Re: Dosing Glucosamine/Chondroitin
In a message dated 1/2/2003 11:56:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The surgeon who gave me the diagnosis told me that she was not a candidate for surgery but that she should have glucosamine/chondroitin supplementation for the rest of her life, Hi Anne, There are a bazillion glucosamine/chondroitin sulfate products out there, with both veterinary and human labelling. Not all the products are created equal... Independent lab tests have repeatedly shown than many (most) of the G/CS products didn't actually contain the level of active ingredients they were labelled as. Not much good to save money up front but end up paying for a placebo. So, I think the first question is which supplement are you going to use? The veterinary products with the strongest research behind them and credibility for having in the jar what's on the label, are Cosequin DS by Nutramax and GlycoFlex-II and GlycoFlex-III made by Vetri-Science Laboratories. You'll find extensive websites for both companies and dosing guidelines for treatment and maintainance based on weight. Both are theoretically sold sold through vets but I know Cosequin is widely available online and would guess the same might be true for Glyco-Flex. -Sherri Venditti
RE: TV Berner sighting
Hi, There is nothing my Ursula likes better than to go see the birdies at PetsMart on the weekend. Not sure the birdies like her keen intensive gaze:-) Ursula and her best friend Titan had a nice game of fly birdie fly in the back yard. A young crow had fallen from the sky and the two of them were running in tandem with the headless, one-legged gutted corpse each holding a wing tip. A few weeks later the government in its wisdom warned about West Nile Virus asking the public to hand in dead birds, and I was left wondering if our birdie was a found treasure, which was more likely, than them snatching it in low flight which they try with the barn swallows! I doubt Berners are good bird dogs because they snack on them first. Rose
RE: Bathing Berners
Hi Gayle, Too bad we don't live closer, I have had a few dogs pull a fast one about being bathed. I have hot water plumped to the great outdoors, no cold well water for my dogs. I have had bucking broncos who back off and wrestle to get away acting like the world is falling. I just hang on, don't look them in the face, get alongside them, and using a gentle spray start at the shoulder, if needs be they have a restraining collar on them and we just get on with it. No fuss or upset on my part, I tell the dog (same rule for husbands) I am not arguing with them, this is not up for discussion so submit and lets get this over with. Next time around no trouble:-) My will be done:-) Rose!
RE: BERNER-L digest 4204
Our 5 month old berner Riley's coat has recently become longer, very shiny, wavy and his tail is starting to get feathery. It seems like he has an adult type coat now everywhere except the top of his head and behind his ears, which is still that downy puppy type fuzz. I was wondering if any of you could tell me how long before his coat will even out. He also weighs about 60 lbs. already. My husband and I have always had dogs in the past, several different breeds. We were without a dog for a few years before we got Riley. He's our first berner and we researched the breed quite extensively before getting him. We couldn't be happier with our choice - My husband is home with him everyday. We have no children, so of course it is as though he IS our first born and is lavished upon every minute. It is comical, most of our visitors these days apparantly come to visit Him not US. He sure makes us smile alot. I know you all know what I mean. Colleen -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:03 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: BERNER-L digest 4204 BERNER-L Digest 4204 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Berner on Lizzie McGuire by Joanne Gerow [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: partial torn ACL by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Teeth question by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Addison's (ws: Re: partial torn ACL) by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: BERNER-L digestby [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) RE: Rimadyl by Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) RE: raw meat bones question by Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) RE: berners life expectancy: breeding versus spayed by Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) RE: partial torn ACL by Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Happy Birthday Buck by Sheila Dolan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) RE: Rimadyl by Martha Hoverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Happy Birthday Stevie!! by Karen McFarlane [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) re: Rimadyl by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Dosing Glucosamine/Chondroitin by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: 1st time doggie owner - (response Part 1 long) by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Re: 1st time doggie owner - (response Part 2 long) by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) RE: Help on a partially torn cruciate ligament! by Nancy Melone [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Sadie 7/15/92-1/2/03 by Candy Roper [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Re: Partially Torn ACL by Alan Susan Kowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Re: Rimadyl by Sharon Greenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Rimadyl/Picturew by Sylvia Katvala [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) Re: TV Berner sighting by David Nowell and Susan Burnham [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23) RE: bathing--more tips by David Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24) Post by Sherri re: breeding by Matt Julia Richert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25) Re: bathing by Janice Parky [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26) Bathing Berners by gayle gramstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27) Drug question by Tracy Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: 003a01c2b247$db68dd20$320814d0@me From: Joanne Gerow [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Martha Hoverson [EMAIL PROTECTED], Subject: Re: Berner on Lizzie McGuire Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:15:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit That is so funnyI am sitting here, at 5:am, answering my e-mails. I have on the TV, but have not turned it from the Disney channel, which the children were watching last night...I hear something about a Bernese Mountain Dog and I am never watching Westminster again. I turn around to see a Bernese Mountain Dog on the screen! I quickly jumped up to see what show it was and it was Lizzie McGuire, it is a 2002 episode entitled Mom's Best Friend. I was just going to e-mail the list to see if anyone knew anything about it! Joanne Gerow - Original Message - From: Martha Hoverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, January 01, 2003 2:23 PM Subject: Berner on Lizzie McGuire This information comes from my daughter, Lucy, age 7: On Lizzie McGuire her father was yelling at the TV and saying that a Bernese Mountain Dog should have won something on a dog show, and I saw a picture of the Bernese Mountain Dog. And I thought it was cute. Lizzie McGuire is a series on the Disney Channel. Lucy was thrilled to see a Berner making an appearance, even on a TV within the TV! Martha Hoverson and Molly (who feels much better today) and Lucy, too! [EMAIL PROTECTED] Portland, Maine _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 2 Jan 2003 05:52:33 EST Subject: Re: partial torn ACL To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type:
looking for plans or used cart
Hello, I have been looking all over for a used goat/dog cart near NY state. As I want to teach my new Berner to drive as I have with my Std. Poodle. I was hoping to find someone near me that can either build one or has an old one around that needs work. I would really love the old type goat sulkys. If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear from you. Johanna Williams - Original Message - From: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 1:01 AM Subject: BERNER-L digest 4204 BERNER-L Digest 4204 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Berner on Lizzie McGuire by Joanne Gerow [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: partial torn ACL by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Teeth question by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Addison's (ws: Re: partial torn ACL) by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: BERNER-L digest by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) RE: Rimadyl by Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) RE: raw meat bones question by Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) RE: berners life expectancy: breeding versus spayed by Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) RE: partial torn ACL by Rose Tierney [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Happy Birthday Buck by Sheila Dolan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) RE: Rimadyl by Martha Hoverson [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Happy Birthday Stevie!! by Karen McFarlane [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) re: Rimadyl by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Dosing Glucosamine/Chondroitin by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) Re: 1st time doggie owner - (response Part 1 long) by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) Re: 1st time doggie owner - (response Part 2 long) by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) RE: Help on a partially torn cruciate ligament! by Nancy Melone [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Sadie 7/15/92-1/2/03 by Candy Roper [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Re: Partially Torn ACL by Alan Susan Kowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Re: Rimadyl by Sharon Greenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Rimadyl/Picturew by Sylvia Katvala [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) Re: TV Berner sighting by David Nowell and Susan Burnham [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23) RE: bathing--more tips by David Steinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24) Post by Sherri re: breeding by Matt Julia Richert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25) Re: bathing by Janice Parky [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26) Bathing Berners by gayle gramstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27) Drug question by Tracy Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic
In a message dated 1/3/2003 8:44:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I should go to the COSTCO and buy the human formulation of Cosequin DS. It was much cheaper and is identical in formulation. Maybe. Maybe not. Generic over the counter products may or may not contain what the label claims they do. No one actually checks on them. Especially when you are talking about nutraceuticals and herbal type products that are produced and sold w/out the supervision of the FDA, you just never really know what you are getting. You know nothing about product purity or dosing. I was at a medical conference recently where a group of researchers actually bought 10 different brands of a common herbal product (I forget whether it was ginsing or black cohoshsomething like that) and analysed the products. All the companies had labeling that claimed the same dosage of the same product. The range of what WAS actually in the pills they were selling was amazingfrom NONE of the active ingredient at all to several times the dose listed. Buyer beware! If you are buying a product not under FDA regulation, I would go w/ a well recognised brand name w/ a repuation to protect. Vilma Briggs, MD Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CGC and Ted
Re: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic
Nancy wrote: I should go to the COSTCO and buy the human formulation of Cosequin DS. It was much cheaper and is identical in formulation. Vilma wrote: Maybe. Maybe not. Generic over the counter products may or may not contain what the label claims they do. and my .02 g The company that makes Cosequin DS (Nutramax Labs) markets the same product for people under the Cosemin DS label... as well as their original powder formulation for horses. Wish there was a Costco near meg -Sherri V.
Re: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic
The other thing to be concerned about when reviewing brands and ingredients is digestibility. I believe even opening the capsule and putting the powder on food makes a difference. The latest fad in vitamins is a spray delivery system for better absorption. More effective? I don't know. When these products first came out one of my vets mentioned that it made no sense to him that any of these supplements would be effective as he did not believe they stayed in the GI system long enough to be absorbed. But he also said he can't deny that he's seen positive effects, it just puzzled him. This was years back, don't know what his thinking is now. jane heggen the boys of iowa - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 9:08 AM Subject: Re: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic Nancy wrote: I should go to the COSTCO and buy the human formulation of Cosequin DS. It was much cheaper and is identical in formulation. Vilma wrote: Maybe. Maybe not. Generic over the counter products may or may not contain what the label claims they do. and my .02 g The company that makes Cosequin DS (Nutramax Labs) markets the same product for people under the Cosemin DS label... as well as their original powder formulation for horses. Wish there was a Costco near meg -Sherri V.
Re: Partially Torn ACL
Our 5-year-old Berner boy has undergone 4 ACL surgeries in the past 9 months for torn ruptured ACLs. He partially tore his right rear ACL, but we received a misdiagnosis of a pulled groin muscle. Ended up completely rupturing the right rear ACL, underwent surgery, then completely ruptured his left rear ACL 16 days later. The left healed fine right from the start but the right had too much movement so had to be redone. After 2 months, there was still too much movement so our vet did a double inside-outside to firmly stabilize the knee. Niko was a bit of an anomaly as he was/is allergic to Cartrophen, the silver bullet of ACL surgeries. Niko is currently healing well, but it's definitely a long, slow process. His rump and rear leg muscles have completely atrophied, so we're slowly rebuilding the muscles. It's been about 3 months since his last surgery. Please keep us posted on your pup's progress, Laura __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: Partial ACL tears
Hi Everyone- Cruciate injuries 'used' to be considered an out of shape, sports injury in middle aged dogs, as Sherri has pointed out...but I can attest personally that many, many Berners succumb to this injury, regardless of age or physical structure. For instance, my Tully was only 4 yrs old when he ruptured his ACL, and he was not what I would consider to be heavy. He eventually ruptured his other knee about 3 yrs later, but that was probably due to the tremendous stress of using the leg as his primary support. He had many complications with the first knee surgery. My female Berner, Avery, is super athletic, in top physical condition and very lean and muscular. She partially ruptured her ACL a few months ago at the age of 3 1/2 yrs old. We decided to rest her and treat her with anti-inflamatories (Rimadyl) when she limps. Several months after her diagnosis, she only limps after exercise and on rainy days. Looks like we will not be putting her through surgery for a while yet. There are typically several options when dealing with a partial ACL tear. Some orthopedic specialists will recommend rest and pain management, while others will recommend to run your dog, hoping to fully tear the ligament. Some opt for surgical repair of the ligament regardless of the full or partial tear. At this time, there appears to be no 'right or wrong' answer. There are also several surgical techniques for repairing the injured knee, and those are up for debate as well. In the clinic setting, we are seeing young and old, small and large breed dogs with ruptured ACL's. Some are definitely out of shape, and even obese...while others are in top condition. Seems there is no rhyme or reason...or...perhaps there IS and we just don't know it yet? g Jennie Hoffnagle Glenmoore, PA
Have a funny Epiphany
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Weird Moult
My recent adoptee, Barney, has suddenly come into his first big moult! Has been very mild here UK on the Welsh Borders. Christmas Day we walked four and a half miles to a very pretty pub over the River Wye and sat out in the Beer Garden in gorgeous sunshine drinking pints of Guinness. Got home with three very muddy but very happy dogs, the Heavens opened again just as we got back home. Very mild, very wet, very muddy is the scenario here. Brings me back to Barney. Trying to clean him up and his fur is coming out in handfuls and a big mess of tangles that I have finished up clipping out! I changed him over to semi-BARF strict diet in June when he came to live here. He was very fat, just four years old but he waddled when he walked and could barely make it round the woods with my other two. Totally out of condition and his coat was a tangled mess! Groomed him as best as I could as he doesn't like it, but as the months went by his coat started to shine and he was looking good. He is a good two stone lighter now, does nine mile walks, no problem and steps out proudly with Sim and Sunny.!! And chases around my woods, a very happy, healthy slimline boy! Then this moult! Occurred to me that this is first big moult since he has been here. He has lost all that weight and guess has an excess of hair to shed now, surely the strangest moult I have ever seen. Under his belly it was almost in matted ridges. Have just been clipping them out, then combing and the new hair is so soft and silky. Guessing when this is over he is gonna be the handsomest of boys (apart from My Monster Pup Sim of course!) Anyone else had anything similar? All love, Jean, Sunny, Simmy, Barney and the Gang X http://www.angelfire.com/anime3/longlease/index.htm
RE: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic
Vilma's advice is well taken. I do not buy a generic. The Cosamin DS for humans that I buy for my dogs is manufactured by the same company that manufactures Cosequin DS for veterinary use -- Nutramax. The human version claims to be the only G/C sulfate brand proven effective in controlled U.S. published studies to reduce joint pain and protect cartilage. Not that I believe everything that advertisers say, but I have stayed with the identical manufacturer of the vet prescribed G/C and use the human version, assuming that the human formulation is at least equal to or better than the veterinary one. I could be wrong, but given that I will use a G/C product this seemed to be my wisest choice. Nancy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 6:28 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic In a message dated 1/3/2003 8:44:10 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I should go to the COSTCO and buy the human formulation of Cosequin DS. It was much cheaper and is identical in formulation. Maybe. Maybe not. Generic over the counter products may or may not contain what the label claims they do. No one actually checks on them. Especially when you are talking about nutraceuticals and herbal type products that are produced and sold w/out the supervision of the FDA, you just never really know what you are getting. You know nothing about product purity or dosing. I was at a medical conference recently where a group of researchers actually bought 10 different brands of a common herbal product (I forget whether it was ginsing or black cohoshsomething like that) and analysed the products. All the companies had labeling that claimed the same dosage of the same product. The range of what WAS actually in the pills they were selling was amazingfrom NONE of the active ingredient at all to several times the dose listed. Buyer beware! If you are buying a product not under FDA regulation, I would go w/ a well recognised brand name w/ a repuation to protect. Vilma Briggs, MD Mt. Gilead, OH U-UD Mocha Java Slurp, UDX, HIC, TT Ch. Brighteye Expresso Bean, UD, NDD, TT U-CDX Our Little Buddy, UD, NA, TT Thirdtym's A Charm, CGC and Ted
Re: Glucosamine/Chondroitin--brand name vs generic
In a message dated 1/3/2003 10:41:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When these products first came out one of my vets mentioned that it made no sense to him that any of these supplements would be effective as he did not believe they stayed in the GI system long enough to be absorbed. I don't know about absorption...but some of the academic papers I've read make a point of saying that their research was done using laboratory grade glucosamine or chondroitin sulfate and that they couldn't be sure the commercially available products would provide similar effects. -Sherri V.
Re: Dosing Glucosamine/Chondroitin
After having my parts puppy on Cosequin DS for a few years, she went down one day and was put on Rimadyl for two weeks. The response was amazing -- in two days she was up and about. At the end of the 2 week course, I switched her back to the Cosequin, due to concerns about the emerging evidence of previously undocumented sideeffects, and continued on that until she went down again about 6 months later. One quarter of one 75 mg chewable had my voracious foodhound off her food for 3 days. Shortly thereafter, one of her nephews was put on Rimadyl post-ACL surgery with the same reaction. I recommend against Rimadyl with my line of pups for that reason. Not long after this all happened, I tried SynoviCre (DVM Labs) and would not use Cosequin DS again! =) With the Cosequin, if I missed so much as one pill, Chance would be showing signs of discomfort and some days it just wouldn't do the job. The SynoviCre, in my experience, has been amazing -- miss a dose (thanks to Razzy stealing the tub and sprinkling it throughout the yard!) and she can go a good week without. I have suggested it to several of my clients and they all have had good results as well. I have recently switched to their new Synovi G3 and am still happy with it. It comes in liver flavored granules which I sprinkle over the food. All my hopes, Vicky and the Horde =P~
Re: Bathing an uncooperative dog.
Hi guys! I have the perfect solution. I put Penny the wonderpup (almost 6 months) and my 13 year old daughter in the bathroom! Everybody gets a bath!! Connie, Maggie (the bather) and Penny the wonderpup
Hygroma
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Re:looking for plans or used cart
I would really love the old type goat sulkys. If anyone has any ideas I would love to hear from you. Hello Joanna, You might want to check in with some of the goat societies as I bet a member or two have a cart laying around somewhere. Just search the web for Goat clubs/societies or type in Lamancha, Nubian etc. (breeds of goats) and see where that takes you. Good luck in your search and do offer to share pictures of your dog in harness with the sulky when your dog is old enough. Bernerly, Angela Wagenblast Wagenblast Kennels Caledonia, Ont.
RE: Hygroma
Mary, You posted just perfectly, welcome to the List! Congratulations on the puppy, I hope you enjoy years with Bear! As for the hygroma, draining it can add the possibility of infection. The best thing to try at this point is to pad it, just as you did. See http://www.dogleggs.com/ for some pads that might work better, perhaps you can avoid the need for draining it. Best of luck, and let us know how Bear's elbow does! Pat Long ( Luther) Berwyn PA
Partial Torn ACL
Last year my 6 year old Batty began limping. Three vets, two western, one of eastern philosophy said she had a torn ACL. I was told that a better evaluation could be done with anesthesia. As it was time for her to be spayed, I decided to have both done at the same time. The ACL evaluation was inconclusive and I was told the only way to know was to have ACL surgery. I elected to crate rest her with heavy doses of glucosimine and condroitin. After two weeks she was walking without any pain. It took a while longer to convince her that the stairs were not evil and causing her pain. A year and a half later, Batty has no evidence of any knee problem. Guess all the vets were wrong. If you can wait and give your dog some time for healing, try it before agreeing to surgery. Shelley Gonzales Bigfork, MT where the little snow we have is greatly appreciated by my Berner Babes
pictures
hey there--i was wondering if anyone would want to share pictures of their dogs? i know it's not allowed to post them to the group, but i would be interested in seeing people's dogs on our own! so...i hope i'm not doing anything wrong by asking...also i have an 8 month old girl, and i would really love to see pix of other puppies, too! take care, danielle hudson
Berner Sighting
Hi! Today during the Fiesta Bowl (Ohio State and Miami) a Berner appeared in the TD Waterhouse ad. Sara Steele
