Re: Web Application with PERL or ASP.NET

[Jenda Krynicky]

From: "perl.org" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:36:30 -0700 (PDT), Joe Echavarria wrote
> > Hi there,
> > 
> >   The company i work is considering two tools for the
> > web version of a loan system.  I need to prove that
> > perl is better that ASP.NET for the project. Can
> > anyone help me ?, is posible with perl have controls
> > ?, data grids ?, date controls ?, the way that asp.net
> > works ?, why perl is better ?, give examples of robust
> > web applications writtern in perl , links, examples,
> > etc. anything that could help me prove that perl is
> > better for the project. 
> 
> What might be more interesting might be a comparison of Perl against
> Java. 

Why?
I'm sure you may find a lot of these on the Net already.

> I think to a great extent the answer depends on your requirements,
> developer toolsets and the applications that must be provided
> (integrated) on the site.  

Agreed completely.
 
> Personally, I'm more productive on a number of levels in Visual Studio
> than in vi, textpad, etc., but then that's another cost (in addition
> to the IIS M$ licensing, security concerns, vendor dependence, etc.). 

Personal tastes differ a lot.

> And be aware that (at least poorly-written) Perl has it's own security
> concerns.

Exactly the same can be said about any other language+framework.
I've seen web based applications you could crack via the login dialog 
very easily, written in old ASP as well as ASP.Net+C#


>  I don't think there's much that can justify Perl in this
> context - a lot of what you're looking for are UI components that
> *can* be built with Perl, but are much easier in a drag-and-drop UI
> like Visual Studio.

Well .. depends. drag-and-drop UI ala ASP.Net is great if you 
only need what MS gives you, there is a huge leep from using the 
predefined objects and doing without. Besides huge frameworks take 
ages to learn and you can only be productive if you use them all the 
time.

Besides there is the C# (or VB.Net, but that's the same language with 
a tiny little bit different syntax). That's a major pain in the ass. 
Its braindead type system gets in the way all the time.

And the person who designed the .Net Framework objects (at least 
those I had the "pleasure" to work with) suffered from a strong case 
of OOOverdose. You usualy create ten objects where Perl would use 
just one.

Anyway, by now it's clear that I was forced to spend some time 
fighting C# and I go mad as soon as I even hear the name so you may 
safely ignore anything I say.

Jenda
Perl bends backwards to let you have your way, C# forces you to bend 
backwards so that it can have it's way. Choose for yourself.
= [EMAIL PROTECTED] === http://Jenda.Krynicky.cz =
When it comes to wine, women and song, wizards are allowed 
to get drunk and croon as much as they like.
-- Terry Pratchett in Sourcery


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Re: Web Application with PERL or ASP.NET

[Joe Echavarria]

Well, is a loan system for car dealers dealing with
new and used cars..., the system must have a control
of cars inventory, associate each car with the
customer loan, balances, interes, capital of the
loand, etc.
 
--- Chris Devers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi.
> 
> 
> On Tue, 10 Aug 2004, Joe Echavarria wrote:
> 
> >  The company i work is considering two tools for
> the web version of a 
> > loan system.  I need to prove that perl is better
> that ASP.NET for the 
> > project. Can anyone help me ?
> 
> Maybe, with concrete questions of reasonable scope.
> 
> > is posible with perl have controls ?
> 
> What is a control? Is this an ASP term? Please
> describe what you mean by 
> controls -- what functionality are you hoping for
> here?
> 
> > data grids ?
> 
> You mean like tables &/or matrices? Sure, no
> problem.
> 
> > date controls ?
> 
> In what way[s] are you hoping to control dates?
> Please clarify this.
> 
> > the way that asp.net works ?
> 
> It probably isn't safe to assume that a list for
> Perl Beginners isn't 
> going to be populated with a lot of people that know
> a lot about ASP, so 
> you should probably clarify what it is about ASP
> that you would like to 
> do with Perl. Chances are that Perl can do most
> anything ASP can, but 
> it's hard to make comparisons when this are this
> vague :-)
> 
> > why perl is better ?
> 
> This is a subjective issue, so without having a
> clearer idea about what 
> properties of ASP are being considered, it's hard to
> say how Perl might 
> be "better". Well, not hard -- impossible.
> 
> > give examples of robust web applications writtern
> in perl , links, 
> > examples, etc.
> 
> This is probably what you want:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Chris Devers
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




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RE: Web Application with PERL or ASP.NET

[Hanson, Rob]

> I need to prove that perl is better that ASP.NET for the project.

This is like comparing apples and granola bars.  Perl is a language and
ASP.Net is a framework.  What you should really be doing is comparing Perl
vs. C# (or VB.Net).

ASP.Net (and /Net in general) is a powerful tool, and although I was only
breifly introduced to it I can see where it could enhance a project.  Things
like seamless multi-language support and the ability to code a web app like
a desktop app (a distributed app coded like a local app) are pretty powerful
things.

If I had the opporunity to code for ASP.Net I think I would be a big fan.

So perhaps you shouldn't be trying to convince them that Perl is better than
ASP.Net... perhaps you should instead try to convince them that Perl is
better than C# (or VB.Net) due to the language features and most importantly
the vast library of pre-written code that is available.

So what I am trying to say is, look at Visual Perl
(http://www.activestate.com/Products/ActivePerlProStudio/?_x=1).  It let's
you write .Net apps in Perl.  Sort of the best of both worlds.

Just to give you some background on where I am coming from, I used to be an
ASP developer.  At my jast job I was pulled into the Internet Resources
Department due to the fact that I knew Perl, and although it was an ASP
shop, they had a need to write a CGI app for an external server.
Unfortunately the CGI project fell through, but I did convince them that
Perl was more powerful than VBScript, and they installed ActivePerl which
allowed Perl coding in the ASP pages.  In general we found that things that
the VBScript programmers strugged with I was able to do easily just because
of the language features (regular expressions in particular) and the
available libraries.

Hope that helps some.

Rob




-Original Message-
From: Joe Echavarria [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2004 3:37 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Web Application with PERL or ASP.NET


Hi there,

  The company i work is considering two tools for the
web version of a loan system.  I need to prove that
perl is better that ASP.NET for the project. Can
anyone help me ?, is posible with perl have controls
?, data grids ?, date controls ?, the way that asp.net
works ?, why perl is better ?, give examples of robust
web applications writtern in perl , links, examples,
etc. anything that could help me prove that perl is
better for the project. 

  Thanks.



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Re: Web Application with PERL or ASP.NET

[perl.org]

On Tue, 10 Aug 2004 12:36:30 -0700 (PDT), Joe Echavarria wrote
> Hi there,
> 
>   The company i work is considering two tools for the
> web version of a loan system.  I need to prove that
> perl is better that ASP.NET for the project. Can
> anyone help me ?, is posible with perl have controls
> ?, data grids ?, date controls ?, the way that asp.net
> works ?, why perl is better ?, give examples of robust
> web applications writtern in perl , links, examples,
> etc. anything that could help me prove that perl is
> better for the project. 

This is major flamebait and I'm not going to try to address all potential
objections to this post.  What is the reason that Perl must be justified over
.NET?  Has the decision been made and you are just rationalizing it, do you
have Perl skills and fear of learning .NET, or what is the motivation?

What might be more interesting might be a comparison of Perl against Java. 
Also, try to factor out the M$ concerns - I believe Mono will port .NET to
Linux over time.

I think to a great extent the answer depends on your requirements, developer
toolsets and the applications that must be provided (integrated) on the site.  

Personally, I'm more productive on a number of levels in Visual Studio than in
vi, textpad, etc., but then that's another cost (in addition to the IIS M$
licensing, security concerns, vendor dependence, etc.).  And be aware that (at
least poorly-written) Perl has it's own security concerns.  I don't think
there's much that can justify Perl in this context - a lot of what you're
looking for are UI components that *can* be built with Perl, but are much
easier in a drag-and-drop UI like Visual Studio.

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Re: Web Application with PERL or ASP.NET

[Chris Devers]

Hi.
On Tue, 10 Aug 2004, Joe Echavarria wrote:
 The company i work is considering two tools for the web version of a 
loan system.  I need to prove that perl is better that ASP.NET for the 
project. Can anyone help me ?
Maybe, with concrete questions of reasonable scope.
is posible with perl have controls ?
What is a control? Is this an ASP term? Please describe what you mean by 
controls -- what functionality are you hoping for here?

data grids ?
You mean like tables &/or matrices? Sure, no problem.
date controls ?
In what way[s] are you hoping to control dates? Please clarify this.
the way that asp.net works ?
It probably isn't safe to assume that a list for Perl Beginners isn't 
going to be populated with a lot of people that know a lot about ASP, so 
you should probably clarify what it is about ASP that you would like to 
do with Perl. Chances are that Perl can do most anything ASP can, but 
it's hard to make comparisons when this are this vague :-)

why perl is better ?
This is a subjective issue, so without having a clearer idea about what 
properties of ASP are being considered, it's hard to say how Perl might 
be "better". Well, not hard -- impossible.

give examples of robust web applications writtern in perl , links, 
examples, etc.
This is probably what you want:


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Re: Web Application with PERL or ASP.NET

[JupiterHost.Net]

Joe Echavarria wrote:
Hi there,
Hello,
  The company i work is considering two tools for the
web version of a loan system.  I need to prove that
perl is better that ASP.NET for the project. Can
anyone help me ?, is posible with perl have controls
?, data grids ?, date controls ?, the way that asp.net
works ?, why perl is better ?, give examples of robust
web applications writtern in perl , links, examples,
etc. anything that could help me prove that perl is
better for the project. 

One thing clueless management will be likely to pay attention to is cost.
Perl is free and well documented, supported etc. ASP has to run on
expensivly licensed servers and is as unreliable as any other inscure 
windows trash. You'll likely need to reword it so as not to insult any 
ignorant, MS slaved, folks .

Perl is also very very flexible, search.cpan.org has many many modules 
that allow you to easily do many tasks. Like .NET ans SOAP, among 
thousand of other things.

Deveoping in Perl is quickk and easy to learn and lends itself to easy 
maintaining. (Especially if you doo smart thins right from the start, 
like use strict and warnings)

Just my .02 ;p
HTH :)
Lee.M - JupiterHost.Net
  Thanks.
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