Re: Jethro Tull Question

[G. D. Akin]

Travis Edmunds asked:

> Been listening to a fair bit of Tull lately, and I came across something
> odd. There is a song - Quiz Kid - that starts off exactly the same way
as -
> Too Old To Rock N' Roll...Too Young To Die - before morphing into it's own
> thing. Just wondering if anyone knows anything it.

--

In "Jethro Tull: A History of the Band 1968-2001", I couldn't find any
reference to what you have noticed.

All is that is mentioned is, "'Quizz Kid' opens the album, its
straight-ahead rock and roll tone providing an effective score for
Anderson's critique of television games shows that were wnormously popular
during the late 1960s and early 1970s."

George "not the kind you have to wind up on Sunday" A



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Re: BetaVote

[Ray Ludenia]

Robert G. Seeberger wrote:

> Very very unscientific. But it is humorous to look at what various
> countries are purported to desire in the upcoming election here.
> 
> http://www.betavote.com/
> 
> One can only wonder if there is even a shred of accuracy in this poll.
> (Not that it matters a bit)
> 

Results for Australia seem to match a reliable poll I saw recently which
obtained the same result of 15% support for Bush, if memory serves
correctly. The question posed was: if you had a vote in the US presidential
election, who would you vote for?

Bloody ignorant Aussies! 15%! You'd expect us to know better.

Regards, Ray.

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Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

[Warren Ockrassa]

On Aug 22, 2004, at 2:04 AM, Erik Reuter wrote:
On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 06:52:55PM -0700, Warren Ockrassa wrote:
Otherwise I think I'll have to continue with my view that, until
medicine became a science, there was no knowledge in the human species
that alcohol didn't warm the body.
Noted.
:D
This is interesting as well; are you seriously suggesting that cocaine
and alcohol are equivalent substances?
No. Are you?
Good golly no.
-- WthmO
If obesity is genetic,
why are so many American dogs fat too?
--
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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[Nick Arnett]

Erik Reuter wrote:
Sounds a bit paranoid to me. The article is almost completely lacking in
specific facts, which should set off warning bells. What, specifically,
are the problems with the sentencing guidelines, and what did Block and
Nold offer as better alternatives? Why won't the author of the article
reveal his real name?
You mean Cringely?  His real name isn't a big secret... There were a few 
occasions in 1988 when his real name was "Nick Arnett," actually.

Nick
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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[Nick Arnett]

Erik Reuter wrote:
As a pseudonym, sure. How many people do you think have written under
it?
Five or six, I think.  But Mark Stephens took personal ownership of it a 
number of years ago (to the chagrin of IDG, I think), so he's the only 
one using it now.  And that's his picture by the columns.

Nick
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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[Nick Arnett]

Robert Seeberger wrote:
But few outside of InfoWorld know of the ruse. In "Nerds," Mr.
Stephens, in
Cringely mode, tooled around Silicon Valley in his red Thunderbird
convertible, interviewing dozens of tech luminaries such as Bill
Gates, Paul
Allen and Steve Jobs. Most of them didn't know Cringely is just a pen
name.
Oh, baloney.  Everybody knew, especially since everybody on staff at 
InfoWorld contributed to the column and one of us, often me, wrote it 
when Mark was on vacation.  Mark also covered technology for InfoWorld 
under his own name, so almost anybody who was anybody in the technology 
industry was aware that they were usually the same person.

Mr.
Stephens introduces himself as "Bob Cringely," has a credit card in
Cringely's
name and sometimes ponders real-life options by wondering what
Cringely would
do.
Mark is an unusual guy in various ways.  His own sister told me not to 
believe everything he says, something that I had somewhat figured outon 
my own.  But he's a terrific reporter and writer -- certainly not alone 
in that field in his quirks.

Nick
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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[Erik Reuter]

On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 09:58:25AM -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:

> You mean Cringely?  His real name isn't a big secret... There were a
> few occasions in 1988 when his real name was "Nick Arnett," actually.

Yes, I am well aware, as you have repeatedly pointed it out.


-- 
Erik Reuter   http://www.erikreuter.net/
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Re: BetaVote

[Alberto Monteiro]

Ray Ludenia wrote:
>
> Results for Australia seem to match a reliable poll I saw recently which
> obtained the same result of 15% support for Bush, if memory serves
> correctly. The question posed was: if you had a vote in the US presidential
> election, who would you vote for?
>
> Bloody ignorant Aussies! 15%! You'd expect us to know better.
>
I was also surprised to see how few brazilians voted for Bush.
It means that either:

(a) anti-americanism is low outside the USA _and_ we believe
that Bush is a jerk, so that we want the best for the USA

-or-

(b) anti-americanism is high outside the USA _and_ we
believe that Kerry is a jerk, so that we want the worse for the USA

Which means that one propaganda that we see all the
time in the news (either the anti-americanism meme or
the "Bush is an idiot" meme) hasn't convinced anyone.

Alberto Monteiro

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Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

[Deborah Harrell]

> Warren Ockrassa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 
> Alberto's ancestors are not unique; IIRC it's still
> common today in 
> rural areas of Europe for wines to be served at
> every meal, the vintage 
> diluted with 50% water for the kiddies. Whether it
> has anything to do 
> with keeping warm (or cool, or anything else) is
> really a null point; 
> it's just how life is lived there.
> 
> I'm still curious about the "immoral" aspect of
> giving booze to kids, 
> though (and I can't recall who said it was) -- I
> find it an interesting 
> assertion, one that needs some support before I can
> accept it as even 
> being a point that can be argued. At least as a
> blanket, all-inclusive and arbitrary declaration.

>From a modern medical standpoint, children drinking
alcohol is detrimental, as alcohol is a neurotoxin;
developing brains are more vulnerable than adult
brains (and since our brains are still remodeling
quite a bit through age ~21yr, college kids
binge-drinking is harmful).  But from a survival
standpoint, it was sensible to for all to drink
(watered) wine, as decent drinking water was not often
available to our ancestors, and cholera/typhoid/polio
etc. etc. were frequently fatal.After all,
how many brain cells do you need to do
near-subsistance agricultural labor?  (As opposed to
more skilled labor, or reading/writing.)

A sip of communion wine is not going to
physiologically impact a child to any significant
degree, although - recalling my first taste of wine -
it might make them wonder why folk want to drink it! 
[My parents let me drink a little of whatever they
were having when I turned 16...I assure you that
Lancer's Rose` nearly made me swear off all
alcohol...but Kahlua changed my mind!]  ;)

I didn't know that the Eucharist wine and bread were
considered co-equal in the Catholic Church; we
(Lutheran ELCA) always used both, although grape juice
was available (in individual cuplets at the altar
rail) for teetotalers.  In college, it was - for those
who had access to kitchens - a matter of pride to bake
a decent loaf of bread to use for Wed. night services.

Debbi
Watching The Ponies Parallel Prance Maru   ;D




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Re: Government Plan to Test Prescription Stimulant on Children

[Deborah Harrell]

 Ronn!Blankenship <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
<>
> 
> PLAN TO TEST PRESCRIPTION STIMULANT
> A government plan to test the effects of a
> prescription stimulant on 
> children's brains has triggered a rare request for a
> special review to 
> determine whether it meets safety and ethical
> guidelines.
> 
> Researchers at the National Institute of Mental
> Health in Bethesda, Md., 
> want to test the effects of a single 10 milligram
> dose of dextroamphetamine 
> on brain activity in at least 76 children, ages 9 to
> 18. All the children 
> would receive a placebo, a dummy pill containing no
> drugs on their first 
> visit; subsequently, they would receive the
> dextroamphetamine.
> 
> Dextroamphetamine is already used to treat some
> children with attention 
> deficit problems. The brand name drug, Dexedrine, is
> one example of a pill 
> that contains dextroamphetamine.
 
> But experts in medical ethics and health law have
> questioned some aspects of the proposed research.
> 
> "The general rule is you don't do research on kids
> this young," said 
> Leonard Glantz, a health law professor at the Boston
> University School of 
> Public Health, in an interview. "The question is how
> important is this information, how vital?"
> 
> An institutional review board - questioning the
> safety of the research and 
> the $570 each child would receive for participating
> in the study - voted 
> 6-5 last fall not to approve it. The board
> determined that while the 
> proposal would not benefit the children, it did have
> scientific merit.
 
> HHS and Food and Drug Administration officials plan
> a Sept. 10 public 
> meeting on the issues. FDA is involved because it
> regulates prescription 
> drugs. The HHS special review panel and the FDA must
> both approve the research.

This seems dark grey to me. It is one thing to test a
potentially helpful drug on children with a medical 
condition and, as a control group, use a placebo on
another group of children with the same condition
(preferably with a crossover at the end of one phase
of the trial); it is another to give a potentially
harmful drug to healthy children (without any medical
condition).

While there are some children who truly benefit from
ritalin-type drug therapy, I do think that ADD/ADHD is
vastly over-diagnosed.  Subjecting hyperactive
toddlers to years of brain-chemical-altering drugs, as
is occurring 'in the field' right now, may
unfortunately tell us quite a lot about these drugs'
long-term effects in a decade or so...  >:/

Debbi



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Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

[Damon Agretto]

> >From a modern medical standpoint, children drinking
> alcohol is detrimental, as alcohol is a neurotoxin;
> developing brains are more vulnerable than adult
> brains (and since our brains are still remodeling
> quite a bit through age ~21yr, college kids
> binge-drinking is harmful).  But from a survival
> standpoint, it was sensible to for all to drink
> (watered) wine, as decent drinking water was not
> often
> available to our ancestors, and
> cholera/typhoid/polio
> etc. etc. were frequently fatal.After
> all,
> how many brain cells do you need to do
> near-subsistance agricultural labor?  (As opposed to
> more skilled labor, or reading/writing.)

Well not all our ancestors were out in the fields
braking up dirt clods with clubs!

Is there a certain point above which detrimental
effects begin to occur in children, or is alcohol in
any form bad? FREX, is the alcohol in cough syrup at a
level that is detrimental, or is there too little to
have any significant effect? I'm thinking on a
sustained bases here (i.e. daily).

Certainly pre-modern civilizations have had their
luminaries, and unless some new evidence comes to
light, its only natural to assume that some drank wine
or alcohol as children, in some form or another
(primarily thinking about Rome and Europe here, don't
really know about other cultures).

Damon.


=

Damon Agretto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."
http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html
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Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

[William T Goodall]

On 19 Aug 2004, at 4:26 pm, Dan Minette wrote:
- Original Message -
From: "Doug Pensinger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 2:02 AM
Subject: Re: The Mercies of The Vatican
.
As for bigotry in America, put yourself in the shoes of an 
non-believer
for a moment and you'll feel real bigotry.

Out of curiosity, are you actually told that you are deluded, have a 
mental
block, evil on a daily basis because you don't believe?
All you need to do is get rid of your delusions, drop your mental 
blocks, and stop your evil practices and you wouldn't be feeling so 
tetchy about this. That can't be hard for an intelligent man with free 
will like yourself surely?

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
tried it.
-- Donald E. Knuth
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Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[Deborah Harrell]

> Damon Agretto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >[I wrote:]

> > >From a modern medical standpoint, children
> > drinking alcohol is detrimental, as alcohol is a
> neurotoxin;
> > developing brains are more vulnerable than adult
> > brainsBut from a survival
> > standpoint, it was sensible to for all to drink
> > (watered) wine, as decent drinking water was not
> > often available to our ancestors, and
> > cholera/typhoid/polio
> > etc. etc. were frequently fatal  
> > how many brain cells do you need to do
> > near-subsistance agricultural labor?  
 
> Well not all our ancestors were out in the fields
> braking up dirt clods with clubs!

  No...really??!  ;)
 
> Is there a certain point above which detrimental
> effects begin to occur in children, or is alcohol in
> any form bad? FREX, is the alcohol in cough syrup at
> a
> level that is detrimental, or is there too little to
> have any significant effect? I'm thinking on a
> sustained bases here (i.e. daily).

There has been no deliberate research on children, for
ethical reasons, WRT alcohol effects on the brain; I
think it unlikely for enough alcohol from recommended
OTC dosages of cough syrup to impact the brain (IOW,
enough ethanol will be metabolized before it can reach
brain cells to avoid demonstrable impact), although
there is no question that if one drinks enough cough
syrup or vanilla made with ethanol, brain cells will
be affected.  There is a lot of research on animal
models, and some in-vitro studies as well.  See below.

Alcohol causes developing neurons to undergo
apoptosis, or cell death, earlier than they 'ought' to
by altering internal cellular chemistry:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14741749
By altering glutamate and GABA transmission
alcohol suppresses neuronal activity, causing millions
of nerve cells to commit suicide in the developing
brain. This proapoptotic effect of alcohol provides a
likely explanation for the diminished brain size and
lifelong neurobehavioral disturbances associated with
the human fetal alcohol syndrome.  These findings have
public health significance, not only in relation to
fetal alcohol syndrome, but also in relation to
several other drugs of abuse and various drugs used in
obstetric and pediatric medicine, because these
additional drugs (e.g. phencyclidine, ketamine,
benzodiazepines, barbiturates) also suppress neuronal
activity and drive developing neurons to commit
suicide.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10852851
[a sort of overview WRT brain neurotoxins, 2000]
"Critical periods of vulnerability for the developing
nervous system: evidence from humans and animal
models"
 
> Certainly pre-modern civilizations have had their
> luminaries, and unless some new evidence comes to
> light, its only natural to assume that some drank
> wine or alcohol as children, in some form or another
> (primarily thinking about Rome and Europe here)

I really don't know how much it would take to
measurably impact intellect; our brains are pretty
bloody amazing, and the damage they can sustain before
it becomes 'visible' varies from person to person.  It
has become evident from recent research that neural
stem cells *do* exist past infancy, and can
differentiate i.e. some repair of brain function *is*
possible after neuron destruction.  Ethanol affects
not only the fetal developing brain, but adult
neurogenensis as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12817652
[2003] Recent findings concerning the regenerative
potential of the adult brain suggest a more pronounced
plasticity than previously thought. One such finding
is the generation of new neurons in the adult brain
(neurogenesis). Loss of neurons has long been
considered to be irreversible in the adult human
brain, i.e., dead neurons are not replaced. The
inability to generate replacement cells is thought to
be an important cause of neurological disease and
impairment. In most brain regions, the generation of
neurons is generally confined to a discrete
developmental period. Exceptions have recently been
described in several regions of the brain that have
been shown to generate new neurons well into the
postnatal and adult period. One of the best
characterized regions is the subgranular zone of the
dentate gyrus in the brain, where granule neurons are
generated throughout life from a population of
progenitor/ stem cells. Furthermore, recent findings
suggest that neurogenesis may be of importance for
memory function as well as mood disorders. Several
very important questions can be formulated on the
basis of these discoveries, for instance, what factors
influence the generation of new neurons and whether it
is possible for enhanced neurogenesis to contribute to
functional recovery.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=

Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Deborah Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 2:28 PM
Subject: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)



> various extracts (like vanilla) contain miniscule
> amounts of ethanol

In that case, Jack Daniels contains miniscule amounts of ethanol.  Vanilla
is 'bout 80 proof. :-)

Dan M.


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Re: Jethro Tull Question

[Deborah Harrell]

> Travis Edmunds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Been listening to a fair bit of Tull lately

Orion will soon be visible over the horizon.

Dark Ages is not a term that has valuable meaning,
according to Damon.   ;)

Heavy Horses will be strutting their stuff at this
weekend's Old Tyme Country Fair and Carriage Races -
http://www.coloradohorsepark.com/visitor/html/visit_shows_august.html

My diving friends depend on their Aqualung (s).

There are an awful lot of folk in this world who are
Thick as a Brick...

Debbi 
Whose Mouse Police Also Handle Voles And Various Birds
Maru   ;)



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Re: Jethro Tull Question

[Damon Agretto]

> Dark Ages is not a term that has valuable meaning,
> according to Damon.   ;)

Ah, thanks for remembering! :)

Damon.


=

Damon Agretto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."
http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html
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Re: New Elements

[Deborah Harrell]

> "Robert G. Seeberger" wrote:
 

>  [Wo]  Chemical Properties:  Very active.  Highly
> unstable.  Possesses strong affinity to gold, 
> silver, platinum, and precious stones

Hey!  They left out puppies, kittens and cute stuffed
toy animals!  

>   Caution:  Highly explosive in inexperienced hands.



>  [XY]  Usage:  None really, except methane
> production.  Good samples are able
>   to produce large quantities on command.

Oh, I can think of *several* other things in this
category...  
 
Debbi
who actually just last week unboxed her collection of
Stieff and various other stuffed toy animals for the
first time since 1996...including Tigger->White Fang->
Yavanna, her companion tiger since kindergarten,
repaired-with-practice-mattress-sutures and all...   :)



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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[William T Goodall]

On 23 Aug 1980, at 8:46 pm, Dan Minette wrote:
- Original Message -
From: "Deborah Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 2:28 PM
Subject: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

various extracts (like vanilla) contain miniscule
amounts of ethanol
In that case, Jack Daniels contains miniscule amounts of ethanol.  
Vanilla
is 'bout 80 proof. :-)
Minimum 70-proof required by the FDA in the USA at any rate.  Maybe the 
minuscule refers to the fact it's mostly bought in 1 oz bottles for 
home use.

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run 
out of things they can do with UNIX." - Ken Olsen, President of DEC, 
1984.

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Episodes VII, VIII, IX

[The Fool]

<>

Lucas to make more Star Wars? 

21/08/2004 - 22:18:27 

Star Wars creator George Lucas could be poised to make three sequels to
the original space opera trilogy, according to insiders at Lucasfilm.

According to fan site Theforce.net, employees at Lucas's company
Industrial Light and Magic have all been made to sign non-disclosure
agreements to promise not to talk about the possibility of episode's
seven, eight and nine being made.

Now industry insiders are predicting the director will make the
follow-ups, which pick up where 1983's Return of the Jedi left off,
despite insisting he would never be lured into filming them.

A posting on the site says, "You didn't hear this from me, but you might
be curious as to why everyone at ILM just signed NDA's saying that they
will not discuss Star Wars episodes 7, 8, or 9.

"Since they're not being made, why the NDA's? Of course, since when has
Lucas been consistent?"

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Re: Episodes VII, VIII, IX

[Medievalbk]

 
In a message dated 8/23/2004 1:59:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

A posting on the site says, "You didn't hear this from me, but you might
be curious as to why everyone at ILM just signed NDA's saying that they
will not discuss Star Wars episodes 7, 8, or 9.

"Since they're not being made, why the NDA's? Of course, since when has
Lucas been consistent?"


Maybe he's found more Japanese films to steal ideas from.
 
That's one thing he's been consistent with.
 
Vilyehm
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Re: Episodes VII, VIII, IX

[William T Goodall]

On 23 Aug 2004, at 9:58 pm, The Fool wrote:
<>

Lucas to make more Star Wars?
I hope not!
--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
Misuse of IMPs leads to strange, difficult-to-diagnose bugs.
- Anguish et al. "Cocoa Programming"
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Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

[Travis Edmunds]

From: Warren Ockrassa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The Mercies of The Vatican
Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 18:52:55 -0700

If you can't beat 'em,
have 'em flogged.
After we establish that no hint of plagiarism is being hinted at...(that's 
been established now right?)

Are those your own quotes?
-Travis "a dash of Solomon...gotta love it" Edmunds
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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[Julia Randolph]

On Sat, 23 Aug 1980 14:46:27 -0500, Dan Minette
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Deborah Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 2:28 PM
> Subject: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)
> 
> > various extracts (like vanilla) contain miniscule
> > amounts of ethanol
> 
> In that case, Jack Daniels contains miniscule amounts of ethanol.  Vanilla
> is 'bout 80 proof. :-)

I thought it was higher than that.

I was told at some point that to calculate "proof", you multiplied
%age alcohol by 2.  (The only bottle of anything I have handy that
lists "proof" bears this out, it being 30% alchohol and 60 proof.)

Now, my vanilla extract bottle doesn' t give that information, but my
bottle of peppermint extract is 89% alcohol, according to the label. 
And someone who was interested in the question looked at a whole bunch
of labels and determined that a certain brand of wintergreen extract
had the highest alcohol content available, of everything in that
grocery store; it was over 90% alcohol.  So that would be over 180
proof, right?

And I believe that while some of the alcohol cooks out, not all of it does.

But if you're making a large batch of cookies with several pounds of
ingredients, and only a couple of tablespoons of vanilla extract, the
remaining alcohol will be quite diluted by the rest of the
ingredients.  (Adding vanilla extract to whipping cream before
whipping, instead of using sugar, will give you a higher alcohol
content, but still fairly negligible compared to the stuff it's in. 
Vanilla extract is nice stuff, lends a good flavor to all sorts of
things.)

Julia
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Re: Episodes VII, VIII, IX

[kerry miller]

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  
> In a message dated 8/23/2004 1:59:23 PM US Mountain Standard Time, 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> 
> A posting on the site says, "You didn't hear this from me, but you
> might
> be curious as to why everyone at ILM just signed NDA's saying that
> they
> will not discuss Star Wars episodes 7, 8, or 9.
> 
> "Since they're not being made, why the NDA's? Of course, since when
> has
> Lucas been consistent?"
> 
> 
> Maybe he's found more Japanese films to steal ideas from.
>  
> That's one thing he's been consistent with.

That and sucking harder with each new film.. *sigh*  so many missed opportunities!



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Re: Jethro Tull Question

[Travis Edmunds]

From: "G. D. Akin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Jethro Tull Question
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:59:31 +0900

In "Jethro Tull: A History of the Band 1968-2001", I couldn't find any
reference to what you have noticed.
All is that is mentioned is, "'Quizz Kid' opens the album, its
straight-ahead rock and roll tone providing an effective score for
Anderson's critique of television games shows that were wnormously popular
during the late 1960s and early 1970s."
The two songs open identical to one another (IDENTICAL = SIMILAR for the 
elitist in some of us). It's been a couple of days since I listened to them, 
but I can tell you that the music and the lyrics are the same (musically 
they may be slightly different).

For the sake of discussion though, combined with the fact that I can be as 
lazy as they come, does anyone know which song was released first?

-Travis
_
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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[Julia Randolph]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 21:35:19 +0100, William T Goodall
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On 23 Aug 1980, at 8:46 pm, Dan Minette wrote:
> 
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Deborah Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 2:28 PM
> > Subject: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)
> >
> >
> >
> >> various extracts (like vanilla) contain miniscule
> >> amounts of ethanol
> >
> > In that case, Jack Daniels contains miniscule amounts of ethanol.
> > Vanilla
> > is 'bout 80 proof. :-)
> 
> Minimum 70-proof required by the FDA in the USA at any rate.  Maybe the
> minuscule refers to the fact it's mostly bought in 1 oz bottles for
> home use.

My bottle, unlabelled as to alcohol content, is an 8-ounce bottle. 
But that may be the biggest bottle I can buy.  (I haven't looked
lately, as an 8-ounce bottle lasts me for awhile.)  The peppermint
extract bottle is 1 ounce.

It's used in miniscule quantities in recipes, at least in comparison
with other ingredients.  Even if you buy a huge bottle at the
warehouse club (say, something on the order of a liter or so), you're
still not using a lot in comparison with what you're mixing it into.

Julia
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Re: Jethro Tull Question

[Travis Edmunds]

From: Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Jethro Tull Question
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 12:49:30 -0700 (PDT)
> Travis Edmunds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Been listening to a fair bit of Tull lately
Orion will soon be visible over the horizon.
Dark Ages is not a term that has valuable meaning,
according to Damon.   ;)
Heavy Horses will be strutting their stuff at this
weekend's Old Tyme Country Fair and Carriage Races -
http://www.coloradohorsepark.com/visitor/html/visit_shows_august.html
My diving friends depend on their Aqualung (s).
There are an awful lot of folk in this world who are
Thick as a Brick...
Combining all of those together creates a Rare and Precious Chain...
-Travis "she bent down to load the icebox" Edmunds
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Re: New Elements

[Travis Edmunds]

From: Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: New Elements
Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 13:12:44 -0700 (PDT)

Debbi
who actually just last week unboxed her collection of
Stieff and various other stuffed toy animals for the
first time since 1996...including Tigger->White Fang->
White Fang? Is it 'official'?
I love White Fang, but he's got nothin' on Ole Yeller. Yeller is *my* dog.
*Did anyone get that?
-Travis "best doggone dog in the West"
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Re: Episodes VII, VIII, IX

[Damon Agretto]

Wow! This is craptastic! I can't wait!

Damon, waiting to see Gundams in the next episode...


=

Damon Agretto
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."
http://www.geocities.com/garrand.geo/index.html
Now Building: 




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Re: New Elements

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "Deborah Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: New Elements


> > "Robert G. Seeberger" wrote:
> 
>
> >  [XY]  Usage:  None really, except methane
> > production.  Good samples are able
> >   to produce large quantities on command.
>
> Oh, I can think of *several* other things in this
> category...  
>
Looking forward to the Debra Sutra.
Coming to a webcam near you


xponent
Instigator Maru
rob


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Re: Jethro Tull Question

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "Travis Edmunds" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Jethro Tull Question


>
> >From: "G. D. Akin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Re: Jethro Tull Question
> >Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 17:59:31 +0900
>
> >In "Jethro Tull: A History of the Band 1968-2001", I couldn't find
any
> >reference to what you have noticed.
> >
> >All is that is mentioned is, "'Quizz Kid' opens the album, its
> >straight-ahead rock and roll tone providing an effective score for
> >Anderson's critique of television games shows that were wnormously
popular
> >during the late 1960s and early 1970s."
>
> The two songs open identical to one another (IDENTICAL = SIMILAR for
the
> elitist in some of us). It's been a couple of days since I listened
to them,
> but I can tell you that the music and the lyrics are the same
(musically
> they may be slightly different).
>
> For the sake of discussion though, combined with the fact that I can
be as
> lazy as they come, does anyone know which song was released first?
>
They are from the same album, Too Old To Rock'N'Roll Too Young To Die.

xponent
Deathrow Tull Maru
rob


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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[Dave Land]

On Aug 23, 2004, at 2:44 PM, Julia Randolph wrote:
It's used in miniscule quantities in recipes, at least in comparison
with other ingredients.  Even if you buy a huge bottle at the
warehouse club (say, something on the order of a liter or so), you're
still not using a lot in comparison with what you're mixing it into.
Not only that, but many things that contain vanilla (or peppermint) 
extract are baked or otherwise heated after the alcohol-containing 
ingredient is added, so the amount of alcohol per serving is not only 
miniscule, it may be non-existent.

The alcohol in Vanilla Extract is, at least in the USA, legal 
requirement: FDA regulations require at least 35% alcohol, but there 
does not appear to be an upper limit. I was told by my grandmother that 
it was not unusual for women who wanted to get high (but didn't want to 
drink the so-called hard stuff) to take a hit off the vanilla bottle 
from time to time. I guess they got baked without having do to any 
baking...

Dave
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Re: BetaVote

[Russell Chapman]

Robert G. Seeberger wrote:
Very very unscientific. But it is humorous to look at what various
countries are purported to desire in the upcoming election here.
http://www.betavote.com/
What I found interesting was that it seems the more a country has to do 
with the USA, the stronger the Kerry vote. The closer trading partners 
were the most "anti-bush" (eg Western Europe/UK, Australia/NZ etc).

You also have to wonder what Bush has done to the Nordics - Iceland, 
Sweden and Finland are the new Kerry Heartland...

Of course, its validity is somewhat diminished by the geographical 
distribution of the voters compared to the world's population 
distribution. (I mean more votes from Cocos/Keeling islands than Korea, 
Guam, Jordan, Burma, Panama, Peru? There's like 3 people living there...)

Cheers
Russell C.
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Re: New (recycled) member intro

[Russell Chapman]

Robert Seeberger wrote:
Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.
xponent
No One Expects The Lyric Salutation Maru
rob

No one expects *anyone* to remember the lyrics from really cheesy 70s TV 
shows... (or at least for anyone to admit to it...)

Cheers
Russell C.

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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[Warren Ockrassa]

On Aug 23, 2004, at 2:33 PM, Julia Randolph wrote:
But if you're making a large batch of cookies with several pounds of
ingredients, and only a couple of tablespoons of vanilla extract, the
remaining alcohol will be quite diluted by the rest of the
ingredients.
Indeed -- one could say that the alcohol content would be proximally as 
potent (and have as much measurable effect) as a homeopathic 
preparation.

You're right about calculating proof: %alc * 2.
-- WthmO
Killing an earthworm stops four beating hearts.
--
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Re: The Mercies of The Vatican

[Warren Ockrassa]

On Aug 23, 2004, at 2:21 PM, Travis Edmunds wrote:
If you can't beat 'em,
have 'em flogged.
After we establish that no hint of plagiarism is being hinted 
at...(that's been established now right?)

Are those your own quotes?
TTBOMK, yes. I suppose one could say it's a goal of mine to pith people 
off.

;)
-- WthmO
This email is a work of fiction. Any similarity between its contents 
and any truth, entire or partial, is purely coincidental and should not 
be misconstrued.
--

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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

> The alcohol in Vanilla Extract is, at least in the USA, legal
> requirement: FDA regulations require at least 35% alcohol, but there
> does not appear to be an upper limit. I was told by my grandmother that
> it was not unusual for women who wanted to get high (but didn't want to
> drink the so-called hard stuff) to take a hit off the vanilla bottle
> from time to time. I guess they got baked without having do to any
> baking...

I've heard stories about that too; a women being happy her alcoholic
husband stopped drinking but wondered why he developed such a taste for
vanilla.

With kids, I was thinking more about comparing a sip of communion wine with
eating home made vanilla ice cream.  I know that 100 people can sip about 4
oz of wine for communion, but lets be generous and say 100 sip=8 oz. .  So,
one person  sips  .08 oz.  At 12.5% alcohol, that's about 0.01 oz of pure
alcohol. Then, lets look at a child's home made vanilla ice cream recipe I
pulled off the web:


Homemade Vanilla Ice Cream recipe for kids (or anyone wanting something
quick and delicious!)
  Ingredients:
  1/2 pint (250ml) single/light cream, small tin of condensed milk, 1-2
teaspoons vanilla extract (according to taste)


This makes about 1 pint or 16 oz.  Lets say the child makes it with 2
teaspoons, and each of two kids gets one cup of ice cream each.  That is
one teaspoon of vanilla per child. There are three teaspoons in a
tablespoon and two tablespoons in an oz: a teaspoon is 1/6 oz or .1666 oz.
Multiple by 40%, and each child has 0.067 oz of pure alcohol, more than 6x
the communion sip.

Dan M.


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Re: Swift-Boat Liars for Shrub

[William T Goodall]

On 20 Aug 2004, at 2:53 pm, The Fool wrote:
<>

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB9ATWE2YD.html
"WASHINGTON (AP) - Military records appear to contradict claims by a  
vocal critic of Sen. John Kerry that the Democratic presidential  
candidate lied about coming under gunfire during a mission in Vietnam,  
according to The Washington Post.

 The newly obtained records of Larry Thurlow show that he, like Kerry,  
won a Bronze Star for the same engagement and that Thurlow's citation  
said he came under "constant small arms fire," the newspaper reported  
Thursday.

 Thurlow, also like Kerry, commanded a Navy Swift boat during the war.  
Thurlow swore in an affidavit last month that Kerry was "not under  
fire" when he rescued Lt. James Rassmann from the Bay Hap River.

 Thurlow's records, obtained by the Post under the Freedom of  
Information Act, include references to "enemy small arms and automatic  
weapons fire" directed at all five boats in the flotilla that day. In  
his Bronze Star citation, Thurlow is praised for helping a damaged  
Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."

 Thurlow is a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a public  
advocacy group of Vietnam veterans who have aired a television  
advertisement attacking Kerry's war record."

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run  
out of things they can do with UNIX." - Ken Olsen, President of DEC,  
1984.

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Vanilla Ice Cream is Evil, Why It Must Be Eradicate

[Dave Land]

On Aug 23, 1980, at 4:07 PM, Dan Minette wrote:
This makes about 1 pint or 16 oz.  Lets say the child makes it with 2
teaspoons, and each of two kids gets one cup of ice cream each.  That 
is
one teaspoon of vanilla per child. There are three teaspoons in a
tablespoon and two tablespoons in an oz: a teaspoon is 1/6 oz or .1666 
oz.
Multiple by 40%, and each child has 0.067 oz of pure alcohol, more 
than 6x
the communion sip.
Forcing a child to eat Ice Cream is immoral.
Dave
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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[Deborah Harrell]

> Julia Randolph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 
> And I believe that while some of the alcohol cooks
> out, not all of it does.

Since ethanol boils at 78.3oC, and most baked goods
are cooked above ~300oF, pretty much all of it will
vaporize off.  OTOH, if you're making a rum sauce and
keep it over a low flame, _some_ ought to remain... 

I should have been more precise and said something on
the order of 'because of the tiny amounts of vanilla
used in cooking, the alcohol content is negligible,
even though vanilla extract contains ~35% ethanol by
volume; also the boiling point is such that little if
any remains after the cooking process'...sheesh!   ;)

[Oddly, I _still_ haven't gotten Dan's post this
thread!   ;} ]

(ethanol info WRT chemical properties:)
http://www.ucc.ie/ucc/depts/chem/dolchem/html/comp/ethanol.html

I wondered why I didn't recall hearing of more people
using wintergreen extract as an alcohol source, when
you mentioned its content - well, now I know!  (Hmm,
this is oil of wintergreen rather than wintergreen
extract, but still...)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11335011
Laryngeal oedema caused by accidental ingestion of Oil
of Wintergreen
Oil of Wintergreen (methyl salicylate) is a common
ingredient for liniments, ointments and essential oils
used in self-treatment of musculoskeletal pain. Its
pleasant smell also encourages its use to flavour
confectionery. The toxic potential of this preparation
is not always fully appreciated by the general public
and physicians. To appreciate the danger of this oil
it can be compared to aspirin tablets (325 mg dose):
one teaspoon (5 ml) of Oil of Wintergreen is
equivalent to approximately 7000 mg of salicylate or
21.7 adult aspirin tablets. Ingestion of as little as
4 ml in a child can be fatal

Debbi
Think I'll Stick To Vanilla In My Cocoa Maru   ;)



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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[Nick Arnett]

Erik Reuter wrote:
On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 09:58:25AM -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:
You mean Cringely?  His real name isn't a big secret... There were a
few occasions in 1988 when his real name was "Nick Arnett," actually.
Yes, I am well aware, as you have repeatedly pointed it out.
Erik Reuter wrote:
> ... Why won't the author of the article
> reveal his real name?
What you wrote seems rather more argumentative than belongs here, given 
that you actually knew that Mark's real name is no secret.

As for having "repeatedly" pointed it out, I'm not sure everybody who's 
here now heard me the first time.  As far as I can tell, "repeatedly" 
actually was once, in 2002.

Nick


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Re: New Elements

[Deborah Harrell]

> Travis Edmunds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >From: Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> >Debbi
> >who actually just last week unboxed her...stuffed
> > toy animals for the
> >first time since 1996...including Tigger->White
> Fang->
 
> White Fang? Is it 'official'?

No, I just had a habit of re-naming my toy animals;
hence Tigger became White Fang and so on.  My oldest
toy horse started out as Mr. Ed (never mind that it's
a bay mare!), and has had ~ 5 names total.
 
> I love White Fang, but he's got nothin' on Ole
> Yeller. Yeller is *my* dog.
> 
> *Did anyone get that?

Yep, sure's coons got inta th' corn crib...

Debbi
"He's *My* R'sponsibility" Maru  :(



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Re: New Elements

[Deborah Harrell]

> Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > From: "Deborah Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > "Robert G. Seeberger" wrote:

> > >  [XY]  Usage:  None really, except methane
> > > production.  Good samples are able
> > >   to produce large quantities on command.

> > Oh, I can think of *several* other things in this
> > category...   cat-on-the-mat>

> Looking forward to the Debra Sutra.
> Coming to a webcam near you  



Two chances of _that_...fat and slim!

Debbi
who is personally _very_ anti-PDA, more from a
'horribly embarrassed' rather than a 'morally
outraged' standpoint...



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Re: New (recycled) member intro

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "Russell Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 5:49 PM
Subject: Re: New (recycled) member intro


> Robert Seeberger wrote:
>
> > Welcome back, welcome back, welcome back.
> >
> > xponent
> > No One Expects The Lyric Salutation Maru
> > rob
>
>
> No one expects *anyone* to remember the lyrics from really cheesy
70s TV
> shows... (or at least for anyone to admit to it...)
>

I have to protect my rep for unpredictable behavior. That is likely my
most predictable attribute.


xponent
Looked Like Epstien Back Then Maru
rob


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Re: New Elements

[William T Goodall]

On 24 Aug 2004, at 12:41 am, Deborah Harrell wrote:
who is personally _very_ anti-PDA, more from a
'horribly embarrassed' rather than a 'morally
outraged' standpoint...
So what do you have against Personal Digital Assistants? Or is it 
Push-Down Automata that get your goat? Surely not Programmable Device 
Arrays - everybody loves them!

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"Invest in a company any idiot can run because sooner or later any 
idiot is going to run it."  -  Warren Buffet

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Re: New Elements

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "Deborah Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 6:41 PM
Subject: Re: New Elements


> > Robert Seeberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > From: "Deborah Harrell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > "Robert G. Seeberger" wrote:
>
> > > >  [XY]  Usage:  None really, except methane
> > > > production.  Good samples are able
> > > >   to produce large quantities on command.
>
> > > Oh, I can think of *several* other things in this
> > > category...   > cat-on-the-mat>
>
> > Looking forward to the Debra Sutra.
> > Coming to a webcam near you  
>
>  in one hand, or just ROTFLOL...>



>
> Two chances of _that_...fat and slim!

Ahhh.So you go both ways!


>
> Debbi
> who is personally _very_ anti-PDA, more from a
> 'horribly embarrassed' rather than a 'morally
> outraged' standpoint...

PDA?


xponent
Virtual Sexual Harassment Maru
rob


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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[Erik Reuter]

On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 04:32:15PM -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:

> What you wrote seems rather more argumentative than belongs here,
> given that you actually knew that Mark's real name is no secret.

Argumentative? I beg to differ!

> As for having "repeatedly" pointed it out, I'm not sure everybody
> who's here now heard me the first time.  As far as I can tell,
> "repeatedly" actually was once, in 2002.

I'm not going to search for it, but I remember AT LEAST TWICE some time
ago, and then twice more this week.

Your comment seems rather argumentative, given that the post in question
was directed to me and you had already mentioned it to others in another
post...


-- 
Erik Reuter   http://www.erikreuter.net/
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Re: Swift-Boat Liars for Shrub

[Robert Seeberger]

- Original Message - 
From: "William T Goodall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Swift-Boat Liars for Shrub


>
> On 20 Aug 2004, at 2:53 pm, The Fool wrote:
>
> >
< > 2004082
> > 0swift_graph.gif>>
> >
>
> http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB9ATWE2YD.html
>
> "WASHINGTON (AP) - Military records appear to contradict claims by a
> vocal critic of Sen. John Kerry that the Democratic presidential
> candidate lied about coming under gunfire during a mission in
Vietnam,
> according to The Washington Post.
>
>   The newly obtained records of Larry Thurlow show that he, like
Kerry,
> won a Bronze Star for the same engagement and that Thurlow's
citation
> said he came under "constant small arms fire," the newspaper
reported
> Thursday.
>
>   Thurlow, also like Kerry, commanded a Navy Swift boat during the
war.
> Thurlow swore in an affidavit last month that Kerry was "not under
> fire" when he rescued Lt. James Rassmann from the Bay Hap River.
>
>   Thurlow's records, obtained by the Post under the Freedom of
> Information Act, include references to "enemy small arms and
automatic
> weapons fire" directed at all five boats in the flotilla that day.
In
> his Bronze Star citation, Thurlow is praised for helping a damaged
> Swift boat "despite enemy bullets flying about him."
>
>   Thurlow is a leading member of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a
public
> advocacy group of Vietnam veterans who have aired a television
> advertisement attacking Kerry's war record."
>
http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp
http://www.mattgunn.com/#swiftboat50504
http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh050504.shtml

xponent
More Here Maru
rob


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Re: BetaVote

[Warren Ockrassa]

On Aug 23, 2004, at 3:44 PM, Russell Chapman wrote:
You also have to wonder what Bush has done to the Nordics - Iceland, 
Sweden and Finland are the new Kerry Heartland...
Don't know about the others, but I seem to recall reading somewhere 
that Finland has one of the highest average IQs of any nation on earth, 
so one possible axis could be general education in the populace and how 
well individuals in a country can assimilate data and make rational 
decisions about what's true and what is (politely) propaganda.

That, or intelligent people don't favor abject, rock-stupid, gaptoothed 
mouth-breathing morons such as The Duh-bya.

-- WthmO
George W. Bush:
Putting the 'dense' in presidency since 2001.
--
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Re: New Elements

[Dave Land]

On Aug 23, 2004, at 5:04 PM, William T Goodall wrote:
On 24 Aug 2004, at 12:41 am, Deborah Harrell wrote:
who is personally _very_ anti-PDA, more from a
'horribly embarrassed' rather than a 'morally
outraged' standpoint...
So what do you have against Personal Digital Assistants? Or is it 
Push-Down Automata that get your goat? Surely not Programmable Device 
Arrays - everybody loves them!
I think it was clear to even the most casual observer (that would be 
me, although you can have that coveted slot if you read and post to 
this list wearing flip-flops, cut-off shorts, and an optional Aloha 
shirt) that she was referring to "Planning and Decision Aids," which 
Deborah just HATES!

Dave
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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[Dave Land]

On Aug 23, 2004, at 5:29 PM, Erik Reuter wrote:
On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 04:32:15PM -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:
What you wrote seems rather more argumentative than belongs here,
given that you actually knew that Mark's real name is no secret.
Argumentative? I beg to differ!
That's not an argument.
Dave
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Alcohol and Kids Brains

[Kanandarqu]

Debbie wrote-
>From a modern medical standpoint, children drinking
> alcohol is detrimental, as alcohol is a neurotoxin;
> developing brains are more vulnerable than adult
> brains (and since our brains are still remodeling
> quite a bit through age ~21yr, college kids
> binge-drinking is harmful).  But from a survival
> standpoint, it was sensible to for all to drink
> (watered) wine, as decent drinking water was not
> often > available to our ancestors, and
> cholera/typhoid/polio etc. etc. were frequently 
> fatal.After all,
> how many brain cells do you need to do
> near-subsistance agricultural labor?  (As opposed to
> more skilled labor, or reading/writing.)

Well out of my league on the effects of alcohol on kids,
but this reminded me of something I read last week.
Work has me reading/working through the book- 
"Now, Discover Your Strengths"  which has a section 
on why people should develop and excel in their
strengths (versus offsetting their weaknesses- 
unless they interfere with your strengths).  There
is a part of the book that talks about how the brain
of a 2ish month old infant grows synapses at an 
incredible rate until about 6 months.  Until age 
3 synapses learn to communicate, but then 
"neglected" synapses start to "fall into disrepair"-
such that half are gone by age 16.  

I wonder how alcohol in small sips, or even
with meals would effect this?  Might be hard to sort
it all out Zim are you out there?  Don't feel 
like a Medline search.   

Dee
btw, the book is good and the online test is
part of the price of the book, pretty cool.
more in depth and not "opposites" based like the
Myers-Briggs

 
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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[Gautam Mukunda]

This is the second message I've gotten from Dan M.
dated Saturday, August 23rd of 1980.  Is something
weird going on?

--- Dan Minette <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Dave Land" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 5:43 PM
> Subject: Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The
> Mercies of The Vatican)
> 
> > The alcohol in Vanilla Extract is, at least in the
> USA, legal
> > requirement: FDA regulations require at least 35%
> alcohol, but there
> > does not appear to be an upper limit. I was told
> by my grandmother that
> > it was not unusual for women who wanted to get
> high (but didn't want to
> > drink the so-called hard stuff) to take a hit off
> the vanilla bottle
> > from time to time. I guess they got baked without
> having do to any
> > baking...
> 
> I've heard stories about that too; a women being
> happy her alcoholic
> husband stopped drinking but wondered why he
> developed such a taste for
> vanilla.
> 
> With kids, I was thinking more about comparing a sip
> of communion wine with
> eating home made vanilla ice cream.  I know that 100
> people can sip about 4
> oz of wine for communion, but lets be generous and
> say 100 sip=8 oz. .  So,
> one person  sips  .08 oz.  At 12.5% alcohol, that's
> about 0.01 oz of pure
> alcohol. Then, lets look at a child's home made
> vanilla ice cream recipe I
> pulled off the web:
> 
> 
> Homemade Vanilla Ice Cream recipe for kids (or
> anyone wanting something
> quick and delicious!)
>   Ingredients:
>   1/2 pint (250ml) single/light cream, small tin of
> condensed milk, 1-2
> teaspoons vanilla extract (according to taste)
> 
> 
> This makes about 1 pint or 16 oz.  Lets say the
> child makes it with 2
> teaspoons, and each of two kids gets one cup of ice
> cream each.  That is
> one teaspoon of vanilla per child. There are three
> teaspoons in a
> tablespoon and two tablespoons in an oz: a teaspoon
> is 1/6 oz or .1666 oz.
> Multiple by 40%, and each child has 0.067 oz of pure
> alcohol, more than 6x
> the communion sip.
> 
> Dan M.
> 
> 
> ___
> http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
> 


=
Gautam Mukunda
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"Freedom is not free"
http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com




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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[William T Goodall]

On 24 Aug 2004, at 1:29 am, Erik Reuter wrote:
On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 04:32:15PM -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:

As for having "repeatedly" pointed it out, I'm not sure everybody
who's here now heard me the first time.  As far as I can tell,
"repeatedly" actually was once, in 2002.
I'm not going to search for it, but I remember AT LEAST TWICE some time
ago, and then twice more this week.
I don't have complete archives of brin-l, but Nick has previously 
mentioned this at least three times a while back, in emails received 30 
April 1999, 4 Feb 2002 and 1 May 2002.

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"Computers in the future may weigh no more than 1.5 tons."
- Popular Mechanics, forecasting the relentless march of science, 1949
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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[Dan Minette]

- Original Message - 
From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 9:49 PM
Subject: Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)


> This is the second message I've gotten from Dan M.
> dated Saturday, August 23rd of 1980.  Is something
> weird going on?
>

I set my clock back trying to find the day of the week an old date was on.
I forgot to reset it.

Dan M.


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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[Julia Thompson]

Erik Reuter wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Aug 23, 2004 at 04:32:15PM -0700, Nick Arnett wrote:
> 
> > What you wrote seems rather more argumentative than belongs here,
> > given that you actually knew that Mark's real name is no secret.
> 
> Argumentative? I beg to differ!
> 
> > As for having "repeatedly" pointed it out, I'm not sure everybody
> > who's here now heard me the first time.  As far as I can tell,
> > "repeatedly" actually was once, in 2002.
> 
> I'm not going to search for it, but I remember AT LEAST TWICE some time
> ago, and then twice more this week.

What the heck.  I'll search.

OK, I have it:

2002 February 4
2002 April 30
2004 August 23 @ 16:58 GMT
2004 August 23 @ 17:07 GMT

The first in 2002 was part of a quick auto-biography.  The second in
2002 had to do with the death of the current Cringely's son of SIDS. 
The first in 2004 was in response to Erik, the second in response to
Rob.

I had only remembered the one regarding the SIDS death, actually.  That
one made a big impression on me.  (And I've always been a little more
paranoid about it than a lot of the other mothers I talk to about it,
even before reading about that particular death.  And none of my kids
had any of the big apparent risk factors in play.)

Julia
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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[Julia Thompson]

Dan Minette wrote:
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Killer Bs Discussion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 9:49 PM
> Subject: Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)
> 
> > This is the second message I've gotten from Dan M.
> > dated Saturday, August 23rd of 1980.  Is something
> > weird going on?
> >
> 
> I set my clock back trying to find the day of the week an old date was on.
> I forgot to reset it.

That's what almanacs are for.  :)

Or calendar software.  I don't mess with the system date to do those
things.  (In all practicality, I tend to use the calendar on my Palm
Pilot.  But I also have an almanac within reach of my computer.  Not
sure why anymore, unless it's for when the internet connection is
down)

Julia

Playing With Fire Maru
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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[William T Goodall]

On 24 Aug 2004, at 3:57 am, Dan Minette wrote:
- Original Message -
From: "Gautam Mukunda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
This is the second message I've gotten from Dan M.
dated Saturday, August 23rd of 1980.  Is something
weird going on?
I set my clock back trying to find the day of the week an old date was 
on.
I forgot to reset it.
I think using the 'cal' command is a much easier and quicker way of 
doing that.

August 1980
 S  M Tu  W Th  F  S
1  2
 3  4  5  6  7  8  9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
"It is our belief, however, that serious professional users will run 
out of things they can do with UNIX." - Ken Olsen, President of DEC, 
1984.

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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[William T Goodall]

On 24 Aug 2004, at 3:55 am, Julia Thompson wrote:
OK, I have it:
2002 February 4
2002 April 30
2004 August 23 @ 16:58 GMT
2004 August 23 @ 17:07 GMT
And
On 30 Apr 1999, at 3:41 pm, Nick Arnett wrote:
I'll find out.  I actually was Robert X. Cringely sometimes -- there 
have probably been a dozen people who wrote under that byline at 
InfoWorld.
On the Denver Massacre thread.
--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
One of the main causes of the fall of the Roman Empire was that,
lacking zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of
their C programs.  -- Robert Firth
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Re: Alcohol and neuron function (was: The Mercies of The Vatican)

[William T Goodall]

On 24 Aug 2004, at 3:58 am, Julia Thompson wrote:
Dan Minette wrote:
I set my clock back trying to find the day of the week an old date 
was on.
I forgot to reset it.
That's what almanacs are for.  :)
Or calendar software.  I don't mess with the system date to do those
things.  (In all practicality, I tend to use the calendar on my Palm
Pilot.  But I also have an almanac within reach of my computer.  Not
sure why anymore, unless it's for when the internet connection is
down)
Just noticed that the cal command line command and iCal (the GUI 
calendar program on Mac OS X) start to disagree around the 1752 
Gregorian Reformation :) Going backwards that is. Oops...

I guess most people don't need to set alarms or appointments prior to 
1753, so it's probably OK :)

--
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/
Putting an infinite number of monkeys at an infinite number of keyboards
will _not_ result in the greatest work of all time. Just look at 
Windows.

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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[Julia Thompson]

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, William T Goodall wrote:

> 
> On 24 Aug 2004, at 3:55 am, Julia Thompson wrote:
> >
> > OK, I have it:
> >
> > 2002 February 4
> > 2002 April 30
> > 2004 August 23 @ 16:58 GMT
> > 2004 August 23 @ 17:07 GMT
> >
> 
> And
> 
> On 30 Apr 1999, at 3:41 pm, Nick Arnett wrote:
> >
> > I'll find out.  I actually was Robert X. Cringely sometimes -- there 
> > have probably been a dozen people who wrote under that byline at 
> > InfoWorld.
> 
> On the Denver Massacre thread.

Missed those.  I was searching on a particular string in the "from" that 
wasn't there.  (I'd thought he'd always posted with a "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" 
address, but no)

(There was a reply to that, that included "Cringely" in the subject line.)

Julia
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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[Warren Ockrassa]

On Aug 23, 2004, at 8:49 PM, Julia Thompson wrote:
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004, William T Goodall wrote:
[...]
Wow. You *know* you're on a geeky list when the local phallic symbol is 
the size of one's archive.

--
When the ground's soft for diggin'
and the rain will bring all this gloom
there's nothin' wrong with a lady
drinkin' alone in a room.
-- Tom Waits, "Murder in the Red Barn"
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Re: Cringely on incarceration of US population

[Nick Arnett]

William T Goodall wrote:
On 24 Aug 2004, at 3:55 am, Julia Thompson wrote:
OK, I have it:
2002 February 4
2002 April 30
2004 August 23 @ 16:58 GMT
2004 August 23 @ 17:07 GMT
And
On 30 Apr 1999, at 3:41 pm, Nick Arnett wrote:
Good heavens, I bring this up every two or three years!  I suppose I 
should talk about something else for a change.

;-)
Nick
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