Re: Xerox stores
yes indeed! yea would have been the front part of the 80s date wise... can not remember exactly though.. We had a Xerox store in Metro Center here in Phx... I remember laughing as I went away how thankful our company was in an industrial park and NOT in a high traffic area... ie. only those that really needed us showed up... no mass of lolly gaggers! Ed# In a message dated 7/13/2017 9:15:05 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: A friend asked about this, figured perfect for here. Any info? thanks Jim An old (!) friend was just reminding me of the Xerox personal computer circa 1981, which ran CP/M on a Z80 and came with a nifty daisy-wheel printer, and that's all well and good. But he swears they were sold in Xerox Computer Stores that existed by the thousands - for a rather brief period. I have only the faintest memory of such a thing, I didn't start to work for Xerox until 1985, and I don't recall the stores at all. Can anyone add to that? Thanks,...
Re: Through-hole desoldering (was Re: IBM 5110 - Where does the character set live? And other questions.)
> On 13 Jul 2017, at 22:46, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 10:42 AM, William Sudbrink via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> If you have the bucks, go for a Pace station with an SX-100 desoldering >> tool. 40 pin chips >> fall out like they were never soldered in the first place. >> > > That's my experience with the Hakko 472D-01. Presumably the FR410-03 would > work as well or better. A couple of years ago I bought the UK-branded equivalent of the Zhongdi ZD-915 desoldering station and I can quite honestly say it’s the best thing I’ve bought for this hobby/obsession. To anyone struggling with solder wick and manual pumps it’s worth far more in saved time than anything else. Spares are easy to get from Zhongdi in China and since they make the things themselves you can get any spare part you need. — Adrian/Witchy Binary Dinosaurs - Celebrating Computing History from 1972 onwards
Re: Xerox stores
Jim sending you in a separate message some newspaper ads for some of these stores... they also sold osbornes and apples etc... as well as their own business xerox systems. Ed# smecc - In a message dated 7/13/2017 10:05:50 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On 07/13/2017 09:14 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > A friend asked about this, figured perfect for here. > Any info? > thanks > Jim Yup, there was definitely one in Santa Clara (IIRC). I picked up a few things at their going-out-of business sale. I think one was a DTC document feeder for a Diablo Hitype and some miscellaneous furniture. Who knows--buried in my old records, I may even have an invoice. Control Data also had retail stores at about the same time. --Chuck
RE: Cipher F880 with S100 interface card on local CL
$9.99 a piece? Mind boggling. Marc -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis via cctalk Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2017 8:15 AM To: cctalk Subject: Re: Cipher F880 with S100 interface card on local CL On 07/10/2017 10:36 PM, Ethan Dicks wrote: > Not quite - the $5 Zero is single-core. You have to go to a Pi2 or > Pi3 to get multi-core. > > Still... GHz processor _systems_ (not just bare chips) are dirt cheap. Okay, make that an Orange Pi Zero. Probably a better bang for the buck: http://www.orangepi.org/orangepizero/ But you get the point. --Chuck
RE: Xerox stores
I still have an unpopulated Xerox-820 motherboard floating around here somewhere. They were popular with ham radio operators for BBSes and later with early KA9Q TCPIP systems. bill From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Chuck Guzis via cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:05 AM To: jim stephens via cctalk Subject: Re: Xerox stores On 07/13/2017 09:14 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > A friend asked about this, figured perfect for here. > Any info? > thanks > Jim Yup, there was definitely one in Santa Clara (IIRC). I picked up a few things at their going-out-of business sale. I think one was a DTC document feeder for a Diablo Hitype and some miscellaneous furniture. Who knows--buried in my old records, I may even have an invoice. Control Data also had retail stores at about the same time. --Chuck
Re: Xerox stores
> > > > Yup, there was definitely one in Santa Clara (IIRC). I picked up a few > things at their going-out-of business sale. I think one was a DTC > document feeder for a Diablo Hitype and some miscellaneous furniture. > > Who knows--buried in my old records, I may even have an invoice. > > Control Data also had retail stores at about the same time. > > --Chuck > > And don't forget about the IBM Product Centers, bought out in the late 80's by NyNex. They sold IBM business products including copiers, typewriters, Displaywriters, System 36 accessories, printers and eventually PCs and modems and such, diskettes...
RE: Xerox stores
The IBM Product centers were bought by NYNEX, and in turn purchased by ComputerLand. The Baltimore NYNEX location was in the our ComputerLand franchise protected territory, so technically ComputerLand Corporation was in violation of our ComputerLand Franchise. This was great news for us, since it allowed us to get out of the ComputerLand Franchise, and continue until this day. Bob Roswell System Source (Same Company, was ComputerLand of Towson, ComputerLand of Baltimore, and ComputerLand of Columbia) Our Computer Museum is at https://museum.syssrc.com -Original Message- From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of william degnan via cctalk Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 9:14 AM To: Bill Gunshannon ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Xerox stores > > > > Yup, there was definitely one in Santa Clara (IIRC). I picked up a few > things at their going-out-of business sale. I think one was a DTC > document feeder for a Diablo Hitype and some miscellaneous furniture. > > Who knows--buried in my old records, I may even have an invoice. > > Control Data also had retail stores at about the same time. > > --Chuck > > And don't forget about the IBM Product Centers, bought out in the late 80's by NyNex. They sold IBM business products including copiers, typewriters, Displaywriters, System 36 accessories, printers and eventually PCs and modems and such, diskettes...
Re: Thousandth data book uploaded to bitsavers
On 7/13/17 10:11 PM, Jason T via cctalk wrote: > Many databooks I find are printed on the fragile "telephone book" type > paper, either transparent, beige or both. Do you have any techniques > for getting good images out of those, and making sure they survive the > trip through the ADF? > I've worked out settings on my Panasonic KV-S3065CW that work ok. between the brittleness and bleed-through, the old ones are a challenge. They also need to be scanned at 600dpi because of the fine print, which can be pretty noisy without adjusting the built-in noise removal. It also runs the feed slower which helps. There isn't any way to get around hand feeding the sheets though, because any bit of leftover glue sticking the pages together can crumple the second sheet.
Depressing article
https://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2017/07/nasa-computer-engineer-basement/ of events that happened two years ago that had to be obtained through a NASA FOIA request
Re: Depressing article
Unfortunately this seems to be what happens with a lot of old engineers' hardware. Thanks, Jonathan On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > https://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2017/07/nasa-computer-engineer-basement/ > > of events that happened two years ago that had to be obtained through a > NASA FOIA request > > >
Re: Depressing article
Tell me about it. We get a lot of calls from widows in the valley. I have other people deal with it now, because I find going there too depressing. I wonder if the guy had the CDC 160 that would have gone with those 162 tape drives or how much documentation was ignored and dumpstered. On 7/14/17 7:35 AM, systems_glitch wrote: > Unfortunately this seems to be what happens with a lot of old engineers' > hardware. >
Re: Depressing article
> >> >> https://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2017/07/nasa-computer-engineer-basement/ >> >> of events that happened two years ago that had to be obtained through a >> NASA FOIA request >> >> >> > > > Unfortunately this seems to be what happens with a lot of old engineers' > hardware. > > Thanks, > Jonathan The loss of data is the saddest part of this. Why would NASA say “destroy the tapes” ? The total amount of storage there would probably easily fit inside a moderately sized USB drive. Once digitized, it’s around forever. Ian
Re: Depressing article
On 7/14/17 7:45 AM, Ian McLaughlin via cctalk wrote: >> > Why would NASA say “destroy the tapes” ? Because they are a health risk, they have no facilities to recover the data, and someone decided they didn't have a budget to attempt to preserve them given they have no idea what is on them. I'm sure they would have preferred to not have gotten the call from the surplus guy in the first place, since all this will do is give them another PR black eye.
Re: Depressing article
> > Why would NASA say “destroy the tapes” ? > If I'm reading the report correctly, the tapes were quite infected with mold, and probably unreadable. I'd guess it wouldn't be worth the health hazard to try, especially given NASA's view that there was nothing historically significant there. Still sad to see the data and hardware languish and deteriorate like that, though. I have some connection to Goddard; my high school was just down the road, and I knew several people who worked there (maybe still do). -Ed-
Re: Depressing article
On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Ed Thierbach via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > > Why would NASA say “destroy the tapes” ? > > > > If I'm reading the report correctly, the tapes were quite infected with > mold, and probably unreadable. I'd guess it wouldn't be worth the health > hazard to try, especially given NASA's view that there was nothing > historically significant there. > > Still sad to see the data and hardware languish and deteriorate like that, > though. I have some connection to Goddard; my high school was just down > the road, and I knew several people who worked there (maybe still do). > I recently went through the trouble of reading in ~300 floppies in my Rainbow floppy collection... I'm glad I did since I found a couple of mildly interesting things... Warner
Re: Depressing article
The amount of data stored on 325 tapes would have been at most 58.5 gigabytes assuming 6250 encoding and single records over the length of the tape. Given the time frame I would guess that these were probably only 800 bpi and thus the max would have been 7.5 gigabytes. And probably at most half of that even assuming full tapes due to small records and all the inter record gaps. After applying modern compression techniques we are looking at less than a gig of data. You probably can't find any cute cat videos on You tube that take that little of space. What is sad is that some minor functionary was allowed to make the recommendation to destroy this. -- Doug Ingraham PDP-8 SN 1175
Re: Depressing article
On 2017-07-14 11:13 AM, Doug Ingraham via cctalk wrote: The amount of data stored on 325 tapes would have been at most 58.5 gigabytes assuming 6250 encoding and single records over the length of the tape. Given the time frame I would guess that these were probably only 800 bpi and thus the max would have been 7.5 gigabytes. And probably at most half of that even assuming full tapes due to small records and all the inter record gaps. After applying modern compression techniques we are looking at less than a gig of data. You probably can't find any cute cat videos on You tube that take that little of space. What is sad is that some minor functionary was allowed to make the recommendation to destroy this. Calculations of how much storage would be required aren't of much interest if the data itself isn't safely or cost effectively recoverable. The fault here isn't with NASA -- it's that few of us are able to store artefacts in suitable conditions, have means or time to properly process or archive or publish them, or have succession plans for what's in our basements. Of course, relatives (if any) eventually have to deal with them at the worst moment, generally without means, context, or time. --T
Re: Xerox stores
On 07/13/2017 11:14 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: But he swears they were sold in Xerox Computer Stores that existed by the thousands - for a rather brief period. I have only the faintest memory of such a thing, I didn't start to work for Xerox until 1985, and I don't recall the stores at all. Can anyone add to that? Hmmm, I really don't remember any such thing. I suspect that some independent computer store chain got an OK to have a big Xerox logo out on the front. That would be quite believable. Some time in the early 80's there were computer stores popping up overnight like mushrooms, and disappearing just about as fast. Jon
Re: Through-hole desoldering (was Re: IBM 5110 - Where does the character set live? And other questions.)
On 07/13/2017 11:26 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: On 7/13/2017 6:52 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: On 07/13/2017 11:02 AM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: On 7/13/2017 12:31 AM, Eric Smith via cctalk wrote: There are also vacuum desoldering stations that use "shop air" to derive the vacuum, rather than having an internal pump. I've never used them as I don't normally have an air compressor anywhere near my electronics workbench. This works very well. The best station for 7400 type IC's was a Weller vacuum desoldering station. I have a Pace station at work with a vacuum pump in the box. At home I have one with a foot pedal that contains a venturi vacuum generator that requires compressed air. These work really well. I think the handpieces are model SX-70. Jon I had one of the Wellers with the probe and head like the DS-100 with the builtin vacuum. It was nowhere near as good as the one with the shop air venturi. The latter hit with enough more force to clear a hole more often that it was the one to have. Nice to have a portable home one, however. The air/venturi station is quite portable, but the place you use it has to be plumbed for shop air, so not as portable as it might seem. Now that SMT is the rule, I don't use it as much. Jon
Re: Xerox stores
On 07/14/2017 09:00 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > Hmmm, I really don't remember any such thing. I suspect that some > independent computer store chain got an OK to have a big Xerox logo out > on the front. That would be quite believable. Some time in the early > 80's there were computer stores popping up overnight like mushrooms, and > disappearing just about as fast. Nope--they were real. I recall that the one I visited wasn't that far from the Moore Business Products store. As I mentioned, CDC had storefronts--I still have a Wren II SCSI drive that I picked up at the Twin Cities store liquidation. TI had a store in the Stanford shopping center. --Chuck
Re: Xerox stores
I remember going to a Xerox store in '85 and buying a brand-new Macintosh. From: "cctalk" To: "cctalk" Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 9:24:10 AM Subject: Re: Xerox stores On 07/14/2017 09:00 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: > Hmmm, I really don't remember any such thing. I suspect that some > independent computer store chain got an OK to have a big Xerox logo out > on the front. That would be quite believable. Some time in the early > 80's there were computer stores popping up overnight like mushrooms, and > disappearing just about as fast. Nope--they were real. I recall that the one I visited wasn't that far from the Moore Business Products store. As I mentioned, CDC had storefronts--I still have a Wren II SCSI drive that I picked up at the Twin Cities store liquidation. TI had a store in the Stanford shopping center. --Chuck
RE: Depressing article
Many, many years ago I acquired a bunch of Terak micros from a storage locker. It was being leased by my employer and no one had been tracking what was stored there. One day a beancounter showed up, questioned the monthly payment and instructed us to "clean it out". I got the Teraks. But, there was another item sitting in the storage locker. An Array Processor. Still bolted to the pallet it shipped on. Never used. was intended for use with a Prime 850 but that deal never went through. It could also have been used on a VAX (and maybe even a PDP-11 but I can't say that for sure.) I would have taken it except for the fact that it was completely covered in bird crap because it was out of its packaging and not covered with anyone. This was mid 1980's. Anybody here remember what these things were worth then? :-( bill From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of systems_glitch via cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 10:35 AM To: Al Kossow; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Depressing article Unfortunately this seems to be what happens with a lot of old engineers' hardware. Thanks, Jonathan On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 10:25 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > https://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2017/07/nasa-computer-engineer-basement/ > > of events that happened two years ago that had to be obtained through a > NASA FOIA request > > >
RE: Depressing article
PR black eye? I doubt it. Who, other than the people here, is ever going to hear about it? bill From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Al Kossow via cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org] Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 11:06 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Depressing article On 7/14/17 7:45 AM, Ian McLaughlin via cctalk wrote: >> > Why would NASA say “destroy the tapes” ? Because they are a health risk, they have no facilities to recover the data, and someone decided they didn't have a budget to attempt to preserve them given they have no idea what is on them. I'm sure they would have preferred to not have gotten the call from the surplus guy in the first place, since all this will do is give them another PR black eye.
Re: Xerox stores
Xerox comps were featured copiers too... plus some other brands.. I always had the feeling they were XEROX company sponsored... but? In a newspaper archive search I come up with a lot of ads across the country between 81 and 83... I sent some adds to some of the people that were discussing this last night. This comes at a time of interest as I am working on documenting some of the early computer biz in AZ... part of it is pretty easy as I was involved in it... but there is that 77 to 79 area that still holds some mystery for me. If anyone has any thing related to early PHX Byte shop etc... drop me a note off list. Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 7/14/2017 9:06:13 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: On 07/13/2017 11:14 PM, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: > > > But he swears they were sold in Xerox Computer Stores that > existed by the > thousands - for a rather brief period. > > I have only the faintest memory of such a thing, I didn't > start to work for > Xerox until 1985, and I don't recall the stores at all. > Can anyone add to that? > Hmmm, I really don't remember any such thing. I suspect that some independent computer store chain got an OK to have a big Xerox logo out on the front. That would be quite believable. Some time in the early 80's there were computer stores popping up overnight like mushrooms, and disappearing just about as fast. Jon
Re: Depressing article
On 07/14/2017 08:37 AM, Toby Thain via cctalk wrote: > Calculations of how much storage would be required aren't of much > interest if the data itself isn't safely or cost effectively recoverable. > > The fault here isn't with NASA -- it's that few of us are able to store > artefacts in suitable conditions, have means or time to properly process > or archive or publish them, or have succession plans for what's in our > basements. Of course, relatives (if any) eventually have to deal with > them at the worst moment, generally without means, context, or time. You have no idea how much data is stashed away in the form of tape in a NASA/JPL warehouse. Many of the tapes have very sketchy labels--you have to remember that NASA is a lot like many of contract vendors like Lockheed. A project winds up, much is discarded. An employee leaves, whatever he leaves in the office is either shredded or warehoused. A lot of the JPL tapes that I'm working with have little information on the labels--a tape number, the person's name, his extension. Often, not even the density/number of tracks on the tape. Few contain ANSI-type volume labels--and you have to be a pretty good guesser to even determine what *system* was used to create the tape. At some point, without context, it's all just bits. For the companies that do special work for government, the product left over after the conclusion of the contract is often viewed as a security liability and so is destroyed. I recall one such situation that, were it not for a tape kept as a personal possession, a contract worth a couple hundred million dollars would have been lost. As far as what's on the Internet--forget it--not even Brewster Kahle can keep up with it. We're writing our history in dry sand in a windy climate. --Chuck
Re: Xerox stores
On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:13 AM, william degnan via cctalk wrote: > And don't forget about the IBM Product Centers, bought out in the late 80's > by NyNex. They sold IBM business products including copiers, typewriters, > Displaywriters, System 36 accessories, printers and eventually PCs and > modems and such, diskettes... Although I lived mere miles from it, I don't remember ever seeing this DEC retail outlet: http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/content/computing/DEC/ChicagoDECStore.pdf
Re: Depressing article
On 7/14/17 9:34 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > PR black eye? I doubt it. Who, other than the people here, is ever going > to hear about it? anyone who saw the story posted on arstechnica.co.uk today, which is where the original posting points to
Re: Xerox stores
On Thu, 13 Jul 2017, jim stephens via cctalk wrote: But he swears they were sold in Xerox Computer Stores that existed by the thousands - for a rather brief period. Many dozens, certainly. Probably less than 100. Not "thousands". https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1981/10/19/xerox-opens-2-stores-here-retailing-small-computers/ed6858b0-8e17-4c3c-a78b-56b44bdaba87/?utm_term=.6eafed0a477c (about 31st and 32nd in October 1981) https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/business/1981/10/19/xerox-opens-2-stores-here-retailing-small-computers/ed6858b0-8e17-4c3c-a78b-56b44bdaba87/?utm_term=.6eafed0a477c (July 1982, Xerox announced that they would no longer carry Apple in their 46 stores) They did not outnumber the IBM retail computer stores (84?). (nor the SEARS computer stores that popped up (Sears negotiated a deal to retail the 5150 immediately after its release August 1981)) Even the "Tandy Radio Shack Computer Center" stores only numbered 500. (just the specialized "computer stores", not counting the TRS-80 for sale in the corner of every Radio Shack store (7400 peak)) Computerland peaked at 800 stores in 1985. Best Buy has 1026 stores, but that's not computers. Fry's has 34 stores. Apple has 498 stores. They've caught up with Radio Shack's COMPUTER STORE peak (not retail electronics). They haven't caught up with Computerland's peak. Yet. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
RE: Through-hole desoldering (was Re: IBM 5110 - Where does the character set live? And other questions.)
> > A couple of years ago I bought the UK-branded equivalent of the Zhongdi ZD- > 915 desoldering station and I can quite honestly say it’s the best thing I’ve > bought for this hobby/obsession. To anyone struggling with solder wick and > manual pumps it’s worth far more in saved time than anything else. > > Spares are easy to get from Zhongdi in China and since they make the things > themselves you can get any spare part you need. > I have one too, CPC sell it as Duratool (http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00672/desoldering-station-uk-eu-plug/dp/SD01384) and yes it has been worth it. Regards Rob
Re: Xerox stores
Even the "Tandy Radio Shack Computer Center" stores only numbered 500. (just the specialized "computer stores", not counting the TRS-80 for sale in the corner of every Radio Shack store (7400 peak)) Correction: The majority of the "Tandy Radio Shack Computer Center"s were IN Radio Shack retail stores (a substantial roped off area), rather than the few stand-alone "COMPUTER ONLY" stores.
Re: Depressing article
On 7/14/2017 9:39 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: You have no idea how much data is stashed away in the form of tape in a NASA/JPL warehouse. Many of the tapes have very sketchy labels--you have to remember that NASA is a lot like many of contract vendors like Lockheed. A project winds up, much is discarded. An employee leaves, whatever he leaves in the office is either shredded or warehoused. I have recovered quite a large numbers of copies of that data. No idea what is on them however. A friend who has had a bad run of luck had them, and accumulated them when working @ JPL quite a long time ago (70s). He would buy tapes, and go into the library and select tapes which were on file and have them copied. They are not JPL copies, but were made by JPL on request at the time. I've got several hundred tapes to sort thru. not well stored, but not black mold messes either. I've not seen this bit about copying tapes mentioned in all the press, but I do know that it was done. I went on a private tour thru one of his contacts, and we visited the library. still could get copies of the data then. Sad that noone was doing that if the archives have deteriorated. thanks Jim
Re: Xerox stores
we had a stand alone one in metro center phx... wold drop.in with a few of my employees and play Dino wars on the coco there Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Friday, July 14, 2017 Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Even the "Tandy Radio Shack Computer Center" stores only numbered 500. > (just the specialized "computer stores", not counting the TRS-80 for sale > in the corner of every Radio Shack store (7400 peak)) Correction: The majority of the "Tandy Radio Shack Computer Center"s were IN Radio Shack retail stores (a substantial roped off area), rather than the few stand-alone "COMPUTER ONLY" stores.
Re: Xerox stores
we had a stand alone one in metro center phx... wold drop.in with a few of my employees and play Dino wars on the coco there Sent from AOL Mobile Mail On Friday, July 14, 2017 Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > Even the "Tandy Radio Shack Computer Center" stores only numbered 500. > (just the specialized "computer stores", not counting the TRS-80 for sale > in the corner of every Radio Shack store (7400 peak)) Correction: The majority of the "Tandy Radio Shack Computer Center"s were IN Radio Shack retail stores (a substantial roped off area), rather than the few stand-alone "COMPUTER ONLY" stores.
Re: Depressing article
='[ -- Anders Nelson +1 (517) 775-6129 www.erogear.com On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 3:06 PM, jim stephens via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > > > On 7/14/2017 9:39 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > >> You have no idea how much data is stashed away in the form of tape in a >> NASA/JPL warehouse. Many of the tapes have very sketchy labels--you >> have to remember that NASA is a lot like many of contract vendors like >> Lockheed. A project winds up, much is discarded. An employee leaves, >> whatever he leaves in the office is either shredded or warehoused. >> > I have recovered quite a large numbers of copies of that data. No idea > what is on them however. A friend who has had a bad run of luck had them, > and accumulated them when working @ JPL quite a long time ago (70s). > > He would buy tapes, and go into the library and select tapes which were on > file and have them copied. They are not JPL copies, but were made by JPL > on request at the time. I've got several hundred tapes to sort thru. not > well stored, but not black mold messes either. > > I've not seen this bit about copying tapes mentioned in all the press, but > I do know that it was done. I went on a private tour thru one of his > contacts, and we visited the library. still could get copies of the data > then. Sad that noone was doing that if the archives have deteriorated. > > thanks > Jim >
Re: Thousandth data book uploaded to bitsavers
Many databooks I find are printed on the fragile "telephone book" type paper, either transparent, beige or both. Do you have any techniques for getting good images out of those, and making sure they survive the trip through the ADF? Always scan those monochrome. (A lot of people insist on color scanning of black and white materials) Some scanners have a built-in red filter that helps with yellowed paper. Transparent/translucent materials will often do substantially better with a black pressure pad on the back, instead of white.
Re: Thousandth data book uploaded to bitsavers
> On Jul 14, 2017, at 3:23 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > >> Many databooks I find are printed on the fragile "telephone book" type >> paper, either transparent, beige or both. Do you have any techniques >> for getting good images out of those, and making sure they survive the >> trip through the ADF? > > Always scan those monochrome. (A lot of people insist on color scanning of > black and white materials) You mean grayscale, right -- not bitonal. I sometimes scan on copier/scanner units because they happen to be available, but they are often bitonal and produce images with lots of black noise pixels. With grayscale scans, you can avoid those by tweaking the threshold and/or adjusting the curves. paul
Re: Thousandth data book uploaded to bitsavers
Many databooks I find are printed on the fragile "telephone book" type paper, either transparent, beige or both. Do you have any techniques for getting good images out of those, and making sure they survive the trip through the ADF? Always scan those monochrome. (A lot of people insist on color scanning of black and white materials) On Fri, 14 Jul 2017, Paul Koning wrote: You mean grayscale, right -- not bitonal. I sometimes scan on copier/scanner units because they happen to be available, but they are often bitonal and produce images with lots of black noise pixels. With grayscale scans, you can avoid those by tweaking the threshold and/or adjusting the curves. Yes. Although SOME scanners have good threshold levels for bitonal. What I object to is people who insist on 24 bit color with lossless compression. We are after the information content here, not a study of paper texture and analysis of aging/deterioration. Sometimes a lossy compression will try to delete some of the noise, whereas a lossless compression will retain it. "Doctor Marty" (formerly Coco) runs a large project digitizing some periodicals from the 1920s and 1930s.
Re: Depressing article
On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > > https://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2017/07/nasa-computer-engineer-basement/ > > of events that happened two years ago that had to be obtained through a > NASA FOIA request > Another depressing recent article: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/12/scientific-data-lost-forever/356422/ -- Eric Christopherson
Re: Depressing article
On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Eric Christopherson < echristopher...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> >> https://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2017/07/nasa-computer-engi >> neer-basement/ >> >> of events that happened two years ago that had to be obtained through a >> NASA FOIA request >> > > Another depressing recent article: https://www.theatlantic.com/ > national/archive/2013/12/scientific-data-lost-forever/356422/ > Whoops, not *recent* recent. (I only just encountered it.) > > -- > Eric Christopherson > -- Eric Christopherson
Re: Thousandth data book uploaded to bitsavers
Hurrah! On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 4:03 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > As of this morning, there are now over a thousand data books on bitsavers, > and well over four > million pages in all of the pdfs there. > > In the middle of June, I got my fifth large databook collection, and > didn't have space for it, > so I've been doing dedup/recycling and scanning of what I hadn't already > done to try to deal with > having it come in. > > > > >
Re: Xerox stores
- Original Message - From: "Jason T via cctalk" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 12:46 PM Subject: Re: Xerox stores > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:13 AM, william degnan via cctalk > wrote: >> And don't forget about the IBM Product Centers, bought out in the late 80's >> by NyNex. They sold IBM business products including copiers, typewriters, >> Displaywriters, System 36 accessories, printers and eventually PCs and >> modems and such, diskettes... > > Although I lived mere miles from it, I don't remember ever seeing this > DEC retail outlet: > > http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/content/computing/DEC/ChicagoDECStore.pdf - There was a DEC retail store here in Mississauga (suburb of Toronto) that looked just like that; still have a printer and some other stuff that I bought there. m
Re: Thousandth data book uploaded to bitsavers
On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 01:03:56PM -0700, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote: > As of this morning, there are now over a thousand data books on > bitsavers, and well over four million pages in all of the pdfs > there. Thank you. So what is the title of a lucky manual? -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_r...@bigfoot.com **
Re: Thousandth data book uploaded to bitsavers
On 7/14/17 1:42 PM, Tomasz Rola wrote: > So what is the title of a lucky manual? > toshiba/_dataBooks/1988_Toshiba_TLCS-68000_Users_Manual.pdf
Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 plastic paddles/switches?
I recently acquired an Ithaca Intersystems DPS-1 that had several plastic paddles missing. All but one switch appears to be there but 14 of the orange plastic paddles are missing. I am assuming they are unobtanium so I guess the question is, has anyone drawn out and 3D printed any paddle replacements for existing switches? I have a 3D printer so that won't be a problem. The missing switch is the On/Off switch. Was this different than any of the on/off switches? There is currently a flat bat handled switch that looks very "Altair 8800b" like, which is great because I could use a spare. Are the switches (without paddle) hard to find? Any paddle/switch info is much appreciated. Santo
Re: Xerox stores
I liked the DEC retail store over in mid Phx. the sales guy was an ex pdp8 customer engineer! leaned much from him! I mentioned metro center in several posts contains places it also harbored the corp. hq for Dataphase ( AZ version of computerland) and also Businessland... I watched them all die... Ed# _www.smecc.org_ (http://www.smecc.org) In a message dated 7/14/2017 1:27:29 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, cctalk@classiccmp.org writes: - Original Message - From: "Jason T via cctalk" To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 12:46 PM Subject: Re: Xerox stores > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 8:13 AM, william degnan via cctalk > wrote: >> And don't forget about the IBM Product Centers, bought out in the late 80's >> by NyNex. They sold IBM business products including copiers, typewriters, >> Displaywriters, System 36 accessories, printers and eventually PCs and >> modems and such, diskettes... > > Although I lived mere miles from it, I don't remember ever seeing this > DEC retail outlet: > > http://chiclassiccomp.org/docs/content/computing/DEC/ChicagoDECStore.pdf - There was a DEC retail store here in Mississauga (suburb of Toronto) that looked just like that; still have a printer and some other stuff that I bought there. m
Re: Depressing article
This is often called "The Information Era". I've always called it "The Information Lost Era". You may quote me. Why the NASA person said to immediately destroy the tapes, one can only guess. Those tapes belonged to the people of the USA. They were not some single persons option to destroy. We as tax payer own that information. Dwight From: cctalk on behalf of Eric Christopherson via cctalk Sent: Friday, July 14, 2017 1:03:01 PM To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts Subject: Re: Depressing article On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 3:02 PM, Eric Christopherson < echristopher...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 9:25 AM, Al Kossow via cctalk < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > >> >> https://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2017/07/nasa-computer-engi >> neer-basement/ >> >> of events that happened two years ago that had to be obtained through a >> NASA FOIA request >> > > Another depressing recent article: https://www.theatlantic.com/ > national/archive/2013/12/scientific-data-lost-forever/356422/ > Whoops, not *recent* recent. (I only just encountered it.) > > -- > Eric Christopherson > -- Eric Christopherson
Re: Depressing article
> On Jul 14, 2017, at 5:59 PM, dwight via cctalk wrote: > > This is often called "The Information Era". > > I've always called it "The Information Lost Era". > > You may quote me. > > Why the NASA person said to immediately destroy the tapes, one can only guess. > > Those tapes belonged to the people of the USA. They were not some single > persons option to destroy. We as tax payer own that information. This isn't always true. The article says the systems came from an IBM contractor facility and the data could have been internal work product. The same is true for retention policies of records. Not everything the government produces are official records that needs to be retained. And even if they are, most artifacts have specific time limits on how long they need to be retained. For someone that complains the government is destroying "their" data there's probably more people complaining that the government would be wasting "their" money to do the work of trying to read the data. -A
Re: Xerox stores
On 07/14/2017 11:24 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 07/14/2017 09:00 AM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: Hmmm, I really don't remember any such thing. I suspect that some independent computer store chain got an OK to have a big Xerox logo out on the front. That would be quite believable. Some time in the early 80's there were computer stores popping up overnight like mushrooms, and disappearing just about as fast. Nope--they were real. I recall that the one I visited wasn't that far from the Moore Business Products store. OK, I was living in the St. Louis area, and I don't remember any Xerox stores here. I knew a lot of the people who owned computer stores here around that time. I was the president and sort-of founder of our local computer club, so I knew most of the people involved with retail computer stuff from about 1976 to at least 1985. But, of course, there was a LOT more activity in certain areas than my own backwater. Jon
Re: Depressing article
On 07/14/2017 11:32 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: Many, many years ago I acquired a bunch of Terak micros from a storage locker. It was being leased by my employer and no one had been tracking what was stored there. One day a beancounter showed up, questioned the monthly payment and instructed us to "clean it out". I got the Teraks. But, there was another item sitting in the storage locker. An Array Processor. Still bolted to the pallet it shipped on. Never used. was intended for use with a Prime 850 but that deal never went through. It could also have been used on a VAX (and maybe even a PDP-11 but I can't say that for sure.) I would have taken it except for the fact that it was completely covered in bird crap because it was out of its packaging and not covered with anyone. This was mid 1980's. Anybody here remember what these things were worth then? :-( $50K for a small one. I scrapped a CSPI array processor that was put on our VAX 780. They guys who bought it had a serial program that was written all in integers, and went out and bought this to accelerate their program. I got it running, showed them how to use it, and they said "Oh, it needs floating point, it is too hard to recode our program!" So, 50K down the drain! Geez! Jon
Re: Xerox stores
Backwater == St. Louis, BTW, a place I visit pretty often. Still my all time favorite, Stu's Gateway Electronics still going. Recently touched base with them when I found a giveaway. My cousin caught hell when he took me to one of their first locations down on Delmar. You don't take a 10 or 12 year old who likes to junk to Gateway w/o expecting consequences. Sadly "junky electronics on natural bridge" Electronics Exchange is going or gone, with the owner retired. Gotta leave things kind of bleak but for Gateway. I did see a "Boeing Surplus" sign on Lindbergh, north of 270, but have not gotten anyone to go check it out. The original poster (Jon) had quite a nice pile as did I as well, but those were days with a lot more nice stuff than now. (70s) thanks Jim On 7/14/2017 6:24 PM, Jon Elson via cctalk wrote: I knew a lot of the people who owned computer stores here around that time.
