Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
I like this discussion because I learned a lot about rdf and the application. From the view of persistent identifier I would say a persistent identifier needs a persistent object. URIs and URLs are not persistent but what is the object behind it and what are the metadata of the object? The objects are the standard names for example air_temperature. If the definition (not the description) was changed in a sense that the object air_temperature changed we need a version. But did this happen? This is not a rhetorical question. If not, we don't need a version of the standard name. The metadata changed a lot. Having versions of the metadata is an other question. Best wishes Heinke ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Hattersley, Richard Sent: 17 December 2010 16:13 To: John Graybeal; Jeff deLaBeaujardiere Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? It would seem that the two conflicting requirements, which I'll caricature as rigorous version control and pragmatic usability, could go some way to being reconciled by using term-specific version numbers. Instead of: some_prefix/cf_vocab_number/term (e.g. .../P071/16/CFSN0023) Or: some_prefix/term (e.g. .../parameter/air_temperature) You have: some_prefix/term/term_version Where the term_version is only updated when the definition of the term changes - not when a release of the standard name table occurs. Thus avoiding the proliferation of identifiers. This would still leave a discussion on what constitutes a change, as it's quite possible one may wish to allow minor edits (eg. spelling corrections) for pragmatic reasons. Richard Hattersley AVD Expert Software Developer Met Office FitzRoy Road Exeter Devon EX1 3PB United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0)1392 885702 Fax: +44 (0)1392 885681 Email: richard.hatters...@metoffice.gov.uk Website: www.metoffice.gov.uk -Original Message- From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of John Graybeal Sent: 17 December 2010 00:16 To: Jeff deLaBeaujardiere Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? I offer my two cents on versioned terms, prompted by the 'absolutely right' phrasing :-. I am firmly straddling the fence on this question. There are multiple science users and many technical opinions that say not having versions is absolutely wrong. The circumstances that could make 'current' *not* what you want include: - you need to understand what definition (or other statements) was in effect when the tag was applied - you want to understand the transitions that the definition (or other statements) has undergone over time - the meaning of a term actually is significantly different than it used to be - additional meanings are associated with a term (e.g., an acronym is repurposed by another organization) at a later date I believe the last happens much more often than your confidence suggest -- perhaps especially in emerging fields or those that are newly developing documented vocabularies, extremely advanced or subjective fields, and concepts that get 'culturally adopted', e.g., turned into a pejorative (slang (that last not our problem, for the most part). I don't see how the exclusive use of non-versioned terms supports these situations. So while I appreciate the motivations for not including versions, I think versions have to be offered by the system, and ideally should be used where unique persistent identifiers are required. John On Dec 16, 2010, at 13:08, Jeff deLaBeaujardiere wrote: Actually, my recollection is that EPSG OGC proposed to include version numbers, and several of us argued against it and managed to convince them. I would have to dig up old emails to find out for certain who was in which camp, however. Regards, Jeff DLB On 2010-12-16 15:57, Lowry, Roy K. wrote: Hi Jeff, It's interesting to see the difference of opinion between the standards developers (the idea of version number in URI came from the OGC URN specification: interesting how EPSG came to a different conclusion) and those who have to live with the consequences. The more I think about it, the more I think you and Benno are absolutely right. Cheers, Roy. From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff deLaBeaujardiere [jeff.delabeaujardi...@noaa.gov] Sent: 16 December 2010 19:40 To: John Graybeal Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? On 2010-12-14 12:56, John Graybeal wrote: Just to be crystal clear, the places where you have '16' could also have 'current' (if I understand correctly what Roy was saying about their server), and the mmisw one could also be served with a particular version ID (analogous to the NERC example). I think it is of the utmost importance to have a URI that does not include a version number and always provides the latest answer. Otherwise you have a proliferation of identifiers mean the same thing but appear to change every time the overall vocabulary is updated. You can also have a version-specific entry if desired. There were similar discussions regarding identifiers for coordinate reference system identifiers from EPSG (European Petroleum Survey Group), and it was fortunately recognized that a version-less URI was essential. -Jeff
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
It would seem that the two conflicting requirements, which I'll caricature as rigorous version control and pragmatic usability, could go some way to being reconciled by using term-specific version numbers. Instead of: some_prefix/cf_vocab_number/term (e.g. .../P071/16/CFSN0023) Or: some_prefix/term (e.g. .../parameter/air_temperature) You have: some_prefix/term/term_version Where the term_version is only updated when the definition of the term changes - not when a release of the standard name table occurs. Thus avoiding the proliferation of identifiers. This would still leave a discussion on what constitutes a change, as it's quite possible one may wish to allow minor edits (eg. spelling corrections) for pragmatic reasons. Richard Hattersley AVD Expert Software Developer Met Office FitzRoy Road Exeter Devon EX1 3PB United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0)1392 885702 Fax: +44 (0)1392 885681 Email: richard.hatters...@metoffice.gov.uk Website: www.metoffice.gov.uk -Original Message- From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of John Graybeal Sent: 17 December 2010 00:16 To: Jeff deLaBeaujardiere Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? I offer my two cents on versioned terms, prompted by the 'absolutely right' phrasing :-. I am firmly straddling the fence on this question. There are multiple science users and many technical opinions that say not having versions is absolutely wrong. The circumstances that could make 'current' *not* what you want include: - you need to understand what definition (or other statements) was in effect when the tag was applied - you want to understand the transitions that the definition (or other statements) has undergone over time - the meaning of a term actually is significantly different than it used to be - additional meanings are associated with a term (e.g., an acronym is repurposed by another organization) at a later date I believe the last happens much more often than your confidence suggest -- perhaps especially in emerging fields or those that are newly developing documented vocabularies, extremely advanced or subjective fields, and concepts that get 'culturally adopted', e.g., turned into a pejorative (slang (that last not our problem, for the most part). I don't see how the exclusive use of non-versioned terms supports these situations. So while I appreciate the motivations for not including versions, I think versions have to be offered by the system, and ideally should be used where unique persistent identifiers are required. John On Dec 16, 2010, at 13:08, Jeff deLaBeaujardiere wrote: Actually, my recollection is that EPSG OGC proposed to include version numbers, and several of us argued against it and managed to convince them. I would have to dig up old emails to find out for certain who was in which camp, however. Regards, Jeff DLB On 2010-12-16 15:57, Lowry, Roy K. wrote: Hi Jeff, It's interesting to see the difference of opinion between the standards developers (the idea of version number in URI came from the OGC URN specification: interesting how EPSG came to a different conclusion) and those who have to live with the consequences. The more I think about it, the more I think you and Benno are absolutely right. Cheers, Roy. From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff deLaBeaujardiere [jeff.delabeaujardi...@noaa.gov] Sent: 16 December 2010 19:40 To: John Graybeal Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? On 2010-12-14 12:56, John Graybeal wrote: Just to be crystal clear, the places where you have '16' could also have 'current' (if I understand correctly what Roy was saying about their server), and the mmisw one could also be served with a particular version ID (analogous to the NERC example). I think it is of the utmost importance to have a URI that does not include a version number and always provides the latest answer. Otherwise you have a proliferation of identifiers mean the same thing but appear to change every time the overall vocabulary is updated. You can also have a version-specific entry if desired. There were similar discussions regarding identifiers for coordinate reference system identifiers from EPSG (European Petroleum Survey Group), and it was fortunately recognized that a version-less URI was essential. -Jeff ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata-- This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only NERC is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the contents of this email and any reply you make may be disclosed by NERC unless it is exempt from release under the Act. Any
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
While I appreciate the argument that having a single unique string to represent each concept in earth science would be ideal, I can promise that no matter what we do with versioning of terms, in 10 years there will be a plethora of URIs representing any given concept (more or less). Hate to say that, but it is inevitable. So in the end, managing the clutter of 'excess' terms will have to be done with user interfaces to hide them, and good semantic tools to map them all together. (Admittedly, neither anywhere near commonly available yet. But it will happen in the fullness of time.) The proliferation/versioning topic was one we thought hard about in MMI, and there are some writeups on the site that may be of interest to a few. [1] It includes more detailed analysis than we have pursued here. In case anyone cares: Knowing which vocabulary version a term came from can reveal more than you might realize. While we probably didn't say this explicitly anywhere, the thought in my head for versioning every term when the file changed was a bit of an angels on a pin argument: if additional terms are added that are more detailed than the original term (say, sea_surface_skin_temperature and sea_surface_foundation_temperature added to the original term sea_surface_temperature), I would expect people to use the more specific term when possible. (Similarly, 'gay' still means happy, but you don't hear people use it that way.) Thus, even though the definition of a term hasn't changed, its application and implicit meaning can change. Historians have to account for this when reading and understanding texts, and historical data analysts the same. John [1] http://marinemetadata.org/apguides/ontprovidersguide/ontguideconstructinguris (see the Versioned and Unversioned URLs section toward the bottom) On Dec 17, 2010, at 08:37, Lowry, Roy K. wrote: Hi Richard, This echoes a discussion in BODC this afternoon and a thought I had some while ago in that having terms inherit the version number of the list in which they reside was not the best of ideas. However, we concluded that maintenance of list versions was a good idea, particularly if the list governance permits deprecation. I'm not aware of anybody maintaining version numbers at the term level for the Standard Names. Establishing them retrospectively wouldn't be a pleasant task and I don't think there's anything to be gained from their introduction from this point onwards. Cheers, Roy. -Original Message- From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Hattersley, Richard Sent: 17 December 2010 16:13 To: John Graybeal; Jeff deLaBeaujardiere Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? It would seem that the two conflicting requirements, which I'll caricature as rigorous version control and pragmatic usability, could go some way to being reconciled by using term-specific version numbers. Instead of: some_prefix/cf_vocab_number/term (e.g. .../P071/16/CFSN0023) Or: some_prefix/term (e.g. .../parameter/air_temperature) You have: some_prefix/term/term_version Where the term_version is only updated when the definition of the term changes - not when a release of the standard name table occurs. Thus avoiding the proliferation of identifiers. This would still leave a discussion on what constitutes a change, as it's quite possible one may wish to allow minor edits (eg. spelling corrections) for pragmatic reasons. Richard Hattersley AVD Expert Software Developer Met Office FitzRoy Road Exeter Devon EX1 3PB United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0)1392 885702 Fax: +44 (0)1392 885681 Email: richard.hatters...@metoffice.gov.uk Website: www.metoffice.gov.uk -Original Message- From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of John Graybeal Sent: 17 December 2010 00:16 To: Jeff deLaBeaujardiere Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? I offer my two cents on versioned terms, prompted by the 'absolutely right' phrasing :-. I am firmly straddling the fence on this question. There are multiple science users and many technical opinions that say not having versions is absolutely wrong. The circumstances that could make 'current' *not* what you want include: - you need to understand what definition (or other statements) was in effect when the tag was applied - you want to understand the transitions that the definition (or other statements) has undergone over time - the meaning of a term actually is significantly different than it used to be - additional meanings are associated with a term (e.g., an acronym is repurposed by another organization) at a later date I believe the last happens much more often than your confidence suggest -- perhaps especially
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
While I appreciate the argument that having a single unique string to represent each concept in earth science would be ideal, I can promise that no matter what we do with versioning of terms, in 10 years there will be a plethora of URIs representing any given concept (more or less). Hate to say that, but it is inevitable. So in the end, managing the clutter of 'excess' terms will have to be done with user interfaces to hide them, and good semantic tools to map them all together. (Admittedly, neither anywhere near commonly available yet. But it will happen in the fullness of time.) The proliferation/versioning topic was one we thought hard about in MMI, and there are some writeups on the site that may be of interest to a few. [1] It includes a bit more detail than we have pursued here. In case anyone cares: Knowing which vocabulary version a term came from can reveal more than you might realize. While we probably didn't say this explicitly anywhere, the thought in my head for versioning every term when the file changed will seem like an angels on a pin argument to all you practical data folks. It goes as follows: if additional terms are added that are more detailed than the original term (say, sea_surface_skin_temperature and sea_surface_foundation_temperature added to the original term sea_surface_temperature), I would expect people to use the more specific term when possible. (Similarly, 'gay' still means happy, but you don't hear people use it that way.) Thus, even though the definition of a term hasn't changed, its application and implicit meaning can change. Historians have to account for this when reading and understanding older material, and historical data analysts the same. John [1] http://marinemetadata.org/apguides/ontprovidersguide/ontguideconstructinguris (see the Versioned and Unversioned URLs section toward the bottom) On Dec 17, 2010, at 08:37, Lowry, Roy K. wrote: Hi Richard, This echoes a discussion in BODC this afternoon and a thought I had some while ago in that having terms inherit the version number of the list in which they reside was not the best of ideas. However, we concluded that maintenance of list versions was a good idea, particularly if the list governance permits deprecation. I'm not aware of anybody maintaining version numbers at the term level for the Standard Names. Establishing them retrospectively wouldn't be a pleasant task and I don't think there's anything to be gained from their introduction from this point onwards. Cheers, Roy. -Original Message- From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Hattersley, Richard Sent: 17 December 2010 16:13 To: John Graybeal; Jeff deLaBeaujardiere Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? It would seem that the two conflicting requirements, which I'll caricature as rigorous version control and pragmatic usability, could go some way to being reconciled by using term-specific version numbers. Instead of: some_prefix/cf_vocab_number/term (e.g. .../P071/16/CFSN0023) Or: some_prefix/term (e.g. .../parameter/air_temperature) You have: some_prefix/term/term_version Where the term_version is only updated when the definition of the term changes - not when a release of the standard name table occurs. Thus avoiding the proliferation of identifiers. This would still leave a discussion on what constitutes a change, as it's quite possible one may wish to allow minor edits (eg. spelling corrections) for pragmatic reasons. Richard Hattersley AVD Expert Software Developer Met Office FitzRoy Road Exeter Devon EX1 3PB United Kingdom Tel: +44 (0)1392 885702 Fax: +44 (0)1392 885681 Email: richard.hatters...@metoffice.gov.uk Website: www.metoffice.gov.uk -Original Message- From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of John Graybeal Sent: 17 December 2010 00:16 To: Jeff deLaBeaujardiere Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? I offer my two cents on versioned terms, prompted by the 'absolutely right' phrasing :-. I am firmly straddling the fence on this question. There are multiple science users and many technical opinions that say not having versions is absolutely wrong. The circumstances that could make 'current' *not* what you want include: - you need to understand what definition (or other statements) was in effect when the tag was applied - you want to understand the transitions that the definition (or other statements) has undergone over time - the meaning of a term actually is significantly different than it used to be - additional meanings are associated with a term (e.g., an acronym is repurposed by another organization) at a later date I believe the last happens much more
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
hi Benno I think I've been too laconic. I agree with you 100%. What I think we should do is a) define the URIs, unambigously, and yes, that can be done by us (CF) without any need for a service. but I'd like to go a wee bit further, and suggest that b) if you dereference such a URI as a URL, you get something useful. Ideally, you could do a bit of content negotation and get a SKOS document or an HTML definition or an XML definition. That's what I'd like BODC to do for us (but if they don't, we have the capability). In the previous sentence *us* means Alison and her new editing tools. and c) versions. hmm. that might be something to think about next year. Best, Bryan Hi Benno, As usual, you are making valid points. I became aware a while back of the issues resulting from terms inheriting the version number of the list. In SeaDataNet we have been side-stepping the problem in some cases by using URIs that default to the current version. However, that is opening up a whole can of worms with management of URI space in a deprecation use case. The CF community now has the opportunity to set the stage for its future URI addressing by defining Bryan's 'something'. It could just be the Standard Name, but that would completely close down the cfconventions.org namespace. So, a better 'something' would be 'standard_name/' plus the Standard Name. This would totally side-step the list versioning. I don't have a problem with that. Does anybody else? Your request for mappings between multiple URIs for identical entities should become a reality during 2011. I'm happy to do the work, but there's some back-office re-engineering that needs to be done first. Cheers, Roy. From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Benno Blumenthal Sent: 15 December 2010 22:23 To: Bryan Lawrence Cc: John Graybeal; cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu; Steve Hankin Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? I was hoping that this conversation would end on Bryan's statement or thereabouts Actually, I think we really want: http://cfconventions.org/something (We own cfconventions.orghttp://cfconventions.org/, so we can point it where we want!) And I would like in 2011 to have settled on a permanent answer to that question! to which I would like to add Amen! (but I did not want any more e-mails) It is, after all, a pithy answer to the original question. But it was not to be. So now I try to fix the confusion I created earlier, and add my point-of-view to what followed. First of all, we can establish a set of URIs for the standard_name vocabulary without establishing a service, as nice as a service might be. Two separate questions. Secondly, the two sets of SKOS documents are significantly different, and both are missing the essential connection to CF that was in the original MMI construction (my earlier misunderstood point), namely cfsns:standard_name a property that connects the concept to the string that appears in a dataset documented according to the CF convention. skos:prefLabel is not good enough, because it does not mean that in theory (it is a display label). On a practical note, skos:prefLabel is the natural place for language translation, or even getting rid of the _, in which case it will be multivalued with each label tagged by a different language. I think. And BODC serves other vocabularies that have skos:prefLabel that are not cf:standard_names. And we do not want to create the situation where skos:prefLabel has this additional meaning when served from this particular url on this particular server. This is not saying SKOS is a bad thing, in fact BODC has SKOS-relations between standard_names that do not even exist elsewhere, but neither of these representations is complete enough to connote standard_names. So like all representations, they are partial. We should be mapping between them, not picking a victor. Someone needs to serve the mapping. And CF needs to serve the mapping between URIs and attribute strings. *That* is the standard. And then there is something I really do not understand. Both BODC and MMI have versioning in the terms, very good for a vocabulary maintenance point of view. But CF does not have versioning on the standard_name attributes in a file. So all the standard_name s that have the same string representation in CF attributes have to be the same in the fundamental sense that given a dataset with a standard_name tag, it has to map to all the URIs-with-version that have that standard_name tag. So isn't carefully versioning the terms just creating a mess in URI space? If you are going to version whole sets, aren't you obligated to map between versions so that we can figure out which terms have not really changed? I understand that if one is picking one-from-a-set and you change the set, you could
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
Actually, my recollection is that EPSG OGC proposed to include version numbers, and several of us argued against it and managed to convince them. I would have to dig up old emails to find out for certain who was in which camp, however. Regards, Jeff DLB On 2010-12-16 15:57, Lowry, Roy K. wrote: Hi Jeff, It's interesting to see the difference of opinion between the standards developers (the idea of version number in URI came from the OGC URN specification: interesting how EPSG came to a different conclusion) and those who have to live with the consequences. The more I think about it, the more I think you and Benno are absolutely right. Cheers, Roy. From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Jeff deLaBeaujardiere [jeff.delabeaujardi...@noaa.gov] Sent: 16 December 2010 19:40 To: John Graybeal Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? On 2010-12-14 12:56, John Graybeal wrote: Just to be crystal clear, the places where you have '16' could also have 'current' (if I understand correctly what Roy was saying about their server), and the mmisw one could also be served with a particular version ID (analogous to the NERC example). I think it is of the utmost importance to have a URI that does not include a version number and always provides the latest answer. Otherwise you have a proliferation of identifiers mean the same thing but appear to change every time the overall vocabulary is updated. You can also have a version-specific entry if desired. There were similar discussions regarding identifiers for coordinate reference system identifiers from EPSG (European Petroleum Survey Group), and it was fortunately recognized that a version-less URI was essential. -Jeff ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata-- This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only NERC is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the contents of this email and any reply you make may be disclosed by NERC unless it is exempt from release under the Act. Any material supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic records management system. ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
Hi Folks I have to declare a preference to pointing to the BODC copy as the primary copy since we've built our CF vocab management tooling to ingest new vocab members directly into their vocabuarly managment system - and if we have any problems, debugging them can be done on the same timezone. Cheers Bryan Ditto! Implementing what is suggested would be around 20 lines of code. We've done the same for SeaDataNet to get their vocabs within their namespace such as http://www.seadatanet.org/urnurl/SDN:P021::TEMP Cheers, Roy. From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of John Graybeal [jbgrayb...@mindspring.com] Sent: 14 December 2010 17:56 To: Steve Hankin Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? In theory, MMI can support that approach (redirecting cfconventions.org, ideally transparently). (That is, I worked it out in my head once. Haven't actually tried it in practice. I *think* it's just a simple matter of programming. ;-) I think that's the best combination to support both appropriate branding and the kind of support a full time dedicated repository can give. Roy's server perhaps the same. (But not both at once!) Just to be crystal clear, the places where you have '16' could also have 'current' (if I understand correctly what Roy was saying about their server), and the mmisw one could also be served with a particular version ID (analogous to the NERC example). If there is someone on the CF (or other) team that wants to play with us on the 'simple matter of programming' part, that would be a collaboration we'd be happy to encourage. John On Dec 14, 2010, at 08:16, Steve Hankin wrote: I second that thought. On 12/14/2010 3:12 AM, Bryan Lawrence wrote: Hi Dom Actually, I think we really want: http://cfconventions.org/something (We own cfconventions.org, so we can point it where we want!) And I would like in 2011 to have settled on a permanent answer to that question! Cheers Bryan Thanks all, Interesting to see the new MMI ontology work. I take from this discussion then that there is not currently a CF 'blessed' method to reference a term? E.g. for air_temperature I can choose from any of these: http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter/air_temperature http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/term/P071/16/CFSN0023 http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-nam e-ta ble/16/cf-standard-name-table.html#air_temperature plus: http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-na me-ta ble/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml Cheers, Dom On 14/12/10 08:18, Lowry, Roy K. wrote: Dear All, Working to find a way of harmonising the two sources of web-served Standard Names is on by ‘To-Do’ list for next year (part of an issue list fed into the NETMAR project by John G.) Cheers, Roy. *From:* cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] *On Behalf Of *John Graybeal *Sent:* 13 December 2010 22:28 *To:* Benno Blumenthal *Cc:* cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu *Subject:* Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? A minor clarification as to how MMI is doing things: Benno, all, On Dec 13, 2010, at 07:25, Benno Blumenthal wrote: We have tried to get standard URIs for CF concepts, but the effort bogged down. As for standard names, MMI established a set of URIs at http://marinemetadata.org/cf but has not been keeping up to date. Thanks for the mention. This is our older URL, sorry; we are now maintaining CF standard names in our ontology repository, using resolvable URLs. [1] There was a period when MMI was not keeping up to date with CF changes, but in the recent past we have been continuously updating the SKOS ontology for the parameter names at the site Carlos mentioned [1] (We will forward the misleading /cf URL above, or fix it to make clear in some other way the current status; thanks for calling that out.) As with Roy's handling, we provide URLs both for the current version at the reference URL, and for individual releases of the vocabulary. John [1] http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter I have written a XSL transform at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl that can be applied to http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-na me- table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml to generate an up-to-date version, e.g. xsltproc http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-na me -table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml On the other hand, Roy has created opaque URIs for standard names at http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P07/9 contains all the Standard Names
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
I was hoping that this conversation would end on Bryan's statement or thereabouts Actually, I think we really want: http://cfconventions.org/something (We own cfconventions.org, so we can point it where we want!) And I would like in 2011 to have settled on a permanent answer to that question! to which I would like to add Amen! (but I did not want any more e-mails) It is, after all, a pithy answer to the original question. But it was not to be. So now I try to fix the confusion I created earlier, and add my point-of-view to what followed. First of all, we can establish a set of URIs for the standard_name vocabulary without establishing a service, as nice as a service might be. Two separate questions. Secondly, the two sets of SKOS documents are significantly different, and both are missing the essential connection to CF that was in the original MMI construction (my earlier misunderstood point), namely cfsns:standard_name a property that connects the concept to the string that appears in a dataset documented according to the CF convention. skos:prefLabel is not good enough, because it does not mean that in theory (it is a display label). On a practical note, skos:prefLabel is the natural place for language translation, or even getting rid of the _, in which case it will be multivalued with each label tagged by a different language. I think. And BODC serves other vocabularies that have skos:prefLabel that are not cf:standard_names. And we do not want to create the situation where skos:prefLabel has this additional meaning when served from this particular url on this particular server. This is not saying SKOS is a bad thing, in fact BODC has SKOS-relations between standard_names that do not even exist elsewhere, but neither of these representations is complete enough to connote standard_names. So like all representations, they are partial. We should be mapping between them, not picking a victor. Someone needs to serve the mapping. And CF needs to serve the mapping between URIs and attribute strings. *That* is the standard. And then there is something I really do not understand. Both BODC and MMI have versioning in the terms, very good for a vocabulary maintenance point of view. But CF does not have versioning on the standard_name attributes in a file. So all the standard_name s that have the same string representation in CF attributes have to be the same in the fundamental sense that given a dataset with a standard_name tag, it has to map to all the URIs-with-version that have that standard_name tag. So isn't carefully versioning the terms just creating a mess in URI space? If you are going to version whole sets, aren't you obligated to map between versions so that we can figure out which terms have not really changed? I understand that if one is picking one-from-a-set and you change the set, you could change the pick, but we cannot really afford that, since old datasets are not getting relabeled and we cannot find the version, anyway. If we do version standard_name values, than shouldn't the URI's start from when that is required? Benno On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 4:46 AM, Bryan Lawrence bryan.lawre...@stfc.ac.ukwrote: Hi Folks I have to declare a preference to pointing to the BODC copy as the primary copy since we've built our CF vocab management tooling to ingest new vocab members directly into their vocabuarly managment system - and if we have any problems, debugging them can be done on the same timezone. Cheers Bryan Ditto! Implementing what is suggested would be around 20 lines of code. We've done the same for SeaDataNet to get their vocabs within their namespace such as http://www.seadatanet.org/urnurl/SDN:P021::TEMP Cheers, Roy. From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of John Graybeal [jbgrayb...@mindspring.com] Sent: 14 December 2010 17:56 To: Steve Hankin Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? In theory, MMI can support that approach (redirecting cfconventions.org, ideally transparently). (That is, I worked it out in my head once. Haven't actually tried it in practice. I *think* it's just a simple matter of programming. ;-) I think that's the best combination to support both appropriate branding and the kind of support a full time dedicated repository can give. Roy's server perhaps the same. (But not both at once!) Just to be crystal clear, the places where you have '16' could also have 'current' (if I understand correctly what Roy was saying about their server), and the mmisw one could also be served with a particular version ID (analogous to the NERC example). If there is someone on the CF (or other) team that wants to play with us on the 'simple matter of programming' part, that would be a collaboration we'd be happy to encourage. John
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
Thanks all, Interesting to see the new MMI ontology work. I take from this discussion then that there is not currently a CF 'blessed' method to reference a term? E.g. for air_temperature I can choose from any of these: http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter/air_temperature http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/term/P071/16/CFSN0023 http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.html#air_temperature plus: http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml Cheers, Dom On 14/12/10 08:18, Lowry, Roy K. wrote: Dear All, Working to find a way of harmonising the two sources of web-served Standard Names is on by ‘To-Do’ list for next year (part of an issue list fed into the NETMAR project by John G.) Cheers, Roy. *From:* cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] *On Behalf Of *John Graybeal *Sent:* 13 December 2010 22:28 *To:* Benno Blumenthal *Cc:* cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu *Subject:* Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? A minor clarification as to how MMI is doing things: Benno, all, On Dec 13, 2010, at 07:25, Benno Blumenthal wrote: We have tried to get standard URIs for CF concepts, but the effort bogged down. As for standard names, MMI established a set of URIs at http://marinemetadata.org/cf but has not been keeping up to date. Thanks for the mention. This is our older URL, sorry; we are now maintaining CF standard names in our ontology repository, using resolvable URLs. [1] There was a period when MMI was not keeping up to date with CF changes, but in the recent past we have been continuously updating the SKOS ontology for the parameter names at the site Carlos mentioned [1] (We will forward the misleading /cf URL above, or fix it to make clear in some other way the current status; thanks for calling that out.) As with Roy's handling, we provide URLs both for the current version at the reference URL, and for individual releases of the vocabulary. John [1] http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter I have written a XSL transform at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl that can be applied to http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml to generate an up-to-date version, e.g. xsltproc http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml On the other hand, Roy has created opaque URIs for standard names at http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P07/9 contains all the Standard Names that have ever been published, including names that have been aliased http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/9 contains the Standard Names that are currently valid (i.e. those that have not been deprecated through aliasing) http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/9 contains the Standard Names that have been deprecated through aliasing The mapping between deprecates and their replacement aliases my be obtained through the following API call http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/axis2/services/vocab/getMap?subjectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/currentpredicate=255objectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/currentinference=false http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/axis2/services/vocab/getMap?subjectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/currentpredicate=255objectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/currentinference=false he changes them with each version, so it is both more definitive and harder to use. It is also pure SKOS, so one needs to add structure to actually connect it with a CF-described dataset. I plan to write out a map between the two, so that I can use his relationships between CF standard_names, but I do not have it yet. Additional information and ontologies describing the CF structure both as attributes and conceptually are available at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/, including the connections between the standard_name ontologies and the CF structure. Benno On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dominic Lowe dominic.l...@stfc.ac.uk mailto:dominic.l...@stfc.ac.uk wrote: Hello all, What's the current CF recommended scheme for referencing a standard name on the web? (either by URL or URN). I know about the vocab server and the xml/html online versions and could choose to use URLs to point to items in any of these but is there a definitive pattern that should be used? (or at least a best practice that should be encouraged?). Much appreciated, Dominic -- Scanned by iCritical. ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu mailto:CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata -- Dr. M. Benno Blumenthal be...@iri.columbia.edu mailto:be...@iri.columbia.edu International Research Institute for climate and society
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
In theory, MMI can support that approach (redirecting cfconventions.org, ideally transparently). (That is, I worked it out in my head once. Haven't actually tried it in practice. I *think* it's just a simple matter of programming. ;-) I think that's the best combination to support both appropriate branding and the kind of support a full time dedicated repository can give. Roy's server perhaps the same. (But not both at once!) Just to be crystal clear, the places where you have '16' could also have 'current' (if I understand correctly what Roy was saying about their server), and the mmisw one could also be served with a particular version ID (analogous to the NERC example). If there is someone on the CF (or other) team that wants to play with us on the 'simple matter of programming' part, that would be a collaboration we'd be happy to encourage. John On Dec 14, 2010, at 08:16, Steve Hankin wrote: I second that thought. On 12/14/2010 3:12 AM, Bryan Lawrence wrote: Hi Dom Actually, I think we really want: http://cfconventions.org/something (We own cfconventions.org, so we can point it where we want!) And I would like in 2011 to have settled on a permanent answer to that question! Cheers Bryan Thanks all, Interesting to see the new MMI ontology work. I take from this discussion then that there is not currently a CF 'blessed' method to reference a term? E.g. for air_temperature I can choose from any of these: http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter/air_temperature http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/term/P071/16/CFSN0023 http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-ta ble/16/cf-standard-name-table.html#air_temperature plus: http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-ta ble/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml Cheers, Dom On 14/12/10 08:18, Lowry, Roy K. wrote: Dear All, Working to find a way of harmonising the two sources of web-served Standard Names is on by ‘To-Do’ list for next year (part of an issue list fed into the NETMAR project by John G.) Cheers, Roy. *From:* cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] *On Behalf Of *John Graybeal *Sent:* 13 December 2010 22:28 *To:* Benno Blumenthal *Cc:* cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu *Subject:* Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? A minor clarification as to how MMI is doing things: Benno, all, On Dec 13, 2010, at 07:25, Benno Blumenthal wrote: We have tried to get standard URIs for CF concepts, but the effort bogged down. As for standard names, MMI established a set of URIs at http://marinemetadata.org/cf but has not been keeping up to date. Thanks for the mention. This is our older URL, sorry; we are now maintaining CF standard names in our ontology repository, using resolvable URLs. [1] There was a period when MMI was not keeping up to date with CF changes, but in the recent past we have been continuously updating the SKOS ontology for the parameter names at the site Carlos mentioned [1] (We will forward the misleading /cf URL above, or fix it to make clear in some other way the current status; thanks for calling that out.) As with Roy's handling, we provide URLs both for the current version at the reference URL, and for individual releases of the vocabulary. John [1] http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter I have written a XSL transform at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl that can be applied to http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name- table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml to generate an up-to-date version, e.g. xsltproc http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name -table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml On the other hand, Roy has created opaque URIs for standard names at http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P07/9 contains all the Standard Names that have ever been published, including names that have been aliased http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/9 contains the Standard Names that are currently valid (i.e. those that have not been deprecated through aliasing) http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/9 contains the Standard Names that have been deprecated through aliasing The mapping between deprecates and their replacement aliases my be obtained through the following API call http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/axis2/services/vocab/getMap?subjectList =http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/currentpredicate=255object List=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/currentinference=false http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/axis2/services/vocab/getMap?subjectLi st=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/currentpredicate=255obje ctList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/currentinference=fals e he changes them with each version, so it is both more definitive and harder to use. It is also pure SKOS
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
Ditto! Implementing what is suggested would be around 20 lines of code. We've done the same for SeaDataNet to get their vocabs within their namespace such as http://www.seadatanet.org/urnurl/SDN:P021::TEMP Cheers, Roy. From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of John Graybeal [jbgrayb...@mindspring.com] Sent: 14 December 2010 17:56 To: Steve Hankin Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? In theory, MMI can support that approach (redirecting cfconventions.org, ideally transparently). (That is, I worked it out in my head once. Haven't actually tried it in practice. I *think* it's just a simple matter of programming. ;-) I think that's the best combination to support both appropriate branding and the kind of support a full time dedicated repository can give. Roy's server perhaps the same. (But not both at once!) Just to be crystal clear, the places where you have '16' could also have 'current' (if I understand correctly what Roy was saying about their server), and the mmisw one could also be served with a particular version ID (analogous to the NERC example). If there is someone on the CF (or other) team that wants to play with us on the 'simple matter of programming' part, that would be a collaboration we'd be happy to encourage. John On Dec 14, 2010, at 08:16, Steve Hankin wrote: I second that thought. On 12/14/2010 3:12 AM, Bryan Lawrence wrote: Hi Dom Actually, I think we really want: http://cfconventions.org/something (We own cfconventions.org, so we can point it where we want!) And I would like in 2011 to have settled on a permanent answer to that question! Cheers Bryan Thanks all, Interesting to see the new MMI ontology work. I take from this discussion then that there is not currently a CF 'blessed' method to reference a term? E.g. for air_temperature I can choose from any of these: http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter/air_temperature http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/term/P071/16/CFSN0023 http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-ta ble/16/cf-standard-name-table.html#air_temperature plus: http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-ta ble/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml Cheers, Dom On 14/12/10 08:18, Lowry, Roy K. wrote: Dear All, Working to find a way of harmonising the two sources of web-served Standard Names is on by ‘To-Do’ list for next year (part of an issue list fed into the NETMAR project by John G.) Cheers, Roy. *From:* cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [mailto:cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] *On Behalf Of *John Graybeal *Sent:* 13 December 2010 22:28 *To:* Benno Blumenthal *Cc:* cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu *Subject:* Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? A minor clarification as to how MMI is doing things: Benno, all, On Dec 13, 2010, at 07:25, Benno Blumenthal wrote: We have tried to get standard URIs for CF concepts, but the effort bogged down. As for standard names, MMI established a set of URIs at http://marinemetadata.org/cf but has not been keeping up to date. Thanks for the mention. This is our older URL, sorry; we are now maintaining CF standard names in our ontology repository, using resolvable URLs. [1] There was a period when MMI was not keeping up to date with CF changes, but in the recent past we have been continuously updating the SKOS ontology for the parameter names at the site Carlos mentioned [1] (We will forward the misleading /cf URL above, or fix it to make clear in some other way the current status; thanks for calling that out.) As with Roy's handling, we provide URLs both for the current version at the reference URL, and for individual releases of the vocabulary. John [1] http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter I have written a XSL transform at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl that can be applied to http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name- table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml to generate an up-to-date version, e.g. xsltproc http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name -table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml On the other hand, Roy has created opaque URIs for standard names at http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P07/9 contains all the Standard Names that have ever been published, including names that have been aliased http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/9 contains the Standard Names that are currently valid (i.e. those that have not been deprecated through aliasing) http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/9 contains the Standard Names that have been deprecated through aliasing The mapping between deprecates and their replacement aliases my be obtained through the following API call http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
We have tried to get standard URIs for CF concepts, but the effort bogged down. As for standard names, MMI established a set of URIs at http://marinemetadata.org/cf but has not been keeping up to date. I have written a XSL transform at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl that can be applied to http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml to generate an up-to-date version, e.g. xsltproc http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml On the other hand, Roy has created opaque URIs for standard names at http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P07/9 contains all the Standard Names that have ever been published, including names that have been aliased http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/9 contains the Standard Names that are currently valid (i.e. those that have not been deprecated through aliasing) http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/9 contains the Standard Names that have been deprecated through aliasing The mapping between deprecates and their replacement aliases my be obtained through the following API call http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/axis2/services/vocab/getMap?subjectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/currentpredicate=255objectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/currentinference=false he changes them with each version, so it is both more definitive and harder to use. It is also pure SKOS, so one needs to add structure to actually connect it with a CF-described dataset. I plan to write out a map between the two, so that I can use his relationships between CF standard_names, but I do not have it yet. Additional information and ontologies describing the CF structure both as attributes and conceptually are available at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/, including the connections between the standard_name ontologies and the CF structure. Benno On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dominic Lowe dominic.l...@stfc.ac.uk wrote: Hello all, What's the current CF recommended scheme for referencing a standard name on the web? (either by URL or URN). I know about the vocab server and the xml/html online versions and could choose to use URLs to point to items in any of these but is there a definitive pattern that should be used? (or at least a best practice that should be encouraged?). Much appreciated, Dominic -- Scanned by iCritical. ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata -- Dr. M. Benno Blumenthal be...@iri.columbia.edu International Research Institute for climate and society The Earth Institute at Columbia University Lamont Campus, Palisades NY 10964-8000 (845) 680-4450 ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
Hi Benno, That's a pretty thorough overview of the current position. One minor point is that the URIs you give from my system serve version 9 - not the current version. Replace the '9' by 'current' to get the latest version e.g. http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/9 http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/currentcurrent . Cheers, Roy. From: cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Benno Blumenthal [be...@iri.columbia.edu] Sent: 13 December 2010 15:25 To: Dominic Lowe Cc: cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu Subject: Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? We have tried to get standard URIs for CF concepts, but the effort bogged down. As for standard names, MMI established a set of URIs at http://marinemetadata.org/cf but has not been keeping up to date. I have written a XSL transform at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl that can be applied to http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml to generate an up-to-date version, e.g. xsltproc http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml On the other hand, Roy has created opaque URIs for standard names at http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P07/9 contains all the Standard Names that have ever been published, including names that have been aliased http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/9 contains the Standard Names that are currently valid (i.e. those that have not been deprecated through aliasing) http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/9 contains the Standard Names that have been deprecated through aliasing The mapping between deprecates and their replacement aliases my be obtained through the following API call http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/axis2/services/vocab/getMap?subjectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/currentpredicate=255objectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/currentinference=false he changes them with each version, so it is both more definitive and harder to use. It is also pure SKOS, so one needs to add structure to actually connect it with a CF-described dataset. I plan to write out a map between the two, so that I can use his relationships between CF standard_names, but I do not have it yet. Additional information and ontologies describing the CF structure both as attributes and conceptually are available at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/, including the connections between the standard_name ontologies and the CF structure. Benno On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dominic Lowe dominic.l...@stfc.ac.ukmailto:dominic.l...@stfc.ac.uk wrote: Hello all, What's the current CF recommended scheme for referencing a standard name on the web? (either by URL or URN). I know about the vocab server and the xml/html online versions and could choose to use URLs to point to items in any of these but is there a definitive pattern that should be used? (or at least a best practice that should be encouraged?). Much appreciated, Dominic -- Scanned by iCritical. ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edumailto:CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata -- Dr. M. Benno Blumenthal be...@iri.columbia.edumailto:be...@iri.columbia.edu International Research Institute for climate and society The Earth Institute at Columbia University Lamont Campus, Palisades NY 10964-8000 (845) 680-4450 -- This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only NERC is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the contents of this email and any reply you make may be disclosed by NERC unless it is exempt from release under the Act. Any material supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic records management system.___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
Hello Dominic and all, MMI maintains an SKOS-based representation of the CF standard names at the MMI Ontology Registry and Repository (ORR): http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter In your browser, this URL will open the ontology in the ORR Portal. You can click the Versions button to see a history of the versions we have at the ORR. You can use content negotiation or an extension to request a particular format, eg: http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter.rdf http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter.n3 You can find more details about the SKOS representation, mappings, Web resolution of terms, and SPARQL queries involving the CF ontology at: http://marinemetadata.org/orrcf . We would appreciate much any feedback to improve this service and the documentation. Best regards, Carlos On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 8:10 AM, Lowry, Roy K. r...@bodc.ac.uk wrote: Hi Benno, That's a pretty thorough overview of the current position. One minor point is that the URIs you give from my system serve version 9 - not the current version. Replace the '9' by 'current' to get the latest version e.g. http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/9 http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/currentcurrent . Cheers, Roy. -- *From:* cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu [cf-metadata-boun...@cgd.ucar.edu] On Behalf Of Benno Blumenthal [be...@iri.columbia.edu] *Sent:* 13 December 2010 15:25 *To:* Dominic Lowe *Cc:* cf-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu *Subject:* Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name? We have tried to get standard URIs for CF concepts, but the effort bogged down. As for standard names, MMI established a set of URIs at http://marinemetadata.org/cf but has not been keeping up to date. I have written a XSL transform at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl that can be applied to http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml to generate an up-to-date version, e.g. xsltproc http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml On the other hand, Roy has created opaque URIs for standard names at http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P07/9 contains all the Standard Names that have ever been published, including names that have been aliased http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/9 contains the Standard Names that are currently valid (i.e. those that have not been deprecated through aliasing) http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/9 contains the Standard Names that have been deprecated through aliasing The mapping between deprecates and their replacement aliases my be obtained through the following API call http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/axis2/services/vocab/getMap?subjectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/currentpredicate=255objectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/currentinference=false he changes them with each version, so it is both more definitive and harder to use. It is also pure SKOS, so one needs to add structure to actually connect it with a CF-described dataset. I plan to write out a map between the two, so that I can use his relationships between CF standard_names, but I do not have it yet. Additional information and ontologies describing the CF structure both as attributes and conceptually are available at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/, including the connections between the standard_name ontologies and the CF structure. Benno On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dominic Lowe dominic.l...@stfc.ac.uk wrote: Hello all, What's the current CF recommended scheme for referencing a standard name on the web? (either by URL or URN). I know about the vocab server and the xml/html online versions and could choose to use URLs to point to items in any of these but is there a definitive pattern that should be used? (or at least a best practice that should be encouraged?). Much appreciated, Dominic -- Scanned by iCritical. ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata -- Dr. M. Benno Blumenthal be...@iri.columbia.edu International Research Institute for climate and society The Earth Institute at Columbia University Lamont Campus, Palisades NY 10964-8000 (845) 680-4450 -- This message (and any attachments) is for the recipient only. NERC is subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 and the contents of this email and any reply you make may be disclosed by NERC unless it is exempt from release under the Act. Any material supplied to NERC may be stored in an electronic records management system. ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
A minor clarification as to how MMI is doing things: Benno, all, On Dec 13, 2010, at 07:25, Benno Blumenthal wrote: We have tried to get standard URIs for CF concepts, but the effort bogged down. As for standard names, MMI established a set of URIs at http://marinemetadata.org/cf but has not been keeping up to date. Thanks for the mention. This is our older URL, sorry; we are now maintaining CF standard names in our ontology repository, using resolvable URLs. [1] There was a period when MMI was not keeping up to date with CF changes, but in the recent past we have been continuously updating the SKOS ontology for the parameter names at the site Carlos mentioned [1] (We will forward the misleading /cf URL above, or fix it to make clear in some other way the current status; thanks for calling that out.) As with Roy's handling, we provide URLs both for the current version at the reference URL, and for individual releases of the vocabulary. John [1] http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter I have written a XSL transform at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl that can be applied to http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml to generate an up-to-date version, e.g. xsltproc http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml On the other hand, Roy has created opaque URIs for standard names at http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P07/9 contains all the Standard Names that have ever been published, including names that have been aliased http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/9 contains the Standard Names that are currently valid (i.e. those that have not been deprecated through aliasing) http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/9 contains the Standard Names that have been deprecated through aliasing The mapping between deprecates and their replacement aliases my be obtained through the following API call http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/axis2/services/vocab/getMap?subjectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/currentpredicate=255objectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/currentinference=false he changes them with each version, so it is both more definitive and harder to use. It is also pure SKOS, so one needs to add structure to actually connect it with a CF-described dataset. I plan to write out a map between the two, so that I can use his relationships between CF standard_names, but I do not have it yet. Additional information and ontologies describing the CF structure both as attributes and conceptually are available at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/, including the connections between the standard_name ontologies and the CF structure. Benno On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dominic Lowe dominic.l...@stfc.ac.uk wrote: Hello all, What's the current CF recommended scheme for referencing a standard name on the web? (either by URL or URN). I know about the vocab server and the xml/html online versions and could choose to use URLs to point to items in any of these but is there a definitive pattern that should be used? (or at least a best practice that should be encouraged?). Much appreciated, Dominic -- Scanned by iCritical. ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata -- Dr. M. Benno Blumenthal be...@iri.columbia.edu International Research Institute for climate and society The Earth Institute at Columbia University Lamont Campus, Palisades NY 10964-8000 (845) 680-4450 ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata John Graybeal mailto:jgrayb...@ucsd.edu phone: 858-534-2162 System Development Manager Ocean Observatories Initiative Cyberinfrastructure Project: http://ci.oceanobservatories.org Marine Metadata Interoperability Project: http://marinemetadata.org ___ CF-metadata mailing list CF-metadata@cgd.ucar.edu http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
Re: [CF-metadata] Web reference to a standard name?
On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 5:27 PM, John Graybeal jbgrayb...@mindspring.comwrote: A minor clarification as to how MMI is doing things: Benno, all, On Dec 13, 2010, at 07:25, Benno Blumenthal wrote: We have tried to get standard URIs for CF concepts, but the effort bogged down. As for standard names, MMI established a set of URIs at http://marinemetadata.org/cf but has not been keeping up to date. Thanks for the mention. This is our older URL, sorry; we are now maintaining CF standard names in our ontology repository, using resolvable URLs. [1] There was a period when MMI was not keeping up to date with CF changes, but in the recent past we have been continuously updating the SKOS ontology for the parameter names at the site Carlos mentioned [1] (We will forward the misleading /cf URL above, or fix it to make clear in some other way the current status; thanks for calling that out.) Glad you have a new system that can need up-to-date. Let me point out two things, very important to me at least. 1) you changed the namespace of the standard names, so your new document is not a direct replacement of the old, you would need to provide a mapping to make the new replace the old. 2) you changed the ontology. SKOS is good and fine, but it makes it impossible to connect to CF -- that is external to what you are providing. Your old ontology, because it was a complete representation of what was in the XML file, gave a handle to map from a XML representation of a netcdf file to the semantic representation of standard names. You cannot get that by a redirect to your SKOS representation. To be more concrete, in my system, I have cfatt:standard_name which is string_valued, and is one of many attributes a variable in a netcdf file can have. If a variable has that string valued attribute, it can be connected to the SKOS term corresponding to the standard name. Since SKOS is deprecating that property, (or at least was last time I looked), I use my own property iriterm:isDescribedBy So my variable has var iriterm:isDescribedBy cfsn:air_temperature. and var cfatt:standard_name air_temperature. when the crosswalking is done. The crosswalk uses the standard_name property of the old Standard_Name objects to connect the objects to the cfatt property of the netcdf variable. SKOS is important for interrelating concepts, but we need to relate to the CF structure as well. Please do not throw away this key piece of the problem in an effort to standardize. Benno As with Roy's handling, we provide URLs both for the current version at the reference URL, and for individual releases of the vocabulary. John [1] http://mmisw.org/ont/cf/parameter I have written a XSL transform at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl that can be applied to http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml to generate an up-to-date version, e.g. xsltproc http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/xslt/.cfsn2rdf.xsl http://cf-pcmdi.llnl.gov/documents/cf-standard-names/standard-name-table/16/cf-standard-name-table.xml On the other hand, Roy has created opaque URIs for standard names at http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P07/9 contains all the Standard Names that have ever been published, including names that have been aliased http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/9 contains the Standard Names that are currently valid (i.e. those that have not been deprecated through aliasing) http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/9 contains the Standard Names that have been deprecated through aliasing The mapping between deprecates and their replacement aliases my be obtained through the following API call http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/axis2/services/vocab/getMap?subjectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P072/currentpredicate=255objectList=http://vocab.ndg.nerc.ac.uk/list/P071/currentinference=false he changes them with each version, so it is both more definitive and harder to use. It is also pure SKOS, so one needs to add structure to actually connect it with a CF-described dataset. I plan to write out a map between the two, so that I can use his relationships between CF standard_names, but I do not have it yet. Additional information and ontologies describing the CF structure both as attributes and conceptually are available at http://iridl.ldeo.columbia.edu/ontologies/, including the connections between the standard_name ontologies and the CF structure. Benno On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 9:22 AM, Dominic Lowe dominic.l...@stfc.ac.uk wrote: Hello all, What's the current CF recommended scheme for referencing a standard name on the web? (either by URL or URN). I know about the vocab server and the xml/html online versions and could choose to use URLs to point to items in any of these but is there a definitive pattern that should be used? (or at least a best practice that should be
