Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
>>then move it there. +1 On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 2:49 AM, Paul Hastings wrote: > > On 2/1/2011 12:46 PM, denstar wrote: > > > > First off, this portion of the discussion probably belongs on > cf-community. > > then move it there. > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341786 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On 2/1/2011 12:46 PM, denstar wrote: > > First off, this portion of the discussion probably belongs on cf-community. then move it there. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341783 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
First off, this portion of the discussion probably belongs on cf-community. There is a whole 'nother portion that I, like Charlie, think should be discussed "technically" (or constructively). I applaud the folks doing so. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Paul Hastings wrote: > > On 1/31/2011 3:05 PM, denstar wrote: > ... >> My overall point was that surely there's *some* non-zero number of >> people trying/using coldfusion that wouldn't before, if not just >> because of the fact that it was a closed architecture. > > you have no proof of that. by your logic i can equally say that having "open" > architecture drove away as many as it attracted. a "way of thinking" is not > facts, that's another form of woo. All I have is educated guesses. Does it seem more logical to you that folks would abandon a good language because there was an open source variant? ... >> I'd rather have the coder. Even if CFML gives one coder the strength >> of ten. =) > > yeah i guess if you can grab a decent coder for the price of a cf license. but > that's not even remotely true. And that's not what I said. If I'm incorrect, at least let me be incorrect about what I was talking about. :) >> Having open source engine alternatives is more ammo for folks fighting >> for CFML use, hands down. > > "ammo" doesn't mean squat if it's not used to hit what you're supposed to be > aiming at. The public numbers I've seen look good. You keep telling me about how you're on the inside, and what I see in not the reality, but all I have is your word. Or woo, if you prefer. :) And it only seems to be focused more on Adobe than CFML. Are we talking about different things? >> How someone could see this as bad for the language, or us, as coders >> in said language, is beyond me. > > it's been explained to you over & over. you even acknowledged it & said you > didn't care (on twitter). Ugh. :) You said something that sounded like hearsay, and I said even it it were true, I felt that open source alternatives were good for the language. >> muckity-mucks gainfully employed. It's almost like a club or separate >> ecosystem. > > those other parts are but a cf developer there is just as important to the cf > community as a cf developer in a small shop. btw i don't see *you* declaring > some vow of poverty, so might as well stop with these kinds of comparisons > until > you do. Heh. I guess if I lied and called it intentional... ;) >> where the Real Money is made anyways. In The Enterprise. > > why do you think "enterprise" is some kind of swear word? we built > "enterprise" > level systems for municipalities here that helped increase their tax rolls (by > helping make everybody who was supposed to pay taxes, actually pay them) & > silly > little things like track school kid vaccinations. the tax justice we helped > with > allowed those cities to buy more "toys" like fire trucks & have more money to > "waste" on things like parks & youth programs. Not at all. Didn't you watch that South Park episode? Enterprise ain't evil. Hell, it's the name of a mighty fine starship. >> And to be clear, I'm not knocking Adobe. I'm not saying that they > > some of your previous remarks kind of sound like that. You can be pro X without implying anti Y. I can't control how you see what I type, but I've tried to type stuff that's pro-CFML, regardless of who's behind it, and emotion, belief, etc.. ... > sure but 99.99% of developers aren't going to go that deep or need to. and > from > what i've seen w/other OS projects some of the stuff produced from that 0.01% > shouldn't be touched w/a 10 foot pole. You think some of that can be bad, you should see my closed-source stuff. =) ... >> Why the venom? Even if that was the case, I'd still cheer my heart out. > > statements of facts are not in & of themselves venomous. why fall back to that > as an argument? I wasn't arguing, I was hinting that we don't *really* need to be angry in our conversation. >> Do you have so little faith in the language? > > more nonsense from you. try again. I worded it harshly, but I really don't understand the idea that good ideas need huge corporations behind them to be successful in the ways that matter. >> I don't. I know you say it's not true, but I haven't seen the >> evidence. Can you clue me in to anything solid? > > you acknowledged this on twitter & said you didn't care. remember? I remember saying that even if what you said you'd heard through the back channels was true, I would still be happy we ended up with an open source engine out of the deal. That does not make what you said you heard true and non-woo. Do you have any data? I asked on twitter too. ... >> Whatever you want to believe, I think it's a happier world with open >> source CFML engines. > > i would agree if they were bringing in new developers instead of munching on > the > cf community's liver. Do you have some kind of numbers to back up this claim that open source engin
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On 1/31/2011 3:05 PM, denstar wrote: > Yeah, but I worded it more to sound statistical-ish. Either way... you worded it to make it sound better and that actually doesn't make it any more factual. > My overall point was that surely there's *some* non-zero number of > people trying/using coldfusion that wouldn't before, if not just > because of the fact that it was a closed architecture. you have no proof of that. by your logic i can equally say that having "open" architecture drove away as many as it attracted. a "way of thinking" is not facts, that's another form of woo. > Why not? Surely money is a factor most places? If you gotta choose > between paying a coder, and paying a license... well I guess that if a cf license is going to force a company NOT to pay salaries then that company is in deep deep shit, even in the "3rd world". > I'd rather have the coder. Even if CFML gives one coder the strength > of ten. =) yeah i guess if you can grab a decent coder for the price of a cf license. but that's not even remotely true. > Having open source engine alternatives is more ammo for folks fighting > for CFML use, hands down. "ammo" doesn't mean squat if it's not used to hit what you're supposed to be aiming at. > How someone could see this as bad for the language, or us, as coders > in said language, is beyond me. it's been explained to you over & over. you even acknowledged it & said you didn't care (on twitter). > muckity-mucks gainfully employed. It's almost like a club or separate > ecosystem. those other parts are but a cf developer there is just as important to the cf community as a cf developer in a small shop. btw i don't see *you* declaring some vow of poverty, so might as well stop with these kinds of comparisons until you do. > where the Real Money is made anyways. In The Enterprise. why do you think "enterprise" is some kind of swear word? we built "enterprise" level systems for municipalities here that helped increase their tax rolls (by helping make everybody who was supposed to pay taxes, actually pay them) & silly little things like track school kid vaccinations. the tax justice we helped with allowed those cities to buy more "toys" like fire trucks & have more money to "waste" on things like parks & youth programs. > And to be clear, I'm not knocking Adobe. I'm not saying that they some of your previous remarks kind of sound like that. > Well, really, it's that, when I'm like, "why the hell is this doing > that?", I don't have to get crazy with a decompiler (not that I'd ever or you could just ask the cf team. > if you don't take advantage of it, is a wicked-cool thing to have. sure but 99.99% of developers aren't going to go that deep or need to. and from what i've seen w/other OS projects some of the stuff produced from that 0.01% shouldn't be touched w/a 10 foot pole. > Would you put money on that? obviously since i'm a cf developer, i have. > Or would you just live with the bugs in the version that came out in > 1999, as it were? 10 years later, saying "it's not dead, the last > version was just perfect"? what high impact bugs are in cf since 1999? > So they both closed up shop, eh? I hadn't heard, but I'm not privy to > insider information. they failed as businesses selling s/w. > Why the venom? Even if that was the case, I'd still cheer my heart out. statements of facts are not in & of themselves venomous. why fall back to that as an argument? > Do you have so little faith in the language? more nonsense from you. try again. > I don't. I know you say it's not true, but I haven't seen the > evidence. Can you clue me in to anything solid? you acknowledged this on twitter & said you didn't care. remember? > Maybe it also depends on the number of servers you're running? > Not-free is not-free, and at some point, enough not-free adds up to, > well, a number more than zero. i have no idea of your business but developing cf has never been very costly, geez we do it here it the "3rd world" just fine. hosting/deploying has some cost but so does railo/BD. servers cost money. bandwidth cost money. backups cost money. no such thing as "free". > Whatever you want to believe, I think it's a happier world with open > source CFML engines. i would agree if they were bringing in new developers instead of munching on the cf community's liver. > Have you even looked at the open source engines? They're pretty swell. yes i have indeed. so what? > having money, or caring but getting bought out. as i said you already know the reasons for me having issues w/the way railo is doing things. who's going to take over if adobe buys out railo? what happens to railo's customers in practice? they just might be the ones getting stuck w/stagnant s/w. > If you want to see it that way, you can. I don't, but who am I to say? a "fanboy" ;-) what's good for the goose is good for the gander. > l think it will all work out for the best in t
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Paul Hastings wrote: > > On 1/31/2011 11:02 AM, denstar wrote: >> It was based on a percent. So I guess the real number would be 170 >> out of a 1000. I think. 17%? I suck at math. > > you said 17 out of 100 people who replied to that survey. that's a useless > sample size. Yeah, but I worded it more to sound statistical-ish. Either way... freaking statistics, neh? Brian has a point about the survey, too. >> Still relatively useless, I reckon. It's all about perspective (or > > 1000 is a bit better but still tiny compared to the community. My overall point was that surely there's *some* non-zero number of people trying/using coldfusion that wouldn't before, if not just because of the fact that it was a closed architecture. >> If the number had been 0, perhaps. > > no, a sample of 1 is still not really worth mentioning besides the fact that > it > really can't be the only reason for the swap. Why not? Surely money is a factor most places? If you gotta choose between paying a coder, and paying a license... well I guess that sucks, and it should never be like that in Software Land, but hell, it happens. I'd rather have the coder. Even if CFML gives one coder the strength of ten. =) >> once again be the engine powering said crap. If I switch to PHP, >> there is, IMHO, markedly less of a chance for Adobe to ever be the >> engine powering my crap. > > perhaps but it's hard to say exactly why a shop would swap technologies. > sometimes its a stupid a reason as what some clown wrote in one of those > "tech" > rags like sys-con. It can be all kinds of stuff. I see hiring CF coders come up quite often, but it's easy as snot to train folks. People like the stuff they like though, be it just cuz they like it, or they read about it in a blog or magazine or some such. Having open source engine alternatives is more ammo for folks fighting for CFML use, hands down. How someone could see this as bad for the language, or us, as coders in said language, is beyond me. >> And let us not forget that a lot of pointy-headed-bosses *love* big > > yes that's true but those same "pointy-headed-bosses" keep a lot of developers > employed. Exactly. And a lot of corporate help line call center employees employed. And a lot of lawyers employed. And a lot of other big muckity-mucks gainfully employed. It's almost like a club or separate ecosystem. Super-huge-corp-X would probably naturally gravitate towards Adobe, as they'd be like, on the same team, sorta. I'd guess that it's there, where the Real Money is made anyways. In The Enterprise. I think there's plenty of room for both public and private. >> I still wouldn't mind seeing the figures. Anecdotal-ish-ly, it seems >> like the number of OSS projects has "exploded" over the last couple >> years. > > perhaps but it's just as likely that there is now a place to put & publicize > those OS projects (you know, the one that adobe sponsors). as i said my OS > stuff > has nothing to do w/either of those. and let me also point out that most of > ray-the-OS-engine's apps predate railo/BD going OS. i don't see any causal > relationship. Causation, correlation. Yeah. I can dig it. It personally effected me, but I'm just an individual, like everybody else. And to be clear, I'm not knocking Adobe. I'm not saying that they hate open source software or some such. I think they do a lot of stuff that's good. Way more than they get credit for in general, on the list. I like how if you search for CFML, the dev center is the second link on Google. No other language I looked at had that going for it. I like how they sponsor open source projects for incorporating AIR into things and whatnot. It would be cool if more of the sexy CFML apps were listed under "Third Party Whatsists", and the category wasn't called "Third Party Stuff" or whatever. Sorta a showcase of sorts. Neither of the open source engines are pushing things like Mango Blog either, but hell, I could probably send either one a page to put up if I cared that much. That's what's awesome about open source. Well, really, it's that, when I'm like, "why the hell is this doing that?", I don't have to get crazy with a decompiler (not that I'd ever decompile anything, this is just an example). Or, when I'm all like, "I want this to do that" /I can make it happen/! Self-reliance, even if you don't take advantage of it, is a wicked-cool thing to have. But so are stamp collections, to some people, so, take it with a grain of salt. >> Deadly seriously. =) > > you claim that prior to BD/railo failing as commercial projects there was no > stability in CF? geez that's a stretch. The kind of stability I'm talking of? Obviously not, unless you think whoever owned it at the time would have open sourced it, so it would live on. Would you put money on that? Or would you just live with the bugs in the version that came out in 1999, as it were? 10 years later, saying "i
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:02 PM, denstar wrote: > > > adobe, like any product producer, has to maintain it's base customers. > railo's > > not producing much (if any) new cf customers but is instead cannibalizing > the > > I guess it's all relative. And maybe that 17% is a lie. Nobody likes > free good stuff. ;)p > The problem there is that the question is a check box, multiple-selection question, not a single value. So people could have (and most likely did I suspect) select ALL of the languages they use. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341707 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On 1/31/2011 11:02 AM, denstar wrote: > It was based on a percent. So I guess the real number would be 170 > out of a 1000. I think. 17%? I suck at math. you said 17 out of 100 people who replied to that survey. that's a useless sample size. > Still relatively useless, I reckon. It's all about perspective (or 1000 is a bit better but still tiny compared to the community. > If the number had been 0, perhaps. no, a sample of 1 is still not really worth mentioning besides the fact that it really can't be the only reason for the swap. > once again be the engine powering said crap. If I switch to PHP, > there is, IMHO, markedly less of a chance for Adobe to ever be the > engine powering my crap. perhaps but it's hard to say exactly why a shop would swap technologies. sometimes its a stupid a reason as what some clown wrote in one of those "tech" rags like sys-con. > And let us not forget that a lot of pointy-headed-bosses *love* big yes that's true but those same "pointy-headed-bosses" keep a lot of developers employed. > I still wouldn't mind seeing the figures. Anecdotal-ish-ly, it seems > like the number of OSS projects has "exploded" over the last couple > years. perhaps but it's just as likely that there is now a place to put & publicize those OS projects (you know, the one that adobe sponsors). as i said my OS stuff has nothing to do w/either of those. and let me also point out that most of ray-the-OS-engine's apps predate railo/BD going OS. i don't see any causal relationship. > Deadly seriously. =) you claim that prior to BD/railo failing as commercial projects there was no stability in CF? geez that's a stretch. > Do most companies donate the source code to their users when they go > out of business, in your experience? no idea, though i guess that's exactly what BD & railo did. > I guess it's all relative. And maybe that 17% is a lie. Nobody likes > free good stuff. ;)p i have a big bottle of wine laced w/rat poison which i will let you have free. it's certainly good wine except for the rat poison (though the rat poison is also pretty good rat poison). i guess you want that too? > It's not about Adobe and Railo having a love-in and making babies (& > FWIW, it's us devs bringing the drama). that's not true & you know that's not true. > My point was, that not only would Adobe's base have shrunk, but the > "CFML" base would have shrunk as well, had I "left". you're leaving might not have had anything to do w/cf being a commercial product (i don't know your business but i can't really see the cost of cf being much of a factor in developing s/w, even here in the "3rd world" it's not all that much money relative to everything else involved). it could be that your shop wanted to adhere to an OS only principle which has nothing to do w/economics. > If you only care about Adobe making money, then there is no real > difference between the two. i care about adobe being around to support & improve cf. they need profits to do that. > However, if you care about your fellow CFML coders putting food on the > table, so to speak, then there is a pretty big difference between the > two. again i don't see that. dev s/w is free. deploying can be pretty cheap. if you're doing enterprise level of development then the cost of cf is pretty small. > Open Source Software is a powerful, driving force in today's software nobody's doubting that but the cf market is different than PHP. they aren't eating their own intestines. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341706 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Paul Hastings wrote: > > On 1/29/2011 1:26 PM, denstar wrote: > >> Not /exactly/ infinitesimal, but it ain't no flood of newbs, neither. > > that sample size is more or less useless to base the rest of your arguments > on. It was based on a percent. So I guess the real number would be 170 out of a 1000. I think. 17%? I suck at math. Still relatively useless, I reckon. It's all about perspective (or context?), even in math. Crazy as that sounds (I told ya I sucked at math). >> I don't know how much that has to do with the entrance of the open >> source engines as viable alternatives, but I feel it's factor. It was >> for me, anecdotal-y. > > technically i'd think that would actually be a "flight of fancy" seeing it's > based on a sample of one & taken as the sole factor in your shop staying w/cf. If the number had been 0, perhaps. I, however, am living proof of at least one, and unless the other folks were lying, there *are* more than I. The number of supported applications is a factor here too. I don't know if I'm an edge case, but I have lots of CFML powered crap. So long as it stays CFML, there's /at least the potential/ that ACF will once again be the engine powering said crap. If I switch to PHP, there is, IMHO, markedly less of a chance for Adobe to ever be the engine powering my crap. And let us not forget that a lot of pointy-headed-bosses *love* big corps like Adobe. Makes 'em feel warm fuzzies (even if the paid support is generally a lot more expensive and a lot less helpful). >> I attribute some of that to CFers realizing the *awesome* power of >> open source, but again, I think the engine alternatives have gone a >> long way towards helping as well. > > pretty much all my i18n stuff has been OS long before either BD or railo, has > nothing whatsoever to do w/either. so in your anecdote based way of thinking, > you are proven wrong ;-) OMG! Proof! ;-) I still wouldn't mind seeing the figures. Anecdotal-ish-ly, it seems like the number of OSS projects has "exploded" over the last couple years. >> CFML devs are no longer beholden to some commercial entity's >> well-being, which adds a *huge* bit of stability to the language that >> was just plain *not there* prior. > > seriously? Deadly seriously. =) Do most companies donate the source code to their users when they go out of business, in your experience? >> I don't know about "top". Unless the "target" is the existing >> "static" community, which would seem a rather backwards plan, IMHO. > > adobe, like any product producer, has to maintain it's base customers. railo's > not producing much (if any) new cf customers but is instead cannibalizing the I guess it's all relative. And maybe that 17% is a lie. Nobody likes free good stuff. ;)p > existing market. it doesn't follow that adobe will be blowing sweet sweet > kisses > at railo. It's not about Adobe and Railo having a love-in and making babies (& FWIW, it's us devs bringing the drama). My point was, that not only would Adobe's base have shrunk, but the "CFML" base would have shrunk as well, had I "left". If you only care about Adobe making money, then there is no real difference between the two. However, if you care about your fellow CFML coders putting food on the table, so to speak, then there is a pretty big difference between the two. >> It doesn't need to be contentious. Friendly competition is where it's at, >> yo. > > but you know that "friendly competition" is not true, even if you say don't > care > what railo's ultimate plan is. it doesn't seem "friendly" to me or will it > seem > very friendly to their existing customers if they do indeed succeed with > their plan. > I guess I'm just coming from a different perspective. I think that friendly competition is "true", and can be one of the bestest forces for furtherance around. Open Source Software is a powerful, driving force in today's software world. That is no conspiracy, that's just math (although the boring way math is portrayed may itself be a conspiracy- but I digress). I am amazingly super happy that there are open source alternatives for CFML these days. I think it's tits for us developers, and tits for the language in general (a pair of tits, if you will). Perhaps I don't have my priorities in order. I would not be surprised one whit. I'm happy though, so, eh- screw it. To each their own! :Den -- I have resolved on an enterprise that has no precedent and will have no imitator. I want to set before my fellow human beings a man in every way true to nature; and that man will be myself. Jean-Jacques Rouss ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341705 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/sub
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
Russ, people who are "nasty and vindictive to anyone that uses or supports the competitors products and attack them at every opportunity" is really strong language. If you're referring to anyone on the "pro-Adobe" side of the argument, who are they? If you don't want to name names, some links to list posts or blog entries/comments would be fine. If they're really doing this "at every opportunity", I assume it should be easy to generate a partial list of these repeat offenders? I'm asking because I really have no idea who you think these people are. On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Russ Michaels wrote: > > No competitors plans are going to seem friendly towards each other, however > there is no reason to go out of your way to be nasty and vindictive to > anyone that uses or supports the competitors products and attack them at > every opportunity, which is all some people seem to be interested in doing. > Perhaps some people need to "get a life". > > > > ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341703 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
No competitors plans are going to seem friendly towards each other, however there is no reason to go out of your way to be nasty and vindictive to anyone that uses or supports the competitors products and attack them at every opportunity, which is all some people seem to be interested in doing. Perhaps some people need to "get a life". ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341702 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On 1/29/2011 1:26 PM, denstar wrote: > Not /exactly/ infinitesimal, but it ain't no flood of newbs, neither. that sample size is more or less useless to base the rest of your arguments on. > I don't know how much that has to do with the entrance of the open > source engines as viable alternatives, but I feel it's factor. It was > for me, anecdotal-y. technically i'd think that would actually be a "flight of fancy" seeing it's based on a sample of one & taken as the sole factor in your shop staying w/cf. > I attribute some of that to CFers realizing the *awesome* power of > open source, but again, I think the engine alternatives have gone a > long way towards helping as well. pretty much all my i18n stuff has been OS long before either BD or railo, has nothing whatsoever to do w/either. so in your anecdote based way of thinking, you are proven wrong ;-) > CFML devs are no longer beholden to some commercial entity's > well-being, which adds a *huge* bit of stability to the language that > was just plain *not there* prior. seriously? > I don't know about "top". Unless the "target" is the existing > "static" community, which would seem a rather backwards plan, IMHO. adobe, like any product producer, has to maintain it's base customers. railo's not producing much (if any) new cf customers but is instead cannibalizing the existing market. it doesn't follow that adobe will be blowing sweet sweet kisses at railo. > It doesn't need to be contentious. Friendly competition is where it's at, yo. but you know that "friendly competition" is not true, even if you say don't care what railo's ultimate plan is. it doesn't seem "friendly" to me or will it seem very friendly to their existing customers if they do indeed succeed with their plan. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341699 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
