RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Novak wrote: As long as we're using petty reasons I'll add my 2 cents. I can't stand the fact that an advanced editor like DWMX doesn't allow me to mark a COLUMN of text. Cheaper editors like UltraEdit allow this and have done so for many, may versions. Mosh Teitelbaum wrote: Just out of curiosity... why would you need to be able to block out columnar text for CF coding? I can understand for languages like ASM or Fortran where columnar coding is syntactical or customary, but CF? Novak wrote: The real question is... why not? :-) Why should a standard freeware or shareware text editor have this feature but a product as high priced as DWMX not have it? Just a guess (based my own, personal experience); because the shareware/freeware versions are either intended to be all purpose, all language programming IDEs or because they will throw in every feature they can think of in the hopes that just one more person will find that feature interesting/useful and therefore buy the product. CF Studio and DWMX are (I would venture to guess) not intended for programming languages other than Cold Fusion and CF-related languages (HTML, XML, JS, CSS, etc.). It is specialized for its core set of languages. Many of the projects I work on involve editing more than just .cfm files. But even with .cfm files there are several times when I'm in code view and want to remove a column of text or insert a column of text. So, I'm not trying to be annoying here, I'm just generally curious; what possible reason could you have that, in a Cold Fusion application (which is generally indented, not columnar), you need to cut paste columns. Unless you're using CF to generate ASM code 8^). -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Going off topic (PHP DWMX) (was: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
On Thursday, Oct 17, 2002, at 21:19 US/Pacific, Dave Watts wrote:
In Design View ...
I'm sorry, but I have an irrational mortal fear of Design View.
SOT: but I like the fact that for PHP Design View handles situations
where you include header and footer files and it actually renders the
finished page including styles (from the included header). My page
looks like:
? include('header.php'); ?
pBlah blah blah. Simple formatted HTML text./p
? include('footer.php'); ?
header.php has htmlhead.../headbody...
footer.php has .../body/html
And I can edit the simple formatted HTML text in place.
ObCF: Of course, DWMX can't do this for CF since cfinclude... pulls
in a file based on various server mappings etc etc. But you do have
Live Data View...
Sean A Corfield -- http://www.corfield.org/blog/
If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive.
-- Margaret Atwood
~|
Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4
Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk
FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq
This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for
dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
I don't see how my editorial could have slanted anything from this thread since the editorial was written and published long before this thread started. Matt Liotta President CEO Montara Software, Inc. http://www.montarasoftware.com/ 888-408-0900 x901 -Original Message- From: Gyrus [mailto:gyrus;rooted.freeuk.com] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 8:25 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! - Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] This thread is quite interesting in light of some of the comments I have received since writing an editorial entitled, Macromedia's Struggle (http://www.evolt.org/article/Macromedia_s_Struggle/25/43431/index.html) Seems like a slanted representation, of this list at least. I'm quite firmly in the DWMX is a jack of both trades and master of neither / yay Homesite+ camp, but loads of people here seem to be doing pretty well arguing against this with good experiences of DWMX. Maybe you should have used that I word: I think..., rather than, this is what the lists are like ;-) Interesting to read the comments from non CF-Talk people, though. Gyrus [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: http://www.tengai.co.uk play: http://www.norlonto.net PGP key available ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Exactly how I feel. It's good for some things, not so good for others. I recommend learning the ins and outs of it now, so you won't be playing catch-up with the rest of us once it is a worthy alternative to cfstudio for all daily use. I use CFStudio and DW... and will continue to do so until one or the other has ALL the features I'm looking for. Same here, I even use CF Studio to write DW's extensions :-))) Anyway, the day DW would be finally be a perfect alternative to CF Studio/Homesite, I will always have a need for a lighting fast, generic, text-only editor, not necessarily a CF-oriented tool, something like Ultraedit or EditPlus should do the job Massimo Foti Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver http://www.macromedia.com/go/team ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
But ... the discussion is not over yet. If any of you will be at DevCon (you all will be, right?) we'll be having an open forum Tuesday evening where you'll be able to share your ideas, concerns, suggestions, etc. pertaining to CF development environments - and you are encouraged to share it all - the good, the bad, and the ugly. I can't promise any particular outcome, but I can promise that in attendance will be individuals who are thinking this all through and so this will be your chance to talk to the right people directly. I hope to see you all there! I am not coming to DevCon :-( Anyway, in my opinion MM should keep developing Homesite, add to it a few of the former CF Studio features (query builder to mention just one) and keep selling it at a separate product. This should make everyone happy (including me, since I use DW but can't live without Homesite/CF studio) Massimo Foti Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver http://www.macromedia.com/go/team ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
Re: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Now, in Dreamweaver, whenever you start it in Homesite style, there's a narrow arrow there on the line between the leftmost panels and the working editor window. If you click on that arrow, it 'hides' your left panels groups and leaves you with your Insert menu and your properties panels below. (Note, this is a lot like CF Studio's F-9 keystroke, in that it hides that left work space and retains the important top and bottom work areas). If you click on the arrow again, it expands it back. Okay, I'm *aware* of F4 to hide panels. This isn't what I'm looking for. F4 hides ALL the panels. I even scoured the customize keystroke thingy, and I just couldn't find out what collapsing that little line between the left and right was *called* to even assign it to anything. I know it's petty, but damn, it's *so* irritating. Any idea what the hell I'm talking about? Any way to assign a keystroke to simulating the effect of clicking on that line? You can write a small extension to hide/show a custom set of panels and assign a keyboardshortcut to it. I am not saying it's a piece of cake, the code is almost trivial, but it require a basic understanding of the API. Anyway, it's doable. In case you want to give it a try, check Help Extending DW and feel free to contact me if you get stuck, I can't answer very fast to emails these days, but I will answer Massimo Foti Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver http://www.macromedia.com/go/team ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Dreamweaver to me lacks too many of the core functions I fell in love with in Studio, like being able to run a Find/Replace on a selection of text. That bugs the heck out of me too. However, that brings up a noteworthy point. (At least, I think it's noteworthy.) A fellow Italian CF TMM wrote an extension for this: http://www.bellavite.com/ It's under Dreamweaver area and it's called RegExp Search Replace I know you would like to have this out of the box, but the extension is pretty useful Massimo Foti Team Macromedia Volunteer for Dreamweaver http://www.macromedia.com/go/team ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
My biggest complaint is speed, I actually never dug deep into it because it was too slow unless I closed out all the other applications I am normally using when developing. I just find it odd that in computers all with at least 512mb of ram and all well over 600mhz in cpu, that I can't multitask without major slow downs when using DWMX. You might find this configuration tip useful: http://cfmxplus.blogspot.com/2002_10_13_cfmxplus_archive.html#85569469 Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Most developers I know don't use half the features of ColdFusion Studio (I can't remember the last time I click something in the tabs). So a move to DW is totally nonsensical. Most developers, at least the good ones, don't need or want designer tools. These seem to be pretty broad statements. I'd have a hard time saying that I know what most developers want or need. I do not feel like I'm in the minority by saying, skip the upgrade to DW and just get the tag updater for Studio 5. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, if you prefer CF Studio to Dreamweaver MX. You'd be a fool to do otherwise, just because MM wants you to buy their latest shiny new toy. On the other hand, you'd also be a fool if you just listened to everyone complain about how bad DWMX is, without evaluating it for yourself. So the question becomes: what point is there to upgrading? There is none. There are certainly some people who prefer Dreamweaver MX to CF Studio. They may not be especially vocal on this list, they may be a minority, but there are some out there. And perhaps, I'm being a bit critical, but I cannot figure out why developers are defending DWMX. Well, from my perspective, I can't figure out why developers here are attacking DWMX. It's not like MM is coming to your house and forcing you to buy it at gunpoint. No one's going to pry your copy of CF Studio 5 from your hard drive. What I've objected to, on this list, is the rabid the sky is falling reaction that many people seem to have about the very existence of Dreamweaver MX. To summarize, here's what people are saying: 1. Dreamweaver MX sucks. I'll leave this open to debate. I certainly have my own complaints about it, but frankly, the more I use it, the more comfortable I become with it, and I find myself using Studio less and less. There are a number of things that I think Dreamweaver MX does for me better than Studio. Is it perfect? No, far from it. Do I think that, two or three revisions down the road, it'll be a really good editor? Yes, I do - and I don't think the same is true for CF Studio, which really hasn't changed that significantly over its last two versions. 2. MM is abandoning CF Studio and Homesite. This doesn't seem to actually be the case, since there's a new version of CF Studio, relabeled Homesite+. MM might not be marketing it, but it's there. MM might abandon it in the future, but who knows what will happen in the future anyway? I think that the long-term goal for MM is to replace CF Studio with Dreamweaver MX, but they won't be able to do that successfully until they make it good enough for everyone to want to use, and at that point, well, everyone will want to use it. This reminds me very much of the history of Visual Studio, as I've commented here more than once. It started out being, well, not very good, and no one liked it. Now, everyone who uses it generally likes it a lot. Does that mean that those people should have embraced the first, not-so-good version? No, but it does indicate that we could do with a bit less pessimism about the future. 3. You can't buy Homesite+ without buying DWMX. Big deal. You pay the same price (or less) buying the two together as you paid last year for CF Studio by itself. 4. Dammit Jim, I'm a programmer, not a designer! Just because DWMX has functionality that's useful for designers doesn't mean that it can't be made into a good editor for coders. That should be a lot easier to accomplish than making CF Studio into a good environment for designers. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Hi Mosh, Generally speaking it's just a force of habit and what I've gotten used to over the years. Even in my old text based editor (called QEdit) I was able to both insert and delete a column of text. [To me] it's like someone coming into my office one day and telling me I can't use Ctrl-C, Ctrl-X, and Ctrl-V... that from now on I'll have to highlight the text, right click, select cut/copy/paste. The same thing (roughly) applies to what I'm talking about. Here's a quick example... let's say I'm creating a quick and dirty html form. input type=hidden name=field_a value= size=15 maxlength=15 input type=hidden name=field_b value= size=15 maxlength=15 input type=hidden name=field_c value= size=15 maxlength=15 input type=hidden name=field_d value= size=15 maxlength=15 In DWMX I'd either have to insert the elements or I'd have to write it out once, and copy it three more times. In UltraEdit all I do is highlight a column 4 rows deep and start typing input type=hidden... BUT... silly me... as you can see I made a mistake... I really ment for those fields to be text... not hidden. In DWMX I have to manually change the hidden to text. Using UltraEdit I just mark the column, hit delete, and type in text. All four rows get changed. This is somewhat of a poor example but it really applies to just about any time you have lines of code that are similar to each other. CFSET statements, IMG tags, tables... almost anything where you have similar lines of code. Another quick example: input class=mainInput type=text name=field_a value= size=15 maxlength=15 input class=mainInput type=text name=field_b value= size=15 maxlength=15 input class=mainInput type=text name=field_c value= size=15 maxlength=15 input class=mainInput type=text name=field_d value= size=15 maxlength=15 If I want to change mainInput to a different class name I can either 1) Use the design mode, highlight the elements I want to change, and pick a new style (yuck)... or... 2) Just change them in code view with cut/paste (better)... 3) Use search/replace to do it (not good either because you might replace something you didn't want to) In UltraEdit I just highlight the block of text, hit delete, and type over top. Then of course there's the whole issue of indenting your code. I don't want to have to highlight my block of code and then select the menu option (or memorize a hotkey) to indent the code. I want to simply highlight a column and hit the space bar a few times. It's not like the lack of this feature is a complete deal breaker or anything like that. I do own a copy of DWMX and use it. But it's just a feature I have grown accustomed to and use a lot. Just like cut/copy/paste. More often than not I find myself using a DOS window, UltraEdit (along with it's built in FTP support), and a browser for previewing. It just loads things faster and seems more efficient when it comes to editing code. In any case... I'm sure this thread is now waaay off topic. If you want to know more about UltraEdit you can download a free trial from ultraedit.com (I think). -Novak - Original Message - From: Mosh Teitelbaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 10:16 PM Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! Novak wrote: As long as we're using petty reasons I'll add my 2 cents. I can't stand the fact that an advanced editor like DWMX doesn't allow me to mark a COLUMN of text. Cheaper editors like UltraEdit allow this and have done so for many, may versions. Mosh Teitelbaum wrote: Just out of curiosity... why would you need to be able to block out columnar text for CF coding? I can understand for languages like ASM or Fortran where columnar coding is syntactical or customary, but CF? Novak wrote: The real question is... why not? :-) Why should a standard freeware or shareware text editor have this feature but a product as high priced as DWMX not have it? Just a guess (based my own, personal experience); because the shareware/freeware versions are either intended to be all purpose, all language programming IDEs or because they will throw in every feature they can think of in the hopes that just one more person will find that feature interesting/useful and therefore buy the product. CF Studio and DWMX are (I would venture to guess) not intended for programming languages other than Cold Fusion and CF-related languages (HTML, XML, JS, CSS, etc.). It is specialized for its core set of languages. Many of the projects I work on involve editing more than just .cfm files. But even with .cfm files there are several times when I'm in code view and want to remove a column of text or insert a column of text. So, I'm not trying to be annoying here, I'm just generally curious; what possible reason could you have that, in a Cold Fusion application (which is generally indented, not columnar), you need to cut paste columns. Unless
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Hi, Realistically it only take 2-3 minutes to set up a site in DWMX... If it takes you up to 5 minutes per site def you could still do it in 1 day. Besides, why not just set up the sites as you need to over time? I had the same feeling as most when I started using DWMX, but now, I use it regularly. I don't have the time to spend defining the ~60 active sites that we service. Best regards, Mike Wilson ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Hi, I agree with you about the selection find/replace option, however; can you provide an example of the horrendous code code you mentioned. I have yet to see anything totally crazy in this area during my usage of DWMX. It would be beneficial to know where DWMX fails in the coding department. Thanks, Mike Wilson -Original Message- Dreamweaver to me lacks too many of the core functions I fell in love with in Studio, like being able to run a Find/Replace on a selection of text. It's the lack of these simple functions that makes dreamweaver a pain. (Not too mention the horrendous code it generates) ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Re: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
- Original Message - From: Matt Liotta [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't see how my editorial could have slanted anything from this thread since the editorial was written and published long before this thread started. --- You talked about this thread; I mentioned this list. This same debate has occurred before (presumably what you were referring to in the article), and I recall it being the same close-to-equal division between anti-DWMX, pro-DWMX, half-and-half. Gyrus [EMAIL PROTECTED] work: http://www.tengai.co.uk play: http://www.norlonto.net PGP key available ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
I agree with you about the selection find/replace option, however; can you provide an example of the horrendous code code you mentioned. I have yet to see anything totally crazy in this area during my usage of DWMX. It would be beneficial to know where DWMX fails in the coding department. Randomly deciding to URL encode half my template. That was in ASP though. Tom Chiverton You don't have to be a mad scientist to believe in ColdFusion ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Vern, Well, I for one miss CFStudio, but I'm not going back. I think if Macromedia took the time to listen to the communities they'll find ways to make DWMX better. I know, I for one miss the following: - * F9 (which is now F4 that only works if the insert panel is open and available). I submitted this via wishlist as a bug. * Keyboard Mapped Snipplets - Being able to hit Cntrl Q to spit out a generic cfquery statement was such a huge timesaver. I submitted this via wishlist as an enhancement. * Half the current keyboard commands don't work. If I try to map to ColdFusion Comment, it doesn't work in developer mode, it only works in design/wysiwyg mode. Submitted to wishlist as a bug. * Realize that if majority of us are going to be forced to work in DWMX we'd like the option of disabling that visual mode and not even having to deal with it (hell, don't even load it up in the background, I don't want or need it. I want an IDE that'll help me type CF code faster and I want my help files, that's all I ask for). Have not submitted. * Consider reworking that window that shows you the files. Make the folders a different color from the file icons. I have to say that I like the File/Folder explorer in CFStudio better. It'd be nice if this were an option. If you have a lot of folders, you'll see a lot of horizontal scrolling. Have not submitted. * I have an issue with WinXP / DWMX. I find if I'm in WinXp's crayola mode, that if I minimize the program, the DWMX screws up. If you need a screenshot, let me know. I know I like the following: * The IDE interface is fine, I'm glad that it looks like the rest of the Studio MX applications. * CFC code/panel is kind of neat. Make sure the server is setup correctly tho as there is a dependency. * The sites manager thing is helpful to me. * At first, I didn't like the help files seperated from the IDE. Now, I'm getting used to the alt-tabbing and don't mind it. It'd be nice if the help file could also retrieve the livedoc info (if the user asked for that preference). I am finding that as a developer, I really only use _1_ panel the most. That's the files panel in which I have access to Site Assets and I moved Snipplets there. I'd also use Application, but so far I haven't needed to. All the other panels are closed / removed. Call me a minimalist. ~Todd -- Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ | Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion | http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/ | http://www.flashCFM.com/ - webRat (Moderator)| http://www.ultrashock.com/ - webRat (Back-end Moderator) | Speakeasy DSL - http://www.speakeasy.net/refer/18280| ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Re: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
I would suggest that DW have a Coldfusion Studio mode. When you switch to that mode DW becomes a dedicated Coldfusion IDE and then we can switch back to DW mode for designers. This way we have the best of both worlds. DW is a pretty good product but I think it's trying to do too much. Ben Forta wrote: Dave, All valid points. And one more to consider, HomeSite/Studio is written in Delphi - the only MM product to be written in that language. That's why there was no Mac version (something lots of folks asked for back in Allaire days). It's hard to cost-justify keeping a team of Delphi developers to maintain one product - especially one that sells only a fraction of what DW sells. Trust me, this was not an easy decision, but it was a responsible one. In case anyone was unaware, these are tough times - there is something to be said for fiscal responsibility. But ... the discussion is not over yet. If any of you will be at DevCon (you all will be, right?) we'll be having an open forum Tuesday evening where you'll be able to share your ideas, concerns, suggestions, etc. pertaining to CF development environments - and you are encouraged to share it all - the good, the bad, and the ugly. I can't promise any particular outcome, but I can promise that in attendance will be individuals who are thinking this all through and so this will be your chance to talk to the right people directly. I hope to see you all there! --- Ben -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwatts;figleaf.com] Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 12:57 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! Why the heck would they kill CF Studio? What good, logical reason could they possibly come up with as a reason to discontinue something that is so widely used/loved? Maybe it's not as widely used/loved as you think. I suspect that Macromedia has a better idea of how many people are using it than I do, since they keep count of the products they sell. However, even assuming it's the most popular editor since Tina Brown, there are still good reasons for MM to kill CF Studio. One good reason is that they have a bunch of different IDEs, and there are obvious benefits to building one really good IDE from all of them. This is the approach used by Microsoft with Visual Studio, which started out as a bunch of separate tools, each with its own quirks. The latest version of Visual Studio is very impressive; it did take MS a couple of versions to get where they are, and some of those versions weren't so hot. But in any case, CF Studio isn't dead yet. It's simply been renamed Homesite+. It'll probably be around for some time to come. The fact that it comes in a box labeled Dreamweaver MX doesn't change that. Its not that we cant use dreamweaver, its just that as coders, developers, and designers most of us, I would assume, don't want all the extra crap that DWMX has, and just want the IDE that CFStudio Provided. I don't know about that. There's a lot of extra crap in DWMX that's more interesting to me than it would be for the typical user of Dreamweaver 4 - interfaces for web services and components, properties dialogs, automatic management of file path attributes when you move a file, etc. There's a lot that DWMX is missing, and there are quite a few things that I don't like, but I think that one or two versions from now, it's going to be quite a nice editor. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Not directly related to CF-Programming, but I recently wrote a long configuration file for Jedit that I needed the ability to copy a column of text and paste it into a column of text like: ReplaceNoCase~~ReplaceNoCase(string,substring1,substring2,ALL); Where I wrote all the left column attributes (to the left of ~~), then copied them using Jedit's column select feature and pasted the text to the right of the first column - thus making my work that much faster. I know that's not a typical day in the life of a CF-Developer, but it sure is a handy feature sometimes. Joshua Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Mosh Teitelbaum [mailto:mosh.teitelbaum;evoch.com] Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 1:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! Novak wrote: As long as we're using petty reasons I'll add my 2 cents. I can't stand the fact that an advanced editor like DWMX doesn't allow me to mark a COLUMN of text. Cheaper editors like UltraEdit allow this and have done so for many, may versions. Mosh Teitelbaum wrote: Just out of curiosity... why would you need to be able to block out columnar text for CF coding? I can understand for languages like ASM or Fortran where columnar coding is syntactical or customary, but CF? Novak wrote: The real question is... why not? :-) Why should a standard freeware or shareware text editor have this feature but a product as high priced as DWMX not have it? Just a guess (based my own, personal experience); because the shareware/freeware versions are either intended to be all purpose, all language programming IDEs or because they will throw in every feature they can think of in the hopes that just one more person will find that feature interesting/useful and therefore buy the product. CF Studio and DWMX are (I would venture to guess) not intended for programming languages other than Cold Fusion and CF-related languages (HTML, XML, JS, CSS, etc.). It is specialized for its core set of languages. Many of the projects I work on involve editing more than just .cfm files. But even with .cfm files there are several times when I'm in code view and want to remove a column of text or insert a column of text. So, I'm not trying to be annoying here, I'm just generally curious; what possible reason could you have that, in a Cold Fusion application (which is generally indented, not columnar), you need to cut paste columns. Unless you're using CF to generate ASM code 8^). -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Ok, this will be my last comment on this thread since Michael asked that it be moved. I don't subscribe to community, so I'll say my last piece. HomeSite+ is NOT an upgrade to Studio nor is it a new version. Saying that we still get it cheaper than Studio ticks me off because it's actually more of a downgrade - it should be cheaper. UI customization features removed, Query Builder removed and CFMX syntax didn't ship with the product - you have to download and install that yourself. It's not an upgrade, it's a sidegrade to comply with a lost lawsuit. Ok, it IS a new version in that it was released after CF Studio 5 and that the features aren't identical, but it has fewer features - that's not something I typically pay money for. I'm not the purchasing person, so I don't know if we got a Subscription or if we bought a copy of Studio 5 so close to the release date that we got DWMX for free, but if we got a subscription I think we've been somewhat cheated. DWMX is by almost everyone's definition not a complete or totally useful product as even the DWMX proponents say they still use Studio half the time, and HomeSite is a downgrade. I don't see why people keep pushing HomeSite+ as an upgrade insisting that everyone should be happy because it's cheaper than Studio. It does less than Studio and has no new features. It has features new to HomeSite - but HomeSite was $99 standalone before DWMX. Thanks, Joshua Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwatts;figleaf.com] Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 3:13 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! Most developers I know don't use half the features of ColdFusion Studio (I can't remember the last time I click something in the tabs). So a move to DW is totally nonsensical. Most developers, at least the good ones, don't need or want designer tools. These seem to be pretty broad statements. I'd have a hard time saying that I know what most developers want or need. I do not feel like I'm in the minority by saying, skip the upgrade to DW and just get the tag updater for Studio 5. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, if you prefer CF Studio to Dreamweaver MX. You'd be a fool to do otherwise, just because MM wants you to buy their latest shiny new toy. On the other hand, you'd also be a fool if you just listened to everyone complain about how bad DWMX is, without evaluating it for yourself. So the question becomes: what point is there to upgrading? There is none. There are certainly some people who prefer Dreamweaver MX to CF Studio. They may not be especially vocal on this list, they may be a minority, but there are some out there. And perhaps, I'm being a bit critical, but I cannot figure out why developers are defending DWMX. Well, from my perspective, I can't figure out why developers here are attacking DWMX. It's not like MM is coming to your house and forcing you to buy it at gunpoint. No one's going to pry your copy of CF Studio 5 from your hard drive. What I've objected to, on this list, is the rabid the sky is falling reaction that many people seem to have about the very existence of Dreamweaver MX. To summarize, here's what people are saying: 1. Dreamweaver MX sucks. I'll leave this open to debate. I certainly have my own complaints about it, but frankly, the more I use it, the more comfortable I become with it, and I find myself using Studio less and less. There are a number of things that I think Dreamweaver MX does for me better than Studio. Is it perfect? No, far from it. Do I think that, two or three revisions down the road, it'll be a really good editor? Yes, I do - and I don't think the same is true for CF Studio, which really hasn't changed that significantly over its last two versions. 2. MM is abandoning CF Studio and Homesite. This doesn't seem to actually be the case, since there's a new version of CF Studio, relabeled Homesite+. MM might not be marketing it, but it's there. MM might abandon it in the future, but who knows what will happen in the future anyway? I think that the long-term goal for MM is to replace CF Studio with Dreamweaver MX, but they won't be able to do that successfully until they make it good enough for everyone to want to use, and at that point, well, everyone will want to use it. This reminds me very much of the history of Visual Studio, as I've commented here more than once. It started out being, well, not very good, and no one liked it. Now, everyone who uses it generally likes it a lot. Does that mean that those people should have embraced the first, not-so-good version? No, but it does indicate that we could do with a bit less pessimism about the future. 3. You can't buy Homesite+ without buying DWMX. Big deal. You pay the same price (or less) buying the two together as you paid last year for CF Studio by itself. 4. Dammit Jim, I'm a programmer, not a designer! Just because DWMX has functionality that's useful
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
OK, I'll accept that 8^). I usually use macros to accomplish the same thing. Unfortunately, Studio (I haven't tried DWMX, so I can't speak to it) doesn't provide support for macros. You know... I'm off to the wish list to submit that as a feature request. -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ -Original Message- From: Joshua Miller [mailto:josh;joshuasmiller.com] Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 10:59 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! Not directly related to CF-Programming, but I recently wrote a long configuration file for Jedit that I needed the ability to copy a column of text and paste it into a column of text like: ReplaceNoCase~~ReplaceNoCase(string,substring1,substring2,ALL); Where I wrote all the left column attributes (to the left of ~~), then copied them using Jedit's column select feature and pasted the text to the right of the first column - thus making my work that much faster. I know that's not a typical day in the life of a CF-Developer, but it sure is a handy feature sometimes. Joshua Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Mosh Teitelbaum [mailto:mosh.teitelbaum;evoch.com] Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 1:16 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! Novak wrote: As long as we're using petty reasons I'll add my 2 cents. I can't stand the fact that an advanced editor like DWMX doesn't allow me to mark a COLUMN of text. Cheaper editors like UltraEdit allow this and have done so for many, may versions. Mosh Teitelbaum wrote: Just out of curiosity... why would you need to be able to block out columnar text for CF coding? I can understand for languages like ASM or Fortran where columnar coding is syntactical or customary, but CF? Novak wrote: The real question is... why not? :-) Why should a standard freeware or shareware text editor have this feature but a product as high priced as DWMX not have it? Just a guess (based my own, personal experience); because the shareware/freeware versions are either intended to be all purpose, all language programming IDEs or because they will throw in every feature they can think of in the hopes that just one more person will find that feature interesting/useful and therefore buy the product. CF Studio and DWMX are (I would venture to guess) not intended for programming languages other than Cold Fusion and CF-related languages (HTML, XML, JS, CSS, etc.). It is specialized for its core set of languages. Many of the projects I work on involve editing more than just .cfm files. But even with .cfm files there are several times when I'm in code view and want to remove a column of text or insert a column of text. So, I'm not trying to be annoying here, I'm just generally curious; what possible reason could you have that, in a Cold Fusion application (which is generally indented, not columnar), you need to cut paste columns. Unless you're using CF to generate ASM code 8^). -- Mosh Teitelbaum evoch, LLC Tel: (301) 625-9191 Fax: (301) 933-3651 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW: http://www.evoch.com/ ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Last word on CF Studio, yes, Homesite's functionality is very much similar to that of CF Studio. Probably Macromedia's rationale for merging CF Studio and Homesite into one was to have a broader user community for this tool, however, I think a lot of us who love CF Studio really miss it, and I agree with another CFer that it would have been nice if MM had lent its ears, at this point, probably it would be easier to move forward with what's out there. Don Li (a long long time CFer since version .9?) http://www.hegelsoftware.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos More http://faith.yahoo.com ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Michael has actually said in an admin post that OT posts that deal with Macromedia's relationship to the community should be moved to the CF-Partners list, which is what that list was created for. http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?method=messagesthreadid=17866forumid=4 Judith Dinowitz Mistress of the House House of Fusion ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
VI!?!?!?!??!! ACK! GAG! SPIT! CHOKE! YACK! ;) | -Original Message- | From: Rob Rohan [mailto:rob;cardinalweb.com] | Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:05 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! | | | There is an open source project that is making a CF Studio | clone based on the JEdit program. I don't have the link, but | it was posted on the list a couple days ago. | | Why not just support that project? Send them money, or help | write it. MM stopped making Studio for a reason, and they | probably wont easily start the project back up. | | I like studio too, but with Dreamweaver in (((Studio mode))) | - I cant really see a huge difference. | | I code in VI anyway. | | | -Original Message- | From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:info;turnkey.to] | Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 9:43 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! | | | I'm not opposed to the idea, although at the moment I don't | have any cash to put toward it. If it gains steam I'd be | likely to offer my time. | | Ok everyone.. Time to put your $ where your mouth is. (er.. fingers | are) ... | | Do you REALLY want to keep Studio alive, beyond MM's | lifespan for it? | If so, then how about this? | | - We create a coalition of individuals/companies that | can raise some | funding. | - We propose a purchase/licensing of the product/code from MM. | - We create a company that will code/patch/maintain and sell it. | | If we do this as a massive joint-venture, we may find that there is | true support in the market space, and take the headaches away from | MM.. simply giving them a percentage -- making sure it is always | compatible with MM's product line. | | I would be willing to help establish the company base and provide | direction for the venture. | | Thoughts? | | | S. Isaac Dealey | Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer | www.turnkey.to 954-776-0046 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Again, I don't think that MM is purposely forcing us out of Studio and into DWMX. Look at this thread more closely, and you'll see that Homesite+ is really the same thing (for all intents and purposes) and Dreamweaver/Ultra-Dev certainly has some of the features you might want. | -Original Message- | From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:usr1;equinoxe.de] | Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:07 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! | | | I think prefer CF Studio over Dreamweaver, when it comes to writing | Coldfusion Codes. Let's start a movement :) | | Agree 100%, CF Studio was so much better than | dreamweaver(with d). dreamweaver is more for designers while | developers don't need all that load for programming. I would | love to see CF Studio continued. | | I hate to see Allaire gone to a company that doesn't | understand the needs of the users and push to us that bloated | loaded dreamweaver while we need something else. | | Marius Burz | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Have you tried DW/Ultra-Dev? | -Original Message- | From: Adrocknaphobia Jones [mailto:adrocknatalk;hotmail.com] | Dreamweaver to me lacks too many of the core functions I fell | in love with in Studio, like being able to run a Find/Replace | on a selection of text. It's the lack of these simple | functions that makes dreamweaver a pain. (Not too mention the | horrendous code it generates) Now don't get me wrong | Dreamweaver MX is leaps beyond it previous versions, but I | shouldn't have to wait for service packs to make the product | I paid for better. | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Not sure I understand your response here Dave. Can you elaborate? Even off-list would be fine. Just cuz I'm deciding if I want to get Homesite+, I'm interested. I have Studio 5.. So I'm not sure there's a reason to get Homesite+. | -Original Message- | From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwatts;figleaf.com] | Is there any reason I should try it if it is the same | as CFS5? | | Nope. Not unless you want to also try DWMX. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
HomeSite+ is NOT an upgrade to Studio nor is it a new version. Saying that we still get it cheaper than Studio ticks me off because it's actually more of a downgrade - it should be cheaper. UI customization features removed, Query Builder removed and CFMX syntax didn't ship with the product - you have to download and install that yourself. It's not an upgrade, it's a sidegrade to comply with a lost lawsuit. Ok, it IS a new version in that it was released after CF Studio 5 and that the features aren't identical, but it has fewer features - that's not something I typically pay money for. If you're happy with CF Studio, I wouldn't suggest upgrading to Homesite+ just because it's available. If you don't have CF Studio, and would like to have it, Homesite+ is, in essence, CF Studio 5. If you're hiring new developers, and want them to have something like CF Studio to use, you can buy the Dreamweaver MX/Homesite+ bundle and install Homesite+. That's all. The Query Builder in Homesite+ is identical to that in CF Studio 5, as far as I can tell. Even if you could still buy CF Studio, I suspect that MM would have to remove the UI customization features in that, to comply with the lawsuit. It seems like you feel that we all want you to use Homesite+ or Dreamweaver MX. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Nobody cares what you (or me, or anybody else) use for your editor. Personally, I'd like to see everyone using vi - color coding is for wusses! I was simply responding to the common complaints about Dreamweaver MX, by pointing out that they don't hold much water. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
WOW! Really?? That's amazing. So, let me make sure I understand (and I'm truly curious.. I'm not being a smart-a$$ or facetious)... Even with all the other features that DWMX has -- the ones that would make you use it ...all day long... -- you have decided not to do so because it doesn't automatically put in the height/width on an image that is inserted via drag-n-drop? | -Original Message- | From: Tony Weeg [mailto:tony;navtrak.net] | I would use DWMX all day long, I have a fast machine, thank | GOD, if they would put the functionality of dragging and | dropping an image from the | directory tree on the left to the page I am working on, on | the righti know I can do this, but DWMX doesn't add the | height / width parameters to the image tag. this is a huge | pain, and for that reason, I FLAME THE HELL out of DWMX | whenever I can. | | I know it seems like a petty reason, but its large enough for | me to not use it! ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Sure.. But don't all ventures of decent magnitude? Hey.. I'm not proposing a magic bullet. I'm just asking all of those who *truly believe* that studio is an endangered beast, and who *truly* don't want that to happen, to put their feelings to the test and decide if they would *really* like to take it upon themselves to continue on the market space. It's not likely to happen. However, it shakes those out who are just screaming to be screaming, separating them from those who really do think there is a reason to continue this process. Just my .02... | -Original Message- | From: Eric Dawson [mailto:cftalk;hotmail.com] | Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 1:25 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! | | | - coalition == cooperative licensing? (anyone with a checkbook) | - Who's going to manage this 'company' ?? == management is paid. | | model makes sense to me. | | $x to manage and develop product | n install base | licence = $x/n | | it could get more complicated. | | e | | From: Angel Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! | Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:34:28 -0400 | | It would never work. | | - Who decides who's on the 'coalition'? | - Won't even get into whether MM would or | wouldn't...thought about the legal fees involved in 'handing | over' source code? | - Who's going to manage this 'company' ?? | | -Gel | | | -Original Message- | From: Lee Fuller [mailto:leelistnew;primedna.net] | | Ok everyone.. Time to put your $ where your mouth is. (er.. fingers | are) ... | | Do you REALLY want to keep Studio alive, beyond MM's lifespan | for it? If so, then how about this? | | - We create a coalition of individuals/companies that | can raise some funding. | - We propose a purchase/licensing of the product/code from MM. | - We create a company that will code/patch/maintain and sell it. | | If we do this as a massive joint-venture, we may find that | there is true support in the market space, and take the | headaches away from MM.. simply giving them a percentage -- | making sure it is always compatible with MM's product line. | | I would be willing to help establish the company base and | provide direction for the venture. | | Thoughts? | | Lee | | | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
LOL | -Original Message- | From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:info;turnkey.to] | Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 2:41 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! | | | cfoutput#request.opinions.my[$.02]#/cfoutput | | HEY! Don't steal my numbering schema! | | ;) | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Hm... pondering the possibility of publishing a calendar of current and former Mistresses of the House of Fusion. ..ponder... ..ponder... ;) Judith Dinowitz Mistress of the House ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Sorry! (WAS: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!)
ACK! Sorry Michael, I didn't see the request to move until after I answered my previous emails. Consider it dead from my end. Sorry... | -Original Message- | From: Joshua Miller [mailto:josh;joshuasmiller.com] | Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 8:18 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! | | | Ok, this will be my last comment on this thread since Michael | asked that it be moved. I don't subscribe to community, so | I'll say my last piece. | | HomeSite+ is NOT an upgrade to Studio nor is it a new version. Saying | that we still get it cheaper than Studio ticks me off because | it's actually more of a downgrade - it should be cheaper. UI | customization features removed, Query Builder removed and | CFMX syntax didn't ship with the product - you have to | download and install that yourself. It's not an upgrade, it's | a sidegrade to comply with a lost lawsuit. Ok, it IS a new | version in that it was released after CF Studio 5 and that | the features aren't identical, but it has fewer features - | that's not something I typically pay money for. | | I'm not the purchasing person, so I don't know if we got a | Subscription or if we bought a copy of Studio 5 so close to | the release date that we got DWMX for free, but if we got a | subscription I think we've been somewhat cheated. DWMX is by | almost everyone's definition not a complete or totally useful | product as even the DWMX proponents say they still use Studio | half the time, and HomeSite is a downgrade. I don't see why | people keep pushing HomeSite+ as an upgrade insisting that | everyone should be happy because it's cheaper than Studio. It | does less than Studio and has no new features. It has | features new to HomeSite - but HomeSite was $99 standalone | before DWMX. | | Thanks, | | Joshua Miller | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | | -Original Message- | From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwatts;figleaf.com] | Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 3:13 AM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! | | | Most developers I know don't use half the features of ColdFusion | Studio (I can't remember the last time I click something in | the tabs). | So a move to DW is totally nonsensical. Most developers, at | least the | good ones, don't need or want designer tools. | | These seem to be pretty broad statements. I'd have a hard | time saying that I know what most developers want or need. | | I do not feel like I'm in the minority by saying, skip | the upgrade to DW and just get the tag updater for | Studio 5. | | There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, if you prefer CF | Studio to Dreamweaver MX. You'd be a fool to do otherwise, | just because MM wants you to buy their latest shiny new toy. | On the other hand, you'd also be a fool if you just listened | to everyone complain about how bad DWMX is, without | evaluating it for yourself. | | So the question becomes: what point is there to upgrading? There is | none. | | There are certainly some people who prefer Dreamweaver MX to | CF Studio. They may not be especially vocal on this list, | they may be a minority, but there are some out there. | | And perhaps, I'm being a bit critical, but I cannot figure out why | developers are defending DWMX. | | Well, from my perspective, I can't figure out why developers | here are attacking DWMX. It's not like MM is coming to your | house and forcing you to buy it at gunpoint. No one's going | to pry your copy of CF Studio 5 from your hard drive. What | I've objected to, on this list, is the rabid the sky is | falling reaction that many people seem to have about the | very existence of Dreamweaver MX. To summarize, here's what people are | saying: | | 1. Dreamweaver MX sucks. | | I'll leave this open to debate. I certainly have my own | complaints about it, but frankly, the more I use it, the more | comfortable I become with it, and I find myself using Studio | less and less. There are a number of things that I think | Dreamweaver MX does for me better than Studio. Is it perfect? | No, far from it. Do I think that, two or three revisions down | the road, it'll be a really good editor? Yes, I do - and I | don't think the same is true for CF Studio, which really | hasn't changed that significantly over its last two versions. | | 2. MM is abandoning CF Studio and Homesite. | | This doesn't seem to actually be the case, since there's a | new version of CF Studio, relabeled Homesite+. MM might not | be marketing it, but it's there. MM might abandon it in the | future, but who knows what will happen in the future anyway? | I think that the long-term goal for MM is to replace CF | Studio with Dreamweaver MX, but they won't be able to do that | successfully until they make it good enough for everyone to | want to use, and at that point, well, everyone will want to use it. | | This reminds me very much of the history
RE: DWMX Speed... (Was: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!)
We turned this off long ago, Dave. However the the speed is still quite slow. Just fyi... | -Original Message- | From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwatts;figleaf.com] | Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:20 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! | | | My biggest complaint is speed, I actually never dug deep into | it because it was too slow unless I closed out all the other | applications I am normally using when developing. I just | find it odd that in computers all with at least 512mb of ram | and all well over 600mhz in cpu, that I can't multitask | without major slow downs when using DWMX. | | You might find this configuration tip useful: | http://cfmxplus.blogspot.com/2002_10_13| _cfmxplus_archive.html#85569469 | | Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software | http://www.figleaf.com/ | voice: (202) 797-5496 | fax: (202) 797-5444 | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Homesite+/Studio: Calculating Image Dimensions (was Re: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!)
Homesite+ does not do this either, but as i understand it, it's a bug and not a 'feature' :) which segues me into...can anybody offer any insight as to whether or not a patch will be released any time in the near future? Like Tony, I really do find this annoying (altho it's not stopping me from using Homesite+ over the nightmare that is DWMX ;) charlie Lee Fuller writes: WOW! Really?? That's amazing. So, let me make sure I understand (and I'm truly curious.. I'm not being a smart-a$$ or facetious)... Even with all the other features that DWMX has -- the ones that would make you use it ...all day long... -- you have decided not to do so because it doesn't automatically put in the height/width on an image that is inserted via drag-n-drop? | -Original Message- | From: Tony Weeg [mailto:tony;navtrak.net] | I would use DWMX all day long, I have a fast machine, thank | GOD, if they would put the functionality of dragging and | dropping an image from the | directory tree on the left to the page I am working on, on | the righti know I can do this, but DWMX doesn't add the | height / width parameters to the image tag. this is a huge | pain, and for that reason, I FLAME THE HELL out of DWMX | whenever I can. | | I know it seems like a petty reason, but its large enough for | me to not use it! ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Nicely written Dave. Thing is though, the problem mostly is that Macromedia isn't really listening. They SHOULD care about we use as an editor. I'm glad you are a proponent of vi. But the majority of ppl in this discussion group seem to feel that cf studio is the best tool for building cf driven apps. Heck, I think half the people would be a heck of a lot quieter if they copied the source for Homesite+, called it CF Studio MX, and then charged more for it. Betcha most people wouldn't even notice. -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwatts;figleaf.com] Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:33 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! HomeSite+ is NOT an upgrade to Studio nor is it a new version. Saying that we still get it cheaper than Studio ticks me off because it's actually more of a downgrade - it should be cheaper. UI customization features removed, Query Builder removed and CFMX syntax didn't ship with the product - you have to download and install that yourself. It's not an upgrade, it's a sidegrade to comply with a lost lawsuit. Ok, it IS a new version in that it was released after CF Studio 5 and that the features aren't identical, but it has fewer features - that's not something I typically pay money for. If you're happy with CF Studio, I wouldn't suggest upgrading to Homesite+ just because it's available. If you don't have CF Studio, and would like to have it, Homesite+ is, in essence, CF Studio 5. If you're hiring new developers, and want them to have something like CF Studio to use, you can buy the Dreamweaver MX/Homesite+ bundle and install Homesite+. That's all. The Query Builder in Homesite+ is identical to that in CF Studio 5, as far as I can tell. Even if you could still buy CF Studio, I suspect that MM would have to remove the UI customization features in that, to comply with the lawsuit. It seems like you feel that we all want you to use Homesite+ or Dreamweaver MX. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Nobody cares what you (or me, or anybody else) use for your editor. Personally, I'd like to see everyone using vi - color coding is for wusses! I was simply responding to the common complaints about Dreamweaver MX, by pointing out that they don't hold much water. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ voice: (202) 797-5496 fax: (202) 797-5444 ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
Lighten up! (was RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!)
Personally, I'd like to see everyone using vi - color coding is for wusses! -Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software I love this quote! LOL! ~Todd -- Todd Rafferty ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - http://www.web-rat.com/ | Team Macromedia Volunteer for ColdFusion | http://www.macromedia.com/support/forums/team_macromedia/ | http://www.flashCFM.com/ - webRat (Moderator)| http://www.ultrashock.com/ - webRat (Back-end Moderator) | Speakeasy DSL - http://www.speakeasy.net/refer/18280| ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
People fear change. They'll get over it. It's an just an IDE. Perhaps because I've used so many IDEs/editors in my short career that I am immune. I like studio, but studio is not that cool - and it's features are not rare. It freezes, sometimes truncates files, and causes GPFs just like other products. I really can believe people are bummed out because the GUI doesn't provide an auto height and width screen. Get over it. Work through it. If you can't write CF code without certain features of an IDE then perhaps you need a book, not an editor. I miss Windows3.11's stability, should we start a petition to have Microsoft start redeveloping it? -Original Message- From: Lee Fuller [mailto:leelistnew;primedna.net] Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:40 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! Sure.. But don't all ventures of decent magnitude? Hey.. I'm not proposing a magic bullet. I'm just asking all of those who *truly believe* that studio is an endangered beast, and who *truly* don't want that to happen, to put their feelings to the test and decide if they would *really* like to take it upon themselves to continue on the market space. It's not likely to happen. However, it shakes those out who are just screaming to be screaming, separating them from those who really do think there is a reason to continue this process. Just my .02... | -Original Message- | From: Eric Dawson [mailto:cftalk;hotmail.com] | Sent: Thursday, October 17, 2002 1:25 PM | To: CF-Talk | Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! | | | - coalition == cooperative licensing? (anyone with a checkbook) | - Who's going to manage this 'company' ?? == management is paid. | | model makes sense to me. | | $x to manage and develop product | n install base | licence = $x/n | | it could get more complicated. | | e | | From: Angel Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Subject: RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio! | Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:34:28 -0400 | | It would never work. | | - Who decides who's on the 'coalition'? | - Won't even get into whether MM would or | wouldn't...thought about the legal fees involved in 'handing | over' source code? | - Who's going to manage this 'company' ?? | | -Gel | | | -Original Message- | From: Lee Fuller [mailto:leelistnew;primedna.net] | | Ok everyone.. Time to put your $ where your mouth is. (er.. fingers | are) ... | | Do you REALLY want to keep Studio alive, beyond MM's lifespan | for it? If so, then how about this? | | - We create a coalition of individuals/companies that | can raise some funding. | - We propose a purchase/licensing of the product/code from MM. | - We create a company that will code/patch/maintain and sell it. | | If we do this as a massive joint-venture, we may find that | there is true support in the market space, and take the | headaches away from MM.. simply giving them a percentage -- | making sure it is always compatible with MM's product line. | | I would be willing to help establish the company base and | provide direction for the venture. | | Thoughts? | | Lee | | | | ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
Now, in Dreamweaver, whenever you start it in Homesite style, there's a narrow arrow there on the line between the leftmost panels and the working editor window. If you click on that arrow, it 'hides' your left panels groups and leaves you with your Insert menu and your properties panels below. (Note, this is a lot like CF Studio's F-9 keystroke, in that it hides that left work space and retains the important top and bottom work areas). If you click on the arrow again, it expands it back. Okay, I'm *aware* of F4 to hide panels. This isn't what I'm looking for. F4 hides ALL the panels. I even scoured the customize keystroke thingy, and I just couldn't find out what collapsing that little line between the left and right was *called* to even assign it to anything. I know it's petty, but damn, it's *so* irritating. Any idea what the hell I'm talking about? Any way to assign a keystroke to simulating the effect of clicking on that line? Only if you can assign multiple commands (and I don;t know if this can be done) to a single key stroke. F4 turns off all panels, cmd+F2 (ctrl+F2) turns on the Insert Panel. Now if that can be done with one key-stroke that would be cool. This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm
Re: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
On Friday, Oct 18, 2002, at 11:59 US/Pacific, Rob Rohan wrote: I miss Windows3.11's stability, should we start a petition to have Microsoft start redeveloping it? Microsoft cancelled WfWG??? I'm bummed... I loved that OS... (c'mon, it's Friday!) SOAP is not so much a means of transmitting data but a mechanism for calling COM objects over the Web. -- not Microsoft (surprisingly!) ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm
Re: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
On Friday, Oct 18, 2002, at 10:12 US/Pacific, Costas Piliotis wrote: Thing is though, the problem mostly is that Macromedia isn't really listening. They SHOULD care about we use as an editor. Yes, they really are listening. And they really care. Believe me. If they weren't / didn't, then there wouldn't be half as much discussion going on internally about how deal with all the concerns expressed here! This stuff takes up a bunch of our time because - shock, horror - we actually want happy customers! Look, Vern deals with this list because it's his job. He's the Community Manager. I deal with this list because it's interesting (when it's on-topic!) and I'm passionate about CF as a customer: I use it day-in, day-out. Go read my personal website and see what I say about CF. Compare it to what I wrote about BroadVision when I worked with that all day, when I was actually doing work *for* BroadVision. I got into trouble for that but my website is my honest opinion and my employer has no say in what I post there (well, assuming I don't violate confidentiality etc). I also got into trouble for being uncomplimentary - in print and on my website - about the C++ Standards Committee while I was an active member (heck, I think I might even have been J16 Secretary at the time). There's other Macromedians here on this list too for whom this is not part of their job - they're here because they care about CF and the community. But the majority of ppl in this discussion group seem to feel that cf studio is the best tool for building cf driven apps. There's certainly a lot of vocal support for it :) Personally, I don't like CF Studio. I installed it and after a few days I uninstalled it and went back to UltraDev. Before I joined Macromedia, I tried HomeSite for writing BroadVision pages... didn't really like it much, although some folks on my team back then loved it. Personal preferences! I'm on a Mac now and I use a combination of DWMX, vi and jEdit. I look around at my team today and some are diehard CF Studio users, others are diehard DWMX users and most are agnostic (although I'm not the only vi fan here). Is DWMX perfect? No, of course not. I've filed some wishlist requests and I know my team has too. Is CFS perfect? No, it's not. Have any of my team filed wishlist requests for CFS? I don't know... very probably, knowing how fussy some of them are! Heck, I think half the people would be a heck of a lot quieter if they copied the source for Homesite+, called it CF Studio MX, and then charged more for it. Betcha most people wouldn't even notice. I really wish we had done this... Selling HomeSite+ as ColdFusion Studio MX at $499 alongside Dreamweaver MX at $399... Tell me it's Friday... Please! -- me ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
RE: Anybody want to start a petition for CF Studio!
I really wish we had done this... Selling HomeSite+ as ColdFusion Studio MX at $499 alongside Dreamweaver MX at $399... Yeah, but then we'd bitch and moan about it not including all the latest CFMX toys that DWMX offers rather than just wishing we could have the pre-Adobe-settlement CF Studio features. :) Ken ~| Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/index.cfm?forumid=4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=listsbody=lists/cf_talk FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting.
