[cctalk] Re: Mac SE/30 + SCSI2SD: Disk errors and random crashes

[Wayne S via cctalk]

Intermittent power supply problem? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 11, 2022, at 10:55, David Glover-Aoki via cctalk 
>  wrote:
> 
> I have a recently recapped SE/30, and I have installed a SCSI2SD (v5.0a) 
> inside it. I don't have a (working) CD drive, and the floppy drive is broken, 
> so I configured SCSI device 3 to be a CD-ROM drive, and put the System 7.5.3 
> installer inside it, along with a copy of the patched "HD SC Setup" utility, 
> so I can format the other SCSI devices, which are configured as 2GB hard 
> disks.
> 
> Booting from the "CD" works fine. Formatting the disks works fine.
> 
> I cannot get the System 7.5.3 installer to complete. After copying a few 
> files, it complains that an error occurred, and then aborts.
> 
> Additionally, if I attempt to copy the contents of the "CD" to a hard disk, 
> after copying a few files, I get an error that says a "disk error" occurred. 
> It's not the same file every time, it copies a random number of files 
> successfully before erroring.
> 
> I've have also had a few random bomb errors, although these do not happen 
> reliably and I haven't managed to come up with a way of causing them on 
> demand. They may have stopped after I swapped the RAM, although that is 
> speculation.
> 
> Things that I have tried:
> 
> * Playing with the "SCSI Host", "SCSI Selection Delay", "Enable Parity", 
> "Respond to short SCSI selection pulses" settings on the SCSI2SD. No 
> combination seems to make any noticeable difference.
> 
> * Swapping out the RAM on the SE/30. I initially thought the RAM was bad, but 
> I replaced it with a different set and the symptoms are exactly the same.
> 
> * Removing the case back, in case something was overheating inside.
> 
> * Replacing the microSD card with a different one.
> 
> None of these have altered the symptoms at all, and I'm running out of ideas. 
> Any suggestions would be very welcome.
> 
> David
> 

[cctalk] Mac SE/30 + SCSI2SD: Disk errors and random crashes

[David Glover-Aoki via cctalk]

I have a recently recapped SE/30, and I have installed a SCSI2SD (v5.0a) inside 
it. I don't have a (working) CD drive, and the floppy drive is broken, so I 
configured SCSI device 3 to be a CD-ROM drive, and put the System 7.5.3 
installer inside it, along with a copy of the patched "HD SC Setup" utility, so 
I can format the other SCSI devices, which are configured as 2GB hard disks.

Booting from the "CD" works fine. Formatting the disks works fine.

I cannot get the System 7.5.3 installer to complete. After copying a few files, 
it complains that an error occurred, and then aborts.

Additionally, if I attempt to copy the contents of the "CD" to a hard disk, 
after copying a few files, I get an error that says a "disk error" occurred. 
It's not the same file every time, it copies a random number of files 
successfully before erroring.

I've have also had a few random bomb errors, although these do not happen 
reliably and I haven't managed to come up with a way of causing them on demand. 
They may have stopped after I swapped the RAM, although that is speculation.

Things that I have tried:

* Playing with the "SCSI Host", "SCSI Selection Delay", "Enable Parity", 
"Respond to short SCSI selection pulses" settings on the SCSI2SD. No 
combination seems to make any noticeable difference.

* Swapping out the RAM on the SE/30. I initially thought the RAM was bad, but I 
replaced it with a different set and the symptoms are exactly the same.

* Removing the case back, in case something was overheating inside.

* Replacing the microSD card with a different one.

None of these have altered the symptoms at all, and I'm running out of ideas. 
Any suggestions would be very welcome.

David

RE: SCSI2SD for HVD?

[Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of jim stephens via
> cctalk
> Sent: 20 November 2021 20:02
> To: Jonathan Katz via cctalk 
> Subject: Re: SCSI2SD for HVD?
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/20/2021 11:11 AM, Jonathan Katz via cctalk wrote:
> > Hey everyone!
> >
> > Has anyone been able to use a SCSI2SD setup where HVD is required? I
> > know by default that isn't supported, but given we can get custom kits
> > to solder, we could just change out one of the controller chips
> > (optimistically?)
> >
> > Cheers!
> >
> I'd think you could get one of the DEC or Pacific data converters to handle
> that.  They work well converting to SE anyway.  Are the SCSI2SD proper SE or
> LVD only?  Some SCSI don't do the SE voltage version properly, just the LVD.
> 
> DEC sold Pacific data converters with a DEC logo on them.
> 
> thanks
> Jim

Jim,
 SCSI2SD is old traditional SCSI so single ended 
Dave

Re: SCSI2SD for HVD?

[jim stephens via cctalk]

On 11/20/2021 11:11 AM, Jonathan Katz via cctalk wrote:

Hey everyone!

Has anyone been able to use a SCSI2SD setup where HVD is required? I
know by default that isn't supported, but given we can get custom kits
to solder, we could just change out one of the controller chips
(optimistically?)

Cheers!

I'd think you could get one of the DEC or Pacific data converters to 
handle that.  They work well converting to SE anyway.  Are the SCSI2SD 
proper SE or LVD only?  Some SCSI don't do the SE voltage version 
properly, just the LVD.


DEC sold Pacific data converters with a DEC logo on them.

thanks
Jim

SCSI2SD for HVD?

[Jonathan Katz via cctalk]

Hey everyone!

Has anyone been able to use a SCSI2SD setup where HVD is required? I
know by default that isn't supported, but given we can get custom kits
to solder, we could just change out one of the controller chips
(optimistically?)

Cheers!

-- 
-Jon
+44 7792 149029

RE: SCSI2SD project origination Re: SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000/300 - T-ERR-SCSI A

[Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk]

Chuck,
Some of the stuff is now proprietary, but basically this is the start page..

http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php/SCSI2SD

I do find the docs a tad sparse.

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Charles Dickman
> via cctalk
> Sent: 02 October 2021 01:32
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: SCSI2SD project origination Re: SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000/300 - T-ERR-
> SCSI A
> 
> Where is the original project for SCSI2SD? A quick google and I find a bunch 
> of
> suppliers, but where is the base project from.
> 
> -chuck

SCSI2SD project origination Re: SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000/300 - T-ERR-SCSI A

[Charles Dickman via cctalk]

Where is the original project for SCSI2SD? A quick google and I find a
bunch of suppliers, but where is the base project from.

-chuck

Re: SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000/300 - T-ERR-SCSI A

[Jerry Weiss via cctalk]

On 9/26/21 4:04 PM, Alexander Jacocks via cctalk wrote:

On Sep 26, 2021, at 10:03 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
wrote:

I was either sacrifice a data drive to make it a backup of the primary or
find a like drive first, get the system stable and then upgrade.  I have a
3000 too here if you want to work together to troubleshoot yours

Bill


On Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 9:46 AM Zane Healy via cctalk 
wrote:


On Sep 26, 2021, at 12:22 AM, Alexander Jacocks via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

I’ve got a DEC 3000/300 system that has some SCSI drives with aging

bearings installed. I’d like to be able to start to migrate some of my
systems, like this, to flash media, of some kind, as even my large
repository of SCSI disks is starting to dry up.

Here is my SRM level info:
   DEC 3000 - M300
Digital Equipment Corporation
VPP PAL V5.56-80800101/OSF PAL V1.45-80800201 - Built on 30-SEP-1996

09:18:31.84

As far as I have read, the SCSI2SD v6 2020 should be compatible with

several varieties of DEC hardware, from the VAXen to the Alphas. However, I
can’t seem to get anywhere useful with mine. I have the virtual disks
configured as follows:

sh dev

BOOTDEV  ADDR  DEVTYPENUMBYTES RM/FXWPDEVNAM

  REV

---    --- -----

  ---

ESA0 08-00-2B-3F-4C-9A , TENBT
DKA100   A/1/0 DISK 9.54GB  FXRZ40

   6.0

DKA300   A/3/0 DISK 9.54GB  FXRZ40

   6.0

DKA400   A/4/0 RODISK 305.01MB  RM  WPRRD45

6.0

All three disks are from the SCSI2SD. I have attempted to make the

inquiry strings match the originals, as closely as possible. In the SCSI2SD
utility, I have the following config:

General page: all defaults, termination off (I have tried parity, scsi2

mode, and setting SCSI speed to sync, with no improvement)

Device 1: enabled, ID 1, device Hard Drive, start sector 0, sector size

512, sector count 18636800, vendor “DEC ", product “RZ40 “,
revision “ 6.0”, serial number 

Device 2: enabled, ID 3, device Hard Drive, start sector 18636800,

sector size 512, sector count 18636800, vendor “DEC ", product “RZ40
“, revision “ 6.0”, serial number 

Device 3: enabled, ID 4, device CDROM, start sector 37273600, sector

size 2048, sector count 148933, vendor “DEC ", product “RRD45“,
revision “ 6.0”, serial number 

I’ve also tried booting from a virtual CDROM, only, with no luck there,

either. In all cases, I get the following from SRM:

test scsi

T-STS-SCSI A - Data Trans test
? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 1 lun = 0

? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 3 lun = 0

? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 4 lun = 0
?? 002  SCSI 0x0008


84 FAIL

Does anyone have an idea what might be causing this? Has anyone tried a

v6 SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000?

Thanks!
- Alex

I picked up a couple v6 boards for my AlphaStation 200 4/233, but haven’t
tried to use them yet.

Are you using the onboard SCSI, or a SCSI board?  I’m ‘going to assume
you’ve tried a different cable, and to get it working from actual physical
drives?  Have you tried turning the termination on, on the board?  Is your
SCSI Bus Terminated?

You actually have RZ40’s in the system?  I’m asking as I’m not actually
familiar with that drive type, at least it’s not one I remember off the top
fo my head.  I usually use RZ29’s.  On my v5.2 board on my VAXstation
4000/90 I think I went with basic 8GB drives, without a vendor string or
product string.

I have a Quantum XP2160 and a Seagate 1050 in my 3000. Both function, but have 
significant bearing whine, and I have no idea how many hours are on each. So, I 
know my scsi subsystem and termination are fine. I’m going to pull a scsi2sd 
v5.2 from a Quadra 700 and try that, to see if I get the same errors.

I used the RZ40 as the inquiry string, and matched the sector count, to make 
SRM happy. I have real RZ25s and RZ26es, but they are quite small. Most of my 
modern scsi disks are 10 and 15k U320s, and not a good choice for heat 
constrained enclosures like the 3000. Not to mention that 300gb is just silly 
for Digital UNIX.

- Alex


Difference in length of data sent or expected for SCSI-1 vs SCSI-2 inq 
commands?


  Jerry

Re: SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000/300 - T-ERR-SCSI A

[Alexander Jacocks via cctalk]

> On Sep 26, 2021, at 10:03 AM, Bill Degnan via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> I was either sacrifice a data drive to make it a backup of the primary or
> find a like drive first, get the system stable and then upgrade.  I have a
> 3000 too here if you want to work together to troubleshoot yours
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 9:46 AM Zane Healy via cctalk 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Sep 26, 2021, at 12:22 AM, Alexander Jacocks via cctalk <
>>> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I’ve got a DEC 3000/300 system that has some SCSI drives with aging
>> bearings installed. I’d like to be able to start to migrate some of my
>> systems, like this, to flash media, of some kind, as even my large
>> repository of SCSI disks is starting to dry up.
>>> 
>>> Here is my SRM level info:
>>>   DEC 3000 - M300
>>> Digital Equipment Corporation
>>>VPP PAL V5.56-80800101/OSF PAL V1.45-80800201 - Built on 30-SEP-1996
>> 09:18:31.84
>>> 
>>> As far as I have read, the SCSI2SD v6 2020 should be compatible with
>> several varieties of DEC hardware, from the VAXen to the Alphas. However, I
>> can’t seem to get anywhere useful with mine. I have the virtual disks
>> configured as follows:
>>> 
>>>>>> sh dev
>>> 
>>> BOOTDEV  ADDR  DEVTYPENUMBYTES RM/FXWPDEVNAM
>>  REV
>>> ---    --- -----
>>  ---
>>> ESA0 08-00-2B-3F-4C-9A , TENBT
>>> DKA100   A/1/0 DISK 9.54GB  FXRZ40
>>   6.0
>>> DKA300   A/3/0     DISK 9.54GB  FXRZ40
>>   6.0
>>> DKA400   A/4/0 RODISK 305.01MB  RM  WPRRD45
>>6.0
>>> 
>>> All three disks are from the SCSI2SD. I have attempted to make the
>> inquiry strings match the originals, as closely as possible. In the SCSI2SD
>> utility, I have the following config:
>>> 
>>> General page: all defaults, termination off (I have tried parity, scsi2
>> mode, and setting SCSI speed to sync, with no improvement)
>>> Device 1: enabled, ID 1, device Hard Drive, start sector 0, sector size
>> 512, sector count 18636800, vendor “DEC ", product “RZ40 “,
>> revision “ 6.0”, serial number 
>>> Device 2: enabled, ID 3, device Hard Drive, start sector 18636800,
>> sector size 512, sector count 18636800, vendor “DEC ", product “RZ40
>> “, revision “ 6.0”, serial number 
>>> Device 3: enabled, ID 4, device CDROM, start sector 37273600, sector
>> size 2048, sector count 148933, vendor “DEC ", product “RRD45“,
>> revision “ 6.0”, serial number 
>>> 
>>> I’ve also tried booting from a virtual CDROM, only, with no luck there,
>> either. In all cases, I get the following from SRM:
>>> 
>>>>>> test scsi
>>> T-STS-SCSI A - Data Trans test
>>> ? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
>>> T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 1 lun = 0
>>> 
>>> ? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
>>> T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 3 lun = 0
>>> 
>>> ? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
>>> T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 4 lun = 0
>>> ?? 002  SCSI 0x0008
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 84 FAIL
>>> 
>>> Does anyone have an idea what might be causing this? Has anyone tried a
>> v6 SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000?
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> - Alex
>> 
>> I picked up a couple v6 boards for my AlphaStation 200 4/233, but haven’t
>> tried to use them yet.
>> 
>> Are you using the onboard SCSI, or a SCSI board?  I’m ‘going to assume
>> you’ve tried a different cable, and to get it working from actual physical
>> drives?  Have you tried turning the termination on, on the board?  Is your
>> SCSI Bus Terminated?
>> 
>> You actually have RZ40’s in the system?  I’m asking as I’m not actually
>> familiar with that drive type, at least it’s not one I remember off the top
>> fo my head.  I usually use RZ29’s.  On my v5.2 board on my VAXstation
>> 4000/90 I think I went with basic 8GB drives, without a vendor string or
>> product string.

I have a Quantum XP2160 and a Seagate 1050 in my 3000. Both function, but have 
significant bearing whine, and I have no idea how many hours are on each. So, I 
know my scsi subsystem and termination are fine. I’m going to pull a scsi2sd 
v5.2 from a Quadra 700 and try that, to see if I get the same errors.

I used the RZ40 as the inquiry string, and matched the sector count, to make 
SRM happy. I have real RZ25s and RZ26es, but they are quite small. Most of my 
modern scsi disks are 10 and 15k U320s, and not a good choice for heat 
constrained enclosures like the 3000. Not to mention that 300gb is just silly 
for Digital UNIX.

- Alex

Re: SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000/300 - T-ERR-SCSI A

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

I was either sacrifice a data drive to make it a backup of the primary or
find a like drive first, get the system stable and then upgrade.  I have a
3000 too here if you want to work together to troubleshoot yours

Bill

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 9:46 AM Zane Healy via cctalk 
wrote:

> On Sep 26, 2021, at 12:22 AM, Alexander Jacocks via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> > I’ve got a DEC 3000/300 system that has some SCSI drives with aging
> bearings installed. I’d like to be able to start to migrate some of my
> systems, like this, to flash media, of some kind, as even my large
> repository of SCSI disks is starting to dry up.
> >
> > Here is my SRM level info:
> >DEC 3000 - M300
> > Digital Equipment Corporation
> > VPP PAL V5.56-80800101/OSF PAL V1.45-80800201 - Built on 30-SEP-1996
> 09:18:31.84
> >
> > As far as I have read, the SCSI2SD v6 2020 should be compatible with
> several varieties of DEC hardware, from the VAXen to the Alphas. However, I
> can’t seem to get anywhere useful with mine. I have the virtual disks
> configured as follows:
> >
> >>>> sh dev
> >
> >  BOOTDEV  ADDR  DEVTYPENUMBYTES RM/FXWPDEVNAM
>   REV
> >  ---    --- -----
>   ---
> >  ESA0 08-00-2B-3F-4C-9A , TENBT
> >  DKA100   A/1/0 DISK 9.54GB  FXRZ40
>6.0
> >  DKA300   A/3/0 DISK 9.54GB  FXRZ40
>6.0
> >  DKA400   A/4/0 RODISK 305.01MB  RM  WP    RRD45
> 6.0
> >
> > All three disks are from the SCSI2SD. I have attempted to make the
> inquiry strings match the originals, as closely as possible. In the SCSI2SD
> utility, I have the following config:
> >
> > General page: all defaults, termination off (I have tried parity, scsi2
> mode, and setting SCSI speed to sync, with no improvement)
> > Device 1: enabled, ID 1, device Hard Drive, start sector 0, sector size
> 512, sector count 18636800, vendor “DEC ", product “RZ40 “,
> revision “ 6.0”, serial number 
> > Device 2: enabled, ID 3, device Hard Drive, start sector 18636800,
> sector size 512, sector count 18636800, vendor “DEC ", product “RZ40
>  “, revision “ 6.0”, serial number 
> > Device 3: enabled, ID 4, device CDROM, start sector 37273600, sector
> size 2048, sector count 148933, vendor “DEC ", product “RRD45“,
> revision “ 6.0”, serial number 
> >
> > I’ve also tried booting from a virtual CDROM, only, with no luck there,
> either. In all cases, I get the following from SRM:
> >
> >>>> test scsi
> > T-STS-SCSI A - Data Trans test
> > ? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
> > T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 1 lun = 0
> >
> > ? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
> > T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 3 lun = 0
> >
> > ? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
> > T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 4 lun = 0
> > ?? 002  SCSI 0x0008
> >
> >
> >  84 FAIL
> >
> > Does anyone have an idea what might be causing this? Has anyone tried a
> v6 SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > - Alex
>
> I picked up a couple v6 boards for my AlphaStation 200 4/233, but haven’t
> tried to use them yet.
>
> Are you using the onboard SCSI, or a SCSI board?  I’m ‘going to assume
> you’ve tried a different cable, and to get it working from actual physical
> drives?  Have you tried turning the termination on, on the board?  Is your
> SCSI Bus Terminated?
>
> You actually have RZ40’s in the system?  I’m asking as I’m not actually
> familiar with that drive type, at least it’s not one I remember off the top
> fo my head.  I usually use RZ29’s.  On my v5.2 board on my VAXstation
> 4000/90 I think I went with basic 8GB drives, without a vendor string or
> product string.
>
>
>

Re: SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000/300 - T-ERR-SCSI A

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

On Sep 26, 2021, at 12:22 AM, Alexander Jacocks via cctalk 
 wrote:
> 
> I’ve got a DEC 3000/300 system that has some SCSI drives with aging bearings 
> installed. I’d like to be able to start to migrate some of my systems, like 
> this, to flash media, of some kind, as even my large repository of SCSI disks 
> is starting to dry up.
> 
> Here is my SRM level info:
>DEC 3000 - M300
> Digital Equipment Corporation
> VPP PAL V5.56-80800101/OSF PAL V1.45-80800201 - Built on 30-SEP-1996 
> 09:18:31.84
> 
> As far as I have read, the SCSI2SD v6 2020 should be compatible with several 
> varieties of DEC hardware, from the VAXen to the Alphas. However, I can’t 
> seem to get anywhere useful with mine. I have the virtual disks configured as 
> follows:
> 
>>>> sh dev
> 
>  BOOTDEV  ADDR  DEVTYPENUMBYTES RM/FXWPDEVNAM  REV
>  ---    --- -----  ---
>  ESA0 08-00-2B-3F-4C-9A , TENBT
>  DKA100   A/1/0 DISK 9.54GB  FXRZ40 
> 6.0
>  DKA300   A/3/0 DISK 9.54GB  FXRZ40 
> 6.0
>  DKA400   A/4/0 RODISK 305.01MB  RM  WPRRD45
> 6.0
> 
> All three disks are from the SCSI2SD. I have attempted to make the inquiry 
> strings match the originals, as closely as possible. In the SCSI2SD utility, 
> I have the following config:
> 
> General page: all defaults, termination off (I have tried parity, scsi2 mode, 
> and setting SCSI speed to sync, with no improvement)
> Device 1: enabled, ID 1, device Hard Drive, start sector 0, sector size 512, 
> sector count 18636800, vendor “DEC ", product “RZ40 “, revision “ 
> 6.0”, serial number 
> Device 2: enabled, ID 3, device Hard Drive, start sector 18636800, sector 
> size 512, sector count 18636800, vendor “DEC ", product “RZ40 “, 
> revision “ 6.0”, serial number 
> Device 3: enabled, ID 4, device CDROM, start sector 37273600, sector size 
> 2048, sector count 148933, vendor “DEC ", product “RRD45“, revision “ 
> 6.0”, serial number 
> 
> I’ve also tried booting from a virtual CDROM, only, with no luck there, 
> either. In all cases, I get the following from SRM:
> 
>>>> test scsi
> T-STS-SCSI A - Data Trans test  
> ? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
> T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 1 lun = 0
> 
> ? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
> T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 3 lun = 0
> 
> ? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
> T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 4 lun = 0
> ?? 002  SCSI 0x0008
> 
> 
>  84 FAIL
> 
> Does anyone have an idea what might be causing this? Has anyone tried a v6 
> SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000?
> 
> Thanks!
> - Alex

I picked up a couple v6 boards for my AlphaStation 200 4/233, but haven’t tried 
to use them yet.

Are you using the onboard SCSI, or a SCSI board?  I’m ‘going to assume you’ve 
tried a different cable, and to get it working from actual physical drives?  
Have you tried turning the termination on, on the board?  Is your SCSI Bus 
Terminated?

You actually have RZ40’s in the system?  I’m asking as I’m not actually 
familiar with that drive type, at least it’s not one I remember off the top fo 
my head.  I usually use RZ29’s.  On my v5.2 board on my VAXstation 4000/90 I 
think I went with basic 8GB drives, without a vendor string or product string.

SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000/300 - T-ERR-SCSI A

[Alexander Jacocks via cctalk]

I’ve got a DEC 3000/300 system that has some SCSI drives with aging bearings 
installed. I’d like to be able to start to migrate some of my systems, like 
this, to flash media, of some kind, as even my large repository of SCSI disks 
is starting to dry up.

Here is my SRM level info:
DEC 3000 - M300
Digital Equipment Corporation
 VPP PAL V5.56-80800101/OSF PAL V1.45-80800201 - Built on 30-SEP-1996 
09:18:31.84

As far as I have read, the SCSI2SD v6 2020 should be compatible with several 
varieties of DEC hardware, from the VAXen to the Alphas. However, I can’t seem 
to get anywhere useful with mine. I have the virtual disks configured as 
follows:

>>> sh dev

  BOOTDEV  ADDR  DEVTYPENUMBYTES RM/FXWPDEVNAM  REV
  ---    --- -----  ---
  ESA0 08-00-2B-3F-4C-9A , TENBT
  DKA100   A/1/0 DISK 9.54GB  FXRZ40 6.0
  DKA300   A/3/0 DISK 9.54GB  FXRZ40 6.0
  DKA400   A/4/0 RODISK 305.01MB  RM  WPRRD456.0

All three disks are from the SCSI2SD. I have attempted to make the inquiry 
strings match the originals, as closely as possible. In the SCSI2SD utility, I 
have the following config:

General page: all defaults, termination off (I have tried parity, scsi2 mode, 
and setting SCSI speed to sync, with no improvement)
Device 1: enabled, ID 1, device Hard Drive, start sector 0, sector size 512, 
sector count 18636800, vendor “DEC ", product “RZ40 “, revision “ 6.0”, 
serial number 
Device 2: enabled, ID 3, device Hard Drive, start sector 18636800, sector size 
512, sector count 18636800, vendor “DEC ", product “RZ40 “, revision “ 
6.0”, serial number 
Device 3: enabled, ID 4, device CDROM, start sector 37273600, sector size 2048, 
sector count 148933, vendor “DEC ", product “RRD45“, revision “ 6.0”, 
serial number 

I’ve also tried booting from a virtual CDROM, only, with no luck there, either. 
In all cases, I get the following from SRM:

>>> test scsi
T-STS-SCSI A - Data Trans test  
? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 1 lun = 0

? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 3 lun = 0

? T-ERR-SCSI A - Data Trans test - nondma/sync inq size miscompare
T-ERR-SCSI A - id = 4 lun = 0
?? 002  SCSI 0x0008


  84 FAIL

Does anyone have an idea what might be causing this? Has anyone tried a v6 
SCSI2SD in a DEC 3000?

Thanks!
- Alex

Re: SCSI2SD

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2021-05-21 16:41, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
> Does anyone have experience using a SCSI2SD board to replace a Hard Drive on 
> a VAXstation or an AlphaStation?  I’m thinking about using them on some of my 
> systems to reduce the amount of noise.  

Yes, I'm using the on my 4000/90's ...

Get nice SD cards, and big ones too. And format the first partion to be
less than 1GB. So you can simply "dd" ISO images for install there ...

> I’ve gotten used to a quiet office. :-)

Now you will have to climb under the desk to check if it runs. With the
rotating rust, it wasn't necessary, you knew all the time ;-)

> Zane
> 
> 
> 

RE: SCSI2SD

[Craig Ruff via cctalk]

I've also used a version 5.1 SCSI2SD on a VAXstation 4000/60 without problem.

Re: SCSI2SD

[John H. Reinhardt via cctalk]

On 5/22/2021 10:29 AM, Zane Healy wrote:

On May 21, 2021, at 5:15 PM, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk 
 wrote:


On 5/21/2021 3:41 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

Does anyone have experience using a SCSI2SD board to replace a Hard Drive on a 
VAXstation or an AlphaStation?  I’m thinking about using them on some of my 
systems to reduce the amount of noise.  I’ve gotten used to a quiet office. :-)

Zane





I've got a SCSI2SD V5 in my MicroVAX 3100 M95. It sits on the SCSI bus along 
with the CDrom drive and a couple of 18GB Compaq/Seagate drives.  I've also got 
a SCSI2SD V6 in each of my two AlphaSever DS10 systems.  I had a few issues 
with the MV and an earlier version of the V5 firmware, but the last few 
versions have been no trouble at all.

In the MV3100 I mounted the SCSI2SD on a 3.5" 3-D printed mount which is mounted on a 
3.5" to 5.25" mount and it's mounted in the front opening next to the CDROM drive.

In the DS10's the 3.5" 3-D printed mount is put in the floppy opening.


This is definitely good info John, how is the SCSI2SD performance on the 
DS10’s?  I’m pondering using either an AlphaStation 200 4/233 or a AlphaStation 
500/333 as a workstation, rather than my DEC PWS 433a or my Compaq XP1000/667, 
simply due to power usage, and heat generation.

I just placed an order for the initial 4 V5.2 boards I’ll need.  Once they have 
V6 boards back in stock, I’ll need to order a couple of those as well.  These 
should definitely help reduce heat, noise, and power consumption.

Zane




Zane,

  They perform adequately.  They are no speed demons for sure since they're basically a SCSI-2 
(there is a SCSI-2 Mode enable option) disk.  They go about as fast as most drives with a 50-pin 
interface do. It's been a while since I configured them but I'm sure I have them set to the fastest 
speed.  The SCSI2SD utility for V6 has a dropdown box with speed choices and mine are either set to 
"Synch, 10MB/s" or to "No Limit (safe)".

  Truthfully though I haven't used them in a while in the DS10's since I did an 
experiment with a P410 SmartArray card with two 256GB Samsung SSD's and it 
worked (and is still working).  The only downside to that is they have to be 
configured somewhere else since the Alpha MSA utility doesn't understand them.  
But once configured (both cards and SSD) then they work great.  The other 
downside is no boot support so I need to either boot from a normal SCSI drive 
or the SCSI2SD.  I've thought about the latter, but haven't tried it yet.  
Though I have booted from the SCSI2SD before.

  I'm pretty sure at some point I experimented with using HBVS between two 
SCSI2SD drives (partitions on the same SD since I only have one card in each 
system) and it worked.  But I can't find any notes so it might be something I 
intended to do but didn't.

Regards,
 John H. Reinhardt

Re: SCSI2SD

[Mark Matlock via cctalk]

>  wrote:

In this the weakest link would appear to be the SD Card.  As such it seems to 
me that the best solution would be to have 2 or more SCSI2SD?s in the device. 
I?m not sure what benefit would be achieved by using a single board to present 
multiple devices.  Unless of course you had a drive size limitation, or you?re 
trying to emulate something like 2GB or 4GB drives.  As an example, that would 
be handy for VAXen with a 1GB Boot Drive limitation.

-Zane


Zane,
   I am using SCSI2SD cards in a VAXstation 4000/90a, and in a MV3100-80 as 
well as 
an Alpha DS10. 

  In the two VAXes, I use two SCSI2SD cards, configured identically with a 
system drive and a 
user drive on class 10 16GB microSD cards.  So each microSD card has both the 
system drive 
and the user drive.

   Thus I can use VMS backup from one microSD card to another so that if one 
microSD card fails I can 
easily recover from it. So far I have not had hardware failures, but being able 
to recover from a 
bad software installation which has been VERY helpful.

Mark

Re: SCSI2SD

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 5/22/21 9:19 AM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:


In this the weakest link would appear to be the SD Card.  As such it seems to 
me that the best solution would be to have 2 or more SCSI2SD’s in the device.


There should be SMART support so you can see what the state of the card is, 
assuming your SD will push that information out through SPI

SD is not an SSD in that respect. People just live with the fact that an SD 
will just roll over and die without warning.

RE: SCSI2SD

[Ali via cctalk]

> In this the weakest link would appear to be the SD Card.  As such it
> seems to me that the best solution would be to have 2 or more SCSI2SD’s
> in the device. I’m not sure what benefit would be achieved by using a
> single board to present multiple devices.  Unless of course you had a
> drive size limitation, or you’re trying to emulate something like 2GB
> or 4GB drives.  As an example, that would be handy for VAXen with a 1GB
> Boot Drive limitation.


Agreed. I think it would just be a cost saving measure. You need to replace 2 
or more drives and don't want to buy multiple SCSI2SD boards. As for drive size 
limitation you can always get around that with partitioning and wasting the 
space on the rest of the card. 

-Ali

Re: SCSI2SD

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

On May 22, 2021, at 9:12 AM, Ali  wrote:
> 
>> I am wondering if anyone has used these to replace HDDs in RAID
>> configurations? My thought would be it should work fine as long as they
>> look like real HDD to the system but who knows?
> 
> Looking at the FAQ it looks like it does:
> 
> "Does SCSI2SD do ECC or mirroring ?
> 
> No. However, you can configure SCSI2SD as up to four devices and use whatever 
> RAID, data duplication, striping, or mirroring capabilities your equipment 
> supports."
> 
> In fact it looks like you can subdivide one card into four virtual drives and 
> do mirroring and RAID on one card. Kind of defeats the purpose but I guess it 
> can be a cheap solution to avoid having to buy multiple boards.
> 
> Now if they would make an UW version
> 
> -Ali

In this the weakest link would appear to be the SD Card.  As such it seems to 
me that the best solution would be to have 2 or more SCSI2SD’s in the device. 
I’m not sure what benefit would be achieved by using a single board to present 
multiple devices.  Unless of course you had a drive size limitation, or you’re 
trying to emulate something like 2GB or 4GB drives.  As an example, that would 
be handy for VAXen with a 1GB Boot Drive limitation.

Zane

RE: SCSI2SD

[Ali via cctalk]

> I am wondering if anyone has used these to replace HDDs in RAID
> configurations? My thought would be it should work fine as long as they
> look like real HDD to the system but who knows?

Looking at the FAQ it looks like it does:

"Does SCSI2SD do ECC or mirroring ?

No. However, you can configure SCSI2SD as up to four devices and use whatever 
RAID, data duplication, striping, or mirroring capabilities your equipment 
supports."

In fact it looks like you can subdivide one card into four virtual drives and 
do mirroring and RAID on one card. Kind of defeats the purpose but I guess it 
can be a cheap solution to avoid having to buy multiple boards.

Now if they would make an UW version

-Ali

Re: SCSI2SD

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

On May 22, 2021, at 8:35 AM, Ali  wrote:
> 
>> I just placed an order for the initial 4 V5.2 boards I’ll need.  Once
>> they have V6 boards back in stock, I’ll need to order a couple of those
>> as well.  These should definitely help reduce heat, noise, and power
>> consumption.
> 
> I am wondering if anyone has used these to replace HDDs in RAID 
> configurations? My thought would be it should work fine as long as they look 
> like real HDD to the system but who knows?
> 
> -Ali

That is a good question.  Since I’m primarily getting these for OpenVMS, one of 
the reasons I went with 4 boards to start is that I figure I can use Volume 
Shadowing on one of the systems.

I do wish that they offered UW-SCSI, and SCA SCSI options.

Zane

RE: SCSI2SD

[Ali via cctalk]

> I just placed an order for the initial 4 V5.2 boards I’ll need.  Once
> they have V6 boards back in stock, I’ll need to order a couple of those
> as well.  These should definitely help reduce heat, noise, and power
> consumption.

I am wondering if anyone has used these to replace HDDs in RAID configurations? 
My thought would be it should work fine as long as they look like real HDD to 
the system but who knows?

-Ali

Re: SCSI2SD

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

On May 21, 2021, at 5:15 PM, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk 
 wrote:
> 
> On 5/21/2021 3:41 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:
>> Does anyone have experience using a SCSI2SD board to replace a Hard Drive on 
>> a VAXstation or an AlphaStation?  I’m thinking about using them on some of 
>> my systems to reduce the amount of noise.  I’ve gotten used to a quiet 
>> office. :-)
>> 
>> Zane
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> I've got a SCSI2SD V5 in my MicroVAX 3100 M95. It sits on the SCSI bus along 
> with the CDrom drive and a couple of 18GB Compaq/Seagate drives.  I've also 
> got a SCSI2SD V6 in each of my two AlphaSever DS10 systems.  I had a few 
> issues with the MV and an earlier version of the V5 firmware, but the last 
> few versions have been no trouble at all.
> 
> In the MV3100 I mounted the SCSI2SD on a 3.5" 3-D printed mount which is 
> mounted on a 3.5" to 5.25" mount and it's mounted in the front opening next 
> to the CDROM drive.
> 
> In the DS10's the 3.5" 3-D printed mount is put in the floppy opening.

This is definitely good info John, how is the SCSI2SD performance on the 
DS10’s?  I’m pondering using either an AlphaStation 200 4/233 or a AlphaStation 
500/333 as a workstation, rather than my DEC PWS 433a or my Compaq XP1000/667, 
simply due to power usage, and heat generation.

I just placed an order for the initial 4 V5.2 boards I’ll need.  Once they have 
V6 boards back in stock, I’ll need to order a couple of those as well.  These 
should definitely help reduce heat, noise, and power consumption.

Zane

Re: SCSI2SD

[John H. Reinhardt via cctalk]

On 5/21/2021 3:41 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

Does anyone have experience using a SCSI2SD board to replace a Hard Drive on a 
VAXstation or an AlphaStation?  I’m thinking about using them on some of my 
systems to reduce the amount of noise.  I’ve gotten used to a quiet office. :-)

Zane





I've got a SCSI2SD V5 in my MicroVAX 3100 M95. It sits on the SCSI bus along 
with the CDrom drive and a couple of 18GB Compaq/Seagate drives.  I've also got 
a SCSI2SD V6 in each of my two AlphaSever DS10 systems.  I had a few issues 
with the MV and an earlier version of the V5 firmware, but the last few 
versions have been no trouble at all.

In the MV3100 I mounted the SCSI2SD on a 3.5" 3-D printed mount which is mounted on a 
3.5" to 5.25" mount and it's mounted in the front opening next to the CDROM drive.

In the DS10's the 3.5" 3-D printed mount is put in the floppy opening.

--
John H. Reinhardt
  PRRT  #8909
  C HS  #11530
  N-Trak   #7566

Re: SCSI2SD

[Adrian Graham via cctalk]

I know a lot of folk using SCSI2SD in VAXen with great success, and now
there's a new kid on the block that was originally for the Sharp X68000 but
is currently being heavily tested on 68K Macs and I see no reason why it
shouldn't work on low-end VAXen too. I'll be ordering one soon to try.

Home · akuker/RASCSI Wiki · GitHub <https://github.com/akuker/RASCSI/wiki>
<https://github.com/akuker/RASCSI/wiki>
-- 
Adrian Graham
Owner of Binary Dinosaurs, the UK's biggest private home computer
collection?
t: @binarydinosaursf: facebook.com/binarydinosaurs
w: www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk


On Fri, 21 May 2021 at 21:41, Zane Healy via cctalk 
wrote:

> Does anyone have experience using a SCSI2SD board to replace a Hard Drive
> on a VAXstation or an AlphaStation?  I’m thinking about using them on some
> of my systems to reduce the amount of noise.  I’ve gotten used to a quiet
> office. :-)
>
> Zane
>
>
>
>

Re: SCSI2SD

[Eric Dittman via cctalk]

On 5/21/21 3:41 PM, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

Does anyone have experience using a SCSI2SD board to replace a Hard Drive on a 
VAXstation or an AlphaStation?  I’m thinking about using them on some of my 
systems to reduce the amount of noise.  I’ve gotten used to a quiet office. :-)


I've used one on a VS4000/VLC.  I didn't have any issues.
--
Eric Dittman

RE: SCSI2SD

[Dave Wade G4UGM via cctalk]

Zane,

I have one in a VaxStation. To be honest I can't remember which Vaxstation. I 
think it was the 3100/30 because it will only boot from a 1Gb or less drive and 
the SCSI2SD allows a lot of different config options.
Of course, there are lots of different Vaxstations with different SCSI 
hardware. There are many different SCSI2SD as well.
So as usual, "Your Milage might vary" 

Dave


> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Zane Healy via
> cctalk
> Sent: 21 May 2021 21:41
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: SCSI2SD
> 
> Does anyone have experience using a SCSI2SD board to replace a Hard Drive
> on a VAXstation or an AlphaStation?  I’m thinking about using them on some
> of my systems to reduce the amount of noise.  I’ve gotten used to a quiet
> office. :-)
> 
> Zane
> 
> 

SCSI2SD

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

Does anyone have experience using a SCSI2SD board to replace a Hard Drive on a 
VAXstation or an AlphaStation?  I’m thinking about using them on some of my 
systems to reduce the amount of noise.  I’ve gotten used to a quiet office. :-)

Zane

Re: SCSI2SD & Amiga's

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

What version of the SCSD2SD V5 do you have?  The V5.1 was reworked to 
boot faster (so claims the site here 
<http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php/SCSI2SD#Which_version_should_you_buy_.3F> 
) and the V6 boots even faster I believe.


No idea, I will look someday when I pull it back out :-)

Was working on an IMSAI system currently.. then going to re-battery NeXT.

- Ethan

Re: SCSI2SD & Amiga's

[John H. Reinhardt via cctalk]

On 7/7/2020 2:57 PM, Zane Healy wrote:

On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:24 PM, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk 
 wrote:


On 7/7/2020 1:02 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote:

I run a SCSI2SD on my A2500 with whatever SCSI card it has by default. The only 
issue that I have is the SCSI2SD boots slower than the Amiga, so when I power 
on the Amiga I have to wait a few seconds then do the A+A+Control reboot three 
finger salute (or whatever it is.) Before it's ready the Amiga just sits at a 
white screen forever, but after a reboot the SCSI2SD is ready and it boots fine.


What version of the SCSD2SD V5 do you have?  The V5.1 was reworked to boot faster (so 
claims the site here 
<http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php/SCSI2SD#Which_version_should_you_buy_.3F>
 ) and the V6 boots even faster I believe.


I was wondering about this myself.


It would be nice if the SCSI2SD was mounted on a expansion cover plate though, 
with the LEDs visible and the SD card accessible externally.


That's how I them mounted in my MicroVAX 3100 and AlphaServer DS10.  On the Alphaserver I bought 
the 3.5" bracket and replaced the floppy disk with it.  On the MicroVAX I used the same 
3.5" bracket and mounted it in a 5.25" to 3.5" bracket with a homemade baseplate.

SCSI2SD mounting bracket: 
<https://store.inertialcomputing.com/product-p/scsi2sd-v5.1-v6-bracket-black.htm>


Is Inertial Computing a good place to buy from?  I was looking at their 
website.  It looks like the latest v6 might be the way to go for Amiga, VAX, 
and Alpha.  With v5.1 making more sense for my PDP-11/73, due to cost, it’s not 
like I’m going to get 10MB/sec on a Q-Bus backplane. :-)

Zane




They are.  I bought from them just a month and a half ago - the replacement for the 
"Drilled" board plus another for my PDP-11/xx (53/73/83 depending on which CPU 
board I feel like using) and it was delivered in 3 days despite shipping from CA to TX in 
these COVID limited days.

I haven't tested but you're probably right in that a V5.1 is probably good for 
a PDP QBUS SCSI card.

--
John H. Reinhardt

Re: SCSI2SD & Amiga's (was: About to dump a bunch of Compaq SCSC...)

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

> On Jul 7, 2020, at 11:02 AM, Ethan O'Toole  wrote:

> Extra FRIGGIN awesome is I can pull the SD card out, shove it in a Win10 
> laptop and boot the same OS on WinUAE... copy stuff on, pull SD card out 
> stuff it back in the physical system and go.

I’ll need to read up on doing this with FS-UAE, as I have to start from scratch 
with my Amiga 3000, since I’ve obviously lost everything.  I use a Mac, so 
WinUAE isn’t an option.  

I also have a pair of IDE-to-CF adapters that I need to install in my Amiga 600 
and Amiga 1200.

Zane

Re: SCSI2SD & Amiga's

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

On Jul 7, 2020, at 12:24 PM, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk 
 wrote:
> 
> On 7/7/2020 1:02 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote:
>> I run a SCSI2SD on my A2500 with whatever SCSI card it has by default. The 
>> only issue that I have is the SCSI2SD boots slower than the Amiga, so when I 
>> power on the Amiga I have to wait a few seconds then do the A+A+Control 
>> reboot three finger salute (or whatever it is.) Before it's ready the Amiga 
>> just sits at a white screen forever, but after a reboot the SCSI2SD is ready 
>> and it boots fine.
>> 
> What version of the SCSD2SD V5 do you have?  The V5.1 was reworked to boot 
> faster (so claims the site here 
> <http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php/SCSI2SD#Which_version_should_you_buy_.3F>
>  ) and the V6 boots even faster I believe.

I was wondering about this myself.

>> It would be nice if the SCSI2SD was mounted on a expansion cover plate 
>> though, with the LEDs visible and the SD card accessible externally.
>> 
> That's how I them mounted in my MicroVAX 3100 and AlphaServer DS10.  On the 
> Alphaserver I bought the 3.5" bracket and replaced the floppy disk with it.  
> On the MicroVAX I used the same 3.5" bracket and mounted it in a 5.25" to 
> 3.5" bracket with a homemade baseplate.
> 
> SCSI2SD mounting bracket: 
> <https://store.inertialcomputing.com/product-p/scsi2sd-v5.1-v6-bracket-black.htm>

Is Inertial Computing a good place to buy from?  I was looking at their 
website.  It looks like the latest v6 might be the way to go for Amiga, VAX, 
and Alpha.  With v5.1 making more sense for my PDP-11/73, due to cost, it’s not 
like I’m going to get 10MB/sec on a Q-Bus backplane. :-)

Zane

Re: SCSI2SD & Amiga's

[John H. Reinhardt via cctalk]

On 7/7/2020 2:24 PM, John H. Reinhardt via cctalk wrote:

On 7/7/2020 1:02 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote:

Am I correct that a v5.1 SCSI2SD should work just fine?  Anything I need to be 
aware of?


I run a SCSI2SD on my A2500 with whatever SCSI card it has by default. The only 
issue that I have is the SCSI2SD boots slower than the Amiga, so when I power 
on the Amiga I have to wait a few seconds then do the A+A+Control reboot three 
finger salute (or whatever it is.) Before it's ready the Amiga just sits at a 
white screen forever, but after a reboot the SCSI2SD is ready and it boots fine.


What version of the SCSD2SD V5 do you have?  The V5.1 was reworked to boot faster (so 
claims the site here 
<http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php/SCSI2SD#Which_version_should_you_buy_.3F>
 ) and the V6 boots even faster I believe.

Extra FRIGGIN awesome is I can pull the SD card out, shove it in a Win10 laptop 
and boot the same OS on WinUAE... copy stuff on, pull SD card out stuff it back 
in the physical system and go.

It would be nice if the SCSI2SD was mounted on a expansion cover plate though, 
with the LEDs visible and the SD card accessible externally.



That's how I them mounted in my MicroVAX 3100 and AlphaServer DS10.  On the Alphaserver I bought 
the 3.5" bracket and replaced the floppy disk with it.  On the MicroVAX I used the same 
3.5" bracket and mounted it in a 5.25" to 3.5" bracket with a homemade baseplate.


SCSI2SD mounting bracket: 
<https://store.inertialcomputing.com/product-p/scsi2sd-v5.1-v6-bracket-black.htm>

StarTech 3.5" to 5.35" mount <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HLZXH2>




 -- : Ethan O'Toole





Oh, I drilled a hole (1/4") through the SCSI2SD mounting bracket and mounted a 
LED wired to the holes on the PC board. Pro tip: Remove the SCSI2SD card from the 
bracket before drilling so that when the drill breaks though it doesn't zip in and 
chew off a couple of the SMD resistors and capacitors... Don't ask me how I know. :-P

--
John H. Reinhardt

Re: SCSI2SD & Amiga's

[John H. Reinhardt via cctalk]

On 7/7/2020 1:02 PM, Ethan O'Toole via cctalk wrote:

Am I correct that a v5.1 SCSI2SD should work just fine?  Anything I need to be 
aware of?


I run a SCSI2SD on my A2500 with whatever SCSI card it has by default. The only 
issue that I have is the SCSI2SD boots slower than the Amiga, so when I power 
on the Amiga I have to wait a few seconds then do the A+A+Control reboot three 
finger salute (or whatever it is.) Before it's ready the Amiga just sits at a 
white screen forever, but after a reboot the SCSI2SD is ready and it boots fine.


What version of the SCSD2SD V5 do you have?  The V5.1 was reworked to boot faster (so 
claims the site here 
<http://www.codesrc.com/mediawiki/index.php/SCSI2SD#Which_version_should_you_buy_.3F>
 ) and the V6 boots even faster I believe.

Extra FRIGGIN awesome is I can pull the SD card out, shove it in a Win10 laptop 
and boot the same OS on WinUAE... copy stuff on, pull SD card out stuff it back 
in the physical system and go.

It would be nice if the SCSI2SD was mounted on a expansion cover plate though, 
with the LEDs visible and the SD card accessible externally.



That's how I them mounted in my MicroVAX 3100 and AlphaServer DS10.  On the Alphaserver I bought 
the 3.5" bracket and replaced the floppy disk with it.  On the MicroVAX I used the same 
3.5" bracket and mounted it in a 5.25" to 3.5" bracket with a homemade baseplate.


SCSI2SD mounting bracket: 
<https://store.inertialcomputing.com/product-p/scsi2sd-v5.1-v6-bracket-black.htm>

StarTech 3.5" to 5.35" mount <https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HLZXH2>




 -- : Ethan O'Toole




--
John H. Reinhardt

Re: SCSI2SD & Amiga's (was: About to dump a bunch of Compaq SCSC...)

[emanuel stiebler via cctalk]

On 2020-07-07 13:46, Zane Healy via cctalk wrote:

> Am I correct that a v5.1 SCSI2SD should work just fine?  Anything I need to 
> be aware of?
> 
> I’ve been interested in these for ages, in part as a way to have quieter 
> systems, but have never purchased one.

Not completely to the subject, but I got some of those, and they work
nicely on my VAXStation 4000/90, where most other designs failed.

Watch for Asia copies of the version 5, go for the "original" 6 from the
guy who made it.

Just a little trick I use a lot:

take a nice big/fast SD_CARD, and partiton it with the first partition
of 1GByte, the others to your liking.

So you can simply dd your install media on a pc to the sd-card,
and install on the real machine from device id0 ...

Cheers

Re: SCSI2SD & Amiga's (was: About to dump a bunch of Compaq SCSC...)

[Ethan O'Toole via cctalk]

Am I correct that a v5.1 SCSI2SD should work just fine?  Anything I need 
to be aware of?


I run a SCSI2SD on my A2500 with whatever SCSI card it has by default. The 
only issue that I have is the SCSI2SD boots slower than the Amiga, so when 
I power on the Amiga I have to wait a few seconds then do the A+A+Control 
reboot three finger salute (or whatever it is.) Before it's ready the 
Amiga just sits at a white screen forever, but after a reboot the SCSI2SD 
is ready and it boots fine.


Extra FRIGGIN awesome is I can pull the SD card out, shove it in a Win10 
laptop and boot the same OS on WinUAE... copy stuff on, pull SD card out 
stuff it back in the physical system and go.


It would be nice if the SCSI2SD was mounted on a expansion cover plate 
though, with the LEDs visible and the SD card accessible externally.




 -- : 
Ethan O'Toole

SCSI2SD & Amiga's (was: About to dump a bunch of Compaq SCSC...)

[Zane Healy via cctalk]

On Jul 7, 2020, at 7:48 AM, Liam Proven via cctalk  
wrote:
> 
> I would also suggest advertising or offering these online. Vintage Mac
> collectors, as well as all manner of vintage UNIX box collectors, are
> finding it increasingly difficult to find SCSI drives these days. Some
> are happy to go with SCSI2SD but for others it lacks authenticity, or
> they want the speeds, noises etc. too.

Some of us with a good stash of physical drives are contemplating going with 
SCSI2SD.  This last week I’ve been dealing with two Amiga 3000’s.  In both 
cases the original Quantum Fireball drives still work (though the one on my 
main system is noisy and was formatted before I got it ~23 years ago).  The 
oddball IBM(?) drive I used as a system disk is apparently dead, so I’m 
thinking SCSI2SD is the way to go.

Am I correct that a v5.1 SCSI2SD should work just fine?  Anything I need to be 
aware of?

I’ve been interested in these for ages, in part as a way to have quieter 
systems, but have never purchased one.

Zane

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Alexander Schreiber via cctalk]

On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 11:37:49AM -0400, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:
> I've used the SCSI2SD with great success with vintage DEC computers.
> On QBUS machines, both vax and pdp-11, it has worked with Emulex UC07, TD
> systems Viking, Andromeda SCDC and the DEC RQZX1 controllers.
> I have used it on native SCSI controllers in VAX 3100, VLC 4000 and 64 bit
> ALPHA machines.
> 
> The only other point I would make is that you need a linux system with a
> SCSI controller to move data in/out of the SCSI2SD.  I am using a 64 bit
> Debian system and I found that the 32 bit SCSI2SD utility wouldn't run on
> the 64 bit machine and needed to be recompiled.  However, I still use a
> Windows 7 computer to setup the SCSI2Sd via USB.

That is most likely due to missing libraries. On a 64 bit Linux system,
by default only 64 bit libraries are installed (duh), but usually you
can install 32 bit libraries to support 32 bit binaries. Exactly how
to go about it of course depends on your distribution.

Kind regards,
   Alex.

> On 3/18/2019 10:15 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote:
> > What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
> > SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this
> > list. I am curious about how well it works and which version to get.
> > 
> > Versions up to 5 seem to be GPLed and reasonably available. V6 does not
> > seem to have schematics or boards open sourced and I haven't seen a
> > supplier for them. The web page lists some sources, but they don't have the
> > V6 available.
> > 
> > It looks like the V6 is not open because someone used the design without
> > following the GPL.
> > 
> > V6 claims synchronous transfers, but I don't think most of my hardware
> > supports it. That consists of VAXstations and qbus scsi cards. If I was
> > after speed I wouldn't be using old hardware, but the speed has to be
> > consistent with the era.
> > 
> > Chuck
> 

-- 
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and
 looks like work."  -- Thomas A. Edison

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Jerry Weiss via cctalk]

The system I use (OSX) to mange the SCSI2SD cards configuration and 
firmware doesn't have a SCSI.  I'd think of it more as a "nice to have" 
than a requirement.  The V6 cards allow data exchange via USB2.


If you have the appropriate images, you can just DD the data directly to 
the microSD cards on OSX and Linux.  I move and backup images for RT11,  
XXDP,  NeXT (Intel and 68K),  SunSparc, Linux and VMS this way.  The V5 
cards have shown themselves to be quite versatile in my shop.


   Jerry




On 3/20/19 10:37 AM, Douglas Taylor via cctalk wrote:

I've used the SCSI2SD with great success with vintage DEC computers.
On QBUS machines, both vax and pdp-11, it has worked with Emulex UC07, 
TD systems Viking, Andromeda SCDC and the DEC RQZX1 controllers.
I have used it on native SCSI controllers in VAX 3100, VLC 4000 and 64 
bit ALPHA machines.


The only other point I would make is that you need a linux system with 
a SCSI controller to move data in/out of the SCSI2SD.  I am using a 64 
bit Debian system and I found that the 32 bit SCSI2SD utility wouldn't 
run on the 64 bit machine and needed to be recompiled.  However, I 
still use a Windows 7 computer to setup the SCSI2Sd via USB.


Doug

On 3/18/2019 10:15 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote:

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Douglas Taylor via cctalk]

I've used the SCSI2SD with great success with vintage DEC computers.
On QBUS machines, both vax and pdp-11, it has worked with Emulex UC07, 
TD systems Viking, Andromeda SCDC and the DEC RQZX1 controllers.
I have used it on native SCSI controllers in VAX 3100, VLC 4000 and 64 
bit ALPHA machines.


The only other point I would make is that you need a linux system with a 
SCSI controller to move data in/out of the SCSI2SD.  I am using a 64 bit 
Debian system and I found that the 32 bit SCSI2SD utility wouldn't run 
on the 64 bit machine and needed to be recompiled.  However, I still use 
a Windows 7 computer to setup the SCSI2Sd via USB.


Doug

On 3/18/2019 10:15 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote:

What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this
list. I am curious about how well it works and which version to get.

Versions up to 5 seem to be GPLed and reasonably available. V6 does not
seem to have schematics or boards open sourced and I haven't seen a
supplier for them. The web page lists some sources, but they don't have the
V6 available.

It looks like the V6 is not open because someone used the design without
following the GPL.

V6 claims synchronous transfers, but I don't think most of my hardware
supports it. That consists of VAXstations and qbus scsi cards. If I was
after speed I wouldn't be using old hardware, but the speed has to be
consistent with the era.

Chuck

RE: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

They are very particular, and you need to be careful. I have one in DVD drive 
and it won't work with normal single ended SCSI only LVD.

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of TeoZ via cctalk
> Sent: 19 March 2019 20:29
> To: Chuck Guzis ; General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-
> Topic Posts 
> Subject: Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?
> 
> Those are ATAPI to SCSI.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 3:38 PM
> To: Rico Pajarola via cctalk
> Subject: Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?
> 
> FWIW, there are a couple of Addonics AEC7722 adapters (SCSI-to-IDE)
> selling for $50-70 on eBay.   Don't know a thing about them, though.
> 
> --Chuck
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[TeoZ via cctalk]

Those are ATAPI to SCSI.

-Original Message- 
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk 
Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2019 3:38 PM 
To: Rico Pajarola via cctalk 
Subject: Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try? 


FWIW, there are a couple of Addonics AEC7722 adapters (SCSI-to-IDE)
selling for $50-70 on eBay.   Don't know a thing about them, though.

--Chuck

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

FWIW, there are a couple of Addonics AEC7722 adapters (SCSI-to-IDE)
selling for $50-70 on eBay.   Don't know a thing about them, though.

--Chuck

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Rico Pajarola via cctalk]

Is it perfect? No.

Is it worth a try? Absolutely!

I have both V5 and V6 and they work very well "most of the time". Some
machines just don't like them (usually in the form of frequent bus resets).
Some machines work better with the V5 and others better with the V6, and
sometimes settings need to be tweaked, but overall I am very happy with
them. I use them mostly as a CD-ROM replacement for installing the OS, and
it saves enormous amounts of time and CD-Rs. Speed is definitely not an
issue.






On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 3:16 AM Charles Dickman via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
> SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this
> list. I am curious about how well it works and which version to get.
>
> Versions up to 5 seem to be GPLed and reasonably available. V6 does not
> seem to have schematics or boards open sourced and I haven't seen a
> supplier for them. The web page lists some sources, but they don't have the
> V6 available.
>
> It looks like the V6 is not open because someone used the design without
> following the GPL.
>
> V6 claims synchronous transfers, but I don't think most of my hardware
> supports it. That consists of VAXstations and qbus scsi cards. If I was
> after speed I wouldn't be using old hardware, but the speed has to be
> consistent with the era.
>
> Chuck
>

RE: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Sophie Haskins via cctalk]

I've had pretty great luck with using SCSI2SDs in my various mostly-90s 
workstations (https://blog.pizzabox.computer/, among a few others). In a few 
cases (VAXstation 4000 VLC, Quadra 610) you need to put the settings to emulate 
a "real" model of drive, but otherwise compatibility has been pretty good.

Someone later in the thread mentioned tape support - I haven't used it, but the 
configuration utility has the option to set a given SCSI ID to present itself 
as a tape drive. I have a feeling I'm gonna need to explore this when I get 
around to trying to get my Sun 3/80 running...

Sophie
 
-Original Message-
From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Charles Dickman via 
cctalk
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2019 10:16 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Subject: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this list. 
I am curious about how well it works and which version to get.

Versions up to 5 seem to be GPLed and reasonably available. V6 does not seem to 
have schematics or boards open sourced and I haven't seen a supplier for them. 
The web page lists some sources, but they don't have the
V6 available.

It looks like the V6 is not open because someone used the design without 
following the GPL.

V6 claims synchronous transfers, but I don't think most of my hardware supports 
it. That consists of VAXstations and qbus scsi cards. If I was after speed I 
wouldn't be using old hardware, but the speed has to be consistent with the era.

Chuck

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

  
  
  

I’m using v5.1 on a PDP-11/23 with an Emulex UC07 and it works well. I 
haven’t tried it on any other systems though. 



Get Outlook for iOS

  




On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 4:32 AM -0400, "Sven Schnelle via cctalk" 
 wrote:










Hi,

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:15:48PM -0400, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote:
> What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
> SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this
> list. I am curious about how well it works and which version to get.

I own the V6 of this thing, and mostly used it with my HP9000/300 systems. In
the beginning i had some trouble with HP-UX running from it, but there were
some updates in the source repo end of last year which fixed these issues.

I never had a V5, so i can't compare.

> Versions up to 5 seem to be GPLed and reasonably available. V6 does not
> seem to have schematics or boards open sourced and I haven't seen a
> supplier for them. The web page lists some sources, but they don't have the
> V6 available.
> 
> It looks like the V6 is not open because someone used the design without
> following the GPL.

It's partly open-source. The source code for the ST micro controller is open,
but the FPGA part not. Only a binary blob is in the source repository.

Regards
Sven

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Sven Schnelle via cctalk]

Hi,

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 10:15:48PM -0400, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote:
> What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
> SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this
> list. I am curious about how well it works and which version to get.

I own the V6 of this thing, and mostly used it with my HP9000/300 systems. In
the beginning i had some trouble with HP-UX running from it, but there were
some updates in the source repo end of last year which fixed these issues.

I never had a V5, so i can't compare.

> Versions up to 5 seem to be GPLed and reasonably available. V6 does not
> seem to have schematics or boards open sourced and I haven't seen a
> supplier for them. The web page lists some sources, but they don't have the
> V6 available.
> 
> It looks like the V6 is not open because someone used the design without
> following the GPL.

It's partly open-source. The source code for the ST micro controller is open,
but the FPGA part not. Only a binary blob is in the source repository.

Regards
Sven

RE: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Charles Dickman
> via cctalk
> Sent: 19 March 2019 02:16
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?
> 
> What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
> SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this 
> list. I
> am curious about how well it works and which version to get.

I a pre-V6 one for my Atari but have never used it in the Atari. 
It is now in my IBM PC Server but its only used for backup.
Its in a single ended SCSI-1 card and its noticeably slower than the fast/wide 
spinning disks in the RAID array.

> 
> Versions up to 5 seem to be GPLed and reasonably available. V6 does not
> seem to have schematics or boards open sourced and I haven't seen a
> supplier for them. The web page lists some sources, but they don't have the
> V6 available.
> 

V5 is GPL and the guy who built it was more than willing to talk about the code.
I was wondering about adding tape support but he says that’s harder than you 
think...

> It looks like the V6 is not open because someone used the design without
> following the GPL.
> 

Yes, Chinese vendors...

> V6 claims synchronous transfers, but I don't think most of my hardware
> supports it. That consists of VAXstations and qbus scsi cards. If I was after
> speed I wouldn't be using old hardware, but the speed has to be consistent
> with the era.
> 

I think a lot of hardware supports synchronous transfers. I think for me it was 
the narrow/wide that slowed it down.

> Chuck

Dave

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[John H. Reinhardt via cctalk]

On 3/18/2019 9:15 PM, Charles Dickman via cctalk wrote:

What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this
list. I am curious about how well it works and which version to get.

Versions up to 5 seem to be GPLed and reasonably available. V6 does not
seem to have schematics or boards open sourced and I haven't seen a
supplier for them. The web page lists some sources, but they don't have the
V6 available.

It looks like the V6 is not open because someone used the design without
following the GPL.

V6 claims synchronous transfers, but I don't think most of my hardware
supports it. That consists of VAXstations and qbus scsi cards. If I was
after speed I wouldn't be using old hardware, but the speed has to be
consistent with the era.

Chuck


I've had mixed success.  Neither a V5.1 nor a V6.03 worked with my MicroVAX 
3100 M95, it's built in SCSI interface and OpenVMS V7.3.  Light access worked 
but as soon as you tried any kind of actual work it threw hoards of mount 
verification messages and errors piled up and became unusuable.

On the other hand, the V5.1 worked terrific on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10 with 
a Qlogic ISP1020 SCSI card and OpenVMS V8.4

Others have had success with MicroVAXen and V7.3 and earlier so I think it's my 
system, but I haven't had time to work it out yet.

--
John H. Reinhardt
  PRRT  #8909
  C HS  #11530
  N-Trak   #7566

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Cameron Kaiser via cctalk]

> What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
> SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this
> list. I am curious about how well it works and which version to get.

Depends on the machine and the OS. Worked well in a PowerBook with MacOS,
but NetBSD on my IIci threw all kinds of problems with it. Works great in
my Solbourne S3000, but opened the SCSI fuse on my rare PowerBook "800."

I don't know if v6 is appreciably better. Most of my experience is with v5.
Odds are it will work but it's not a panacea, nor (in fairness) is it sold
as one.

Some observations in more detail:

https://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2018/11/and-now-for-something-completely.html

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Apathetic dyslexic agnostic: "I don't care if there's a dog" ---

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

On 3/18/19 7:22 PM, Josh Dersch via cctalk wrote:

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 7:16 PM Charles Dickman via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this
list. I am curious about how well it works and which version to get.

Versions up to 5 seem to be GPLed and reasonably available. V6 does not
seem to have schematics or boards open sourced and I haven't seen a
supplier for them. The web page lists some sources, but they don't have the
V6 available.

It looks like the V6 is not open because someone used the design without
following the GPL.

V6 claims synchronous transfers, but I don't think most of my hardware
supports it. That consists of VAXstations and qbus scsi cards. If I was
after speed I wouldn't be using old hardware, but the speed has to be
consistent with the era.

Chuck


I've been using the V5 boards in a variety of systems for a few years now
-- VAX (micro-and-otherwise), PDP-11 (via the usual Emulex and CMD
controllers), Sun-2 and Sun-3 workstations, HP/Apollo 400 systems, a
Symbolics XL1200, various old Macintosh systems and probably some other
things I've forgotten.  At LCM+L we're using them in our VAX-11/785 and
730, and we're using a V6 in our 7000-640.  I've had very few issues and
the developer has been very responsive to bug reports (though I'll admit
it's been a couple of years since I've had to report one).

The V5 is plenty fast for most vintage gear, I don't think they come close
to hitting the max throughput.  That's what I'd recommend for the systems
you're talking about.

- Josh

I have only used the V5 boards. I have not tried them on as many systems as
Josh, but otherwise I have had similar position experiences using them. 
I have

been using them on sun4c and sun4m systems.

alan

Re: SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 7:16 PM Charles Dickman via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
> SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this
> list. I am curious about how well it works and which version to get.
>
> Versions up to 5 seem to be GPLed and reasonably available. V6 does not
> seem to have schematics or boards open sourced and I haven't seen a
> supplier for them. The web page lists some sources, but they don't have the
> V6 available.
>
> It looks like the V6 is not open because someone used the design without
> following the GPL.
>
> V6 claims synchronous transfers, but I don't think most of my hardware
> supports it. That consists of VAXstations and qbus scsi cards. If I was
> after speed I wouldn't be using old hardware, but the speed has to be
> consistent with the era.
>
> Chuck
>

I've been using the V5 boards in a variety of systems for a few years now
-- VAX (micro-and-otherwise), PDP-11 (via the usual Emulex and CMD
controllers), Sun-2 and Sun-3 workstations, HP/Apollo 400 systems, a
Symbolics XL1200, various old Macintosh systems and probably some other
things I've forgotten.  At LCM+L we're using them in our VAX-11/785 and
730, and we're using a V6 in our 7000-640.  I've had very few issues and
the developer has been very responsive to bug reports (though I'll admit
it's been a couple of years since I've had to report one).

The V5 is plenty fast for most vintage gear, I don't think they come close
to hitting the max throughput.  That's what I'd recommend for the systems
you're talking about.

- Josh

SCSI2SD: Is it worth a try?

[Charles Dickman via cctalk]

What is the experience with the SCSI2SD with old computers? It looks to be
SCSI-1 and SCSI-2 compatible and I see a lot of reports of usage on this
list. I am curious about how well it works and which version to get.

Versions up to 5 seem to be GPLed and reasonably available. V6 does not
seem to have schematics or boards open sourced and I haven't seen a
supplier for them. The web page lists some sources, but they don't have the
V6 available.

It looks like the V6 is not open because someone used the design without
following the GPL.

V6 claims synchronous transfers, but I don't think most of my hardware
supports it. That consists of VAXstations and qbus scsi cards. If I was
after speed I wouldn't be using old hardware, but the speed has to be
consistent with the era.

Chuck

Fwd: Sun 3 with SCSI2SD

[Earl Baugh via cctalk]

Howdy,

Wondering if anyone has used a SCSI2SD card with a Sun 3 class machine. I
know Walter B has had success with the Sun 2( that’s next on my list after
I get the Sun 3/110 working with one. )

I have some Version 5 of the card. (I also have a version 3 card that I
tried long ago, with little success). The new current firmware is much more
understandable in terms of setting it up.
However with a known good image ( obtained from Walter B) I can’t get it to
go past the message “Waiting for disk to spin up...”
followed by “Please start it, if necessary , — OR — press a key to quit.”

I know the card doesn’t need to spin up  so question is, what is the boot
prom waiting for? I expect it’s just something off in my config but so far
everything I’ve tried yields the same result.

Anybody have a config.xml that works that they could share? ( and which
firmware version  it works with? )

Thanks

Earl



Sent from my iPhone

RE: SCSI2SD on VMS 5.4

[Kevin Lee via cctalk]

[https://tr.cloudmagic.com/h/v6/emailtag/tag/2.0/1552733316/85fc1846b5a972615d38b2f05dda8e74/9/f2d01fea9c6166636e0551859eb61c40/1fa4b1eaccd350d763ee60af85a71370/9efab2399c7c560b34de477b9aa0a465/newton.gif]

Why not try dd if working real disk of to SD card ?

On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 6:41pm, Dave Wade via cctalk 
mailto:cctalk@classiccmp.org>> wrote:


Rob,

Might be an issue with the card. The KZQSA was officially only supported
for CD-ROM and Tape.

http://www.microvax2.org/files/KZQSA%20Jumper%20Settings.htm

(towards the bottom)...
... have you tried with a real SCSI drive?

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt via
> cctalk
> Sent: 16 March 2019 10:29
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: SCSI2SD on VMS 5.4
>
> I have been experimenting with a SCSI21SD V6 card trying to get it to work
on
> a VAX 4000-200 running VMS 5.4 using a KZQSA. It seems to recognise that
> there is a SCSI device there, but any attempt to access the device from
VMS
> 5.4 results in a Fatal Drive Error. I tried booting a VMS 7.3 image from
the
> SCSI2SD card and that worked.
>
>
>
> Obviously I have played with some of the settings, like SCSI2 mode etc,
but I
> have not found anything that works. Has anyone succeeded in getting this
> board to work on VMS 5.4?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Rob

RE: SCSI2SD on VMS 5.4

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Wade 
> Sent: 16 March 2019 10:41
> To: r...@jarratt.me.uk; 'Rob Jarratt' ;
'General
> Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts' 
> Subject: RE: SCSI2SD on VMS 5.4
> 
> Rob,
> 
>  Might be an issue with the card. The KZQSA was officially only supported
for
> CD-ROM and Tape.
> 
> http://www.microvax2.org/files/KZQSA%20Jumper%20Settings.htm
> 
> (towards the bottom)...
> ... have you tried with a real SCSI drive?
> 

I thought I remembered something like that but I couldn't find the info.
Thanks for the reminder. I suspect VMS 7.3 maybe works with hard disks on
KZQSA whereas 5.4 perhaps does not. I may try to emulate a CD-ROM to see if
that at least works.

Thanks

Rob

RE: SCSI2SD on VMS 5.4

[Dave Wade via cctalk]

Rob,

 Might be an issue with the card. The KZQSA was officially only supported
for CD-ROM and Tape.

http://www.microvax2.org/files/KZQSA%20Jumper%20Settings.htm

(towards the bottom)...
... have you tried with a real SCSI drive?

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk  On Behalf Of Rob Jarratt via
> cctalk
> Sent: 16 March 2019 10:29
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
> 
> Subject: SCSI2SD on VMS 5.4
> 
> I have been experimenting with a SCSI21SD V6 card trying to get it to work
on
> a VAX 4000-200 running VMS 5.4 using a KZQSA. It seems to recognise that
> there is a SCSI device there, but any attempt to access the device from
VMS
> 5.4 results in a Fatal Drive Error. I tried booting a VMS 7.3 image from
the
> SCSI2SD card and that worked.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously I have played with some of the settings, like SCSI2 mode etc,
but I
> have not found anything that works. Has anyone succeeded in getting this
> board to work on VMS 5.4?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> Rob

SCSI2SD on VMS 5.4

[Rob Jarratt via cctalk]

I have been experimenting with a SCSI21SD V6 card trying to get it to work
on a VAX 4000-200 running VMS 5.4 using a KZQSA. It seems to recognise that
there is a SCSI device there, but any attempt to access the device from VMS
5.4 results in a Fatal Drive Error. I tried booting a VMS 7.3 image from the
SCSI2SD card and that worked.

 

Obviously I have played with some of the settings, like SCSI2 mode etc, but
I have not found anything that works. Has anyone succeeded in getting this
board to work on VMS 5.4?

 

Thanks

 

Rob

Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?

[Josh Dersch via cctalk]

On 1/5/2019 7:55 PM, Al Kossow via cctalk wrote:


On 1/5/19 2:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote:

Hey all,
   Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi?

Nope. This card expects pre common command set disks with non-embedded
scsi adapters.

In a bad old days, you had to configure the scsi drive adapters
with disk geometry before you could use them, and the UC04
does that for adapters like the Adaptec 4000.


Al's right; I'll add two things:

1) I've used a SCSI2SD in other systems that formerly used an Adaptec 
4000/5000 controller with some success, but I was only ever able to get 
a single drive to work at a time; you may have similar luck with the 
SCSI2SD if you configure it just right.


2) The SCSI2SD does currently have support for emulating some of these 
early controllers/bridges, but the Adaptecs aren't on the list yet -- 
however the SCSI2SD's creator has been open to feature requests in the 
past, and might be able to add support, and documentation for the 
Adaptect boards is readily available.  (And the SCSI2SD firmware's open 
as well, so you can hack it in yourself if you have the time, etc.)


- Josh

Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 1/5/19 2:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote:
> Hey all,
>   Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi? 

Nope. This card expects pre common command set disks with non-embedded
scsi adapters.

In a bad old days, you had to configure the scsi drive adapters
with disk geometry before you could use them, and the UC04
does that for adapters like the Adaptec 4000.

Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?

[Jerry Weiss via cctalk]

Hi Jake,

I don't have a UC04, but its manual states its  Peripheral Interface is 
SCSI single ended.  The pinout is just like the UC07, except for 
terminator power.


    Jerry

On 1/5/19 4:46 PM, Jacob Ritorto via cctalk wrote:

Hey all,
   Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi?  I just
bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems to think
there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck.

thx
jake

P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to directly to
plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller bridge
things?

Re: uc04 + scsi2sd ?

[Richard Cini via cctalk]

  
  
  

I use it with a UC07. Not sure what the difference in the controllers 
is thought. 



Get Outlook for iOS

  




On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 5:46 PM -0500, "Jacob Ritorto via cctalk" 
 wrote:










Hey all,
  Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi?  I just
bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems to think
there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck.

thx
jake

P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to directly to
plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller bridge
things?

uc04 + scsi2sd ?

[Jacob Ritorto via cctalk]

Hey all,
  Anyone know whether the Emulex UC04 works with the sd2scsi?  I just
bought a uc04 and it won't talk to any of my old scsi disks, seems to think
there's supposed to be a "controller" in between :\ yuck.

thx
jake

P.S. While I'm at it, anyone know how to get UC04 to talk to directly to
plain scsi disks and tapes instead of these lunatic ESDI controller bridge
things?

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

Nice work, indeed! The clearance issue is part of why I made the repair
module boards.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Wed, Dec 5, 2018 at 9:54 AM Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On Sun, 2 Dec 2018, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote:
>
> > The re-work of that Dallas nvram chip is just beautiful.  It makes me
> > ashamed of myself.  (I just chopped into the epoxy with a pocket knife,
> > soldered two leads, and velcroed the new batteries somewhere inside the
> > machine I installed it in.)
>
>  There is very little clearance in DECstation 5000 systems, like .1", as
> per the TURBOchannel specification, between the top of the Dallas chip and
> the bottom of any TURBOchannel option placed right above it (some have
> components underneath, including large ICs), and I think the risk of
> breaking such a non-standard wiring while shuffling option cards is not to
> be ignored either.  Also the design of the system box makes it very
> difficult to choose a suitable location for a distant battery holder that
> would not obstruct anything.
>
>  So I decided to do that properly at the cost of it taking perhaps a
> little longer to rework a single chip.
>
>  NB a CR1220 cell is supposed to last for ~8 years in this application if
> running on battery power all the time, which I think is good enough.  A
> CR2032 cell would last ~50 years, which I think is an overkill, given that
> the seal is expected to fail much earlier, like after 10 years.
>
>  An encapsulated power module could instead be used such as the Renata
> 175-0, where space permits, which would indeed last some 50 years, being
> airtight, but I haven't seen any reports of its use in this application (I
> have a couple of those on DEC NVRAM boards and last time I checked they
> still had the power to hold 1MiB SRAM memory contents after 25+ years).
>
> > I salute you sir.
>
>  :)  So far I only made 2 of these, but more are in the pipeline (waiting
> for a free weekend).
>
>   Maciej
>

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk]

On Sun, 2 Dec 2018, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote:

> The re-work of that Dallas nvram chip is just beautiful.  It makes me
> ashamed of myself.  (I just chopped into the epoxy with a pocket knife,
> soldered two leads, and velcroed the new batteries somewhere inside the
> machine I installed it in.)

 There is very little clearance in DECstation 5000 systems, like .1", as 
per the TURBOchannel specification, between the top of the Dallas chip and 
the bottom of any TURBOchannel option placed right above it (some have 
components underneath, including large ICs), and I think the risk of 
breaking such a non-standard wiring while shuffling option cards is not to 
be ignored either.  Also the design of the system box makes it very 
difficult to choose a suitable location for a distant battery holder that 
would not obstruct anything.

 So I decided to do that properly at the cost of it taking perhaps a 
little longer to rework a single chip.

 NB a CR1220 cell is supposed to last for ~8 years in this application if 
running on battery power all the time, which I think is good enough.  A 
CR2032 cell would last ~50 years, which I think is an overkill, given that 
the seal is expected to fail much earlier, like after 10 years.

 An encapsulated power module could instead be used such as the Renata 
175-0, where space permits, which would indeed last some 50 years, being 
airtight, but I haven't seen any reports of its use in this application (I 
have a couple of those on DEC NVRAM boards and last time I checked they 
still had the power to hold 1MiB SRAM memory contents after 25+ years).

> I salute you sir.

 :)  So far I only made 2 of these, but more are in the pipeline (waiting
for a free weekend).

  Maciej

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk]

The re-work of that Dallas nvram chip is just beautiful.  It makes me
ashamed of myself.  (I just chopped into the epoxy with a pocket knife,
soldered two leads, and velcroed the new batteries somewhere inside the
machine I installed it in.)

I salute you sir.

Jeff

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk]

On Sat, 1 Dec 2018, alan--- via cctalk wrote:

> I'm not sure what the 'B' in the middle means (silicon rev?), but the DS12885
> has been around for decades.  I use them the JR-IDE project.

 Yes, the DS12885 is a standard part, still in production (with a trailing 
+ marking RoHS compliance).

 According to its datasheet the DS12B887 has an NC pin actually present in 
the position where the DS12885 has the RESET# line, while the remaining NC 
positions are absent due to the respective pins having been bent up (or 
"are missing by design", as the datasheet puts it).  So either a different 
core had to be used with the DS12B887 or the datasheet has an error.

 However RESET# would have to be connected to VCC for normal operation and 
there is no mention of an internal pull-up on RESET# with the DS12885, so 
I take it the DS12B887 had to use a different core and a DS12B885 seems 
like a logical match.

 The placement of RESET# right in the middle between VBAT and GND makes it 
highly unlikely an internal discrete connection has been made in the 
DS12B887 package between RESET# and VCC, as a shortage to the embedded 
lithium cell from that pin if bent up and soldered to would be virtually 
unavoidable.

  Maciej

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[alan--- via cctalk]

I'm not sure what the 'B' in the middle means (silicon rev?), but the 
DS12885 has been around for decades.  I use them the JR-IDE project.


-Alan


On 2018-12-01 17:47, Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk wrote:

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

I probably need to do a writeup on fully potted parts, like the 48T59 
and

DS1287.


 See a photo documentary here:
 for my
proposal of a DS1287 rework.

 I actually had a nasty surprise trying to rework a DS1287A, with a 
date

code indicating a clearly faked marking.  After removing the integrated
coin cell the marking on the embedded IC revealed showed it wasn't even 
a

DS1287A originally as the IC was a DS12B885.  This is a part I haven't
heard of existing, so I enquired Maxim, but they had no clue about it.  
I
suspect the DS12B885 was the core of the DS12B887 (wired differently 
from
both DS12887 and DS12887A), and the DS12B885 has never been marketed as 
a

part on its own.

  Maciej

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Maciej W. Rozycki via cctalk]

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:

> I probably need to do a writeup on fully potted parts, like the 48T59 and
> DS1287.

 See a photo documentary here:
 for my 
proposal of a DS1287 rework.

 I actually had a nasty surprise trying to rework a DS1287A, with a date 
code indicating a clearly faked marking.  After removing the integrated 
coin cell the marking on the embedded IC revealed showed it wasn't even a 
DS1287A originally as the IC was a DS12B885.  This is a part I haven't 
heard of existing, so I enquired Maxim, but they had no clue about it.  I 
suspect the DS12B885 was the core of the DS12B887 (wired differently from 
both DS12887 and DS12887A), and the DS12B885 has never been marketed as a 
part on its own.

  Maciej

Re: NVRAM resuscitation (Was Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD)

[Jim Manley via cctalk]

DEC had some employees with clearances all the way up both primary sides of
the classification ladder, General Service (GENSER, which includes some
"black" programs), and Special Compartmented Intelligence (SCI, which has
its own alphabet soup, including other kinds of "black" programs).  They
needed this because magnetic core memory was used in PDP era systems that
processed up to the highest classification levels deemed prudent to not
require completely manual handling (including typewriters and carbon paper,
at least until pressure-sensitive carbonless paper was invented).

That included communications processing systems that, when the hardware
reached end-of-life (which happened to coincide with the upgrades made for
Y2K), the software was wrapped essentially in virtual machines that ran on
current-technology hardware and OSes.  The cost of porting the original
code would have been horrific because it had been mathematically proven to
be correct, and introduction of a single bug could not be tolerated.  Long
after PDP hardware had become commercially extinct, but the government
never throws anything away, DoD was still paying DEC lots of pretty pennies
to maintain a special secure version of the RSX-11 OS for feature
enhancements until the wrapping could be performed.

Core was so expensive that it was economically necessary to repair it,
rather than just replace it, especially in overseas systems where supply
lines were tenuous, at best.  As you might have heard, core never forgets -
at the Computer History Museum, when we resurrected our 1960-vintage IBM
1401, every bit of the auto parts database that it ran when taken out of
service was still intact over 30 years later.  That meant that military
commissioned officers had to escort double-wrapped/sealed/authenticated
packages containing such core devices all the way from almost-literally
Timbuktu back to DEC.

Plus, because of two-man rule handling requirements, two people with the
necessary clearances had to keep it in their presence when it wasn't
secured in a vault, and it was signed in and out every time it moved or
changed hands.  One of the benefits of volunteering to do this when flying
space-available on leave was that such couriers got to get on military
aircraft before anyone else, so we got first choice on seats.  Well, it was
as "choice" as it gets when often on tactical aircraft with jump seats used
by special forces and conventional paratroopers.

Civilians would describe the seats as ballistic nylon material stretched
between round aircraft-grade aluminum tubes ... aka a high-speed, low-drag
cot ... with nylon webbing, similar to seat-belt material, cross-woven
vertically/horizontally, with gaps equal in width to the webbing, hung
behind serving as a "back rest".  Military aviation seat belts were
thoughtfully provided passing through the webbing and secured to the inside
bulkheads of the fuselage ... mostly to make it easier for recovery crews
to gather the bodies in case of a crash ...

So, yeah, there's a whole world of physical security associated with NV
memory devices, alone, even if the technology has changed.  BTW, it's not
physically possible to reliably degauss every bit on rotating magnetic
storage media with a flux density higher than about that of a 1.44 MB
floppy disk, no matter how strong a field is produced.  It has to be
physically reduced to dust smaller than a specified particle size, or
incinerated.

On Wed, Nov 28, 2018 at 7:47 AM Paul Koning via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> > On Nov 28, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ethan via cctalk 
> wrote:
> >
> >> As an aside - once upon a time I worked for a company that made their
> own Sparc boards to fit inside a supercomputer and several of them were
> inside secure military/government establishments. Sometimes a board would
> fail and have to go back for a fix - and then the RTC/NVRAM chip had to be
> removed because - you know, those 64 bytes of battery backed RAM might just
> hold some state secret or something...
> >> Fun days.
> >> -Gordon
> >
> > Surprised they knew about it!
>
> One of the documents hardware engineers have to generate is a "Statement
> of Volatility" that lists every component in the system with persistent
> memory of any kind.  For each, it says what is in that memory, where it is
> located, and how (if it can contain anything like user data or
> configuration settings) it can be erased or removed.
>
> The NVRAM chip Gordon mentioned would show up in such an SOV.
>
> paul
>

Re: NVRAM resuscitation (Was Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD)

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Nov 28, 2018, at 9:43 AM, Ethan via cctalk  wrote:
> 
>> As an aside - once upon a time I worked for a company that made their own 
>> Sparc boards to fit inside a supercomputer and several of them were inside 
>> secure military/government establishments. Sometimes a board would fail and 
>> have to go back for a fix - and then the RTC/NVRAM chip had to be removed 
>> because - you know, those 64 bytes of battery backed RAM might just hold 
>> some state secret or something...
>> Fun days.
>> -Gordon
> 
> Surprised they knew about it!

One of the documents hardware engineers have to generate is a "Statement of 
Volatility" that lists every component in the system with persistent memory of 
any kind.  For each, it says what is in that memory, where it is located, and 
how (if it can contain anything like user data or configuration settings) it 
can be erased or removed.

The NVRAM chip Gordon mentioned would show up in such an SOV.

paul

Re: NVRAM resuscitation (Was Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD)

[Ethan via cctalk]

As an aside - once upon a time I worked for a company that made their own 
Sparc boards to fit inside a supercomputer and several of them were inside 
secure military/government establishments. Sometimes a board would fail and 
have to go back for a fix - and then the RTC/NVRAM chip had to be removed 
because - you know, those 64 bytes of battery backed RAM might just hold some 
state secret or something...

Fun days.
-Gordon


Surprised they knew about it!


--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: NVRAM resuscitation (Was Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD)

[Gordon Henderson via cctalk]

As an aside - once upon a time I worked for a company that made their own 
Sparc boards to fit inside a supercomputer and several of them were inside 
secure military/government establishments. Sometimes a board would fail 
and have to go back for a fix - and then the RTC/NVRAM chip had to be 
removed because - you know, those 64 bytes of battery backed RAM might 
just hold some state secret or something...


Fun days.

-Gordon

Re: NVRAM resuscitation (Was Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD)

[allison via cctalk]

On 11/27/2018 03:34 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote:
> When I bought that Sparcstation 4/330 at Computer Parts Barn, the 48T02
> was one of the problems with it.  The chip looks like a piggieback rom
> encapsulated in epoxy.
>
> I was not reinventing the wheel at the time, I think, because it was
> the year 2000 or so, but I looked for a replacement and found them hard
> to come by.  So, knowing the battery was most likely the fault, I went
> about fixing that bit.
>
> The battery accounts for the high profile.  You do not have to cut the
> entire doggone batter off, the terminals are at one side, iirc, the
> right-hand side if the notch is to your left.  It is high on the epoxy,
> so all you need do is cut down an eighth of an inch in that region,
> just shave that top edge until you expose the battery terminals.  I
> forget how I determined the polarity of them, perhaps I plugged it into
> the board after and tested the terminals for power, but all you do once
> you've exposed the terminals is solder a power and a ground wire to
> them and attach a 3volt battery.  I used a pack with two AA's, in a
> case so they are user-replaceable.  They are probably STILL keeping
> time in that machine, wherever DHS took it and my MEGA ST4 and DG
> MV4000/dc...  That's another story.
>
> So refurbishing these chips is a cakewalk, takes 15 minutes (the second
> time 'round), and will work til' doomsday.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jeff
>
I take a very simple approach:


All the ones I've ever purchased were bad out of the box (NOS parts), so
much for china but they can be repaired too.

After removing it from the board...

I use a small magnet to locate the battery.  I use a sharp wood chisel
about .25 wide and carve the plastic down
to the battery then get under one edge.   Once metal is visible I clear
the plastic and pop it out.  The wires then
are easy to locate and I mount using Hot-melt glue a new holder for the
very common 2032.    Never had to
replace one of those and a few are pushing more than 12years.  The whole
mess takes less than a few minutes
to do where access the board and getting it off the board are the bigger
part of it.  Since I have a few NOS
(but dead) parts plus pulls from old CPU cards I rarely worry if the
existing one gets damaged as I have spares.
To me its not a big deal.

Allison

Re: NVRAM resuscitation (Was Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD)

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

I'd modified them as Jeff described in the past, but having the repair
boards saves significant time when doing a bunch. It also allows
non-precision cuts, since it doesn't matter if you accidentally destroy the
old connections down to the IC body. It also results in a repaired module
with no battery-on-a-wire, but is still short enough to fit under SBus
cards for the machines that have NVRAM under card slots. Since the repair
boards come panelized in 2x5 grids, I can assemble 10 at a time, which
again, when you're doing a heap of NVRAMs, saves a lot of time.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 4:05 PM Alan Perry via cctalk 
wrote:

> One reason that I buy the new NVRAMs is that I keep failing at modifying
> them. Got the polarity wrong and fried one. I destroyed one cutting down
> to the terminals. I got one working, but have had problems convincing
> the battery to stay in place and not rip the leads off. There is a
> reason I am a software, not a hardware, guy :)
>
> alan
>
> On 11/27/18 12:34 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote:
> > When I bought that Sparcstation 4/330 at Computer Parts Barn, the 48T02
> > was one of the problems with it.  The chip looks like a piggieback rom
> > encapsulated in epoxy.
> >
> > I was not reinventing the wheel at the time, I think, because it was
> > the year 2000 or so, but I looked for a replacement and found them hard
> > to come by.  So, knowing the battery was most likely the fault, I went
> > about fixing that bit.
> >
> > The battery accounts for the high profile.  You do not have to cut the
> > entire doggone batter off, the terminals are at one side, iirc, the
> > right-hand side if the notch is to your left.  It is high on the epoxy,
> > so all you need do is cut down an eighth of an inch in that region,
> > just shave that top edge until you expose the battery terminals.  I
> > forget how I determined the polarity of them, perhaps I plugged it into
> > the board after and tested the terminals for power, but all you do once
> > you've exposed the terminals is solder a power and a ground wire to
> > them and attach a 3volt battery.  I used a pack with two AA's, in a
> > case so they are user-replaceable.  They are probably STILL keeping
> > time in that machine, wherever DHS took it and my MEGA ST4 and DG
> > MV4000/dc...  That's another story.
> >
> > So refurbishing these chips is a cakewalk, takes 15 minutes (the second
> > time 'round), and will work til' doomsday.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Jeff
> >
>
>

Re: NVRAM resuscitation (Was Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD)

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

One reason that I buy the new NVRAMs is that I keep failing at modifying 
them. Got the polarity wrong and fried one. I destroyed one cutting down 
to the terminals. I got one working, but have had problems convincing 
the battery to stay in place and not rip the leads off. There is a 
reason I am a software, not a hardware, guy :)


alan

On 11/27/18 12:34 PM, Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk wrote:

When I bought that Sparcstation 4/330 at Computer Parts Barn, the 48T02
was one of the problems with it.  The chip looks like a piggieback rom
encapsulated in epoxy.

I was not reinventing the wheel at the time, I think, because it was
the year 2000 or so, but I looked for a replacement and found them hard
to come by.  So, knowing the battery was most likely the fault, I went
about fixing that bit.

The battery accounts for the high profile.  You do not have to cut the
entire doggone batter off, the terminals are at one side, iirc, the
right-hand side if the notch is to your left.  It is high on the epoxy,
so all you need do is cut down an eighth of an inch in that region,
just shave that top edge until you expose the battery terminals.  I
forget how I determined the polarity of them, perhaps I plugged it into
the board after and tested the terminals for power, but all you do once
you've exposed the terminals is solder a power and a ground wire to
them and attach a 3volt battery.  I used a pack with two AA's, in a
case so they are user-replaceable.  They are probably STILL keeping
time in that machine, wherever DHS took it and my MEGA ST4 and DG
MV4000/dc...  That's another story.

So refurbishing these chips is a cakewalk, takes 15 minutes (the second
time 'round), and will work til' doomsday.

Best regards,

Jeff

NVRAM resuscitation (Was Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD)

[Jeffrey S. Worley via cctalk]

When I bought that Sparcstation 4/330 at Computer Parts Barn, the 48T02
was one of the problems with it.  The chip looks like a piggieback rom
encapsulated in epoxy.

I was not reinventing the wheel at the time, I think, because it was
the year 2000 or so, but I looked for a replacement and found them hard
to come by.  So, knowing the battery was most likely the fault, I went
about fixing that bit.

The battery accounts for the high profile.  You do not have to cut the
entire doggone batter off, the terminals are at one side, iirc, the
right-hand side if the notch is to your left.  It is high on the epoxy,
so all you need do is cut down an eighth of an inch in that region,
just shave that top edge until you expose the battery terminals.  I
forget how I determined the polarity of them, perhaps I plugged it into
the board after and tested the terminals for power, but all you do once
you've exposed the terminals is solder a power and a ground wire to
them and attach a 3volt battery.  I used a pack with two AA's, in a
case so they are user-replaceable.  They are probably STILL keeping
time in that machine, wherever DHS took it and my MEGA ST4 and DG
MV4000/dc...  That's another story.

So refurbishing these chips is a cakewalk, takes 15 minutes (the second
time 'round), and will work til' doomsday.

Best regards,

Jeff

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Ethan Dicks via cctalk]

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 10:44 AM Kyle Owen via cctalk
 wrote:
> Does anyone have a 3/60 hard disk image of SunOS 3.4 or 3.5, by chance?

I'll check.  I was playing with TME earlier this year but I'm
forgetting which version of SunOS I was working on.  I had a need to
test out some ancient SunOS m68k binaries (and was ultimately
successful).  It might be 4.1.1, which might not help you so much.

I'm on the road this week so I won't have access to that platform
until the weekend, but I will check when I get home.

-ethan

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 9:50 PM  wrote:

>
> Ah cool. I was at a friend's brother's house on a work trip out to Silicon
> Valley. One of his friends was there, with something amazing running in
> QEMU. It was a work in progress, but he said that there were a lot of
> issues because QEMU was too accurate in emulating the MIPS procressors and
> in addition to this, there was bugs in his former employer's hardware that
> had software work-arounds in the real OS. So when trying to run that OS on
> the emulated system the accuracy worked against him.
>

Yikes! I've been thinking, since the Previous (NeXT) emulator works so
well, what would it take to turn it into a Sun emulator? I haven't looked
at the Previous source yet, but it seems like that would be a good starting
point.

>
> > Trying to build MazeWar results in:
> >
> > ld: Undefined symbol
> >   ___bb_init_func
> >   DREG_SEG
> > *** Error code 2
> >
> > Not sure yet what to look for, but the source does say it was tested on
> > SunOS 3.1 and 3.4. So, I am trying to compile it on something a bit
> later.
>
> Sun compiler I assume and not a GCC?
>

Yes, the Sun compiler. At some point, I'll see if I can get my 3/60 booted,
but I'm lacking the right SCSI cable, I think. I also don't know how well
SCSI2SD will work emulating a streaming tape device, if at all.

Does anyone have a 3/60 hard disk image of SunOS 3.4 or 3.5, by chance?

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

For fully potted parts like the 48T59, I make four cuts along the sides of
the encapsulation, on the short ends I cut until I hit metal (pins coming
up from the IC to the crystal/battery). On the long ends I just cut deep
enough to get through the pot shell and into the potting compound a little.
Then I put a small chisel or large screwdriver in one of the cuts on the
short ends, and strike it with a small ball peen hammer. This will usually
split the encapsulation right off, but sometimes you have to flip it over
and do the same on the other short end.

I probably need to do a writeup on fully potted parts, like the 48T59 and
DS1287.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 6:52 AM Al Kossow via cctalk 
wrote:

>
>
> On 11/26/18 2:42 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:
> > I'm not sure, I don't personally see it as something worthwhile to
> > investigate when you can just rebuild the old NVRAMs.
>
> What is the best way to decap 28 pin parts? 24-pin ones come apart pretty
> easily but they don't leave a gap on the 28 pin ones.
>
>
>

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Al Kossow via cctalk]

On 11/26/18 2:42 PM, systems_glitch via cctalk wrote:
> I'm not sure, I don't personally see it as something worthwhile to
> investigate when you can just rebuild the old NVRAMs.

What is the best way to decap 28 pin parts? 24-pin ones come apart pretty
easily but they don't leave a gap on the 28 pin ones.

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

I'm not sure, I don't personally see it as something worthwhile to
investigate when you can just rebuild the old NVRAMs. Even if you do use a
SNAPHAT type replacement, you're still stuck with proprietary batteries
that will one day no longer be made, versus an extremely common CR1225
cell. I've made total replacements for NVRAMs that are not easily rebuilt,
such as the Dallas DS1244:

http://www.glitchwrks.com/2018/03/17/gw-1244-1

But, that's a lot more effort and expense than just sawing the top off a
dead 48T02, gluing on one of my repair boards, and soldering the leads :P

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 5:40 PM  wrote:

> > Also, to anyone buying NVRAMs on eBay, don't expect anything from China
> to
> > actually be new NVRAMs. I've bought a bunch to disassemble, in the course
>
> Are any of the SMD NVRAMs with the battery caps compatible? Throw them on
> a DIP to SOIC PCB?
>
> - Ethan
>
>
> --
> : Ethan O'Toole
>
>
>

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Ethan via cctalk]

Also, to anyone buying NVRAMs on eBay, don't expect anything from China to
actually be new NVRAMs. I've bought a bunch to disassemble, in the course


Are any of the SMD NVRAMs with the battery caps compatible? Throw them on 
a DIP to SOIC PCB?


- Ethan


--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

> Don't have any spare modules? What happened to the half dozen that I sent
you? :)

In the queue somewhere! They'll likely go to replace the modules I'd stolen
from other machines over the years, as I get around to fixing them.

Also, to anyone buying NVRAMs on eBay, don't expect anything from China to
actually be new NVRAMs. I've bought a bunch to disassemble, in the course
of making repair boards for a number of different NVRAMs/RTCs, and every
single one has been a relabel. All had low battery voltages, on the few
where I actually totally destroyed the encapsulation to examine the
innards, the batteries often carried dates 10+ years old, even though the
outside markings suggested it was a year or two old. Not that fakes/remarks
from China should be a surprise.

Thanks,
Jonathan


On Mon, Nov 26, 2018 at 5:20 PM Alan Perry via cctalk 
wrote:

>
>
> On 11/26/18 2:08 PM, systems_glitch wrote:
> >
> >
> > I don't have any spare modules to rebuild, so I don't have premade
> > replacements up at the moment. I've been rebuilding them for people
> > when they send in their dead modules, but I'd guess most people here
> > can do the rebuild themselves, time permitting. I wouldn't cut into
> > the encapsulation with a powered tool like a Dremel, unless you're
> > going to wear a face mask. I use a hacksaw with Lenox fine kerf
> > blades. Any blade will do if you're only rebuilding a few NVRAMs.
> >
> >
> Don't have any spare modules? What happened to the half dozen that I
> sent you? :)
>
> alan
>
> P.S. Out of my dozen Sun systems, almost all of them are using new IDPROMs.
>
>
>

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

On 11/26/18 2:08 PM, systems_glitch wrote:



I don't have any spare modules to rebuild, so I don't have premade 
replacements up at the moment. I've been rebuilding them for people 
when they send in their dead modules, but I'd guess most people here 
can do the rebuild themselves, time permitting. I wouldn't cut into 
the encapsulation with a powered tool like a Dremel, unless you're 
going to wear a face mask. I use a hacksaw with Lenox fine kerf 
blades. Any blade will do if you're only rebuilding a few NVRAMs.



Don't have any spare modules? What happened to the half dozen that I 
sent you? :)


alan

P.S. Out of my dozen Sun systems, almost all of them are using new IDPROMs.

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[systems_glitch via cctalk]

They're still made, but the new ones don't always work in place of the old
ones -- not 100% anyway. It's been my experience that, on sun4c and sun4m,
new 48T02s and 48T08s aren't 100% compatible. I've mentioned others'
suggestions on what the differences are in my Tindie listings, and on the
writeup on my site. That's why I designed the rebuild modules I've got
available, I had around 50 48T02s to process! Writeup here:

http://www.glitchwrks.com/2017/08/01/gw-48t02-1

(it's for the 48T02, but the process is the same...just the GW-48T08-1 is a
little longer)

The "not 100% compatible" symptom is that the clock fails power-on
diagnostics, and some machines will drop to OpenBoot/firmware monitor
prompt when that happens. NVRAM settings will be retained, but the clock
may or may not run, and some machines won't auto-boot.

I don't have any spare modules to rebuild, so I don't have premade
replacements up at the moment. I've been rebuilding them for people when
they send in their dead modules, but I'd guess most people here can do the
rebuild themselves, time permitting. I wouldn't cut into the encapsulation
with a powered tool like a Dremel, unless you're going to wear a face mask.
I use a hacksaw with Lenox fine kerf blades. Any blade will do if you're
only rebuilding a few NVRAMs.

Thanks,
Jonathan

On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 11:30 PM Alan Perry via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 11/25/18 7:49 PM, Ethan via cctalk wrote:
> >
> >
> >> The NVRAM is totally dead; I've been reloading the IDPROM contents each
> >> time. I've already ordered replacement NVRAMs from China; we'll see how
> >> they do. Otherwise, I'll be going with the filing/coin cell trick.
> >
> > Interesting. Are they no longer made? I should get one for my Voyager.
> >
> They are still made. I usually get M48T08s or M48T18s from Mouser.
>
> In the long run, it is probably a good idea to mod the IDPROM to use an
> external, replaceable battery, Glitch Works makes a board that one can
> solder on to do that
> (
> https://www.tindie.com/products/glitchwrks/gw-48t08-1-repair-board-module/
> ).
>
> alan
>
>

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

On 11/25/18 7:49 PM, Ethan via cctalk wrote:




The NVRAM is totally dead; I've been reloading the IDPROM contents each
time. I've already ordered replacement NVRAMs from China; we'll see how
they do. Otherwise, I'll be going with the filing/coin cell trick.


Interesting. Are they no longer made? I should get one for my Voyager.


They are still made. I usually get M48T08s or M48T18s from Mouser.

In the long run, it is probably a good idea to mod the IDPROM to use an 
external, replaceable battery, Glitch Works makes a board that one can 
solder on to do that 
(https://www.tindie.com/products/glitchwrks/gw-48t08-1-repair-board-module/).


alan

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Ethan via cctalk]

I was hoping to just emulate it for now to avoid potentially bad hardware,
but seems like I need to use the real hardware to avoid potentially bad
software! :)


Ah cool. I was at a friend's brother's house on a work trip out to Silicon 
Valley. One of his friends was there, with something amazing running in 
QEMU. It was a work in progress, but he said that there were a lot of 
issues because QEMU was too accurate in emulating the MIPS procressors and 
in addition to this, there was bugs in his former employer's hardware that 
had software work-arounds in the real OS. So when trying to run that OS on 
the emulated system the accuracy worked against him.



The NVRAM is totally dead; I've been reloading the IDPROM contents each
time. I've already ordered replacement NVRAMs from China; we'll see how
they do. Otherwise, I'll be going with the filing/coin cell trick.


Interesting. Are they no longer made? I should get one for my Voyager.


Not sure; but, I can say, I've got SunOS 4.1.3 finally installed, and am
now looking at a sparse SunView desktop.


Very cool


Trying to build MazeWar results in:

ld: Undefined symbol
  ___bb_init_func
  DREG_SEG
*** Error code 2

Not sure yet what to look for, but the source does say it was tested on
SunOS 3.1 and 3.4. So, I am trying to compile it on something a bit later.


Sun compiler I assume and not a GCC?


--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

On Sun, Nov 25, 2018 at 9:14 PM  wrote:

> Since you said QEMU, you are emulating this? If on the real hardware, is
>
the NVRAM memory dead? Looks like it doesn't know what kind of hardware it
> is. Real hardware will loose nvram battery and need to be replaced and
> reprogrammed, or you can file it down and jumper a battery into it.
>

I was hoping to just emulate it for now to avoid potentially bad hardware,
but seems like I need to use the real hardware to avoid potentially bad
software! :)

The NVRAM is totally dead; I've been reloading the IDPROM contents each
time. I've already ordered replacement NVRAMs from China; we'll see how
they do. Otherwise, I'll be going with the filing/coin cell trick.

There is also probably a bunch of environment variables in the NVRAM as to
> the CD-ROM SCSI path and OS scsi path and stuff on the Sun. It's been a
> long time since Sun boxes for me, so unfortuantely I've forgotten a lot of
> it. But if it's all reset or non-existant it could be a source of issues
> if my memory is right (It definitely is on SGI hardware.)
>

Not sure; but, I can say, I've got SunOS 4.1.3 finally installed, and am
now looking at a sparse SunView desktop.

Trying to build MazeWar results in:

ld: Undefined symbol
   ___bb_init_func
   DREG_SEG
*** Error code 2

Not sure yet what to look for, but the source does say it was tested on
SunOS 3.1 and 3.4. So, I am trying to compile it on something a bit later.

Thanks,

Kyle

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Ethan via cctalk]

Well, got the last problem solved rather quickly: I tried using 512 byte
sectors for the emulated CDROM instead of SCSI2SD's default of 2048 for a
CDROM, and that did the trick. Working my way through the SunOS 4.1.3
installation process now on the SS-20.


Was just thinking the 512 byte thing might be an issue. Early Toshiba 
Cd-ROMs had a solder jumper that would switch this, and is was needed for 
some early systems. SGI Indigo R3000 and below was one, and I guess Sun 
was another. I think NeXT also requires the 512 byte block CD-ROM.


Since you said QEMU, you are emulating this? If on the real hardware, is 
the NVRAM memory dead? Looks like it doesn't know what kind of hardware it 
is. Real hardware will loose nvram battery and need to be replaced and 
reprogrammed, or you can file it down and jumper a battery into it.


There is also probably a bunch of environment variables in the NVRAM as to 
the CD-ROM SCSI path and OS scsi path and stuff on the Sun. It's been a 
long time since Sun boxes for me, so unfortuantely I've forgotten a lot of 
it. But if it's all reset or non-existant it could be a source of issues 
if my memory is right (It definitely is on SGI hardware.)



--
: Ethan O'Toole

Re: SPARCstation 20 with SCSI2SD

[Kyle Owen via cctalk]

Well, got the last problem solved rather quickly: I tried using 512 byte
sectors for the emulated CDROM instead of SCSI2SD's default of 2048 for a
CDROM, and that did the trick. Working my way through the SunOS 4.1.3
installation process now on the SS-20.

>
If anyone has some advice on how to get QEMU or TME working, I'd still be
all ears.

Thanks,

Kyle

Emulated DEC Drives: UC07 and SCSI2SD

[Douglas Taylor via cctalk]

I am bringing up a MicroVax III in a BA23 box and I intend to run it 
from an SD card attached to a SCSI2SD adapter.


The SD card was setup to have the size of RA90 and RA82 drives using the 
scsi2sd-util program on a Win7 computer to  partition the 4GB SD card .


When I attached it to an Emulex UC07 and edited the NVRAM (using the 
autodetect option) the UC07 saw the drives but with slightly different 
sizes.


RA90:   scsi2sd  2,376,153 sectors UC07  2,376,089 sectors

RA82:  scsi2sd  1,216,665 sectors UC07  1,216,601 sectors

The difference is 64 sectors.  When I installed VMS 7.3 it also warned 
me that the RA82 were not the correct size.  The OS was installed to the 
RA90.


Does this mean anything critical?

Doug

Re: ACARD ARS-2000SUP versus SCSI2SD - round 1

[Swift Griggs]

On Sat, 25 Jun 2016, pete wrote:
> > I'd love to see results under IRIX, as I was thinking of trying one or both
> > of those myself!
> Seconded, though it looks like it'll be considerably slower than a real SCSI2
> hard drive.

I'm not sure about that. I've got another ACARD unit (the faster SCA 
model) that I use in my Tezro. I also have a second disk (the Tezro can 
hold a couple) that's a spinning rust 15k Barracuda. I don't have numbers 
right now (next time I fire up my Tezro I'll get some). However, 
anecdotally, the ACARD disk (also predicated on a Samsung 850 Pro SATA 
SSD) will absolutely stomp the Barracuda's guts out in every stat and 
especially on latency. 

The main time I can "feel" it is when I run Photoshop or a browser. The 
SSD-based ACARD makes the system feel a lot faster. Pages finish loading 
faster, 'rqsall' takes about half as long, packages install much more 
quickly, and the silly delays you get when 'inst' is reading package 
metadata takes a lot less time. I curse at it only about half as much (I 
love IRIX but 'inst' and I aren't pals - I haze it often).

I know that's all anecdotal, but I'm pretty sure I tested the disk when I 
first got it and it blew the rust-based drive away. I've just got my bench 
all covered with Quadra 700 parts and various jury-rigged SCSI cables so I 
can install from CDROM on a machine that doesn't have space for a CDROM 
etc.. When I finish refurbing this thing with a MacOS + A/UX 3 dual boot 
rig, I'll grab the SGIs. I'll try out the ACARD vs SCSI2SD on my R5k/180 
Indy.

-Swift

Re: ACARD ARS-2000SUP versus SCSI2SD - round 1

[pete]

On 25/06/2016 12:15, Ben Sinclair wrote:

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Swift Griggs  wrote:


Once I'm done I'll hook both of these up to a FreeBSD box, dd off full
backups, then start over again and try with ZFS under FreeBSD via a PCI
SCSI controller. Then again under IRIX if I still have the energy.


I'd love to see results under IRIX, as I was thinking of trying one or both
of those myself!


Seconded, though it looks like it'll be considerably slower than a real 
SCSI2 hard drive.


--
Pete
Pete Turnbull

Re: ACARD ARS-2000SUP versus SCSI2SD - round 1

[Ben Sinclair]

On Fri, Jun 24, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Swift Griggs  wrote:

>
> Once I'm done I'll hook both of these up to a FreeBSD box, dd off full
> backups, then start over again and try with ZFS under FreeBSD via a PCI
> SCSI controller. Then again under IRIX if I still have the energy.
>

I'd love to see results under IRIX, as I was thinking of trying one or both
of those myself!

Ben Sinclair
b...@bensinclair.com

ACARD ARS-2000SUP versus SCSI2SD - round 1

[Swift Griggs]

Tested using "Raw block speed" test in LIDO 7 under MacOS:

[SCSI2SD v5]
  READ: 891 KB/s 
 WRITE: 728 KB/s 

[ACARD ARS-2000SUP]

  READ: 1621 KB/s
 WRITE: 1277 KB/s

More info:

The ACARD device contains a Samsung 850 Pro 128G SSD. The SCSI2SD contains 
a Samsung Pro+ 64GB micro SD and is running firmware v4.6, IIRC. Both are 
were attached to a Quadra 700 Macintosh running System 8.1 with 68 megs of 
RAM (4 onboard + 64MB in 16MB SIMMS, the max on the Quadra 700). I had 
them hooked up at the same time so I could use one to partition the other. 
The hard disk "driver" was the one provided by LIDO, but I also tried 
LaCie SilverLining 5's driver as well, but the performace was slightly 
worse. I tested in LIDO using it's raw speed test feature. It's probably 
only a rough measure of sequential speed. I just tested three times and 
averaged the results, but it was within just a few KB/s each time.

Once I'm done I'll hook both of these up to a FreeBSD box, dd off full 
backups, then start over again and try with ZFS under FreeBSD via a PCI 
SCSI controller. Then again under IRIX if I still have the energy. I'll 
give some results from 'fio' or 'iozone' under FreeBSD. Those will be a 
lot more detailed and break down sequential versus random results and show 
the results of various other permutations.

I'd also like to test the SCSI2SD v6, but I can't get my hands on one, 
yet. The only place that talks about the v6 is the codesrc wiki and the 
American ebay retailer seems to only have the v5.0. I'll wait, I guess.

-Swift

Re: AT 3b2 vs SCSI2SD drive replacement

[Greg Stark]

It's not the currency that matters though, but where they ship from. I'm
guessing by the €3.25 shipping that they're probably doing from somewhere
in the EU but I don't see offhand where they say that.
On 2 Jun 2016 16:38, "Jerry Weiss" <j...@ieee.org> wrote:

>
> > On Jun 2, 2016, at 9:20 AM, Greg Stark <st...@mit.edu> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Toby Thain <t...@telegraphics.com.au>
> wrote:
> >> Big +1 to inertialcomputing!
> >
> >
> > Hm, any vendors inside the EU? This is above the threshold where I
> > would have to deal with VAT payable if I order it from outside.
> >
> > --
> > greg
>
> From the SCSI2SD site.
>
>
> http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1264
>
> Lists UK and EU currencies.
>
>
> Jerry
>
>

Re: AT 3b2 vs SCSI2SD drive replacement

[Cameron Kaiser]

> > Any idea which vendor to buy from to get an "open" part, how to preserve the
> > firmware / settings on what you get if you wish to modify it as an open
> > product?  The above is pretty nasty for the vendor of an  open product, and
> > I think I'll be buying from someone else.
> >
> 
> The US seller inertialcomputing has several listings from $66 to $80
> currently, depending on what size SD card is included:

Alex is a good guy. My Sol's SCSI2SD is one of his.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Merci d'eviter le "Top posting" 

RE: AT 3b2 vs SCSI2SD drive replacement

[Dave Wade]

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1264

Dave

> -Original Message-
> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Greg Stark
> Sent: 02 June 2016 15:21
> To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
> Cc: jwsm...@jwsss.com
> Subject: Re: AT 3b2 vs SCSI2SD drive replacement
> 
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Toby Thain <t...@telegraphics.com.au>
> wrote:
> > Big +1 to inertialcomputing!
> 
> 
> Hm, any vendors inside the EU? This is above the threshold where I would have
> to deal with VAT payable if I order it from outside.
> 
> --
> greg

Re: AT 3b2 vs SCSI2SD drive replacement

[Jerry Weiss]

> On Jun 2, 2016, at 9:20 AM, Greg Stark <st...@mit.edu> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Toby Thain <t...@telegraphics.com.au> wrote:
>> Big +1 to inertialcomputing!
> 
> 
> Hm, any vendors inside the EU? This is above the threshold where I
> would have to deal with VAT payable if I order it from outside.
> 
> -- 
> greg

From the SCSI2SD site.

http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1264  

Lists UK and EU currencies.


Jerry