Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Hi, Am 08.09.20 um 14:23 schrieb Cor Nouws: > Hi, > > Muhammet Kara wrote on 05/09/2020 15:55: >> Hi Andreas & all, >> >> On 8/31/20 9:06 PM, Andreas Mantke wrote: >>> Maybe a look into the second sentence of § 12 is also of interest here. >>> The MC initiate and supervise the board elections. >>> >>> a) Could lead to a conflict of interest? >> It is hard to say 'never' to such things with many aspects, but I can't >> think of a general case right now. One needs to resign from the MC >> before nominating for the BoD elections, and he/she is out of the MC >> loop immediately. And it is no longer possible to have an effect on the >> election process any more. > Of course I've seen the process and the situation a few times during the > many years that I served in the MC. > Given the number op people involved in the MC, looking at the election > process, multiple people supervising it, the way we discuss in openness, > etc. the change that one MC member influences the elections is in my > experience rather hypothetical. maybe you didn't get the point. It's a heavy thread to the foundation body MC, if you create the impression that it is used to get a mandate in a 'higher' / 'better' (more powerful or what ever you think) foundation body. And especially if you stay in one foundation body (during the elections) as long as you get the mandate in the other foundation body (with safety net). Regards, Andreas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Hi, Muhammet Kara wrote on 05/09/2020 15:55: > Hi Andreas & all, > > On 8/31/20 9:06 PM, Andreas Mantke wrote: >> Maybe a look into the second sentence of § 12 is also of interest here. >> The MC initiate and supervise the board elections. >> >> a) Could lead to a conflict of interest? > > It is hard to say 'never' to such things with many aspects, but I can't > think of a general case right now. One needs to resign from the MC > before nominating for the BoD elections, and he/she is out of the MC > loop immediately. And it is no longer possible to have an effect on the > election process any more. Of course I've seen the process and the situation a few times during the many years that I served in the MC. Given the number op people involved in the MC, looking at the election process, multiple people supervising it, the way we discuss in openness, etc. the change that one MC member influences the elections is in my experience rather hypothetical. >> b) Is not showing solidarity (if MC membership is canceled or >> suspended), because more work on less shoulder? > > It depends. In terms of the number of the MC members, role of the > resigning member etc. But I wouldn't expect it to have any significant > effect on the process of the BoD elections. It is mostly an > automated/technical process. I think that's reflecting reality in a fair way too. Cheers, Cor -- Cor Nouws, member Board of Directors The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint GPD key ID: 0xB13480A6 - 591A 30A7 36A0 CE3C 3D28 A038 E49D 7365 B134 80A6 mobile : +31 (0)6 25 20 7001 skype : cornouws blog: cor4office-nl.blogspot.com jabber : cor4off...@jabber.org -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Hi Andreas & all, On 8/31/20 9:06 PM, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi Uwe, all, Am 29.08.20 um 06:39 schrieb Uwe Altmann: Hi Andreas Am 28.08.20 um 08:18 schrieb Andreas Mantke: (...) b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first sentence in the statutes § 12? This seems only of interest in case a member of the BoD wants to get a member of the MC to prevent or influence a pending lawsuit against himself. It is surely desirable to have prevented such a possibility by our statues - but nothing is perfect. And some kind of self-commitment will not prevent such a case. On the other hand the time schedule of the board and mc elections is a bit cumbersome for such an operation. Maybe a look into the second sentence of § 12 is also of interest here. The MC initiate and supervise the board elections. a) Could lead to a conflict of interest? It is hard to say 'never' to such things with many aspects, but I can't think of a general case right now. One needs to resign from the MC before nominating for the BoD elections, and he/she is out of the MC loop immediately. And it is no longer possible to have an effect on the election process any more. b) Is not showing solidarity (if MC membership is canceled or suspended), because more work on less shoulder? It depends. In terms of the number of the MC members, role of the resigning member etc. But I wouldn't expect it to have any significant effect on the process of the BoD elections. It is mostly an automated/technical process. Regards, Muhammet Regards, Andreas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Hi Andreas, On 8/28/20 9:18 AM, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi, I have two first questions to the candidates: a) regarding the mission of the MC (§ 12 of the statutes) have you already participated in board calls during the last two years as external (non-member)? Yes, a few times. But I usually skim through the minutes, and read the interesting (to me, as a member of BoT & MC) parts in detail. b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first sentence in the statutes § 12? Didn't think about it specifically before, but after checking the statutes again based on your question, and reading through some of the replies, Uwe's take makes sense to me. Regards, Muhammet Regards, Andreas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Re: Short Résumé (was: Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates)
On September 3, 2020 11:59:14 AM PDT, Andreas Mantke wrote: >Hi all, > >a short résumé: > >a) there are 13 candidates for the MC elections and only 8 are >able/willing to answer two short questions. > >Many thanks to all of this eight candidates to take your time and give >your personal view! > > >b) TDF currently has 221 members and none of them asked any question to >the candidates! > >That's something to think long and hard about. What does this mean to >the democratic culture of the foundation. It was created to get the >members / contributors a voice and a say. This is something we have a bit of a problem of in the Arch Linux community as well when a community member applies to become a Trusted User (i.e. a packager in the [community] repository). Existing TUs vet the applicant's package quality and fitness. Sometimes barely any discussion comes during the two-week discussion period. I am guilty of letting this slide as well. We have not really solved the problem past the occasional reminder of our duties. I think this problem is more generally one of doing thankless, "minor" - yet important - work in volunteer communities. I do not pretend to know how to solve this for everyone. Personally, I find that an occasional reminder of my duties in my occupied post keeps the easily-forgotton tasks somewhat near the front of my brain. I would be happy to discuss general topics with all my friends, such as our opinions of TDF's strengths and weaknesses to encourage a healthy stir of the pot. But I encourage community members to ask questions or voice their opinion! Voters possibly already know the candidates well enough that questions don't add any value to an already-formulated opinion. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] Re: Short Résumé (was: Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates)
Hi all, a short résumé: a) there are 13 candidates for the MC elections and only 8 are able/willing to answer two short questions. Many thanks to all of this eight candidates to take your time and give your personal view! b) TDF currently has 221 members and none of them asked any question to the candidates! That's something to think long and hard about. What does this mean to the democratic culture of the foundation. It was created to get the members / contributors a voice and a say. Regards, Andreas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Hi Andreas, Thank you for your question. > a) regarding the mission of the MC (§ 12 of the statutes) have you > already participated in board calls during the last two years as > external (non-member)? I participated in it about two times. I usually read the minutes later. > b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being > a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first > sentence in the statutes § 12? In my opinion, there is no need to change the current rules, unless MC has been suffering from a shortage of members for some time. If the shortage of MC members due to resignation is a problem, I think it is better to increase the capacity of MC. Because resignations occur for a variety of reasons, not just for running for elections in BoD. Best regards, Shinji 2020年8月28日(金) 15:19 Andreas Mantke : > > Hi, > > I have two first questions to the candidates: > > a) regarding the mission of the MC (§ 12 of the statutes) have you > already participated in board calls during the last two years as > external (non-member)? > > b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being > a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first > sentence in the statutes § 12? > > Regards, > Andreas > > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org > Problems? > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy > -- Shinji Enoki shinji.en...@gmail.com -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Il giorno ven 28 ago 2020 alle ore 08:18 Andreas Mantke ha scritto: > Hi, > > I have two first questions to the candidates: > Thank you for asking and thus giving the opportunity to express our opinions. > > a) regarding the mission of the MC (§ 12 of the statutes) have you > already participated in board calls during the last two years as > external (non-member)? > > I did, now and then, but my daily job doesn't leave me so much spare time, particularly during the day, as I haven't a fixed place / office to work, but most of the time I go all day round to my clients. And that's why I've never ran for BoD. b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being > a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first > sentence in the statutes § 12? The "diving" or jumping from MC to BoD is something I've never liked too much. In particular that led several times MC to run out of deputies, and for this reason I asked and obtained to have 4 of them in MC, which could look like a big number, compared to the number of full members (5), but facts demonstrated that I was right. I perceived this behaviour in the past as a kind of betrayal against the members who voted to have a member in charge for that role for the whole 2 years of a term, but lately I understood that at the end MC is also a way to get more in contact with TDF's core government and to learn how things work in it, so it's almost natural to serve in MC and then go to BoD. Obviously it would be much better to complete a term and then wait for next BoD elections, giving also the opportunity to "cool down", lowering the risk of an uncomfortable situation where the "controllers" (MC) may have to weigh and decide about or against a person who used to be among them. Moreover a cool down period helps to have a better objective and distant perspective on TDF, but still having a deeper experience to understand and judge, from my point of view. On the other hand everyone is free to resign whenever they want from MC. Let's say that this is an interesting point that could be put on a To Do List to be discussed by the BoD as part of a possible bylaw, which could include some more points. I hope to have replied in a satisfactory way, but I'm obviously available for more possible clarifications. --- Gabriele Ponzo Regards, > Andreas > > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org > Problems? > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: > https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy > >
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
On 28.08.2020 08:18, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi, Hello Andreas, I have two first questions to the candidates: first of all, let me say thanks for dedicating your time to the Project and for asking these questions. a) regarding the mission of the MC (§ 12 of the statutes) have you already participated in board calls during the last two years as external (non-member)? After the end of my term as board member (February 19th 2020) I had the chance to join the public part of the board calls only two times. Unfortunately the call was conflicting with other calls related to my daily job. For staying updated on what is going on at TDF I'm reading the public minutes, the information shared on this list and on the internal member list. If I'll be elected I'll adjust my calendar trying to keep the board call slot available for having the chance to directly attend the public part of the board calls. b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first sentence in the statutes § 12? Our statutes don't require a "cooling period" before joining one of the governing bodies. I agree with Dennis that an elected member of the MC should remain in charge until the end of the term, avoiding to step-down after having the confirmation of being elected in the Board of Directors. I can see in this "habit" several negative effects like: a) the Board of Trustees elected that member for fulfilling the duties of the Membership Committee for a two years term; b) leaving the MC role for jumping in the controlled body could lead to a conflict being that person the "controller" and than the "controlled"; c) leaving the Membership Committee for joining the other body will reduce the number of available MC members taking care of the important responsibility the MC has. Please, let me know if this clarifies your questions. Have a nice evening, Marina -- Marina Latini IRC: deneb_alpha on Freenode -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Hi Uwe, all, Am 29.08.20 um 06:39 schrieb Uwe Altmann: > Hi Andreas > > Am 28.08.20 um 08:18 schrieb Andreas Mantke: > > (...) >> b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being >> a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first >> sentence in the statutes § 12? > This seems only of interest in case a member of the BoD wants to get a member > of the MC to prevent or influence a pending lawsuit against himself. > It is surely desirable to have prevented such a possibility by our statues - > but nothing is perfect. And some kind of self-commitment will not prevent > such a case. > On the other hand the time schedule of the board and mc elections is a bit > cumbersome for such an operation. > Maybe a look into the second sentence of § 12 is also of interest here. The MC initiate and supervise the board elections. a) Could lead to a conflict of interest? b) Is not showing solidarity (if MC membership is canceled or suspended), because more work on less shoulder? Regards, Andreas -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
On 2020-08-28 08:18, Andreas Mantke wrote: Hi, I have two first questions to the candidates: a) regarding the mission of the MC (§ 12 of the statutes) have you already participated in board calls during the last two years as external (non-member)? I attended to ask questions with others about TDC as I struggled with the slide deck/proposal documents. It was made clear during that call that non-board personnel were pesky to board members (exemplified on the mailing list later [1]) so I stopped engaging. It is my hope that the board can approach conflict with a more patient and empathetic way - we mortals care about the project, too. (N.B. This is not to single out one individual or to cast shade upon all of the board as a whole. Some - notably mmeeks - engaged in a very thoughtful, patient manner.) b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first sentence in the statutes § 12? Good question! I share Dennis' view - leaving an appointed post to go up the ladder seems unhelpful. A post should enjoy the talents of the person occupying it until commitment cessation. If the MC exists merely as a stepping stone to political gain in the BoD then a more fundamental problem needs examination. [1] Message-id: signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
a) No, but I read the minutes when I am free. b) For me, I don't think we need cooling down time for this, but if most of our members consider that we need it, I will not be against it. Regards, Jeff Huang Andreas Mantke 於 2020年8月28日 週五 下午2:19寫道： > Hi, > > I have two first questions to the candidates: > > a) regarding the mission of the MC (§ 12 of the statutes) have you > already participated in board calls during the last two years as > external (non-member)? > > b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being > a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first > sentence in the statutes § 12? > > Regards, > Andreas > > > > -- > To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org > Problems? > https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ > Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette > List archive: > https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ > Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy > >
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Hi Andreas! On Fri, Aug 28, 2020 at 3:19 AM Andreas Mantke wrote: > Hi, > I have two first questions to the candidates: > a) regarding the mission of the MC (§ 12 of the statutes) have you > already participated in board calls during the last two years as > external (non-member)? > No, attending the BoD meeting isn't usual for me. In general because of the time zone difference and because my collaborative time is almost all occupied in working with the mcm-script (I mean handle applications and renewals to prepare them for voting by all MC members). But I read the minutes and, when I have some questions, I ask other MC members or directly a BoD member. b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being > a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first > sentence in the statutes § 12? > Interesting question. It could be in our statutes but, on the other hand, jumping from one body to another isn't automatic. We have mature and clear elections in the middle. It gives to the members enough time to ask and discuss the proposals and profiles of the candidates. So, as the members have the final word, I'm ok with our current process. Regards, Gustavo. Regards, > Andreas > -- Gustavo Buzzatti Pacheco, member of the Membership Committee The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint My local Time: UTC-03:00 / CET-04:00
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Hi Andreas, Am 28.08.2020 um 08:18 schrieb Andreas Mantke: > Hi, > > I have two first questions to the candidates: > > a) regarding the mission of the MC (§ 12 of the statutes) have you > already participated in board calls during the last two years as > external (non-member)? Yes, I was regularly in the calls (well as long as my work allowed it) as you can read in the meeting minutes and also asked some critical questions. ;-) > b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being > a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first > sentence in the statutes § 12? We have seen in the past many people stepping down in the MC to get part of the next BoD. As you're German: that has some "Geschmäckle" (it is shady). My personal opinion is that you should not step down to get into another body. You got voted in and thus you might simply wait and do not rerun for the same body. A longer "cooling down" period (say 3 years) is unnecessary in my opinion. As Uwe already pointed out: regarding some law suit: this seem very hypothetically although the statutes were well balanced written for good reasons and the statutes are not easily changeable by German law. > Regards, > Andreas Best regards, Dennis Roczek signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Hi Andreas Am 28.08.20 um 08:18 schrieb Andreas Mantke: > a) regarding the mission of the MC (§ 12 of the statutes) have you > already participated in board calls during the last two years as > external (non-member)? Yes, I did. mostly because I try to help in the discussion of a business entity. > b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being > a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first > sentence in the statutes § 12? This seems only of interest in case a member of the BoD wants to get a member of the MC to prevent or influence a pending lawsuit against himself. It is surely desirable to have prevented such a possibility by our statues - but nothing is perfect. And some kind of self-commitment will not prevent such a case. On the other hand the time schedule of the board and mc elections is a bit cumbersome for such an operation. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
