of 'standard' BD preps. Philosophically I have a great difficulty with having to kill animals to produce BD substances no matter how beneficial the end products might be. In this house even stray spiders and cockroaches get politely removed and placed elsewhere. Neither do I believe that cow horns are the only container in which BD500/501 can be produced. What I do believe is that in the simplistic equation 'cow manure + cow horn + horn clay + 6 months burial in the ground = BD500' something vital is missing. Equally so if we change the equation to read 'energy + energy + energy + 6 months burial in the ground = BD500'. Were we to identify that 'vital' something, the container question would likely resolve itself. Let me apparently digress a moment. Walking through any patch of woodland, I will see trees that stand straight and true, that lean this way, that way and every which way, that have branch systems which resemble whirlpools in wood. To all intents and purposes, certainly to the majority of eyes that see them, these leaning and/or misshapen trees have grown naturally into these conformations. To a dowser or someone who works with natural energy, the truth is that trees grow according to the forces applied to them - and these include natural energy flows and vortices which cause trees to lean or whirlpool or writhe upwards. Try this. Walk towards a growing tree your own height with a divining rod held at head height, it will react to the aura at a short distance from the trunk. Repeat the exercise 100mm down. Keep on doing it lower and lower at similar intervals, sooner or later you will reach a point near the trunk from which the next 'stop' will be further out. Write the results down. Repeat the exercise three times around the tree, write everything down and draw it on a graph. Then go and look at Glen Atkinson's 'Spiral Astrology' on his website; almost instantly you will see an image very like the one on your graph - a double spiral. Actually a double vortex. He is using it to demonstrate cosmic and earth forces - the same forces which shape trees. What has this to do with BD preps? We have just passed the time when multitudes of cow horns stuffed with cow manure and clay have been buried in the ground for their maturation. I venture to suggest that if a dowser were to conduct the above exercise with an imaginary tree growing at the centre of a maturation site, he/she would detect the top section of a double vortex. Being a dowser, he/she would be able to 'read' below ground as well and find the bottom half. Think about it. Roger ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http
Can Error be turned to Advantage?
A SE NSW project to compare three methods of revegetation of degraded landscape, namely Biodynamic, Compost Assisted, and Conventional, was recently compromised by the inadvertent application of superphosphate to the biodynamic portion. The project commenced in Nov 2001. Immediately prior to the application, the status of the trial was as follows: Biodynamic Paddock, approx 20 hectares. Nineteen hectares of this has received seven sprays of BD500 at BACA recommended rates and three of 501 ditto, the preps being supplied by the association and mixed using John Wilkes-style flowforms. The remaining hectare was included in the first of the above sprays (back-to-back 500/501) and then hand-sprayed with radionically prepared 500 501 at the same times as the others. In addition, the full paddock received three sprays of liquid soil conditioner (compost tea) prepared on site and applied at 100L per hectare between August and December last year. All of these formulations were completely natural, none contained or were assisted by chemicals. The latest site report (24 May 03) by the consultants (leaders in their field in the SE region) stated in part There is a marked improvement in the fertility present as compared to the conventional section over the time of the trial. The soils are slightly softer and better able to absorb water compared to the conventional site and as it all was at the beginning. Compost Assisted Paddock, approx 10 hectares. This has had one application of 30 tonnes of commercially produced compost applied in June last year and three sprays of the same liquid conditioner as above. Conventional Paddock, approx 10 hectares. This has had three sprays of the same liquid conditioner as above, mainly to keep it viable until seeding time. The plan called for weedicide to be applied before seeding (if required) and the application of superphosphate to encourage and facilitate growth. It is pointless crying over spilt milk. It is equally pointless to expend $A16K on a trial and then just walk away from it with nothing to show for the exercise. Accordingly, Project Management has recommended the occurrence be treated as an 'act of God' and incorporated into the plan, so that from now on the trial will be comparing the effect of Biodynamic substances plus a minimal amount of super with Compost Assisted and Conventional. This will give a four-way comparison at the scheduled end of the trial instead of three-way. The probability is that some farmers would decide to add super in any case to 'kick' any improvement along and this extended comparison could therefore be of considerable benefit one way or another. The purpose of this email is to invite sane and constructive comments on how BDNOW! members would handle the above scenario if placed in the same position as Project Management. Cheers Roger Natural Earth Healing Circle (Link 1, NSW) Ph / Fax: +61 2 6255 3824 Mob: +61 410 469 541 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://earth-careonline.com ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can Error be turned to Advantage?
Hi! Roger, Interesting. May I ask why superphosphate was applied to the reveg, assuming it is native veg, as most do not handle super at all well. My guess is that the BD area will handle the super better than the other areas, thus giving the impression it was to right thing to include. Is there any visual difference between the standard BD and the Radionic BD? Care to tell me something about the Natural Earth Healing Circle? Off line if required. Gil Roger Pye wrote: A SE NSW project to compare three methods of revegetation of degraded landscape, namely Biodynamic, Compost Assisted, and Conventional, was recently compromised by the inadvertent application of superphosphate to the biodynamic portion. ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: Can Error be turned to Advantage?
Gil Robertson wrote: May I ask why superphosphate was applied to the reveg, assuming it is native veg, as most do not handle super at all well. I said it was 'inadvertent', I cannot go further than that. My guess is that the BD area will handle the super better than the other areas, thus giving the impression it was to right thing to include. Yes, I must admit I have had thoughts that it happened because it was needed to. Part of my philosophy is that the soil dictates its needs to the Universe. The Project Manager, however, thought the occurrence an absolute disaster and the consultant ain't too happy either! Is there any visual difference between the standard BD and the Radionic BD? Visually, not much, but we are going into winter. Energetically I would say the radionic has an 'edge' on the standard. That is purely my impression from energies picked up walking the different areas. We could probably make a more valid comparison next spring. Care to tell me something about the Natural Earth Healing Circle? Off line if required. In its infancy as yet. The concept is groups (links) of people applying natural healing methods to land and water problems be they large or small, broadacre, smallholding or garden. In my opinion humankind has proved conclusively that there is far more to caring for/repairing our environment than the mere and continued application of chemicals and the scientific approach. Take for example the current debate (on this list) on the legality or otherwise of 'standard' BD preps. Philosophically I have a great difficulty with having to kill animals to produce BD substances no matter how beneficial the end products might be. In this house even stray spiders and cockroaches get politely removed and placed elsewhere. Neither do I believe that cow horns are the only container in which BD500/501 can be produced. What I do believe is that in the simplistic equation 'cow manure + cow horn + horn clay + 6 months burial in the ground = BD500' something vital is missing. Equally so if we change the equation to read 'energy + energy + energy + 6 months burial in the ground = BD500'. Were we to identify that 'vital' something, the container question would likely resolve itself. Let me apparently digress a moment. Walking through any patch of woodland, I will see trees that stand straight and true, that lean this way, that way and every which way, that have branch systems which resemble whirlpools in wood. To all intents and purposes, certainly to the majority of eyes that see them, these leaning and/or misshapen trees have grown naturally into these conformations. To a dowser or someone who works with natural energy, the truth is that trees grow according to the forces applied to them - and these include natural energy flows and vortices which cause trees to lean or whirlpool or writhe upwards. Try this. Walk towards a growing tree your own height with a divining rod held at head height, it will react to the aura at a short distance from the trunk. Repeat the exercise 100mm down. Keep on doing it lower and lower at similar intervals, sooner or later you will reach a point near the trunk from which the next 'stop' will be further out. Write the results down. Repeat the exercise three times around the tree, write everything down and draw it on a graph. Then go and look at Glen Atkinson's 'Spiral Astrology' on his website; almost instantly you will see an image very like the one on your graph - a double spiral. Actually a double vortex. He is using it to demonstrate cosmic and earth forces - the same forces which shape trees. What has this to do with BD preps? We have just passed the time when multitudes of cow horns stuffed with cow manure and clay have been buried in the ground for their maturation. I venture to suggest that if a dowser were to conduct the above exercise with an imaginary tree growing at the centre of a maturation site, he/she would detect the top section of a double vortex. Being a dowser, he/she would be able to 'read' below ground as well and find the bottom half. Think about it. Roger ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
