[cctalk] Re: Experience using an Altair 8800 ("Personal computer" from 70s)

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I think if you can find that colleague of yours again and then say “who is 
laughing now?” 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
AI Consultant, PhD
+1 360-838-3675


> On May 23, 2024, at 16:05, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 5/23/24 12:53, Dave Dunfield via cctalk wrote:
> 
>> I've just passed on my "Mits Altair 8800" - this is a very historic system
>> from the 70s - it is:
>>  First Personal Computer (long before IBM PC)
>>  First S100 buss system
>>  First system Bill Gates wrote code for (long before Microsoft)
> 
> I don't think the "first" applies in this case.  The MCM/70 used an 8008
> and was complete computer with storage and display--something the MITS
> 8800 was not.
> 
> I spent the weekend soldering together my 8800 (CPU, SIO and 2x 4K DRAM)
> system, cursing the cheap white wire in the process.  Finally got it
> running with a TVT.
> 
> I couldn't wait to show it to a female working in my section.  She
> dropped by my apartment, took one look at the thing sitting on my
> kitchen table and burst out laughing.  "That's not a computer; it's a
> toy!" was her withering reaction.
> 
> I don't know if my male ego ever recovered from that.  And I *hated* the
> DRAM boards.
> 
> I do, however, still have the MITS box.  Haven't run it in nearly 40 years.
> 
> --Chuck
> 

[cctalk] Re: Thirties techies and computing history

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

But, Bill, maybe you did influence at least one student or more when you 
showed them the PDP or VAX. Perhaps we don't know who, but we have to keep 
believing that we are influencing someone somewhere. The fact that you are 73 
(Jon also said he is in his 70s) and your passion is rock solid is an excellent 
attestation that those who love computers are unique and will always do so. We 
don't need every techie to be involved, only the passionate ones. Josh is deep 
into classic computers in his thirties, as he said. Sellam joined the group in 
his twenties, thirty years ago.  Many of us are of different ages. I am in my 
fifty and touched the first computer key on a keyboard in 78. This group maybe 
one of the last mailing lists standing about classical computer. To be 
specific: I saw a lot of Discord channels on retro computers but they all lack 
true experienced folks who actually worked on such machines.   I guess the most 
important thing is for that special geek out there is to be aware of this 
distribution and make sure to keep it running 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
AI Consultant, PhD
+1 360-838-3675


> On May 19, 2024, at 09:31, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> On 5/19/2024 11:14 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote:
>> A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their 
>> thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google 
>> engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she 
>> was a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party 
>> host. I had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of 
>> computing, its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found 
>> disappointing and saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about 
>> computing history or even early computers. Except for their recall of the 
>> 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that 
>> they were familiar with. That made me wonder if this is a sign that our 
>> living version of classical personal computing, in which many of us here in 
>> this group witnessed the invention of personal computing in the 70s, will 
>> stop with our generation. I assume that the most engaging folks in this 
>> newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No offense to anyone. I am 
>> turning fifty myself)  I sense that no other generation following this user 
>> group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, PDPs, S100 buses, 
>> Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there hope, or is this 
>> the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal computers? 
>> Thoughts?
> 
> 
> I'm 73.  How do you think I feel.  I worked for 25 years in a Computer
> Science Department of a University and not only did they not teach any
> of the history.  They mostly didn't know it themselves anyway.  I kept
> PDP-11's and Vaxen in the department for the students to see and, if
> they wished, use but eventually I was told it was wasting space and
> when they moved the department to the new science building there was
> no space allocated for anything but the bare minimum of equipment.
> 
> bill

[cctalk] Re: Thirties techies and computing history

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Thank you, Josh. How did your passion start with classical computers? Maybe 
this helps in understanding the generation?

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit



> On May 19, 2024, at 08:39, Joshua Rice via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Younger folk are indeed more ignorant of where technology came from, but i 
> wouldn't say all of them are. I'm 32 years young and, well, i'm posting this 
> email on the mailing list, so that probably says enough.
> 
> Sure, the pool of those interested in old computer tech might be smaller 
> nowadays than it used to be, but then so is the pool of those interested in 
> Ford Model T's or gasoline powered Maytag washing machines, or steam traction 
> engines. But as long as stuff exists, there will be people interested in 
> tinkering with it. It's just that some tech is just not relevant any more, so 
> those exposed to it or used it in anger are going to be fewer and far between.
> 
> It's OK to be concerned, but i don't think the retro computing scene is as 
> dire as some might make it out to be.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Josh Rice
> 
>> On 19/05/2024 16:14, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote:
>> A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their 
>> thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google 
>> engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she 
>> was a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party 
>> host. I had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of 
>> computing, its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found 
>> disappointing and saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about 
>> computing history or even early computers. Except for their recall of the 
>> 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that 
>> they were familiar with. That made me wonder if this is a sign that our 
>> living version of classical personal computing, in which many of us here in 
>> this group witnessed the invention of personal computing in the 70s, will 
>> stop with our generation. I assume that the most engaging folks in this 
>> newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No offense to anyone. I am 
>> turning fifty myself)  I sense that no other generation following this user 
>> group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, PDPs, S100 buses, 
>> Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there hope, or is this 
>> the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal computers? 
>> Thoughts?
>> Regards,
>> Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Thirties techies and computing history

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

A friend of a friend had a birthday gathering. Everyone there was in their 
thirties, except for myself, my wife, and our friend. Anyway, I met a Google 
engineer, a Microsoft data scientist, an Amazon AWS recruiter (I think she was 
a recruiter), and a few others in tech who are friends with the party host. I 
had several conversations about computer origins, the early days of computing, 
its importance in what we have today, and so on. What I found disappointing and 
saddening at the same time is their utmost ignorance about computing history or 
even early computers. Except for their recall of the 3.5 floppy or early 2000’s 
Windows, there was absolutely nothing else that they were familiar with. That 
made me wonder if this is a sign that our living version of classical personal 
computing, in which many of us here in this group witnessed the invention of 
personal computing in the 70s, will stop with our generation. I assume that the 
most engaging folks in this newsgroup are in their fifties and beyond. (No 
offense to anyone. I am turning fifty myself)  I sense that no other generation 
following this user group's generation will ever talk about Altairs, CP/M s, 
PDPs, S100 buses, Pascal, or anything deemed exciting in computing. Is there 
hope, or is this the end of the line for the most exciting era of personal 
computers? Thoughts?

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Re: Random items on Pascal #3

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Anyone used Oh Pascal book while working on Turbo Pascal? I coded a memory 
viewer that was similar to Norton Utilities and PC Tools at the time for CP/M 
on Epson QX10 using Pascal. It was somewhere between 83 and 85

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
AI Consultant, PhD
+1 360-838-3675


> On May 9, 2024, at 13:38, Fred Cisin via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Turbo-Pascal was quite popular.  At the annnouncement of it (West Coast 
> Computer Faire), Phillipe Kahn (Borland) was so inundated with "yeah, but 
> what about C?" questions, that by the end of the first day, "Turbo C is 
> coming soon"

[cctalk] Re: PCs in home vs businesses (70s/80s)

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Hi. Meant complete software application systems, but, of course, it is 
eventually powered by language compilers 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
AI Consultant, PhD
+1 360-838-3675


> On Apr 27, 2024, at 10:39, Wayne S  wrote:
> 
> When you say “software drove hardware sales”  do you mean complete software 
> application systems or do you mean compilers available for the hardware so 
> the software teams had variety in what they could program?
> Up to the ‘90’s, companies had big, expensive hardware and little to no 
> canned software applications so companies also had relatively cheaper 
> software developers to make custom programs.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 27, 2024, at 10:23, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I came across this paragraph from the July 1981 Popular Science magazine 
>> edition in the article titled “Compute power - pro models at almost 
>> home-unit prices.”
>> 
>> “ ‘Personal-computer buffs may buy a machine, bring it home, and then spend 
>> the rest of their time looking for things it can do’, said …. ‘In business, 
>> it’s the other way around. Here you know the job, you have to find a machine 
>> that will do it. More precisely, you have to find software that will do the 
>> job. Finding a computer to use the software you’ve selected becomes 
>> secondary.”.
>> 
>> Do you guys* think that software drove hardware sales rather than the other 
>> way around for businesses in the early days? I recall that computer hardware 
>> salespeople would be knocking on businesses office doors rather than 
>> software salesmen.  Just seeking your opinion now that we are far ahead from 
>> 1981.
>> 
>> (*I do wish we have female gender engaged in the classic computing 
>> discussions threads as well. Maybe there is.)
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tarek Hoteit
>> AI Consultant, PhD
>> +1 360-838-3675
>> 

[cctalk] PCs in home vs businesses (70s/80s)

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I came across this paragraph from the July 1981 Popular Science magazine 
edition in the article titled “Compute power - pro models at almost home-unit 
prices.” 

“ ‘Personal-computer buffs may buy a machine, bring it home, and then spend the 
rest of their time looking for things it can do’, said …. ‘In business, it’s 
the other way around. Here you know the job, you have to find a machine that 
will do it. More precisely, you have to find software that will do the job. 
Finding a computer to use the software you’ve selected becomes secondary.”. 

Do you guys* think that software drove hardware sales rather than the other way 
around for businesses in the early days? I recall that computer hardware 
salespeople would be knocking on businesses office doors rather than software 
salesmen.  Just seeking your opinion now that we are far ahead from 1981. 

 (*I do wish we have female gender engaged in the classic computing discussions 
threads as well. Maybe there is.) 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
AI Consultant, PhD
+1 360-838-3675

[cctalk] Re: Altair 8800 50th birthday...

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I managed to find and buy a fair copy of the magazine on eBay for $150 two 
weeks ago. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit, PhD
Principal AI Consultant
https://tarek.computer

INFOCOM AI https://infocom.ai


> On Apr 27, 2024, at 07:42, wh.sudbrink--- via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
>  I'm sorry to hear that. Some of the best parts of my S100 collection came 
> to me by way of either "please take care of this for me" or "come get this or 
> it goes to the dump".  Remember the old "classic computer rescue list"?  I 
> suppose I've been fortunate that I have had storage space and a sympathetic 
> spouse. 
>On Saturday, April 27, 2024 at 10:14:35 AM EDT, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>  wrote:  
> 
> 
> 
>> On 4/27/2024 7:43 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:
>> Magazine cover january, and into 1975 the revolution.  So I'd say all
>> year.  Not one specific date
> 
> I had that magazine.  Wish I hadn't thrown it away oh so many
> years ago.
> 
> But even at that, nothing for me to celebrate.  I couldn't afford
> one then and I still can't afford one.  The same goes for the
> IMSAI-8080.  And the Heath H-8 falls into the same category.  :-(
> 
> bill
> 

[cctalk] PDP 8 / 11 via Raspberry Pi

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Mike, any tips or guidelines for running an emulated PDP on a Raspberry Pi ?

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit



> On Apr 21, 2024, at 08:08, Mike Katz via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Well my PDP-8 was built in 1974 and is still running (with careful 
> maintenance).  My PiDP-8/I has been up and running continuously with a 
> Raspberry PI 3B running it for about 5 years now.  My PiDP-11 has been up and 
> running with a PI-4B for more than 4 years continuously.
> 
> Though I agree with your comment that the PDP-8 was built to last (just 
> ignore the disintegrated foam used between the motherboard and the case or on 
> the case top) I have PCs that are more than 10 years old that are still 
> running.
> 
> As for the RP2040 being cheap crap, I beg to differ with you.  It is a solid 
> chip, produced in 10s of millions at least.  And, I would bet, a better 
> quality chip than your Z-80, if due only to improved IC manufacturing 
> technologies.
> 
> Just because it's old doesn't make it good.  I worked on a 32KHz 4 Bit CPU 
> (about 20 years ago) where the development hardware was very unstable and the 
> tool chain not a whole lot better.
> 
> Early Microsoft and Lattice C compilers for the PC were buggy as hell.  If 
> you want I can list a few bugs from each of them in another thread.
> 
> One of the biggest features of the Z-80, the extra register set, was rarely 
> used in open source software in order to maintain compatibility with the 8080.
> 
> Some of the early Z-80 CP/M tools did not work because they were derived from 
> 8080 tools.  After time the tools got better.  That is the case with any 
> piece of software.  If it doesn't become obsolete and if maintained it will 
> get better over time.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 4/21/2024 1:09 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:
>>> On 2024-04-20 8:33 p.m., Mike Katz via cctalk wrote:
>>> For anything more sophisticated than your coffee pot the RP2040 from 
>>> Raspberry Pie is a fantastic little chip, dual core 133 MHz Cortex M0+ with 
>>> 8 PIO engines, 264K of RAM, ADC, UART, SPI, I2C all for under a dollar.  I 
>>> designed a fully functional RP2040 with 16 Mb flash for under $2.00.  In 
>>> large enough quantities that's encroaching on 8 bit PIC territory at over 
>>> 1000 times the memory and CPU power.
>> 
>> I am wishing for a Quality Product, cheap crap is not always better.
>> USB comes to mind.
>> 256Kb ram is only 32K 64 bit words. Cache memory never works.
>> My $5 internet toaster, just exploded after 3 days.
>> So what? Just buy the new model that works with windows 12.
>> Download a buggy new tool chain. The Z80 tools worked.
>> 
>> 
>> The PDP8 was built to last. 50+ years and going strong.
>> NOT the crappy PI PDP-8 or PDP-10. I give it 2 years max.
>> Now a PI style computer with compact FLASH x 2, NO USB
>> and 2 MEG ram , real serial and printer ports that will work
>> in a noisy industrial setting, would be quite usefull.
>> I'd pay even $3 for it. :)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: Odd IBM mass storage systems

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Plato experience is still active  including the games at https://www.cyber1.org/

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
AI Consultant, PhD
+1 360-838-3675
https://tarek.computer

INFOCOM AI LLC - https://infocom.ai


> On Apr 13, 2024, at 10:20, Paul Koning via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 12, 2024, at 9:49 PM, ben via cctalk  wrote:
>> 
>> On 2024-04-12 7:23 p.m., Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
> On Apr 12, 2024, at 5:54 PM, CAREY SCHUG via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> ...
> my favorite terminal 3190 that was neon gas, so monochrome, but could 
> take 5 addresses, and flip between 62 lines of 160 characters (always 
> there), to 4 terminals of 62x80 any two visible at a time, or 4 terminals 
> of 31x160 characters, any 2 visible at a time, or 4 terminals of 31x80 
> all visible at once.  when given a choice, my new boss was surprised that 
> I chose that instead of the color 3279 with graphics that everybody else 
> wanted.  Great for running virtual systems...
>>> Sounds like the plasma panel displays that were invented for the PLATO 
>>> system, by Don Bitzer and a few others, at the U of Illinois.  Inherent 
>>> memory: if you lit a pixel it would stay lit, to turn it off you'd feed it 
>>> a pulse of the opposite polarity.  So it was a great way to do 512x512 
>>> bitmap graphics with very modest complexity, no refresh memory needed.
>>>paul
>> 
>> But too slow I suspect to run a game like spacewar.
> 
> PLATO was the system where a whole lot of early games first appeared, 
> especially multi-player games.  Among them were any number of variations of 
> "Star Trek" inspired ones.  While you couldn't refresh a screen full of space 
> ships in motion as fast as you can on a dedicated graphics engine, it was 
> certainly acceptable for the players.  And a simpler two-ship game like the 
> original spacewar would work even better, because you'd only need a couple of 
> operations per refresh -- on the classic terminal, 12 output words at 60 per 
> second, so 200 ms per refresh.  Not quite "full motion" but close.
> 
>paul
> 

[cctalk] Re: Borland Turbo C++ and Turbo Basic - Books and Manuals

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I double that. Turbo Basic and TASM manuals should be saved, especially the 
Turbo BASIC one. 
If Zane doesn’t want it, I would pay for shipping Turbo BASIC to 98671 zip code 
in the US.

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit


> On Apr 6, 2024, at 08:13, Zane Healy via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> I suspect that at least the Turbo BASIC and TASM manuals should be saved.  
> The only Turbo BASIC that I ever saw in the 80’s is the copy that I bought.
> 
> I’m not sure how useful the OpenVMS book is, but it is also somewhat 
> uncommon.  I recently got a copy with some other books that I bought.
> 
> Zane
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 6, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Mike Norris via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Before I consign the following books to be recycled I thought I would ask if 
>> they are any use to anyone.
>> I do not want anything for them except postage, but they are heavy so might 
>> be expensive to post from the UK.
>> (These are the manuals only no software)
>> 
>> Manuals
>> Borland C++ V4 for Windows - Programmers Guide, User Guide, Library Ref, 
>> Debugger, DOS Ref, Library Ref
>> Borland C++V2 Object Windows - Reference Guide, Programmers Guide
>> Turbo C++ V3 Object Windows - User Guide, Reference Guide
>> Turbo C++ V3 User Guide
>> Turbo C++ - Library Ref, Getting Started, Programmers Guide, User Guide
>> Resource Workshop
>> Turbo Assembler V2 (5 books in set)
>> Turbo Basic
>> 
>> Books
>> The Waite Group Turbo C Bible
>> Developing C++ Software
>> 
>> Additional
>> I would like £5 beer money for this one please!
>> Writing Open VMS Alpha Device Drivers in C - Margie Sherlock/Leonard 
>> Szubowicz
>> 
>> 
>> Regards Mike Norris
> 

[cctalk] Re: Borland Turbo C++ and Turbo Basic - Books and Manuals

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I double that. Turbo Basic and TASM manuals should be saved, especially the 
Turbo BASIC one. 
If Zane doesn’t want it, I would pay for shipping Turbo BASIC to 98671 zip code 
in the US. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
AI Consultant, PhD
+1 360-838-3675
https://tarek.computer

INFOCOM AI LLC - https://infocom.ai


> On Apr 6, 2024, at 08:13, Zane Healy via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> I suspect that at least the Turbo BASIC and TASM manuals should be saved.  
> The only Turbo BASIC that I ever saw in the 80’s is the copy that I bought.
> 
> I’m not sure how useful the OpenVMS book is, but it is also somewhat 
> uncommon.  I recently got a copy with some other books that I bought.
> 
> Zane
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 6, 2024, at 3:11 AM, Mike Norris via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> Before I consign the following books to be recycled I thought I would ask if 
>> they are any use to anyone.
>> I do not want anything for them except postage, but they are heavy so might 
>> be expensive to post from the UK.
>> (These are the manuals only no software)
>> 
>> Manuals
>> Borland C++ V4 for Windows - Programmers Guide, User Guide, Library Ref, 
>> Debugger, DOS Ref, Library Ref
>> Borland C++V2 Object Windows - Reference Guide, Programmers Guide
>> Turbo C++ V3 Object Windows - User Guide, Reference Guide
>> Turbo C++ V3 User Guide
>> Turbo C++ - Library Ref, Getting Started, Programmers Guide, User Guide
>> Resource Workshop
>> Turbo Assembler V2 (5 books in set)
>> Turbo Basic
>> 
>> Books
>> The Waite Group Turbo C Bible
>> Developing C++ Software
>> 
>> Additional
>> I would like £5 beer money for this one please!
>> Writing Open VMS Alpha Device Drivers in C - Margie Sherlock/Leonard 
>> Szubowicz
>> 
>> 
>> Regards Mike Norris
> 

[cctalk] Re: Vintage Computer Fest Midwest "DECnut" pizza party

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

TRUE! Only the vintage folks (us) would appreciate what or how we think

Earlier today Paul Koning sent a post under a seperate thread  “….,  (movb 
#1,r0) fetches the instruction and increments PC by 2, thfetches the word where 
the PC points and increments by 2, not 1 again.” And then sent a correction 
"R7)+, actually; @(R7)+ is absolute.  …”. I swear when I read it, I thought how 
my  20yr old  kids or even my lifelong wife would react if  I echoed back the 
same words to them……… 


- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Tarek Hoteit
ta...@infocom.ai
+1 360-838-3675

https://infocom.ai



> On Sep 7, 2023, at 5:25 PM, Mike Katz  wrote:
> 
> Whom ever said youth is wasted on the young was telling a very serious truth.
> 
> On 9/7/2023 7:12 PM, Tarek Hoteit wrote:
>> Safe recovery! Yes, the physical human OLD sucks (not the geeky-part <- 
>> guess that keeps us more functioning)  
>> 
>> - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>> Tarek Hoteit
>> ta...@infocom.ai 
>> +1 360-838-3675
>> 
>> https://infocom.ai 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 7, 2023, at 5:07 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk  
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> My sympathies to both of you and wishes for a good and complete recovery.
>>> 
>>> 2 years ago I had a heart attack in my dojo.   8 stents and a pacemaker 
>>> later I was back on the mat in 3 weeks.  It was 6 months before I was able 
>>> to go full speed.
>>> 
>>> Getting old sucks!!!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 9/7/2023 6:58 PM, KenUnix via cctalk wrote:
 Jon,
 
 Yea. It affected my left side. Loss of muscle strength. I am left handed
 and lost my strength but luckily can still type albeit slower.
 
 Good thing the keyboard has a backspace key.
 
 Fortunately I still get ideas but it sometimes takes awhile to write them
 down.
 
 -Ken
 
 On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 7:32 PM Jon Elson via cctalk 
  
 wrote:
 
> On 9/7/23 17:18, KenUnix via cctalk wrote:
>> Hi guys.
>> 
>> Since I can't get out due to my stroke, be sure to post plenty of snaps
> of
>> the event...
>> 
> Sorry to hear about that.  I had a very mild stroke 2 years
> ago, but it has affected dexterity in my right hand.  My
> writing is now horrible (my penmanship was never really
> great) and typing is more error prone than before.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
>>> 
>> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: Vintage Computer Fest Midwest "DECnut" pizza party

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Safe recovery! Yes, the physical human OLD sucks (not the geeky-part <- guess 
that keeps us more functioning)  

- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Tarek Hoteit
ta...@infocom.ai
+1 360-838-3675

https://infocom.ai



> On Sep 7, 2023, at 5:07 PM, Mike Katz via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> My sympathies to both of you and wishes for a good and complete recovery.
> 
> 2 years ago I had a heart attack in my dojo.   8 stents and a pacemaker later 
> I was back on the mat in 3 weeks.  It was 6 months before I was able to go 
> full speed.
> 
> Getting old sucks!!!
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/7/2023 6:58 PM, KenUnix via cctalk wrote:
>> Jon,
>> 
>> Yea. It affected my left side. Loss of muscle strength. I am left handed
>> and lost my strength but luckily can still type albeit slower.
>> 
>> Good thing the keyboard has a backspace key.
>> 
>> Fortunately I still get ideas but it sometimes takes awhile to write them
>> down.
>> 
>> -Ken
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 7, 2023 at 7:32 PM Jon Elson via cctalk 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 9/7/23 17:18, KenUnix via cctalk wrote:
 Hi guys.
 
 Since I can't get out due to my stroke, be sure to post plenty of snaps
>>> of
 the event...
 
>>> Sorry to hear about that.  I had a very mild stroke 2 years
>>> ago, but it has affected dexterity in my right hand.  My
>>> writing is now horrible (my penmanship was never really
>>> great) and typing is more error prone than before.
>>> 
>>> Jon
>>> 
>>> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: SDF Interim Computer Festival

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I believe it is an early experiment unlike the well established VCFs. 
 
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Tarek Hoteit
ta...@infocom.ai
+1 360-838-3675

https://infocom.ai



> On Sep 2, 2023, at 8:58 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Why "Interim"?
> 
> Sellam
> 
> On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 7:25 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
>> FYI, SDF retro computing and home brew exhibition is scheduled for
>> September 30 to October 1 in Seattle WA . Link to the exhibit is at
>> https://sdf.org/icf/ and https://icm.museum/
>> 
>> 
>> - - - -
>> Tarek Hoteit
>> ta...@infocom.ai
>> +1 360-838-3675
>> 
>> https://infocom.ai
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 

[cctalk] SDF Interim Computer Festival

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

FYI, SDF retro computing and home brew exhibition is scheduled for September 30 
to October 1 in Seattle WA . Link to the exhibit is at https://sdf.org/icf/ and 
https://icm.museum/

  
- - - - 
Tarek Hoteit
ta...@infocom.ai
+1 360-838-3675

https://infocom.ai

[cctalk] Re: Altair 8800 question

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Not to complicate the haunt for the first Altair, but there is no guarantee 
that it ever existed. Maybe it was an urban legend that it was shipped. If it 
did, did it work? Might just buy the remaining issue of Popular Electronics 
featuring the fake Altair. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On May 9, 2023, at 6:43 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, May 9, 2023 at 4:01 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>> Both UPS and Fedex will sometimes falsely claim that they had made a
>> delivery attempt.
> 
> 
> I've experienced this.
> 
> 
>>  Does REA claim to have delivered the Altair?
>> 
> 
> I don't know that anyone can ever know at this point.
> 
> I'm thinking to put out a small bounty for any verifiable information
> leading to knowledge of the fate of the shipment, and a larger bounty
> leading to the prototype itself.  Anonimity guaranteed, no questions asked.
> 
> Sellam

[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Did you ever choose the mystery meal?

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On May 7, 2023, at 9:50 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 5/7/23 08:35, KenUnix via cctalk wrote:
>> Chuck,
>> 
>> Did you at least get a bag peanuts on the flight?
>> 
> 
> It was always a dinner flight, so I had my choice of chicken or mystery
> meat (the flight attendants called it that).   If I was able to make
> reservations, I usually specified the kosher meal--better than warmed
> over TV dinners.
> 
> --Chuck
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: The World Wide Web

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I am with Murray on this one. Maybe because of the WWW and not via Gopher nor 
BBS led some of us to discover cctalk. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On May 3, 2023, at 5:09 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 5/3/2023 7:58 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk wrote:
>> 30 years ago the World Wide Web came into public existence. It has enabled
>> cctalk to flourish.
>> 
> 
> What did the World Wide Web have to do with mailing lists flourishing?  We 
> had text based
> 
> discussions long before that in the form of Usenet and Mailing lists.
> 
> 
> bill
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: websites as subdomains under classiccmp.org

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Interesting.
So what comes up using The Doctor's URL are:

- CPM Archives http://cpmarchives.classiccmp.org
- Altair 32 http://altair32.classiccmp.org
- url with broken links http://joe.classiccmp.org
- Joe's Computer Mania  http://joe.classiccmp.org/joespage.htm 
- some 6800 material http://sjsclassicdocs.classiccmp.org
- Transputer page http://transputer.classiccmp.org
- Rich's classic computing pages http://cini.classiccmp.org
- Daves Old Computers http://dunfield.classiccmp.org

The CP/M one is awesome!

On Tue, Apr 25, 2023 at 04:13:01PM +, The Doctor via cctalk wrote:
> 
> --- Original Message ---
> On Monday, April 24th, 2023 at 22:48, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> > I learned today about Dave’s Old Computer website 
> > http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/ which is
> > listed as a subdomain under classiccmp.org. I wasn’t aware of subdomain 
> > sites. Can any one
> > list any other ones or is a list of sites available ?
> 
> From a quick search:
> 
> https://online.seranking.com/research.competitor.html/organic/subdomains?input=classiccmp.org=base_domain
> 
> The Doctor [412/724/301/703/415/510]
> WWW: https://drwho.virtadpt.net/
> Don't be mean. You don't have to be mean.
> 

-- 
Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

p.s. #2. Don’t use Windows either. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Apr 25, 2023, at 8:21 AM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 4/25/23 06:54, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote:
>> Wasn’t his sister busy buying or selling a sports team and showed no 
>> interests in the museum? Same for Gates. Busy explaining how ChatGPT is the 
>> best thing ever while all the money spent for “saving the world” seems to 
>> have led to nothing. 
>> 
> Well, there's the Gates Archive--a real 501(c)3 organization dedicated
> to preserving BillG's history.
> Based on my contacts with them, they appear to be very top-heavy,
> bean-counterish.  I gave up trying to do business with them after yet
> another layer of paperwork was required.
> 
> --Chuck
> 
> P.S. I don't use Windows.
> 

[cctalk] Re: One of Paul Allen's Museums

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Wasn’t his sister busy buying or selling a sports team and showed no interests 
in the museum? Same for Gates. Busy explaining how ChatGPT is the best thing 
ever while all the money spent for “saving the world” seems to have led to 
nothing. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Apr 25, 2023, at 6:50 AM, Paul Koning via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Apr 25, 2023, at 9:43 AM, geneb via cctalk  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, 25 Apr 2023, Tom Hunter via cctalk wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hopefully the LCM will be sold as a going concern rather than just a
>>> firesale of the assets.
>> AFAIK, it's a 503(c), and I suspect if they started to "fire sale" assets, 
>> lawsuits from folks that made significant donations would be inbound.
> 
> Maybe, but what grounds would there be for a suit?  If you donate to the 
> museum, the thing becomes their property, to dispose of as they see fit.  
> That is, unless you have a contract that says otherwise -- and even so, you'd 
> have to hope that a court would enforce a contract.  There is ample precedent 
> of courts disregarding the plain English text of contracts or trusts to 
> permit museums to do things prohibited by the terms of agreements with 
> donors.  A recent one (name forgotten) in Pennsylvania comes to mind.
> 
>paul
> 
> 

[cctalk] websites as subdomains under classiccmp.org

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I learned today about Dave’s Old Computer website  
http://dunfield.classiccmp.org/ which is listed as a subdomain under 
classiccmp.org.  I wasn’t aware of subdomain sites. Can any one list any other 
ones or is a list of sites available ? 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Also found this GitHub page that simplifies reading magazines off archive.org 
https://gitgalu.github.io/LoboReader/
when using your phone 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Apr 24, 2023, at 4:47 PM, KenUnix via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Guys,
> 
> I came across this site that has Linux magazines downloadable for free in
> PDF:
> 
> http://pclosmag.com/index.html
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 2:06 PM KenUnix  wrote:
>> 
>> Richard,
>> 
>> Try here:  https://linuxnewmedia.square.site/shop/linux-magazine/2
>> 
>> Ken
>> 
>> On Mon, Apr 24, 2023 at 1:38 PM Richard via cctalk 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> In article <333df660-9b28-e5ce-5ff1-f1295a9fa...@sydex.com>,
>>>"Chuck Guzis via cctalk"  writes:
>>> 
 My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN.   Sadly, it
 and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees.
>>> 
>>> I used to love reading EE Times when it was a weekly tabloid style
>>> print edition.  Ever since they moved to a web site only format, it's
>>> been a serious downgrade of the experience.  Even with accounting for
>>> the format change, it's now virtually imposible to find "what's new"
>>> since the last time I was there.  The organization of the articles on
>>> the web site is vastly inferior to the organization of the articles in
>>> the print edition.  The sad part is that there's no reason for the
>>> degraded experience just because they moved to a digital edition.
>>> --
>>> "The Direct3D Graphics Pipeline" free book <
>>> http://tinyurl.com/d3d-pipeline>
>>>The Terminals Wiki 
>>> The Computer Graphics Museum 
>>>  Legalize Adulthood! (my blog) 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> End of line
>> JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> End of line
> JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey

[cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Great. That works. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
https://ne.thote.it/@tarek

> On Apr 23, 2023, at 4:22 PM, KenUnix via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Tarek,
> 
> Try here:  https://linuxnewmedia.square.site/shop/linux-magazine/2
> 
> Ken
> 
>> On Sun, Apr 23, 2023 at 7:07 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Seems Linux-magazine.com print order option is down. I get 404 not found
>> error when I click on order print issue.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tarek Hoteit
>> https://ne.thote.it/@tarek
>> 
>>> On Apr 23, 2023, at 5:55 AM, KenUnix via cctalk 
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Linux Journal is now Linux Magazine and is *available in print* at:
>>> 
>>> https://www.linux-magazine.com/
>>> 
>>> and special editions at:
>>> https://www.linux-magazine.com/Resources/Special-Editions
>>> 
>>> Ken
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 1:14 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
>>>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN.   Sadly, it
>>>> and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees.
>>>> 
>>>> --Chuck
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> End of line
>>> JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> End of line
> JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey

[cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Seems Linux-magazine.com print order option is down. I get 404 not found error 
when I click on order print issue. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
https://ne.thote.it/@tarek

> On Apr 23, 2023, at 5:55 AM, KenUnix via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> Linux Journal is now Linux Magazine and is *available in print* at:
> 
> https://www.linux-magazine.com/
> 
> and special editions at:
> https://www.linux-magazine.com/Resources/Special-Editions
> 
> Ken
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Apr 22, 2023 at 1:14 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> My "answering the call of nature" standard reading was EDN.   Sadly, it
>> and Electronic Design are no longer published on dead trees.
>> 
>> --Chuck
>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> End of line
> JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey

[cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Funny you mentioned Brave New World. Just two hours ago I bought the book at 
Target. What a coincidence 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Apr 21, 2023, at 9:53 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 4/21/23 21:08, Doug Jackson via cctalk wrote:
>> That's the crux of it.
>> 
>> Without advertisers magazines are too expensive.   As advertisers needs
>> change they move to diferent media.
>> 
>> It's frustrating.  But part of the world in which we live.
>> 
> 
> Add to that, newspapers in print, broadcast TV and radio.
> 
> Brave New World.
> 
> --Chuck
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: Magazine no longer in print

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Such progress should never stop. I keep buying old magazines (creative 
computing, compute!, Byte, Omni, and more) via eBay and randomly pick one to 
read each day. It is  always a great feeling to read the actual magazines as if 
it were the eighties (or late seventies) 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Apr 21, 2023, at 6:59 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> I read today that “Maximum PC” is no longer in print just in digital. Past
> issues are available in digitized format but it’s not the same as reading a
> magazine while in bed! Our hobby is changing. Well, progress must not be
> stopped…
> 
> 
> 
> Happy computing.
> 
> 
> 
> Murray  

[cctalk] Re: Sgi tezero for sale

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Hello Mark. Curious about your online collection. Can you share a link 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Apr 8, 2023, at 4:29 AM, Mark Brennan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Devin,
> Do you happen to have any brochures/catalogs/Sgi Magazines newsletter by
> any chance, I would love to add them to our online collection.
> Regards
> Mark
> 
> 
>> On Sat, Apr 8, 2023 at 8:12 AM Geoff Reed via cctalk 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Quoting devin davison via cctalk :
>> 
>>> I have a sgi tezro for sale. My last sgi machine, i used to have
>>> crimson
>>> and onyx2 desksides.
>>> 
>>> The front plastic is a little torn. It has a dallas battery problem. I
>>> recall getting it to boot by manually typing in the boot info, but it
>>> may
>>> require soldering to fix the battery.
>>> 
>>> Open to offers. My last sgi machine, i think it's time for me to let it
>>> go.
>>> As I clean up more, I might be able to find the console cable and see if
>>> it
>>> still boots, but I'm unsure what its operating condition is as it sits.
>>> 
>>> Located in FL.
>>> 
>>> --Devin D.
>> 
>> dangnabbit, why the cool stuff i've lusted after all across the country
>> 

[cctalk] Re: TREK7 is back! - TREK7 FORTRAN Multi-User Game (PDP-10/VAX) Revived

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

These are a great set of links. Huge Adventure fan. Thank you so much

On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 11:10:18PM -0500, Eric Moore via cctalk wrote:
> I received this in a direct reply from a list member:
>
> There are several FORTRAN implementations of the original Adventure game
> drifting around.
>
> The original can be found at:
>
> https://jerz.setonhill.edu/intfic/colossal-cave-adventure-source-code/
>
> The Multics port at:
>
> https://gitlab.com/dps8m/Multics_Software/multics_dungn32b
>
> A bunch of others:
>
> https://rickadams.org/adventure/e_downloads.html
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 11:06 PM Tarek Hoteit  wrote:
>
> > Hello Eric. Can you please share the link to the Fortran 4 copy of
> > Adventure?
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 08:59:48PM -0500, Eric Moore via cctalk wrote:
> > > Awesome! Thank you! I also received a link to a fortran 4 copy of
> > > adventure. Now to spend months or years trying to punch, read, compile,
> > and
> > > run it 
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 8:49 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am pretty sure I have a FORTRAN IV version of it running on CDC
> > CYBER and
> > > > 6000 series mainframes. I will dig it up next time I fire up the
> > emulator.
> > > > Tom
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 31 Mar 2023, 8:59 pm Eric Moore via cctalk, <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org
> > > > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Congrats! I am looking for star trek for fortran 4 if anyone knows
> > where
> > > > it
> > > > > is.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > >
> > > > > -Eric
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 7:52 AM Hans-Ulrich Hölscher via cctalk <
> > > > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The Star Trek simulation game TREK7 was written in FORTRAN by
> > Donald M.
> > > > > > Ecclestone in the early 70ties for the PDP-10.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The game was ported to VAX computers running VMS in 1978 by the
> > author
> > > > > with
> > > > > > the help of Dan Gahlinger.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For some years TREK7 fell into a deep slumber until in 1993 Dan
> > > > Gahlinger
> > > > > > decided to revive it, but some severe bugs remained, hindering any
> > > > > > successful round of game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Last year I began to work on the problems still present in TREK7.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After detecting and fixing more than 60 bugs (mostly caused by
> > > > > > transcription errors) step by step, the game is playable again now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Dan Gahlinger backed out of the project and I am the maintainer of
> > > > TREK7
> > > > > > now.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For details see: https://gunkies.org/wiki/TREK7
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Former TREK7 players please give me a shout!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ulli
> > > > > > The VAXorcist
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Tarek Hoteit
> >

--
Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Re: TREK7 is back! - TREK7 FORTRAN Multi-User Game (PDP-10/VAX) Revived

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Hello Eric. Can you please share the link to the Fortran 4 copy of Adventure?

On Fri, Mar 31, 2023 at 08:59:48PM -0500, Eric Moore via cctalk wrote:
> Awesome! Thank you! I also received a link to a fortran 4 copy of
> adventure. Now to spend months or years trying to punch, read, compile, and
> run it 
>
> On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 8:49 PM Tom Hunter via cctalk 
> wrote:
>
> > I am pretty sure I have a FORTRAN IV version of it running on CDC CYBER and
> > 6000 series mainframes. I will dig it up next time I fire up the emulator.
> > Tom
> >
> > On Fri, 31 Mar 2023, 8:59 pm Eric Moore via cctalk,  > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Congrats! I am looking for star trek for fortran 4 if anyone knows where
> > it
> > > is.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > -Eric
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 7:52 AM Hans-Ulrich Hölscher via cctalk <
> > > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The Star Trek simulation game TREK7 was written in FORTRAN by Donald M.
> > > > Ecclestone in the early 70ties for the PDP-10.
> > > >
> > > > The game was ported to VAX computers running VMS in 1978 by the author
> > > with
> > > > the help of Dan Gahlinger.
> > > >
> > > > For some years TREK7 fell into a deep slumber until in 1993 Dan
> > Gahlinger
> > > > decided to revive it, but some severe bugs remained, hindering any
> > > > successful round of game.
> > > >
> > > > Last year I began to work on the problems still present in TREK7.
> > > >
> > > > After detecting and fixing more than 60 bugs (mostly caused by
> > > > transcription errors) step by step, the game is playable again now.
> > > >
> > > > Dan Gahlinger backed out of the project and I am the maintainer of
> > TREK7
> > > > now.
> > > >
> > > > For details see: https://gunkies.org/wiki/TREK7
> > > >
> > > > Former TREK7 players please give me a shout!
> > > >
> > > > Ulli
> > > > The VAXorcist
> > > >
> > >
> >

--
Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Re: Sun/Tronic House

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Awesome. Thank you so much. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 28, 2023, at 4:31 PM, Smith, Wayne via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I did some research as to where Dean and Molly (Mary Alice) Hendrickson 
> lived and the address I come up with is 20 Interlaken Road, Greenwich, CT 
> 06830.  There is no street view on Google but from the satellite photo it 
> looks like it could be the same house as I seem some of what appear to be 
> similar curved features on the roof.
> 
> From: Tarek Hoteit via cctalk [mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org]
> Sent: Friday, March 24, 2023 10:23 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: Tarek Hoteit
> Subject: [cctalk] Sun/Tronic House
> 
> Hi. I came across an article about the "Sun/Tronic House" in the July/August
> 1981 issue of Computers and Programming magazine.
> The article references the Apple 2 as the computer that controls everything 
> in the house that also relies on solar energy.
> The house, per the article, is (or was) in Greenwich, Connecticut. I also 
> found a photo of the house at 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.1000bit.it/storia/apple/suntronic_house.asp__;!!AQdq3sQhfUj4q8uUguY!kmCjCStYOiJwcIejpowMXz3RahyIlXB9fWARk3IPPyKfq1ZKxiuzHJhM1UVDOzPAQAXzGVkSp6DrTP8UJaMkQYKvhsw$
>  
> I am curious to know if the house and the Apple IIs are still there. Anyone 
> has a clue?
> 
> (A copy of the magazine is at
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://archive.org/details/sim_computers-and-programming_july-august-1981_2__;!!AQdq3sQhfUj4q8uUguY!kmCjCStYOiJwcIejpowMXz3RahyIlXB9fWARk3IPPyKfq1ZKxiuzHJhM1UVDOzPAQAXzGVkSp6DrTP8UJaMkCvAPUgI$
>  
> 1_4 page 38).
> --
> Regards,
> Tarek Hoteit
> 
> 

[cctalk] Sun/Tronic House

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Hi. I came across an article about the "Sun/Tronic House" in the July/August 
1981 issue of Computers and Programming magazine.
The article references the Apple 2 as the computer that controls everything in 
the house that also relies on solar energy.
The house, per the article, is (or was) in Greenwich, Connecticut. I also found 
a photo of the house at https://www.1000bit.it/storia/apple/suntronic_house.asp
I am curious to know if the house and the Apple IIs are still there. Anyone has 
a clue?

(A copy of the magazine is at 
https://archive.org/details/sim_computers-and-programming_july-august-1981_21_4 
page 38).
--
Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Re: Visiting the computer history museum (chm)

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Will do ! Thank you 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 15, 2023, at 9:37 AM, ebruchez--- via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I just wanted to say that the CHM is great. The exhibits are wonderfully 
> done, and yes, don't miss the 1401 demo if you can. But there is a lot, 
> starting with Hollerith machines and ENIAC panels all the way to more 
> contemporary items.
> 
> -Erik

[cctalk] Re: Visiting the computer history museum (chm)

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Awesome. Thank you! I will be there tomorrow Wednesday. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 14, 2023, at 12:03 AM, Curious Marc  wrote:
> 
> The cafeteria is open, there is a Starbucks and even a nice Italian across 
> the street if you want to treat yourself. On Wednesdays we have a demo of the 
> IBM 1401 at 3 pm, and before that the restoration team works on it from 10:30 
> am on (it needs constant maintenance and repairs to keep it running).  I 
> should be there. Come around and say hi! 
> Google headquarters are up the road, worth a picture in front of the sign. Of 
> course a stop at Anchor Electronics in Santa Clara if you are interested in 
> vintage components. The slightly underwhelming Intel Museum in Santa Clara 
> also. No more Weird Stuff, Halted and Excess Solutions unfortunately :-(
> Marc
> 
>> On Mar 13, 2023, at 9:48 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I truly appreciate all the suggestions that I received for my computer 
>> history museum visit this coming Wednesday including the food options and 
>> the nearby areas. Some notes about the “old Silicon Valley”, the limited 
>> food options, and some nearby technology shops being gone is sad, but it is 
>> what it is. It is all an outcome of the new generation and the disregard for 
>> the old. I guess the old Silicon Valley is is one big partial museum, and 
>> the new are just the campuses of the big tech companies. Everything else is 
>> just now virtual. I will still make the best out of the visit. Cheers!
>> 
>> Thank you, again.  
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tarek Hoteit
>> 
>>>> On Mar 12, 2023, at 9:28 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk 
>>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello. I am visiting the Computer History Museum in California next week. 
>>> I always wanted to check it out and spend a day there, but something else 
>>> happens. Any recommendations of what is a must see at the museum and 
>>> anything else classic computing nearby in one day only (March 15)? 
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Re: Vintage den

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

That is the social media alternative to Twitter. It is called Mastodon. It is a 
decentralized network. More info is at 
https://techcrunch.com/2022/11/08/what-is-mastodon/

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 13, 2023, at 8:30 PM, Adrian Stoness via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> what site is that?
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 13, 2023 at 6:17 PM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Oh yes it is so cool. We were talking about it with its owner IceBreaker
>> on Mastodon https://mastodon.social/@particlesbbs/10730168329945
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tarek Hoteit
>> 
>>> On Mar 13, 2023, at 2:54 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Has anyone seen the latest on ArsTECHNICA journal on Brian Green’s
>>> “deluxe home vintage computer den”? Does it bring back many fond memories
>>> of the 70s and 80s. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Happy computing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Murray  
>> 

[cctalk] Re: Vintage den

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Oh yes it is so cool. We were talking about it with its owner IceBreaker on 
Mastodon https://mastodon.social/@particlesbbs/10730168329945 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 13, 2023, at 2:54 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> 
> 
>  Has anyone seen the latest on ArsTECHNICA journal on Brian Green’s
> “deluxe home vintage computer den”? Does it bring back many fond memories
> of the 70s and 80s. 
> 
> 
> 
> Happy computing.
> 
> 
> 
> Murray  

[cctalk] Mad Magazine latest issue about computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

The latest issue of Mad Magazine (April 2023) is titled “MAD Takes Apart 
Technology”. The pages include reprints of past articles that relate to 
computers, such as “if computers are so brilliant” (Oct 1985), “13 things you 
never want to hear from a computer guy” (May 2005), various y2k, and some 
50s/60s tech humor. I posted the cover photo here: 
https://ne.thote.it/@tarek/110018157647679272

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Re: Visiting the computer history museum (chm)

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I truly appreciate all the suggestions that I received for my computer history 
museum visit this coming Wednesday including the food options and the nearby 
areas. Some notes about the “old Silicon Valley”, the limited food options, and 
some nearby technology shops being gone is sad, but it is what it is. It is all 
an outcome of the new generation and the disregard for the old. I guess the old 
Silicon Valley is is one big partial museum, and the new are just the campuses 
of the big tech companies. Everything else is just now virtual. I will still 
make the best out of the visit. Cheers!

  Thank you, again.  

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 12, 2023, at 9:28 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello. I am visiting the Computer History Museum in California next week. I 
> always wanted to check it out and spend a day there, but something else 
> happens. Any recommendations of what is a must see at the museum and anything 
> else classic computing nearby in one day only (March 15)? 
> 
> Regards,
> Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Re: Visiting the computer history museum (chm)

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Thanks Jim -> will take a photo of Microdata 1600!

“The Microdata 1600 I donated to the CHM is of course my favorite. In the 
timeline part of the display”

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 12, 2023, at 1:43 PM, jim stephens via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/12/23 15:00, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote:
>> Thank you so much. The links are extremely helpful. Actually, your entire 
>> blog is excellent, Steve
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tarek Hoteit
>> 
>>>> On Mar 12, 2023, at 12:24 PM, Steve Lewis via cctalk 
>>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> Hello. I am visiting the Computer History Museum in California next week
>>> Tarek,
>>> 
>>> I forgot, I have my own little CHM notes page here:
>>> https://voidstar.blog/vcf-west-2021/
>>> 
>>> Not much, since at the time not all the exhibits were re-opened yet - so
>>> there is much more to see now-a-days. May look into the schedule of their
>>> 1401 demo (I think they do fairly regularly, but schedule may vary).
>>> 
>>> While in the area, I did make it over to Oakhurst to see the old Sierra
>>> (software company) buildings - it was meaningful to me, but it's a far
>>> drive.  I have notes about it at the bottom of this page:
>>> https://voidstar.blog/san-francisco-california-2021/
>>> 
>>> -Steve
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> You might check the shops across the street on maps to see their hours.  With 
> the area, they are most likely to be open during hours when the surrounding 
> offices are occupied during the week, so on weekends as mentioned earlier 
> might need to go a bit to find food. But there are a lot of spots around that 
> are good.
> 
> The Microdata 1600 I donated to the CHM is of course my favorite. In the 
> timeline part of the display
> Thanks
> Jim
> 

[cctalk] Re: Visiting the computer history museum (chm)

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Thank you so much. The links are extremely helpful. Actually, your entire blog 
is excellent, Steve 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 12, 2023, at 12:24 PM, Steve Lewis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Hello. I am visiting the Computer History Museum in California next week
> 
> Tarek,
> 
> I forgot, I have my own little CHM notes page here:
> https://voidstar.blog/vcf-west-2021/
> 
> Not much, since at the time not all the exhibits were re-opened yet - so
> there is much more to see now-a-days. May look into the schedule of their
> 1401 demo (I think they do fairly regularly, but schedule may vary).
> 
> While in the area, I did make it over to Oakhurst to see the old Sierra
> (software company) buildings - it was meaningful to me, but it's a far
> drive.  I have notes about it at the bottom of this page:
> https://voidstar.blog/san-francisco-california-2021/
> 
> -Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 12, 2023 at 11:28 AM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello. I am visiting the Computer History Museum in California next week.
>> I always wanted to check it out and spend a day there, but something else
>> happens. Any recommendations of what is a must see at the museum and
>> anything else classic computing nearby in one day only (March 15)?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Visiting the computer history museum (chm)

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Hello. I am visiting the Computer History Museum in California next week. I 
always wanted to check it out and spend a day there, but something else 
happens. Any recommendations of what is a must see at the museum and anything 
else classic computing nearby in one day only (March 15)? 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Re: bryanipad.shop site....

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Thank you for catching the scam here. I saw an Apple Iie for $99 on the site 
with a monitor and keyboard that is too good to be true. The site is complete 
with fraud and bs. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 10, 2023, at 9:29 AM, rescue via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> 
> Recently rejoined the list
> 
> saw someone mention that site
> 
> way too good to be true and with a bit of poking around  looks like 
> most if not all are scraped right from eBay.
> One item has the eBay price on the bryanipad.shop site crossed out and the 
> lower price added.
> 
> I spent too much time on that site before vetting it
> Should have realized the pizza slice logo in the top left was a clear 
> indicator to run away (faster) :-)
> 
> 
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: Why the Floppy Disk Just Won't Die

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Floppydisk.com also sells 100 promotional disks (no working disks) for $12. 
They also sell 5.25 nonworking ones with different colors that can be used for 
projects. I think those would be nice for making art projects at schools, 
mancaves, and home offices. Good coffee coasters like the old days too. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 9, 2023, at 10:57 PM, RETRO Innovations via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> https://www.wired.com/story/why-the-floppy-disk-just-wont-die/
> 
> Take what you want from the article, but I thought the end paragraph, noting 
> that Tom Persky of floppydisk.com is 73 and is only planning to handle things 
> for 5 more years.  After that, he thinks the company will not transfer to 
> anyone.
> 
> Interesting thoughts there.
> 
> Jim
> 
> -- 
> RETRO Innovations, Contemporary Gear for Classic Systems
> www.go4retro.com
> store.go4retro.com
> 

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I just ordered your book from Amazon. I am looking forward to reading it. 


Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 9, 2023, at 2:51 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On Mar 9, 2023, at 5:20 PM, Murray McCullough via cctalk 
>  wrote:
>>> A lot has been written about the origins of the microcomputer. I wrote a
>>> book on the topic. Many thanks for mentioning Canada. Whether one is
>>> playing games or doing something else micro-computing is usually associated
>>> with a microprocessor as CPU. Anything earlier is a minicomputer or
>>> something else.
> 
> On Thu, 9 Mar 2023, Paul Koning via cctalk wrote:
>> Sure, although that can get fuzzy.  A 4004 microcomputer needs multiple 
>> chips.  Conversely, I don't think DEC would call an 11/83 a microcomputer 
>> even though it uses a single chip (J-11) CPU.  Ditto the various small VAXen.
> 
> ALL attempts at dividing lines will have exceptions.
> 
> I remember when there were attempts to draw the lines based on how much 
> memory each had.  But, times change, and my phone is still not a mainframe.
> 
> 
> BIG / BIGGER / BIGGEST
> 
> Lose:
> screw / screwdriver / scope (or technician)
> 
> pick it up / handtruck / forklift and union moving crew
> 
> delivery:
> trunk of your car / delivery truck / moving vanS
> 
> desk / room / building
> 
> week's pay / year's pay / financing.
> 
> sales clerk / visiting salesman / department presentations
> 
> extension cord / dedicated circuit / dedicated pole transformer
> 
> sane / eccentric / raving lunatic
> 
> SO is:
> annoyed / furious / long gone
> 
> . . .
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

:) it makes sense, Sellam, to inform her rather than she telling us, but again 
she and others her age are the future. She will do it her way just like we, at 
her age, did it our way. Funny: i just remembered a quote from Goonies - “this 
is our time”   



It is their time 


Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 8, 2023, at 12:22 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 11:55 AM Will Cooke via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
>>> On 03/08/2023 11:59 AM CST Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>> We probably need to get more advice from her on what we all, old-school
>> timers, should do to help keep the legacy going on !
>>> Regards,
>>> Tarek Hoteit
>> That statement may be the most important one on this list in a long, long
>> time.
>> Will
> 
> Huh?  That makes less than zero sense.
> 
> We're already doing what we're doing.  She should be asking US what SHE
> should do to preserve the legacy we've carried on to her and her generation.
> 
> I mean, is anyone actually serious about asking Greta how to save the
> planet?
> 
> Don't abdicate your responsibilities as an experienced adult over to
> inherently naive children.
> 
> Sellam

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

:) it makes sense, Sellam, to inform her rather than she telling us, but again 
she and others her age are the future. She will do it her way just like we, at 
her age, did it our way. Funny: i just remembered a quote from Goonies - “this 
is our time”   



It is their time 


Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 8, 2023, at 12:22 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 11:55 AM Will Cooke via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
>> 
>>> On 03/08/2023 11:59 AM CST Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>>> We probably need to get more advice from her on what we all, old-school
>> timers, should do to help keep the legacy going on !
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Tarek Hoteit
>>> 
>> 
>> That statement may be the most important one on this list in a long, long
>> time.
>> 
>> Will
>> 
> 
> Huh?  That makes less than zero sense.
> 
> We're already doing what we're doing.  She should be asking US what SHE
> should do to preserve the legacy we've carried on to her and her generation.
> 
> I mean, is anyone actually serious about asking Greta how to save the
> planet?
> 
> Don't abdicate your responsibilities as an experienced adult over to
> inherently naive children.
> 
> Sellam

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

We can ask them by saying “we were at your age and had toys that we loved so 
much that we still talk about them 40 years or so later. If you have a toy that 
you want to preserve that for 40 years, what would you do?” 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 8, 2023, at 12:43 PM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 12:40 PM Will Cooke via cctalk 
> wrote:
> 
>> Everyone on this list is going to die sometime.  Some sooner than later.
>> We need young people if all or any part of this history is going to be
>> preserved past us.  All of the "museum" fiascos that have been covered here
>> show how easily it is lost.  But as Tarek mentioned in his follow up, very
>> few young people are interested.  So, how do we get them interested?  I
>> can't think of a better idea than asking one of the few that IS
>> interested.  Can you?
>> 
> 
> But ask them what exactly?
> 
> Sellam

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Technically true. However, if I would reference the book “The Friendly Orange 
Glow” on the history of Plato, there is a chapter I recall in which the author 
mentioned someone taking a terminal to their home 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 8, 2023, at 12:56 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On 3/8/2023 2:54 PM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote:
>> I don’t think there is a strict definition of what a home computer is. One 
>> can argue Plato is one.
> 
> There must be a Plato I don't know about.  The one I saw when I was in IT at
> 
> West Point was bigger than a desk.  Hardly what would have passed for a home
> 
> computer.  (Although it was only a few years later when I had an Apollo in my
> 
> home!!  :-)  It was almost as big.
> 
> 
> bill
> 
> 

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

We can get them excited by thinking like them - videos (narrated by their kind 
not us) and we are in the background. We play old school games and make fun of 
the 8bit sounds in front of them. Some might get curious and say “why does this 
sound like that?” Or “why this graphic looks so different”. Then we begin a 
short story “once upon a time …” but end it in 10 minute or less. Or, jokes 
aside, we consult with Steve’s middle schooler cause, honesty, I have not heard 
of any other person at that age truly interested. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 8, 2023, at 12:46 PM, Will Cooke via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 03/08/2023 2:42 PM CST Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 12:40 PM Will Cooke via cctalk 
>> wrote:
> So, how do we get them interested? I
>>> can't think of a better idea than asking one of the few that IS
>>> interested. Can you?
>> 
>> But ask them what exactly?
>> 
>> Sellam
> 
> Some variation of "what is it that makes this interesting to you?"

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

That is great news. I think these kids saw the 90s as  NES (Mario), Sega 
(Sonic), and their dads playing either Leisure Suite Larry and later Doom on 
the PC. I think we need to find a way to pull them to this news group, rather 
than them pulling us to their Discord chats, and then all of us would have to 
behave with the kids around. :)

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 8, 2023, at 12:46 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Running  museum (kennettclassic.com)  I meet with kids daily who are very
> interested in computing history.  They all seem to know the Youtubers who
> specialize in vintage gaming and computing.  These youtube channels are not
> always historically accurate but it's a start.  Most younger people
> gravitate to systems made after 1990.  They're not as interested in things
> they can't identify with.  It's hard to just jump in.  Computers are not
> like cars.  Computers from 50 years ago are fundamentally different.  Cars
> that are 50 years old can still drive the highways
> b
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 3:43 PM Sellam Abraham via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 12:40 PM Will Cooke via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Everyone on this list is going to die sometime.  Some sooner than later.
>>> We need young people if all or any part of this history is going to be
>>> preserved past us.  All of the "museum" fiascos that have been covered
>> here
>>> show how easily it is lost.  But as Tarek mentioned in his follow up,
>> very
>>> few young people are interested.  So, how do we get them interested?  I
>>> can't think of a better idea than asking one of the few that IS
>>> interested.  Can you?
>>> 
>> 
>> But ask them what exactly?
>> 
>> Sellam
>> 

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Thank you, Bill!
When Steve posted the video about the history of computers, I thought something 
like “cool to see another video” But when he mentioned a middle schooler 
helping, that changed the entire perspective for me. I am close to 50. I have 
seen and been part of vintage and classic computing. I still enjoy them and my 
kids, who are now 19 and 17, have heard me talking a lot about computing. Yet, 
they had no curiosity on any of those. “It is a dad’s thing”, they would say. 
Same thing happened with my siblings at a younger age. I am a Gen X. My two 
siblings are one a Gen X and another a Gen Y. My kids are a Gen Z. No one in my 
family had any interests. Then I get frustrated when I hear my nieces, nephews 
or even my kids saying “ChatGpt is so cool” or “TikTok does magic with the 
videos” or “Instagram has these cool filters.”  Yet, they have no clue about 
everything or anything in tech that led to those creations. I try to bring back 
the topics of bits, bytes, ram, cpu, inventions in tech.  They respond with 
nothing but a blank-I-am-bored face. None of these younger generation are even 
curious about the Ataris, the Vectrex, the old machines, or even the legacy 
books that is on our shelves. Then I see the message from Steve about his 
middle schooler. That is amazing. That is awesome! I rarely type on this 
newsgroup or any newsgroup. Steve’s post (and subsequent update) about his 
middle schooler being curious and is helping with the video has made my day! I 
hope it did for all other fellow old-timers! 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 8, 2023, at 11:55 AM, wrco...@wrcooke.net wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>>> On 03/08/2023 11:59 AM CST Tarek Hoteit via cctalk  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> We probably need to get more advice from her on what we all, old-school 
>> timers, should do to help keep the legacy going on !
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tarek Hoteit
>> 
> 
> That statement may be the most important one on this list in a long, long 
> time.
> 
> Will

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I don’t think there is a strict definition of what a home computer is. One can 
argue Plato is one. Another might say Atari 2600. Someone can argue that the 
Altair is the first. It is unfair to make the author of the video be 100% 
perfect because it is too technical / debatable for the video: is it the 
microprocessor first? Or is it usage? Home vs, say, the Homebrew club, vs Plato 
terminals etc. I personally think that the video is great as is, regardless of 
the consensus on what truly is a home computer and what truly its evolution (eg 
different books are not even consistent in their story telling). Maybe, this 
discussion leads to more videos by Steve and his daughter, or maybe it is time 
now that middle schoolers can tell us “what do THEY think is a home or a 
personal computer”. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 8, 2023, at 11:44 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> SO - To return to the video feedback - I think the author should comment on
> the evolution of what "Home Computing" is/was, the evolution in
> demographics of the home computer user, the cost, etc.  Needs perspective
> Bill
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 2:41 PM Bill Degnan  wrote:
>> 
>> My point was that "home computing" does not equal playing computer games
>> at home.  That is something that evolved into the early 90's.Games were
>> much less of a thing in home computing of the 70's.  THere are always
>> exceptions, there are always variations. It's not that games weren't there
>> either, it's just that economically if you wanted to play games in the 70;s
>> you bought a console or went to the arcade.  Home computer games were
>> inferior in the earliest versions
>> b
>> 
>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 2:37 PM Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
 -Original Message-
 From: Paul Koning via cctalk 
 Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 7:25 PM
 To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
 Cc: Paul Koning 
 Subject: [cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers
 
 
> On Mar 8, 2023, at 2:13 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk
>>> 
 wrote:
> 
> There is ample evidence of people doing personal computing before the
> microprocessor was invented.  There was a whole terminal/time sharing
> scene in the late 60s, plus people who did personal computung by using
> the machine at a school, work, or library.  There were also people
> whonowned surplussed minicomputers who used them at home.  I think you
> should consider mentioning this somehow.
> 
> Really, your video is about personal computers with a microprocessor
> installed.
> 
> A person from the 70s would not look at computing the same as we do
>>> today.
> The larger consumer of "home computers" were doing engineering type
> work, not so much playing games.  Even the apple/tandy/commodore
>>> users.
 
 Conversely, computer games predates home computers by a decade or so;
>>> the
 PLATO system is a major source of early games, documented in several
>>> places.
>>> 
>>> Computer Games are almost as old as (Turing Complete) Computers. Alan
>>> Turing
>>> insisted that the Manchester/Ferranti MK1 had a Random Number generator.
>>> Christopher Strachey wrote a tic-tac-toe (noughts and crosses to the
>>> English) program which displayed its output in patterns on the MK1 screen.
>>> In 1951 he wrote a checkers/draughts program for the Mk1.
>>> He also wrote the "love letters" program.
>>> .. Turing was thinking about Chess but he couldn't fit it in the MK1
>>> 
 
  paul
>>> 
>>> Dave
>>> 
>>> 

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Yes.  I second that. Having the daughter as a narrator is perfect. No offense, 
Steve. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 8, 2023, at 10:09 AM, W2HX via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> I loved it. I would only suggest a human narrator like your daughter would 
> be great. But I don't like the computer generated narration (I am right about 
> the computer narrator, aren't I?). 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Steve Lewis via cctalk  
> Sent: Wednesday, March 8, 2023 11:54 AM
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
> Cc: Steve Lewis 
> Subject: [cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers
> 
> Adrian,
> 
>> There's a long tail to the video with no video and blank audio. After 
>> a while, a section of audio from the main flow is repeated.
> 
> Thanks, yeah that was a left over to compare an alternate ending. One
> idea is to make it such that the video can "loop" seamlessly for continuous
> play, at say a museum.   And the plan is to put it under Creative Commons
> since I'm told that's the best way to help ensure it can be re-used without 
> question.
> 
> The plan was to keep it to 10min - at one point we had it up to 30min!!
> Minus the inadvertent excess, it'll be exactly 15min.  A part2 might focus 
> more on the Z80 and 6502 lines themselves, or I was thinking a kind of bio on 
> the actual engineers involved ("the names and faces").
> 
> Canada is represented also :)  And I just recalled, the "TK-80" (training kit 
> Z80 board) is also a "made in Japan" item (and led to the PC-8001 in '79), it 
> probably needs a flag (and I wanted to show a France flag for the Micral-N -- 
> but in the effort to keep it closer to 10min, we just couldn't cover every 
> item to keep a reasonable tempo). So then we debated to not have popup flags 
> at all, but I felt it was important to note that there was international 
> involvement here.
> 
> -Steve
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 5:55 AM Adrian Godwin via cctalk < 
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Not really technical, but a couple of presentation points :
>> 
>> There's a long tail to the video with no video and blank audio. After 
>> a while, a section of audio from the main flow is repeated.
>> 
>> It seems to be common to consider Youtube videos more approachable if 
>> they're up to about 10 minutes long. You might benefit by splitting it 
>> into
>> 2 parts.
>> 
>> And even further off topic ..  I see that the pictorial guide includes 
>> machines from GB and Japan (and I think a Sharp is mentioned in the 
>> description). Although GB was heavily influenced by USA machines it 
>> did have it's own distinct history and so, I think, did Japan. Russia 
>> also had clones of well known machines and their own designs. Did any 
>> other countries have a history that was more complex than  picking the 
>> best known parts of the international trade ?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 11:24 AM Steve Lewis via cctalk < 
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Greetings,
>>> 
>>> We're making final touches on a short history-video we've been 
>>> making
>> about
>>> home computers (my daughter, in middle school, has been helping).
>>> 
>>> If anyone has time/interest to do a review, the draft listing is here:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9mgSVJZoFc
>>> 
>>> Unless anyone spots a gross technical error, we're hoping to render 
>>> the final sometime this weekend or sometime this month.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve
>>> 
>> 

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

She made you proud!! If all our kids can get as excited and curious about the 
history of computers as your daughter then the future will be so bright. 
We probably need to get more advice from her on what we all, old-school timers, 
should do to help keep the legacy going on !

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 8, 2023, at 9:05 AM, Steve Lewis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Tarek,
> 
>> This is awesome, Steve. First of all please give a high five to your
> middle-schooler daughter whom you had her help make such a high
>> quality video. I assume that such videos will also be shared at schools,
> and your daughter’s friends. It would help raise awareness on
>> the history of computers that ultimately led to today’s devices and
> software. For once, our kids can say “aha, so this is where home computers
> came from?” :)
> 
> You got it, the hope is to help awareness and be something acceptable for
> schools to use.   And part of this started when my daughter asked me "what
> was the first home computer?"   I just couldn't give a simple answer :)
> She did the background (her signature is at the bottom left, "Carrion" --
> and its subtle, but the gray at the top and bottom was intended to
> represent silica sand) and picked most of the system arrangement.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 9:25 AM Tarek Hoteit via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>> This is awesome, Steve. First of all please give a high five to your
>> middle-schooler daughter whom you had her help make such a high quality
>> video. I assume that such videos will also be shared at schools, and your
>> daughter’s friends. It would help raise awareness on the history of
>> computers that ultimately led to today’s devices and software. For once,
>> our kids can say “aha, so this is where home computers came from?” :)
>> In terms of content, I love the wealth of photos that are included. I can
>> see that a lot of research was made for each item. As for the chronology of
>> events or machines, there is never a 100% accurate story. Adrian, talked
>> about US, UK, and Japan influence  Yes but then what’s the fine line of
>> telling the story without getting too long and too technical. I think you
>> managed to strike a good balance in your video in terms of content and
>> machines. Well done!
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Tarek Hoteit
>> 
>>> On Mar 8, 2023, at 3:25 AM, Steve Lewis via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Greetings,
>>> 
>>> We're making final touches on a short history-video we've been making
>> about
>>> home computers (my daughter, in middle school, has been helping).
>>> 
>>> If anyone has time/interest to do a review, the draft listing is here:
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9mgSVJZoFc
>>> 
>>> Unless anyone spots a gross technical error, we're hoping to render the
>>> final sometime this weekend or sometime this month.
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Steve
>> 

[cctalk] Re: on the origin of home computers

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

This is awesome, Steve. First of all please give a high five to your 
middle-schooler daughter whom you had her help make such a high quality video. 
I assume that such videos will also be shared at schools, and your daughter’s 
friends. It would help raise awareness on the history of computers that 
ultimately led to today’s devices and software. For once, our kids can say 
“aha, so this is where home computers came from?” :) 
In terms of content, I love the wealth of photos that are included. I can see 
that a lot of research was made for each item. As for the chronology of events 
or machines, there is never a 100% accurate story. Adrian, talked about US, UK, 
and Japan influence  Yes but then what’s the fine line of telling the story 
without getting too long and too technical. I think you managed to strike a 
good balance in your video in terms of content and machines. Well done!

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Mar 8, 2023, at 3:25 AM, Steve Lewis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> We're making final touches on a short history-video we've been making about
> home computers (my daughter, in middle school, has been helping).
> 
> If anyone has time/interest to do a review, the draft listing is here:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9mgSVJZoFc
> 
> Unless anyone spots a gross technical error, we're hoping to render the
> final sometime this weekend or sometime this month.
> 
> Thanks,
> Steve

[cctalk] Re: Store with "vintage" computers and parts

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Sorry folks for all the typos in my last post. 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Feb 15, 2023, at 10:04 AM, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Seems click bait to me. The store has only 1 item listed and 809 reviews. 
> 165 watchers too. If we have 165 watchers interesting in this thinkpad (which 
> by the way one was sold with 15bid for $232 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/144927584635) then maybe that 818,888 (notice the 
> flowers too in the listing) than I assume at least one is in this group. 
> Seems to me the listing is a sarcastic or insulting way to recognize vintage 
> tech 
> 
> Regards,
> Tarek Hoteit
> 
>>> On Feb 14, 2023, at 10:45 PM, Steve Lewis via cctalk 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>> Wait, are Web Rings going to come back into fashion? :D
>> 
>> Speaking of shady vintage websites, what the heck is up with this guy
>> trying to sell a late model IBM laptop for more than an Apple-1 ?  Is that
>> Hunter's laptop?
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/183849347474
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:15 AM Ethan O'Toole via cctalk <
>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>> 
>>>> I would be interested in knowing some of those options.
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Will
>>> 
>>> Brave Search / Brave Browser is one.
>>> 
>>> Yandex is a Russian search engine that can come in useful sometimes.
>>> 
>>> Trying to find ISO CD images of discs for music hardware (Samplers) it
>>> feels like the internet through google is way smaller than it used to be.
>>> 
>>> The bad thing is there is a ton of knowledge on facebook that isn't
>>> indexed to the public web.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> : Ethan O'Toole
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 

[cctalk] Re: Store with "vintage" computers and parts

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Seems click bait to me. The store has only 1 item listed and 809 reviews. 165 
watchers too. If we have 165 watchers interesting in this thinkpad (which by 
the way one was sold with 15bid for $232 https://www.ebay.com/itm/144927584635) 
then maybe that 818,888 (notice the flowers too in the listing) than I assume 
at least one is in this group. Seems to me the listing is a sarcastic or 
insulting way to recognize vintage tech 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Feb 14, 2023, at 10:45 PM, Steve Lewis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Wait, are Web Rings going to come back into fashion? :D
> 
> Speaking of shady vintage websites, what the heck is up with this guy
> trying to sell a late model IBM laptop for more than an Apple-1 ?  Is that
> Hunter's laptop?
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/183849347474
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Feb 10, 2023 at 10:15 AM Ethan O'Toole via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> 
>>> I would be interested in knowing some of those options.
>>> Thanks,
>>> Will
>> 
>> Brave Search / Brave Browser is one.
>> 
>> Yandex is a Russian search engine that can come in useful sometimes.
>> 
>> Trying to find ISO CD images of discs for music hardware (Samplers) it
>> feels like the internet through google is way smaller than it used to be.
>> 
>> The bad thing is there is a ton of knowledge on facebook that isn't
>> indexed to the public web.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> : Ethan O'Toole
>> 
>> 
>> 

[cctalk] Re: SDF had put a PDP-10 on the Internet

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Ok let me answer that about sdf.org. I joined as a member last year. What I am 
saying below is what I learned along the way. It is a nonprofit organization in 
Seattle that started decades ago promoting Unix for the masses. I joined out of 
a curiosity and my interests in anything classical computing just like this 
newsgroup. However, I still don’t know who runs it or who responds to my 
questions over there. You get a basic Unix (bsd) shell account that lets you 
chat with various other users within a chat application and a bulletin board. 
There are a bunch of services that you can upgrade to and are cheap (the site 
has a link to them). For each you send a donation to sdf PayPal account and 
they get activated. I don’t know who activates them but it does get done 
quickly. Services vary and include access to hosted MySQL/Postgresql, a vps 
instance, a Mastodon account, etc. Nothing that one cannot do though self 
hosting or through commercial means. But with sdf, they kept it very basic, 
nonprofit, educational, and oldschool. 
They are not trying to sell you something and making profit. At least that is 
how I see it. Even though I may not need sdf services, I managed to meet a 
community of common enthusiasts in retro computing on its platform, including 
its volunteers’ running radio station (aNonRadio), its Mastodon instance, and 
its old-school terminal-mode chats. I would imagine any classiccmp reader would 
relate to sdf and vice versa. Don’t know if this helps or just leads to more 
curiosity questions about sdf 

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

> On Feb 11, 2023, at 1:18 AM, Christian Corti via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2023, Mark Huffstutter wrote:
>> Well, I don't know what to tell you. I am looking at the sdf.org page right 
>> now, and
>> When I click on the welcome tab at the top of the page I see the same 
>> message I did
>> When I posted the first email. Maybe it's a local problem.
> 
> Ok, the site seems to be up again. I got network timeouts yesterday.
> But instead of constantly telling me to look myself, a member here could just 
> have written a couple of words to answer my question... Noone wants to 
> explain anything anymore, everyone is just pointing the world to google and 
> the internet.
> 
> Christian

[cctalk] 1975 Homebrew Computer Club Newsletter

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

One website has an archive of the first Homebrew Computer Club newsletters. The 
newsletter is associated with the Homebrew club that kicked off the personal 
computer revolution

 https://arkive.net/gallery/homebrew-computer-club

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit

[cctalk] Re: Excellent CHM Article on Apple Lisa Software (Apple Archive)

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

I think companies treat their product as inventory items. Companies are not 
even meant to last forever, whereas the expectations of museums is that they 
should. Moreover, the excitement of acquiring a product with serial number 1 is 
coming from us, the consumers. You expected the Radio Shack person you 
contacted to be as excited but that person does not share the passion. Plus if 
he or she do, it will likely because they share the passion. I think you should 
donate the machine to CHM or some museum that would make a serious effort to 
store and showcase the item. If the item is more valuable to you then to them 
then, if I were you, I would showcase it on a bookshelf, take some photos, and 
share it to the world. The piece will eventually vanishes just like many serial 
number 1 products have sadly phased off, except for  Apple 1

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
https://tarek.computer

> On Jan 26, 2023, at 4:00 AM, Nigel Johnson Ham via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> Companies don't care about history.  It does not affect the next quarter's 
> sales. I had serial number 1 of a Radio Shack shortwave receiver and offered 
> it to them.
> 
> I got a reply back, 'I'm sorry, we no longer support that model.'
> 
> cheers,
> 
> Nigel
> 
> 
> 
> Nigel Johnson, MSc., MIEEE, MCSE VE3ID/G4AJQ/VA3MCU
> Amateur Radio, the origin of the open-source concept!
> Skype:  TILBURY2591
> 
> 
>> On 2023-01-25 21:33, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:
>> Thank you for that link.
>> 
>> As usual, the Vogons get credit for something that was accomplished in spite 
>> of the Vogons.
>> 
>> 
>> At one time, Apple had a historical exhibit.  It ended with the Macintosh, 
>> with NO provision for any future expansion.
>> 
>> -- 
>> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, 25 Jan 2023, Tarek Hoteit via cctalk wrote:
>>> Though it is not a source code, there is a nice article by a retired 
>>> librarian that used to work at Apple. Anna Mancini helped save a lot of 
>>> material that Apple discarded in the past. Anna talks about the Apple 
>>> Archives at 
>>> https://annamancini.substack.com/p/how-the-apple-archive-ended-up-at
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Tarek Hoteit
>>> https://tarek.computer

[cctalk] Re: Excellent CHM Article on Apple Lisa Software (Apple Archive)

[Tarek Hoteit via cctalk]

Though it is not a source code, there is a nice article by a retired librarian 
that used to work at Apple. Anna Mancini helped save a lot of material that 
Apple discarded in the past. Anna talks about the Apple Archives at 
https://annamancini.substack.com/p/how-the-apple-archive-ended-up-at

Regards,
Tarek Hoteit
https://tarek.computer

> On Jan 25, 2023, at 2:59 PM, Lee Courtney via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I thought this was an excellent article on work at CHM on curating,
> documenting, and making Apple Lisa software available - thank you Al. Would
> be interesting to see other software collection objects curated in this way.
> 
> https://computerhistory.org/blog/apple-lisa-still-more-to-uncover/
> 
> Enjoy!
> -- 
> Lee Courtney