Re: France's influence
> JDG wrote: > > > > Thus, despite our colloquial > > speech, the US, the UK, and the Netherlands > > are republics, not democracies. Alberto Monteiro wrote: > > If you want to nitpick, I would restrict UK and the > Netherlands to republics. The USA would be an > _empire_, because it's a coalition of republics under > an Emperor :-) > That takes a great deal of stretching to even get anywhere close to being an accurate description of U.S. Government, even though much of U.S. history is about the effort to manifest our destiny. ;-) -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Name-dropping (was: Corrected French history)
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jon Gabriel
...
> Kim Basinger
Hmmm... Having been on a set where she was working ("The Marrying Man"), I
have to have my doubts about this.
> Jon
> You meet a very wide variety of people working in publicity and living
> in New York Maru
Oh -- P.R. Now I understand.
Nick
___
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RE: Name-dropping (was: Corrected French history)
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Reggie Bautista > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 11:29 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Name-dropping (was: Corrected French history) > > >From: John Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >On Tuesday, March 18, 2003, at 01:29 PM, Bryon Daly wrote: > >>Doug Pensinger wrote: > >>>Deborah Harrell wrote: > >>> > Hey! Since I met Olympic equestrians Karen and David > O'Connor this weekend past, AND their medal-winning > Irish thoroughbreds Giltedge and Custom Made, can I > now drop names too?! > > >>>I met Moe in third grade. > >> > >>I met Leonard Nimoy once. And Bill Gates, too. But not at the same > time. > >> > >>-bryon > > > >Bobby Kennedy shook my hand when he ran for the Senate from New York at a > >rally in my neighborhood; > >I met Mohammed Ali, got his autograph, and lost it; > >Went to high school with Al Roker. > > > >john I've never tried to tally a list of celebs I've met or been introduced to. In no particular order: Bart Conner Sophia Loren Lauren Bacall Matt Lauer Katie Couric Al Roker Paula Zahn Connie Chung Maury Povich Helen Thomas Marina Sirtis Candace Bergen Stephen Rea Meredith Viera Tracy Ullman Julia Roberts Louis Malle Gloria Estefan Shalom Harlow Leonard Nimoy William Shatner Deforest Kelley Anna Nicole Smith Lili Taylor Kim Basinger Patrick Stewart Jonathan Frakes Armin Shimmerman Tom Bergeron Dave Letterman Chris Kattan Elizabeth Hurley Lea Salonga Salma Hayak Paul Reiser Ray Romano Talia Shire Ray Walston Amber Valletta Art Bell (by phone only, not in person) Mayor David Dinkins Mayor Ed Koch Sharon Stone Michael J. Fox Rosie O'Donnell Regis Philbin Kathie Lee Gifford Jerry Seinfeld Jason Alexander Estella Warren Sigourney Weaver Conan O'Brien Tom Snyder Cindy Crawford Michael Bolton Walter Cronkite Ivanka Trump Ivana Trump Donald Trump Christy Turlington Christy Brinkley Al Gore Tipper Gore Karenna Gore Heidi Klum Tyra Banks Avery Brooks Denise Crosby Star Jones Barbara Walters Peter Jennings Ed Bradley Jack Cafferty Kevin Bacon John Candy (actually, about six months before he died.) :( Lisa Ling Tom Brokaw Tom Clancy Dan Rather Anouk Aimee Issey Miyake Naomi Campbell Jean Paul Gaultier Melissa Gilbert Sara Gilbert Hank Azaria Oribe Carol Alt Carre Otis Sting Linda Evangelista Mike Starr Stephanie Seymour Nadia Auermann Anna Wintour Queen Latifah Rebecca Romijn Stamos Soon-Yi Previn Woody Allen Claudia Schiffer Milla Jovovich Eva Herzigova Uma Thurman Dick Wolf Joe Pesci Ricki Lake Bill Clinton Hillary Clinton Robert DeNiro David Hyde Pierce Gordon Elliot Mayor Rudolph Giuliani Donna Hanover William Buckley Colin Powell Edward Woodward I've probably forgotten meeting more people than I've listed here... but am sure I could dig up more if I thought on it. Jon You meet a very wide variety of people working in publicity and living in New York Maru ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Name-dropping (was: Corrected French history)
- Original Message - From: "Nick Arnett" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 9:12 PM Subject: RE: Name-dropping (was: Corrected French history) > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Behalf Of John Garcia > > ... > > > Went to high school with Al Roker. > > Some things are better left unsaid. Such as the fact that I worked at the > same radio station as Jeff Christie. Luckily, our tenures failed to > overlap. Of course, y'all probably know him better by the name he adopted > later -- Rush Limbaugh (the name his parents gave him). Wish I could say > that I wasn't listening to him in those days, but I'm afraid I was, between > the songs. By the time I got there, the station had gone to all-news and > nobody remembered Jeff whatshisname until he resurfaced. > My father in law went to high school with him in Cape Geraldo. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Name-dropping (was: Corrected French history)
From: John Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> On Tuesday, March 18, 2003, at 01:29 PM, Bryon Daly wrote: Doug Pensinger wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Hey! Since I met Olympic equestrians Karen and David O'Connor this weekend past, AND their medal-winning Irish thoroughbreds Giltedge and Custom Made, can I now drop names too?! I met Moe in third grade. I met Leonard Nimoy once. And Bill Gates, too. But not at the same time. -bryon Bobby Kennedy shook my hand when he ran for the Senate from New York at a rally in my neighborhood; I met Mohammed Ali, got his autograph, and lost it; Went to high school with Al Roker. john I went to UMKC (University of Missouri at Kansas City) and sang in Heritage Chorale for two years with Nathan Granner, who is now making a name for himself as one of the 3 "American Tenors" who have a special currently running on PBS fund drives as well as a CD and DVD. In fact, for about half a semester, he and I stood side by side in choir (although I'm definitely not a tenor). In addition to the American Tenors gig, he also is a guest vocalist on a CD by a group called Tango Lorca, and I hear rumors that he has other CD projects in the works. My mom and dad both went to high school with Ed Asner, and he and Dad were pretty good friends back then. Asner still goes to the high school reunions sometimes, and he and dad spend some time catching up with each other. (By the way, as far as I'm concerned, Asner's voice is the *definitive* voice for J. Jonah Jameson, who he voiced in the 1990's animated Spider-Man series. Asner has been very good on tv and in movies, but some of his best work has been as a voice-over artist for various cartoons such as Gargoyles, Animaniacs, Johnny Bravo, The Wild Thornberrys, and Batman. And Spider-Man.) Oh, and I met Majel Barrett Roddenberry when she was on a publicity tour during the first season of Earth: Final Conflict. I got her autograph but it got ruined by a leak during a bad rainstorm. I could probably add some composers/teachers, but they're not names that are famous outside of certain circles (Koonce, Mobberley, Constantinides, Adler, Ehly, Martin...) I can't wait to see Nick's list... :-) Reggie Bautista _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Children Of Dune - A brief review
Wow! Now that was much better than the first miniseries. The drama aspect seemed quite a bit less forced and more true to life. The angst aspect of The Prophet and his and his anger with the cult of Mua'dib seemed honest. I really liked that they were able to get the basic message that is the theme of God-Emperor Of Dune incorporated at the end. I would call this one more successful than the first. xponent Bow For The Heroes That They Might Kiss Your Butt Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Name-dropping (was: Corrected French history)
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of John Garcia ... > Went to high school with Al Roker. Some things are better left unsaid. Such as the fact that I worked at the same radio station as Jeff Christie. Luckily, our tenures failed to overlap. Of course, y'all probably know him better by the name he adopted later -- Rush Limbaugh (the name his parents gave him). Wish I could say that I wasn't listening to him in those days, but I'm afraid I was, between the songs. By the time I got there, the station had gone to all-news and nobody remembered Jeff whatshisname until he resurfaced. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
--- John Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > john > > ps good luck to your friend. John - thanks. He'll need it - but his enemies will need it a lot more. A different USAF pilot described him to me as someone who would cause "the Red Baron to his pants if he found out they were in the same air space." I believe it. Quite an introduction :-) From everything about Boyd that I've read, they would actually have something in common, except that he's a really nice guy and Boyd, well, wasn't. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
On Tuesday, March 18, 2003, at 08:59 PM, Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- John Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Boyd is a fascinating man, and I plan to read Robert Coram's biography of Boyd after Waging Modern War by Wesley Clark. john I'm not a big fan of Wes Clark's, but I am looking forward to the Coram bio. I have to ask my USAF friend what he thinks of Boyd - I'll tell you what he says. Of course, his aide just told me he was "TDY", so I have a feeling he might be, umm, occupied right now. Gautam Clark was (and is) controversial. I do want to read his side of the story. By all means let me know what your AF friend thinks of Boyd. He's highly regarded in the Marine Corps. john ps good luck to your friend. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Name-dropping (was: Corrected French history)
On Tuesday, March 18, 2003, at 01:29 PM, Bryon Daly wrote: Doug Pensinger wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Hey! Since I met Olympic equestrians Karen and David O'Connor this weekend past, AND their medal-winning Irish thoroughbreds Giltedge and Custom Made, can I now drop names too?! True But A Bit Sleep-deprived Maru :) I met Moe in third grade. I met Leonard Nimoy once. And Bill Gates, too. But not at the same time. -bryon Bobby Kennedy shook my hand when he ran for the Senate from New York at a rally in my neighborhood; I met Mohammed Ali, got his autograph, and lost it; Went to high school with Al Roker. john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
On Monday, March 17, 2003, at 11:30 PM, Reggie Bautista wrote: John Garcia wrote: I recently read a paper by an associate of John Boyd outlining what a military force organized on his principles of strategy would look like. ... What I can glean from the public statements made by our strategists, the plan is to get inside the Iraqi's "decision cycle" (the OODA loop: Observe, Orient, Decide, Act) by setting up multiple threats in different areas. When Saddam reacts to one of those threats, he will be weakened in some other area, and our opportunities in that area will be enhanced. Also, there is a strong element of psywar involved in 4GW, and I believe we can see some evidence of this in the President's appeals to Iraqi troops to not resist, and in the general's statements about how we will have instructions for any Iraqi force that wants to on how to make itself a non-target. It's a bold concept, requiring among other things, total battlespace awareness and troops who can quickly seize unforeseen opportunities. As a person who's pretty new to the whole concept of 4th generation warfare, this sounds to me a little like Ender's Dragon army in _Ender's Game_ by Orson Scott Card, especially the last part about quickly seizing unforseen opportunities and total battlespace awareness. Is it reasonably fair to say that Ender's strategies might be described as 4GW? My background includes very little history of military tactics, and I'm just trying to get a handle on 4GW using any comparison that I can get my hands on and understand pretty easily... Reggie Bautista Disclaimer: I am not an expert on military or national strategy. I just read a lot. Here is a working definition of 4th Generation Warfare (4GW) from a paper presented at a 4GW conference: 4GW encompasses attempts to circumvent or undermine an opponent’s strengths while exploiting weaknesses, using methods that differ substantially from an opponent’s usual mode of operations. If we accept the definition above, then certainly the tactics used by Ender in Ender's Game would fall under 4GW. Even more so since IIRC, Ender was still an adolescent when he planned his "battles" (which in his reference frame were "games"), and (presumably) his opponent was adult. This would certainly be a method that differs substantially from an opponent's usual mode of operations. Now that I think of it, Gordon Dickson's Childe Cycle contains 4GW battles in the books Tactics of Mistake, and the short story collection, Spirit of Dorsai. In Spirit of Dorsai, a planet's population defeats an occupying army, even though the planet's fighting forces are all off planet. If you' re feeling like digging deeper, start with Sun Tzu's classic The Art of War. john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
Jeroen wrote: > >BTW, yesterday something happened in The Netherlands that made the country >look like a democracy in the literal meaning of the word -- the government >made a decision based on the will of the people. The Netherlands finally >did the right thing, and announced that it will not give any military >support to the war against Iraq, because it was not supported by the people >of The Netherlands. > It's these kind of emotional and irrational decisions by the people themselves instead of a small number of elected (ideally) ubermenschen that make me thing that a (pure) Republic is better than a (pure) Democracy. A Good Dictator is a Dead Dictator Maru Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
--- John Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Boyd is a fascinating man, and I plan to read Robert > Coram's biography > of Boyd after Waging Modern War by Wesley Clark. > > john I'm not a big fan of Wes Clark's, but I am looking forward to the Coram bio. I have to ask my USAF friend what he thinks of Boyd - I'll tell you what he says. Of course, his aide just told me he was "TDY", so I have a feeling he might be, umm, occupied right now. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
On Monday, March 17, 2003, at 10:37 PM, Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- John Garcia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I recently read a paper by an associate of John Boyd outlining what a John, If you could tell me how to get a copy of that paper, or post it, or a URL, or something like that, I would greatly appreciate it. I've never been able to get a copy of one of Boyd's legendary briefings. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l For you, Gautam, and for others who may be interested, go to http://www.d-n-i.net/index.html. From there, you can go to Fourth Generation Warfare page where you can download a number of files including some of Boyd's briefings in PDF format. Boyd is a fascinating man, and I plan to read Robert Coram's biography of Boyd after Waging Modern War by Wesley Clark. john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: High School Yearbook Photos
--- Jon Gabriel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > God I look awful. > > Note to self: Get haircuts more frequently. > > Jon Really? I thought it was a pretty good picture of me... Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: High School Yearbook Photos
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Robert Seeberger > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 8:23 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: High School Yearbook Photos > > In a frenzy of digitizing, major Yearbook > publishers have built a Free database of > Yearbook pix, from 1975 to 2002. Find yours! > http://www.worldschoolphotographs.com/ > > >From all over the world!!! > > xponent > Many Ha Ha's Maru > rob God I look awful. Note to self: Get haircuts more frequently. Jon GSV And Shave. Must Shave. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
High School Yearbook Photos
In a frenzy of digitizing, major Yearbook publishers have built a Free database of Yearbook pix, from 1975 to 2002. Find yours! http://www.worldschoolphotographs.com/ >From all over the world!!! xponent Many Ha Ha's Maru rob You are a fluke of the universe. You have no right to be here. And whether you can hear it or not, the universe is laughing behind your back. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Blair's rebound begins
Gautam Mukunda wrote: > > The full speech text is at: > http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,11538,916789,00.html Wow. Brilliant. I could only wish Bush had given a similar speech, a few months ago. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ah...My Favorite Topic - Books (Was Question about Spoilers)
- Original Message - From: "Ronn!Blankenship" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 5:55 AM Subject: Re: Ah...My Favorite Topic - Books (Was Question about Spoilers) At 06:13 PM 3/18/03 +0900, G. D. Akin wrote: >I have all of these but something keeps jumping past them in my want to read >list. I've been putting off Delany because my one experience with him was >"Dahlgren" -- HATED IT! After many years of hearing comments on it, I finally heard from _one_ person who claimed to have read more than approximately the first 100 pages. In fact, he claimed to have actually finished the whole book. I read it through, twice, as a teenager and thought it was very "deep". Later went back to it again and couldn't figure out why I was so impressed. The same thing happened with Zelazny, although I still treasure certain of his work in my collection. Gene Wolfe, among others, has commanded a considerable amount of respect from me for quite a while (I mention that because someone (William?) at another point in this thread has The Claw of the Conciliator on a "to read" list, and I would heartily recommend the entire New Sun tetrad, *especially* if you're down to 20 reads a year). I never know, though, when I'm going to go back to something (I'm big on re-runs) and find my tastes have changed again. It always saddens me, because I remember how much fun it was back in the day. Tom ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
> > And didn't somebody point out France doesn't have much in the way of military force to project in the first place? HOW much help would they be anyway? > > > At current levels/rates of increase, I've heard it bandied about lately that the US defense budget will in a couple of years exceed the rest of the world's combined. Any allies we secure are there mostly for public relations. Conversely, if one purpose of this war is to give the US a bigger footprint in the region, the less allies the better. Oh... Hello, everyone! : ) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Blair's rebound begins
--- Bryon Daly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Gautam Mukunda wrote: >> Gautam, do you have a link to the full text of the > speech > somewhere? I'd love to read the rest of it. I > definitely > agree with your sentiments on Blair. > > Thanks, > -bryon The full speech text is at: http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,11538,916789,00.html Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Blair's rebound begins
Gautam Mukunda wrote: > Given who makes up the Labor MPs, I rather think he > did fine. His speech was marvelous - brilliant, > incisive, irrefutable. The money quote, for those who > think it was ever possible to bring France to a > compromise position on this issue: Gautam, do you have a link to the full text of the speech somewhere? I'd love to read the rest of it. I definitely agree with your sentiments on Blair. Thanks, -bryon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
Jon Gabriel wrote: > DC was targeted by Muslim terrorists before: the attack on the Pentagon, > where John *works* (did it completely escape your notice that if he had been > in another section of the building he works in he might have been killed > that day?) and the failed terror plane attack that was allegedly heading for > the White House. John is living and working in a severe-risk area of this > country. He works in a building that would be a _direct strategic target_ > during any armed conflict with this country. Actually, John doesn't work at the Pentagon. IIRC, the building he works at is on a *different* Metro line, even. (But I could be remembering incorrectly.) Either way, it's a bit away from the Pentagon. Not too far from the Capitol and White House, though, which are prime targets in and of themselves. And if you can't get close enough to either of *those* but you know which buildings are Federal buildings, you could probably blow *something* up, and there's a chance that his block could be targeted. And that would be a pity, because it probably would take out the place we had lunch, and I'd like to eat there *once* more before I die, at least. ;) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Israel's Secret Weapon
> From: Halupovich Ilana [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/correspondent/2841377.stm > > Vaanunu was kidnapped in Rome, not in London. Now if this > reporter could > not give *one* fact right, why should I think that other facts are > right? The article did say it happened in Italy: "After the Sunday Times published this scoop, Vanunu was lured to Italy and kidnapped by Mossad agents and illegally smuggled back to Israel." - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Blair's rebound begins
--- Richard Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Things aren't going so well for him in Parliament > though:: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2862325.stm > > Rich Given who makes up the Labor MPs, I rather think he did fine. His speech was marvelous - brilliant, incisive, irrefutable. The money quote, for those who think it was ever possible to bring France to a compromise position on this issue: We laid down an ultimatum calling upon Saddam to come into line with resolution 1441 or be in material breach. Not an unreasonable proposition, given the history. But still countries hesitated: how do we know how to judge full cooperation? We then worked on a further compromise. We consulted the inspectors and drew up five tests based on the document they published on 7 March. Tests like interviews with 30 scientists outside of Iraq; production of the anthrax or documentation showing its destruction. The inspectors added another test: that Saddam should publicly call on Iraqis to cooperate with them. So we constructed this framework: that Saddam should be given a specified time to fulfil all six tests to show full cooperation; that if he did so the inspectors could then set out a forward work programme and that if he failed to do so, action would follow. So clear benchmarks; plus a clear ultimatum. I defy anyone to describe that as an unreasonable position. Last Monday, we were getting somewhere with it. We very nearly had majority agreement and I thank the Chilean President particularly for the constructive way he approached the issue. There were debates about the length of the ultimatum. But the basic construct was gathering support. Then, on Monday night, France said it would veto a second resolution whatever the circumstances. Then France denounced the six tests. Later that day, Iraq rejected them. Still, we continued to negotiate. Last Friday, France said they could not accept any ultimatum. On Monday, we made final efforts to secure agreement. But they remain utterly opposed to anything which lays down an ultimatum authorising action in the event of non-compliance by Saddam. Just consider the position we are asked to adopt. Those on the security council opposed to us say they want Saddam to disarm but will not countenance any new resolution that authorises force in the event of non-compliance. That is their position. No to any ultimatum; no to any resolution that stipulates that failure to comply will lead to military action. So we must demand he disarm but relinquish any concept of a threat if he doesn't. From December 1998 to December 2002, no UN inspector was allowed to inspect anything in Iraq. For four years, not a thing. What changed his mind? The threat of force. From December to January and then from January through to February, concessions were made. What changed his mind? The threat of force. And what makes him now issue invitations to the inspectors, discover documents he said he never had, produce evidence of weapons supposed to be non-existent, destroy missiles he said he would keep? The imminence of force. The only persuasive power to which he responds is 250,000 allied troops on his doorstep. And yet when that fact is so obvious that it is staring us in the face, we are told that any resolution that authorises force will be vetoed. Not just opposed. Vetoed. Blocked. There are _no words_ to express my admiration for Blair - or Howard, Aznar, and the brave few world leaders who have decided to fulfill their responsibilities on this day. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Name-dropping (was: Corrected French history)
On Tuesday, March 18, 2003, at 06:29 pm, Bryon Daly wrote: Doug Pensinger wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Hey! Since I met Olympic equestrians Karen and David O'Connor this weekend past, AND their medal-winning Irish thoroughbreds Giltedge and Custom Made, can I now drop names too?! True But A Bit Sleep-deprived Maru :) I met Moe in third grade. I met Leonard Nimoy once. And Bill Gates, too. But not at the same time. -bryon I've met Walt Willis, BoSH, Dave Wood, Ken Slater, Vincent Clarke, James White and Chuck Harris. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who study history are doomed to repeat it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
The vote's in and...
The UK House of Commons have voted FOR supporting the Americans in an armed conflict. 149 votes against, which was less than I for one expected. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question on Israel
On 18 Mar 2003 at 16:23, Kevin Tarr wrote: > I'm worried about hidden forces in Syria. Don't. What Syria is NOT is stupid. Yes, there's been a virtual stalemate between Syria and Israel in diplomacy, but if it comes to a choice between the terrorists in Lebanon and preserving Syria, they'll pick Syria every time. I'm not that worried about the Syrian response. (beyond the inevitable diplomatic one) Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Blair's rebound begins
Gautam said: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,916466,00.html Things aren't going so well for him in Parliament though:: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2862325.stm Rich GCU Interesting Times ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Blair's rebound begins
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,916466,00.html __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
From: "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 21:45:34 +0100 At 16:33 17-03-03 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > What risk would that be? The only action he is involved in is posting > Bush-regime propaganda to a mailing list; what risks he is exposing > himself to by doing that (other than having his arguments shot to > barrels time and time again)? He lives in the DC area. With all those security measures in place, and with all that military hardware in position around DC, it is probably one of the safest urban areas in the country right now... Given all those security measures, chances are that I am taking more risk than him right now. Precedent. DC is a strategic target. You know, I'm rather surprised that an employee of the Dutch _Ministry of Defense_ would have difficulty with the concept of a 'strategic target', and suspect that you may be unsubtly trying to troll the Americans on this list again. But, in the spirit of trying to fill what may well be a perilous gap in the Dutch education system: (*sigh*) DC was targeted by Muslim terrorists before: the attack on the Pentagon, where John *works* (did it completely escape your notice that if he had been in another section of the building he works in he might have been killed that day?) and the failed terror plane attack that was allegedly heading for the White House. John is living and working in a severe-risk area of this country. He works in a building that would be a _direct strategic target_ during any armed conflict with this country. By your argument, American citizens in Juneau, Alaska should be horribly concerned because they are currently defenseless from Iraqi terror attacks. I'm sure they're not Juneau simply isn't a strategically valuable part of the country. The areas of the US that would be targeted in an attack are our capitol and certain key cities. New York is on the list and so is DC. The reason for this is that certain targets are more valuable than others. Attacking, say, Alaska would lack both shock and military value. And, you've already posted elsewhere that **nothing** can stop terrorist attacks. Heightened defenses will probably do nothing to stop a terror attack, and may not even stop a well-planned military one if it were fast enough. Considering all of these facts, please explain how you justify your opinion that JDG is in "...probably one of the safest urban areas in the country right now"? As far as I can see, that's a crock. As soon as Iraqis start saying "Kill the Dutch Infidels", and burning your flags and leaders in effigy I'm sure you'll have something to worry about. Since that doesn't seem to have happened yet, it seems infinitely more likely that your country isn't viewed as an important enough enemy of Iraq despite your support of the US. Let's see. The Netherlands is supporting the US, which makes it a potential target. I am stationed at an Army base that is the largest one in the southern part of the country, and which is home to an entire brigade. Adjacent to the base[*] there is a dual-purpose air field: part of it is in use as a regional civilian airport (Eindhoven Airport), with flights to and from cities all over Europe, and part of it is in use as an Air Force base (Welschap Air Force Base, the largest of the three Air Force bases in the south), which functions as a hub for much of Dutch military transport (both road and air transports). It is currently also being used by the US military for their air transports of troops and equipment to the Middle East. In a straight line, I only live a few kilometers from said locations. So, whether I am at work or at home, if the worst-case scenario happens (a nuclear attack), I'm history. Oh, but Hussein doesn't have weapons of mass destruction, right? So you have nothing to worry about! And since it's the American forces currently using your airbases that you have a problem with, don't worry. I'm sure the Iraqis don't understand what a strategic target is either. Jon _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Who is the sheriff?
> -Original Message- > From: Gautam Mukunda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 02:11 PM > To: Killer Bs Discussion > Subject: RE: Who is the sheriff? > > > > --- "Miller, Jeffrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> The Mongolian Defense? (Show an obvious weakness > to > > draw in your opponent, but be deployed to react to > > such a move) > > -j- > > > No, that involves superior tactical mobility, and > tactical mobility is one of the hallmarks of American > fighting forces. If _that's_ his approach, then we'll > already have exploited the weakness by the time he > realizes that the attack has begun. Mobility has nothing to do with it. -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Who is the sheriff?
--- "Miller, Jeffrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> The Mongolian Defense? (Show an obvious weakness to > draw in your opponent, but be deployed to react to > such a move) > -j- No, that involves superior tactical mobility, and tactical mobility is one of the hallmarks of American fighting forces. If _that's_ his approach, then we'll already have exploited the weakness by the time he realizes that the attack has begun. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Who is the sheriff?
> -Original Message- > From: Gautam Mukunda [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 01:45 PM > To: Killer Bs Discussion > Subject: Re: Who is the sheriff? > > > --- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > So, the next two days are important for this, right? > > If they start > > redeploying to Baghdad now, then the chances of > > doing this are greatly > > reduced. > > Yes, very much so. According to NPR this morning, > interestingly enough, Baghdad is _not_ being fortified. I > don't quite know what to make of that. The Mongolian Defense? (Show an obvious weakness to draw in your opponent, but be deployed to react to such a move) > It's one of mine, but not the worst. The urban > fighting they seem to have something of a handle on, > at least conceptually. _My_ nightmare scenario is > that as US troops get close to Baghdad, Saddam > releases VX on the population and proclaims that we > did. Or even smallpox. That's certainly on my list of nightmares. -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: RiverWorld (Spoilers)
> From: Matt Grimaldi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > It premiers on March 22 at 9PM ET/PT: > > http://www.scifi.com/onair/scifipictures/riverworld/ Thanks for the info. However, I'm not too hopeful. The following is my dissection of the summary on the website. OK. I'm being a bit pedantic as I'm a big fan but some of this is ridiculous... Spoiler space... (Not sure if it is needed but just in case.) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 >From the website: > Welcome to legendary author Philip José Farmer's Earthlike afterlife, > where people from every era have been reborn young and healthy - and > where an astronaut and a motley assortment of allies battle an ancient > Roman emperor and a Viking warlord for the soul of humanity. So far so good... > In the year 2009, a meteor shower above Earth claims the life of > astronaut Jeff Hale. He awakens in an ocean of jade-green > geodesic bubbles, as a mysterious cloaked figure pierces him with a pike. Who? OK. I guess it's OK that it's not Sir Richard Burton. I can handle that. I'm not so sure about the pike thing though. > Dazed and in pain, he soon finds himself crawling onto a beach > littered with canisters of clothing. Ah. I wondered how they would handle the nudity issue. In the books, the people were completely nude (and hairless) for several weeks (months?) after awakening. > Soon dozens of people from different lands and eras emerge from the water. Wait a minute. Emerge from the water? > Remarkably, they understand each other's language Huh? One of the most interesting things was the interaction of the various languages. OK. It's TV. I guess they'd have to do it that way. Too bad though. > all except for the lone Neanderthal man, who is killed by the ancient > Roman Lucius Domitus Ahenobarbus who became infamous under another name Ah, Kaz. It seems you are not destined to be in the movie for long... > Suddenly: hoofbeats! Horses? Horses? What? Other than making Debbie happy (:-), there aren't any land animals on the Riverworld!!! Certainly not horses. > The warlord Valdemar thunders in with an army, to announce that > he is the ruler of Riverworld Wait a minute. Everyone didn't wake up at the same time...? > and that the newcomers are to be soldiers, workers or slaves. > Soon Hale and a band of compatriots - among them the now beautiful > and young octogenarian Alice Liddell Hargreaves, a famous writer > and Mississippi riverboat captain named Samuel, concentration-camp > victim Lev Ruach, stunning African priestess Mali and the alien > Monat,who died on Earth - fight for their freedom and to learn the > secret of RIVERWORLD. I'm OK with most of these. Actually I think they are excellent choices of characters from the books to bring together. Too bad there's no Joe Miller though... - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > So, the next two days are important for this, right? > If they start > redeploying to Baghdad now, then the chances of > doing this are greatly > reduced. Yes, very much so. According to NPR this morning, interestingly enough, Baghdad is _not_ being fortified. I don't quite know what to make of that. > I did a websearch and the only thing I got was a > rocket that carried a > thermonuclear warhead. I'll be _very very_ upset > with you if this is what > you are talking about. :-) Not quite :-). Precision Guided Munitions, sorry. I just know that there's been a lot of thought about how to use close air support in an urban setting. I don't know much in the way of details, just that some of the USAF hard-core guys are all enthused at the concept. > That's my nightmare scenario. Day after day of the > US fighting urban > guerrillas, with civilian casualties on the nightly > news. > > Dan M. It's one of mine, but not the worst. The urban fighting they seem to have something of a handle on, at least conceptually. _My_ nightmare scenario is that as US troops get close to Baghdad, Saddam releases VX on the population and proclaims that we did. Or even smallpox. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question on Israel
Three points: I just heard there are reports that a few very trusted Republican guard units are getting vx tipped missles. I saw a person, I just caught the end so I have no idea who he was or what he's an expert in, say two things on TV the past weekend: he believes that Saddam already has up to nine nukes, mostly from russian black market, and some factory he visited was making missile body parts faster than ford makes cars, in the last year. Also the article in the Globe(?) that said Hussain is dead, died five years ago from cancer. His sons are running the country and using the fake Hussains as well just that, fake Husains. So I think Israel will be attacked, certainly Kuwait City , and probably Saudi Arabia but I don't know if they can reach a major city. I'm worried about hidden forces in Syria. I'm worried about it being bad, but I know we had no choice. Kevin T. - VRWC ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "J. van Baardwijk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > What risk would that be? > >He lives in the DC area. > > With all those security measures in place, and with all that military > hardware in position around DC, it is probably one of the safest urban > areas in the country right now... First question for you - do they have to irradiate the mail in your office because several people in *your* city have _died_ from anthrax? Didn't think so. Second question for you - has a terrorist ever tried to fly a jetliner into a building two blocks down the street from you, and the on the lawns of which you recently enjoyed a picnic lunch during your lunch break from work? That's what I thought. Third question for you, if a terrorist had a nuclear bomb where would the terrorist list my city of work and your city of work as a potential target. Uh huh. Fourth question for you, if a terrorist had a radiological, chemical, or biological weapon, where would the terrorist rate my list of work and your place of work as potential targets? Keep in mind that I walk through Washington DC's Union Station on my way to work each day. Yup. Sure thing, Mac. Given all of that, if you have an ounce of compassion in you, you'll understand that I am telling the truth when I say that even my own parents have told me that I should seriously consider quitting my job, because they are genuinely worried that I could die on any day... and that I had to tell them, "No, I am not quitting, because I love my city, and I love my country, and I'm not leaving because that would be letting the terrorists win - and that's the end of that discussion." So, look right here you sanctimonious son-of-a-bitch, I don't need you belittling the very real risks I take each day. I do not need your criticism of my choice to pass up jobs that could possibly pay me 25%-50% more than I am earning right now, while working in some town international terrorists have probably never heard of, because I find myself motivated to perform some sort of public service with my life to make this world a better place. You don't know my mind, and you don't know how prepared I am to die, should the unthinkable happen, simply because I am an employee of the greatest country in the history of civilization, the United States of America. Still, its no wonder that you oppose this war, because any asshole like yourself that could possibly believe that he is at more of a risk on some military base in the Netherlands than in the capitol of the free world must have been asleep on September 11th and is pretty clueless to boot. Anyhow, my insults aside, I recognize very well that you could not have written something so stupid unless you are either a moron or else intentionally trying to flame-bait me. And, I recognize, that I am now giving you *exactly* what you wanted. So, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Jeroen - quote the Etiquette Guidelines to me one more time! Who knows, maybe if you flame-bait me one more time, you might even get me moderated? Some people flame-bait by dropping f-bombs, and some people, like you, flame-bait by posting the ridiculous and insulting with a veneer of seriousness clothed in a sheep's-clothing of far-left- liberalism. I have hopes that someday everyone else on this List will realize that you post your ridiculous notions like this just to get everyone's goat, and maybe we can all devote more of our attentions to those great discussions we have on here that seem to enlighten us all. Well, I can hope. Anyhow, this was fun while it lasted, but I realize it is now time for me to boycott you again - since you remain fundamentally unserious about these discussions - and you are now succeeding once again in getting my goat. Bye, bye. JDG P.S. The Netherlands is still a republic! ;-) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
At 16:33 17-03-03 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > What risk would that be? The only action he is involved in is posting > Bush-regime propaganda to a mailing list; what risks he is exposing > himself to by doing that (other than having his arguments shot to > barrels time and time again)? He lives in the DC area. With all those security measures in place, and with all that military hardware in position around DC, it is probably one of the safest urban areas in the country right now... Given all those security measures, chances are that I am taking more risk than him right now. Let's see. The Netherlands is supporting the US, which makes it a potential target. I am stationed at an Army base that is the largest one in the southern part of the country, and which is home to an entire brigade. Adjacent to the base[*] there is a dual-purpose air field: part of it is in use as a regional civilian airport (Eindhoven Airport), with flights to and from cities all over Europe, and part of it is in use as an Air Force base (Welschap Air Force Base, the largest of the three Air Force bases in the south), which functions as a hub for much of Dutch military transport (both road and air transports). It is currently also being used by the US military for their air transports of troops and equipment to the Middle East. In a straight line, I only live a few kilometers from said locations. So, whether I am at work or at home, if the worst-case scenario happens (a nuclear attack), I'm history. [*]The air field is almost literally on the other side of the fence; all that separates the two fences is a local two-lane road. Jeroen "Make love, not war" van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
At 16:00 17-03-03 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > Then how would you describe countries like The Netherlands, Belgium, > the UK and Spain? These are all monarchies and they are all > democratic. Constitutional monarchies. They are not democracies because there is not a direct rule of the majority. When you use the literal meaning of "democracy", then you are correct; in fact, in that case there is probably not a single country in the world that qualifies as "democracy". However, if you use the more common meaning of democracy (a country with a government elected by the populace) then countries like The Netherlands and Belgium *are* democracies. BTW, yesterday something happened in The Netherlands that made the country look like a democracy in the literal meaning of the word -- the government made a decision based on the will of the people. The Netherlands finally did the right thing, and announced that it will not give any military support to the war against Iraq, because it was not supported by the people of The Netherlands. Unfortunately, the government continues to support the US politically. Oh well, we'll remember that when it's election time again... Jeroen "Make love, not war" van Baardwijk _ Wonderful-World-of-Brin-L Website: http://www.Brin-L.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Bible scholars rejoice at signs
From: Bryon Daly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Bible scholars rejoice at signs Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 02:22:28 -0500 Kevin Tarr wrote: > > I was going to post the story of the helium filled dolls and the woman > climbing out of her sunroof, but it's not a true story. Please do! I heard it a long time ago, and IIRC, it's quite funny. http://www.snopes.com/religion/rapture.htm Mistaken Rapture "I wasslowing down, but Georgann wouldn't wait till I stopped." Everett Williams told police after the death of his wife in a freak motoringaccident in Arkansas City. "We both saw Jesus at the side of the road, with what looked like twelve people slowly floating up into the air. She started screaming 'He's back! Jesus is back!' and we both thought that the rapture was happening. I tried to pull over, butshe wouldn't wait, because she was convinced Jesus was going to lift her upinto the sky, there and then. Before I could stop, she climbed right out of the sunroof crying'Take me Lord!', jumped off the car, and was run over by the car behind." Officer Paul Madison later explained precisely how the accident had happened. "What we have here is a case of mistaken rapture. It seems that a motorist,Ernie Jenkins, was on his way to a toga costume party, dressed as Jesus, withtwelve blow-up sex dolls filled with helium in his truck. The tarp coveringthe dolls came loose and they started floating into the air, so he stopped,got out, and tried to catch them. The Williams were driving past, saw Mr Jenkins with his arms raised high, assumedit was the Second Coming of Jesus, and Mrs Williams jumped to the wrong conclusion.And to her death. I tell you, this is the strangest thing I've seen since I'vebeen on the force." Asked to comment, Mr Jenkins replied: "This is all just too wierd for me. People have often told me I look like Jesus. That's why I thought I'd go to the party as Christ with His twelve disciples.I never expected anything like this to happen. I wish I'd gone as Nero instead." _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
30 Nations Publicly Join US Coalition, France May Yet Join Up
Those countries include: Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bulgaria, Colombia, the Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia, Hungary, Italy, Japan, the Rep. of Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, the FYR Macedonia, the Netherlands, Nicaragua, the Philippines, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, the UK, and Uzbekistan. Powell: 30 Nations Support U.S. on Iraq 2:50 PM EST,March 18, 2003 By BARRY SCHWEID, AP Diplomatic Writer WASHINGTON -- As the United States moved closer to war with Iraq, Secretary of State Colin Powell said Tuesday that 30 nations have declared varying levels of support and 15 others have given their backing privately. Most of the nations named by Powell would not have a combat role, but have allowed the United States to base troops on their soil and to let U.S. planes overfly their territory. Others have offered expertise in dealing with possible chemical weapons attacks. "We now have a coalition of the willing that includes some 30 nations who publicly said they could be included in such a listing," Powell said, "and there are 15 other nations, for one reason or another, who do not wish to be publicly named but will be supporting the coalition." Powell told reporters he had received assurances of open support in telephone conversations Tuesday from the foreign ministers of Denmark and the Netherlands, which were listed, but that Russian President Vladimir Putin had reaffirmed his opposition to war with Iraq in a telephone conversation with President Bush. But Powell said a mutual concern over terrorism and a planned reduction in nuclear weapons arsenals "pull us together, and I think we will have this disagreement and move on." At the same time, Powell said Iraqi President Saddam Hussein so far had rejected Bush's demand that he leave Iraq, but that a number of countries were still trying to persuade the Iraqi president to go into exile. "He has essentially dismissed the message," Powell said. Asked when the United States may go to war against Iraq, the former Army general said he had "learned long ago not to make predictions." The State Department released the list of 30 countries, one of which, Japan, was identified as only a post-conflict member of the coalition. Spokesman Richard Boucher said some of them "may put troops on the ground," while others would take on other roles, such as assisting in a defense against the use of chemical or biological weapons or permitting allied combat planes to fly over their territory. Boucher did not specify which countries would send troops to fight. But Britain is known to have contributed about 45,000 troops, Australia has offered 2,000 and Poland, 200. Albania has offered 70 soldiers for noncombat roles and Romania contributed 278 non-combat experts in demining, in chemical and biological decontamination and military police. No Arab country was listed by the State Department. But Boucher declined to say none supported the United States against Iraq. On the diplomatic front, Powell met with his senior staff on Tuesday as "we move into a new phase of diplomacy," Boucher said. The U.S. focus will be on the humanitarian situation and considering ways to assure food is distributed to the Iraqi people and that oil exports are continued after the war, Boucher said. The spokesman said the United States would seek a U.N. resolution to ensure food distribution. Turkey was included on the list, and Powell said even as the Turkish parliament debates a U.S. proposal to use Turkish territory for an invasion of northern Iraq he was confident of Turkish cooperation in one form or another. Powell also hinted that if the parliament accepts the U.S. proposal the Bush administration might revive its offer of $6 billion in special economic assistance. Powell said war plans have been drawn up designed to minimize Iraqi civilian casualties and to warn Iraqi commanders about their actions. He said the U.S. aim was "to make it as quick as possible." Powell also said he would not attend a U.N. Security Council meeting on Wednesday at which the chief U.N. weapons inspector, Hans Blix, is due to make a report. France and Russia, which opposed war and sought to extend inspections, have indicated they would be represented by their foreign ministers. But Powell said he saw no point in going, and that U.S. Ambassador John Negroponte would represent the United States. "It's not a question of the United States boycotting the meeting," Powell said. "It's just that I don't particularly see a need for me to go." Paris: We may help in chemical war Tuesday, March 18, 2003 Posted: 1:50 PM EST (1850 GMT) France could help despite opposition to military action, Chirac's ambassador says WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Despite French opposition to a war in Iraq, the French military could assist a U.S.-led coalition should Iraq use biological and chemical weapons against coalition forces, the French amb
RE: Who is the sheriff?
> From: Doug Pensinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Bush and Sharone are a lot of things but they aren't Nazis. > > > Of course not, the poster was obvious hyperbole, but not necessarily > anti-Semitic. How about we agree to disagree? I don't think I'm gonna change your mind and I'm not sure you are gonna change mine! - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Oval Office VS Cross Hall
When I was younger, I remember every important address to the Nation made by the current PotUS was made from the Oval Office (and started "My fellow Americans..") Does anyone have any insight on why last night's address was made from the Cross Hall? (I think that's where it was - I'm notoriously bad at identifying rooms in the White House - if its not on West Wing, I probably don't recognize it) -j- ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
- Original Message - From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 9:33 AM Subject: Re: Who is the sheriff? > --- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Given this assessment, it seems to me that we will > > need a bit of > > luck...unless the US has tricks up its sleeve that I > > can't begin to > > comprehend. Lets assume a reasonable worst case > > scenario for what we > > cannot control. The Republican guard decides to > > have a last ditch stand in > > Baghdad. It goes to ground, and locates in various > > buildings in Baghdad, > > say 50k strong spread through the streets of > > Baghdad. It uses children as > > runners for communications, and ambushes the US in > > such a manner that it is > > very difficult to separate civilians from the > > Republican Guard. The point > > will not be victory for Hussein, but to make the > > victory for the US as > > costly as possible. > > > > How can the US spectacularly and immediately win an > > urban war like this? > > > > Dan M. > > We _definitely_ need luck. There are two ways to win > that scenario. The first, and preferable one, is to > make sure that it doesn't happen. The battle plan > looks, to me, like something of a race. We're trying > to sprint to Baghdad before the Republican Guard can > redeploy and turn it into an urban battlefield. Our > airpower will be used to pin them down and slow their > movement while American armored forces try to meet and > annihilate them outside the city. This is possible. So, the next two days are important for this, right? If they start redeploying to Baghdad now, then the chances of doing this are greatly reduced. > If it _does_ get to city fighting, things get a lot > uglier. The Army has been thinking about this for a > long time, and they have plans using PGMs to hit city > strongpoints, and so on. I did a websearch and the only thing I got was a rocket that carried a thermonuclear warhead. I'll be _very very_ upset with you if this is what you are talking about. :-) >My guess is that in that > scenario Allied forces will surround the city, launch > lightning strikes to seize strategic positions, use > special operations raids and so on to destroy enemy > concentrations with minimal damage to surrounding > areas, and wait for Iraqi forces to dissolve. I > think. I honestly don't know, and I'm not thrilled > with this option. Change is _always_ a major factor > in warfare, in this one like any other. That's my nightmare scenario. Day after day of the US fighting urban guerrillas, with civilian casualties on the nightly news. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Allies to Face "Chemical Ali" in Basra
Allies Hope to Move Quickly to Seize City in Iraq's South By PATRICK E. TYLER NY TIMES http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/18/international/middleeast/18BASR.html?pagewanted=all&position=top KUWAIT CITY, March 17 One of the first major objectives in the war against Iraq will be to seize its largest southern city, Basra, and secure its port facilities and nearby oil fields. Officials say they are aiming for a rapid and "benign" occupation of Basra that results in flag-waving crowds hugging British and American soldiers all of which would create an immediate positive image of American and British war goals while undermining Iraqi resistance elsewhere in the country. But things rarely go as planned in war, and as the onset of conflict appeared imminent today, soldiers prayed and prepared to move. Everywhere a sense that the waiting was almost over was palpable among military units. This afternoon, soldiers of the Third Infantry Division's First Brigade Combat Team began packing up and dismantling parts of a mobile command center in the Kuwaiti desert. They packed their own bags, too. The division is to head for Baghdad and beyond. "You could call it relief, almost, that something is happening," said Capt. Andrew J. Valles, the brigade's civil-military operations officer. [In a further sign that military activity was rapidly speeding up, marines at the forward headquarters in Kuwait for the First Marine Division, which will lead the drive toward Baghdad, began on Tuesday morning to load their gear onto Humvees, trucks and other vehicles. There was a sense that they would not be returning to the base, Camp Matilda, anytime soon.] As a military objective, Basra, a largely Shiite Muslim city of more than one million people with no great affection for President Saddam Hussein's government, is thought to be vulnerable. The Iraqi military command has ordered all of its front-line divisions to pull back to defend Baghdad, officials said, leaving poorly trained and equipped garrison units to protect the port city and the oil fields that straddle the border region with Kuwait, just 40 miles south of Basra. The city is a key to Iraq's southern oil region. Not all of the signals suggest that it will fall easily. Last week President Hussein appointed the most notorious member of his inner circle, Ali Hassan al-Majid, to direct the defense of southern Iraq. Mr. Majid, known as "Chemical Ali," has been accused of war crimes for his use of mustard and nerve gases against the Kurdish population in northern Iraq in 1988. American officials are not certain whether Mr. Hussein appointed Mr. Majid, a close relative, to ensure that the restive Shiites of southern Iraq remained loyal to Baghdad, or whether Mr. Majid has been entrusted with executing a military strategy devised to blunt or undermine the American-British invasion. "We fully recognize his image and his track record," a military official said. One fear is that Mr. Hussein, by appearing to expose Basra to easy occupation, is preparing to surprise American and British forces by attacking them with chemical or biological weapons. "All I can tell you is that the marines will be wearing their chem suits," the official added, referring to the protective clothing and gas masks designed to protect soldiers from attacks with chemical or biological weapons. The fate of Basra is viewed as critical. "The first image of this war will define the conflict," said Maj. Chris Hughes, a Marine Corps spokesman. Military officials said the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit, under the command of the British Royal Marines, had been designated to take Basra. An early success, if secured, would inoculate the military to some extent against any setbacks that occur in Baghdad, where a powerful American army of tanks, mobile artillery and infantry will face down Mr. Hussein's most loyal and best armed Republican Guard divisions. The willingness of these Guard divisions to fight will determine in greatest measure the human cost of the war, military officials say. If Basra falls, American and British officials are planning to organize relief convoys of food and other aid that can roll into the city from depots positioned here and in Iranian cities that lie just east of Basra across the Shatt-al-Arab waterway. Soldiers will carry packets of food to pass out to children, and medics will provide care to Iraqis in need as the occupation forces roll in, military officials said. To speed the relief work, the Pentagon has dispatched a 60-member disaster response team that will enter the city with British and American troops. American officials said they had begun radio broadcasts and leaflet drops in and around Basra to notify residents that the attacking allied forces will use kid gloves in taking the city. They will avoid bombing electrical and other civilian infrastructure targets, the officials said, and are advising civilians that they will be safe in their homes and that there i
Re: Ah...My Favorite Topic - Books (Was Question about Spoilers)
William T Goodall wrote: > My list of authors I have never read a whole novel by consists of > Hemingway[2] + everybody else I was supposed to read at school...unless > they were a sf/fantasy/horror writer. I don't care for Hemmingway, either, based on the one book of his I did read - The Sun Also Rises. *Snore* The main point of the book seemed to be about people sitting around getting drunk. In my high school English class, the teacher wanted us to read Invisble Man, by Ralph Waldo Ellison. After we realized it wasn't the HG Wells story, I helped lead a class revolt against it and she picked a different book for us to read. Later, in college, I ended up having to read Invisible Man for a class, and I discovered it was a quite twisted, but excellent, book. So I still feel a bit guilty about that. -bryon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ah...My Favorite Topic - Books (Was Question about Spoilers)
"G. D. Akin" wrote: > I really enjoyed "Hyperion" (as well as the three sequels) and "A Deepness > in the Sky." I'd put the rest as average or below. I absolutely loved Hyperion (I'd rate it 10/10), but the series went downhill a bit from there, for me, (although, even the last book, my least favorite, was OK), My problem was the ending of the second Endymion book felt really rushed despite the book being rather long and slow-moving. Between that and the unanswered questions, I was a bit disappointed at how the series ended. -Bryon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
From: Bryon Daly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:47:20 -0500 iaamoac wrote: > Whenever I walk by there, I can't help but be astonished that it was > *only* 60 years ago - and yet it seems so absolutely unthinkable > today. Sure we can all talk about technological development over > the last century, but our ethical development is almost as awe- > inspiring - compared to ethical development over the previous range > of human history. I was just thinking along those lines myself, with how in WWII, cites seemed to be routinely targeted (ie: London bombings, Dresden firebombing, Hiroshima, etc), while most people today would be horrified by such targetting of civilians. I wonder though if this is an ethical/moral evolution to the feeling that civilians (even enemy ones) are non-combatant and should not be targeted, or is it just that recent wars just have not been desperate enough to change our opinion. I personally think that the new modern technological and cultural globalism has had a lot to do with this. I believe that war started to become unpopular in the 60's when television cameras brought the violence into our living rooms. We began seeing our enemies as 'just-like-us' human beings thanks to tv, newspapers and still photo cameras. The net has compounded this effect. I believe that this has changed our perception of war. Jon _ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Corrected French history (was RE: Deadlier Than War)
iaamoac wrote: > Whenever I walk by there, I can't help but be astonished that it was > *only* 60 years ago - and yet it seems so absolutely unthinkable > today. Sure we can all talk about technological development over > the last century, but our ethical development is almost as awe- > inspiring - compared to ethical development over the previous range > of human history. I was just thinking along those lines myself, with how in WWII, cites seemed to be routinely targeted (ie: London bombings, Dresden firebombing, Hiroshima, etc), while most people today would be horrified by such targetting of civilians. I wonder though if this is an ethical/moral evolution to the feeling that civilians (even enemy ones) are non-combatant and should not be targeted, or is it just that recent wars just have not been desperate enough to change our opinion. -bryon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, Bryon Daly wrote: > I just came across this article that explores Bush's ineffective diplomacy and > the reasons behind it, and had been debating whether to post it. > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-17-anti-diplomacy-usat_x.htm > Thanks. Here's another interesting one: http://slate.msn.com/id/2080262/ It speculates on what might have been if Bush's approach had more closely resembled his father's in Gulf I and Clinton's in Kosovo. Marvin Long Austin, Texas Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Poindexter & Ashcroft, LLP (Formerly the USA) http://www.breakyourchains.org/john_poindexter.htm ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
From: "Dan Minette" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Who is the sheriff? Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 11:04:26 -0600 - Original Message - From: "Julia Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:00 AM Subject: Re: Who is the sheriff? > "Horn, John" wrote: > > > > > From: Doug Pensinger [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Why? Hitler and Nazism symbolize more than the holocaust. I > > > associate > > > fascism, secret police and several other nasty things with > > > him and his > > > regime. > > > > > > I think it's in poor taste but not anti-Semitic. > > > > (It's taken me a long time to get a chance to answer this one...) > > > > It seems to me that 99 times out 100, when you see a swastica it is being > > used in either an anti-Semitic or racist manner and is being used to > > intimedate. > > In the US, certainly. In other parts of the world, no. Gotta keep these > things in context. > IIRC, the swastika used by the Nazis is unique. The Hindu symbol points in the opposite direction. I haven't read this entire thread yet, but this is inaccurate: I posted this link last Friday on the "Humor" thread (in response to Doug) :) http://www.indiaprofile.com/religion-culture/swastika.htm Excerpt: Surrounding their use of the image there exists a widespread misconception concerning the representation of the symbol. It is commonly thought that the motif of the Third Reich was an inverted swastika, a deviation from the original ancient design. The point needs clarification. Regardless of the swastika's configuration, i.e. right-angled or left-angled, the symbol's significance does not suffer; it merely indicates two opposing principles, evolution and dissolution. Jon GSV Clarification _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Name-dropping (was: Corrected French history)
Doug Pensinger wrote: > Deborah Harrell wrote: > > >Hey! Since I met Olympic equestrians Karen and David > >O'Connor this weekend past, AND their medal-winning > >Irish thoroughbreds Giltedge and Custom Made, can I > >now drop names too?! > > > >True But A Bit Sleep-deprived Maru :) > > > I met Moe in third grade. I met Leonard Nimoy once. And Bill Gates, too. But not at the same time. -bryon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
"Marvin Long, Jr." wrote: > And yet. I feel that this particular course of action, and this > particular timing, has pretty much been force-fed to the American people > by a propaganda campaign based on scanty facts and half-truths to convince > us all that Hussein presents to America the same degree of threat today > that al Qaeda presented on Sept. 10, 2001. I feel the object of an, "If > you can't blind 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshit" campaign. > Which in turn makes me feel that the options for creating a broader world > consensus for action existed and were deliberately discarded before they > were ever explored. Why? I just came across this article that explores Bush's ineffective diplomacy and the reasons behind it, and had been debating whether to post it. http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-17-anti-diplomacy-usat_x.htm Right or wrong, Bush stuck to his instincts By Judy Keen, USA TODAY, 3-17-03 WASHINGTON - More than any other episode in his presidency, the diplomatic battle at the United Nations over war with Iraq put President Bush's strengths and flaws on stark display. To the president, most issues are matters of right or wrong, good or evil. He has great faith in his own impulses: "I'm an instinct player," he once said in an interview. After he decides on a course of action, Bush moves forward with little vacillation or retrospection. Those who disagree are simply mistaken. Bush's friends consider those traits a sign of confident leadership. Vice President Cheney said Sunday on NBC's Meet the Press that he likes the idea of having a president who practices "cowboy" diplomacy. "He cuts to the chase, he is very direct, and I find that very refreshing," Cheney said. But Bush's critics say the president practices bulldozer diplomacy - arrogant, disrespectful and sometimes naive. "This administration has all the diplomatic subtlety of an Abrams tank," says Ted Galen Carpenter, a foreign policy analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute, a Washington think tank. "It tends to demand accommodation by other countries and it throws the foreign-policy equivalent of a temper tantrum when it does not get its way." In his unsuccessful effort to win U.N. Security Council approval of a new resolution paving the way for war with Iraq, Bush often ignored diplomatic protocol: Instead of hashing out disputes with longtime allies France, Germany and Russia behind closed doors, he publicly challenged them to a showdown that he seemed almost to relish. He tried to bully reluctant leaders, such as Mexican President Vicente Fox, an old pal from Bush's days as Texas governor, into joining him. Bush's aides were scornful of those who declined. Last week they openly mocked France, noting with sarcasm that it rejected a British compromise even before Saddam Hussein did. Bush embarrassed some countries, including Turkey, by failing to keep confidential his offerings of aid and other considerations in exchange for support. His undeterred march to war has already claimed diplomatic casualties. Bush's most steadfast ally, British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who led the battle for a U.N. resolution opening the door to war, faces strong objections and sinking approval ratings at home. Former British foreign secretary Robin Cook, the appointed Leader of the House of Commons, resigned from the British government Monday in opposition to Blair's push for war. Instead of establishing and sticking to a rationale for an unprovoked war with Iraq, Bush offered a shifting series of reasons and left the impression that he was searching for one that would close the sale. He started with the idea that the Saddam regime must be removed because of the threat of chemical and biological weapons, then moved on to Iraq's violations of its citizens' human rights, Saddam's supposed links to the al-Qaeda terrorist network, then argued that ousting Saddam would aid peace in the Middle East, and finally the imperative that the United States defend itself from the threat of Iraq-sponsored terrorism. He challenged the United Nations to prove its relevance by endorsing war with Iraq, then said he would go to war whether he got the endorsement or not. Only in the final week before the Security Council vote did Bush embark intently on diplomacy. By that point, most of his advisers had given up on an outright victory. They were hoping for the nine votes needed to pass a resolution, so that despite France's veto Bush could say a majority of the Security Council backed war. He choreographed a series of phone calls - his own and dozens by Secretary of State Colin Powell and national security adviser Condoleezza Rice - to the leaders of nations represented on the Security Council and other heads of state who might have influence over them. It was too late. By the en
Re: Ah...My Favorite Topic - Books (Was Question about Spoilers)
George wrote: I've been putting off Delany because my one experience with him was "Dahlgren" -- HATED IT! I'm afraid the two mentioned above will be more of the same. Nevertheless, I will eveentually read them. I've read _Dahlgren_ (and yes Ronn!, I actually read it all the way through :-), and although it had a few interesting ideas, most of it was dreck. However, some of Delany's other fiction is really top-notch. I particularly like _Nova_. Reggie Bautista _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [Humor] RE: Who is the sheriff?
From: Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [Humor] RE: Who is the sheriff? Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 22:49:48 -0600 "Ronn!Blankenship" wrote: > (And I bet some people are glad that no one brought up that *other* slang > meaning of "John" . . .) I was biting my tongue, figuratively speaking, actually. I figured that nobody here by that name would appreciate any smart-alecky remark I might make along those lines, and not wishing to get *all* of them upset at me, I refrained. :) Julia Thanks. :) Although I'd bet at least some of us have a sense of humor about it. :) Jon _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question on Israel
From: Alberto Monteiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Question on Israel Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 08:50:59 -0300 (EST) Gautam Mukunda asked: > > What happens when Saddam launches missiles filled with > VX at Israel? (...) > So, what do people on the list think Israel > should do? And what should the US do to try and > contain it? > I think Israel should wait, give some time, and if the allies don't root out Saddam and his gang, they should nuke Fra^H^H^H oops... Iraq. Nah, much more civilized to let the Americans drive the French ecomomy into the ground :) Jon _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
I was just wondering...isn't France (and the UN) now caught in a Catch-22? If the USA and Allies go to war with Iraq and do well won't we wonder WHY we have a UN? If the USA and Allies go to war with Iraq and don't do too well won't we BLAME the UN (and France) for not helping us? And didn't somebody point out France doesn't have much in the way of military force to project in the first place? HOW much help would they be anyway? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Burning Flags - B*siness Opp*rtunity!
I saw a picture of some arabs burning a mosaic of us, uk, au flags, and it made me thing about good business opportunities: selling au flags to arabs! They probably have already burned enough USA and UK flags not to bother to pay high prices for them, but I imagine an Australian flag would sell for much more that its value! Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Hegemoney Stuff
You wrote: A few people on the list have asked to read copies of my senior thesis on status competition in international relations. Unfortunately, I've managed to lose the list of people who did so. If anyone is still interested, could you drop me a line off-list and I'd be happy to send it to you? Sorry. I haven't asked for it before, but I'd love to read your senior thesis. I'm assuming you're sending it via email? If so please don't send mine to my hotmail address. Instead, send it to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanks a bunch, Reggie Bautista _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question on Israel
On 18 Mar 2003 at 12:11, Jon Gabriel wrote: > >Well - I'm not sure of the reaction, but Israel does (unlike in the > >Gulf war) have a missile defence system up which should block some of > >the incomming missiles. > > > >They have their own, fairly long ranged "arrow" missiles and the > >Americans have stationed several batteries of the (much upgraded) > >"patriot" missiles in Israel. > > I don't think the original system worked that well. Didn't some > missiles land in a major metropolitan area during the last Gulf War? > Even upgraded, I'm sure most Israelis aren't positive that the systems > will protect them. The origional system - in the Gulf War - frankly stank. The systems deployed now are a LOT better, and they've admited they'll not get all missiles fired at Israel anyway, but they should get SOME of them. Which is better than none. > > > >Israel also has a solid anti-gas doctrine, with (at times like this) > >a sealed room set up in each house, and there's also a pre-prepared > >bunker under every public and large building. > > > > IIRC, every family member usually also has a gas mask. > > There was a news story about a wife and kids who died a few days ago > in one of those sealed rooms. Not exactly a rousing sign of support > for such measures. :( Faulty heater, apparently. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Involvement
* Erik Reuter [Tue, 18/03/2003 at 08:09 -0500] > I asked for a few examples to back up your point. Perhaps I > misunderstood your point? If you agree with me that attacking terrorists > may create new terrorists, but overall it will create FEWER terrorists > than are eliminated, thus decreasing the total amount of terrorist > activity, then we don't really have anything to argue about. I completely agree with the above statement. However, to take a fictive example, if, in the process of eliminating a terrorist, we also kill (by mistake, misuse of power, etc) his 2 y.o. daughter in front of his 8 y.o. son. I firmly believe that whatever evil bastard was his father, whatever unjustified cause he was fighting for, the son will never rest until retaliation. -- Jean-Marc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question on Israel
From: "Andrew Crystall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Question on Israel Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:36:08 - On 17 Mar 2003 at 19:35, Gautam Mukunda wrote: > OK list-members. > While I'm using this to evade finishing up work (it's > only 10:30 - why would I be in a hurry to go home?) > here's my current (among many) nightmare scenario. > > What happens when Saddam launches missiles filled with > VX at Israel? Israel is unlikely to fail to defend > itself this time, as it did in 1991, under any > circumstancse. Israel is likely to have a > particularly strong reaction to poison gas. I would > rate the chances that they would not retaliate against > such a launch in some way to approach zero. When they > do so, the Arab world is likely to go nuts. To put it > mildly. So, what do people on the list think Israel > should do? And what should the US do to try and > contain it? Interestingly enough, If Hussein uses WMD, it proves President Bush's point, i.e. that he has them in his possession and justifies our war effort. I think if Hussein uses VX gas, all bets are off. Not even Muslim extremists could justify Israel's not defending itself against a weapon deployed to kill their civilian population in such a horrible manner. I also think that the reaction from the Arab world would be interesting, since large numbers of Muslim and ethnic arab Palestinians would also be killed in such an attack. I do think that Israel should retaliate in such an event, but not to "save face," as JDG suggested. I think the response should be one using conventional weapons targeting military installations, Hussein's palaces and Hussein himself. If Israel responds by killing the Iraqi masses then they have, on some level, justified Iraq's weapons deployment against Israeli citizens. Let them announce that they are going to avoid butchering Iraqi civilians in response to an attack designed to butcher Israeli citizens and, I believe, the Arab world would probably respect them for it. Well - I'm not sure of the reaction, but Israel does (unlike in the Gulf war) have a missile defence system up which should block some of the incomming missiles. They have their own, fairly long ranged "arrow" missiles and the Americans have stationed several batteries of the (much upgraded) "patriot" missiles in Israel. I don't think the original system worked that well. Didn't some missiles land in a major metropolitan area during the last Gulf War? Even upgraded, I'm sure most Israelis aren't positive that the systems will protect them. Israel also has a solid anti-gas doctrine, with (at times like this) a sealed room set up in each house, and there's also a pre-prepared bunker under every public and large building. IIRC, every family member usually also has a gas mask. There was a news story about a wife and kids who died a few days ago in one of those sealed rooms. Not exactly a rousing sign of support for such measures. :( Jon _ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
On Tuesday, March 18, 2003 9:03 AM, Han Tacoma (that's me) wrote: > On Monday, March 17, 2003 5:05 PM, Jon Gabriel wrote: > > > >From: "iaamoac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:39:52 - > > > > At 15:11 17-03-03 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > > > > Q.E.D. > > > > > >Uhhh. I don't know how Dutch dictionaries work, but in English > > >dictionary definitions are *OR* propositions, not *AND* propositions. > > > > I looked it up, thinking John was wrong. He's not: > > [...snip...] > > > Back to the deuling dictionaries, I guess. > > > > Julia, would you mind posting the OED definition of "republic", please? > > :) > > Jon > > I bet a lot of people on the list have friends that send them > "the joke of the day" email, at least I have a couple of those :-) > > FORMS OF GOVERNMENT EXPLAINED USING COWS > ~~~ > > [...snip...] On a more serious note perhaps an answer is in the US Constitution itself and the way I read it, point (8) establishes that a republic is not the same as a democracy, by virtue of using the term _versus_ (v.). | Under the US Constitution, no less than ten different checks and | balances were built into the system. | | 1) States and Territories pitted against the Central Government. |(Vertical separation of powers). | 2) The Senate against the House |(Both houses to pass bills). | 3) The President against the Congress |(Veto power). | 4) The Judiciary against the Congress |(Power to declare laws unconstitutional). | 5) The Senate against the President |(Appointments and treaties have to be ratified by the Senate). | 6) The people against their representatives |(The house is elected every 2 years). | 7) The State legislatures against the Senate |(Originally Senators were elected by State Legislators). | 8) The Electoral College against the People |(Republic v. Democracy). | 9) The People against the Central Government |(Jury nullification). |10) Both Houses against the President |(Impeachment). I seem to remember (while reading Rousseau) that Switzerland is probably the _purest_ form of democracy. The citizens had the duty to participate in the affairs of government by attending council meetings and having some form of referenda to decide on legislation. Peru is a republic (I guess we have agreed that the USA is one as well?) and the rules vary somewhat, i.e. the citizens must fulfill their civic duties by voting (if you don't you have to pay a fine) -- which is something I totally agree with. BTW, although Fujimori is in Japan (self-exiled), while he was the head of state in the beginning he declared a period of dictatorship (specified by a period when he would re-instate democracy -- something for which he kept his word) to be able to extricate the corrupt elements entrenched in the democratic institution (judiciary, legislative, etc.) in order to face The Shinning Path. He apparently hit the nail right on the head -- there exists no democratic procedure to expunge corrupt elements from an established democracy, because only after ousting judges, senators, etc. was he able to put the lid on terrorism. Too bad the company he kept brought him down with them. One of my gripes here in Canada (Constitutional Monarchy -- a Parliamentary Government) is that, just as in the USA, people don't vote! -- just go check the participation statistics (less than 40%?) -- and so the concept of "representative democracy" is in my opinion flawed and gives me very little hope for what I would like to see, namely, a "participatory democracy". This phenomena shows itself at all levels: - municipal - state / provincial - federal ...I'm about to start ranting, so I'll stop before I put foot-in-mouth, if I haven't already ;-) Cheers! -- Han Tacoma ~ Artificial Intelligence is better than none! ~ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Given this assessment, it seems to me that we will > need a bit of > luck...unless the US has tricks up its sleeve that I > can't begin to > comprehend. Lets assume a reasonable worst case > scenario for what we > cannot control. The Republican guard decides to > have a last ditch stand in > Baghdad. It goes to ground, and locates in various > buildings in Baghdad, > say 50k strong spread through the streets of > Baghdad. It uses children as > runners for communications, and ambushes the US in > such a manner that it is > very difficult to separate civilians from the > Republican Guard. The point > will not be victory for Hussein, but to make the > victory for the US as > costly as possible. > > How can the US spectacularly and immediately win an > urban war like this? > > Dan M. We _definitely_ need luck. There are two ways to win that scenario. The first, and preferable one, is to make sure that it doesn't happen. The battle plan looks, to me, like something of a race. We're trying to sprint to Baghdad before the Republican Guard can redeploy and turn it into an urban battlefield. Our airpower will be used to pin them down and slow their movement while American armored forces try to meet and annihilate them outside the city. This is possible. If it _does_ get to city fighting, things get a lot uglier. The Army has been thinking about this for a long time, and they have plans using PGMs to hit city strongpoints, and so on. In urban warfare individual unit training becomes the decisive factor (it always is, but even more so than in manuever battle or meeting engagements, where technology can play a role). That is, however, the arena in which American superiority is probably strongest, so it might not be as bad as people think. Even the elite Iraqi units probably don't have the small unit discipline to maintain battle in a hopeless cause if they have the opportunity to desert. Mixed in with the population of Baghdad is ideal conditions to decide that you'd rather be a civilian than get killed fighting Americans. Historically, armies with close contact with civilian society are the ones most likely to crumble (for example, the mass mutiny by French soldiers in 1918, when British soldiers under the same conditions kept fighting). My guess is that in that scenario Allied forces will surround the city, launch lightning strikes to seize strategic positions, use special operations raids and so on to destroy enemy concentrations with minimal damage to surrounding areas, and wait for Iraqi forces to dissolve. I think. I honestly don't know, and I'm not thrilled with this option. Change is _always_ a major factor in warfare, in this one like any other. _But_, it's important not to under-emphasize the creativity and ability of the people in the American armed forces who are thinking about these things. They have already reinvented the battle of maneuver, and they did so successfully. It's not impossible that they have done the same for urban combat. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ah...My Favorite Topic - Books (Was Question about Spoilers)
On Tuesday, March 18, 2003, at 09:13 am, G. D. Akin wrote: William T Goodall wrote: - 1966Babel-17 Samuel R. Delany - 1968Einstein Intersection Samuel R. Delany - 1971A Time of Changes Robert Silverberg - 1981The Claw of the Conciliator Gene Wolfe I've read all of those... I have all of these but something keeps jumping past them in my want to read list. I've been putting off Delany because my one experience with him was "Dahlgren" -- HATED IT! I'm afraid the two mentioned above will be more of the same. They are very different. Delany's writing has several different periods, each stylistically quite different. _Dhalgren_ is a period to itself :) ...and none of those. My fiction reading has been declining steadily for years. Down from > 400 novels a year to ~ 20. What happened? That is a considerable drop. Actually I only read about 20 *new* novels a year. I do reread a few more, although I couldn't say how many at all. That drop has been over 25 years or so. I've pretty much read the complete works of everybody from Poul Anderson to Roger Zelazny that was published before the mid-eighties. My sf/fantasy collection has around 2500 - 3000 books [1]. I also have F&SF and Analog from 1978 to the present[2] which must be about 600 magazines...[3] So I see less and less stuff that seems original, and more and more that seems like 'read that before, and done better'. An other thing is reading more non-fiction, and spending time on the computer/internet that once might have been novel reading time. My typical Amazon book parcel now contains 3 O'Reilly titles for each novel... And finally there is TV. For several years I didn't even own one, since there was nothing worth watching anyway. Now there is Buffy and Angel and Alias and other neat stuff that uses up several hours a week. And the movie channels... [1] About 15 years since I last tried to count it, and it was > 2000 then. [2] Years since I read a whole issue from cover to cover. [3] Plus miscellaneous other chapbooks and old magazines. Like Analog vol. LXXII No. 4 for December 1963 with part 1 of 'Dune World' by Frank Herbert. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing because verbing weirds language. Then they arrival for the nouns, and I speech nothing because I no verbs. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
- Original Message - From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 3:09 PM Subject: Re: Who is the sheriff? > I worry about them too, of course. Heck, I'm one of > them. But the only way I see this working out well > for the US and the world is a quick, clean, and > overwhelming victory on the part of the United States > and its allies. You can guarantee that France and > Germany will pounce on every report of mistakes or > civilian casualties as a way of inflaming the Arab > world against the US, as will (of course) various > malefactors in the Arab/Islamic world. This only > works not just if we win (which is virtually > guaranteed) but win spectacularly and immediately. > Counting on a flawless military campaign is not > usually a winning bet. It's the skill and will and > courage of our men and women that will determine the > course of the 21st century, and the bar they will have > to clear is incredibly high. Given this assessment, it seems to me that we will need a bit of luck...unless the US has tricks up its sleeve that I can't begin to comprehend. Lets assume a reasonable worst case scenario for what we cannot control. The Republican guard decides to have a last ditch stand in Baghdad. It goes to ground, and locates in various buildings in Baghdad, say 50k strong spread through the streets of Baghdad. It uses children as runners for communications, and ambushes the US in such a manner that it is very difficult to separate civilians from the Republican Guard. The point will not be victory for Hussein, but to make the victory for the US as costly as possible. How can the US spectacularly and immediately win an urban war like this? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Hegemoney Stuff
A few people on the list have asked to read copies of my senior thesis on status competition in international relations. Unfortunately, I've managed to lose the list of people who did so. If anyone is still interested, could you drop me a line off-list and I'd be happy to send it to you? Sorry. Gautam __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ah...My Favorite Topic - Books (Was Question about Spoilers)
On Tuesday, March 18, 2003, at 10:55 am, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 06:13 PM 3/18/03 +0900, G. D. Akin wrote: I have all of these but something keeps jumping past them in my want to read list. I've been putting off Delany because my one experience with him was "Dahlgren" -- HATED IT! After many years of hearing comments on it, I finally heard from _one_ person who claimed to have read more than approximately the first 100 pages. In fact, he claimed to have actually finished the whole book. I've read it twice! The bits with the fancy typographical layout are slightly harder going than the average read...[1] My list of authors I have never read a whole novel by consists of Hemingway[2] + everybody else I was supposed to read at school...unless they were a sf/fantasy/horror writer. [1] And it was an early edition with some mistakes in that were corrected in later editions. Not sure who was supposed to be able to tell that apart from the author :) [2] Why does it always rain when the protagonist is glum? How realistic is that, not. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ How long a minute is depends on which side of the bathroom door you're on. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
On Monday, March 17, 2003 5:05 PM, Jon Gabriel wrote: > >From: "iaamoac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:39:52 - > > > At 15:11 17-03-03 -0600, Dan Minette wrote: > > > Q.E.D. > > > >Uhhh. I don't know how Dutch dictionaries work, but in English > >dictionary definitions are *OR* propositions, not *AND* propositions. > > I looked it up, thinking John was wrong. He's not: [...snip...] > Back to the deuling dictionaries, I guess. > > Julia, would you mind posting the OED definition of "republic", please? > :) > Jon I bet a lot of people on the list have friends that send them "the joke of the day" email, at least I have a couple of those :-) FORMS OF GOVERNMENT EXPLAINED USING COWS ~~~ FEUDALISM: You have two cows. Your lord takes some of the milk. FASCISM: You have two cows. The government takes both, hires you to take care of them, and sells you the milk. PURE COMMUNISM: You have two cows. Your neighbors help you take care of them, and you all share the milk. APPLIED COMMUNISM: You have two cows. You have to take care of them, but the government takes all the milk. DICTATORSHIP: You have two cows. The government takes both and shoots you. MILITARISM: You have two cows. The government takes both and drafts you. SINGAPOREAN DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. The government fines you for keeping two unlicensed farm animals in an apartment. PURE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors decide who gets the milk. REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. Your neighbors pick someone to tell you who gets the milk. AMERICAN DEMOCRACY: The government promises to give you two cows if you vote for it. After the election, the president is impeached for speculating in cow futures. The press dubs the affair "Cowgate". BRITISH DEMOCRACY: You have two cows. You feed them sheeps' brains and they go mad. The government doesn't do anything. BUREAUCRACY: You have two cows. At first the government regulates what you can feed them and when you can milk them. Then it pays you not to milk them. After that it takes both, shoots one, milks the other and pours the milk down the drain. Then it requires you to fill out forms accounting for the missing cows. CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell one and buy a bull. HONG KONG CAPITALISM: You have two cows. You sell three of them to your publicly-listed company, using letters of credit opened by your brother-in-law at the bank, then execute a debt/equity swap with an associated general offer so that you get all four cows back, with a tax deduction for keeping five cows. The milk rights of six cows are transferred via a Panamanian intermediary to a Cayman Islands company secretly owned by the majority shareholder, who sells the right to all seven cows' milk back to the listed company. The annual report says that the company owns eight cows, with an option on one more. Meanwhile, you kill the two cows because of bad fung shui. FEMINISM: You have two cows. they get married and adopt a calf. TOTALITARIANISM: You have two cows. The government takes them and denies they ever existed. Milk is banned. POLITICAL CORRECTNESS: You are "associated with" (the concept of 'ownership' is a symbol of the phallocentric, warmongering, intolerant past) two differently aged (but no less valuable to society) bovines of non-specified gender. SURREALISM: You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons. COUNTERCULTURE: Wow, dude, there's like...these two cows, an. You have **got** to have some of this milk. Cheers! -- Han Tacoma ~ Artificial Intelligence is better than none! ~ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Language refreshers
- Original Message - From: "Miller, Jeffrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I grew up hearing Quebecois and English (my first 5 words were in French..) thanks to a French^WFreedom-Canadian nanny. I studied French for 5 years in high-school (and a year in college). Today, I can read simple French (signs in museums, maps, advertisements, subtitled-in-French dialogue in movies) but can hardly speak a complete sentence. I've also a smattering of Norweigian, and am fluent in ASL. Anyone else have experience with putting down a language for 8-10 years and returning to it? I'm wondering if the pathways are still in my brain, or if I'm going to have to suffer for years relearning the names for the colors, conjugating verbs, etc.. _ I think it depends on whether you were brought up speaking the language. When I travelled through Germany a couple of years ago, I found that I could cope with conversational German fairly well, even though I had not spoken it for 20-25 years. Definitely holes in the vocabulary, butI was pleasantly surprised how much was still there. Three years of French at school proved absolutely useless in France. Regads, Ray. PS: Currently watching the Aussies demolishing Sri Lanka in the semi-final of the World Cup. (Cricket for the USAns) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question on Israel
On 17 Mar 2003 at 19:35, Gautam Mukunda wrote: > OK list-members. > While I'm using this to evade finishing up work (it's > only 10:30 - why would I be in a hurry to go home?) > here's my current (among many) nightmare scenario. > > What happens when Saddam launches missiles filled with > VX at Israel? Israel is unlikely to fail to defend > itself this time, as it did in 1991, under any > circumstancse. Israel is likely to have a > particularly strong reaction to poison gas. I would > rate the chances that they would not retaliate against > such a launch in some way to approach zero. When they > do so, the Arab world is likely to go nuts. To put it > mildly. So, what do people on the list think Israel > should do? And what should the US do to try and > contain it? Well - I'm not sure of the reaction, but Israel does (unlike in the Gulf war) have a missile defence system up which should block some of the incomming missiles. They have their own, fairly long ranged "arrow" missiles and the Americans have stationed several batteries of the (much upgraded) "patriot" missiles in Israel. Israel also has a solid anti-gas doctrine, with (at times like this) a sealed room set up in each house, and there's also a pre-prepared bunker under every public and large building. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Holocaust statistics, France, etc. (was RE: Corrected French...)
On 17 Mar 2003 at 16:15, Nick Arnett wrote: > Country TotalJewsPre-war % Losses % Lost > Poland22,000,000 3,300,000 15.00% 2,900,000 88% As a note, this was large due to a massive PR campaign that the Nazis conducted versus the Jews, the effects of which still linger today. > Italy 42,993,602 44,500 0.10% 7,680 17% > Denmark3,706,349 7,800 0.21% 60 1% > Finland3,667,067 2,000 0.05% 7 0% > Bulgaria 6,200,000 50,000 0.81% 0 0% I allways found that drop interesting. Denmark in particular worked under some pretty harsh conditions to get their Jews out. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Involvement
On Tue, Mar 18, 2003 at 01:46:11PM +0100, Jean-Marc Chaton wrote: > It's not that Erik. It's just that for the question we discussed, the > only thing I had was an individual opinion, based on what I gathered > from discussion with some friends of jew and muslim origin, that > retaliation is deeply ingrained and even codified in middle east > people culture. I don't disagree with that. But how do you get from that observation, to saying that attacking terrorists will create more terrorists than it eliminates? I suggest, based on past history, that on average attacking terrorists will eliminate more terrorists than it creates. Do you disagree? > I thought (and you can blame my lack of mastering of your language in > not understanding you) that you were asking for something much more > more elaborate, with figures, numbers, statistics, with beautiful > sentences. I asked for a few examples to back up your point. Perhaps I misunderstood your point? If you agree with me that attacking terrorists may create new terrorists, but overall it will create FEWER terrorists than are eliminated, thus decreasing the total amount of terrorist activity, then we don't really have anything to argue about. -- "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Involvement
* Erik Reuter [Tue, 18/03/2003 at 06:46 -0500] > On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 10:40:41PM -0800, Deborah Harrell wrote: > > Umm, because this is a discussion list? > > Ummm, but he wouldn't discuss it. It's not that Erik. It's just that for the question we discussed, the only thing I had was an individual opinion, based on what I gathered from discussion with some friends of jew and muslim origin, that retaliation is deeply ingrained and even codified in middle east people culture. I thought (and you can blame my lack of mastering of your language in not understanding you) that you were asking for something much more more elaborate, with figures, numbers, statistics, with beautiful sentences. Something I'm not able to produce. I'm sorry if I have hurt you in declining. -- Jean-Marc ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Symbols
Deborah Harrell wrote: > > who dimly recalls seeing a swastika on an old Navajo > rug, when she was a child visiting her grandparents in > New Mexico (colors were red, grey, black and white) > When I was a kid, I played in an abandoned house - it was going to be demolished - whose floor had a mosaic of Swastikas. I don't know if they were nazi swastikas, or if they predated nazism. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: France's influence
JDG wrote: > > Thus, despite our colloquial > speech, the US, the UK, and the Netherlands are republics, > not democracies. > If you want to nitpick, I would restrict UK and the Netherlands to republics. The USA would be an _empire_, because it's a coalition of republics under an Emperor :-) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Iran's Nuclear Threat
On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 10:40:41PM -0800, Deborah Harrell wrote: > Umm, because this is a discussion list? Ummm, but he wouldn't discuss it. -- "Erik Reuter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Question on Israel
Gautam Mukunda asked: > > What happens when Saddam launches missiles filled with > VX at Israel? (...) > So, what do people on the list think Israel > should do? And what should the US do to try and > contain it? > I think Israel should wait, give some time, and if the allies don't root out Saddam and his gang, they should nuke Fra^H^H^H oops... Iraq. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Language refreshers
At 04:05 PM 3/17/2003 -0800, you wrote: > -Original Message- > From: Paul Walker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 03:43 PM > To: Killer Bs Discussion > Subject: Re: Language refreshers > > > On Mon, Mar 17, 2003 at 03:34:10PM -0800, Miller, Jeffrey wrote: > > > > (Not that I can speak it very well at all. But a few words, yes.) > > Ja hetter Jeffrey. Ja ilkee mei bile an utenfor. > > That doesn't look (to me) much like Norwegian, but I don't > know whether that's because it's Nynorsk (I've been mainly > learning Bokmaal), or because you've got your languages mixed up. :) > > Jeg heter Paul. (I'm not sure what the second one is saying.) Hmmm.. I'm probably all turned around.. I have a "smattering" of vocab :D "My name is Jeffrey. I like my car and the outdoors." *sigh* I could sign it to you.. if only you had an ASL compatible font > Kind of in relation to the earlier question, it comes back to > you. Starts off slowly, but because you're refreshing it > rather than having to form the pathways for the first time, > it's much easier. (I found that when I had to go to France > about 6-7 years after learning French at school. Not exactly > going to give a speech, mind.) *nod* I went to paris in '98 and found I could get around the city perfectly fine, but since then had zero opportunity to use it. -j- Brainstorming time. Do you think your language skills would keep up if you could listen to the language being spoken, with subtitles (if video) or translations(audio); or would you have to speak it to keep up or both or neither? I'm considering a "This is what the internet is supposed to be!" type moment. Maybe it's out there, I don't have time to look: I'm thinking of a web site that has three or four ten minute segments each at successive difficulty levels. You could sit at work and watch them. Maybe PBS could produce them, use video from Seaseme Street up through Nova and just dub them into different languages. Make new videos once a week or month, keep the past videos. If you need to speak it, a phone service, you call a number and converse on some pre-arranged subject with a native speaker. Would never be as profitable as phone sex lines, but if done correctly could be a useful tool. Kevin T. - VRWC Right now I'm speaking cold, have not been to Asia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Doh!
At 05:53 AM 3/18/03 -0500, Kevin Tarr wrote: At 11:01 PM 3/17/2003 +, you wrote: On 17 Mar 2003 at 13:33, Jon Gabriel wrote: > Ananova: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_761225.html?menu=news.qu > irkies > > Police red-faced after hailing major cocaine coup > > Police in Italy have released eight men after the haul of "cocaine" > they were seized with turned out to be athletes foot powder. Read that in the Metro this morning. *laughs* Understandable, but NEXT time I think they'll wait for the lab results :P Andy Let's pretend I don't know what I'm talking about .* Ever notice on cop shows when they grab criminals with cocaine, (I'm assuming this is what it looks like) they put a tiny bit on the tip of their tongue? It makes that little bit of tongue go dead, quite quickly. Now in this age with Anthrax and so on this may not be the best thing to do. Maybe no cops ever did this, it was just a fantasy made up by some writer using his first hand knowledge. I have it on reasonably good authority (I know lots of police officers, besides, I read it somewhere ;-) ) that no cop would ever taste a suspicious substance to see if it was drugs. For one thing, many street drugs contain various impurities, some of them not necessarily healthy, for another, even if it were drugs with no toxic additives, the purity of street drugs varies so widely that a small amount could constitute a serious "hit." In practice, there are little test kits they can carry in their cars or sometimes even in their pockets. One presumes these particular officers did not have such a test kit when they made the arrest, and had to wait for lab results. Or it could have been that they had one, but some ingredient in the foot powder gave a false positive reading on that simple test (anyone know if that is possible?). OTOH, assuming it _had_ been cocaine, should they have had to wait until the lab report came back the next morning before arresting the suspects, or at least being able to detain them on suspicion? Had they really been drug dealers, they would have been long gone by the time the lab report came back unless they were in custody . . . -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ah...My Favorite Topic - Books (Was Question about Spoilers)
At 06:13 PM 3/18/03 +0900, G. D. Akin wrote: I have all of these but something keeps jumping past them in my want to read list. I've been putting off Delany because my one experience with him was "Dahlgren" -- HATED IT! After many years of hearing comments on it, I finally heard from _one_ person who claimed to have read more than approximately the first 100 pages. In fact, he claimed to have actually finished the whole book. P. U. Maru -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Doh!
At 11:01 PM 3/17/2003 +, you wrote: On 17 Mar 2003 at 13:33, Jon Gabriel wrote: > Ananova: http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_761225.html?menu=news.qu > irkies > > Police red-faced after hailing major cocaine coup > > Police in Italy have released eight men after the haul of "cocaine" > they were seized with turned out to be athletes foot powder. Read that in the Metro this morning. *laughs* Understandable, but NEXT time I think they'll wait for the lab results :P Andy Let's pretend I don't know what I'm talking about .* Ever notice on cop shows when they grab criminals with cocaine, (I'm assuming this is what it looks like) they put a tiny bit on the tip of their tongue? It makes that little bit of tongue go dead, quite quickly. Now in this age with Anthrax and so on this may not be the best thing to do. Maybe no cops ever did this, it was just a fantasy made up by some writer using his first hand knowledge. Kevin T. - VRWC A Bene Gesserit on every police squad *<100% serious> I have never used, just unfortunately been around it ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Who is the sheriff?
Just finished reading the text of Bush's speech. So, 48 hours -- I wish Saddam would take exile, but that seems extremely unlikely. Things that should have happened and didn't -- US diplomacy before bullying, UN Security Council taking firmer steps to convince SH that they meant *real* disarmament, SH realizing that he'd been out-chickened. So. War. Strained relations with friends, allies and neutrals for the US. Loss of both face and relevance for the UN. Potential for disaster according to other posters (mass civilian casualties, torched oilfields, etc.) -- I devoutly hope not, for everyone's sake. I hope the outcome is as rosy as some have posited. Time to sign off and try to sleep. Debbi __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop! http://platinum.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ah...My Favorite Topic - Books (Was Question about Spoilers)
William T Goodall wrote: > I've read all of those and none would be in my top five...which would > be (a tough call and in date order) > > -1968 Lord of Light Roger Zelazny > -1970 The Left Hand of Darkness Ursula K LeGuin > - 1985 Neuromancer William Gibson > - 1990 Hyperion Dan Simmons > - 2000 A Deepness in the Sky Vernor Vinge I really enjoyed "Hyperion" (as well as the three sequels) and "A Deepness in the Sky." I'd put the rest as average or below. Nebula Winners still to Read > > - 1966Babel-17 > > Samuel R. > > Delany > > - 1968Einstein Intersection Samuel > > R. > > Delany > > - 1971A Time of Changes Robert > > Silverberg > > - 1981The Claw of the Conciliator Gene Wolfe > > I've read all of those... I have all of these but something keeps jumping past them in my want to read list. I've been putting off Delany because my one experience with him was "Dahlgren" -- HATED IT! I'm afraid the two mentioned above will be more of the same. Nevertheless, I will eveentually read them. > ...and none of those. My fiction reading has been declining steadily > for years. Down from > 400 novels a year to ~ 20. What happened? That is a considerable drop. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Ah...My Favorite Topic - Books (Was Question about Spoilers)
Doug Pensinger" asked > Who remembers having a hard time finding _one_ good book to read before > brin-l. Not me. Growing up with the big three, Asimov, Clarke, and Heinlein, I always had books to read. Later I discovered Niven, Bova, and Pohl. More recently, Brin, Bear, Baxter, Benford, Willis, McMaster Bujold, Jack McDevitt, and even Sheri Tepper. Always lots to read and during a dry spell when none of these folks is anything coming put, they all have great re-reads. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Movie news
I just read the "News" portion of scifiweekly.com #308. Interesting info on SF movies. - A script is complete for Asimov's "Foundation"; to focus on "The Mule" story arc. - Heinlein's "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" has been optioned (for the second time). The same group has optioned "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel." - Morgan Freeman is still pushing to do Clarke's "Rendezvous With Rama." I wonder if we'll ever see these on the screen? SIGH! George ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Question on Israel
Gautam Mukunda asked <> What can I say? I hope Saddam will not be able to launch *any* missiles on us this time. Do we have to retaliate if? Certainly. I am trying my best not to sound racists or hurt Americans' feeling, but we left Lebanon and Barak was ready to give up 97% of Jehudea & Samaria and we got Intifada, we showed restrain after Dolfi Disco bombing and got Park Hotel bombing, Americans did not react on attacks on their embassies (sp) and got WTC bombing. Will our neighbors "go nuts"? I don't think so. Egypt and Jordan and even Syria know better. There *will* be many shouting and complains to UN. Especially from our "peace activists". Arafat will do his best to keep his people quiet, for the fear what Israel *can* do while everybody looks at Iraq. First Intifada ended during first Golf (sp) war. It's very likely that this one is going to end now too. Hope to read e-mails this time next week too. Ilana from Alef area, who had SCUD about km from her home last time. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
