[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
FWIW, I just received a Gotek last week and it uses an AT32F415. m On Sat, Jan 21, 2023 at 12:28 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > After doing a little web browsing, it seems that Gotek has adapted the > Artery AT32F435 MCU on their newer units. > > This is a huge improvement over the STM32F107 used on these originally. > 288MHz, lots of flash 384KB SRAM. Looks to be a souped-up crossbreed of > the STM32F4 and F7 MCUs. > > I'll have to check pinouts to see how the Artery MCUs match the STM > varieties, but I suspect they'll be pretty close, as Artery also makes > clones of standard STM32 chips (e.g. AT32F407 vs. STM32F407). I'll be > surprised if I couldn't use my STLINK programmer on one. > > This isn't unusual for the Chinese; there are several clone makers of > the STM32 series. I've run into a few that are phony-branded with the > ST logo. > > But that AT32F435 in the new Gotek points to being able to do more than > simply emulate a floppy. Definitely everything including the kitchen > sink type of MCU. > > > --Chuck >
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On 1/20/2023 10:32 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 1/20/23 16:25, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: I'm game to try. I see them nominally listed for sale, so I asked for a quote for 10. We'll see if they are really available or not. I've also seen them being offered on AliExpress... I ordered 10 from there (utsource has been misleading on their parts qtys lately). We'll see if they show up and work. I probably will need help with a design, if anyone's interested in assisting. --CHuck -- Jim Brain br...@jbrain.com www.jbrain.com
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
After doing a little web browsing, it seems that Gotek has adapted the Artery AT32F435 MCU on their newer units. This is a huge improvement over the STM32F107 used on these originally. 288MHz, lots of flash 384KB SRAM. Looks to be a souped-up crossbreed of the STM32F4 and F7 MCUs. I'll have to check pinouts to see how the Artery MCUs match the STM varieties, but I suspect they'll be pretty close, as Artery also makes clones of standard STM32 chips (e.g. AT32F407 vs. STM32F407). I'll be surprised if I couldn't use my STLINK programmer on one. This isn't unusual for the Chinese; there are several clone makers of the STM32 series. I've run into a few that are phony-branded with the ST logo. But that AT32F435 in the new Gotek points to being able to do more than simply emulate a floppy. Definitely everything including the kitchen sink type of MCU. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
I came into this convo late isthmus for 5.25 usb? I found only 3.1/2 disk...help,? I need 5.25 USB disk drive thanks ed sharpe Sent from the all new AOL app for Android On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 9:32 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote:On 1/20/23 16:25, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > I'm game to try. I see them nominally listed for sale, so I asked for a> > quote for 10. We'll see if they are really available or not. I've also seen them being offered on AliExpress... --CHuck
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On 1/20/23 16:25, Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: > I'm game to try. I see them nominally listed for sale, so I asked for a > quote for 10. We'll see if they are really available or not. I've also seen them being offered on AliExpress... --CHuck
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023, geneb via cctalk wrote: I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the AppleSauce yet. Yes, it requires a Mac. Yes, they're currently out of stock, but Yes, it's absolutely the best solution out there for disk imaging. https://applesaucefdc.com/ I've used it for both hard & soft-sectored 5.25" disks and 3.5" disks. I've also imaged a few 8" disks using it, and I know more than one person has used it to image RX02 disks. It'll image just about anything, including PC98 disks. GCR, FM, MFM, it'll do it all. The link that Sellam sent https://hackaday.com/2021/01/27/reconstructing-data-from-a-corrupt-apple-floppy-disk/ was about using Apple Sauce
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the AppleSauce yet. Yes, it requires a Mac. Yes, they're currently out of stock, but Yes, it's absolutely the best solution out there for disk imaging. https://applesaucefdc.com/ I've used it for both hard & soft-sectored 5.25" disks and 3.5" disks. I've also imaged a few 8" disks using it, and I know more than one person has used it to image RX02 disks. It'll image just about anything, including PC98 disks. GCR, FM, MFM, it'll do it all. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/20/2023 12:31 AM, Tony Jones via cctalk wrote: On Thu, Jan 19, 2023, 10:18 PM Jim Brain via cctalk wrote: cheaper than KryoFLux (I believe it was designed as a rebuttal for the high priced and "walled garden" nature of KryoFlux) or other related projects like DiscFerret and/or discontinued solutions like CatWeazel (which was a plug in card and harder to support on newer machines) I figured it just was a logical continuation Keir Fraser also wrote FlashFloppy (the alternative firmware for the Gotek) and the associated Disk Utilities software which also is now used in GW. Obviously FOSS is his focus (Xen etc). I'm trying now to forget how much I spent on my Kryoflux :-) As someone who writes FLOSS, it's rarely just to redo something already done well. It's either that bugs or missing features in the original solution annoy me, the cost is too high for the use case, or the designers of the closed source item lord it over the consumers. I don't remember all the details, but I seem to remember all 3 of those were in play when GW came out. Regardless, Keir is an impressive person for making the various projects (FLashFloppy and GW). I think nowadays, everyone immediately replaces Gotek std firmware with FF on the devices as soon as they hit the mailbox. -- Jim Brain br...@jbrain.com www.jbrain.com
[cctalk] Re: scsi
Indeed not not all SCSI terminators are created equal, there where three
types of signalling used Single Ended (SE) High Voltage Differential
(HVD) and Low Voltage Differential (LVD). LVD was created to squeeze a
bit more speed out of parallel SCSI. Any complaint LVD device needs to
be able to operate in SE mode as well as LVD and if they detect a SE
device on the bus all devices on the bus switch to SE mode, which is why
your terminator is marked LVD + SE. The other thing that LVD devices
are supposed to do is if they detect a HVD device on the bus the LVD
device isolates from the bus so that would be the "+ HVD ISO". SE
devices on the bus can be detected because one signal line is pulled to
ground by SE devices but not LVD, I don't recall which pin it is as
parallel SCSI is in what now seems the distant past. If your drive has
built in terminators and the terminator on you cable is not crimped on,
you could enable the termination on the drive and plug the drive at the
end of the cable in place of the terminator.
One thing to watch out for on your disk drive is many LVD drives have a
jumper to force SE mode you will want to remove that, although if force
to SE mode it should still work but will be slower, what does not work
is introducing a SE device into a bus that is already operating in LVD
mode, all the devices suddenly switching to SE mode generally causes the
using system to fall over.
You SCSI adapter card should always be set to address 7 as that is the
highest priority address and what you set the address on your drive to
will depend on. I have seen SCSI adapter that start scanning the bus at
0 and stop as soon as they do not get a response in which case you would
want your drive to be 0, most well designed adapter will scan all
addresses regardless, but if you plan to boot off the SCSI disk they may
have a limitation on the address the card will boot from. The most
important thing is that all device on the bus, including the adapter
have a unique address.
Paul.
On 2023-01-20 20:50, Chris via cctalk wrote:
Ok that. But I was told somewhere by someone that not all terminators are created equal. I'd have to go look up the discussion.
On Friday, January 20, 2023, 07:24:50 PM EST, Bill Degnan via cctalk
wrote:
I would read up to confirm the correct drive number so that variable is
confirmed.
Bill
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:13 PM Chris via cctalk
wrote:
How do you know if a termimation is suitable? Is connection all you have
to worry about? I have an HP Ultra 320 drive, a 320/m compliant adapter (id
jumpered to 2. Does a this need to be 0 for a single drive setup?), the
cable with an ultra 320m terminator (" LVD + SE ACT NEG + HVD ISO " printed
on it). Everything seems legit. I want to plug this into 2 different
serverboards, an Intel SCB2, dual PIII, dual ultra 160/lvd channels, and an
IBM xseries 350/Netfinity 6000 (8682 serverboard), quad PIII xeon slot 2
cpu's, similar scsi capability.
Whaddaya think?
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 2023-01-20 1:45 p.m., Ali via cctalk wrote: The funny thing is that James and I were talking about doing some PCBs and kits for the things, then decided that it would appeal to too few people. I still have the prototype, done in wire-wrap. Chuck, It may be a good time to dust off the old design and bring it out! ;) -Ali The greased pig. :) Ben.
[cctalk] Re: scsi
Ok that. But I was told somewhere by someone that not all terminators are
created equal. I'd have to go look up the discussion.
On Friday, January 20, 2023, 07:24:50 PM EST, Bill Degnan via cctalk
wrote:
I would read up to confirm the correct drive number so that variable is
confirmed.
Bill
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:13 PM Chris via cctalk
wrote:
> How do you know if a termimation is suitable? Is connection all you have
> to worry about? I have an HP Ultra 320 drive, a 320/m compliant adapter (id
> jumpered to 2. Does a this need to be 0 for a single drive setup?), the
> cable with an ultra 320m terminator (" LVD + SE ACT NEG + HVD ISO " printed
> on it). Everything seems legit. I want to plug this into 2 different
> serverboards, an Intel SCB2, dual PIII, dual ultra 160/lvd channels, and an
> IBM xseries 350/Netfinity 6000 (8682 serverboard), quad PIII xeon slot 2
> cpu's, similar scsi capability.
>
> Whaddaya think?
>
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On 1/20/2023 5:04 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 1/20/23 14:31, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: On Fri, 20 Jan 2023, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: An alternative method is described here: https://blog.adafruit.com/2021/12/08/how-to-build-a-working-external-5-25-usb-floppy-drive-vintagecomputing-ibmpc/ There is also the SMSC USB97CFDC2 floppy usb controller. Al has the datasheet archived on bitsavers: http://www.bitsavers.org/components/standardMicrosystems/_dataSheets/USB97CFDC2-01.pdf What more could you ask for--legacy floppy interface, external flash programming... I'm a bit surprised that nobody's come up with a design using this creature. Of course, there's the possibility that they're unobtainium... --Chuck I'm game to try. I see them nominally listed for sale, so I asked for a quote for 10. We'll see if they are really available or not. Jim -- Jim Brain br...@jbrain.com www.jbrain.com
[cctalk] Re: scsi
I would read up to confirm the correct drive number so that variable is
confirmed.
Bill
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023, 4:13 PM Chris via cctalk
wrote:
> How do you know if a termimation is suitable? Is connection all you have
> to worry about? I have an HP Ultra 320 drive, a 320/m compliant adapter (id
> jumpered to 2. Does a this need to be 0 for a single drive setup?), the
> cable with an ultra 320m terminator (" LVD + SE ACT NEG + HVD ISO " printed
> on it). Everything seems legit. I want to plug this into 2 different
> serverboards, an Intel SCB2, dual PIII, dual ultra 160/lvd channels, and an
> IBM xseries 350/Netfinity 6000 (8682 serverboard), quad PIII xeon slot 2
> cpu's, similar scsi capability.
>
> Whaddaya think?
>
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/20/23 15:31, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > I would like something for MFM disks but that tends to be much more > expensive than a $20 GOTEK. I have a couple of Dave Gesswein's boards > but haven't got around to building them yet. I doubt it could be done > cheaper and I don't think The Blue Pill has the horsepower to do it. > Dave uses the Beagle Bone. The Gotek is little more than an STM32F107 (i.e. F1 MCU) with some driver/level shifting logic and an interface. The big advantage is the 64KB SRAM. A "black pill" using the STM32F411 or STM32F405 is far more powerful and still in the $5 range if ordered through AliExpress. Has a better internal design for peripherals. The Gotek really isn't much more powerful than a blue pill (uses an STM32F103, but only 20KB SRAM). FWIW, --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 4:31 PM Bill Gunshannon via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > On 1/20/23 16:05, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote: > > On 2023-01-20 15:58, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: > >> On 1/20/23 15:45, Ali via cctalk wrote: > The funny thing is that James and I were talking about doing some PCBs > and kits for the things, then decided that it would appeal to too few > people. I still have the prototype, done in wire-wrap. > >>> > >>> Chuck, > >>> > >>> It may be a good time to dust off the old design and bring it out! ;) > >>> > >> > >> Why? There are already a number of functional (and in > >> most cases cheap) floppy emulators. It is unlikely > >> even the boards could be made to match the price and > >> in any case just how many of us do you really think are > >> left? :-) > > > > I was looking at Chuck's pertec interface this morning, and I really > > like what he did. If he can pull of the same with the stm32f407 for > > floppies, I'm in. Boards with the stm32 are cheap, and actually > > available. And all in source, free compilers etc. > > > > (and MFM disks, ESDI disks, and, and ;-) ) > > I would like something for MFM disks but that tends to be much more > expensive than a $20 GOTEK. I have a couple of Dave Gesswein's boards > but haven't got around to building them yet. I doubt it could be done > cheaper and I don't think The Blue Pill has the horsepower to do it. > Dave uses the Beagle Bone. > I bought mine assembled and tested. And I've had no problems with them at all, modulo needing to work with David on a really weird disk I found in the wild to get his software updated to cope that the weird pathology it presented... His devices are the best and well worth the money. Warner
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/20/23 16:05, emanuel stiebler via cctalk wrote: On 2023-01-20 15:58, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 1/20/23 15:45, Ali via cctalk wrote: The funny thing is that James and I were talking about doing some PCBs and kits for the things, then decided that it would appeal to too few people. I still have the prototype, done in wire-wrap. Chuck, It may be a good time to dust off the old design and bring it out! ;) Why? There are already a number of functional (and in most cases cheap) floppy emulators. It is unlikely even the boards could be made to match the price and in any case just how many of us do you really think are left? :-) I was looking at Chuck's pertec interface this morning, and I really like what he did. If he can pull of the same with the stm32f407 for floppies, I'm in. Boards with the stm32 are cheap, and actually available. And all in source, free compilers etc. (and MFM disks, ESDI disks, and, and ;-) ) I would like something for MFM disks but that tends to be much more expensive than a $20 GOTEK. I have a couple of Dave Gesswein's boards but haven't got around to building them yet. I doubt it could be done cheaper and I don't think The Blue Pill has the horsepower to do it. Dave uses the Beagle Bone. bill
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
There's also a German fellow who has done a read-only MFM USB controller using, of all things, an AVR with just enough memory to hold a single sector. Apparently interfaces with the Windows USB floppy driver (I think). Probably slower than tar in Siberia, however. And it doesn't write. He does his decoding on the fly. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: There is also the SMSC USB97CFDC2 floppy usb controller. Al has the datasheet archived on bitsavers: http://www.bitsavers.org/components/standardMicrosystems/_dataSheets/USB97CFDC2-01.pdf also, I found it here; https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/374/97cfdc2_01-198397.pdf What more could you ask for--legacy floppy interface, external flash programming... I'm a bit surprised that nobody's come up with a design using this creature. Of course, there's the possibility that they're unobtainium...
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On 1/20/23 14:31, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote: > On Fri, 20 Jan 2023, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: >> An alternative method is described here: >> >> https://blog.adafruit.com/2021/12/08/how-to-build-a-working-external-5-25-usb-floppy-drive-vintagecomputing-ibmpc/ > There is also the SMSC USB97CFDC2 floppy usb controller. Al has the datasheet archived on bitsavers: http://www.bitsavers.org/components/standardMicrosystems/_dataSheets/USB97CFDC2-01.pdf What more could you ask for--legacy floppy interface, external flash programming... I'm a bit surprised that nobody's come up with a design using this creature. Of course, there's the possibility that they're unobtainium... --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
Presumably, NEC's FIRST external USB drive used a general purpose USB floppy controller, but probably by the second one, they made it very specific to 1.4M Sorry. Thinking about it, It is probably NOT making the controller more specific to some formats; (although updated drivers probably do not support anything but 1.4M) Instead, it is probably that they made an integrated drive and controller, which unfortunately means that we can't just separate the two parts and substitute a 5.25" drive.
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: It's not cheap but it works, apparently. https://shop.deviceside.com/prod/FC5025 It's read-only but it handles, in theory, DS/DD 40 track, DS/DD 80 track, and DS/HD 80 track. It attaches to a PC floppy drive, so if a PC floppy controller can't read the format without hardware assistance, this won't either. So, there is a short (14 formats), but impressive, list of formats that it can image, Their file access is referred to as "Browse" and a VERY short (6 formats), but also impressive, list of formats that it can "browse" (copy files). The format list is as of March 2013 :-( IFF they were still actively supporting it, (not likely if they haven't added any formats in a decade) it would be trivial for them to add hundreds of other CP/M formats, Apple CP/M, Apple Pascal/P-system, etc.
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023, Liam Proven via cctalk wrote: An alternative method is described here: https://blog.adafruit.com/2021/12/08/how-to-build-a-working-external-5-25-usb-floppy-drive-vintagecomputing-ibmpc/ That is using an NEC UF0001 drive. Good luck finding one! But, the UF0002 is readily available. Anybody have any idea whether it would work? probably not. Presumably, NEC's FIRST external USB drive used a general purpose USB floppy controller, but probably by the second one, they made it very specific to 1.4M If it supports "mode 3", then it could probably be made to work for NEC's 8" format, and the NEC 1.2M 5.25" format.
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023 at 19:52, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: > > I’m now aware of the GreaseWeazle, but what I’ve not seen is if it allows > standard access to the data on a floppy, or only provides a way to image the > disk. With an USB attached 3.5” floppy the disk mounts on my Mac, and I can > easily pull files off the disk. Does this work with the GreaseWeazle and a > 5.25” floppy drive? Just FWIW, this was a FAQ and so someone has made a gizmo. It's not cheap but it works, apparently. https://shop.deviceside.com/prod/FC5025 It's read-only but it handles, in theory, DS/DD 40 track, DS/DD 80 track, and DS/HD 80 track. It attaches to a PC floppy drive, so if a PC floppy controller can't read the format without hardware assistance, this won't either. An alternative method is described here: https://blog.adafruit.com/2021/12/08/how-to-build-a-working-external-5-25-usb-floppy-drive-vintagecomputing-ibmpc/ -- Liam Proven ~ Profile: https://about.me/liamproven Email: lpro...@cix.co.uk ~ gMail/gTalk/FB: lpro...@gmail.com Twitter/LinkedIn: lproven ~ Skype: liamproven UK: (+44) 7939-087884 ~ Czech [+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal]: (+420) 702-829-053
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 2023-01-20 15:58, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote: On 1/20/23 15:45, Ali via cctalk wrote: The funny thing is that James and I were talking about doing some PCBs and kits for the things, then decided that it would appeal to too few people. I still have the prototype, done in wire-wrap. Chuck, It may be a good time to dust off the old design and bring it out! ;) Why? There are already a number of functional (and in most cases cheap) floppy emulators. It is unlikely even the boards could be made to match the price and in any case just how many of us do you really think are left? :-) I was looking at Chuck's pertec interface this morning, and I really like what he did. If he can pull of the same with the stm32f407 for floppies, I'm in. Boards with the stm32 are cheap, and actually available. And all in source, free compilers etc. (and MFM disks, ESDI disks, and, and ;-) )
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
Unfortunately I see that Xerox Memorywriter (630, 640, 645) is not on this list. :( Don Resor Sent from someone's iPhone > On Jan 19, 2023, at 7:18 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > http://www.xenosoft.com/fmts.html > is a list of the formats that I had managed to do on PC by Y2K. > > Note that that was reading, deciphering, and displaying a DIRectory, and then > copying selected FILES. Not a raw dump. > > File content, such as loading Wordstar files into WordPervert, is a > completely separate set of issues. > >
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 2023-01-20 15:25, Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 1/20/23 11:30, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: You were ahead of your time (and everyone else's). The funny thing is that James and I were talking about doing some PCBs and kits for the things, then decided that it would appeal to too few people. I still have the prototype, done in wire-wrap. Probably it would be worth it, to make a board like you did with the pertec interface?
[cctalk] scsi
How do you know if a termimation is suitable? Is connection all you have to
worry about? I have an HP Ultra 320 drive, a 320/m compliant adapter (id
jumpered to 2. Does a this need to be 0 for a single drive setup?), the cable
with an ultra 320m terminator (" LVD + SE ACT NEG + HVD ISO " printed on it).
Everything seems legit. I want to plug this into 2 different serverboards, an
Intel SCB2, dual PIII, dual ultra 160/lvd channels, and an IBM xseries
350/Netfinity 6000 (8682 serverboard), quad PIII xeon slot 2 cpu's, similar
scsi capability.
Whaddaya think?
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/20/23 15:45, Ali via cctalk wrote: The funny thing is that James and I were talking about doing some PCBs and kits for the things, then decided that it would appeal to too few people. I still have the prototype, done in wire-wrap. Chuck, It may be a good time to dust off the old design and bring it out! ;) Why? There are already a number of functional (and in most cases cheap) floppy emulators. It is unlikely even the boards could be made to match the price and in any case just how many of us do you really think are left? :-) bill
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
> The funny thing is that James and I were talking about doing some PCBs > and kits for the things, then decided that it would appeal to too few > people. I still have the prototype, done in wire-wrap. Chuck, It may be a good time to dust off the old design and bring it out! ;) -Ali
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/20/2023 2:33 PM, Chris via cctalk wrote: At least 1 person is interested in a Canon AS-100 boot disk. I know my day will come. Remember they came with an error or some weirdness from Canon. You couldn't use normal disks with it. They had to be supplied by Canon, whether 5 1/4" or 8". Likewise, Tandy Model 100 TPDD system disks are hard to make if you don't already have a working TPDD system disk and can just make a copy of it. Jim -- Jim Brain br...@jbrain.com www.jbrain.com
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On 1/20/2023 2:31 PM, Zane Healy wrote: Realistically that’s good enough Jim, though I find the way the 3.5” floppies are working to be quite useful. I can take a look at what’s on them, and in many cases, I just pull the files off. As there is no reason to image them. No doubt. Don't get me wrong, GW and KryoFlux and Catweazel(sp?) and others serve a great purpose. But, most media is not so important. I have some geneology disks a family member worked on in the 1980s that I need to archive. But, it does not rise to the need to flux image. I'll just pop them into a DOS PC and grab the data. If there are issues, we'll cross that bridge then. Jim -- Jim Brain br...@jbrain.com www.jbrain.com
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
At least 1 person is interested in a Canon AS-100 boot disk. I know my day will come. Remember they came with an error or some weirdness from Canon. You couldn't use normal disks with it. They had to be supplied by Canon, whether 5 1/4" or 8".
[cctalk] Re: [SPAM] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
> On Jan 20, 2023, at 11:19 AM, Jim Brain via cctalk > wrote: > > On 1/20/2023 1:05 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: >> Using the Greaseweazel is a two stage process. The GW itself connects to >> the actual drive and just records the flux transitions as a series of zeros >> and ones. This is transferred to a computer (PC, MAC, Linux) where the >> captured flux image is analyzed by a second program which understands floppy >> formats. You tell the analyzer what you are looking at. >> >> The analyzer can then provide a binary dump of the actual data (track by >> track) or for operating systems that it understands it can extract >> directories and files. >> >> On 1/20/2023 12:52 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: >>> I’m now aware of the GreaseWeazle, but what I’ve not seen is if it allows >>> standard access to the data on a floppy, or only provides a way to image >>> the disk. With an USB attached 3.5” floppy the disk mounts on my Mac, and >>> I can easily pull files off the disk. Does this work with the GreaseWeazle >>> and a 5.25” floppy drive? >>> >>> Zane >>> >>> >>> >> > Not to discount Mike's response, but to Zane's original question: At this > time, No, the GW only allows imaging. > > *BUT*, there is nothing preventing the firmware Keir wrote from being > extended to support accessing the actual floppy disk directly via the USB > interface (by emulating a regular USB floppy drive set of commands). > > In reality, most people just do with Mike is suggesting. Grab the image and > then mount it as a virtual floppy and read the files/dirs as needed. > > Jim > > -- > Jim Brain > br...@jbrain.com > www.jbrain.com My thanks to all that answered. I’ll probably pick up a GreaseWeazel at some point. Right now I’m trying to judge my need. I’ve only found a fraction of the 5.25” floppies I should have. For that matter, I’ve only found about 60% of the 3.5” floppies I should have. I’m mystified as to where three big boxes are, and those include the bulk of my 5.25” floppies. Realistically that’s good enough Jim, though I find the way the 3.5” floppies are working to be quite useful. I can take a look at what’s on them, and in many cases, I just pull the files off. As there is no reason to image them. Zane
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/20/23 11:30, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: > > You were ahead of your time (and everyone else's). The funny thing is that James and I were talking about doing some PCBs and kits for the things, then decided that it would appeal to too few people. I still have the prototype, done in wire-wrap. --Chuck
[cctalk] fs: 2x IBM PCjr mobos (NJ)
These were sold to me as new, but the a.s bags they're in don't look new. Got them from BGMicro. These wouldn't be easy to test. 50$ per plus shipping. Check or m.o. No exceptions.
[cctalk] fs: 2 x Atomic Pis
45$ per plus honest shipping. These are new, bought them from Zon 7/2019. Never did anything with them. I also have 2 power bricks, 1 new, 1 a little used (from an old Sony dvd burnwr). Free with purchase. Both supply 3 amps at least. I suppose I could test these. I'll leave that up to tje buyer.
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
So if it needs usb 2.0, that would rule out hosts prior to Pentium 3/4 iinm.
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 11:19 AM Chuck Guzis via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: > I should probably mention the floppy reader I built years ago using a > ATMega162 and 128K SRAM.It could also emulate floppies. > You were ahead of your time (and everyone else's). Sellam
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On 1/20/2023 1:05 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk wrote: Using the Greaseweazel is a two stage process. The GW itself connects to the actual drive and just records the flux transitions as a series of zeros and ones. This is transferred to a computer (PC, MAC, Linux) where the captured flux image is analyzed by a second program which understands floppy formats. You tell the analyzer what you are looking at. The analyzer can then provide a binary dump of the actual data (track by track) or for operating systems that it understands it can extract directories and files. On 1/20/2023 12:52 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: I’m now aware of the GreaseWeazle, but what I’ve not seen is if it allows standard access to the data on a floppy, or only provides a way to image the disk. With an USB attached 3.5” floppy the disk mounts on my Mac, and I can easily pull files off the disk. Does this work with the GreaseWeazle and a 5.25” floppy drive? Zane Not to discount Mike's response, but to Zane's original question: At this time, No, the GW only allows imaging. *BUT*, there is nothing preventing the firmware Keir wrote from being extended to support accessing the actual floppy disk directly via the USB interface (by emulating a regular USB floppy drive set of commands). In reality, most people just do with Mike is suggesting. Grab the image and then mount it as a virtual floppy and read the files/dirs as needed. Jim -- Jim Brain br...@jbrain.com www.jbrain.com
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/20/23 10:41, Chris via cctalk wrote: > So ... can the GW be physically installed on a machine that doesn't have usb > capability. But have the data stream analyzed (on the fly) by a different > computer via it's usb capability? No, the host system needs a USB connection--probably at least 2.0, but I haven't verified that. (I did build one and even added a stage of output buffering). My STM32F407 solution has proper buffers and termination between the drive and MCU, and records all data on an microSD drive, which can be uploaded or read directly. Comms is via USB or UART, depending on compilation option, so it can be used with a dumb terminal or a legacy S100 system capable of serial communication. The nice thing about the 407 is that it has a much higher clock rate, meaning finer sampling and 512KB of program flash along with 192KB of SRAM, so a whole track can be held in memory. I should probably mention the floppy reader I built years ago using a ATMega162 and 128K SRAM.It could also emulate floppies. For whatever it's worth. Chuck
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On 1/20/2023 3:53 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 19 Jan 2023, Fred Cisin wrote: I would recommend 5170 (AT), to also have the 500K bps data transfer rate of its FDC. I just had a good laugh ;-) Newer PCs often have unnecessary complications. Many no longer even support floppies! Since when does the Weazle need a floppy controller? It's an autonomous device. And you *do* need a modern PC since it is attached via USB. Christian You'll see below the response you quoted, the original responder meant to say ImageDisk, not GW. -- Jim Brain br...@jbrain.com www.jbrain.com
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
Using the Greaseweazel is a two stage process. The GW itself connects to the actual drive and just records the flux transitions as a series of zeros and ones. This is transferred to a computer (PC, MAC, Linux) where the captured flux image is analyzed by a second program which understands floppy formats. You tell the analyzer what you are looking at. The analyzer can then provide a binary dump of the actual data (track by track) or for operating systems that it understands it can extract directories and files. On 1/20/2023 12:52 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: I’m now aware of the GreaseWeazle, but what I’ve not seen is if it allows standard access to the data on a floppy, or only provides a way to image the disk. With an USB attached 3.5” floppy the disk mounts on my Mac, and I can easily pull files off the disk. Does this work with the GreaseWeazle and a 5.25” floppy drive? Zane
[cctalk] Re: USB Attached 5.25" drives?
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote: I’m now aware of the GreaseWeazle, but what I’ve not seen is if it allows standard access to the data on a floppy, or only provides a way to image the disk. With an USB attached 3.5” floppy the disk mounts on my Mac, and I can easily pull files off the disk. Does this work with the GreaseWeazle and a 5.25” floppy drive? The GW is simply the interface between the host and a floppy drive. It's up to the software that you're using as to what capability it has. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Fri, 20 Jan 2023, Chris via cctalk wrote: So ... can the GW be physically installed on a machine that doesn't have usb capability. But have the data stream analyzed (on the fly) by a different computer via it's usb capability? The GW isn't something that's "installed". It's an ARM-based, stand-alone device that connects to a floppy drive on one end and a USB-capable computer on the other. g. -- Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007 http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind. http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home. Some people collect things for a hobby. Geeks collect hobbies. ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes. http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!
[cctalk] USB Attached 5.25" drives?
I’m now aware of the GreaseWeazle, but what I’ve not seen is if it allows standard access to the data on a floppy, or only provides a way to image the disk. With an USB attached 3.5” floppy the disk mounts on my Mac, and I can easily pull files off the disk. Does this work with the GreaseWeazle and a 5.25” floppy drive? Zane
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
So ... can the GW be physically installed on a machine that doesn't have usb capability. But have the data stream analyzed (on the fly) by a different computer via it's usb capability?
[cctalk] Re: Disk pack production tools
I used to gouge out and replace those bulbs in the RK05. The original part was all in one piece, emitter and receiver, but later they made the emitter part easy to remove and I kept one re-lamped in my kit for a quick change. I still had a pack of them a year or two ago, but donated them to the National Museum of Computing at Bletchley Park in England. If Sean is on this list maybe he can read the part number off the package. cheers, Nigel Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept! Skype: TILBURY2591 On 2023-01-19 22:54, Marc Howard via cctalk wrote: Most white LEDs are really blue LEDs with a thin yellow phosphor coating (the eye sees yellow as red + green). I doubt they have much energy in the IR range. IR LED is probably the way to go. How hard is it to get to that bulb? Marc On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 4:02 PM Paul Koning via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On Jan 19, 2023, at 2:46 PM, David Gesswein via cctalk < cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote: On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 12:42:26PM -0600, Jon Elson wrote: On 1/17/23 21:18, Marc Howard via cctalk wrote: Does anyone know if that light bulb is still available? I’m not sure what the response of that photo sensor is and that might rule out using a led replacement. The fact that the bulb is almost certainty driven below the rated voltage also complicates matters. If you need JUST ONE badly enough, you can probably keep it going. Likely an LED could be used as a substitute. But, a roughly equivalent bulb with the wrong base could likely be found and hacked. Originally discussing RK05 head position sensor bulb. I have replaced it. The offical part to replace it isn't available. You can open it up and put in a new bulb. I wasn't able to quickly find what bulb I used a number of years ago but if someone really needs to know I can dig further. One of the small ones with wires. It doesn't use bulb with base. LED didn't work. I think sensor is IR. Hard to know what the sensor wants given that it isn't described in any DEC documents I could find. The schematics do mention that the light bulb runs on +5 volts, which suggests that indeed it might be below its rated voltage. If the sensors want IR you could try an IR LED. Or a white LED on the theory that it's a broadband light source... paul
[cctalk] Re: 2 sets of IRIX, 2 Indys and I1
Nothings for sale (at the moment at least). This phone ia gwtting wonky. And making it's own decisions. And I hadn't had breakfast when I started to post. Sorry. I have 2 IRIX sets. 15 disk 6.5.4 iinm. And a 3 diak 6.5.6. Have 2 Indys, 1 is busted up, the 1 I'll wind up keeping for an extended period probably. 1 Indy has an r5000 I think and a graphics card. The other is mediocre. Also have an R1000 Impact I2. Question is are these versions of Irix suitable. Or couldnI do better. And on account of SGIs licensing scheme, which attaches a specific os version to a maxhine (or vice versa), does that entitle me to obtain and install those specific versions. Put anotjer way if I obtained images from somewhere, installed the correct versions of Irix, would thoae machines then be legit? Or am I supposed to pay through the nose for a subscription or whatever? Take the I2s for instance. Is the hardware any more reliable, longevity wise, then your average good quality pc? On Friday, January 20, 2023, 10:53:41 AM EST, Jack Berry via cctalk wrote: Location? From: Chris via cctalk Sent: Friday, January 20, 2023 9:07 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: skogkatt...@yahoo.com Subject: [cctalk] 2 sets of IRIX, 2 Indys and I1
[cctalk] Re: 2 sets of IRIX, 2 Indys and I1
Location? From: Chris via cctalk Sent: Friday, January 20, 2023 9:07 AM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: skogkatt...@yahoo.com Subject: [cctalk] 2 sets of IRIX, 2 Indys and I1
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
As an aside, I don't know if it's true, but I was told at least in Pennsylvania the SP and FBI use the same computer system. Have exclusive access to the same databases maybe. Wbereas normal cops won't. There may be truth to it, as 1 Sunday night, when the police dept. shut down (!) I opted to call the state police about a problem I was having. I left my namw with someone or on a recording, can't remember. The next day 7 FBI goons were knocking on my door. They were looking for a fugitive who used "my" name, amongst others, as an alias. They wanted to just walk right in an browse around. Until I reminded them of my Constitutional rights. I had cooperated up until that point, lifted my shirt to show them I was unarmed, produced my DL. They flippin knew I wasn't who they were looking for. They even showed me his photo! But still wanted to be assholes. Don't ever trust law enforcement. You may live to regret it. They will sweet talk, smile you to death. Lie, lie, lie. And hope they have something on you. What they insinuated might be incriminating was a stack of very old computers they could see from the door. They didn't want to leave, until I threw a tiny tantrum. Then surveilled me in a dark green lincoln for a spell. Man was I pissed. And learned a few things that day.
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
> On Jan 19, 2023, at 9:47 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk > wrote: > > On Fri, 20 Jan 2023, Chris via cctalk wrote: > >> Now this ia going to sound naive, but could't every law firm and attorney >> general in the country be informed of the possibility of retrieving data >> from old disks? And their volatility? And what to and not to do with an old >> disk until it's put in the hands of someone that could retrieve data? >> >> Now what if the case is that you have a disk, but know absolutely nothing >> about it. Is there a swiss army knife, something like a GW that'll handle it? >> >> REMEMBER AND DO NOT FORGET. YOU VERY WELL MAY GET ONLY 1 SHOT AT RETRIEVING >> IT'S CONTENTS. >> >> There's alao optical methods used by the FBI. > > I tend to not be impressed by the technical prowess of the FBI. I haven't worked with them, but I remember getting into a discussion with a state police agency some years ago, who had acquired one of our SAN arrays as evidence in some case they were working. I was asked to help them. They wanted to know about the BIOS settings and whether the RAID was "left to right" or "right to left". They got very annoyed when I told them the product has no BIOS and isn't either left to right or right to left, but identifies the drives according to labels written on them at setup time. And in any case, since it's a virtual LUN device the RAID layout was the least of their problems. In the end they stopped asking questions; apparently the whole thing was much too difficult for them to grok. I suspect they never got any data off that system. I suspect there's more skill in other places, but what struck me most was the unwillingness to accept answers and teching from people who know what they are talking about. paul
[cctalk] Re: Disk pack production tools
> On Jan 20, 2023, at 4:27 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk > wrote: > > On Thu, 19 Jan 2023, David Gesswein wrote: >> Originally discussing RK05 head position sensor bulb. I have replaced it. The >> offical part to replace it isn't available. You can open it up and put in >> a new bulb. I wasn't able to quickly find what bulb I used a number of >> years ago but if someone really needs to know I can dig further. One of the >> small ones with wires. It doesn't use bulb with base. LED didn't work. I >> think sensor is IR. > > I have also replaced it many years ago. I bought a hand full of 5V micro > miniature light bulbs with wires. I think I bought them at Bürklin back then. > Anyways, they were a 1:1 match and the replacement works like a charm. I > guess that the filament orientation in the buld is important and that it > should be parallel to the graticule. From the looks of the setup (a Moiré system) you'd want reasonably uniform illumination. So parallel to the graticule would spread out the light a bit. paul
[cctalk] Re: 2 sets of IRIX, 2 Indys and I1
Missing details ? From: Chris via cctalk Sent: Friday, January 20, 2023 3:07 PM To: cctalk@classiccmp.org Cc: skogkatt...@yahoo.com Subject: [cctalk] 2 sets of IRIX, 2 Indys and I1
[cctalk] 2 sets of IRIX, 2 Indys and I1
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
> -Original Message- > From: Christian Corti via cctalk > Sent: 20 January 2023 09:34 > To: ClassicCmp > Cc: Christian Corti > Subject: [cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate > Maryland Man > > On Thu, 19 Jan 2023, r...@syssrc.com wrote: > [... blob of text ...] > > It had been written on a DEC PDP-11 minicomputer using the RSX-11 > > Operating System. Although the museum has a PDP-11 in its collection, > > it had not yet been restored and could not be started. Brendan > > Becker, > [...] > > Brendan set up a ?Greaseweazle,? a device that reads the magnetic flux > > transitions on the floppy disk without regard to operating systems, > > disk > [...] > > Isn't that a bit overcomplicated? I mean, they *are* standard IBM format > floppys that can be read with a normal PC floppy controller. > I really wonder why the museum did not know this. Maybe even PUTR could > have been used to copy off the files from the disks. They can, but once you hit a read error a PC goes into re-try mode and you run the risk of dirtying the heads and damaging the disk. With one of these tools you read the flux transitions of the disk, so a whole track and then sort the data out. This reduces the risk of damaging the disk and the drive. > > > Christian Dave
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
It seems at least the early versions need a fdc. Afaik my bare board is the first iteration. It also controls via usb (-c). I'm still figuring stuff out. Like "take 1 blue pill prior to initializing device". Or somethink like that. On Friday, January 20, 2023, 04:53:34 AM EST, Christian Corti via cctalk wrote: On Thu, 19 Jan 2023, Fred Cisin wrote: > I would recommend 5170 (AT), to also have the 500K bps data transfer rate of > its FDC. I just had a good laugh ;-) > Newer PCs often have unnecessary complications. Many no longer even support > floppies! Since when does the Weazle need a floppy controller? It's an autonomous device. And you *do* need a modern PC since it is attached via USB. Christian
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023, Fred Cisin wrote: I would recommend 5170 (AT), to also have the 500K bps data transfer rate of its FDC. I just had a good laugh ;-) Newer PCs often have unnecessary complications. Many no longer even support floppies! Since when does the Weazle need a floppy controller? It's an autonomous device. And you *do* need a modern PC since it is attached via USB. Christian
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023, Jim Brain wrote: GW can do the same, but can also handle GCR encoded disks, the Amiga disks noted above, and it might be able to do older Apple Mac 720K disks All these Weazle thingies are just pulse timing samplers plus floppy drive controllers. The interpretation of the timing information is separately done in software, with the hazzle of implementing some kind of software PLL. Been there, done that with my own Linux software written for a modified version of the MFM hard disk emulator running on my Beagle Bone White. The setup is even able to write such images back to disk (I have successfully used it to create Apple 2 GCR and Amiga MFM disks). Christian
[cctalk] Re: Computer Museum uses GreaseWeazle to help exonerate Maryland Man
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023, r...@syssrc.com wrote: [... blob of text ...] It had been written on a DEC PDP-11 minicomputer using the RSX-11 Operating System. Although the museum has a PDP-11 in its collection, it had not yet been restored and could not be started. Brendan Becker, [...] Brendan set up a ?Greaseweazle,? a device that reads the magnetic flux transitions on the floppy disk without regard to operating systems, disk [...] Isn't that a bit overcomplicated? I mean, they *are* standard IBM format floppys that can be read with a normal PC floppy controller. I really wonder why the museum did not know this. Maybe even PUTR could have been used to copy off the files from the disks. Christian
[cctalk] Re: Disk pack production tools
On Thu, 19 Jan 2023, David Gesswein wrote: Originally discussing RK05 head position sensor bulb. I have replaced it. The offical part to replace it isn't available. You can open it up and put in a new bulb. I wasn't able to quickly find what bulb I used a number of years ago but if someone really needs to know I can dig further. One of the small ones with wires. It doesn't use bulb with base. LED didn't work. I think sensor is IR. I have also replaced it many years ago. I bought a hand full of 5V micro miniature light bulbs with wires. I think I bought them at Bürklin back then. Anyways, they were a 1:1 match and the replacement works like a charm. I guess that the filament orientation in the buld is important and that it should be parallel to the graticule. Christian
