Re: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers
- Original Message - From: Tobias Koenig Hi Tobias and list members Re the canola I am certainly biased - I dont like GMO's and probably within five years there will be no other type of canola worldwide! I am exremely fortunate in that my neighbours to the west have never grown it and we have probably got 5 miles of clean country into the prevailing winds. We are lucky! Most farmers will have no choice about whether this stuff comes onto their farm or not I don't see a problem with other older style brassicas (non GMO) as green manure - if there is a need for them - My experience so far though has been that wheat crops following lupins or peas are at least equal to those after canola without the need for nitrogen input. The conventional wisdom (Ag Department) on nitrogen benefits of grain legume crops is not anyway near the mark - underestimates it by heaps Your thoughts on combatting wild radish with brassica crops green manured are interesting and something that I need to try in the future . Cheers Lloyd Charles
Re: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers
In a message dated 3/17/02 2:12:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: SStorch wrote: What is being found out by looking at the biological assays of the bd remedies and the compost they make is that these things are the precursors for life in the soil. They contain all of the organisms to initiate the prosesses that will unlock all the nutrients and minerals in the soil through biological activity. Question: Have you done biological assays of composted remedy herbs and cow manure without them having been treated the BD way (such as the Quick Return Method of composting) compared to being treated the BD way? It would be interesting to see if the BD preparation of the herbs and manure has a specific influence on the biological diversity, or whether these treatments facilitate the esoteric energy aspect of the remedies (excuse the layman terminology). No we have not yet done this, it seems a waste of time, why do something second rate when you may go first class...leave that to the nay-sayers. Question: Does anybody have references to peer-reviewed scientific academic literature which shows that microbes unlock locked minerals and nutrients? I have been talking to conventional agronomists who will not believe that this is possible. Usual story. Let them look at 15-20 year bd treated soils and then let them explain how these things are possible to accomplich on commercially farmed soils. 1500 gallon tea brewer is filling and will be run in a few hours. I have designed an ''upwelling tube'' Question: Is this the same as the tubes common with fish tank filters, through which the air bubbles, thereby circulating the water? Yes, it is just on a larger scale, 2-4 inch diameter tubes and 120 liter per minute -250 lpm bubblers. Question: Has anybody tried using flowforms for making compost tea, is per the New Zealand method of stirring the BD remedies? Strikes me that, given the negative effects of the pump, that the flow forms would provide all the oxygen needed, as well as adding their energy through the vortices. Yes we are doing that in addition to using the stirring machine to imprint the atomic structures of the funal filaments and microbes upon the water. SStorch
Re: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers
Title: Re: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers From: SBruno Yes we are doing that in addition to using the stirring machine to imprint the atomic structures of the funal filaments and microbes upon the water. SStorch Thank you for this part of the info. In LL Markess
Re: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers
What is being found out by looking at the biological assays of the bd remedies and the compost they make is that these things are the precursors for life in the soil. They contain all of the organisms to initiate the prosesses that will unlock all the nutrients and minerals in the soil through biological activity. By looking at these different things I have been able to produce the most fungal/bacterial tea that the SWI has seen to date. As this is written my new 1500 gallon tea brewer is filling and will be run in a few hours. I have designed an ''upwelling tube'' that will move about 100 gallons per minute with air, letting the fungal filaments grow to maximum length and thickness without the damage that occurs in pumps. The use of the bd remedies is key to the production of this superior quality tea. SStorch
Re: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers
Dear Allan, You were asking about compost tea type shortcuts. This one does not deal with a compost tea type effect but a shortcut way of increasing the pH while putting out the 500. One of our local group members, Nigel White runs his 500 through flow forms random intermittently during the month before putting it out. The interesting part is that he crushes up some quartz into pieces that will fit into the flow forms and not be washed away, somewhere about 1-2 in diameter.Over the first year the pH increased from 5.0 to 5.6. Considering that the farm had been BD for the last 14 years, and this was the first time that this had been done there it could indicate that it may be a technique to follow up and see if the results can be replicated. The pond that the flow forms run into carries enough water for 500 to be put out over over fourteen hundred acres. There has been lots of talk about using trees as transmitters, or field broadcasters and all sorts of other methods. This pond acts as a broadcaster over the farm because it follows the witness of the 500 that has been sprayed out, because some of the 500 which had been sprayed is always in the pond, and the two arealways connected. Using the witness method of broadcasting enables you to change what is happening over your property without having to actually treat the area physically by going over it. whole area. When the flow forms are running they revitalise the 500 that had already been sprayed out. The line of broadcast is horizontal to the water level of the pond and instead of it just being spread over 1400 acres it now spreads over an area considerably further out from Nigel's place. Howzat for a nifty idea. If you understand the nature of subtle energies you can use all types of things as radionic broadcasters. I hope that the drought breaks soon on the East coast. Regards and best wishes, James - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, March 15, 2002 3:29 PM Subject: Re: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers Allan writes: some sort of baseline for the substances Well, yes...FWIW. But let's never forget that it's FORCES we're working with here, not just substances. Brer Lovel's The Nature of Forces bears re-reading. Well yes, and no, Woody. When we're talking BC and Pfeiffer Field Spray, we've got lots of physical possibilities also. I'm not looking for real 'answers' with these tests. I'm mostly interested in seeing if BD practitioners have 'short cuts' to 'compost tea'-type effects. To look at 500 in the same fashion would require looking at 501 in the same fashion. I sort of think that that says it all. Thanks for your reminder. -Allan
RE: Compost for Brewers
Allan writes: some sort of baseline for the substances Well, yes...FWIW. But let's never forget that it's FORCES we're workingwith here, not just substances. Brer Lovel's The Nature of Forces bears re-reading. I would support testing the preps and will contribute $ if you go ahead. How would you get a scientific measurement of life forces anyways, one that would be accepted by the status quo academic/ag community? If tests indicate a higher level of beneficial organisms, it would be proof to me that the preps are adding something to the growing environment. To just depend on believing that there are life forces at work based on one's own experience won't get BD out of the woo-woo realm - which seems to be needed if BD is going to gain wider acceptance. Personally, I'm a believer, but I also am curious to see what the tests would produce. Nancy G. -- __ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop@Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
Re: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers
Why do you need to know about the bugs? I thought it was just the forces in the preps that we use, what have the bugs got to do with it? Well, again, yes and no. People have already received good reports on the soil foodweb analysis of their BC. The Pfeiffer Sprays actually have bacteria added to them. We know that the preps work well with benign microbes. It would be nice to actually take a look and find out more of what is going on with the preps on a biological level. This is not meant at all to forget about or overlook their spiritual purpose and value. While we talk a lot about spiritual food for mankind, we also talk alot about how healhy plants do not have disease or insect pests. And then we talk a lot about how to treat those plant diseases or insect pests. When you listen to Elaine for a while, and not just her theories but her trials and experiements, I at least realize that Elaine is talking about the sort of every day physical success I was hoping to always have with my plants if I applied the preps in the fall and spring. Many times I get those same successes, but sometimes I don't. Elaine's model, for me, is the first model I've seen that really explains those differences and to me they make tremendous sense. (Nowadays, of course, I apply preps more frequently.) Annual plants evolved in complex symbiosis with a foodweb that was already millions of years old. Today, the devestation of the soil is so total that even in the forests there are few examples of healthy complex foodwebs. (We are losing our hemlocks here because the soil foodweb of the woods has been 'damaged by acid rains.') When Al Kapuler spoke at my confernece several years back he said, Hey, if I were going to innoculate with bacteria on a farm scale, this is what I'd do: I'd take a small amount of a microbial dense source and stir it for about 1 hour in about 3 gallons of warm water and then I'd splash large droplets of it over the land towards evening time, work it into the soil if I could and make sure to not do that just before a rain. Al Kapuler, former research scientist for Seeds of Change, is a Phd in microbiology. These tests are in no way meant to point a finger at the preps and say It's the bugs! From my point of view they are to encourage the use of barrel compost and perhaps the use of Pfeiffer Field Spray in the ways that Elaine uses compost tea. And they are way that the BD person inspired by Elaine who wants to use BC more often in confidence that he's doing as well as the brewers can do the same sceintifically and not through dogma. And, I think many of us think this is a way to show off the array of microbes that BD has been using all along. In no way, in my mind and my humble opinion, would these tests contradict the spiritual power or intent of the BD preps. -Allan
Re: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers
Allan: . Would it not be logical to test the same soil treated and untreated with preps and or Pfeiffer sprays, or alternately compost with and without preps. I agree with Dr Ingham that the bugs are important, in fact so much so that I am attending her workshop in 10 days, but if you read her material then it is the growing of the bugs in good compost and then the correct brewing of the tea to extract and grow them on that causes her success and the extended varieties of bugs. I doubt that just testing the preps will tell you much because you are only part way down the path of their use. Test away by all means but will it really tell you anything? My two bobs worth. David C - Original Message - From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, 15 March 2002 11:15 PM Subject: Re: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers Why do you need to know about the bugs? I thought it was just the forces in the preps that we use, what have the bugs got to do with it? Well, again, yes and no. People have already received good reports on the soil foodweb analysis of their BC. The Pfeiffer Sprays actually have bacteria added to them. We know that the preps work well with benign microbes. It would be nice to actually take a look and find out more of what is going on with the preps on a biological level. This is not meant at all to forget about or overlook their spiritual purpose and value. While we talk a lot about spiritual food for mankind, we also talk alot about how healhy plants do not have disease or insect pests. And then we talk a lot about how to treat those plant diseases or insect pests. When you listen to Elaine for a while, and not just her theories but her trials and experiements, I at least realize that Elaine is talking about the sort of every day physical success I was hoping to always have with my plants if I applied the preps in the fall and spring. Many times I get those same successes, but sometimes I don't. Elaine's model, for me, is the first model I've seen that really explains those differences and to me they make tremendous sense. (Nowadays, of course, I apply preps more frequently.) Annual plants evolved in complex symbiosis with a foodweb that was already millions of years old. Today, the devestation of the soil is so total that even in the forests there are few examples of healthy complex foodwebs. (We are losing our hemlocks here because the soil foodweb of the woods has been 'damaged by acid rains.') When Al Kapuler spoke at my confernece several years back he said, Hey, if I were going to innoculate with bacteria on a farm scale, this is what I'd do: I'd take a small amount of a microbial dense source and stir it for about 1 hour in about 3 gallons of warm water and then I'd splash large droplets of it over the land towards evening time, work it into the soil if I could and make sure to not do that just before a rain. Al Kapuler, former research scientist for Seeds of Change, is a Phd in microbiology. These tests are in no way meant to point a finger at the preps and say It's the bugs! From my point of view they are to encourage the use of barrel compost and perhaps the use of Pfeiffer Field Spray in the ways that Elaine uses compost tea. And they are way that the BD person inspired by Elaine who wants to use BC more often in confidence that he's doing as well as the brewers can do the same sceintifically and not through dogma. And, I think many of us think this is a way to show off the array of microbes that BD has been using all along. In no way, in my mind and my humble opinion, would these tests contradict the spiritual power or intent of the BD preps. -Allan
Compost for Brewers
I saw a SFI analysis of compost from Freedom Organic and it sure contains a lot of organisms. For example, total fungal biomass of 1120 which SFI rated as excellent. I've had tea analyzed by SFI but not compost. Anybody had BD compost or BC analyzed by SFI?? Dan
Re: Compost for Brewers
I saw a SFI analysis of compost from Freedom Organic and it sure contains a lot of organisms. For example, total fungal biomass of 1120 which SFI rated as excellent. I've had tea analyzed by SFI but not compost. Anybody had BD compost or BC analyzed by SFI?? Dan Earlier this week I spoke to Elaine about analyzing some BD preps. She, of course, will not do the analysis for free, but if we can raise the funds for the study, she would be very happy to conduct it. I didn't get pricing, but here are the tests she suggests: The tests I'd want to see are total and active bacteria, total and active fungi, protozoa, and nematodes. If the material was added in fields with plants, running mycorrhizal colonization would be good too! This, of course, tells us little about etheric matters, but I think it would be very good information to have about BC and Field Spray, if not 500 also. Anyone interested in kicking in a few bucks to see what's going on in these preps on the microbial level? -Allan
Re[2]: Compost for Brewers
Hi Allan, our budget is very tide this year but I would contribute to the expense provided it is within reason. It would be very interesting to get it analysed by Elain Thank`s Tobias __ Reply Separator _ Subject: Re: Compost for Brewers Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED] at smtpgwy Date:3/14/02 6:42 PM I saw a SFI analysis of compost from Freedom Organic and it sure contains a lot of organisms. For example, total fungal biomass of 1120 which SFI rated as excellent. I've had tea analyzed by SFI but not compost. Anybody had BD compost or BC analyzed by SFI?? Dan Earlier this week I spoke to Elaine about analyzing some BD preps. She, of course, will not do the analysis for free, but if we can raise the funds for the study, she would be very happy to conduct it. I didn't get pricing, but here are the tests she suggests: The tests I'd want to see are total and active bacteria, total and active fungi, protozoa, and nematodes. If the material was added in fields with plants, running mycorrhizal colonization would be good too! This, of course, tells us little about etheric matters, but I think it would be very good information to have about BC and Field Spray, if not 500 also. Anyone interested in kicking in a few bucks to see what's going on in these preps on the microbial level? -Allan
Re[2]: Compost for Brewers
Hi Allan, our budget is very tide this year but I would contribute to the expense provided it is within reason. It would be very interesting to get it analysed by Elain Thank`s Tobias Thanks, Tobias. Does someone have the time to run the numbers across Elaine's webpage? (i.e. what does it cost to run these tests on one sample) Then we can go from there. I think we owe it to ourselves to gather some sort of baseline for the substances we are working with, particularly BC and the Pfeiffer line. Thanks -Allan
Re: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers
Allan writes: some sort of baseline for the substances Well, yes...FWIW. But let's never forget that it's FORCES we're working with here, not just substances. Brer Lovel's The Nature of Forces bears re-reading. Woody and Barbara Aurora Farm is the only unsubsidized, family-run seed farm in North America offering garden seeds grown using Rudolf Steiner's methods of spiritual agriculture. http://www.kootenay.com/~aurora -Original Message- From: Allan Balliett [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, March 14, 2002 6:02 PM Subject: Re[2]: Compost for Brewers Hi Allan, our budget is very tide this year but I would contribute to the expense provided it is within reason. It would be very interesting to get it analysed by Elain Thank`s Tobias Thanks, Tobias. Does someone have the time to run the numbers across Elaine's webpage? (i.e. what does it cost to run these tests on one sample) Then we can go from there. I think we owe it to ourselves to gather some sort of baseline for the substances we are working with, particularly BC and the Pfeiffer line. Thanks -Allan
Compost Tea Brewers
Dorothy wrote : I would like to hear from Jose (or others) who have built their own compost tea machines and gotten good test results on the quality of the tea. I understand that the design and ability to maintain an aerboic tea makes a huge difference. Also, the tank should be desgined so there aren't a lot of corners for anaerboic bio films to build up (all from Dr. Elaine I's materials...) Trouble is that the commercial brewers of any size are pretty expensive (almost $2k) So if there are plans for the do-it-yourselfers, I would like to hear about them. Thanks Hi Dorothy, I have build my own version exactly because I did not have that kind of money to spend. The result was so good than many people have asked me to build also another unit so I gradually entered this business here in Brazil. So far I have made more than 20 units which are spread all over the country making Compost Teas that is helping several farmers from Strickly organic to the most conventional ones. I have sold most of the units to farmers who grows ornamental and have abused chemiclas creating resitant types of fungi. I know that my unit works because all the reports that I have are favourable so far My unit brews Tea using a Vortex Nozzle that incorporates large amounts of air and thereby giving the organisms ( specially bacteria) the necessary oxygen to grow and multiply. I have also created an special blend of ingredients that goes inside the tank which feeds the microbes very efficiently. For those who want to build their own unit I am selling the Vortex Nozzle and a filter that goes in the unit. All the rest ( tank, pump, pipeline, etccc) can be bought locally. If you are interested please contact me directly in the address below: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Regards Jose
