Re: Have a Soulful Solstice :-)
At 09:03 PM 12/21/03, Alberto Monteiro wrote: Deborah Harrell wrote: Well, now I must put on my medieval gown and trundle off for a solstice party -- this is my neo-druid friends' shindig, and I'm supposed to add a bit of quasi-partial-well-OK-pretend authenticity... ;) How pathetic is this neopaganism in the Northern Hemisphere! If these things were celebrated here, people would be dressed in _skin_! :-P You have never seen me dressed in my skin . . . such a sight would make even the most hardened pagan celibate . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christianism is evil, why it must be eradicated
Trent Shipley wrote: On Sunday 2003-12-21 16:38, Alberto Monteiro wrote: snipped some and snipped some more * a student that mentions anything anti-islamic is forced to spend hours in reeducating classes, where he must study and recite the Quram Schools tend to discourage hate speech. (Remeber minors, especially pre-teens, have limited free-speech protection, and they have *less* protection when at school.) Virulent anti-Islamic statements at school or worse, slurs directed at actual people are likely to result in some sort of sensitivity training. This is indoctrination, no matter what supporters might say. In that sort of environment the trainee WILL have to study Islam, and depending on the program might actually have to study and/or memorize verses from the Quran. NOTE that the intent would not be conversion (that would be unconstitional). The hope is that the trainee will be less suceptible to hateful ideas and have an attitude more suited to living and working peacfully and productively in a multi-racial and multi-ethnic country. Just to be stupid here. But wouldn't it be more sensible if the student got to meet people from the group that is being slandered by him. Often it is the fear of the unknown that makes people hate. A week or even a day in a moslim family would probably achieve a whole lot more than a year studying the quran. Sonja :o) GCU: 2ct ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Environmentalism is Evil and Must Be Destroyed
Robert Seeberger wrote: - Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, December 21, 2003 2:36 AM Subject: Re: Scouted: Environmentalism is Evil and Must Be Destroyed At 04:43 AM 12/20/03, Deborah Harrell wrote: --- Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe second-hand smoke isn't as dangerous as professed, but I am sure as hell happy I don't have to breathe it anymore. Anecdotaly, I got bronchitis *every time* I was exposed to 2nd-hand tobacco smoke for more than 3 hours straight (as at a bar, or driving in a car with a smoker -- I avoid such exposure religiously now). ^^^ Pun intended? It takes a lot less time than that for me to become ill from it. Even being in a room where people have been smoking can do it. *Note: Not a defense of smoking* [You may now return to the discussion which is already in progress] Do any of you who get ill (Not sarcastic quote marks, I use them to mark the difference between actual sickness and the kind of illness I am positing) around tobacco smoke get ill around other types of smoke? How about on the freeway or on downtown streets? If not, I suggest that this kind of illness might be for the most part psychosomatic. You never used to hear people, with any regularity, make these claims before, say, 1980 (date pulled out of hat). Personally I have noticed that my sensitivity to smoke has been heavily increased the less I'm exposed to it. Nothing psychosomatic about it. When I was in college everybody around me smoked and only while in class I sometimes had a smoke free environment unless the teacher was a smoker in which case even there I was inhaling second hand smoke. My parents also smoked, all their friends smoked, so at home I never had a smoke free environment. Now a couple decades onwards I'm living virtually smoke free all the time, except for the few visits to my mom's house where there is just one person left that smokes all the time, her partner. My mom quit a long time ago. When I get back from one of those visits where I usually get smoked like a salmon, when I don't bring Tom around, I usually have no voice left, my head hurts, my eyes feel like they have been rubbed with sanding paper, my throat hurts and I can't seem to stop coughing. After a bad nights sleep the next day I invariably am unable to breathe through and as a result am very very tired. It usually takes me a couple of days to catch my breath after the experience. As you say, it could be psycosomatic but the burning in my throat, the lack of breath and the coughing 'till I almost black out after being exposed a bit longer to second hand smoke feel very frightening real to me. Rather then psychosomatic I'd think that now that we have more and more smoke free areas, peoples tolerance levels for smoke irritants have gone way down and that that is the main reason why we didn't hear many complaints in the 80ties whereass now a days where you can live your life almost smoke free without too big a heartship, most non-smokers feel that second hand smoke makes them feel unwell and sometimes even ill. Sonja GCU: Black lungs ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Heresy Courts
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/12/22/ nchurch22.xml Sceptic priests could face trial by heresy courts By Jonathan Petre, Religion Correspondent (Filed: 22/12/2003) The Church of England is preparing to crack down on heresy and sloppy worship among clerics by forcing them to take an unequivocal public oath to uphold Church law. Under the proposals, new heresy courts, headed by bishops and advised by panels of theologians, would hear cases in which priests were alleged to have erred on doctrine, ritual or ceremonial. Members of the clergy who denied the doctrine of the trinity or the incarnation or who proclaim atheistic beliefs from the pulpit could face charges, as could those who failed to wear appropriate robes during services. ... The proposals reflect concern that the clergy is failing to fulfil the Church's minimum requirements, such as wearing proper vestments in church or holding a certain number of daily services. Some bishops also want to rid the Church of its reputation for believing everything and nothing. ... Liberals fear that the plans, which are due to be debated by the General Synod next summer, will lead to witch-hunts. The Sea of Faith group, whose members believe that the Bible is little more than a collection of myths, numbers dozens of Anglican clerics among its sympathisers. ... In medieval times, heresies were rife. What constitutes heresy today is far more contentious. During the row over women priests, for example, the previous Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr George Carey, described as heretical the idea that only a male could represent Christ at the altar, a statement that would condemn hundreds of traditionalist clerics. On the other hand, many conservative Anglicans would have liked the former Bishop of Durham, the Rt Rev David Jenkins, to have been disciplined over his public expressions of doubt about the virgin birth and the resurrection. In 1993, the then Bishop of Chichester sacked a parish priest, the Rev Anthony Freeman, for writing a book denying the existence of God. A recent survey of 2,000 of the Church's 10,000 clerics found that a third doubted or disbelieved in the physical resurrection and that only half were convinced by the truth of the virgin birth. At the moment, heretics can be dealt with only under the virtually unworkable 1963 disciplinary code, which has effectively prevented any trials from taking place. If the new proposals are approved by the House of Bishops and the Synod, they will create a far more usable system. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Our products just aren't engineered for security. - Brian Valentine, senior vice president in charge of Microsoft's Windows development team. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Filtering
Doug Pensinger wrote: With all due respect, if we stopped talking about everything that makes someone upset, we may as well shut down the list because we wouldn't even be able to discuss the weather. What do you mean by discuss the weather? I feel highly offended when you all start talking about snow in Christmas, and I have 41 deg in the termometer! Congratulations: you have just entered my filter :-/ Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Filtering
At 06:45 AM 12/22/2003, you wrote: Doug Pensinger wrote: With all due respect, if we stopped talking about everything that makes someone upset, we may as well shut down the list because we wouldn't even be able to discuss the weather. What do you mean by discuss the weather? I feel highly offended when you all start talking about snow in Christmas, and I have 41 deg in the termometer! Congratulations: you have just entered my filter :-/ Alberto Monteiro It snowed two days ago but now it's also 41 deg! Kevin T. - VRWC O, wait... ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christianism is evil, why it must be eradicated
- Original Message - From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:00 AM Subject: Re: christianism is evil, why it must be eradicated Julia wrote: I think it varies on a state-by-state basis. If you told me this was happening in California, I'd just want enough info so I could verify the specific instances. Yoiks, it must be bash California week. Question is, if it's so bad, how come there are so many Texans and Alabamans (and people from every other state/country/potentate) relocated here? FWIW, I just saw a census article that stated that there is now a net outflux of Americans from California. The rise in the California population is due to the difference in the birth and death rate and immigration from outside of the country. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: [GoBills] Week 16 NFL Picks
John D. Giorgis wrote: Thank goodness my horrible season of picking the NFL games is almost over. Here is one of my last gasp attempts to try and pick a perfect slate for a single week in the year: You deserve kudos for putting your thoughts on record week in and week out in such a public manner. The fact that you have had a bad season this year can be put down to a lot of reasons, a major one being luck. I have taken part in that Two Bills Drive contest all year and have had a reasonable season though I'm still mired in about 70th place. Anyone who tells you picking winners in the NFL is easy must be nuts. Take today for example. By the end of the afternoon, I'll be 10-1 for the day. (I won't tell you who the one is.) But to get to that point, the Bears had to win on a last second field goal, the Saints had to miss an extra point after a truly bizarre final play, and the Titans had to drive the field scoring on a 4th and (basically) 30 play with seconds remaining. The parity in this league is unbelievable with a few exceptions. We here in Arizona and players around the nation can almost always count on the Cardinals to keep them from an 0-for the week. Bill ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Filtering
Alberto Monteiro wrote: Doug Pensinger wrote: With all due respect, if we stopped talking about everything that makes someone upset, we may as well shut down the list because we wouldn't even be able to discuss the weather. What do you mean by discuss the weather? I feel highly offended when you all start talking about snow in Christmas, and I have 41 deg in the termometer! Congratulations: you have just entered my filter :-/ 41? You lucky dog -- I only have 18[1]. (No snow here either.) Plus it's windy. Is it windy where you are? It gets very windy here. Or are you going to be envious of my having wind? :) [1] or 64 to those of you who would prefer the temperature in degrees F Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christianism is evil, why it must be eradicated
Doug Pensinger wrote: Julia wrote: I think it varies on a state-by-state basis. If you told me this was happening in California, I'd just want enough info so I could verify the specific instances. Yoiks, it must be bash California week. Question is, if it's so bad, how come there are so many Texans and Alabamans (and people from every other state/country/potentate) relocated here? Economic reasons (i.e., that's where certain sorts of jobs are)? Some of them not wanting to be in the sort of state Texas and Alabama are right now? California just being more agreeable to some folks but not others? And besides, if you can't bash the most populous state for something, who can you bash? :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Science Fiction In General...
I finished off Seventh Son by OS Card the other day. It's the first book in the Alvin Maker series. Has anyone here read that book, or perhaps all the books leading up to and including The Crystal City? The reason I ask is due to the fact that I rate Seventh Son above Enders Game. Of course I acknowledge the fact that I'm being served another demigod on a silver platter, but I absolutely loved that book. -Travis _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/viruspgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.
In a message dated 12/22/2003 9:48:09 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (on a serious note) How dare you. Remember who you're talking to. Vilyehm --- String--or nothing! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun. Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 12:10:18 EST In a message dated 12/22/2003 9:48:09 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (on a serious note) How dare you. Remember who you're talking to. lol Well I'll try. I'll even change my screen-saver to 3D text which will read Remember, you're talking to Medievalbk. -Travis how's that for remembering Edmunds _ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/featurespgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Notes on Uplift
Trent Shipley wrote: I have done some estimates on this. From data from GURPS Uplift and from Contacting Aliens, I estimate: * about 2 million populated planets at each time Across how many galaxies? All five of them. (Note that for the 1000KY +- Contact Galaxy 4 was fallow, so it doesn't matter. The real question is whether the GIM populates 2M planets in Galaxy 2 or throughout GIM controled space.) My estimate includes all five. Of course, as in Drake's equation, each factor has an error from 10% to 900% :-) * about 10 planets per race * about 200,000 races I'll take this on faith, with the qualification that 200K O-2 races is somwhat inconvenient for writers. Yep :-) Most of those species would be doing nothing, except about * 10% being uplifted * 10% in the 100,000-year period of indenture * 10% uplifting a pre-sentient race * 10% being served by an indentured client Your model seems to be pre-uplift (stage 0) - uplifting client (stages 1 to 4?) - indentured client (stage 5?) Since stage has the same population, and assuming mortality is minimal, each stage must take the same amount of time. Yes: the period where a species is under uplift may vary a lot, but it's said somewhere that the mean [median?] is 100k. And the period of indenture is explicitly stated as 100k. My mental model is pre-uplift (stage 0) - uplifting clients, this includes indenture (stages 1-5) Ok, but why do you join the indenture period with the uplift period? They are quite distinct phases. The pre-uplift stage goes fast but has high mortality as the GUI denies claims or proposed projects. It is also irrelevant. We do not worry about pre-clients in this census. Yes :-) The mean term for uplift/indenture combined is 100KY No!!! The uplift process can be long or short, but the indenture period is fixed. We approximate the rate of uplift as an average of 1.1 client per mature species. (The [fictional] real rate has to include non-reproducers and mortality and some growth in the number of citizen species it must be between 1.01 and 1.2.) Clients are not fairly distributed. Lets assume 11% of all O-2 citizens are minors. (1% of these are going to get 'lost') Note this seems to imply that the mean life expectancy for an O-2 citizen race is about 1,000,000 years. This 1 My is explicitly stated in Heaven's Reach. This is a bit short for purposes of continuity with the fiction. If you want the mean life expectency between the start of uplift and passing-on to be 10MY then you need to divide by 10, so only 1.1% of all O-2 citizens would be minors. But 10 My is too much for an average. Notice that everybody expects the Buyur to be retired, after only 0.5 My. With maximally equitble distribution about 10% of Citizens are patrons, 1% of the population have 2 clients. In this sort of society you might want to uplift your client early to maximize your power. This implies a species lifecycle of 10% minority, 10% young adult, 10% active parent with client, 70% empty nest (except for the 10% of the population who get a second client).With low death rates the average client in its minority/indenture would have 4 ancestors in its patronymic because a citizen tends to start its uplift project when it is about 200KY old. And this is consistent with the data from the Books. Alternatively, a most responsible citizen might uplift their client late so they have a lot of wisdom and technology for the project. Then you have 10% minor, 60% adult, 10% parent, 20% elder. Patronymics tend to be short. And Patronymics _are_ short: few races enumerate more than 3 or 4 daddies. At really low levels of equity only 1% of all species might be patrons at any given time and many patrons will be active uplifting clients throughout their careers as main sequence citizens. If we want 1MY mean life-spans, then 11% clients and 5% patrons might provide for interesting but not grossly inequitble politics consistent with existing sources on the Uplift Universe. Uh? Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Quake
We just felt a quake here in Santa Clara... which felt like a long (30 secs or more) gentle rolling, like being on a large boat. They're saying its center was near San Simeon, pretty far from here, and was a 6.5. If the list goes away, perhaps it'll mean that it was a precursor to the Big One. This was one of the first quakes in which I mostly just felt nauseous. That's from being in a building, I think, with my computer monitor ... and the room ... swaying. Nick -- Nick Arnett Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198 [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: christianism is evil, why it must be eradicated
- Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 10:03 AM Subject: Re: christianism is evil, why it must be eradicated At 12:00 AM 12/22/03, Doug Pensinger wrote: Julia wrote: I think it varies on a state-by-state basis. If you told me this was happening in California, I'd just want enough info so I could verify the specific instances. Yoiks, it must be bash California week. Question is, if it's so bad, how come there are so many Texans and Alabamans (and people from every other state/country/potentate) relocated here? I dunno. Why do I hear people in places like Oregon and Washington complaining about all the Californicators moving into their state and changing things? Here in Texas you could easily ask: Question is, if it's so bad, how come there are so many Californians and Alabamans (and people from every other state/country/potentate) relocated here? Face it folks, we live in a mobile society. People are always moving somewhere or another. xponent Steve? Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
- Original Message - From: Horn, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:51 AM Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... From: Travis Edmunds [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] I finished off Seventh Son by OS Card the other day. It's the first book in the Alvin Maker series. Has anyone here read that book, or perhaps all the books leading up to and including The Crystal City? The reason I ask is due to the fact that I rate Seventh Son above Enders Game. Of course I acknowledge the fact that I'm being served another demigod on a silver platter, but I absolutely loved that book. I have read all the ones so far. (I believe the final book has not yet been published. Or perhaps it has and I just don't know it.) I've enjoyed them, for the most part. It gets a bit preachy but that's to be expected from OSC. ___ Its out in hardback and has been for a few weeks. xponent Held it In My Grubby Paws Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
- Original Message - From: Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 11:12 AM Subject: Science Fiction In General... I finished off Seventh Son by OS Card the other day. It's the first book in the Alvin Maker series. Has anyone here read that book, or perhaps all the books leading up to and including The Crystal City? The reason I ask is due to the fact that I rate Seventh Son above Enders Game. Of course I acknowledge the fact that I'm being served another demigod on a silver platter, but I absolutely loved that book. I've read all but Crystal City. As a series it is a little uneven..some of the books are great and some are a bit marginal, but overall its a very good series. xponent Red Prophet Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
From: Horn, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 11:51:09 -0600 I have read all the ones so far. (I believe the final book has not yet been published. Or perhaps it has and I just don't know it.) I've enjoyed them, for the most part. It gets a bit preachy but that's to be expected from OSC. - jmh That's a mouthfull there about Card. Like you said though, it is to be expected, and I do expect it. Therefore I enjoy his work for what it is: Completely predictable, yet completely enjoyable. Also, Card pulled somewhat of a Terry Pratchett in Seventh Son. Obscure, abstract notions which usually only thrive in a persons inner thoughts, were quite eloquently transferred to paper in that book. I look forward to reading the entire series. -Travis the expected/expect it bit was once again quite intentional Edmunds _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:34:44 -0600 I've read all but Crystal City. As a series it is a little uneven..some of the books are great and some are a bit marginal, but overall its a very good series. xponent Red Prophet Maru rob So in other words, it's the Ender series? -Travis pondering the superiority/mediocrity of OS Card Edmunds _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Becoming a Compassionless Conservative
- Original Message - From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Brin-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 1:40 PM Subject: SCOUTED: Becoming a Compassionless Conservative From _National Review_: http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/graham200312220001.asp Jennifer Graham doesn't impress me as being any brighter than the crackhead she is criticizing. It is not the mother that is of importance, she is unlikely to change. It is the opportunity to save her children from a path where they will likely repeat their mothers mistakes. That the mother will continue to be a wretched hedonist and less than caring parent is to be expected. There are people like that in *every* generation. But there is always an opportunity to give those kids a chance to better themselves. That is the duty of a civilized society. To teach ethical lessons in spite of unethical environments. What I found amazing about the piece is Ms. Grahams penchant for doing the right thing, and then complaining about it. It seems ironic to me that she would put forth so much effort to help the daughter and still worry over 5 dollars. She must have spent much more than 5 buck in sheer effort. xponent Conservatives Are Weird Sometimes Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
- Original Message - From: Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General... From: Robert Seeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 16:34:44 -0600 I've read all but Crystal City. As a series it is a little uneven..some of the books are great and some are a bit marginal, but overall its a very good series. xponent Red Prophet Maru rob So in other words, it's the Ender series? No, I would say it is quite a bit better. But then I was never a *big* fan of the Ender series. It's better than mediocre, but not a lot better. xponent Mediocrity Incarnate Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Scouted: House Bans Patents on Human Beings
From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Scouted: House Bans Patents on Human Beings Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:07:40 -0500 Not sure if anyone out there disagrees with this law, but if so, I 'd be interested in hearing from you. JDG http://www.lifenews.com/bio175.html Pro-life groups say a patent is a government-conferred property right and human beings shouldn't be considered property. The provision would ban patents for genetically engineered human embryos or human beings but would not prohibit patents on tissues, cells or other biological products. ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 Humans being considered property makes my skin crawl. However part of the argument lies in the definition of life; something which is part of the pro-life/pro-choice discussion. For example if it was agreed upon that life doesn't start until one month after conception, and it was possible to patent these embryos in order to harvest whatever was needed to save the lives (in a medical sense) of one or more living persons, then it is somewhat justified. Or is it? You may say that it's not justified. Fine. But what if you or your child or some other loved one of yours, contracted a life threatening affliction, and the only means of saving yours or the other person's life was to harvest a human embryo (which you consider to be alive). What do you do? Do you preach a high moral sense and refuse to take the life of an unborn human? Or do hardwired survival instincts kick in? A situation where you are willing to take a life (the embryo) in order to save your own or that of a loved one. Or perhaps it's not considered aliveetc.. -Travis it goes on and on Edmunds _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
ROTK sets boxoffice record
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStoryc=StoryFTcid=1071251707109p=1012571727304 The final installment of the The Lord of the Rings film trilogy sold $246m worth of tickets worldwide between Wednesday and Sunday, the highest total takings over the first five days of any film. The strong box office performance of The Return of the King provides a welcome boost for Time Warner, the media conglomerate that owns New Line Cinema, the film's distributor, and raises hopes that it could become only the second film after Titanic to gross more than $1bn during its run. Time Warner has been overshadowed by record writedowns, management upheaval and stock price turmoil since it merged four years ago with AOL, the internet service provider. The Return of the King dominated North America box offices this weekend, selling $73.6m worth of tickets between Friday and Sunday, for total takings of $125m since its launch on Wednesday. The film added $121m in 28 other countries to easily surpass the $202m worldwide opening achieved last month by The Matrix Revolutions, the previous opening-week record holder. The financial performance of The Return of the King is all the more remarkable because the film has yet to open in a number of countries, including Japan, Italy and Australia. The first Lord of the Rings installment, The Fellowship of the Ring, released in 2001, achieved North American ticket sales of $94m in its first five days and went on to gross $861m worldwide. The Two Towers, released in 2002, grossed $102m in its first five days in North America and went on to achieve total sales of $921m. Each of the films, shot on location in New Zealand by director Peter Jackson, is estimated to have cost $100m to produce. Titanic, released in 1998, launched in fewer countries but went on to achieve worldwide ticket sales of $1.8bn. xponent Action Jackson Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Week 16 NFL Picks
Did anyone see this? http://www.local6.com/sports/2719807/detail.html It was a football sideline interview -- complete with a pass. ESPN cut short an interview with Joe Namath during Saturday's Jets-Patriots game -- after some curious answers from the Hall of Fame quarterback. When reporter Suzy Kolber asked Namath what the Jets' struggles this season mean to him personally, he leaned in and said: I want to kiss you. Kolber's reply: Thanks, Joe. A huge compliment. Namath later repeated: I want to kiss you. Kolber sent it back to the announcers in the booth. The network said Namath also made some relevant football points -- but adds it wouldn't have done the interview if it had known what Namath was going to say. The Jets aren't commenting on the exchange. xponent Broadway Joe For President Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Scouted: House Bans Patents on Human Beings
From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Scouted: House Bans Patents on Human Beings Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:15:58 -0600 At 05:02 PM 12/22/03, Travis Edmunds wrote: From: John D. Giorgis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Scouted: House Bans Patents on Human Beings Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 20:07:40 -0500 Not sure if anyone out there disagrees with this law, but if so, I 'd be interested in hearing from you. JDG http://www.lifenews.com/bio175.html Pro-life groups say a patent is a government-conferred property right and human beings shouldn't be considered property. The provision would ban patents for genetically engineered human embryos or human beings but would not prohibit patents on tissues, cells or other biological products. ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 Humans being considered property makes my skin crawl. However part of the argument lies in the definition of life; something which is part of the pro-life/pro-choice discussion. For example if it was agreed upon that life doesn't start until one month after conception Of course the main problem is that there is no such agreement, and it's unlikely there ever will be. Some people believe that life begins at conception, while others don't. -- Ronn! :) Well of course. Understand however, it was quite simply a hypothetical situation created to do nothing more than simplify the act of me making my point. -Travis _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
-Original Message- From: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:58 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... At 11:51 AM 12/22/03, Horn, John wrote: It gets a bit preachy but that's to be expected from OSC. Well, what do you expect when he only gets to preach for real on the fourth Sunday of every month, and then only on a topic that's assigned to him, and that only for about twenty minutes? You mean Fast Sunday? Why only the last Sunday of the month? http://www.hatrack.com/research/student-papers/porschet.shtml Card has won the Hugo and Nebula awards in 1986 for Ender's Game and in 1987 for its sequel,Speaker for the Dead. To this day he is the only author to win these prestigious awards in two consecutive years. Card has lived in California, Utah, and Arizona. He served a two year mission in Brazil for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Card is a very dedicated member of the Mormon church and serves as a Sunday school teacher in his ward. And it continues on... The majority of Card's writing has an emphasis on Mormonism, whether it is talked about in his story, or whether it is just recognized by Mormon readers; it is there. In Card's Homecoming Saga (The Memory of Earth, The Call of Earth, The Ships of Earth, Earthfall, Earthborn), he tells the story of the Book of Mormon. The main character in the Alvin Maker series is obviously, to any member of the Mormon church, modeled after Joseph Smith. The family in this series (Seventh Son, Red Prophet, Prentice Alvin, Alvin Journeyman) moves away from Vermont because of bad farm land. Joseph Smith's family left Vermont for the same reason(Porschet). In Seventh Son, the main character, Alvin has a leg operation at about the same age Joseph Smith was when he had a similar leg operation. The account of this operation is recorded by Joseph's mother, Lucy Mack Smith (Smith 54). The Alvin Maker series is a combination of American history, Mormon history, and folk magic. In a personal letter that I received from Orson Scott Card regarding what influenced his writing style, vision, and genre the most, he said: ...the culture that created me was a mixture of my family, the LDS church... the public culture of America in that era (as expressed through television, radio, news, prevailing public views and issues), and the culture of Santa Clara and Mesa in particular, especially of the educational system in those two cities... I read book 1 and 2 of the Homecoming series, and came to the same conclusion - it's clearly influenced by the Book of Mormon. Nerd From behind the Zion Curtain From the collection Hymns We Would Actually Sing: Come listen to a high councilor drone, And try to stay awake, It's good he speaks just once a month, 'Cuz that's all that we can take. He's given the same talk so many times That even he is bored, If I cannot keep my eyes open I just hope I will not snore. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
Travis Edmunds wrote: I finished off Seventh Son by OS Card the other day. It's the first book in the Alvin Maker series. Has anyone here read that book, or perhaps all the books leading up to and including The Crystal City? The reason I ask is due to the fact that I rate Seventh Son above Enders Game. Of course I acknowledge the fact that I'm being served another demigod on a silver platter, but I absolutely loved that book. -Travis I've read all of them but _The Crystal City_. I do confess to being a bit upset when I discovered that _Seventh Son_ was only the start of a series! (I thought it was stand-alone when I bought it.) I do quite like the books, although the last two didn't seem to move the series forward as much as the first three did. Alvin doesn't seem to be too much of a superman for me. He basically has one extra power, in a world where many people have such knacks. It is a nice general power, but a lot of his progress is because of his own struggles. Now is it Science Fiction? I'd say yes, if only in a general sense. Card has imagined a world with not too many differences from our own past, and thought through the consequences of those differences pretty carefully. That is the core of Science Fiction, isn't it? ---David What? Science fiction needs high technology? Says who? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
At 05:31 PM 12/22/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: Ronn!Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:58 PM To: Killer Bs Discussion Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... At 11:51 AM 12/22/03, Horn, John wrote: It gets a bit preachy but that's to be expected from OSC. Well, what do you expect when he only gets to preach for real on the fourth Sunday of every month, and then only on a topic that's assigned to him, and that only for about twenty minutes? You mean Fast Sunday? No. Fast Sunday is the _first_ Sunday of the month. The fourth Sunday is traditionally Dry Council Sunday. Why only the last Sunday of the month? If there's a fifth Sunday in the month, something else happens. http://www.hatrack.com/research/student-papers/porschet.shtml Card has won the Hugo and Nebula awards in 1986 for Ender's Game and in 1987 for its sequel,Speaker for the Dead. To this day he is the only author to win these prestigious awards in two consecutive years. Card has lived in California, Utah, and Arizona. He served a two year mission in Brazil for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Card is a very dedicated member of the Mormon church and serves as a Sunday school teacher in his ward. Last I knew, he was on the high council. Of course, it has been a while since I talked to him in person. I suppose I should read his web site more often . . . (I did think about the possibility he had been released from that position when I wrote the earlier message . . . ) -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Environmentalism is Evil and Must Be Destroyed
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 10:54 AM 12/22/03, Julia Thompson wrote: Sonja van Baardwijk wrote: Personally I have noticed that my sensitivity to smoke has been heavily increased the less I'm exposed to it. Nothing psychosomatic about it. There was one year that I managed to increase my tolerance for smoke, and that was done by longer and longer exposures to people smoking. My body just got used to it. I wasn't happy about it, but I could stand it. (This led to weird things like the time I washed my hair in a sink at 2AM and to dry it before I went to sleep, spent awhile combing it out right next to a radiator) Hadn't blow dryers been invented then? Yes. And given the damage my hair took when I was about 7-10 years old from using one on a regular basis, I wasn't interested in using one. Plus which, I didn't have one, and at 2AM I didn't feel like going to someone else's room to wake them up and ask if they'd brought one. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Environmentalism is Evil and Must Be Destroyed
At 05:54 PM 12/22/03, Julia Thompson wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 10:54 AM 12/22/03, Julia Thompson wrote: Sonja van Baardwijk wrote: Personally I have noticed that my sensitivity to smoke has been heavily increased the less I'm exposed to it. Nothing psychosomatic about it. There was one year that I managed to increase my tolerance for smoke, and that was done by longer and longer exposures to people smoking. My body just got used to it. I wasn't happy about it, but I could stand it. (This led to weird things like the time I washed my hair in a sink at 2AM and to dry it before I went to sleep, spent awhile combing it out right next to a radiator) Hadn't blow dryers been invented then? Yes. And given the damage my hair took when I was about 7-10 years old from using one on a regular basis, I wasn't interested in using one. When you did use one, did you turn the stereo up loud enough to listen to it while you dried your hair . . . and incidentally allow everyone within several hundred feet to also listen to it? (I would be visiting a girl's apartment in college and one of her roommates would be drying her hair while listening to the stereo, making conversation difficult in the living room . . . ) Plus which, I didn't have one, and at 2AM I didn't feel like going to someone else's room to wake them up and ask if they'd brought one. :) I finally found a hairstyle that will dry naturally rather than having to be blow-dried very carefully to keep the wave at least somewhat under control. Of course, it does not meet Air Force or BYU standards . . . Cats Don't Like To Be Blow-Dried After Their Bath Maru -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Science Fiction In Music
Something I have been thinking about a lot lately is music with Science Fictional and Fantasmal themes. Offhand, bands like Pink Floyd and Hawkwind spring to mind immediately. But I have been thinking that the band that has done the most and/or the best with SF and Fantasy themes is Blue Oyster Cult. So if we were pretending to give out an award for best SFF song, album, and group of the 20th century, I would (pending suggestions from others) nominate the following: BEST SONG: Black Blade by Blue Oyster Cult After The Goldrush by Neil Young Space Oddity by David Bowie Homeworld by Yes (You knew I was gonna sneak them in thereG) Rocket Man by Elton John '39 by Queen Ramble On by Led Zeppelin Come Sail Away by Styx 8 Miles High by The Byrds BEST ALBUM: In Search Of Space by Hawkwind 2112 by Rush Diamond Dogs by David Bowie I, Robot by The Alan Parsons Project BEST GROUP: Blue Oyster Cult? Almost every album has a song or two that SFFnal. These guys must really like SFF. They even wrote some songs with Michael Moorcock (Black Blade is about Elric, and is one ass kicking song.) Some songs by Blue Oyster Cult: The Red And The Black Seven Screaming Diz-Busters Don't Fear The Reaper Godzilla Harvester Of Eyes Flaming Telepaths Veteran Of The Psychic Wars E.T.I. (Extra Terrestrial Intelligence) Workshop Of The Telescopes Astronomy Take Me Away The Alan Parsons Project? Puulease..Just look at their catalogue. Its virtually all SFF!!! _*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_*_ I'd like to see some suggestions from others, and criticisms too There ought to be a few limits too: No Purple People Eater comedy type songs. No instrumentals (Names are just too little to go on) Songs or albums must have a distinct and clear reference to SFF tropes. (I'm including Horror as a subgenre of Fantasy, in case that wasn't very clear. So Horror is fair game.) And suggestions for BEST GROUP should come with some justification as to why you think a band or artist is the best SFFnal group or artist. Now I know I haven't come close to covering all the bases in this post. So tell me what I missed and where I am wrong!!G xponent Starman Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In Music
How about: ELP, Karn Evil, 3rd Impression (Brain Salad Surgery) ELF, Tarkus (Tarkus) (the SF elements are the cover, which follows the song!) Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In Music
- Original Message - From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 7:41 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In Music How about: ELP, Karn Evil, 3rd Impression (Brain Salad Surgery) ELF, Tarkus (Tarkus) (the SF elements are the cover, which follows the song!) Album covershm That's another category I suppose. OK I now nominate every Yes album. G xponent Just A Joke Folks Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In Music
Album covershm No, what I meant is that to understand the song you have to follow along with the album cover (which had a number of pictures depicting movements within the song, and telling the story of Tarkus). Its sort of like following along with they lyrics, except this time the lyrics are pictures... Damon. = Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum. http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html Now Building: __ Do you Yahoo!? New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing. http://photos.yahoo.com/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In Music
- Original Message - From: Damon Agretto [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 7:56 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In Music Album covershm No, what I meant is that to understand the song you have to follow along with the album cover (which had a number of pictures depicting movements within the song, and telling the story of Tarkus). Its sort of like following along with they lyrics, except this time the lyrics are pictures... OhI understood, it was just a good setup for a jokeG. But that is an interesting point you make, and not one I would reject out of hand. Great album too xponent Humor Gets the Best Of Me Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In Music
In a message dated 12/22/2003 6:17:30 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There ought to be a few limits too: No Purple People Eater comedy type songs. Well what other type of music do you think I listen to? If you exclude Purple People Eater, I guess you also have to exclude George Rock's singing of I'm the Captain of the Spaceship as done on one of my Spike Jones tapes. Ptfowey! I also have to nominate Raymond Scot's Powerhouse, NONVOCAL, as heard on many a WB cartoon. Holst, The Planets, goes high on my list. Ok. You, yawn mostly want rock tunes. In the Year 2525, goes very low--but it is on the list. And Benson Arizona! So there. William Taylor - When you wish upon a star, You should do so from afar. For if you wish -upon- a star. You'll burn to a crisp. --Traditional lyrics. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Quake
In a message dated 12/22/2003 2:10:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm not sure how the dizziness fits into that plan... You try to read the label while it's spinning on that ye olde record player? Re quake: As far as I can tell, it was very close to a campground often used by the SCA. Just north of Paso Robles. Once camped in Texas, we were only two miles away from golfball sized hail. The clouds were forming a circle arround where we were fighting. Cars were all down the road and except for being in armour, all we had were the tents. So it goes... William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Scouted: House Bans Patents on Human Beings
From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Scouted: House Bans Patents on Human Beings Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:35:26 -0600 I know. But then you know I have to point out the obvious . . . ;-) -- Ronn! :) No, I didn't know that. And not to seem sarcastic or disputatious, as that is not my intent, could you explain that one to me? I really don't understand why you have to point out the obvious. -Travis _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Becoming a Compassionless Conservative
How is this mother any different than the neglectful wealthy parents of such worthless scum as Paris Hilton? Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
From: David Hobby [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:25:54 -0500 I've read all of them but _The Crystal City_. I do confess to being a bit upset when I discovered that _Seventh Son_ was only the start of a series! (I thought it was stand-alone when I bought it.) Same here! I knew about the Alvin series, just didn't tie Seventh Son into it!! I do quite like the books, although the last two didn't seem to move the series forward as much as the first three did. Thanks for the insight. Alvin doesn't seem to be too much of a superman for me. He basically has one extra power, in a world where many people have such knacks. It is a nice general power, but a lot of his progress is because of his own struggles. True. But it's still the inherent greatness routine. Now is it Science Fiction? I'd say yes, if only in a general sense. Card has imagined a world with not too many differences from our own past, and thought through the consequences of those differences pretty carefully. That is the core of Science Fiction, isn't it? ---David What? Science fiction needs high technology? Says who? First of all I'm not quite sure why everyone answers that unasked question!lol I assume it's due to me posting about Seventh Son in the Science Fiction In General thread. Anyhow as for it being sci-fi, it's borderline. Like you said about the technology aspect of it all, says who? _ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcommpgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In General...
From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Science Fiction In General... Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2003 17:47:28 -0600 Last I knew, he was on the high council. Of course, it has been a while since I talked to him in person. I suppose I should read his web site more often . . . -- Ronn! :) You've spoken to Mr Card in person? -Travis _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/photospgmarket=en-caRU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Filtering
Julia Thompson wrote: What do you mean by discuss the weather? I feel highly offended when you all start talking about snow in Christmas, and I have 41 deg in the termometer! 41? You lucky dog -- I only have 18[1]. (No snow here either.) The minimum in Texas is 18? Even here we have some temperatures slightly below that, in Winter. Plus it's windy. Is it windy where you are? We had winds last week. I even had to turn off the new computer during a storm. It gets very windy here. Or are you going to be envious of my having wind? :) No :-) Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In General...
In a message dated 12/22/2003 8:05:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: -- Ronn! :) You've spoken to Mr Card in person? -Travis Then ask him why he gave Columbus a telescope. William Taylor - My favorite meaningless rant. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Seasonal Puzzle
JDG wrote: More to the point, I disagree with the result of #25. I've never heard ofCaroling, Caroling - but Coventry Carol is probably much more famous. Caroling, Caroling, through the snow, Christmas bells are ringing... Coventry Carol may be more famous, but Caroling Caroling is much more fun... :-) Reggie Bautista _ Its our best dial-up Internet access offer: 6 months @$9.95/month. Get it now! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.
William Taylor wrote: Back from second viewing of ROTK. Only change: They dropped the preview that got booed opening night. And that preview was...? (Sorry if this was asked before, I've been having some unexpected trouble switching over to a new email address, and lost a bunch of messages...) Reggie Bautista Curious Minds Want To Know Maru _ Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work and yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.
Matt wrote: -- Matt ...who wonders whether the monkeys' script revisions for Hamlet were any good... Is this possible? Hamlet was perfect, after all ;-) Reggie Bautista _ Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed providers now. https://broadband.msn.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: House Bans Patents on Human Beings
Travis Edmunds wrote: You may say that it's not justified. Fine. But what if you or your child or some other loved one of yours, contracted a life threatening affliction, and the only means of saving yours or the other person's life was to harvest a human embryo (which you consider to be alive). What do you do? If one of my kids needed some special organ (say, the heart) and it happened that the only one available (compatibility, etc) was _yours_, I might try to kill you to harvest that organ. That doesn't make it right. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In Music
Robert Seeberger wrote: Something I have been thinking about a lot lately is music with Science Fictional and Fantasmal themes. One of my daughters' favourite bands these days is led by a girl, Pitty, and she has some sf-based songs. She even dedicates the album to the prophets Asimov, Aldous Huxley and George Orwell, with a praise to Kubrick :-) I don't know if someone has put it in the Free Sites, but the song is _Admiravel Chip Novo_ Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In Music
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 8:05 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In Music In a message dated 12/22/2003 6:17:30 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: There ought to be a few limits too: No Purple People Eater comedy type songs. Well what other type of music do you think I listen to? If you exclude Purple People Eater, I guess you also have to exclude George Rock's singing of I'm the Captain of the Spaceship as done on one of my Spike Jones tapes. Ptfowey! I also have to nominate Raymond Scot's Powerhouse, NONVOCAL, as heard on many a WB cartoon. There's tons of songs that make light of SFFnal themes. They're a dime a dozen from Dr. Demento to recorded filk. But since most SFFnal literature takes something of a serious tone, thats what I'm looking at. Comedy that uses SFFnal themes is still comedy, but not really SFF, or at least not necessarily. Holst, The Planets, goes high on my list. I agree. Mars is still one of my favorite classical pieces. (Even though it has been overused to the point that it almost a mockery of itself.) Ok. You, yawn mostly want rock tunes. Hey!G If you suggest Puff The Magic Dragon, its a good suggestion. Its kind of a silly song, but it tells a fantasy story and does it straight. Heck, lots of folks might vote for it. And it's not a rock tune. And I'm not limiting the subject to rock music. No, not at all. It's just to the best of my knowledge, rock is the only music genre to seriously use SFF as a theme. I think that comes from the rock generations increased interest in SFF. But pieces intended for comedic effect are something of a different subject. If you know of some non-rock music that fits the bill, I would be very glad to hear of it. And I don't have a problem with intentional thread drift, If you know what I mean sailor. ;) In the Year 2525, goes very low--but it is on the list. True, it fits the bill. And Benson Arizona! I'm not familiar with that one. Can you tell me anything about it? So there. Wilson.I mean WilliamI'm sorry if you are feeling left out in this thread, but I think that if you wait it out, your opportunities will present themselves.G xponent The All Inclusive Oz Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Becoming a Compassionless Conservative
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 8:34 PM Subject: Re: SCOUTED: Becoming a Compassionless Conservative How is this mother any different than the neglectful wealthy parents of such worthless scum as Paris Hilton? Thats a rhetorical question, right?!!! G xponent Stepping Into Ronn!'s Territory Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: SCOUTED: Becoming a Compassionless Con servative
How is this mother any different than the neglectful wealthy parents of such worthless scum as Paris Hilton? Thats a rhetorical question, right?!!! G If you mean, that it answers itself (and the answer is, not in any significant way), then yes. Tom Beck www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: RIDDLES: Yet another thread for fun.
In a message dated 12/22/2003 8:17:33 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And that preview was...? (Sorry if this was asked before, I've been having some unexpected trouble switching over to a new email address, and lost a bunch of messages...) It was some totally non action flick, that was I think New Line, so that was why it was run, and run first. I cannot remember anything about it. Mainly because I too was wondering at the time why the Bilbo with a D was this preview being run. Maybe imdb can do a search by New Line and 2004 Last Full Measure? Could be. No matter how good the movie might be, the crowd wanted only action flick previews. No body booed Spiderman 2. William Taylor ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.
Travis Edmunds wrote: A rose by any other name ...is the sexual organ of a thorny shrub ;-) (I wish I could remember where I first heard that...) Reggie Bautista _ Get dial-up Internet access now with our best offer: 6 months @$9.95/month! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In Music
- Original Message - From: Travis Edmunds [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 8:47 PM Subject: RE: Science Fiction In Music Well this is right up my alley. You're talking to the resident music freak here! There's 4 or 5 here to keep you company.G First of all though let me point out something. You said you'd like some suggestions and criticisms. Well here's where I criticize: Although the music mentioned certainly has sf/f themes, I don't think that's the sole basis of the music itself. Sure some may be quite literally 100% influenced by sf/f, but I think (I hesitate to use the word majority) some of that music might just be music, and the whole sf/f themes or influences thing may just be wishful thinking. This is just my opinion though... No No NO...Its a perfectly valid point. A point similar to discussions I have been involved in many times over the years. There is a gray area where themes may seem to be implied, yet not explicitly stated. The examples I gave are ones where the theme is either explicit in the lyrics, or verified in some other way by the creator(s). (Such as in liner notes or in interviews) This by itself can be voluminous discussion.G On to some suggestions. Bands like Iron Maiden and Iced Earth cater to the over the top dungeons dragons type metal, which in a way could be considered Fantasmal themes. The song Electric Eye by Judas Priest deals with satellite surveillance. Yngwie Malmsteen does the whole dungeons dragons bit as well. Current Guns N Roses lead guitarist Buckethead has done instrumental work for the likes of Dragon Ball Z movies. Some might even consider the tune Judgement Day by Whitesnake a fantasy oriented song of sorts. Monster Magnet in the song Look To Your Orb For The Warning talks about the spaceship/landed at your doorstep. This is what I was looking for actually. Music I never heard or didn't think of. Many, many bands/artists/songs with sf/f themes. However I find myself asking this question: is it just wishful thinking for the most part? I don't think so. I think its an artifact of recent generations. Especially since Sputnik. -Travis not trying to take the fun out of this at all Edmunds xponent You Are Helpful Actually Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Filtering
- Original Message - From: Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:19 PM Subject: Re: Filtering Julia Thompson wrote: What do you mean by discuss the weather? I feel highly offended when you all start talking about snow in Christmas, and I have 41 deg in the termometer! 41? You lucky dog -- I only have 18[1]. (No snow here either.) The minimum in Texas is 18? Even here we have some temperatures slightly below that, in Winter. The coldest I've seen it in Houston was around 15F. Not often mind you, but it gets below 0C every year, at least for some period of time. xponent Dirt Bunny, No Snow Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Outlandish but exceedingly fun.
In a message dated 12/22/2003 8:27:57 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Matt wrote: -- Matt ...who wonders whether the monkeys' script revisions for Hamlet were any good... Is this possible? Hamlet was perfect, after all ;-) Reggie Bautista ::Picks up script at random:: The playdough's the thing, where we may catch the Conga line of the king. Hmm... It all depends on what you're looking for. Vilyehm Teighlore ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In Music
In a message dated 12/22/2003 8:42:51 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: agree. Mars is still one of my favorite classical pieces. (Even though it has been overused to the point that it almost a mockery of itself.) The same goes for Carmina Burana (horrible spelling probably.) And Benson Arizona! I'm not familiar with that one. Can you tell me anything about it? It's in the SF movie Dark Star, written by the FX guy named...um... Bill Taylor. Someone more expert on the movie has stated that the water music was from a real composer. That could go on the list as well. William Taylor No relation. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Return of the King
I saw it today. I thought it was a great movie. At the end, Dan turned to me and said that we could tell Sammy that he was named after Samwise. :) (He hasn't read Lord of the Rings yet, so he wasn't familiar with Samwise.) My only complaint was that at one point, there's a mother with an upset baby, and that's just the point at which your body is telling you it's time to feed a baby if you're lactating and managed to escape for a few hours to see the movie. Letdown (i.e., milk moving in the breast towards the nipple) can be uncomfortable at times, especially if there's no baby there to be extracting milk, and this time was no exception. But that's just me and a few other people, most of the moviegoing population doesn't have to worry about this. :) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science Fiction In Music
Well this is right up my alley. You're talking to the resident music freak here! First of all though let me point out something. You said you'd like some suggestions and criticisms. Well here's where I criticize: Although the music mentioned certainly has sf/f themes, I don't think that's the sole basis of the music itself. Sure some may be quite literally 100% influenced by sf/f, but I think (I hesitate to use the word majority) some of that music might just be music, and the whole sf/f themes or influences thing may just be wishful thinking. This is just my opinion though... On to some suggestions. Bands like Iron Maiden and Iced Earth cater to the over the top dungeons dragons type metal, which in a way could be considered Fantasmal themes. The song Electric Eye by Judas Priest deals with satellite surveillance. Yngwie Malmsteen does the whole dungeons dragons bit as well. Current Guns N Roses lead guitarist Buckethead has done instrumental work for the likes of Dragon Ball Z movies. Some might even consider the tune Judgement Day by Whitesnake a fantasy oriented song of sorts. Monster Magnet in the song Look To Your Orb For The Warning talks about the spaceship/landed at your doorstep. Many, many bands/artists/songs with sf/f themes. However I find myself asking this question: is it just wishful thinking for the most part? -Travis not trying to take the fun out of this at all Edmunds I'm not trying to be confrontational, but you'd have to carry a lot of water to say you are the (sorry Nick) resident music freak. I have to side with Rob. BOC is very SF. In fact (much to my delight) he didn't list Sole Survivor, close to my favorite song, with Secret Treaties being my favorite album. (But I'll admit to not knowing Black Blade, never heard of it). How does a band from New York City end up writing such messed up lyrics? The worst mistake ever made was choosing Sammy Hager's Heavy Metal over BOCs for the title song of the soundtrack . (Well, now that the song is in my head, it is a little light.) I can think of no other bands that have music that deals so much in SF. Would the themes of Boston's first three albums qualify? Only one or two songs were SFish, but they had the cover art. Iron Madien also has Stranger in a Strange Land and To Tame A Land (about Dune). Not fantasy DnD at all. I don't think any of Pink Floyd's music is SF related. It works as a soundtrack, but not as directly as the above. Heck, they are more agrarian than futuristic. What about Devo? The Devolution theme is SFish, but none of their songs really fit the bill. Can't add any more right now. I only flipped the 'puter on because of insomnia. Hopefully my 15 hour working day tomorrow will fix that. Kevin T. - VRWC Off to bed, perchance to dream ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In Music
- Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 10:25 PM Subject: Re: Science Fiction In Music In a message dated 12/22/2003 8:42:51 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And Benson Arizona! I'm not familiar with that one. Can you tell me anything about it? It's in the SF movie Dark Star, written by the FX guy named...um... Bill Taylor. Ahhh...OK.I have that on DVD. I also saw the movie in its first nationwide theatrical release. Dan O'Bannon had something to do with it too I think. (He's the guy who created the Eat Your Brains Zombie movies, not the Farscape fellow) Someone more expert on the movie has stated that the water music was from a real composer. That could go on the list as well. Really? I would have thought that was John Carpenter. (He scores most of his own films) xponent Old SciFi Fanatic Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science Fiction In Music
In a message dated 12/22/2003 10:04:55 PM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: He is still pretty new here. So he deserves some slack. Besides he seems like a pretty nice guy IMO. No harm. No foul. On the other hand, if you try to put slacks on most fowl, you will come to harm. On the other other hand, I think the most modern straight vocal music album I have is by Cab Calloway. I think the best rendition of a Beatles song I have is Peter Sellers doing a shakespearean rendition of Hard Days Night in the voice of Sir Laurence Olivier. So I have no idea what da hell most of you are talking about. William Taylor All in all just another Buick in the wall. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
