Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
On May 9, 1:10 pm, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > ADmad: > > "especially the ones which have almost nil probability of being > accepted like yours" > > This is what I call arrogance. Take a step back and look at the resources you ignored/didn't look for before writing your article; One of cake's core concepts is DRY does that really mean write the same thing 3, 4 or more times and submit it to the bakery? or does it mean use the code that already exists? Noone is unappreciative of the effort that goes into writing an article on the bakery - but especially in this case I think 5 mins looking for code that already does what you submitted could have saved you some effort (and subsequent bad blood from thinking the bakery is some kind of elitist group bent on keeping your work from the world). > > You have all this time to research my IRC chats. Did you by the way > tell me that you were a reviewer on the chat. Nope. No one except those with bakery moderator privileges could /read/ your article. I would have thought this was implied. > Then why should I > care what you have to say. If you had told me that you are one of the > arrogant reviewers mmm k. > then I would have taken care of this issue at that > point. Let's roll back the clock and pretend someone had written: "Hi Jayesh. Thanks for your submission but I'm afraid it can't be accepted. Your article is too brief and repeats functionality which is already available in the core (nestedList). If you would like to discuss this please ask in the irc channel. We hope that you continue to send submissions to the bakery, and thank you for your efforts. Reviewer" What would have been your response? I anticipate something like you've already said "if it helps one developer " to which I'll preemptively counter: well, fine - but how many developers does it hinder to find in the bakery an article which duplicates what the core permits? if it helps one and hinders 1 that means overall it has no benefit - and publishing repetitive/similar code does not hinder one - it hinders many. > > It has nothing to do with my ego. The issue is if you are a reviewer > or a moderator then DO YOU JOB or get out. Whether you are doing > volunteer work is not relevant. I can really feel the love in that one, and I think in the first sentence of that you mispelt "everything". > > **All** of you core members, reviewers, moderators have all this time > to to bash me in a public forum just because I complained that my > article was deleted without any comment. And in that aspect you're completely right to have done so - if it happens again (to anyone) I hope you/they let us know a mistake has been made. > But you complain about having > shortage of resources for reviewing articles. > > Accept you all have a serious problem, lose the arrogance. I think there is something positive to be gained from this thread - but the person with the most to gain is not on the bakery moderation team. hth, AD Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
Please allow me to make a few remarks as an innocent bystander: Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > "especially the ones which have almost nil probability of being > accepted like yours" > > This is what I call arrogance. Sure, that does not sound very polite, but it happens. Especially in non-verbal communication like email or IRC. And mistakes were admitted, btw. > You have all this time to research my IRC chats. Did you by the way > tell me that you were a reviewer on the chat. Nope. Then why should I > care what you have to say. If you had told me that you are one of the Ooops, now how's that for arrogance? The opinion of non-reviewers are of no value at all? You may want to ask yourself why you wanted your article to be published anyway. [lots of raving and rumbling] IMHO, you should try to cool down and re-read your own statements in a week or two (or show that communication to a *really* good friend and ask for his or her *honest* opinion). Regards, Roland Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
ADmad: "especially the ones which have almost nil probability of being accepted like yours" This is what I call arrogance. You have all this time to research my IRC chats. Did you by the way tell me that you were a reviewer on the chat. Nope. Then why should I care what you have to say. If you had told me that you are one of the arrogant reviewers then I would have taken care of this issue at that point. It has nothing to do with my ego. The issue is if you are a reviewer or a moderator then DO YOU JOB or get out. Whether you are doing volunteer work is not relevant. **All** of you core members, reviewers, moderators have all this time to to bash me in a public forum just because I complained that my article was deleted without any comment. But you complain about having shortage of resources for reviewing articles. Accept you all have a serious problem, lose the arrogance. On May 6, 4:30 am, ADmad wrote: > [1] "from what i see your helper outputs a nested list which can be > achieved with HtmlHelper::nestedList or AD7six's TreeHelper behavior > which has lot more features.. rest is jquery magic not much too do > with cake". (Thanks Andy for digging this up, i had forgotten about > it). As shown I gave you a short but reasonable feedback when you came > to the IRC channel inquiring about the lack of feedback on your > article. So your claim that you didn't get any feedback is plain > wrong, so is this statement in your initial post "I visited the IRC > and other than rude and arrogant answers there was not much help". My > response was neither rude nor arrogant, i was plain and to the point. > There's was no response from you regarding the article itself there > after. You just complained "..the reviewer should put appropriate > comments as feedback" and left the channel. > > No one denies that thebakeryreview/moderation process leaves a lot > to be desired. In a perfect world you should have gotten the feedback > throughbakery'scomments system itself in a timely manner, but we > don't live in one. The reviewers are neither lazy nor arrogant, there > are just not enough of them around to comment on each and every > article submitted (especially the ones which have almost nil > probability of being accepted like yours). This is open source, > everyone contributes their time and effort voluntarily, we can't > impose compulsions on them. > > Also when submitting something to a public forum be ready for > criticism or worse rejection. Your ego will be hurt once in a while, > don't take it personally learn to deal with it. > > [1]http://irc.cakephp.org/logs/link/1450927#message1450937 > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organd help others with > their CakePHP related questions. > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
on the thread "lets get rid of the bakery" a thread which turned into lets resolve the issues with bakery people interested in becoming reviewers should get in touch with Graham Weldon (AKA: predominant) - S On 6 May 2010 17:53, Jamie wrote: > How does one become a reviewer? I'd like to help out. > > - Jamie > > On May 6, 1:30 am, ADmad wrote: > > [1] "from what i see your helper outputs a nested list which can be > > achieved with HtmlHelper::nestedList or AD7six's TreeHelper behavior > > which has lot more features.. rest is jquery magic not much too do > > with cake". (Thanks Andy for digging this up, i had forgotten about > > it). As shown I gave you a short but reasonable feedback when you came > > to the IRC channel inquiring about the lack of feedback on your > > article. So your claim that you didn't get any feedback is plain > > wrong, so is this statement in your initial post "I visited the IRC > > and other than rude and arrogant answers there was not much help". My > > response was neither rude nor arrogant, i was plain and to the point. > > There's was no response from you regarding the article itself there > > after. You just complained "..the reviewer should put appropriate > > comments as feedback" and left the channel. > > > > No one denies that the bakery review/moderation process leaves a lot > > to be desired. In a perfect world you should have gotten the feedback > > through bakery's comments system itself in a timely manner, but we > > don't live in one. The reviewers are neither lazy nor arrogant, there > > are just not enough of them around to comment on each and every > > article submitted (especially the ones which have almost nil > > probability of being accepted like yours). This is open source, > > everyone contributes their time and effort voluntarily, we can't > > impose compulsions on them. > > > > Also when submitting something to a public forum be ready for > > criticism or worse rejection. Your ego will be hurt once in a while, > > don't take it personally learn to deal with it. > > > > [1]http://irc.cakephp.org/logs/link/1450927#message1450937 > > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organd help others > with their CakePHP related questions. > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comFor > > more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others > with their CakePHP related questions. > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comFor > more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en > Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
How does one become a reviewer? I'd like to help out. - Jamie On May 6, 1:30 am, ADmad wrote: > [1] "from what i see your helper outputs a nested list which can be > achieved with HtmlHelper::nestedList or AD7six's TreeHelper behavior > which has lot more features.. rest is jquery magic not much too do > with cake". (Thanks Andy for digging this up, i had forgotten about > it). As shown I gave you a short but reasonable feedback when you came > to the IRC channel inquiring about the lack of feedback on your > article. So your claim that you didn't get any feedback is plain > wrong, so is this statement in your initial post "I visited the IRC > and other than rude and arrogant answers there was not much help". My > response was neither rude nor arrogant, i was plain and to the point. > There's was no response from you regarding the article itself there > after. You just complained "..the reviewer should put appropriate > comments as feedback" and left the channel. > > No one denies that the bakery review/moderation process leaves a lot > to be desired. In a perfect world you should have gotten the feedback > through bakery's comments system itself in a timely manner, but we > don't live in one. The reviewers are neither lazy nor arrogant, there > are just not enough of them around to comment on each and every > article submitted (especially the ones which have almost nil > probability of being accepted like yours). This is open source, > everyone contributes their time and effort voluntarily, we can't > impose compulsions on them. > > Also when submitting something to a public forum be ready for > criticism or worse rejection. Your ego will be hurt once in a while, > don't take it personally learn to deal with it. > > [1]http://irc.cakephp.org/logs/link/1450927#message1450937 > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organd help others with > their CakePHP related questions. > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
[1] "from what i see your helper outputs a nested list which can be achieved with HtmlHelper::nestedList or AD7six's TreeHelper behavior which has lot more features.. rest is jquery magic not much too do with cake". (Thanks Andy for digging this up, i had forgotten about it). As shown I gave you a short but reasonable feedback when you came to the IRC channel inquiring about the lack of feedback on your article. So your claim that you didn't get any feedback is plain wrong, so is this statement in your initial post "I visited the IRC and other than rude and arrogant answers there was not much help". My response was neither rude nor arrogant, i was plain and to the point. There's was no response from you regarding the article itself there after. You just complained "..the reviewer should put appropriate comments as feedback" and left the channel. No one denies that the bakery review/moderation process leaves a lot to be desired. In a perfect world you should have gotten the feedback through bakery's comments system itself in a timely manner, but we don't live in one. The reviewers are neither lazy nor arrogant, there are just not enough of them around to comment on each and every article submitted (especially the ones which have almost nil probability of being accepted like yours). This is open source, everyone contributes their time and effort voluntarily, we can't impose compulsions on them. Also when submitting something to a public forum be ready for criticism or worse rejection. Your ego will be hurt once in a while, don't take it personally learn to deal with it. [1] http://irc.cakephp.org/logs/link/1450927#message1450937 Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
>From the log: "It's not much of an article... more of a code snippet. " "from what i see your helper outputs a nested list which can be achieved with HtmlHelper::nestedList or AD7six's TreeHelper behavior which has lot more features.." This looks like more then just "not a nice article". Did you read the AD7six's TreeHelper? It may took some time but you got a fair response. Please learn to handle constructive criticism and learn from it. Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
On May 4, 11:13 pm, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > There was no discussion. I did talk to someone about the status and > all I got was that it was not a nice article. > > I am not not selling this stuff. It is just a contribution. If it > helps even one programmer it is ok. Like I said it is only a > contribution. > > If you are a core member and cannot professionally answer my question > as to why my article is languishing then I suggest you quit the core. > > Get real. It is an open source framework for God's sake. > > Being a core member, a moderator or a reviewer, you are here to help > the community. You seem to be considering your position as some sort > of an authoritative position. > > This is voluntary work. I spent time writing it with the only intent > that it may help some one. This is what I get in return. I think what you fail to realize is that if the bakery published every submission (some good, some not so good) it makes it HARDER to find information/help. The pool of information grows and the info gets harder to find. There are already a lot of dubious/duplicate submissions - There are iirc 2 or 3 tree/ul related helpers/articles. I also think you're taking this all way too personally - you're completely right the publication/moderation process isn't perfect I'd go as far as to say it's flat out wrong - that's partly because it's been outgrown, partly because of application errors and partly because the team who review articles is made up of people exactly like you. And when I say exactly like you I mean you could have used this as an opportunity to really help out instead of an attack on the people who spend their time moderating the bakery. Anyway, I hope you either reconsider (and calm down) or find peace in your new home, AD Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
There was no discussion. I did talk to someone about the status and all I got was that it was not a nice article. I am not not selling this stuff. It is just a contribution. If it helps even one programmer it is ok. Like I said it is only a contribution. If you are a core member and cannot professionally answer my question as to why my article is languishing then I suggest you quit the core. Get real. It is an open source framework for God's sake. Being a core member, a moderator or a reviewer, you are here to help the community. You seem to be considering your position as some sort of an authoritative position. This is voluntary work. I spent time writing it with the only intent that it may help some one. This is what I get in return. I stand what I have said. It breeds arrogance. This will be my last reply. I have no plans to continue in this community. I am sure there are other communities where all and any help is respectfully welcome. On May 1, 6:36 am, AD7six wrote: > On Apr 29, 11:22 pm, jacmoe wrote: > > > I was maybe a bit too harsh, but Mr. Wadhwani failed to notice that we > > are indeed trying to fix the issues, and that this is not borne out of > > arrogance. > > I understand that he's pissed off, of course. > > And that he's letting out some steam. > > while thebakery- and the review process - is far from perfect it's > worth noting the following (for the unknowing bystanders): > > The article was titled "Simple Jquery Treeview Helper" > It didn't do anything that existing code doesn't already let you do > [1] > Jayesh did discuss his article with a core member in the irc channel > weeks before this post [2] > > While the article shouldn't have been deleted without a comment to the > author (I don't remember, is the deletion of stale articles > automatic?) it wasn't destined to be published and Jayesh didn't do > anything about the articles shortcoming (which would be difficult > since the main problem was surely the tiny nature of the code and that > it repeats core - and other - existing functionality) > > hth > > AD > [1]http://api.cakephp.org/class/html-helper#method-HtmlHelpernestedList > (amongst other code solutions) > [2]http://irc.cakephp.org/search/cakephp/Wadhwani_J > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organd help others with > their CakePHP related questions. > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
On Apr 29, 11:22 pm, jacmoe wrote: > I was maybe a bit too harsh, but Mr. Wadhwani failed to notice that we > are indeed trying to fix the issues, and that this is not borne out of > arrogance. > I understand that he's pissed off, of course. > And that he's letting out some steam. while the bakery - and the review process - is far from perfect it's worth noting the following (for the unknowing bystanders): The article was titled "Simple Jquery Treeview Helper" It didn't do anything that existing code doesn't already let you do [1] Jayesh did discuss his article with a core member in the irc channel weeks before this post [2] While the article shouldn't have been deleted without a comment to the author (I don't remember, is the deletion of stale articles automatic?) it wasn't destined to be published and Jayesh didn't do anything about the articles shortcoming (which would be difficult since the main problem was surely the tiny nature of the code and that it repeats core - and other - existing functionality) hth AD [1] http://api.cakephp.org/class/html-helper#method-HtmlHelpernestedList (amongst other code solutions) [2] http://irc.cakephp.org/search/cakephp/Wadhwani_J Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
I was maybe a bit too harsh, but Mr. Wadhwani failed to notice that we are indeed trying to fix the issues, and that this is not borne out of arrogance. I understand that he's pissed off, of course. And that he's letting out some steam. > So if you look your questions to me you will notice that it does breed > arrogance. > Accept that the bakery has problems, fix it or get rid of it. Plain > and simple. > Having said that I am not planning to write any more for the bakery > and I do hope other programmers follow suit. The Bakery in it's current state is far from foolproof, as you might have noticed. :) On Apr 29, 9:19 pm, John Andersen wrote: > Jacmoe, I can't agree with you! > Jayesh W did not complain about the Bakery itself, but about the > process of having submitted an article, which was then deleted, > without a reviewer having informed of the reason for it! > That should never happen! > John > > On Apr 29, 6:51 pm, jacmoe wrote:> Good riddance. > > I don't think I've seen such an arrogant attitude in the CakePHP > > community before. > > > I mean: this has been amply covered in this 'topic', and the topic I > > started. > > > Accept the fact that CakePHP is an open source, open community > > project, or get lost. > > > If you paid for the service, then you would have a reason for being > > upset. > > But you didn't. > > [snip] > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organd help others with > their CakePHP related questions. > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
Lets keep this civil, people. Jayesh, I do hope that you consider writing for the bakery or other CakePHP related resources again. Each contribution that is made by the community is a valuable addition to the resource base that is already largely community built. We appreciate every piece of information that can be shared and co-operatively built. While not having detailed information about deletion of material from the bakery, I can only suggest that this is a gross oversight by one of our moderators. This should *never* happen. We in fact encourage review, and reporting of all submitted articles such that we both educate the user to produce quality material for submission, as well as maintain a high standard for articles to ensure users looking for documentation and examples are not presented with methods that are non-standard or against the CakePHP conventions. John is absolutely correct here, what has been described should never happen. Jayesh, can you let me know the title of your post. I can trace down whether this is retrievable or not. I hope very much that it is, and I apologise for this mixup. Feel free to also contact me directly, off list, if you prefer. Cheers, Graham Weldon (aka. Predominant) On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 5:19 AM, John Andersen wrote: > Jacmoe, I can't agree with you! > Jayesh W did not complain about the Bakery itself, but about the > process of having submitted an article, which was then deleted, > without a reviewer having informed of the reason for it! > That should never happen! > John > > On Apr 29, 6:51 pm, jacmoe wrote: > > Good riddance. > > I don't think I've seen such an arrogant attitude in the CakePHP > > community before. > > > > I mean: this has been amply covered in this 'topic', and the topic I > > started. > > > > Accept the fact that CakePHP is an open source, open community > > project, or get lost. > > > > If you paid for the service, then you would have a reason for being > > upset. > > But you didn't. > > > [snip] > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others > with their CakePHP related questions. > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comFor > more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en > Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
Jacmoe, I can't agree with you! Jayesh W did not complain about the Bakery itself, but about the process of having submitted an article, which was then deleted, without a reviewer having informed of the reason for it! That should never happen! John On Apr 29, 6:51 pm, jacmoe wrote: > Good riddance. > I don't think I've seen such an arrogant attitude in the CakePHP > community before. > > I mean: this has been amply covered in this 'topic', and the topic I > started. > > Accept the fact that CakePHP is an open source, open community > project, or get lost. > > If you paid for the service, then you would have a reason for being > upset. > But you didn't. > [snip] Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
Good riddance. I don't think I've seen such an arrogant attitude in the CakePHP community before. I mean: this has been amply covered in this 'topic', and the topic I started. Accept the fact that CakePHP is an open source, open community project, or get lost. If you paid for the service, then you would have a reason for being upset. But you didn't. On Apr 29, 6:16 am, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > Like I said it does seem to breed arrogance. > > Writing for the bakery needs time and effort. When developers put in > such an effort they are doing that to disburse their knowledge to > other developers. Their efforts should be lauded and not taken lightly > or their work criticized. > > So if you look your questions to me you will notice that it does breed > arrogance. > > Accept that the bakery has problems, fix it or get rid of it. Plain > and simple. > > Having said that I am not planning to write any more for the bakery > and I do hope other programmers follow suit. > > -Jayesh > > On Apr 25, 11:46 pm, jacmoe wrote: > > > > > > > That doesn't give you carte blanche to be arrogant, does it? > > > What have you done for CakePHP if I may ask? :) > > > A couple of weeks ago I posted this > > topic:http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_thread/thread/e3a1f469... > > With the title 'Let's get rid of TheBakery'. > > > I volunteered as a moderator, but there's still lots of things to do. > > And the software itself needs some fixing. > > > Feel free to fork it. > > > I would probably delete the article as well, if there haven't been any > > response in three months - I don't know what article it was, since I > > concentrate on removing spam rather than approving articles. > > Due to my newness to CakePHP mostly. > > > So: what have you done for CakePHP ? :D > > > Cheers > > > Jacob > > > On Apr 25, 11:42 am, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > > > > TheBakeryis supposed to be a place where cakePHP developers exchange > > > ideas which in turn enhances the framework. > > > > I recently published a helper and it languished for pending review for > > > weeks on end. I visited the IRC and other than rude and arrogant > > > answers there was not much help. > > > > I did not receive any emails as to why there was a delay. > > > > Today I log in and see this message.. "This article has been deleted > > > and is not available for publication. Review TheBakeryPublishing > > > Guidelines to understand why this article was deleted." > > > > Brilliant reviewer! Don't you think it would be a better to tell me > > > what is the exact problem so that I can correct it. According to > > > guidelines I do get 60 days. Right! > > > > So, what is it? The reviewers just do not care, are plain lazy or just > > > purely arrogant. > > > > If cakePHP has grown to such as level that it cannot handle thebakery > > > and breeds arrogance then I suggest that you get rid of it. > > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelpothers > > > with their CakePHP related questions. > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "CakePHP" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelp others > > with their CakePHP related questions. > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "CakePHP" group. > > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organd help others with > their CakePHP related questions. > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
On Apr 29, 6:16 am, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > Like I said it does seem to breed arrogance. > > Writing for the bakery needs time and effort. When developers put in > such an effort they are doing that to disburse their knowledge to > other developers. Their efforts should be lauded and not taken lightly > or their work criticized. > > So if you look your questions to me you will notice that it does breed > arrogance. > > Accept that the bakery has problems, fix it or get rid of it. Thanks for volunteering - all help is much appreciated. ktnxby AD Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
Like I said it does seem to breed arrogance. Writing for the bakery needs time and effort. When developers put in such an effort they are doing that to disburse their knowledge to other developers. Their efforts should be lauded and not taken lightly or their work criticized. So if you look your questions to me you will notice that it does breed arrogance. Accept that the bakery has problems, fix it or get rid of it. Plain and simple. Having said that I am not planning to write any more for the bakery and I do hope other programmers follow suit. -Jayesh On Apr 25, 11:46 pm, jacmoe wrote: > That doesn't give you carte blanche to be arrogant, does it? > > What have you done for CakePHP if I may ask? :) > > A couple of weeks ago I posted this > topic:http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_thread/thread/e3a1f469... > With the title 'Let's get rid of TheBakery'. > > I volunteered as a moderator, but there's still lots of things to do. > And the software itself needs some fixing. > > Feel free to fork it. > > I would probably delete the article as well, if there haven't been any > response in three months - I don't know what article it was, since I > concentrate on removing spam rather than approving articles. > Due to my newness to CakePHP mostly. > > So: what have you done for CakePHP ? :D > > Cheers > > Jacob > > On Apr 25, 11:42 am, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > > > > > TheBakeryis supposed to be a place where cakePHP developers exchange > > ideas which in turn enhances the framework. > > > I recently published a helper and it languished for pending review for > > weeks on end. I visited the IRC and other than rude and arrogant > > answers there was not much help. > > > I did not receive any emails as to why there was a delay. > > > Today I log in and see this message.. "This article has been deleted > > and is not available for publication. Review TheBakeryPublishing > > Guidelines to understand why this article was deleted." > > > Brilliant reviewer! Don't you think it would be a better to tell me > > what is the exact problem so that I can correct it. According to > > guidelines I do get 60 days. Right! > > > So, what is it? The reviewers just do not care, are plain lazy or just > > purely arrogant. > > > If cakePHP has grown to such as level that it cannot handle thebakery > > and breeds arrogance then I suggest that you get rid of it. > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelp others > > with their CakePHP related questions. > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "CakePHP" group. > > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organd help others with > their CakePHP related questions. > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
I think Graham referred to whatever Bakery replaces the current one as the Bakery 2 - I don't think there's any in development. They are focusing all their efforts on Cakephp 1.3 and onwards. However.. I see that José Gonzales is busy doing work on a Bakery fork.. I wonder what he's up to? :) On Apr 26, 5:55 pm, calvin wrote: > @Jacob: > Ah, I did misunderstand. I apologize. Maybe I will fork the code and > make a merge request to fix the blank e-mails problem. Though I wasn't > aware that Bakery 2.0 was in development. I may try to help with that > instead. > > On Apr 25, 5:49 pm, jacmoe wrote: > > > > > > > I think you misunderstand: > > When you make a fork of a project on Github, you can make merge > > requests back. > > Which means that if you're unsatisfied with the Bakery (as software), > > just fork it, fix it, and make a merge request. > > Even for small fixes, doesn't matter. > > I am sure Graham and Mark and the rest of the CakePHP team would > > appreciate that. :) > > > That's what I mean by forking. > > > Cheers > > > Jacob > > > On Apr 26, 2:04 am, calvin wrote: > > > > I haven't published anything on the Bakery except for comments, so I > > > can't comment on the process. However, I will note that the software > > > is pretty screwed up. All my article reply notifications are blank e- > > > mails--not even a link to the comment/article. I personally hate it > > > when people send me e-mails or make forum posts where they don't write > > > anything in the message body and just use the subject-line as the > > > message. And I think this, along with dead links in the Cookbook, both > > > make Cake look very unprofessional. > > > > But I don't think just forking the Bakery is a solution. Cake needs a > > > centralized/official article/plugins repository. There are just a few > > > things that need to be fixed is all. Even if someone were to fork the > > > Bakery, it would not be as successful/useful. The Bakery is only so > > > useful today because lots of people know about and use it--it's linked > > > to right from the CakePHP homepage. So this "if you don't like it, > > > just fork it" attitude is not appropriate. It's similar to the > > > attitude that, if you find Cake's documentation lacking, you should > > > write it yourself. FOSS is about cooperation and free exchange of > > > ideas and information. It's not an excuse to deflect all criticism or > > > pin all responsibilities on the user/critic. > > > > And a person does not need to have contributed to Cake's source code > > > to level a valid criticism. > > > > On Apr 25, 2:46 pm, jacmoe wrote: > > > > > That doesn't give you carte blanche to be arrogant, does it? > > > > > What have you done for CakePHP if I may ask? :) > > > > > A couple of weeks ago I posted this > > > > topic:http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_thread/thread/e3a1f469... > > > > With the title 'Let's get rid of The Bakery'. > > > > > I volunteered as a moderator, but there's still lots of things to do. > > > > And the software itself needs some fixing. > > > > > Feel free to fork it. > > > > > I would probably delete the article as well, if there haven't been any > > > > response in three months - I don't know what article it was, since I > > > > concentrate on removing spam rather than approving articles. > > > > Due to my newness to CakePHP mostly. > > > > > So: what have you done for CakePHP ? :D > > > > > Cheers > > > > > Jacob > > > > > On Apr 25, 11:42 am, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > > > > > > The Bakery is supposed to be a place where cakePHP developers exchange > > > > > ideas which in turn enhances the framework. > > > > > > I recently published a helper and it languished for pending review for > > > > > weeks on end. I visited the IRC and other than rude and arrogant > > > > > answers there was not much help. > > > > > > I did not receive any emails as to why there was a delay. > > > > > > Today I log in and see this message.. "This article has been deleted > > > > > and is not available for publication. Review The Bakery Publishing > > > > > Guidelines to understand why this article was deleted." > > > > > > Brilliant reviewer! Don't you think it would be a better to tell me > > > > > what is the exact problem so that I can correct it. According to > > > > > guidelines I do get 60 days. Right! > > > > > > So, what is it? The reviewers just do not care, are plain lazy or just > > > > > purely arrogant. > > > > > > If cakePHP has grown to such as level that it cannot handle the bakery > > > > > and breeds arrogance then I suggest that you get rid of it. > > > > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions > > > > > sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelpotherswiththeir CakePHP related questions. > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > > Groups "CakePHP" group. > > > > > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > > cake-php+un
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
@Jacob: Ah, I did misunderstand. I apologize. Maybe I will fork the code and make a merge request to fix the blank e-mails problem. Though I wasn't aware that Bakery 2.0 was in development. I may try to help with that instead. On Apr 25, 5:49 pm, jacmoe wrote: > I think you misunderstand: > When you make a fork of a project on Github, you can make merge > requests back. > Which means that if you're unsatisfied with the Bakery (as software), > just fork it, fix it, and make a merge request. > Even for small fixes, doesn't matter. > I am sure Graham and Mark and the rest of the CakePHP team would > appreciate that. :) > > That's what I mean by forking. > > Cheers > > Jacob > > On Apr 26, 2:04 am, calvin wrote: > > > > > I haven't published anything on the Bakery except for comments, so I > > can't comment on the process. However, I will note that the software > > is pretty screwed up. All my article reply notifications are blank e- > > mails--not even a link to the comment/article. I personally hate it > > when people send me e-mails or make forum posts where they don't write > > anything in the message body and just use the subject-line as the > > message. And I think this, along with dead links in the Cookbook, both > > make Cake look very unprofessional. > > > But I don't think just forking the Bakery is a solution. Cake needs a > > centralized/official article/plugins repository. There are just a few > > things that need to be fixed is all. Even if someone were to fork the > > Bakery, it would not be as successful/useful. The Bakery is only so > > useful today because lots of people know about and use it--it's linked > > to right from the CakePHP homepage. So this "if you don't like it, > > just fork it" attitude is not appropriate. It's similar to the > > attitude that, if you find Cake's documentation lacking, you should > > write it yourself. FOSS is about cooperation and free exchange of > > ideas and information. It's not an excuse to deflect all criticism or > > pin all responsibilities on the user/critic. > > > And a person does not need to have contributed to Cake's source code > > to level a valid criticism. > > > On Apr 25, 2:46 pm, jacmoe wrote: > > > > That doesn't give you carte blanche to be arrogant, does it? > > > > What have you done for CakePHP if I may ask? :) > > > > A couple of weeks ago I posted this > > > topic:http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_thread/thread/e3a1f469... > > > With the title 'Let's get rid of The Bakery'. > > > > I volunteered as a moderator, but there's still lots of things to do. > > > And the software itself needs some fixing. > > > > Feel free to fork it. > > > > I would probably delete the article as well, if there haven't been any > > > response in three months - I don't know what article it was, since I > > > concentrate on removing spam rather than approving articles. > > > Due to my newness to CakePHP mostly. > > > > So: what have you done for CakePHP ? :D > > > > Cheers > > > > Jacob > > > > On Apr 25, 11:42 am, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > > > > > The Bakery is supposed to be a place where cakePHP developers exchange > > > > ideas which in turn enhances the framework. > > > > > I recently published a helper and it languished for pending review for > > > > weeks on end. I visited the IRC and other than rude and arrogant > > > > answers there was not much help. > > > > > I did not receive any emails as to why there was a delay. > > > > > Today I log in and see this message.. "This article has been deleted > > > > and is not available for publication. Review The Bakery Publishing > > > > Guidelines to understand why this article was deleted." > > > > > Brilliant reviewer! Don't you think it would be a better to tell me > > > > what is the exact problem so that I can correct it. According to > > > > guidelines I do get 60 days. Right! > > > > > So, what is it? The reviewers just do not care, are plain lazy or just > > > > purely arrogant. > > > > > If cakePHP has grown to such as level that it cannot handle the bakery > > > > and breeds arrogance then I suggest that you get rid of it. > > > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions > > > > sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelpotherswith their CakePHP related questions. > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups "CakePHP" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this > > > > group athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en > > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelpothers > > > with their CakePHP related questions. > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "CakePHP" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > cake-php+unsubscr..
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
Excellent thoughts there keymaster. Although i loathe Joomla, that site looks fairly well organised, categorised for easy browsing, and its overall a great resource for people looking to extend their Joomla installation. Last I checked, Mariano was working on a CakePHP project that would serve as a central repository for plugins for CakePHP. Sounds like it might be time to check back in with him to see how things are going. I agree that the demands on the community have exceeded the services provided by the initial bakery, and the efforts that went into the development of the bakery were truly awesome to have serviced the community for so long. Sounds like its time to get some community feedback to flesh out the details of what people are looking for in Bakery 2.0, and get a bit of a nudge along on the plugin hosting side of things. Thanks again for the feedback. If anyone wants to list features, and a brief description of functionality for those features, please go ahead. I'll be monitoring this, and making sure notes are published for those interested in developing the bakery. * News feed / submissions Official news from the CakePHP development team and Cake Software Foundation. * User Articles and code User submitted content with articles and code dumps * Comments User contributed moderation (suggest a comment is spam) of comments. * Plugin Listing / Catalogue Centralised authority for listing and organising publicly available plugins for CakePHP While these features may not be jammed into one single site. The purpose is to identify need, address said need, and provide a cakephp hosted solution as a central authority for user content and information. Cheers, Graham Weldon (aka. Predominant) On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 6:52 PM, keymaster wrote: > I understand outsourcing the SCM to github, the tickets to Lighthouse, > the forum to Google Groups, and using cakePHP.org as the glue which > ties everything together. To me that is absolutely the right way to > go, as it frees up manpower to develop framework code. > > Perhaps we need a better way of tracking all the excellent code > contributions available. > > At one time, the old cakeForge served as a central repository for all > plugins, components, etc., so, if you wanted something, you knew that > was the place to look. > > Now, where should we look... Bakery? Github? CakeDC site? People's > Blogs? Google Code? Cakeforge? SourceForge? Google the web? All of > the above? > > Until Bakery v2.0 is out, perhaps a very simple, immediate start might > be to just link to http://cakepackages.com/ from cakePHP.org, and > promote the idea of people "registering their contributions" with > cakepackages.com. > > I think ideally, in the longer terms we might want to head towards > something more like Joomla's extensions site (http:// > extensions.Joomla.org). Where code contributions are broken down by > functional categories. The code might be hosted elsewhere, but the > writeup is there, the comments and reviews of the code are there, and > the links to all the tickets, source code, demos etc. is there too. > > In any case, the cake project and community has outgrown the current > bakery. That is not a bad thing, it's a good thing. We just need a > sensible next step. > > Thoughts? > > > On Apr 26, 11:00 am, Martin Westin wrote: > > I have a few articles published in the Bakery. This does not make me > > an authority on the subject but Since my first one was back in 2007 (I > > think), before it was even called the Bakery, I do have some > > experience of it over a pretty long time. > > > > My personal set of guidelines for writing articles are: > > - Write and edit, preview and check... a lot. > > - Only publish once. Don't ever edit a published post unless you are > > at gunpoint. > > - Instead post additions or edits as author comments. > > - Keep the rss feed of comments to each of your articles in your feed > > reader. > > - Respond to real comments and delete spam comments. (I only delete > > spam I am certain of) > > > > I have developed some of this due to the sometimes very slow > > moderation process. A spell-correction once lingered for many weeks. > > This is of-course frustrating. But, if everyone took great care to > > check their articles before publishing their content I believe the > > process would be significantly quicker. > > Other points in my list are there to improve the quality of the > > article and to take on a small part of the burden of comment > > moderation. By keeping track of comments and responding to them you > > improve the quality of your article and the Bakery as a whole. Even if > > it is just a tiny improvement, it is something everyone can do. No > > forking required. ;) > > > > I believe that the main problems that need to be addressed in the > > software are related to spam. It if not perfect in most other > > respects, few things are, but the spam comments are the most urgent > > problem. They also t
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
I understand outsourcing the SCM to github, the tickets to Lighthouse, the forum to Google Groups, and using cakePHP.org as the glue which ties everything together. To me that is absolutely the right way to go, as it frees up manpower to develop framework code. Perhaps we need a better way of tracking all the excellent code contributions available. At one time, the old cakeForge served as a central repository for all plugins, components, etc., so, if you wanted something, you knew that was the place to look. Now, where should we look... Bakery? Github? CakeDC site? People's Blogs? Google Code? Cakeforge? SourceForge? Google the web? All of the above? Until Bakery v2.0 is out, perhaps a very simple, immediate start might be to just link to http://cakepackages.com/ from cakePHP.org, and promote the idea of people "registering their contributions" with cakepackages.com. I think ideally, in the longer terms we might want to head towards something more like Joomla's extensions site (http:// extensions.Joomla.org). Where code contributions are broken down by functional categories. The code might be hosted elsewhere, but the writeup is there, the comments and reviews of the code are there, and the links to all the tickets, source code, demos etc. is there too. In any case, the cake project and community has outgrown the current bakery. That is not a bad thing, it's a good thing. We just need a sensible next step. Thoughts? On Apr 26, 11:00 am, Martin Westin wrote: > I have a few articles published in the Bakery. This does not make me > an authority on the subject but Since my first one was back in 2007 (I > think), before it was even called the Bakery, I do have some > experience of it over a pretty long time. > > My personal set of guidelines for writing articles are: > - Write and edit, preview and check... a lot. > - Only publish once. Don't ever edit a published post unless you are > at gunpoint. > - Instead post additions or edits as author comments. > - Keep the rss feed of comments to each of your articles in your feed > reader. > - Respond to real comments and delete spam comments. (I only delete > spam I am certain of) > > I have developed some of this due to the sometimes very slow > moderation process. A spell-correction once lingered for many weeks. > This is of-course frustrating. But, if everyone took great care to > check their articles before publishing their content I believe the > process would be significantly quicker. > Other points in my list are there to improve the quality of the > article and to take on a small part of the burden of comment > moderation. By keeping track of comments and responding to them you > improve the quality of your article and the Bakery as a whole. Even if > it is just a tiny improvement, it is something everyone can do. No > forking required. ;) > > I believe that the main problems that need to be addressed in the > software are related to spam. It if not perfect in most other > respects, few things are, but the spam comments are the most urgent > problem. They also take up a lot of time, I imagine. > (There is also the thing where an author can't delete his/her own > articles.) > > The other frustrations I have experience from time to time are > probably more due to human resources, or a shortage thereof. It is > important to point out that the people involved are NOT the problem... > the rest of us, not involved, are so to speak. > I am sure that with more insight one could see ways of improving the > software that would streamline the work of moderators. > > /Martin > > On Apr 26, 3:10 am, Graham Weldon wrote: > > > > > Most definitely. We're keeping pretty busy with work on the core at the > > moment, with releases for 1.2.7 and 1.3.0 out recently, we have a fair load > > of work ahead to push through on CakePHP 2.0. > > > If anyone has an interest in developing and working on the bakery, we would > > very much welcome it. > > > Cheers, > > Graham Weldon (aka. Predominant) > > > On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 10:49 AM, jacmoe wrote: > > > I think you misunderstand: > > > When you make a fork of a project on Github, you can make merge > > > requests back. > > > Which means that if you're unsatisfied with the Bakery (as software), > > > just fork it, fix it, and make a merge request. > > > Even for small fixes, doesn't matter. > > > I am sure Graham and Mark and the rest of the CakePHP team would > > > appreciate that. :) > > > > That's what I mean by forking. > > > > Cheers > > > > Jacob > > > > On Apr 26, 2:04 am, calvin wrote: > > > > I haven't published anything on the Bakery except for comments, so I > > > > can't comment on the process. However, I will note that the software > > > > is pretty screwed up. All my article reply notifications are blank e- > > > > mails--not even a link to the comment/article. I personally hate it > > > > when people send me e-mails or make forum posts where they don't write > > > > anything in the message body and just
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
I have a few articles published in the Bakery. This does not make me an authority on the subject but Since my first one was back in 2007 (I think), before it was even called the Bakery, I do have some experience of it over a pretty long time. My personal set of guidelines for writing articles are: - Write and edit, preview and check... a lot. - Only publish once. Don't ever edit a published post unless you are at gunpoint. - Instead post additions or edits as author comments. - Keep the rss feed of comments to each of your articles in your feed reader. - Respond to real comments and delete spam comments. (I only delete spam I am certain of) I have developed some of this due to the sometimes very slow moderation process. A spell-correction once lingered for many weeks. This is of-course frustrating. But, if everyone took great care to check their articles before publishing their content I believe the process would be significantly quicker. Other points in my list are there to improve the quality of the article and to take on a small part of the burden of comment moderation. By keeping track of comments and responding to them you improve the quality of your article and the Bakery as a whole. Even if it is just a tiny improvement, it is something everyone can do. No forking required. ;) I believe that the main problems that need to be addressed in the software are related to spam. It if not perfect in most other respects, few things are, but the spam comments are the most urgent problem. They also take up a lot of time, I imagine. (There is also the thing where an author can't delete his/her own articles.) The other frustrations I have experience from time to time are probably more due to human resources, or a shortage thereof. It is important to point out that the people involved are NOT the problem... the rest of us, not involved, are so to speak. I am sure that with more insight one could see ways of improving the software that would streamline the work of moderators. /Martin On Apr 26, 3:10 am, Graham Weldon wrote: > Most definitely. We're keeping pretty busy with work on the core at the > moment, with releases for 1.2.7 and 1.3.0 out recently, we have a fair load > of work ahead to push through on CakePHP 2.0. > > If anyone has an interest in developing and working on the bakery, we would > very much welcome it. > > Cheers, > Graham Weldon (aka. Predominant) > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 10:49 AM, jacmoe wrote: > > I think you misunderstand: > > When you make a fork of a project on Github, you can make merge > > requests back. > > Which means that if you're unsatisfied with the Bakery (as software), > > just fork it, fix it, and make a merge request. > > Even for small fixes, doesn't matter. > > I am sure Graham and Mark and the rest of the CakePHP team would > > appreciate that. :) > > > That's what I mean by forking. > > > Cheers > > > Jacob > > > On Apr 26, 2:04 am, calvin wrote: > > > I haven't published anything on the Bakery except for comments, so I > > > can't comment on the process. However, I will note that the software > > > is pretty screwed up. All my article reply notifications are blank e- > > > mails--not even a link to the comment/article. I personally hate it > > > when people send me e-mails or make forum posts where they don't write > > > anything in the message body and just use the subject-line as the > > > message. And I think this, along with dead links in the Cookbook, both > > > make Cake look very unprofessional. > > > > But I don't think just forking the Bakery is a solution. Cake needs a > > > centralized/official article/plugins repository. There are just a few > > > things that need to be fixed is all. Even if someone were to fork the > > > Bakery, it would not be as successful/useful. The Bakery is only so > > > useful today because lots of people know about and use it--it's linked > > > to right from the CakePHP homepage. So this "if you don't like it, > > > just fork it" attitude is not appropriate. It's similar to the > > > attitude that, if you find Cake's documentation lacking, you should > > > write it yourself. FOSS is about cooperation and free exchange of > > > ideas and information. It's not an excuse to deflect all criticism or > > > pin all responsibilities on the user/critic. > > > > And a person does not need to have contributed to Cake's source code > > > to level a valid criticism. > > > > On Apr 25, 2:46 pm, jacmoe wrote: > > > > > That doesn't give you carte blanche to be arrogant, does it? > > > > > What have you done for CakePHP if I may ask? :) > > > > > A couple of weeks ago I posted this topic: > >http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_thread/thread/e3a1f469... > > > > With the title 'Let's get rid of The Bakery'. > > > > > I volunteered as a moderator, but there's still lots of things to do. > > > > And the software itself needs some fixing. > > > > > Feel free to fork it. > > > > > I would probably delete the article as w
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
Most definitely. We're keeping pretty busy with work on the core at the moment, with releases for 1.2.7 and 1.3.0 out recently, we have a fair load of work ahead to push through on CakePHP 2.0. If anyone has an interest in developing and working on the bakery, we would very much welcome it. Cheers, Graham Weldon (aka. Predominant) On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 10:49 AM, jacmoe wrote: > I think you misunderstand: > When you make a fork of a project on Github, you can make merge > requests back. > Which means that if you're unsatisfied with the Bakery (as software), > just fork it, fix it, and make a merge request. > Even for small fixes, doesn't matter. > I am sure Graham and Mark and the rest of the CakePHP team would > appreciate that. :) > > That's what I mean by forking. > > Cheers > > Jacob > > On Apr 26, 2:04 am, calvin wrote: > > I haven't published anything on the Bakery except for comments, so I > > can't comment on the process. However, I will note that the software > > is pretty screwed up. All my article reply notifications are blank e- > > mails--not even a link to the comment/article. I personally hate it > > when people send me e-mails or make forum posts where they don't write > > anything in the message body and just use the subject-line as the > > message. And I think this, along with dead links in the Cookbook, both > > make Cake look very unprofessional. > > > > But I don't think just forking the Bakery is a solution. Cake needs a > > centralized/official article/plugins repository. There are just a few > > things that need to be fixed is all. Even if someone were to fork the > > Bakery, it would not be as successful/useful. The Bakery is only so > > useful today because lots of people know about and use it--it's linked > > to right from the CakePHP homepage. So this "if you don't like it, > > just fork it" attitude is not appropriate. It's similar to the > > attitude that, if you find Cake's documentation lacking, you should > > write it yourself. FOSS is about cooperation and free exchange of > > ideas and information. It's not an excuse to deflect all criticism or > > pin all responsibilities on the user/critic. > > > > And a person does not need to have contributed to Cake's source code > > to level a valid criticism. > > > > On Apr 25, 2:46 pm, jacmoe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > That doesn't give you carte blanche to be arrogant, does it? > > > > > What have you done for CakePHP if I may ask? :) > > > > > A couple of weeks ago I posted this topic: > http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_thread/thread/e3a1f469... > > > With the title 'Let's get rid of The Bakery'. > > > > > I volunteered as a moderator, but there's still lots of things to do. > > > And the software itself needs some fixing. > > > > > Feel free to fork it. > > > > > I would probably delete the article as well, if there haven't been any > > > response in three months - I don't know what article it was, since I > > > concentrate on removing spam rather than approving articles. > > > Due to my newness to CakePHP mostly. > > > > > So: what have you done for CakePHP ? :D > > > > > Cheers > > > > > Jacob > > > > > On Apr 25, 11:42 am, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > > > > > > The Bakery is supposed to be a place where cakePHP developers > exchange > > > > ideas which in turn enhances the framework. > > > > > > I recently published a helper and it languished for pending review > for > > > > weeks on end. I visited the IRC and other than rude and arrogant > > > > answers there was not much help. > > > > > > I did not receive any emails as to why there was a delay. > > > > > > Today I log in and see this message.. "This article has been deleted > > > > and is not available for publication. Review The Bakery Publishing > > > > Guidelines to understand why this article was deleted." > > > > > > Brilliant reviewer! Don't you think it would be a better to tell me > > > > what is the exact problem so that I can correct it. According to > > > > guidelines I do get 60 days. Right! > > > > > > So, what is it? The reviewers just do not care, are plain lazy or > just > > > > purely arrogant. > > > > > > If cakePHP has grown to such as level that it cannot handle the > bakery > > > > and breeds arrogance then I suggest that you get rid of it. > > > > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions > sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelpothers with their CakePHP related questions. > > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "CakePHP" group. > > > > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comFor > > > > more options, visit this group athttp:// > groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en > > > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelp others > with their CakePHP related questions. > > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Grou
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
I think you misunderstand: When you make a fork of a project on Github, you can make merge requests back. Which means that if you're unsatisfied with the Bakery (as software), just fork it, fix it, and make a merge request. Even for small fixes, doesn't matter. I am sure Graham and Mark and the rest of the CakePHP team would appreciate that. :) That's what I mean by forking. Cheers Jacob On Apr 26, 2:04 am, calvin wrote: > I haven't published anything on the Bakery except for comments, so I > can't comment on the process. However, I will note that the software > is pretty screwed up. All my article reply notifications are blank e- > mails--not even a link to the comment/article. I personally hate it > when people send me e-mails or make forum posts where they don't write > anything in the message body and just use the subject-line as the > message. And I think this, along with dead links in the Cookbook, both > make Cake look very unprofessional. > > But I don't think just forking the Bakery is a solution. Cake needs a > centralized/official article/plugins repository. There are just a few > things that need to be fixed is all. Even if someone were to fork the > Bakery, it would not be as successful/useful. The Bakery is only so > useful today because lots of people know about and use it--it's linked > to right from the CakePHP homepage. So this "if you don't like it, > just fork it" attitude is not appropriate. It's similar to the > attitude that, if you find Cake's documentation lacking, you should > write it yourself. FOSS is about cooperation and free exchange of > ideas and information. It's not an excuse to deflect all criticism or > pin all responsibilities on the user/critic. > > And a person does not need to have contributed to Cake's source code > to level a valid criticism. > > On Apr 25, 2:46 pm, jacmoe wrote: > > > > > > > That doesn't give you carte blanche to be arrogant, does it? > > > What have you done for CakePHP if I may ask? :) > > > A couple of weeks ago I posted this > > topic:http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_thread/thread/e3a1f469... > > With the title 'Let's get rid of The Bakery'. > > > I volunteered as a moderator, but there's still lots of things to do. > > And the software itself needs some fixing. > > > Feel free to fork it. > > > I would probably delete the article as well, if there haven't been any > > response in three months - I don't know what article it was, since I > > concentrate on removing spam rather than approving articles. > > Due to my newness to CakePHP mostly. > > > So: what have you done for CakePHP ? :D > > > Cheers > > > Jacob > > > On Apr 25, 11:42 am, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > > > > The Bakery is supposed to be a place where cakePHP developers exchange > > > ideas which in turn enhances the framework. > > > > I recently published a helper and it languished for pending review for > > > weeks on end. I visited the IRC and other than rude and arrogant > > > answers there was not much help. > > > > I did not receive any emails as to why there was a delay. > > > > Today I log in and see this message.. "This article has been deleted > > > and is not available for publication. Review The Bakery Publishing > > > Guidelines to understand why this article was deleted." > > > > Brilliant reviewer! Don't you think it would be a better to tell me > > > what is the exact problem so that I can correct it. According to > > > guidelines I do get 60 days. Right! > > > > So, what is it? The reviewers just do not care, are plain lazy or just > > > purely arrogant. > > > > If cakePHP has grown to such as level that it cannot handle the bakery > > > and breeds arrogance then I suggest that you get rid of it. > > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelpothers > > > with their CakePHP related questions. > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "CakePHP" group. > > > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelp others > > with their CakePHP related questions. > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "CakePHP" group. > > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organd help others with > their CakePHP related questions. > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, sen
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
I haven't published anything on the Bakery except for comments, so I can't comment on the process. However, I will note that the software is pretty screwed up. All my article reply notifications are blank e- mails--not even a link to the comment/article. I personally hate it when people send me e-mails or make forum posts where they don't write anything in the message body and just use the subject-line as the message. And I think this, along with dead links in the Cookbook, both make Cake look very unprofessional. But I don't think just forking the Bakery is a solution. Cake needs a centralized/official article/plugins repository. There are just a few things that need to be fixed is all. Even if someone were to fork the Bakery, it would not be as successful/useful. The Bakery is only so useful today because lots of people know about and use it--it's linked to right from the CakePHP homepage. So this "if you don't like it, just fork it" attitude is not appropriate. It's similar to the attitude that, if you find Cake's documentation lacking, you should write it yourself. FOSS is about cooperation and free exchange of ideas and information. It's not an excuse to deflect all criticism or pin all responsibilities on the user/critic. And a person does not need to have contributed to Cake's source code to level a valid criticism. On Apr 25, 2:46 pm, jacmoe wrote: > That doesn't give you carte blanche to be arrogant, does it? > > What have you done for CakePHP if I may ask? :) > > A couple of weeks ago I posted this > topic:http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_thread/thread/e3a1f469... > With the title 'Let's get rid of The Bakery'. > > I volunteered as a moderator, but there's still lots of things to do. > And the software itself needs some fixing. > > Feel free to fork it. > > I would probably delete the article as well, if there haven't been any > response in three months - I don't know what article it was, since I > concentrate on removing spam rather than approving articles. > Due to my newness to CakePHP mostly. > > So: what have you done for CakePHP ? :D > > Cheers > > Jacob > > On Apr 25, 11:42 am, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > > > > > The Bakery is supposed to be a place where cakePHP developers exchange > > ideas which in turn enhances the framework. > > > I recently published a helper and it languished for pending review for > > weeks on end. I visited the IRC and other than rude and arrogant > > answers there was not much help. > > > I did not receive any emails as to why there was a delay. > > > Today I log in and see this message.. "This article has been deleted > > and is not available for publication. Review The Bakery Publishing > > Guidelines to understand why this article was deleted." > > > Brilliant reviewer! Don't you think it would be a better to tell me > > what is the exact problem so that I can correct it. According to > > guidelines I do get 60 days. Right! > > > So, what is it? The reviewers just do not care, are plain lazy or just > > purely arrogant. > > > If cakePHP has grown to such as level that it cannot handle the bakery > > and breeds arrogance then I suggest that you get rid of it. > > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organdhelp others > > with their CakePHP related questions. > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "CakePHP" group. > > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organd help others with > their CakePHP related questions. > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Re: Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
That doesn't give you carte blanche to be arrogant, does it? What have you done for CakePHP if I may ask? :) A couple of weeks ago I posted this topic: http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php/browse_thread/thread/e3a1f46982bddd46# With the title 'Let's get rid of The Bakery'. I volunteered as a moderator, but there's still lots of things to do. And the software itself needs some fixing. Feel free to fork it. I would probably delete the article as well, if there haven't been any response in three months - I don't know what article it was, since I concentrate on removing spam rather than approving articles. Due to my newness to CakePHP mostly. So: what have you done for CakePHP ? :D Cheers Jacob On Apr 25, 11:42 am, Jayesh Wadhwani wrote: > The Bakery is supposed to be a place where cakePHP developers exchange > ideas which in turn enhances the framework. > > I recently published a helper and it languished for pending review for > weeks on end. I visited the IRC and other than rude and arrogant > answers there was not much help. > > I did not receive any emails as to why there was a delay. > > Today I log in and see this message.. "This article has been deleted > and is not available for publication. Review The Bakery Publishing > Guidelines to understand why this article was deleted." > > Brilliant reviewer! Don't you think it would be a better to tell me > what is the exact problem so that I can correct it. According to > guidelines I do get 60 days. Right! > > So, what is it? The reviewers just do not care, are plain lazy or just > purely arrogant. > > If cakePHP has grown to such as level that it cannot handle the bakery > and breeds arrogance then I suggest that you get rid of it. > > Check out the new CakePHP Questions sitehttp://cakeqs.organd help others with > their CakePHP related questions. > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "CakePHP" group. > To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
Bakery...arrogance or plain lack of attention
The Bakery is supposed to be a place where cakePHP developers exchange ideas which in turn enhances the framework. I recently published a helper and it languished for pending review for weeks on end. I visited the IRC and other than rude and arrogant answers there was not much help. I did not receive any emails as to why there was a delay. Today I log in and see this message.. "This article has been deleted and is not available for publication. Review The Bakery Publishing Guidelines to understand why this article was deleted." Brilliant reviewer! Don't you think it would be a better to tell me what is the exact problem so that I can correct it. According to guidelines I do get 60 days. Right! So, what is it? The reviewers just do not care, are plain lazy or just purely arrogant. If cakePHP has grown to such as level that it cannot handle the bakery and breeds arrogance then I suggest that you get rid of it. Check out the new CakePHP Questions site http://cakeqs.org and help others with their CakePHP related questions. You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "CakePHP" group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cake-php+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
