[cctalk] Re: Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago
No one is mentioning multiple processors on a single die and cache that is bigger than most systems of that times complete RAM. Clock speed was dealt with clever register reassignment, pipelining and prediction. Dwight
[cctalk] Re: Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago
On Sun, 9 Jun 2024, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: I agree that parallelism, or more accurately multiprocessing, has contributed a great deal to the advancement of 8086 technology. So to has speed: The first 8086 was clocked at 5Mhz.; now the speed is 6Ghz. The shrinkage of computer components in ULSIC technology has made this possible. But today I believe we're nearing an end to 8086 CISC technology because its science and technology will only take it so far. There are theoretical limits. But, like the limits imposed by frequency modulation on modem speeds, each time there's a limit, clever ideas attempt to circumvent that limit. Parallelism/multiprocessing can go a ways past the "theoretical limit" of processor speed, simply because total throughput is the actual goal, not processor speed. Under Moore's Law, it kept doubling. But, it was obvious that it could not keep doing so infinitely. Moore is gone, so there is no enforcement, and the doubling is approaching its end. :-) -- Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
[cctalk] Re: Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago
I agree that parallelism, or more accurately multiprocessing, has contributed a great deal to the advancement of 8086 technology. So to has speed: The first 8086 was clocked at 5Mhz.; now the speed is 6Ghz. The shrinkage of computer components in ULSIC technology has made this possible. But today I believe we're nearing an end to 8086 CISC technology because its science and technology will only take it so far. Murray. 🙂 On Sun, Jun 9, 2024 at 9:00 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote: > Highly parallel workloads are an important niche in computing. > > On Mon, 10 June 2024, 8:48 am Scott Baker via cctalk, < > cctalk@classiccmp.org> > wrote: > > > I think the biggest change is our compute resources stopped going faster > > in terms of raw cycles per second, and started going wider in terms of > > parallelism. It's now commonplace for me to run workloads that can > actually > > use many CPU cores, and I'm starting to occasionally run workloads that > are > > so parallel, that a GPU is a more suitable resource. At the same time as > > the surge in parallelism, there's also a focus on going greener. I think > > the last couple years have been particularly transformative. > > > > Scott > > > > > > >
[cctalk] Re: Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago
Highly parallel workloads are an important niche in computing. On Mon, 10 June 2024, 8:48 am Scott Baker via cctalk, wrote: > I think the biggest change is our compute resources stopped going faster > in terms of raw cycles per second, and started going wider in terms of > parallelism. It's now commonplace for me to run workloads that can actually > use many CPU cores, and I'm starting to occasionally run workloads that are > so parallel, that a GPU is a more suitable resource. At the same time as > the surge in parallelism, there's also a focus on going greener. I think > the last couple years have been particularly transformative. > > Scott > > >
[cctalk] Re: Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago
I think the biggest change is our compute resources stopped going faster in terms of raw cycles per second, and started going wider in terms of parallelism. It's now commonplace for me to run workloads that can actually use many CPU cores, and I'm starting to occasionally run workloads that are so parallel, that a GPU is a more suitable resource. At the same time as the surge in parallelism, there's also a focus on going greener. I think the last couple years have been particularly transformative. Scott On Sun, Jun 9, 2024 at 4:31 PM ben via cctalk wrote: > On 2024-06-09 11:01 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: > > On 6/9/24 08:40, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > >> Intel introduced to the world the x86 processor: the CISC technology > still > >> with us. So what has changed other than speed and upward development? > > > > The Internet? > > > > Really, it's always been my view that computational technical progress > > has long been driven by communication. Without communication, the > > microprocessor would largely be limited to commercial (e.g. CAD, > > finance, accounting) and a few niche applications. Many of those > > segments would be just fine with older technology. > > > > To put it in another context, what use would most people find with a PC > > that was limited to 300 bps modem communication? > > > > --Chuck > More reliable. Can you trust a CLOUD? > How soon will your data be corrupted, or behind a paywall? > > >
[cctalk] Re: Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago
On 2024-06-09 11:01 a.m., Chuck Guzis via cctalk wrote: On 6/9/24 08:40, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: Intel introduced to the world the x86 processor: the CISC technology still with us. So what has changed other than speed and upward development? The Internet? Really, it's always been my view that computational technical progress has long been driven by communication. Without communication, the microprocessor would largely be limited to commercial (e.g. CAD, finance, accounting) and a few niche applications. Many of those segments would be just fine with older technology. To put it in another context, what use would most people find with a PC that was limited to 300 bps modem communication? --Chuck More reliable. Can you trust a CLOUD? How soon will your data be corrupted, or behind a paywall?
[cctalk] Re: Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago
On 2024-06-09 10:59 a.m., Milo Velimirović via cctalk wrote: Word length. :) On Jun 9, 2024, at 10:40 AM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: Intel introduced to the world the x86 processor: the CISC technology still with us. So what has changed other than speed and upward development? Happy computing, Murray 🙂 The CPU Price it keeps going UP ... :( 8008 $25 1975 8080 $75 MITS kit 1975 8088 $125 386 $130 (286 $20)
[cctalk] Re: Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago
On 6/9/24 09:59, Milo Velimirović via cctalk wrote: > Word length. :) Scarcely innovative. 64 bit architectures predated the 64-bit x86 by decades. Call it a natural evolution. Don't forget cheap memory. --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago
On 6/9/24 08:40, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote: > Intel introduced to the world the x86 processor: the CISC technology still > with us. So what has changed other than speed and upward development? The Internet? Really, it's always been my view that computational technical progress has long been driven by communication. Without communication, the microprocessor would largely be limited to commercial (e.g. CAD, finance, accounting) and a few niche applications. Many of those segments would be just fine with older technology. To put it in another context, what use would most people find with a PC that was limited to 300 bps modem communication? --Chuck
[cctalk] Re: Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago
Word length. :) > On Jun 9, 2024, at 10:40 AM, Murray McCullough via cctalk > wrote: > > Intel introduced to the world the x86 processor: the CISC technology still > with us. So what has changed other than speed and upward development? > > Happy computing, > > Murray 🙂
[cctalk] Intel 8086 - 46 yrs. ago
Intel introduced to the world the x86 processor: the CISC technology still with us. So what has changed other than speed and upward development? Happy computing, Murray 🙂
[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)
On 6/8/24 20:52, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote: Is it Artronix or Artronics, out of Plainfield, New Jersey (according to the label, formally TechArt Systems 2000)? Because if the latter, I have one right here, though I can't tell you the model number because it is not displaying one. The serial number seems to indicate it was made in 1984. Artronix. They were manufacturing the computers in a business park in St. Louis county, MO. See : https://www.researchgate.net/figure/The-Artronix-PC-12-treatment-planning-computer-rho-theta-transducer-A-tapedeck-B_fig1_12217056 That has a pretty good picture of the console, tape drives and desk, as well as the Tek 611 storage tube and hardcopy unit. * When my collection was effectively stolen, the console was taken by the scrappers but I retained the CPU cabinet. I eventually sold the CPU to the private collector, and I more recently learned he was subsequently able to recover the console from the said scrappers and reunite the parts to make the system whole again. In any event, it was due some parts and much effort to be made working. Wow, that's quite a story! Jon
