Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[william degnan via cctalk]

On Sun, Mar 5, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> I've gotten rid of a lot of wierd stuff in the past.
>
> BUt toiday, I still have some QBUS M68K boards.  And I still have Terak
> boards (should
> qualify as rare I imagine) no Terak boxes but they work OK in any QBUS
> backplane.
>
> I'm sure if I thought about it there is more.
>
> bill
>

I have an original copy of the New York Weekly Messenger 2-13-1833
newspaper announcing Charles Babbage's "Calculating Machine".

Here is a link to download the PDF:
http://vintagecomputer.net/babbage.cfm

Bill

RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

I've gotten rid of a lot of wierd stuff in the past.

BUt toiday, I still have some QBUS M68K boards.  And I still have Terak boards 
(should
qualify as rare I imagine) no Terak boxes but they work OK in any QBUS 
backplane.

I'm sure if I thought about it there is more.

bill

From: cctalk [cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] on behalf of Pete Lancashire via 
cctalk [cctalk@classiccmp.org]
Sent: Sunday, March 5, 2017 12:22 PM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts
Subject: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

Here is what comes to mind, it may not qualify as a computer. A
Westinghouse Numa-Logic PC700. It is an early PLC. uses a Sinetics 8X300
bit slice. Unfortunately Westinghouse only started to invest in PLCs about
the time the they merged with CBS and in a few years
all of Westinghouse became history.

BTW Looking for parts, manuals, software, the "lug-able" CRT based
programmer, IDE PC interface etc. etc.

Also will get my Allen Bradly PLC with core memory running someday.

-pete

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Rick Bensene <ri...@bensene.com> wrote:

>
> A selection of some of my more unusual computer-related stuff:
>
> - A Tektronix 4132 Unix workstation  using a National 32016 CPU and a
> 4.2bsd port called UTek
>
> - A Digital Equipment PDP 8/e system with 2 RK05 drives, high speed paper
> tape reader/punch, RX01 Dual 8" floppy drives, 16K of DEC core
> memory(commonly runs with a 32K NVRAM board), 2 serial ports, EAE, RTC,
> Memory Extension/Timeshare board, Diode boot board (RK05 boot)
>
> - Wang 300-series calculator field service parts kit (two wooden
> briefcases)
>
> - Friden 6010 Computyper Diagnostic Console
>
> - Friden Electronics Training Course manuals (1960s)
>
> - Wyle Laboratories WS-02 punched card programmable electronic calculator
> (1964)
>
> - Busicom 207 punched card programmable electronic calculator
>
> - Altair 8800 with Altair dual 8" disk drives
>
> - IMSAI 8080 kit built in high school as a school project in 1976/1977
>
> - Televideo Personal Terminal
>
> - GE transistorised current loop acoustic coupler modem (110 baud)
>
> - Hewlett Packard 9100A and 9100B programmable electronic calculators
>
> - Tektronix mini-Board Bucket computer and many boards for it (EPROM
> Blaster, TI TMS9918-Based Video Board w/RTC, SASI Interface, 6809 CPU, 6809
> ICE CPU. 32K Static and 64K Dynamic RAM Boards, 300-Baud Modem Board, 5
> 1/4" Floppy Controller
>
> - SWTPC TV Typewriter
>
> - A large format (4'x5') Summagraphics digitizing tablet with GPIB
> interface
>
> - A Tektronix 4052 desktop computer (bit-slice implementation of Motorola
> 6800 CPU) with very rare RAM Disk module installed under keyboard
>
> - Wang Laboratories dual-cassette drive for 700 series calculator
>
> - An old fluorescent-lighted, two sided sign advertising Denon electronic
> calculators
>
> - Some original Digital Equipment System Modules (Used by DEC for making
> some of their early computers)
>
> ---
> Rick Bensene
> The Old Calculator Museum
> http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
>
>
>

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Pete Lancashire via cctalk]

Here is what comes to mind, it may not qualify as a computer. A
Westinghouse Numa-Logic PC700. It is an early PLC. uses a Sinetics 8X300
bit slice. Unfortunately Westinghouse only started to invest in PLCs about
the time the they merged with CBS and in a few years
all of Westinghouse became history.

BTW Looking for parts, manuals, software, the "lug-able" CRT based
programmer, IDE PC interface etc. etc.

Also will get my Allen Bradly PLC with core memory running someday.

-pete

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 11:49 AM, Rick Bensene  wrote:

>
> A selection of some of my more unusual computer-related stuff:
>
> - A Tektronix 4132 Unix workstation  using a National 32016 CPU and a
> 4.2bsd port called UTek
>
> - A Digital Equipment PDP 8/e system with 2 RK05 drives, high speed paper
> tape reader/punch, RX01 Dual 8" floppy drives, 16K of DEC core
> memory(commonly runs with a 32K NVRAM board), 2 serial ports, EAE, RTC,
> Memory Extension/Timeshare board, Diode boot board (RK05 boot)
>
> - Wang 300-series calculator field service parts kit (two wooden
> briefcases)
>
> - Friden 6010 Computyper Diagnostic Console
>
> - Friden Electronics Training Course manuals (1960s)
>
> - Wyle Laboratories WS-02 punched card programmable electronic calculator
> (1964)
>
> - Busicom 207 punched card programmable electronic calculator
>
> - Altair 8800 with Altair dual 8" disk drives
>
> - IMSAI 8080 kit built in high school as a school project in 1976/1977
>
> - Televideo Personal Terminal
>
> - GE transistorised current loop acoustic coupler modem (110 baud)
>
> - Hewlett Packard 9100A and 9100B programmable electronic calculators
>
> - Tektronix mini-Board Bucket computer and many boards for it (EPROM
> Blaster, TI TMS9918-Based Video Board w/RTC, SASI Interface, 6809 CPU, 6809
> ICE CPU. 32K Static and 64K Dynamic RAM Boards, 300-Baud Modem Board, 5
> 1/4" Floppy Controller
>
> - SWTPC TV Typewriter
>
> - A large format (4'x5') Summagraphics digitizing tablet with GPIB
> interface
>
> - A Tektronix 4052 desktop computer (bit-slice implementation of Motorola
> 6800 CPU) with very rare RAM Disk module installed under keyboard
>
> - Wang Laboratories dual-cassette drive for 700 series calculator
>
> - An old fluorescent-lighted, two sided sign advertising Denon electronic
> calculators
>
> - Some original Digital Equipment System Modules (Used by DEC for making
> some of their early computers)
>
> ---
> Rick Bensene
> The Old Calculator Museum
> http://oldcalculatormuseum.com
>
>
>

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Douglas Taylor]

Ed;

He was working for the US Air Force in Washington, DC.  He was not a 
'computer guy', but rather a management person.
When I found the certificate in his papers I realized that that was very 
early in the computer revolution.


I sort of followed in his footsteps and became a physicist at a Gov't 
research laboratory using computers for numerical simulations.


He didn't think much of computers, even published an article in the 
National Enquirer in 1972 with the title "Computers are turning us into 
lame brains".


I always thought that was quite an accomplishment; it is easy to get a 
paper published in a scientific journal, you have to have a really good 
angle to get into the National Enquirer!


Doug

On 1/29/2017 6:58 AM, Ed Sharpe wrote:


Doug ... which sites or state was your dad working on them? Railroad 
owned some IRS too..


Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Saturday, January 28, 2017 Douglas Taylor  
wrote:


I have a certificate that my father was given in 1957 for training on a
Honeywell Datamatic 1000 computer.

Here is a summary of this 'advance' in computer technology from the ACM:

The DATAmatic 1000 (D-1000) is a high-capacity electronic
data-processing system designed specifically for application to the
increasingly complex problems and procedures of present-day business.
The system incorporates significant new systems techniques, as well as
several basically new component developments. One of the outstanding
features of the D-1000 is its ability to feed information from magnetic
tape into the central processor at a sustained rate of 60,000
decimal-digits per second, and to deliver data after processing back to
magnetic tape at this same rate. The operational speed of the central
processor maintains full compatibility with the high speed of
information transfer. Consequently, the difficulties caused by programs
which are either tape limited or processing-time limited do not arise in
the majority of commercial applications of this system.

Doug


On 1/28/2017 4:13 PM, Tony Aiuto wrote:
> I have a Minivac 601, but it is in storage and I am not sure if it is
> working. I'm thinking of restoring it and bringing to VCF East. The 
video

> is not mine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6OA8HfnxxU
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Bob Rosenbloom 
>

> wrote:
>
>> On 1/14/2017 3:49 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:
>>
>>> --snip
>>> I know what you mean about the DC300 carts...what a lousy design...at
>>> least from a longevity standpoint. I've had numerous nightmares 
with those
>>> cartridges in a number of vintage systems that I've got. Broken 
tension
>>> bands, sticky tape...just plain bad stuff. Plus, the tape 
transports in

>>> the 4051/4052 are fussy as can be. I have a 4907 single 8" floppy disk
>>> drive for my 4051, and it works great, but I don't have the proper 
ROMpack
>>> module to use it with the 4052, which apparently needs a different 
ROMpack

>>> than the 4051 to talk to the 4907. So far, such a ROMpack has proven
>>> elusive.
>>>
>>> -Rick
>>>
>> I have the Tektronix 4052/4054 File Manager ROM Packs. Can be seen 
here:

>> http://www.tekmuseum.com/linked/tek_roms1.jpg
>> I should have the documentation on them also. Only problem is they are
>> buried somewhere in a cargo container.
>>
>> Are you still looking for one?
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> --
>> Vintage computers and electronics
>> www.dvq.com 
>> www.tekmuseum.com 
>> www.decmuseum.org 
>>
>>

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Jon Elson]

On 01/29/2017 03:55 AM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
  
see more  on this computer here... and  we have modules  for  this tube

computer we need to photo and more stuff to scan and add.
http://www.smecc.org/honeywell_datamatic_1000.htm
  

Wow, 230 KVA, 67K cubic feet, 170,000 Lbs $2 million 
purchase price!  That's a pretty BIG computer!
I also noticed "good time" of 42 Hrs / week, and an MTBF of 
4.9 Hrs.


Jon

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Ed Sharpe]

Doug ... which sites or state was your dad working on them? Railroad owned some 
IRS too..

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

On Saturday, January 28, 2017 Douglas Taylor  wrote:
I have a certificate that my father was given in 1957 for training on a 
Honeywell Datamatic 1000 computer.

Here is a summary of this 'advance' in computer technology from the ACM:

The DATAmatic 1000 (D-1000) is a high-capacity electronic 
data-processing system designed specifically for application to the 
increasingly complex problems and procedures of present-day business. 
The system incorporates significant new systems techniques, as well as 
several basically new component developments. One of the outstanding 
features of the D-1000 is its ability to feed information from magnetic 
tape into the central processor at a sustained rate of 60,000 
decimal-digits per second, and to deliver data after processing back to 
magnetic tape at this same rate. The operational speed of the central 
processor maintains full compatibility with the high speed of 
information transfer. Consequently, the difficulties caused by programs 
which are either tape limited or processing-time limited do not arise in 
the majority of commercial applications of this system.

Doug


On 1/28/2017 4:13 PM, Tony Aiuto wrote:
> I have a Minivac 601, but it is in storage and I am not sure if it is
> working. I'm thinking of restoring it and bringing to VCF East. The video
> is not mine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6OA8HfnxxU
>
> On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Bob Rosenbloom 
> wrote:
>
>> On 1/14/2017 3:49 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:
>>
>>> --snip
>>> I know what you mean about the DC300 carts...what a lousy design...at
>>> least from a longevity standpoint. I've had numerous nightmares with those
>>> cartridges in a number of vintage systems that I've got. Broken tension
>>> bands, sticky tape...just plain bad stuff. Plus, the tape transports in
>>> the 4051/4052 are fussy as can be. I have a 4907 single 8" floppy disk
>>> drive for my 4051, and it works great, but I don't have the proper ROMpack
>>> module to use it with the 4052, which apparently needs a different ROMpack
>>> than the 4051 to talk to the 4907. So far, such a ROMpack has proven
>>> elusive.
>>>
>>> -Rick
>>>
>> I have the Tektronix 4052/4054 File Manager ROM Packs. Can be seen here:
>> http://www.tekmuseum.com/linked/tek_roms1.jpg
>> I should have the documentation on them also. Only problem is they are
>> buried somewhere in a cargo container.
>>
>> Are you still looking for one?
>>
>> Bob
>>
>>
>> --
>> Vintage computers and electronics
>> www.dvq.com
>> www.tekmuseum.com
>> www.decmuseum.org
>>
>>

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/29/2017 01:55 AM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
>  Honeywell Datamatic 1000  uses 3 inch wide tape
> we have a 3 inch very very heavy reel and  the 30 something  track  tape 
> drive head could this someday be the start of  the  ultimate  DIY tape 
> drive build and tape recover? 
>  
> see more  on this computer here... and  we have modules  for  this tube   
> computer we need to photo and more stuff to scan and add. 
> http://www.smecc.org/honeywell_datamatic_1000.htm

(Apology for the previous null message--hit the wrong button)

The tape used appears to be an early videotape formulation, but wider
than the initial 2 inch format used in Ampex's early machines.  It's a
sandwich affair with the magnetic oxide in the middle of two sheets of
mylar, so it should be pretty durable.

While there are 32 tracks on the tape, they're not used in parallel; a
given word is recorded serially on a track.  A good thing--deskewing 32
tracks would be a real issue for early electronics.The curious thing
about the recording format is that blocks consisting of recorded words
are interlaced with respect to direction.  Thus, every other block is
recorded while moving in a forward direction, while the same holds for
the tape going in the reverse direction.  The general idea is to
minimize wasted space taken up by IRGs.

The tape units were buffered, such that a read could be initiated while
still processing data from a previous read operation.  The programmer
could take advantage of the fact that data from a read operation began
arriving some 200 clocks from read initiation.

All in all, a fascinating view into early design.

--Chuck

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/29/2017 01:55 AM, couryho...@aol.com wrote:
> Doug!  We would like a  scan of your dad's certificate!
>  
> We have  an ongoing collection on this computer  at   SMECC
>  
> 1955 Honeywell computer business was  originated from the Datamatic 
> Corporation, founded in Newton MA, as a  joint-venture by Raytheon and 
> Honeywell, to produce large-scale computer  systems. Raytheon sells its 40% 
> interest 
> to Honeywell in  1957..  1957 Installation of the first Datamatic  D-1000 
> to Blue Cross/Blue Shield of  Michigan.
>  
>  
>  Honeywell Datamatic 1000  uses 3 inch wide tape
> we have a 3 inch very very heavy reel and  the 30 something  track  tape 
> drive head could this someday be the start of  the  ultimate  DIY tape 
> drive build and tape recover? 

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[COURYHOUSE]

Doug!  We would like a  scan of your dad's certificate!
 
We have  an ongoing collection on this computer  at   SMECC
 
1955 Honeywell computer business was  originated from the Datamatic 
Corporation, founded in Newton MA, as a  joint-venture by Raytheon and 
Honeywell, to produce large-scale computer  systems. Raytheon sells its 40% 
interest 
to Honeywell in  1957..  1957 Installation of the first Datamatic  D-1000 
to Blue Cross/Blue Shield of  Michigan.
 
 
 Honeywell Datamatic 1000  uses 3 inch wide tape
we have a 3 inch very very heavy reel and  the 30 something  track  tape 
drive head could this someday be the start of  the  ultimate  DIY tape 
drive build and tape recover? 
 
see more  on this computer here... and  we have modules  for  this tube   
computer we need to photo and more stuff to scan and add. 
http://www.smecc.org/honeywell_datamatic_1000.htm
 
 
 
 
 
In a message dated 1/29/2017 1:27:26 A.M. US Mountain Standard Time,  
billdeg...@gmail.com writes:

On Jan  28, 2017 8:51 PM, "william degnan"   wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2017 8:40 PM, "Chuck Guzis"   wrote:
> >
> > On 01/28/2017 05:12  PM, Douglas Taylor wrote:
> > > I have a certificate that my  father was given in 1957 for training on
> > > a Honeywell  Datamatic 1000 computer.
> > >
> > > Here is a summary  of this 'advance' in computer technology from the
> > >  ACM:
> > >
> > > The DATAmatic 1000 (D-1000) is a  high-capacity electronic
> > > data-processing system designed  specifically for application to the
> > > increasingly complex  problems and procedures of present-day
> > > business. The system  incorporates significant new systems techniques,
> > > as well as  several basically new component developments. One of the
> > >  outstanding features of the D-1000 is its ability to feed information
>  > > from magnetic tape into the central processor at a sustained rate  of
> > > 60,000 decimal-digits per second, and to deliver data  after
> > > processing back to magnetic tape at this same rate.  The operational
> > > speed of the central processor maintains  full compatibility with the
> > > high speed of information  transfer. Consequently, the difficulties
> > > caused by programs  which are either tape limited or processing-time
> > > limited do  not arise in the majority of commercial applications of
> > > this  system.
> >
> > Doug, you can probably re-live part of your  dad's experience.  There 
are
> > some Datamatic 1000 manuals on  bitsavers:
> >
>  >
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/honeywell/datamatic_1000/
>  >
> > Big, wide tape reels.
> >
> >  --Chuck
> >
>
> I am pretty sure I have the first print  of that manual, but I thought
Datamatic was a pre-Burroughs machine not  Honeywell...I am not home to
check, if you'd like me to I can Monday.   That's the base 10 system,
right?  I also have some orig decimal  counter tubes IIRC too.  I suppose
that all qualifies as pretty  rare.  Or I am confusing with a different,
similarly - named  system.
> Bill

Yup I must be mistaken.  Nevermind I'll check  when I get back to my  office

B

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[william degnan]

On Jan 28, 2017 8:51 PM, "william degnan"  wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 28, 2017 8:40 PM, "Chuck Guzis"  wrote:
> >
> > On 01/28/2017 05:12 PM, Douglas Taylor wrote:
> > > I have a certificate that my father was given in 1957 for training on
> > > a Honeywell Datamatic 1000 computer.
> > >
> > > Here is a summary of this 'advance' in computer technology from the
> > > ACM:
> > >
> > > The DATAmatic 1000 (D-1000) is a high-capacity electronic
> > > data-processing system designed specifically for application to the
> > > increasingly complex problems and procedures of present-day
> > > business. The system incorporates significant new systems techniques,
> > > as well as several basically new component developments. One of the
> > > outstanding features of the D-1000 is its ability to feed information
> > > from magnetic tape into the central processor at a sustained rate of
> > > 60,000 decimal-digits per second, and to deliver data after
> > > processing back to magnetic tape at this same rate. The operational
> > > speed of the central processor maintains full compatibility with the
> > > high speed of information transfer. Consequently, the difficulties
> > > caused by programs which are either tape limited or processing-time
> > > limited do not arise in the majority of commercial applications of
> > > this system.
> >
> > Doug, you can probably re-live part of your dad's experience.  There are
> > some Datamatic 1000 manuals on bitsavers:
> >
> >
http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/honeywell/datamatic_1000/
> >
> > Big, wide tape reels.
> >
> > --Chuck
> >
>
> I am pretty sure I have the first print of that manual, but I thought
Datamatic was a pre-Burroughs machine not Honeywell...I am not home to
check, if you'd like me to I can Monday.  That's the base 10 system,
right?  I also have some orig decimal counter tubes IIRC too.  I suppose
that all qualifies as pretty rare.  Or I am confusing with a different,
similarly - named system.
> Bill

Yup I must be mistaken.  Nevermind I'll check when I get back to my office

B

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Chuck Guzis]

On 01/28/2017 05:12 PM, Douglas Taylor wrote:
> I have a certificate that my father was given in 1957 for training on
> a Honeywell Datamatic 1000 computer.
> 
> Here is a summary of this 'advance' in computer technology from the
> ACM:
> 
> The DATAmatic 1000 (D-1000) is a high-capacity electronic 
> data-processing system designed specifically for application to the 
> increasingly complex problems and procedures of present-day
> business. The system incorporates significant new systems techniques,
> as well as several basically new component developments. One of the
> outstanding features of the D-1000 is its ability to feed information
> from magnetic tape into the central processor at a sustained rate of
> 60,000 decimal-digits per second, and to deliver data after
> processing back to magnetic tape at this same rate. The operational
> speed of the central processor maintains full compatibility with the
> high speed of information transfer. Consequently, the difficulties
> caused by programs which are either tape limited or processing-time
> limited do not arise in the majority of commercial applications of
> this system.

Doug, you can probably re-live part of your dad's experience.  There are
some Datamatic 1000 manuals on bitsavers:

http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/honeywell/datamatic_1000/

Big, wide tape reels.

--Chuck

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[william degnan]

On Jan 28, 2017 8:40 PM, "Chuck Guzis"  wrote:
>
> On 01/28/2017 05:12 PM, Douglas Taylor wrote:
> > I have a certificate that my father was given in 1957 for training on
> > a Honeywell Datamatic 1000 computer.
> >
> > Here is a summary of this 'advance' in computer technology from the
> > ACM:
> >
> > The DATAmatic 1000 (D-1000) is a high-capacity electronic
> > data-processing system designed specifically for application to the
> > increasingly complex problems and procedures of present-day
> > business. The system incorporates significant new systems techniques,
> > as well as several basically new component developments. One of the
> > outstanding features of the D-1000 is its ability to feed information
> > from magnetic tape into the central processor at a sustained rate of
> > 60,000 decimal-digits per second, and to deliver data after
> > processing back to magnetic tape at this same rate. The operational
> > speed of the central processor maintains full compatibility with the
> > high speed of information transfer. Consequently, the difficulties
> > caused by programs which are either tape limited or processing-time
> > limited do not arise in the majority of commercial applications of
> > this system.
>
> Doug, you can probably re-live part of your dad's experience.  There are
> some Datamatic 1000 manuals on bitsavers:
>
> http://bitsavers.informatik.uni-stuttgart.de/pdf/honeywell/datamatic_1000/
>
> Big, wide tape reels.
>
> --Chuck
>

I am pretty sure I have the first print of that manual, but I thought
Datamatic was a pre-Burroughs machine not Honeywell...I am not home to
check, if you'd like me to I can Monday.  That's the base 10 system,
right?  I also have some orig decimal counter tubes IIRC too.  I suppose
that all qualifies as pretty rare.  Or I am confusing with a different,
similarly - named system.
Bill

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Douglas Taylor]

I have a certificate that my father was given in 1957 for training on a 
Honeywell Datamatic 1000 computer.


Here is a summary of this 'advance' in computer technology from the ACM:

The DATAmatic 1000 (D-1000) is a high-capacity electronic 
data-processing system designed specifically for application to the 
increasingly complex problems and procedures of present-day business. 
The system incorporates significant new systems techniques, as well as 
several basically new component developments. One of the outstanding 
features of the D-1000 is its ability to feed information from magnetic 
tape into the central processor at a sustained rate of 60,000 
decimal-digits per second, and to deliver data after processing back to 
magnetic tape at this same rate. The operational speed of the central 
processor maintains full compatibility with the high speed of 
information transfer. Consequently, the difficulties caused by programs 
which are either tape limited or processing-time limited do not arise in 
the majority of commercial applications of this system.


Doug


On 1/28/2017 4:13 PM, Tony Aiuto wrote:

I have a Minivac 601, but it is in storage and I am not sure if it is
working. I'm thinking of restoring it and bringing to VCF East.  The video
is not mine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6OA8HfnxxU

On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Bob Rosenbloom 
wrote:


On 1/14/2017 3:49 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:


--snip
I know what you mean about the DC300 carts...what a lousy design...at
least from a longevity standpoint.  I've had numerous nightmares with those
cartridges in a number of vintage systems that I've got.Broken tension
bands, sticky tape...just plain bad stuff.   Plus, the tape transports in
the 4051/4052 are fussy as can be.   I have a 4907 single 8" floppy disk
drive for my 4051, and it works great, but I don't have the proper ROMpack
module to use it with the 4052, which apparently needs a different ROMpack
than the 4051 to talk to the 4907.  So far, such a ROMpack has proven
elusive.

-Rick


I have the Tektronix 4052/4054 File Manager ROM Packs. Can be seen here:
http://www.tekmuseum.com/linked/tek_roms1.jpg
I should have the documentation on them also. Only problem is they are
buried somewhere in a cargo container.

Are you still looking for one?

Bob


--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Tony Aiuto]

I have a Minivac 601, but it is in storage and I am not sure if it is
working. I'm thinking of restoring it and bringing to VCF East.  The video
is not mine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6OA8HfnxxU

On Sat, Jan 28, 2017 at 1:13 PM, Bob Rosenbloom 
wrote:

> On 1/14/2017 3:49 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:
>
>> --snip
>> I know what you mean about the DC300 carts...what a lousy design...at
>> least from a longevity standpoint.  I've had numerous nightmares with those
>> cartridges in a number of vintage systems that I've got.Broken tension
>> bands, sticky tape...just plain bad stuff.   Plus, the tape transports in
>> the 4051/4052 are fussy as can be.   I have a 4907 single 8" floppy disk
>> drive for my 4051, and it works great, but I don't have the proper ROMpack
>> module to use it with the 4052, which apparently needs a different ROMpack
>> than the 4051 to talk to the 4907.  So far, such a ROMpack has proven
>> elusive.
>>
>> -Rick
>>
>
> I have the Tektronix 4052/4054 File Manager ROM Packs. Can be seen here:
> http://www.tekmuseum.com/linked/tek_roms1.jpg
> I should have the documentation on them also. Only problem is they are
> buried somewhere in a cargo container.
>
> Are you still looking for one?
>
> Bob
>
>
> --
> Vintage computers and electronics
> www.dvq.com
> www.tekmuseum.com
> www.decmuseum.org
>
>

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Bob Rosenbloom]

On 1/14/2017 3:49 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:

--snip
I know what you mean about the DC300 carts...what a lousy design...at least from a 
longevity standpoint.  I've had numerous nightmares with those cartridges in a 
number of vintage systems that I've got.Broken tension bands, sticky tape...just 
plain bad stuff.   Plus, the tape transports in the 4051/4052 are fussy as can be.   
I have a 4907 single 8" floppy disk drive for my 4051, and it works great, but 
I don't have the proper ROMpack module to use it with the 4052, which apparently 
needs a different ROMpack than the 4051 to talk to the 4907.  So far, such a ROMpack 
has proven elusive.

-Rick


I have the Tektronix 4052/4054 File Manager ROM Packs. Can be seen here: 
http://www.tekmuseum.com/linked/tek_roms1.jpg
I should have the documentation on them also. Only problem is they are 
buried somewhere in a cargo container.


Are you still looking for one?

Bob


--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item, do you own?

[Gary Kaufman]

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

Probably the rarest computer-related item I have is a 7AD7 flip/flop module 
from the Whirlwind I Computer.

I'm also rather fond of my Intel Intellec4 System.  I also have an Intel 
Intellec 4/40.

- Gary

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Jon Elson]

On 01/19/2017 09:30 AM, geneb wrote:


If there's only one mirror, he's missing most of it then.  
A Wide Angle Collimator (what they call the "single 
channel" displays) has a partially-reflective first 
surface mirror at a 45 degree angle (the beam splitter) 
and a special curved mirror directly in front of it.
Front, as in toward the front of the aircraft.  Yes, I'd 
forgotten about the beam splitter.  But, I'm sure he DOES 
have that, too.

The display is positioned above the beam splitter.
In his case, for mechanical reasons, he put the display 
below the beam splitter/curved mirror.
  The light path goes down from the crt, is reflected off 
the beam splitter into the mirror and then straight at the 
viewpoint for the user (passing through the beam splitter 
again). That process robs 50-75% of the light that goes 
into it from the CRT.  That's why WACs are really only 
good for night time visuals.


Well, once you are in the closed, dark environment, you 
could do daytime visuals but at reduced light levels, should 
be FINE for a home sim.



Take a look at the "Go Collimated or Go Home" link in my 
sig.  I designed a 737-sized one of those for a friend.  
He built it and uses it with FlightGear.


Ahh, yes, YOU are the guy with the F-15 front end!  Yes, we 
know OF you!

And, yes, FlightGear is completely amazing.

Jon

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[geneb]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2017, Jon Elson wrote:

Well, the aviation community is just INSANE over liability.  And, since the 
outfit that makes the wing marker lights gets sued many times when a light 
plane goes down, even though the cause was pilot error, engine failure, 
instrument failure, running out of fuel, etc. they STILL get sued.


So, I can imagine maybe some plane goes down, and they'd get sued because the 
pilot trained on an uncertified simulator that was cobbled together after a 
surplus purchase.


While I agree that aviation is fed on by lawyers, that wouldn't have been 
a reaons for Boeing's actions in this case.


The simulator would have had to have been re-certified by the FAA (and they 
might not have grandfathered it a 2nd time) in order for any pilot to have 
logged time in it.  No instructor pilot that's rated ATP or higher for 
that type would instruct on it without that certification.


It would be interesting to try if nothing else.  The LCD may not throw 
enough light out to make it readable in a WAC.  Not sure.
It would work FINE!  His sim was a box, so you were in quite dark conditions. 
Some LCDs can actually get pretty bright, and his CRT was not unusually 
bright.  So, I'm sure it would work fine.  These are SMALL mirrors, not for 
the giant wall-size displays, and direct-view.
So, the CRT is facing up, the mirror above it, and you just look into the 
mirror through about a 2' x 2' aperture.  Perfect for a home simulator.


If there's only one mirror, he's missing most of it then.  A Wide Angle 
Collimator (what they call the "single channel" displays) has a 
partially-reflective first surface mirror at a 45 degree angle (the beam 
splitter) and a special curved mirror directly in front of it.  The 
display is positioned above the beam splitter.  The light path goes down 
from the crt, is reflected off the beam splitter into the mirror and then 
straight at the viewpoint for the user (passing through the beam splitter 
again).  That process robs 50-75% of the light that goes into it from the 
CRT.  That's why WACs are really only good for night time visuals.


Here's an example of what a four channel WAC looks like:
http://flightweb.simpits.org/BehindTheScenes/737sim_page4.html

Take a look at the "Go Collimated or Go Home" link in my sig.  I designed 
a 737-sized one of those for a friend.  He built it and uses it with 
FlightGear.


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[William Maddox]

> From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck
> Guzis
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 9:09 AM
> ...
> I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer area
> seems to be gear of major brands.
> 
> Does anyone collect Varian minis?
> Or General Automation?
> Or any one of the many non-DEC, HP, etc. minis?  Heck, I don't read much
> about DG minis  on this list--and they were a major force

I collect minor-brand scientific and industrial minis as well as DEC, DG,
and HP:  Varian 620/I and 620/L, GA SPC-12,  Computer Automation LSI-2 and
Alpha-16, Honeywell Series 16.   Also DG Nova stuff, including a couple of
complete systems.

--Bill

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Jon Elson]

On 01/18/2017 12:45 PM, geneb wrote:

On Wed, 18 Jan 2017, Jon Elson wrote:



Wow, kind of surprised they were concerned about that.  
Especially a 727 sim, who the heck is still flying THOSE??


They're pretty common in South America and some 3rd world 
countries.  I suspect it was 90% Boeing being a dick and 
10% because they could.


Well, the aviation community is just INSANE over liability.  
And, since the outfit that makes the wing marker lights gets 
sued many times when a light plane goes down, even though 
the cause was pilot error, engine failure, instrument 
failure, running out of fuel, etc. they STILL get sued.


So, I can imagine maybe some plane goes down, and they'd get 
sued because the pilot trained on an uncertified simulator 
that was cobbled together after a surplus purchase.


A friend of mine got 4 mirrors out of Vital II sims, and 
has one on a large X-Y display.  He wrote a sim program 
that ran on a Data General Nova clone (he built it 
himself, not a commercial clone). It is no longer 
working, some stuff went up in smoke last time he turned 
it on.  But, would be great to put a giant LCD monitor on 
those mirrors and use it with FlightGear.


It would be interesting to try if nothing else.  The LCD 
may not throw enough light out to make it readable in a 
WAC.  Not sure.
It would work FINE!  His sim was a box, so you were in quite 
dark conditions.  Some LCDs can actually get pretty bright, 
and his CRT was not unusually bright.  So, I'm sure it would 
work fine.  These are SMALL mirrors, not for the giant 
wall-size displays, and direct-view.
So, the CRT is facing up, the mirror above it, and you just 
look into the mirror through about a 2' x 2' aperture.  
Perfect for a home simulator.


Jon

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Mike Stein]

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Woolsey" <j...@jlw.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 2:59 PM
Subject: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?


> On 1/18/17 5:57 AM, Mike Stein wrote:
>> A fine relatively rare machine, but not very useful without the other half, 
>> alas...  ;-( 
> Quite.   I did have the other half for a while, and it worked as well as
> we (philistines--college students having fun) thought it could.  We'd
> had enough fun with it and decided there wasn't anything more
> constructive to do with it, so we did destructive things to it.   We
> took it to pieces to see all the neat stuff in it.  I still have a
> couple parts, one being a cylindrical structure with lots of shafts and
> gears, and another being a short chain on a sprocket wheel/axle that is
> something to keep your hands busy when bored.
--
Yeah; that's basically a series F machine which was an incredibly complicated 
system of up to 18 mechanical registers and an accumulator and all the 
associated levers, springs and things. Had four of those and actually used one 
to compile a hit parade list for a radio program for a while...

For the E series they replaced the mechanical registers with rotary readout 
switches and moved the storage, calculation and programming to the electronic 
adjunct that you still have.

Although they were different in the sense that they were operated directly from 
the keyboard instead of from punched cards, they were similar in many ways to 
IBM unit record machines of the day; they both were decimal machines where 
numbers were represented by what part of the machine 'cycle' all the various 
gears or readouts were in. In the IBM world there were also electronic 
calculating adjuncts (602/604) but, being older, they used tubes.

It really is a shame that this area of early computing is so poorly 
documented... 

>> http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Burroughs/Burroughs.E1400.1966.102646238.pdf
> That's where I found out what model it was, though the printset differs.
>>
>> The processor cabinets make nice work tables though...
>>
> Mine's just holding stuff off the ground for now.
-
Actually, so are mine; one is holding up four heavy Cromemco boxes and two 
others are desks for Commodore PETs and Compaq servers...

m

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Jeff Woolsey]

On 1/18/17 5:57 AM, Mike Stein wrote:
> A fine relatively rare machine, but not very useful without the other half, 
> alas...  ;-( 
Quite.   I did have the other half for a while, and it worked as well as
we (philistines--college students having fun) thought it could.  We'd
had enough fun with it and decided there wasn't anything more
constructive to do with it, so we did destructive things to it.   We
took it to pieces to see all the neat stuff in it.  I still have a
couple parts, one being a cylindrical structure with lots of shafts and
gears, and another being a short chain on a sprocket wheel/axle that is
something to keep your hands busy when bored.
>
> http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Burroughs/Burroughs.E1400.1966.102646238.pdf
That's where I found out what model it was, though the printset differs.
>
> The processor cabinets make nice work tables though...
>
Mine's just holding stuff off the ground for now.


-- 
Jeff Woolsey {{woolsey,jlw}@jlw,first.last@{gmail,jlw}}.com
Nature abhors straight antennas, clean lenses, and empty storage.
"Delete! Delete! OK!" -Dr. Bronner on disk space management
Card-sorting, Joel.  -Crow on solitaire

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[geneb]

On Wed, 18 Jan 2017, Jon Elson wrote:

Conductron-Missouri was an outfit that may have been started by ex-McDonnell 
people, and did a large portion of their business supplying electronic 
systems to McDonnell.  It was later bought by McDonnell, and became McDonnell 
Douglas Electronics Co.

Ahh, ok.

Wow, kind of surprised they were concerned about that.  Especially a 727 sim, 
who the heck is still flying THOSE??


They're pretty common in South America and some 3rd world countries.  I 
suspect it was 90% Boeing being a dick and 10% because they could.


A friend of mine got 4 mirrors out of Vital II sims, and has one on a large 
X-Y display.  He wrote a sim program that ran on a Data General Nova clone 
(he built it himself, not a commercial clone). It is no longer working, some 
stuff went up in smoke last time he turned it on.  But, would be great to put 
a giant LCD monitor on those mirrors and use it with FlightGear.


It would be interesting to try if nothing else.  The LCD may not throw 
enough light out to make it readable in a WAC.  Not sure.


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Jon Elson]

On 01/18/2017 07:08 AM, geneb wrote:

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Jon Elson wrote:


On 01/17/2017 01:50 PM, geneb wrote:


I used to work on a 727 flight simulator that used a 
Varian 620 to generate the visuals.  The display was 
capable of addressing 1024 points of light and that's 
how the runways and airport outline were drawn. Pretty 
neat stuff.  Here's some pics of the system that ran the 
sim:
http://flightweb.simpits.org/BehindTheScenes/727sim_page1.html 

Was that a McDonnell Vital system?  That's where the 
Varian I had came from. Vital II had stroke writing and 
variable beam width, ideal for painting the runway, 
stripes, numbers, etc.


It's a Vital I.  I don't recall a McDonnell branding 
though.  I _think_ the 727-100 sim was built by 
Conductron-Missouri, which was the same company that build 
the 737-200 that was located in the next room.


Conductron-Missouri was an outfit that may have been started 
by ex-McDonnell people, and did a large portion of their 
business supplying electronic systems to McDonnell.  It was 
later bought by McDonnell, and became McDonnell Douglas 
Electronics Co.


The sad thing is, both sims are gone.  Simulator Training 
went bankrupt due to the aviation industry disruption 
caused by 9/11. A guy from Boeing/Alteon showed up with a 
corporate credit card. I didn't have the resources to bid 
against him. :( The 727 went for $1200 and the $737 went
for $1500. Both sims were fully operational and both were 
purposefully destroyed after purchase.


Wow, kind of surprised they were concerned about that.  
Especially a 727 sim, who the heck is still flying THOSE??


A friend of mine got 4 mirrors out of Vital II sims, and has 
one on a large X-Y display.  He wrote a sim program that ran 
on a Data General Nova clone (he built it himself, not a 
commercial clone). It is no longer working, some stuff went 
up in smoke last time he turned it on.  But, would be great 
to put a giant LCD monitor on those mirrors and use it with 
FlightGear.


Jon

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Jon Elson]

On 01/17/2017 06:16 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

It is a typo .. should have been 50

Upside down on the basement floor

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7885


Ahh, the 360/50, I knew it well.  Maybe, too well!  But, I 
always thought the /50 and /65 were just about the classiest 
front panels around!


Jon

Re: Varian, GA was: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Al Kossow]

good. I'm glad it wasn't recycled.


On 1/18/17 1:43 AM, Christian Corti wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Al Kossow wrote:
>> let me see what I can get to on it. we got a ton of stuff from the stuff we 
>> bought in Germany
> 
> That is where our GA stuff comes from ;-)
> So probably you could have manuals and software for the SPC-16.
> 
> Christian

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:58:11AM -0800, Alan Frisbie wrote:
> I just joined this list, so I'm not sure which of the items I own
> would be considered by this group to be rare or unusual, but here
> goes...
> 
> Imlac PDS-1D graphics terminal, with the large screen and detached
> keyboard.   Also a second one with the small screen and attached
> keyboard, but the chassis and cards are suitable only for parts.

I think that counts as pretty rare. I know one othe list member has a 
PDS.

> DEC VS60/GT48 graphics display (goes with my PDP-11/34)

This is definitely rare also :)

> All of this was operating here at one time or another, but the
> clutter has become so bad that it is difficult to get them connected
> (or even get at them) these days.

Ouch, it can be surprisingly much work to get out of :(

> I recently retired, so my #1 job now is getting rid of all the stuff
> I accumulated over my almost 50 years in the computer industry.   I
> have three rental storage units full of stuff and the cost is
> killing me!   Is it OK to post ads on this list?

Definitely. I don't think it will be difficult to find buyers for the 
things listed above.

I wouldn't mind a PDS for myself, but I will not afford it :)

/P

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Mike Stein]

A fine relatively rare machine, but not very useful without the other half, 
alas...  ;-( 

http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/Burroughs/Burroughs.E1400.1966.102646238.pdf

An interesting branch of early computing that's largely ignored; the E series 
was an electronic replacement for the electro-mechanical F series; it was 
ultimately replaced by the all-electronic L series and finally the B80 merged 
the 'accounting machine' computers into the general-purpose computer world.

I scrapped several E series machines years ago but kept most of the cards and a 
PPT perforator.

The processor cabinets make nice work tables though...

m

- Original Message - 
From: "Jeff Woolsey" <j...@jlw.com>
To: "General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts" <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?


> On 1/15/17 8:58 PM, Jeff Woolsey wrote:
>> Burroughts E1400 deskside unit for the accounting machine.  It's 1966
>> vintage, and has a couple core planes.  I have the printset, too.  It
>> makes a dandy table, and hasn't seen any moving electrons (or holes) for
>> 30 years.  The local museum refused it, though.
>>
> I forgot that I had photos of this thing online somewhere:
> 
> http://www.jlw.com/retro/slafmac/
> 
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Woolsey {{woolsey,jlw}@jlw,first.last@{gmail,jlw}}.com
> Nature abhors straight antennas, clean lenses, and empty storage.
> "Delete! Delete! OK!" -Dr. Bronner on disk space management
> Card-sorting, Joel.  -Crow on solitaire
>

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[geneb]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Jon Elson wrote:


On 01/17/2017 01:50 PM, geneb wrote:


I used to work on a 727 flight simulator that used a Varian 620 to generate 
the visuals.  The display was capable of addressing 1024 points of light 
and that's how the runways and airport outline were drawn. Pretty neat 
stuff.  Here's some pics of the system that ran the sim:
http://flightweb.simpits.org/BehindTheScenes/727sim_page1.html 

Was that a McDonnell Vital system?  That's where the Varian I had came from. 
Vital II had stroke writing and variable beam width, ideal for painting the 
runway, stripes, numbers, etc.


It's a Vital I.  I don't recall a McDonnell branding though.  I _think_ 
the 727-100 sim was built by Conductron-Missouri, which was the same 
company that build the 737-200 that was located in the next room.



Yeah, I think the rack cabinet I have matches the one in your photo.


Nice!

The sad thing is, both sims are gone.  Simulator Training went bankrupt 
due to the aviation industry disruption caused by 9/11.  A guy from 
Boeing/Alteon showed up with a corporate credit card.  I didn't have 
the resources to bid against him. :( The 727 went for $1200 and the $737 went
for $1500. Both sims were fully operational and both were purposefully 
destroyed after purchase.


g.

--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[steven]

A few more things I have, that I just thought of.

A plastic brightness control knob from an IBM 5110 portable computer.
I removed this a few seconds before I was tasked to smash it and half a dozen 
others to bits.
First thing to be done was to 'de-louse' the CRTs by knocking the glass pip off 
the end with a screwdriver,
then check and remove any capacitors that might have contained PCB, to be 
placed in a tough
plastic bag for incineration. I don't recall if the 5110 had any caps like 
that, but other old equipment did.
This was back in 1982, I was doing work experience at IBM and we had to scrap a 
pile of (financially)
written-off gear prior to going to the scrap metal place. I also got a 3330(?) 
head. I have never gotten
over the 5110's to this day.

Bill Gates autograph. Bill was on a visit to Sydney back in the early 90s to 
spruik Microsoft's
involvement with IBM in working on OS/2. I happened to be sitting in the front 
row of the auditorium
and when he finished speaking, his 'minder' the CEO of Microsoft Australia 
immediately ushered him
to the doors.
I reached into my work bag and grabbed my well-worn copy of the Windows 3.1 
Developers Guide,
a pen, and ran to the door. I shoved the book in his face and to the annoyance 
of the CEO he
graciously signed it 'Best Regards, Bill Gates'. :)

IBM 3420 tape drive.  I threw a low bid on this, expecting to be outbid. It was 
getting near the end of
the auction and I was having second thoughts about it, as it was two states 
away and I had found out
how much these things weigh. I was desperately hoping to be outbid but I ended 
up with it. The seller
wanted it 'outta here' between Xmas and New Year, so I then had to get it 
shipped interstate in that period,
and I was away from home to compound the situation. I managed to do get it done 
using a furniture
backloader, those guys almost did their backs in trying to unload it at my 
mother's place, in the summer
heat. She gave them a beer for their efforts.

Steve.

Re: Varian, GA was: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Christian Corti]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Al Kossow wrote:
let me see what I can get to on it. we got a ton of stuff from the stuff 
we bought in Germany


That is where our GA stuff comes from ;-)
So probably you could have manuals and software for the SPC-16.

Christian

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Christian Corti]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Chuck Guzis wrote:

I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer
area seems to be gear of major brands.


Me too :-)


Does anyone collect Varian minis?


Yes! We have a couple of Varian 620/f (some with expansion boxes)


Or General Automation?


Yes!! We have an SPC-16/65 that I really would like to restore, but I lack 
a) all kind of documents/schematics/software and b) the memory board. I 
could probably build a replacement for the memory board if I had the 
technical documentation for the machine.
We also have the FPs and boards of two GA16-2?? (I know that someone has 
the CPU boxes and racks where these came from but I don't recall who it 
was).



Or any one of the many non-DEC, HP, etc. minis?  Heck, I don't read much
about DG minis  on this list--and they were a major force.


Dietz MINCAL 523; a micro-programmed 19 bit minicomputer with foil 
micro-/macroprogram ROM (micro and macro programs share the same 
address and data bus) and a mixture of sign/magnitude and twos-complement 
arithmetic. It was *great* fun to reverse enginere just *everything* from 
the confuse backplane wiring (no bus) to recreating the mnemonics and 
disassembling the monitor and microcode.


Christian

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Pete Lancashire]

It is a typo .. should have been 50

Upside down on the basement floor

http://petelancashire.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=7885

waiting to be mounted. I do not have a the original IBM 360 aluminum
name plate, but got one of eBay, in not so good shape, plans are to
have a new one done at a local anodizing shop

-pete

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 8:22 AM, Jon Elson  wrote:
> On 01/16/2017 03:02 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:
>>
>> Currently about the only thing remaining I would come close to being
>> rare is a IBM 360/55 Front panel, spent $300+100 shipping in the early
>> to mid 90's for it.
>>
> Hmm, what's a 360/55?  I know the 360/50 and the 360/65 quite well. Seems
> there is some mention of a /55, but what is different about it from a model
> 50?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jon
>

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Jeff Woolsey]

On 1/15/17 8:58 PM, Jeff Woolsey wrote:
> Burroughts E1400 deskside unit for the accounting machine.  It's 1966
> vintage, and has a couple core planes.  I have the printset, too.  It
> makes a dandy table, and hasn't seen any moving electrons (or holes) for
> 30 years.  The local museum refused it, though.
>
I forgot that I had photos of this thing online somewhere:

http://www.jlw.com/retro/slafmac/


-- 
Jeff Woolsey {{woolsey,jlw}@jlw,first.last@{gmail,jlw}}.com
Nature abhors straight antennas, clean lenses, and empty storage.
"Delete! Delete! OK!" -Dr. Bronner on disk space management
Card-sorting, Joel.  -Crow on solitaire

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Jon Elson]

On 01/17/2017 01:50 PM, geneb wrote:


I used to work on a 727 flight simulator that used a 
Varian 620 to generate the visuals.  The display was 
capable of addressing 1024 points of light and that's how 
the runways and airport outline were drawn. Pretty neat 
stuff.  Here's some pics of the system that ran the sim:
http://flightweb.simpits.org/BehindTheScenes/727sim_page1.html 



Was that a McDonnell Vital system?  That's where the Varian 
I had came from.  Vital II had stroke writing and variable 
beam width, ideal for painting the runway, stripes, numbers, 
etc.


Yeah, I think the rack cabinet I have matches the one in 
your photo.


Jon

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Paul Anderson]

Last year I picked up some documentation on the PDP16  family. Does anyone
have any hardware, docs, software or knowledge on it?

I have not had much time to look at it since I got it, and want to see how
it compares to my PDP14 items.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 5:49 PM, Ethan Dicks  wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Jerry Weiss  wrote:
> >
> >> On Jan 17, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Alan Frisbie 
> wrote:
> >> I just joined this list, so I'm not sure which of the items I own
> >> would be considered by this group to be rare or unusual, but here
> >> goes…
> >>
> > Hi Alan,
> >
> > Nice to see you on the list.   If memory serves me correctly, you
> presented
> > a talk on (very) high speed data acquisition at DECUS a few decades ago.
>
> I might have been in the audience for that talk...
>
> >> DEC RKV11D Q-Bus controller for RK05 disks (on my LSI-11/73 system)
> >> Originally, it only supported 16-bit addressing, but I added the
> >> chip and wires to make it support 18-bit addressing.   I have never
> >> even heard of another of these controllers, so I assume it is rare.
>
> Cool.  Is that mod documented (on-line, that is... not just on some
> 35-year-old paper)?  I have an RKV11D that I've used under RT-11 with
> 16-bit memory... love to put it on a larger machine.
>
> Good luck on posting your stuff.  I'm far away so I'm not likely to be
> interested in anything huge and heavy, but I'll take a peek.
>
> Cheers,
>
> -ethan
>

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [eBay warning]

[william degnan]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 5:48 PM, Mark Linimon  wrote:

> > Does anyone collect Varian minis?
>
> Oddly I was shown this eBay ad when looking at Al's latest post.  Don't
> know if anyone else spotted it.
>
> Machine looks nice but far, far, out of my price range:
>
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-VARIAN-DATA-MACHINES-
> 620-L-100-COMPUTER-620L100-620-L100/311466122329?_trksid=
> p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%
> 3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40757%26meid%3D1f25f0b7eb4847ad960f4d83c951
> daa4%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D351959392585
>
> mcl
>


Been on ebay for year(s)

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [eBay warning]

[Mark Linimon]

sorry, I see that someone else had already posted this.

I'm only about 100 messages behind on the list.

mcl

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [eBay warning]

[Mark Linimon]

> Does anyone collect Varian minis?

Oddly I was shown this eBay ad when looking at Al's latest post.  Don't
know if anyone else spotted it.

Machine looks nice but far, far, out of my price range:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-VARIAN-DATA-MACHINES-620-L-100-COMPUTER-620L100-620-L100/311466122329?_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40757%26meid%3D1f25f0b7eb4847ad960f4d83c951daa4%26pid%3D100011%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D351959392585

mcl

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Pete Lancashire]

I had a DG Nova (guess one could call it a Nova 1) Loaned it to who I
though was a friend, he vanished one day. The Nova showed up at a
local surplus store but even though I had proof it was mine, I had the
release letter from the company I worked for and got it from, he would
not even sell it to me.

Had one maybe two unused development boards and an extender, and a few
tapes, one being BASIC.

Interesting instruction format

-pete

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
> I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer
> area seems to be gear of major brands.
>
> Does anyone collect Varian minis?
> Or General Automation?
> Or any one of the many non-DEC, HP, etc. minis?  Heck, I don't read much
> about DG minis  on this list--and they were a major force.
>
> --Chuck
>
>

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Tony Duell]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 6:58 PM, Alan Frisbie  wrote:
> I just joined this list, so I'm not sure which of the items I own
> would be considered by this group to be rare or unusual, but here
> goes...

Don't I remember you from vmsnet.pdp11 or comp.sys.dec?



> DEC RKV11D Q-Bus controller for RK05 disks (on my LSI-11/73 system)
> Originally, it only supported 16-bit addressing, but I added the
> chip and wires to make it support 18-bit addressing.   I have never
> even heard of another of these controllers, so I assume it is rare.

They're not common. I have one (not modified for 18 bit addressing).



>  Is it OK to post ads on this list?

Yes, AFAIK. An early FAQ for this list specifically allowed ads (for
sale and wanted) and I don't think that has changed. Provided said
ads are related to classic computing of course.

-tony

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Jerry Weiss]

> On Jan 17, 2017, at 12:58 PM, Alan Frisbie  wrote:
> 
> I just joined this list, so I'm not sure which of the items I own
> would be considered by this group to be rare or unusual, but here
> goes…
> 

Hi Alan,

Nice to see you on the list.   If memory serves me correctly, you presented 
a talk on (very) high speed data acquisition at DECUS a few decades ago.   

> DEC RKV11D Q-Bus controller for RK05 disks (on my LSI-11/73 system)
> Originally, it only supported 16-bit addressing, but I added the
> chip and wires to make it support 18-bit addressing.   I have never
> even heard of another of these controllers, so I assume it is rare.
> 
There was also a third party Q-Bus controller that handled 18 bit DMA.
I don’t recall the vendor, but I remember using in on Diablo RK03’s.

I once upgraded a DEC DR11B in a smilier fashion.  It was 18bit addressable,
but would not transfer across a 32Kbyte boundary.   After reviewing the prints
it turned out to be very easy to add another counter chip fix this.  I glued to 
another
chip dead bug style (downside up) and soldered a few wires.   I always liked 
the ability to improve things.

> 
> I recently retired, so my #1 job now is getting rid of all the stuff
> I accumulated over my almost 50 years in the computer industry.   I
> have three rental storage units full of stuff and the cost is
> killing me!   Is it OK to post ads on this list?
> 
> Alan Frisbie
> 


I actually accumulating more as I semi-retire.   If they don’t let you
post, let us know where you will be listing things.

Regards,
Jerry 
j...@ieee.org

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 17, 2017, at 2:50 PM, geneb  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Jon Elson wrote:
> 
>> On 01/17/2017 11:09 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:
>>> I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer
>>> area seems to be gear of major brands.
>>> Does anyone collect Varian minis?
>> I had a Varian 620F a long time ago.  It was a whole bunch of wire-wrap 
>> boards.  It sort of tried to work, but was very flaky.  I was able to store 
>> some words into the core memory, but it seemed like every couple minutes it 
>> would zero out a word or two (I guess it was failing to write back the 
>> contents after the destructive readout.)  Without schematics, it was 
>> impossible to do much about it.
> 
> I used to work on a 727 flight simulator that used a Varian 620 to generate 
> the visuals.  The display was capable of addressing 1024 points of light and 
> that's how the runways and airport outline were drawn. Pretty neat stuff.  
> Here's some pics of the system that ran the sim:
> http://flightweb.simpits.org/BehindTheScenes/727sim_page1.html

Nice.

I saw (but never used) a Varian 16 bit mini in college.  Forgot the model 
number; I used to have the handbook but it seems to have been lost.  It was 
used because of its microprogramming capabilities.  The control panel was 
unusual: lights and switches basically, but the switches were membrane 
push-buttons.  So the entire front panel was a smooth surface.

paul

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[geneb]

On Tue, 17 Jan 2017, Jon Elson wrote:


On 01/17/2017 11:09 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer
area seems to be gear of major brands.

Does anyone collect Varian minis?
I had a Varian 620F a long time ago.  It was a whole bunch of wire-wrap 
boards.  It sort of tried to work, but was very flaky.  I was able to store 
some words into the core memory, but it seemed like every couple minutes it 
would zero out a word or two (I guess it was failing to write back the 
contents after the destructive readout.)  Without schematics, it was 
impossible to do much about it.


I used to work on a 727 flight simulator that used a Varian 620 to 
generate the visuals.  The display was capable of addressing 1024 points 
of light and that's how the runways and airport outline were drawn. 
Pretty neat stuff.  Here's some pics of the system that ran the sim:

http://flightweb.simpits.org/BehindTheScenes/727sim_page1.html

g.


--
Proud owner of F-15C 80-0007
http://www.f15sim.com - The only one of its kind.
http://www.diy-cockpits.org/coll - Go Collimated or Go Home.
Some people collect things for a hobby.  Geeks collect hobbies.

ScarletDME - The red hot Data Management Environment
A Multi-Value database for the masses, not the classes.
http://scarlet.deltasoft.com - Get it _today_!

Joking, was Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Steven M Jones]

On 01/17/2017 10:58, Alan Frisbie wrote:
> 
> ... getting rid of all the stuff
> I accumulated over my almost 50 years in the computer industry.   I
> have three rental storage units full of stuff and the cost is
> killing me!   Is it OK to post ads on this list?

No, no it isn't! Best you send me a private message about the items you
wish to get rid of, and I'll make sure only the "appropriate" ones are
forwarded to the list...

:D

RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Jay West]

General automation - yes. I have a zebra 1750, 2820, and 3000.
Microdata M6000
I have lots of DG gear as well... but that's starting to get sent out here
and there :)

J

-Original Message-
From: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] On Behalf Of Chuck Guzis
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2017 11:09 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts <cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you
own? [Tek 4132]

I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer area
seems to be gear of major brands.

Does anyone collect Varian minis?
Or General Automation?
Or any one of the many non-DEC, HP, etc. minis?  Heck, I don't read much
about DG minis  on this list--and they were a major force.

--Chuck

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Alan Frisbie]

I just joined this list, so I'm not sure which of the items I own
would be considered by this group to be rare or unusual, but here
goes...

Imlac PDS-1D graphics terminal, with the large screen and detached
keyboard.   Also a second one with the small screen and attached
keyboard, but the chassis and cards are suitable only for parts.

DEC TU56 dual-DECtape drive (goes with my PDP-11/34)

DEC VS60/GT48 graphics display (goes with my PDP-11/34)

DEC RKV11D Q-Bus controller for RK05 disks (on my LSI-11/73 system)
Originally, it only supported 16-bit addressing, but I added the
chip and wires to make it support 18-bit addressing.   I have never
even heard of another of these controllers, so I assume it is rare.

Things that I assume are non-rare include an IBM 82 card sorter,
Cardamation keypunch, assorted paper tape gear, and a True Data
card reader (on my LSI-11/73 system).

All of this was operating here at one time or another, but the
clutter has become so bad that it is difficult to get them connected
(or even get at them) these days.

I recently retired, so my #1 job now is getting rid of all the stuff
I accumulated over my almost 50 years in the computer industry.   I
have three rental storage units full of stuff and the cost is
killing me!   Is it OK to post ads on this list?

Alan Frisbie

Re: Varian, GA was: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Al Kossow]

let me see what I can get to on it. we got a ton of stuff from the stuff we 
bought in Germany

On 1/17/17 10:00 AM, Bob Rosenbloom wrote:

> I would really love to play with the 18/30 but have very little documentation 
> on it. No hardware docs at all. It's
> compatible with the IBM 1800 and 1130, both of which I have, so would great 
> to get running. Some photos of it
> are on my web site. http://dvq.com/oldcomp/minis.htm
> 
> If anyone has documentation on the 18/30 please contact me (or get it to 
> bitsavers).
> 
> Bob
> 
> 

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Al Kossow]

On 1/17/17 9:09 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

> Does anyone collect Varian minis?
>

I had a few 620's, the most interesting was the 18-bit version.

No software to speak of for them. I even talked to the guy who ended up
supporting them down in LA when Sperry spit them out. The only thing he
had was a diagnostic tape.

Probably the most interesting Varian system I had was an integrated data
acquistion system they built with a fixed head disk and point plot display.
I'm hoping the person who bought it is able to save the software which in
theory is still in core an on the disk.

--

We have some software at CHM for the General Automation 18/30, which is a
little more interesting since it was very similar architecturally to the IBM
1800. The name comes from it being a cross between the 1800 and 1130.

--

I recovered some software for the Computer Automation museum a while ago
http://www.computer-automation-museum.org/ca/
don't know if there's been much activity there.

--

Primarily, it seems the activity has been centering around people working on
various simulators for minis in SIMH.

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Brent Hilpert]

On 2017-Jan-17, at 9:13 AM, william degnan wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
> 
>> I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer
>> area seems to be gear of major brands.
>> 
>> Does anyone collect Varian minis?
>> Or General Automation?
>> Or any one of the many non-DEC, HP, etc. minis?  Heck, I don't read much
>> about DG minis  on this list--and they were a major force.
>> 
>> --Chuck
>> 
>> 
> I think it's simply an availability thing ...I have manuals for a lot of
> the non DEC minis, have to settle for simH, where am I going to get a
> Varian?

Right here (satire):

www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-VARIAN-DATA-MACHINES-620-L-100-COMPUTER-620L100-620-L100-/311466122329

I'd love to collect also-ran minis, I find the variety and architectural 
variations and forgotten history interesting.
But as you say: availability. And then the peripherals and software to make 
complete systems are even rarer.
And documentation. 

And on the rare occasions when they do show up, nowadays you get silly prices 
like this one.
That unit has been on ebay for many months, maybe near or over a year now.
I think it started out at 10,000 or some such.

Varian, GA was: Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Bob Rosenbloom]

On 1/17/2017 9:09 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer
area seems to be gear of major brands.

Does anyone collect Varian minis?
Or General Automation?
Or any one of the many non-DEC, HP, etc. minis?  Heck, I don't read much
about DG minis  on this list--and they were a major force.

--Chuck

I have a Varian 620 L and 620I but have never tried to power them up. 
Also have a GA SPC-16/80, SPC-12, and 18/30.


I would really love to play with the 18/30 but have very little 
documentation on it. No hardware docs at all. It's
compatible with the IBM 1800 and 1130, both of which I have, so would 
great to get running. Some photos of it

are on my web site. http://dvq.com/oldcomp/minis.htm

If anyone has documentation on the 18/30 please contact me (or get it to 
bitsavers).


Bob


--
Vintage computers and electronics
www.dvq.com
www.tekmuseum.com
www.decmuseum.org

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Paul Koning]

> On Jan 17, 2017, at 12:13 PM, william degnan  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:
> 
>> I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer
>> area seems to be gear of major brands.
>> 
>> Does anyone collect Varian minis?...
>> 
>> 
> I think it's simply an availability thing ...I have manuals for a lot of
> the non DEC minis, have to settle for simH, where am I going to get a
> Varian?

Yes, they are bound to be harder to find.  But with decent manuals you can add 
them to SIMH.  It's not that hard.  Then it becomes a matter of finding 
software.

Things seem to be worse yet with non-US computers.  You see very little mention 
of those, and (apart from BESM) nothing in SIMH.  UK computers get mentioned 
once in a while, other parts of Europe even less.  As a former Dutchman, I've 
wanted to find Philips computer documentation -- it seems to be non-existent.  
The first machine I did significant work on was a Philips PR8000; the grand 
total coverage of that machine on the WWW appears to be a one line entry in a 
book listing computers manufactured in the 1970s.  Similarly, I know Siemens 
made minicomputers, because I used a precision plotter driven by one of those 
-- a machine used around that time to draw postage stamp and paper money 
designs for the Dutch government.  Haven't seen that one either.

It may be that some of those computers aren't all that interesting, in the 
sense of not offering any unusual capabilities or architecture wrinkles.  But 
that's certainly not true for all of them; the PR8000, for example, has an 
approach to interrupts that's quite efficient and one I haven't seen since.

paul

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Jon Elson]

On 01/17/2017 11:09 AM, Chuck Guzis wrote:

I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer
area seems to be gear of major brands.

Does anyone collect Varian minis?
I had a Varian 620F a long time ago.  It was a whole bunch 
of wire-wrap boards.  It sort of tried to work, but was very 
flaky.  I was able to store some words into the core memory, 
but it seemed like every couple minutes it would zero out a 
word or two (I guess it was failing to write back the 
contents after the destructive readout.)  Without 
schematics, it was impossible to do much about it.


Jon

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[william degnan]

On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:09 PM, Chuck Guzis  wrote:

> I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer
> area seems to be gear of major brands.
>
> Does anyone collect Varian minis?
> Or General Automation?
> Or any one of the many non-DEC, HP, etc. minis?  Heck, I don't read much
> about DG minis  on this list--and they were a major force.
>
> --Chuck
>
>
I think it's simply an availability thing ...I have manuals for a lot of
the non DEC minis, have to settle for simH, where am I going to get a
Varian?

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Chuck Guzis]

I find it curious that what seems to be collected in the minicomputer
area seems to be gear of major brands.

Does anyone collect Varian minis?
Or General Automation?
Or any one of the many non-DEC, HP, etc. minis?  Heck, I don't read much
about DG minis  on this list--and they were a major force.

--Chuck

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Jon Elson]

On 01/16/2017 03:02 PM, Pete Lancashire wrote:

Currently about the only thing remaining I would come close to being
rare is a IBM 360/55 Front panel, spent $300+100 shipping in the early
to mid 90's for it.

Hmm, what's a 360/55?  I know the 360/50 and the 360/65 
quite well. Seems there is some mention of a /55, but what 
is different about it from a model 50?


Thanks,

Jon

AW: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Gottfried Specht]

A HP 1300A 13" XY Display (S/N 921-00913).

This is the Product that Dave Packard gave the "HP Medal of Defiance" to Chuck 
House for (see his excellent book " The HP Phenomenon: Innovation and Business 
Transformation"). In Chucks own words: 

" The new applications for this display box were compelling.  It became the 
first commercially available computer graphics CRT.  Beyond Alan Kay’s 
‘personal computer’, Doug Engelbart bought one to experiment in the first 
demonstrated computer network in the famous “Mother of All Demos”.  It won a 
Hollywood Oscar for technical screen graphics, it was the surgery room display 
for Dr. Norman DeBakey’s first artificial heart transplant, and it was the 
basis for the TV space video of Neil Armstrong’s foot landing on the moon July 
20, 1969. Seventeen thousand large-screen display units ultimately sold, for 
thirty-five million dollars.  Development costs were a pittance, less than 
three hundred thousand dollars.  Profits were in excess of six million dollars."

Kind regards,
Gottfried
_ 
Gottfried Specht | gottfr...@specht-online.com |  +49 211 151695+49 151 2911 
2915 


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: cctalk [mailto:cctalk-boun...@classiccmp.org] Im Auftrag von Andy Cloud
Gesendet: Dienstag, 10. Januar 2017 23:10
An: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Betreff: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

Hi Everyone!

I thought this would be an interesting question to ask around - What's the 
rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

For me, personally, I have a Altair 8800!

Looking forward to hearing your answers

>_Andy

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 07:39:00PM -0500, Michael Thompson wrote:
> I have two Sun 386i systems. It has an Intel 386 processor and runs SunOS.
> Not exactly a big seller for Sun. I met some of the designers at the Vintage
> Computer Festival East 2.0 in Burlington, MA.

I like this machine just because it has the signatures of the designers 
on the inside :)

/P

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Michael Thompson]

I have two Sun 386i systems. It has an Intel 386 processor and runs SunOS.
Not exactly a big seller for Sun. I met some of the designers at the Vintage
Computer Festival East 2.0 in Burlington, MA.

-- 
Michael Thompson

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Leif Johansson]

On 2017-01-16 21:42, Chris Hanson wrote:
> On Jan 12, 2017, at 12:12 PM, Leif Johansson  wrote:
>>
>> I saved one of the MIT CADR top-of-rack plates (the one with the logo
>> and a sticker from the lab on it). Me and peter recently discovered
>> he saved the rest of the box. Will probably reunite at some point :-)
> 
> Nice! Any media/storage with it too, or just the system itself?

dunno

> 
> The full software stack for the CADR is available so even if you don’t have 
> storage or media, if you could interface something emulating what it expects, 
> the system could be brought back to life.

kewl!

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Pete Lancashire]

Currently about the only thing remaining I would come close to being
rare is a IBM 360/55 Front panel, spent $300+100 shipping in the early
to mid 90's for it.

I have a Tektronix 6130 that as an (ex) employee were were able to
build at cost. The 6130 is pretty much the same as a 4132

Does a prototype Sparc-1 Pizza box qualify ? Came from a friend who
worked for Sun.


How about use to own ?

I had a shop that burned down to the ground. In it were three Tek
6205's one fully working and the rare of the rare a Tek 6210 with 3
CPU boards, and a CDC SMD disk drive that went with the 6210, plus
about 4 boxes of boards and still. one box in it had a prototype 6400
CPU, the 64xx was a bitslice + custom logic CPU that emulated a
National CPU but a lot faster. Also in that shop was a pretty much
unused IBM 129.

Use to own a PDP 11/40 (the big box version) that consisted of 4
racks, got it for $100 + truck rental + pizza for two friends. one
rack was the controller for two RP03 disk drives, another rack were 6
RK05's, a DEC TU?? in the third, the 4th I emptied, was full of serial
line cards,   CPU plus a tape reader and punch in the 5th, other
external stuff were a couple CDC 80MB SMD drives, a IBM Card reader,
and two line printers, it filled 1/2 of a 1000 sq foot basement. Long
story but I gave it away when I moved. When I got the CDC's I never
used the RP's again, but since they were so heavy they stayed until it
went away.





On Fri, Jan 13, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Ken Seefried  wrote:
> From: "Rick Bensene" 
>>
>> - A Tektronix 4132 Unix workstation  using a National 32016 CPU and a
>> 4.2bsd port called UTek
>
> Those seem quite rare now, especially if it works.  You should
> preserve an image of UTek if possible.  Any chance you have the
> install media?
>
> KJ
>

RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[John GEREMIN - Engineer]

Greetings from Australia, 'Down Under' and the Australian Computer Museum 
Society Inc.


Congratulations to Jay on his working HP-2000s.

I bought my HP-2000f from Liverpool Hospital (NSW) in the early 1980s for 
either $5,000 or $10,000.
A lot of money in those days - I had a crazy idea of setting up some sort 
of bureau.

I got it home (in a terrace in Chippendale) in two trips. Plus heaps of doco.
I re-assembled it, put in a switch for selectable baud rate on the console 
port.

Later the power supply for the disk failed and has not been repaired.
It now sits in the HP Museum in Melbourne, VIC. See www.HPmuseum.net home page.

The HP Museum is a vast store of HP information and artefacts.
Sadly, the curator/originator Jon Johnston died last year on Mt Everest.
His memorial service will be held next month, contact me for details.

Regards,  John GEREMIN, i...@acms.org.au


--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 15 Jan 2017 12:02:26 -0600
From: "Jay West" <jw...@classiccmp.org>
To: "'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'"
<cctalk@classiccmp.org>
Subject: RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item
do you own? [Tek 4132]
Message-ID: <000201d26f59$87e1cb60$97a56220$@classiccmp.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;   charset="utf-8"

I'd have to say my HP-2000 systems that are running are the rarest that 
I'm aware of. I know of a few folks who have various bits and pieces 
towards assembling one, but not complete. I know two collectors who (each) 
have most if not all of the parts, but the systems are far from 
operational and likely never will be.


So I fairly strongly suspect that my running HP-2000's are the only ones 
left, anywhere. I have one HP-2000/Access system using dual 2100A/S cpus 
with HP paper tape readers and punches, another HP-2000/Access system 
using dual 21MX/E's, and an HP-2000/E using one 21MX. Each of those have 
their own 7900, 7906 disc drives and 7970 (not the 2000/E) tape units.


I think the most I ever paid for a system at once was $1500 for a 
"system", and about $2000 for a pallet of two incomplete systems. But in 
order to get the 3 HP-2000 systems mentioned above and running, I'm sure 
it's edged uncomfortably into the 5 digit range.


All the other systems in my collection, while perhaps highly sought 
after... there are tens if not hundreds of identical systems in other 
collectors hands.


J



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Mon, Jan 16, 2017 at 07:27:00PM -0600, Jay West wrote:
> Yes. Please do!
> 
> Pontus wrote...
> There is a system quite like it standing in the halls of the maths
> department here. I'll have to take a closer look next time I'm there.
> 

I'll go there on thursday. I suspect it will be anticlimactic, I think 
it's newer. But I'll take a picture, it's a neat setup.

/P

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Alan Perry]

On 1/15/17 8:58 PM, Jeff Woolsey wrote:

On 1/15/17 7:20 PM, Alan Perry wrote:

If I had something rare, I would donate it to an appropriate museum.

Good luck with that.  I tried with my rarest, and they claimed they
already had one.


I had a Televideo TS-1605 that I donated to LCM.

alan

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Raymond Wiker]

> On 16 Jan 2017, at 21:42 , Chris Hanson  wrote:
> 
> On Jan 12, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Raymond Wiker  wrote:
>> 
>> I've been following this topic, and suddenly realised… that I don't actually 
>> have any particularly rare or unusual items – the nearest I can think of is 
>> a Commodore N-60 navigation calculator, but I also have two early Apple IIs.
>> 
>> If I can mention items that I have owned, the list becomes slightly longer: 
>> a PC532, Symbolics MacIvory II and a TI microExplorer.
> 
> What happened to the MacIvory II and microExplorer?

I sold the MacIvory II, and traded the microExplorer to one of the serious 
collectors on this mailing list.

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Chuck Guzis]

 From: allison 
> 
> The 32016 was not clocked very fast nor did it have any pipelines to
> speak of.

I recall the National dog-and-pony show guys showing up and having a
good long talk with them.  The 320xx sounded like a very advanced chip
when compared with the usual 8086 or Z8000 stuff.

I recall that the design work for National was being done by an outside
outfit--that it wasn't a home-grown product.

At any rate, the discussion came down to "When can we get sample silicon?"

There was the rub.  "Real Soon Now".  I think we were quoted something
like 18 months for early steppings.   Didn't happen, not in 18 months,
nor in 24.  By the time silicon was being offered, we had long moved on.

I do have a 32CG06 in my collection.  It came from a Panasonic laser
printer.

--Chuck

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Ken Seefried]

From: Al Kossow 
>
> That reminds me I need to dig out the Genix sources I have.
>

I'd really like to see that, if it ever came to light.

KJ

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Ken Seefried]

From: allison 
>
>The 32016 was not clocked very fast nor did it have any pipelines to
>speak of.

True.  And lots of interesting bugs; some show-stoppers in early steppings.

>If the 32016 had a second generation, some tweaks and faster process it
>might have had hope but like 68k and Z8000 it was good idea but late.

It had 2 additional generations of general purpose procs (32332 &
32532) and a number of embedded iterations (ns32gc, ns32fx).  But,
yeah, too late relative to to i8086.

KJ

RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Jay West]

Yes. Please do!

Pontus wrote...
There is a system quite like it standing in the halls of the maths
department here. I'll have to take a closer look next time I'm there.

/P

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Cameron Kaiser]

> >>> If I can mention items that I have owned, the list becomes slightly
> >>> longer: a PC532, Symbolics MacIvory II and a TI microExplorer.
> >> 
> >> What happened to the MacIvory II and microExplorer?
> > 
> > If we're considering MacIvories in this category, there's one sitting
> > next to me (MacIvory III in a IIci host, 8MW RAM, Genera 8.3).
> 
> Why wouldn't we? They're actually really rare, and quite nice.
> Some of us have been looking for a MacIvory or a microExplorer for a very
> long time. It requires quite a bit of luck to acquire one.

And a lot of money. Mine was a cool $4kmumble from DKS directly, but when it
arrived the board wasn't recapped, the case was cracked, the machine was
troublesome and the hard disk was flaky. I ended up recapping it, replacing
the hard disk and case and a few other parts, and rebuilding Genera. Total
cost, not counting the time I sunk into the damn thing, was around $6000.

I guess it's fun, but the 164LX under the bench running OpenGenera on Tru64
is leagues faster.

-- 
 personal: http://www.cameronkaiser.com/ --
  Cameron Kaiser * Floodgap Systems * www.floodgap.com * ckai...@floodgap.com
-- Computer geeks don't byte; we just nybble. -

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Steven M Jones]

On 01/10/2017 14:09, Andy Cloud wrote:
> 
> I thought this would be an interesting question to ask around - What's the
> rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

Rare and unusual? That disqualifies a lot of things that are neat, maybe
uncommon, but mainstream.

Wicat S-2000 server. Wicat developed a neat blend of UNIX and VMS for
their systems based on the M68k family.

One of the Omron LUNA 88k workstations used for Mach development at CMU.
One Omron label on back has "Prototype #" printed in the "S/N" field,
with "012" hand-written next to it. But another, more complete label
that identifies it as a "3W4SX-9100/DT8816N Multi Processor Work
Station" has "S047" as the serial number.

Three Nat Semi ICM-3216 board sets from the University of New Brunswick.
Two in large custom-built enclosures were used for timesharing, and one
in a PC-style case was used for systems programming projects. If any of
the disks could be coaxed, I'm not sure if I'd find SysV or GENIX.

One of CompuPro's 32016 S-100 cards. Have the standard CompuPro board
documentation, but no software.

Two Nat Semi ICEs for the 32016, and I think software for a VAX/VMS
host, somewhere.


--S.

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Chris Hanson]

On Jan 16, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Cameron Kaiser  wrote:
> 
>>> If I can mention items that I have owned, the list becomes slightly
>>> longer: a PC532, Symbolics MacIvory II and a TI microExplorer.
>> 
>> What happened to the MacIvory II and microExplorer?
> 
> If we're considering MacIvories in this category, there's one sitting
> next to me (MacIvory III in a IIci host, 8MW RAM, Genera 8.3).

Why wouldn’t we? They’re actually really rare, and quite nice.

Some of us have been looking for a MacIvory — or a microExplorer — for a very 
long time. It requires quite a bit of luck to acquire one.

One thing I’m keenly interested in finding is a way to reload the TI Explorer 
and microExplorer software. I’ve used the Meroko emulator, but only with the 
image of a workstation at WSU running the Explorer 4.1 system. I’d like to load 
a fresh environment on it from the final Explorer system release, if I could 
acquire such a thing.

  -- Chris

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Steven M Jones]

On 01/15/2017 08:23, Al Kossow wrote:
> 
> 
> On 1/14/17 7:20 PM, allison wrote:
> 
>> If the 32016 had a second generation
> 
> It had several generations. The 32532 saw some use in laser printers.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS320xx

This kind of "buries the lead," however -- the NS32532 inspired the
pc532 by George Scolaro and Dave Rand at the very end of the 1980s. This
very capable and fairly complex design was freely available, right down
to the Gerber files and PAL equations.

Dave and George had previously worked on a PC/AT coprocessor board using
the 32016 for Definicon. The pc532 eventually supported MINIX, Mach, and
NetBSD ports. Phil Budne and some others on this list participated - I
could only afford to cheer from the sidelines...

NatSemi reworked various 32k chip designs into versions for embedded
use, eventually. The 32cg16, based on the 32016, had a healthy run in
printers for several years before the 32gx32 came along.

Off the top of my head, I can only recall the pc532 and the later model
of ETH's Ceres workstations as examples of "single-user" machines using
the '532. And of course if anybody wants to get rid of one, I'd be happy
to oblige... ;)

Links:
   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PC532
   http://www.netbsd.org/ports/pc532
   http://cpu-ns32k.net/index.html

--S.

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Chris Hanson]

A Symbolics XL400 workstation with an 4MW extra memory board and two 780MB ESDI 
disks, for a total of 8MW (48MB) of memory and 1.5GB of storage in 1991.

  -- Chris

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Chris Hanson]

On Jan 12, 2017, at 12:54 PM, Raymond Wiker  wrote:
> 
> I've been following this topic, and suddenly realised… that I don't actually 
> have any particularly rare or unusual items – the nearest I can think of is a 
> Commodore N-60 navigation calculator, but I also have two early Apple IIs.
> 
> If I can mention items that I have owned, the list becomes slightly longer: a 
> PC532, Symbolics MacIvory II and a TI microExplorer.

What happened to the MacIvory II and microExplorer?

  -- Chris

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Chris Hanson]

On Jan 12, 2017, at 12:12 PM, Leif Johansson  wrote:
> 
> I saved one of the MIT CADR top-of-rack plates (the one with the logo
> and a sticker from the lab on it). Me and peter recently discovered
> he saved the rest of the box. Will probably reunite at some point :-)

Nice! Any media/storage with it too, or just the system itself?

The full software stack for the CADR is available so even if you don’t have 
storage or media, if you could interface something emulating what it expects, 
the system could be brought back to life.

  -- Chris

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 10:20:56AM -0800, Al Kossow wrote:
> 
> 
> On 1/15/17 10:02 AM, Jay West wrote:
> > I'd have to say my HP-2000 systems that are running are the rarest that I'm 
> > aware of.
> > So I fairly strongly suspect that my running HP-2000's are the only ones 
> > left, anywhere.
> 
> probably true.
> 
> http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102682887

There is a system quite like it standing in the halls of the maths 
department here. I'll have to take a closer look next time I'm there.

/P

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Jeff Woolsey]

On 1/15/17 7:20 PM, Alan Perry wrote:
>
> If I had something rare, I would donate it to an appropriate museum.
Good luck with that.  I tried with my rarest, and they claimed they
already had one.

Someone mentioned Vectrex, which isn't all that rare.  However, my
one-off homebrew S-100 Vectrex interface is rare enough.  Basically it's
just dual ported ordinary memory with a bit on the S-100 side that says
whose turn it is to use the memory.

Another rare item is my Texas Instruments SR-22 calculator.  It does
full floating point in decimal, hexadecimal, and octal.  Scientific
notation is in the same base, with an octal point and base-8 exponent,
for example.

Burroughts E1400 deskside unit for the accounting machine.  It's 1966
vintage, and has a couple core planes.  I have the printset, too.  It
makes a dandy table, and hasn't seen any moving electrons (or holes) for
30 years.  The local museum refused it, though.

-- 
Jeff Woolsey {{woolsey,jlw}@jlw,first.last@{gmail,jlw}}.com
Nature abhors straight antennas, clean lenses, and empty storage.
"Delete! Delete! OK!" -Dr. Bronner on disk space management
Card-sorting, Joel.  -Crow on solitaire

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Michael Thompson]

I have a Sun VME to Pixar interface board somewhere in my collection.

-- 
Michael Thompson

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Alan Perry]

My most unusual computer-related item is an Axil 320 (SPARCstation 20 
clone laid out like a SS10 on the inside) running OPENSTEP 4.2. But it 
would be nicer if OPENSTEP made use of the second processor module in it.


Or the receipt for the very last magneto-optical cartridges for the NeXT 
that Canon had to sell.


If I had something rare, I would donate it to an appropriate museum.

alan

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Jon Elson]

On 01/15/2017 10:20 AM, Al Kossow wrote:


On 1/14/17 6:29 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

I got versions of Genix and Xenix with it.

Do you still have Xenix?
I don't think so, but I'll look a bit more.  I may have 
overwritten those with Genix.
I do have the 24 or so Genix install disks.  These are 5.25" 
floppies.  I doubt I have anything that will read them, and 
have no idea what condition they are in.  The do look clean, 
so no serious degradation.


Jon

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Al Kossow]

On 1/15/17 10:02 AM, Jay West wrote:
> I'd have to say my HP-2000 systems that are running are the rarest that I'm 
> aware of.
> So I fairly strongly suspect that my running HP-2000's are the only ones 
> left, anywhere.

probably true.

http://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102682887

is probably an Access system, I never looked to see if it has the 
interprocessor comm link

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Raymond Wiker]

> On 15 Jan 2017, at 17:23 , Al Kossow  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On 1/14/17 7:20 PM, allison wrote:
> 
>> If the 32016 had a second generation
> 
> It had several generations. The 32532 saw some use in laser printers.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS320xx 

There was an MMU-less version of the 32532 (32gx32, I think) which was more 
common in embedded applications. The 32532 was used in the PC532 – I'm 
sometimes regretting letting mine go.

RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Jay West]

I'd have to say my HP-2000 systems that are running are the rarest that I'm 
aware of. I know of a few folks who have various bits and pieces towards 
assembling one, but not complete. I know two collectors who (each) have most if 
not all of the parts, but the systems are far from operational and likely never 
will be.

So I fairly strongly suspect that my running HP-2000's are the only ones left, 
anywhere. I have one HP-2000/Access system using dual 2100A/S cpus with HP 
paper tape readers and punches, another HP-2000/Access system using dual 
21MX/E's, and an HP-2000/E using one 21MX. Each of those have their own 7900, 
7906 disc drives and 7970 (not the 2000/E) tape units.

I think the most I ever paid for a system at once was $1500 for a "system", and 
about $2000 for a pallet of two incomplete systems. But in order to get the 3 
HP-2000 systems mentioned above and running, I'm sure it's edged uncomfortably 
into the 5 digit range.

All the other systems in my collection, while perhaps highly sought after... 
there are tens if not hundreds of identical systems in other collectors hands.

J

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Mouse]

Well, after reading what other people have, my contribution seems
pretty piddly, but here it is.

The rarest hardware I have is probably a Sun SPARCstation Voyager or a
Tadpole 3GX - I'm not sure which is rarer (and those are just my
perception of rarity, which could be wrong).  It's possible one of my
klunker peecees happens to be a particular rare model, but I'm not
aware of any, and unless there's something notable about it, that kind
of rarity is not interesting - to me, at least. :-)

The rarest software I have is, of course, software that nobody else has
a copy of (given how much software I've written, there's a fair bit
nobody else has, because it's too new or because I haven't bothered to
export it or because nobody has cared to pick up a copy).  But I doubt
that's what the question was really asking for.  My open-source
fanaticism means I don't have very much that would be of interest here,
sorry.

/~\ The ASCII Mouse
\ / Ribbon Campaign
 X  Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org
/ \ Email!   7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39  4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Al Kossow]

On 1/14/17 7:20 PM, allison wrote:

> If the 32016 had a second generation

It had several generations. The 32532 saw some use in laser printers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NS320xx

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Al Kossow]

On 1/14/17 6:29 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
> 

> I got versions of Genix and Xenix with it.

Do you still have Xenix?

That reminds me I need to dig out the Genix sources I have.

There were a couple of companies that made PC cards with the chipset on it, and
once company that made a Q-Bus co-processor that used an 11/23 runing RSX-11M
as an I/O processor.

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Al Kossow]

Bob Rosenbloom or Ian Finder might have one.
I forgot to inventory the ROMpacks in the 4054 that I sent to Ian and Bob
has a pretty big collection of 405x stuff.

On 1/14/17 3:49 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:
> I have a 4907 single 8" floppy disk drive for my 4051, and it works great, 
> but I don't have the proper ROMpack module to use it with the 4052, which 
> apparently needs a different ROMpack than the 4051 to talk to the 4907.  So 
> far, such a ROMpack has proven elusive.
> 
> -Rick
> 

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Al Kossow]

I dug out the boards that I have to dump the eproms, and a while back put up 
what I had for schematics on bitsavers.

On 1/14/17 3:40 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:
> 
> 
>> From: "Rick Bensene" 
>>> - A Tektronix 4132 Unix workstation  using a National 32016 CPU and a 
>>> 4.2bsd port called UTek
>>>
> Jon wrote:
> 
>> Gee, how does it perform?  I built a clone of a Logical Microcomputer Co. 
>> 32016 Multibus system and got it working.  
>> But, it was glacially slow!  I did have some memory that was likely a little 
>> slower than the stock memory, but it wasn't insanely slow.  But, firing up 
>> certain things >like editors was just maddening.  And, I'm not talking about 
>> Emacs, just vi.  I eventually got a MicroVAX-II to replace it, and, yes, 
>> that DID have a cache to speed >up the memory, but it was quite a difference.
> 
> Well...considering the era, it wasn't too bad.  By today's standards, yeah, 
> it's pretty darned slow.
> Vi starts up pretty quick, even with a couple of terminals running on it.   
> It runs rogue pretty nicely, quick enough for multiple people to play it at 
> once.
> 
> The machine has 7MB of RAM, which really helps.   Without additional RAM, 
> there's only 1MB on the main board, and running it with just 1MB makes it 
> incredibly slow.  There isn't any external cache.  
> 
> It's fun to fire it up and just relive the days when I was on cloud nine to 
> have my own personal Unix workstation that I built myself from parts.
> 
> -Rick
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[allison]

On 01/14/2017 09:29 PM, Jon Elson wrote:
>
> On 01/14/2017 05:40 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:
>>
>>> From: "Rick Bensene" 
 - A Tektronix 4132 Unix workstation  using a National 32016 CPU and a
 4.2bsd port called UTek

>> Jon wrote:
>>
>>> Gee, how does it perform?  I built a clone of a Logical
>>> Microcomputer Co. 32016 Multibus system and got it working.
>>> But, it was glacially slow!  I did have some memory that was likely
>>> a little slower than the stock memory, but it wasn't insanely slow. 
>>> But, firing up certain things >like editors was just maddening. 
>>> And, I'm not talking about Emacs, just vi.  I eventually got a
>>> MicroVAX-II to replace it, and, yes, that DID have a cache to speed
>>> >up the memory, but it was quite a difference.
>> Well...considering the era, it wasn't too bad.  By today's standards,
>> yeah, it's pretty darned slow.
>> Vi starts up pretty quick, even with a couple of terminals running on
>> it.   It runs rogue pretty nicely, quick enough for multiple people
>> to play it at once.
>>
>> The machine has 7MB of RAM, which really helps.   Without additional
>> RAM, there's only 1MB on the main board, and running it with just 1MB
>> makes it incredibly slow.  There isn't any external cache.
That can be because of swapping for most everything to disk.  uVAX that
is...

> Ahh, that may be part of the difference.  I can't remember how much
> memory I had on it.  I would not be surprised if it was as tiny as 128
> KB, or maybe 256 KB.  I'll check my schematics to see how many address
> lines were implemented.

My uVAXII used to run a Notes file and 5 regular users including me with
DECwindows (it was a GPX).
Speed compared to the latest single user 3ghz box does not compare but
unlike many PC its oS
does not eat its feet when stressed. 

MicroVAX tricks for speed were things like two disk controllers one
purely for swapping with say a RD31 (they were fast
for their size)  and the OS and users on separate disks using the second
controller.

The only pokey machine was the uVAX2000 as it was maxed at 12meg of ram
ad the only disk controller was
not fast nor pretty i that it was very dependent of the OS to handle the
scatter gather in memory as the disk only
had something like a 16K memory window for DMA.  Not the CPUs fault,
just minimization of hardware has costs.

>> It's fun to fire it up and just relive the days when I was on cloud
>> nine to have my own personal Unix workstation that I built myself
>> from parts.
>>
>>
> If mine hadn't performed so poorly, I might have continued to use it,
> and upgraded parts.
> I got versions of Genix and Xenix with it.  These were likely early
> ports for the 32016, and may have had poor implementations for the MMU
> for instance.
>
The 32016 was not clocked very fast nor did it have any pipelines to
speak of.  I needed all the help it could
get and lots of ram plus fast ram (no wait states) helped some.If
ther ewas a MMU it ran a bit better as the
OS didn't have to swap to the then rather slow disks with small read
write caches.

If the 32016 had a second generation, some tweaks and faster process it
might have had hope but like 68K
and Z8000 it was good idea but late.  The 8088 and 8086 had that space
and were generally even then
capable of going faster.  

Generally any machine that did virtualization or swapping was at the
mercy of the disks of the day
as some drives and their controllers were slow. 

Allison
> Jon
>

RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Rick Bensene]

I initially wrote in response to this thread:
 - A Tektronix 4132 Unix workstation  using a National 32016 CPU and 
 a 4.2bsd port called UTek

>> Jon responded:
>>
>>> Gee, how does it perform?  I built a clone of a Logical Microcomputer Co. 
>>> 32016 Multibus system and got it working.
>>> But, it was glacially slow!  I did have some memory that was likely a 
>>> little slower than the stock memory, but it wasn't insanely slow.  But, 
>>> firing up certain >>>things like editors was just maddening.  And, I'm not 
>>> talking about Emacs, just vi.  I eventually got a MicroVAX-II to replace 
>>> it, and, yes, that DID have a cache 
>>>to speed  up the memory, but it was quite a difference.

..and I responded with:

>> Well...considering the era, it wasn't too bad.  By today's standards, yeah, 
>> it's pretty darned slow.
>> Vi starts up pretty quick, even with a couple of terminals running on it.   
>> It runs rogue pretty nicely, quick enough for multiple people to play it at 
>> once.
>>
>> The machine has 7MB of RAM, which really helps.   Without additional RAM, 
>> there's only 1MB on the main board, and running it with just 1MB makes it 
>> >>incredibly slow.  There isn't any external cache.

And Jon wrote back:

>Ahh, that may be part of the difference.  I can't remember how much memory I 
>had on it.  I would not be surprised if it was as tiny as 128 KB, or maybe 256 
>KB.  >I'll check my schematics to see how many address lines were 
>implemented.''

With that little memory, even with cache, it was bound to be slow, and probably 
ended up paging a lot.
>
> If mine hadn't performed so poorly, I might have continued to use it, and 
> upgraded parts.
> I got versions of Genix and Xenix with it.  These were likely early ports for 
> the 32016, and may have had poor implementations for the MMU for instance.

The real difference was likely that UTek was a pretty true port of Berkeley 4.2 
for the VAX, which was a really good fit for the mature (for the time) virtual 
memory management features offered by BSD Unix, and the  demand-paged virtual 
memory capabilities of the 32016 chipset.

-Rick

 

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Jon Elson]

On 01/14/2017 05:40 PM, Rick Bensene wrote:



From: "Rick Bensene" 

- A Tektronix 4132 Unix workstation  using a National 32016 CPU and a
4.2bsd port called UTek


Jon wrote:


Gee, how does it perform?  I built a clone of a Logical Microcomputer Co. 32016 
Multibus system and got it working.
But, it was glacially slow!  I did have some memory that was likely a little slower 
than the stock memory, but it wasn't insanely slow.  But, firing up certain things 
>like editors was just maddening.  And, I'm not talking about Emacs, just vi.  I 
eventually got a MicroVAX-II to replace it, and, yes, that DID have a cache to speed 
>up the memory, but it was quite a difference.

Well...considering the era, it wasn't too bad.  By today's standards, yeah, 
it's pretty darned slow.
Vi starts up pretty quick, even with a couple of terminals running on it.   It 
runs rogue pretty nicely, quick enough for multiple people to play it at once.

The machine has 7MB of RAM, which really helps.   Without additional RAM, 
there's only 1MB on the main board, and running it with just 1MB makes it 
incredibly slow.  There isn't any external cache.
Ahh, that may be part of the difference.  I can't remember how much 
memory I had on it.  I would not be surprised if it was as tiny as 128 
KB, or maybe 256 KB.  I'll check my schematics to see how many address 
lines were implemented.

It's fun to fire it up and just relive the days when I was on cloud nine to 
have my own personal Unix workstation that I built myself from parts.


If mine hadn't performed so poorly, I might have continued to use it, 
and upgraded parts.
I got versions of Genix and Xenix with it.  These were likely early 
ports for the 32016, and may have had poor implementations for the MMU 
for instance.


Jon

RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Rick Bensene]

On 12.01.2017 20:49, Rick Bensene wrote:
>>
>> - A Tektronix 4052 desktop computer (bit-slice implementation of Motorola 
>> 6800 CPU) with very rare RAM Disk module installed under keyboard

To which Jos D. asked:

>Is this RAM disk module documented ?
>Sounds like a possible solution for my 4052, such that I would not have to 
>resurrect those  DC300 cartridges from the dead.

Not to my knowledge.  I haven't found any documentation of it.  I am not even 
sure it was ever a real product offered by Tektronix.
It's a bit fussy, too.   It has its own power supply that bypasses the power 
switch so that it's always on.  That's how it keeps the RAM alive.
If the mains are removed, the RAM Disk content is gone.  Sometimes when I 
switch the machine off, the content does get scrambled, and the next time the 
machine is powered up, it gets a device error when it tries to talk to the RAM 
Disk, ad doesn't recognize it anymore.   Unplugging the mains and leaving it 
for a while seems to clean things up so that the RAM Disk will work again.   It 
has its own firmware on the board that augments the commands within BASIC to 
provide for saving and retrieving programs from the RAM Disk, and getting a 
directory of its contents, as well as deleting files.  It does not seem to work 
with binary files or anything else other than BASIC programs.   

I know what you mean about the DC300 carts...what a lousy design...at least 
from a longevity standpoint.  I've had numerous nightmares with those 
cartridges in a number of vintage systems that I've got.Broken tension 
bands, sticky tape...just plain bad stuff.   Plus, the tape transports in the 
4051/4052 are fussy as can be.   I have a 4907 single 8" floppy disk drive for 
my 4051, and it works great, but I don't have the proper ROMpack module to use 
it with the 4052, which apparently needs a different ROMpack than the 4051 to 
talk to the 4907.  So far, such a ROMpack has proven elusive.

-Rick

RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own? [Tek 4132]

[Rick Bensene]

> From: "Rick Bensene" 
>> - A Tektronix 4132 Unix workstation  using a National 32016 CPU and a 
>> 4.2bsd port called UTek
>>
Jon wrote:

>Gee, how does it perform?  I built a clone of a Logical Microcomputer Co. 
>32016 Multibus system and got it working.  
>But, it was glacially slow!  I did have some memory that was likely a little 
>slower than the stock memory, but it wasn't insanely slow.  But, firing up 
>certain things >like editors was just maddening.  And, I'm not talking about 
>Emacs, just vi.  I eventually got a MicroVAX-II to replace it, and, yes, that 
>DID have a cache to speed >up the memory, but it was quite a difference.

Well...considering the era, it wasn't too bad.  By today's standards, yeah, 
it's pretty darned slow.
Vi starts up pretty quick, even with a couple of terminals running on it.   It 
runs rogue pretty nicely, quick enough for multiple people to play it at once.

The machine has 7MB of RAM, which really helps.   Without additional RAM, 
there's only 1MB on the main board, and running it with just 1MB makes it 
incredibly slow.  There isn't any external cache.  

It's fun to fire it up and just relive the days when I was on cloud nine to 
have my own personal Unix workstation that I built myself from parts.

-Rick

Re: KA-10 desirability [was RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?]

[Phil Budne]

> And I think all the PDP-6's are gone, right?

There are some pieces (console, display) of the UWA '6 in museums:
http://www.ultimate.com/phil/pdp10/pdp6-serials.html

The odd thing about Alex Reid's photos is that the "before it left the
factory" and "towards the end of it's useful life" photos show the
display away from the console, but the "on delivery" photo shows a
display above the console!

phil

Re: KA-10 desirability [was RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?]

[Al Kossow]

On 1/14/17 12:11 PM, Pontus Pihlgren wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 11:58:13AM -0500, Noel Chiappa wrote:
>> > From: Rich Alderson
>>
>> >>> If he had a KA, I would have tracked him down and beaten him to a 
>> pulp
>> >>> to lay hands on it
>>
>> > A KA-10 based PDP-10 is the Holy Grail
>>
>> So, how many KA10's _are_ there still in existence? Does anyone know?
> 
> I think CHM has at least the CPU cabinet of one.
> 

We have the front panel cabinet from LLNL, and a few of the peripheral control 
cabinets
from Germany, but no CPU or memory

Re: KA-10 desirability [was RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?]

[Pontus Pihlgren]

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 11:58:13AM -0500, Noel Chiappa wrote:
> > From: Rich Alderson
> 
> >>> If he had a KA, I would have tracked him down and beaten him to a pulp
> >>> to lay hands on it
> 
> > A KA-10 based PDP-10 is the Holy Grail
> 
> So, how many KA10's _are_ there still in existence? Does anyone know?

I think CHM has at least the CPU cabinet of one.

> 
> And I think all the PDP-6's are gone, right?
> 

Most likely. There are parts of one in Australia. (The front panel, 
dectapes, parts of the CPU as well as teh 340 Display).

/P

Re: KA-10 desirability [was RE: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?]

[Noel Chiappa]

> From: Rich Alderson

>>> If he had a KA, I would have tracked him down and beaten him to a pulp
>>> to lay hands on it

> A KA-10 based PDP-10 is the Holy Grail

So, how many KA10's _are_ there still in existence? Does anyone know?

And I think all the PDP-6's are gone, right?

Noel

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Santo Nucifora]

"Unusual" would be a recent acquisition of an Apple II Rev 3 motherboard
that has no solder mask or graphics.  Not sure if it's a prototype or an
impeccable 1 to 1 clone and I'm not sure I will ever have confirmation.
This board was produced on the same material by the same manufacturer of
Apple II boards of the time but has a couple of replaced interface card
slots and is actually roughly cut on both ends.  The card slot replacements
could have been because of a lot of testing with various cards (a theory).
Still remains a mystery but I am leaning towards prototype.

http://vintagecomputer.ca/apple-ii-rev-3-clone-or-prototype/

Santo



On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:01 AM, Jay Jaeger <cu...@charter.net> wrote:

> I think my most uncommon item would be:
>
> A DEC RC11 and RS64 - Installed and working on a PDP-11/20.
>
> I have a few other interesting artifacts that are probably not common,
> including:
>
> A DEC VT05 - not working.
> A DEC RF08 - not installed
> A DEC RS08 - Disassembled and broken  ;(
> A DEC PDP-12 - Mostly working last it was on
> A set of populated PDP-12 backplanes (I wasn't able to rescue the whole
> machine)
> A DEC PDP-8/L - Working last it was on
> A DG Eclipse S/140 with disk - not tested recently
> A DG Nova 4 with tape and disk - not tested recently
> A working Wire-wrapped Mark 8 I built
> A Mark-8 replica I built
> A TV Typewriter that I built way back when, restored
> A Netronics original IBM PC clone I built way back when
> An HP 2114
>
> On 1/10/2017 4:09 PM, Andy Cloud wrote:
> > Hi Everyone!
> >
> > I thought this would be an interesting question to ask around - What's
> the
> > rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?
> >
> > For me, personally, I have a Altair 8800!
> >
> > Looking forward to hearing your answers
> >
> >> _Andy
> >
>

Re: What's the rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?

[Jay Jaeger]

I think my most uncommon item would be:

A DEC RC11 and RS64 - Installed and working on a PDP-11/20.

I have a few other interesting artifacts that are probably not common,
including:

A DEC VT05 - not working.
A DEC RF08 - not installed
A DEC RS08 - Disassembled and broken  ;(
A DEC PDP-12 - Mostly working last it was on
A set of populated PDP-12 backplanes (I wasn't able to rescue the whole
machine)
A DEC PDP-8/L - Working last it was on
A DG Eclipse S/140 with disk - not tested recently
A DG Nova 4 with tape and disk - not tested recently
A working Wire-wrapped Mark 8 I built
A Mark-8 replica I built
A TV Typewriter that I built way back when, restored
A Netronics original IBM PC clone I built way back when
An HP 2114

On 1/10/2017 4:09 PM, Andy Cloud wrote:
> Hi Everyone!
> 
> I thought this would be an interesting question to ask around - What's the
> rarest or most unusual computer-related item do you own?
> 
> For me, personally, I have a Altair 8800!
> 
> Looking forward to hearing your answers
> 
>> _Andy
>