Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-20 Thread Ken Ferguson
I'm glad your experience has been different than the rest of ours, but 
as a word of warning: DO NOT HOLD YOUR BREATH FOR BETTER COMMENTING OF 
CODE. This was one of my very first complaints on the software the first 
time I used it something like 6 or 7 (??) years ago. I think it's fairly 
safe to say that if it's an issue 6 years later, it's going to be an 
issue for the foreseeable future.

--Ferg


George Jaros wrote:

>Josh,
>
>I've read all the bad reviews of AbleCommerce and have to suggest you check 
>out the AbleCommerce forms for some positive reviews: 
>http://forums.topsites.com
>
>Personally I've only worked with AbleComemrce 3.x (breifly) and 5.5 CFMX - 
>extensively.  The latest version is a HUGE improvement over previous versions. 
> While it is true that much of the back-end code is contained in Java objects, 
>I've found that this has actually helped the development process.  The store 
>is designed in ColdFusion mainly for display, design, and some functionality.  
>Most of the database integration is done through the Java objects.
>
>Regarding scalability: I've developed about 2 dozen (maybe a few more) sites 
>using AbleCommerce 5.5 and have been very impressed with the ability to 
>customize AbleCommerce to work with just about any situation I've come across. 
> My company (Web 2 Market) has integrated AbleCommerce with a variety of third 
>party applications (Mail Order Manager, AccPac, Great Plains, etc.) and also 
>created a variety of plugins and enhancements, including a Call Center 
>Application, Reviews Module, and more (See http://www.web2market.com for mor 
>information).
>
>Regarding stability: AC 5.5 CFMX has greatly improved in stability, 
>reliability, and speed.  With the latest release we've had very few stability 
>issues related to AbleCommerce.  We currently have AbleCommerce sites running 
>on both dedicated servers and shared servers.  One of our shared servers has 
>about 18 live sites running on it without problems.
>
>Regarding coding: Admittedly, this is an area that could be improved a bit.  
>The coding in the source pages is not very clean and not very well commented, 
>however, I've had no great difficulty in figuring out what portions of the 
>pages perform what actions.  Hopefully future releases will have improvements 
>in the documentation and commenting of the code (keep in mind that the public 
>release of AC 5.5 CFMX is only a few months old).
>
>I can't speak for other applications like CFWebstore (their site has an 
>impressive feature list and Mary Jo's posts here have been informative and 
>helpful), but I am pretty sure that you won't be disappointed with the latest 
>version of AbleCommerce.  It is definitely a more mature application with the 
>release of 5.5.  And the support and help in the AbleCommerce Community Forums 
>is outstanding.
>
>For more information about AbleCommerce and Web 2 Market (an official AC 
>Hosting and Development Partner) see the following sites:
>
>http://www.web2market.com
>http://forums.topsites.com
>http://www.ablecommerce.com
>
>  
>
>>Hello All,
>>
>>I'm wondering if anyone has experience working with the AbleCommerce 
>>shopping cart, specifically the CFMX version (they also offer JSP/ASP 
>>versions).  Any rants, raves, installation/usage issues?
>>
>>I would rather use CFWebstore, but my boss saw that AbleCommerce syncs up 
>>with a module (StoneEdge Order Manager) that he likes on our current 
>>shopping cart.  We have been battling back and forth over using CF on our 
>>next store (I want to, he doesn't), so AbleCommerce may be a way for us to 
>>meet in the middle.  Any info is appreciated, as I had never heard of 
>>AbleCommerce before, let alone worked with it.
>>
>>-- Josh Nathanson
>>
>>
>
>

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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-19 Thread George Jaros
Josh,

I've read all the bad reviews of AbleCommerce and have to suggest you check out 
the AbleCommerce forms for some positive reviews: http://forums.topsites.com

Personally I've only worked with AbleComemrce 3.x (breifly) and 5.5 CFMX - 
extensively.  The latest version is a HUGE improvement over previous versions.  
While it is true that much of the back-end code is contained in Java objects, 
I've found that this has actually helped the development process.  The store is 
designed in ColdFusion mainly for display, design, and some functionality.  
Most of the database integration is done through the Java objects.

Regarding scalability: I've developed about 2 dozen (maybe a few more) sites 
using AbleCommerce 5.5 and have been very impressed with the ability to 
customize AbleCommerce to work with just about any situation I've come across.  
My company (Web 2 Market) has integrated AbleCommerce with a variety of third 
party applications (Mail Order Manager, AccPac, Great Plains, etc.) and also 
created a variety of plugins and enhancements, including a Call Center 
Application, Reviews Module, and more (See http://www.web2market.com for mor 
information).

Regarding stability: AC 5.5 CFMX has greatly improved in stability, 
reliability, and speed.  With the latest release we've had very few stability 
issues related to AbleCommerce.  We currently have AbleCommerce sites running 
on both dedicated servers and shared servers.  One of our shared servers has 
about 18 live sites running on it without problems.

Regarding coding: Admittedly, this is an area that could be improved a bit.  
The coding in the source pages is not very clean and not very well commented, 
however, I've had no great difficulty in figuring out what portions of the 
pages perform what actions.  Hopefully future releases will have improvements 
in the documentation and commenting of the code (keep in mind that the public 
release of AC 5.5 CFMX is only a few months old).

I can't speak for other applications like CFWebstore (their site has an 
impressive feature list and Mary Jo's posts here have been informative and 
helpful), but I am pretty sure that you won't be disappointed with the latest 
version of AbleCommerce.  It is definitely a more mature application with the 
release of 5.5.  And the support and help in the AbleCommerce Community Forums 
is outstanding.

For more information about AbleCommerce and Web 2 Market (an official AC 
Hosting and Development Partner) see the following sites:

http://www.web2market.com
http://forums.topsites.com
http://www.ablecommerce.com

>Hello All,
>
>I'm wondering if anyone has experience working with the AbleCommerce 
>shopping cart, specifically the CFMX version (they also offer JSP/ASP 
>versions).  Any rants, raves, installation/usage issues?
>
>I would rather use CFWebstore, but my boss saw that AbleCommerce syncs up 
>with a module (StoneEdge Order Manager) that he likes on our current 
>shopping cart.  We have been battling back and forth over using CF on our 
>next store (I want to, he doesn't), so AbleCommerce may be a way for us to 
>meet in the middle.  Any info is appreciated, as I had never heard of 
>AbleCommerce before, let alone worked with it.
>
>-- Josh Nathanson

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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-17 Thread John McKown
AbleCommerce itself was what forced us to create our OWN ecommerce 
engine. The AbleCommerce code was messy and terrible.  We had to keep 
fixing it.  Then we were encouraged to purchase a support contract JUST 
TO REPORT BUGS. That was the last straw.  We had some key features we 
needed that were promised "in the next release" and when the next 
release came, the features were not there.   Then they (Able) began to 
close up the source code.   So they lost their last good saving grace in 
our opinion when they did that.  But our decision had been made at that 
point to leave Able.

We were about to lose a huge client because of the lack of current 
shipping features in Able.  This was about three years ago, and now we 
have a 100% fusebox commerce engine that uses UPS gateways, integrates 
with outside shipping systems (like MOM), many payment gateways, etc. 
and we are constantly developing it.   This is not meant to be an 
advertisement, just a cautionary tale.  Building a complete commerce 
engine is a huge endeavor.  You would do better to use something else 
and make it work with an outside shipment manager than to get stuck with 
Able.   Then there are all the usability/skinning/etc. issues that we 
could talk about for hours.

-- 
John McKown
President/CEO
Delaware.Net, Inc.
Toll-Free: 888-432-7965
ICQ: 1812513

We host Fusebox.org, and we build all of our applications in ColdFusion 
and Fusebox including our Store-Logic Ecommerce engine and our 
Team-Logic CRM platform.


Josh Nathanson wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone has experience working with the AbleCommerce 
> shopping cart, specifically the CFMX version (they also offer JSP/ASP 
> versions).  Any rants, raves, installation/usage issues?
> 
> I would rather use CFWebstore, but my boss saw that AbleCommerce syncs up 
> with a module (StoneEdge Order Manager) that he likes on our current 
> shopping cart.  We have been battling back and forth over using CF on our 
> next store (I want to, he doesn't), so AbleCommerce may be a way for us to 
> meet in the middle.  Any info is appreciated, as I had never heard of 
> AbleCommerce before, let alone worked with it.
> 
> -- Josh Nathanson
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-17 Thread Adam Haskell
+1 and +1 to the other posts as well. Albecom was complete spaghetti code
prior to the mx version. It was the result of 4 versional upgrades by a team
and no rewrites. Modifying it is a mess and its a complete pain to rip out
chunks and replace them, simple projects got extended do to these things.
Then like I said the MX version is pretty much the classic Coldfusion for UI
java for the rest. I you know Java and are comfortable with OOP its not a
horrid mess to upgrade/modify, its a lot better than it used to be. If you
want a REAL cf shoppingcart though AbleCom MX is not the right product. I
believe AbleCom offers a developer license or something to evaluate it and
what not, evaluate it and have a look see, its not much CF...

Adam

On 1/16/06, Mark A Kruger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I've used CFMX Able commerce... Here are a couple of notes..keep in mind
> this knowledge is about 20 months old :)
>
>
> 1)  I'ts pointedly NOT a coldfusion application. By that I mean it takes
> no
> advantage of anything specifically coldfusion'ish.  The ap functions as a
> Java servlet with calls to and from the CF page. All the database
> interaction is controlled by the servlet and you have access to none of
> it.
> In fact, if you want to do something simple like add a field to a table
> you
> will find yourself working around this issue. Each request is passed to
> the
> servlet with the results returned from the servlet.
>
>
> 2) Get used to array holder syntax - ACB for CFMX doesn't use query
> objects
> very much. Instead, the servlet loads Java Object 1 (a query pulled from a
> database) Into Java object 2 (an array holder build for this query).  Then
> it loops through it with traditional Java counter syntax.
>
> 3) Because you are not involved in the database code you can't fine tune
> it.
> a store of ours had about 12 top categories and one of those had 40 or
> more
> subcategories with a total of 11000 items for sale.  The system called the
> entire data set (all 11000 items) when accessing every page from the top
> down. Then it looped through filtering out items that weren't in the
> category - no caching, no "smarter" queries pulling limited subsets of
> data just a big honkin query pulling the entire category with each
> query. Needless to say we did not find this scalable.
>
> 4) Making changes to the display is problematic.  Since all the "data
> stuff"
> is wrapped up in the servelt you would think there was a logical
> separation - but the ACB engine uses custom templates that are controlled
> by
> the database and written to file. That means if you create a custom
> template
> you better figure out how to store it in the database or admin users who
> do
> something simple - like add a new link - will overwrite all your hard
> work.
>
> 5) It's also overpriced for the feature set and the usuablility.
>
> In my view ACB hired a Java programmer to "pretend" to create a CFMX ap.
> There are no CFCs, no caching,  no cf queries, no query driven outputs, no
> custom tags nothing really "CF" about it. It could just as easily be
> JSP
> and it would suffer from no further usability issues. CF is just a
> "wrapper
> class" around the servlet.
>
> If you are going to use it "out of the box" as is - go for it.  If you
> plan
> to make any customizations (if I can borrow a line from Monty Python
> here...) run away.
>
> You would spend less to just pay Mary Jo to add the feature you want.
>
> -Mark
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mary Jo Sminkey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 1:23 PM
> To: CF-Talk
> Subject: Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?
>
>
> >I would rather use CFWebstore, but my boss saw that AbleCommerce syncs up
> >with a module (StoneEdge Order Manager) that he likes on our current
> >shopping cart.
>
> Well, I can't speak much about AbleCommerce (being a competitor, it
> wouldn't
> have much value anyway). You are certainly welcome to ask on my CFWebstore
> email list as I do have a number of users that have previously used AC and
> would probably be willing to give an opinion and compare the 2 products as
> well. But one thing you might also want to consider is if it would be
> possible to integrate this product with CFWebstore as well. Generally it's
> just a matter of writing an XML export of the order details, not a real
> difficult thing to do, and something I could probably assist with if need
> be. The difference in cost for the two products alone might cover it.
>
> I usually tell people not to get too hung up on a single feature when
>

Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Brandon Harper
On 1/16/06, Mary Jo Sminkey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >I notice that Tumi.com (they're an up and coming luxury luggage maker) is
> >using some kind of Fusebox app, anyone know exactly what store they're
> >using, or is it built internally?
>
> Hhm, that's certainly not a typical Fusebox application, and not any software 
> that I've run across. Looks home-grown to me. You could always email them and 
> see if they'd tell you for sure.

Judging by both the industry and what the URL's look like, most likely
that site is done at ebags.com.  Actually I would say with a high
degree of certainty that it's an ebags site after doing a dig of both
URL's:

;; ANSWER SECTION:
www.tumi.com.   3600IN  A   66.179.113.186

;; ANSWER SECTION:
www.ebags.com.  3600IN  A   66.179.113.187

FWIW,

- Brandon

--
http://devnulled.com

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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Mary Jo Sminkey
>I'm sure Mary Jo can add a special seal or something that says "enterprise
>version" and sell it for 3 grand - right Mary Jo?

Yup, I could certainly do that as well! 

 
Mary Jo Sminkey 
Author of CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce software 
http://www.cfwebstore.com


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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Mary Jo Sminkey
>He's not entirely unreasonable so I think if he sees one or two quotes from 
>this list, he would realize that it would be a bad move to go with AC. 

I assume this is in response to my comment about not pressuring a boss into a 
decision. Actually I was referring more to his dislike for ColdFusion, than the 
specific products in question. I guess it does depend on how much you really 
want to stick with ColdFusion. Hopefully you have a good feel for how much to 
push and when to let well enough alone. ;-) 

>As far as CFWebstore:  I will need to approach with caution.  I've already 
>mentioned it to him, and his main beef is that he doesn't see any "big 
>stores" using CFWebstore -- also because it's so inexpensive, to him that 
>means it must not be good. 

LOL, well yes, I definitely market more towards small-medium sites. The sample 
stores list on my website (under Demo) has most of my bigger, more popular 
sites, but they aren't exactly household names. Techronics for instance has 
tons of products and lots of traffic, but it's not Buy.com. Home Bistro is a 
fairly well-known mail order gourmet site (I knew of them before they even used 
my software) but they aren't quite as well known as some other places like 
Harry & David. Bridge Kitchenware is a very well known store with professional 
cooks that is running my software as well, but they haven't gotten their site 
updated and redesigned yet, so I don't have it listed right now. And sites like 
Clean Run and DogGoneGood are only well known to those of us that are into dog 
training! 

And yes, I've been told more than once that my software could be priced higher. 
But frankly, I think most ecommerce software is over-priced, and I like being 
able to offer something for the smaller stores and merchants that can't afford 
what some of the "name-brand" software are charging. I might not be able to 
offer things like 24/7 phone support as a result, but most of my customers 
don't complain...they don't mind waiting a little longer to get someone that 
knows what they are talking about versus some off-shore tech support that's 
useless anyway. ;-) 

>I notice that Tumi.com (they're an up and coming luxury luggage maker) is 
>using some kind of Fusebox app, anyone know exactly what store they're 
>using, or is it built internally?

Hhm, that's certainly not a typical Fusebox application, and not any software 
that I've run across. Looks home-grown to me. You could always email them and 
see if they'd tell you for sure. 


 
Mary Jo Sminkey 
Author of CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce software 
http://www.cfwebstore.com


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RE: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Mark A Kruger
Josh,

I'm sure Mary Jo can add a special seal or something that says "enterprise
version" and sell it for 3 grand - right Mary Jo?

-Mark

-Original Message-
From: Josh Nathanson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 7:19 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?


Mary Jo, thanks for the heads up.  I haven't said anything to my boss about
the negative feedback on AC yet.  I don't think he was hell bent on AC, so I
may say something like "the feedback was less than positive" and see where
it goes.  If he presses for it more, I'll drop a quote or two from the list.
He's not entirely unreasonable so I think if he sees one or two quotes from
this list, he would realize that it would be a bad move to go with AC.  But
I won't hit him with the "testimonials" right away.

As far as CFWebstore:  I will need to approach with caution.  I've already
mentioned it to him, and his main beef is that he doesn't see any "big
stores" using CFWebstore -- also because it's so inexpensive, to him that
means it must not be good.  Maybe if you could let me know some of your
bigger users I could pass it along.  However if it's not Walmart or Nike I
don't think he'll be impressed. ;-)

I notice that Tumi.com (they're an up and coming luxury luggage maker) is
using some kind of Fusebox app, anyone know exactly what store they're
using, or is it built internally?

-- Josh




- Original Message -
From: "Mary Jo Sminkey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?


> Well, it's been interesting to hear everyone's comments. It was my
> experience with AC many years ago for my first ecommerce client that was
> the incentive to initially write CFWebstore. ;-)
>
> Josh, not that I don't want the sale, but I personally would be careful
> about pushing a boss into making a decision he really doesn't agree with.
> Very often, they can really make it tough on you when things don't go 100%
> the way they want them to (and as they seldom do!)
>
> Feel free to contact me though if you want more information on what would
> be involved in doing an import for Stone Edge...or information on
> alternative products that already work with CFWebstore.
>
> 
> Mary Jo Sminkey
> Author of CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce software
> http://www.cfwebstore.com
>
>



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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Josh Nathanson
Mary Jo, thanks for the heads up.  I haven't said anything to my boss about 
the negative feedback on AC yet.  I don't think he was hell bent on AC, so I 
may say something like "the feedback was less than positive" and see where 
it goes.  If he presses for it more, I'll drop a quote or two from the list.
He's not entirely unreasonable so I think if he sees one or two quotes from 
this list, he would realize that it would be a bad move to go with AC.  But 
I won't hit him with the "testimonials" right away.

As far as CFWebstore:  I will need to approach with caution.  I've already 
mentioned it to him, and his main beef is that he doesn't see any "big 
stores" using CFWebstore -- also because it's so inexpensive, to him that 
means it must not be good.  Maybe if you could let me know some of your 
bigger users I could pass it along.  However if it's not Walmart or Nike I 
don't think he'll be impressed. ;-)

I notice that Tumi.com (they're an up and coming luxury luggage maker) is 
using some kind of Fusebox app, anyone know exactly what store they're 
using, or is it built internally?

-- Josh




- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Jo Sminkey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?


> Well, it's been interesting to hear everyone's comments. It was my 
> experience with AC many years ago for my first ecommerce client that was 
> the incentive to initially write CFWebstore. ;-)
>
> Josh, not that I don't want the sale, but I personally would be careful 
> about pushing a boss into making a decision he really doesn't agree with. 
> Very often, they can really make it tough on you when things don't go 100% 
> the way they want them to (and as they seldom do!)
>
> Feel free to contact me though if you want more information on what would 
> be involved in doing an import for Stone Edge...or information on 
> alternative products that already work with CFWebstore.
>
>  
> Mary Jo Sminkey
> Author of CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce software
> http://www.cfwebstore.com
>
> 

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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Mary Jo Sminkey
Well, it's been interesting to hear everyone's comments. It was my experience 
with AC many years ago for my first ecommerce client that was the incentive to 
initially write CFWebstore. ;-) 

Josh, not that I don't want the sale, but I personally would be careful about 
pushing a boss into making a decision he really doesn't agree with. Very often, 
they can really make it tough on you when things don't go 100% the way they 
want them to (and as they seldom do!) 

Feel free to contact me though if you want more information on what would be 
involved in doing an import for Stone Edge...or information on alternative 
products that already work with CFWebstore. 

 
Mary Jo Sminkey 
Author of CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce software 
http://www.cfwebstore.com

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RE: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Snake
I had a look at ablecommerce once, and there is no way you will be able to
set this on shared hosting unles sthe host already support it as you need to
modify some of CF's XML files to setup servlet mappings. 

-Original Message-
From: Mary Jo Sminkey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 16 January 2006 19:23
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

>I would rather use CFWebstore, but my boss saw that AbleCommerce syncs 
>up with a module (StoneEdge Order Manager) that he likes on our current 
>shopping cart.

Well, I can't speak much about AbleCommerce (being a competitor, it wouldn't
have much value anyway). You are certainly welcome to ask on my CFWebstore
email list as I do have a number of users that have previously used AC and
would probably be willing to give an opinion and compare the 2 products as
well. But one thing you might also want to consider is if it would be
possible to integrate this product with CFWebstore as well. Generally it's
just a matter of writing an XML export of the order details, not a real
difficult thing to do, and something I could probably assist with if need
be. The difference in cost for the two products alone might cover it. 

I usually tell people not to get too hung up on a single feature when
evaluating shopping carts. So often you are going to have tweak and change
any number of things, that unless something is a really major feature that
will take a long time to code, you're better off looking for something
that's going to have the best set of basic features that you need, and is
easy to understand and modify so it won't be much hassle to get it to
exactly what you want. 



Mary Jo Sminkey  
Author of CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce software  
http://www.cfwebstore.com 







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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Aaron Rouse
I was working for a place that got it 6+ years ago.  We actually never got
it to get up and running consistently.  I can not even remember the issues
with it now days, but I never will forget my hatred of the product.


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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Randy Messer
>Glad to see someone had a similar experience with it as I did.
>
>On 1/16/06, Ken Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>

I can echo you're experience, mine has been agonizing over the course of 
5+years using Able. Interesting hearing from others. 

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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Ken Ferguson
I wouldn't doubt it for a single second! You also learned with the 
versions I was working in that you could load a 2500 line file in CF 
Studio and only slow it down a little bit!!! I cringe to think back to 
working on that MESS.

--Ferg

Mark A Kruger wrote:

>Ken,
>
>I daresay CF Webstore already rivals the ACB feature set for less than 10%
>of the price.
>
>-mark
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:09 PM
>To: CF-Talk
>Subject: Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?
>
>
>And this is likely still an improvement from when it was a real CF app,
>at which point I had to work with it for just about the most painful
>year of my life. It was complete spaghetti-code trash. It was so bad
>that several years later I'm still honoring my promise to take every
>opportunity I get to steer people clear of it. In my experience, it's
>rare that software THAT POOR ever makes a real turn-around to become a
>high-quality application.
>
>Granted, my experience with AC is about 5 years and several very major
>versions old, but it left a lasting impression... Oh, and add to it all
>the fact that the prices are completely out of this world for what they
>offer. Even back when I was working with it, the bang to buck ratio is
>so completely out of whack.
>--Ferg
>
>Mark A Kruger wrote:
>  
>
>  
>


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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Aaron Rouse
Glad to see someone had a similar experience with it as I did.

On 1/16/06, Ken Ferguson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> And this is likely still an improvement from when it was a real CF app,
> at which point I had to work with it for just about the most painful
> year of my life. It was complete spaghetti-code trash. It was so bad
> that several years later I'm still honoring my promise to take every
> opportunity I get to steer people clear of it. In my experience, it's
> rare that software THAT POOR ever makes a real turn-around to become a
> high-quality application.
>
> Granted, my experience with AC is about 5 years and several very major
> versions old, but it left a lasting impression... Oh, and add to it all
> the fact that the prices are completely out of this world for what they
> offer. Even back when I was working with it, the bang to buck ratio is
> so completely out of whack.
> --Ferg
>
> Mark A Kruger wrote:
>
> >I've used CFMX Able commerce... Here are a couple of notes..keep in mind
> >this knowledge is about 20 months old :)
> >
> >
> >1)  I'ts pointedly NOT a coldfusion application. By that I mean it takes
> no
> >advantage of anything specifically coldfusion'ish.  The ap functions as a
> >Java servlet with calls to and from the CF page. All the database
> >interaction is controlled by the servlet and you have access to none of
> it.
> >In fact, if you want to do something simple like add a field to a table
> you
> >will find yourself working around this issue. Each request is passed to
> the
> >servlet with the results returned from the servlet.
> >
> >
> >2) Get used to array holder syntax - ACB for CFMX doesn't use query
> objects
> >very much. Instead, the servlet loads Java Object 1 (a query pulled from
> a
> >database) Into Java object 2 (an array holder build for this
> query).  Then
> >it loops through it with traditional Java counter syntax.
> >
> >3) Because you are not involved in the database code you can't fine tune
> it.
> >a store of ours had about 12 top categories and one of those had 40 or
> more
> >subcategories with a total of 11000 items for sale.  The system called
> the
> >entire data set (all 11000 items) when accessing every page from the top
> >down. Then it looped through filtering out items that weren't in the
> >category - no caching, no "smarter" queries pulling limited subsets of
> >data just a big honkin query pulling the entire category with each
> >query. Needless to say we did not find this scalable.
> >
> >4) Making changes to the display is problematic.  Since all the "data
> stuff"
> >is wrapped up in the servelt you would think there was a logical
> >separation - but the ACB engine uses custom templates that are controlled
> by
> >the database and written to file. That means if you create a custom
> template
> >you better figure out how to store it in the database or admin users who
> do
> >something simple - like add a new link - will overwrite all your hard
> work.
> >
> >5) It's also overpriced for the feature set and the usuablility.
> >
> >In my view ACB hired a Java programmer to "pretend" to create a CFMX ap.
> >There are no CFCs, no caching,  no cf queries, no query driven outputs,
> no
> >custom tags nothing really "CF" about it. It could just as easily be
> JSP
> >and it would suffer from no further usability issues. CF is just a
> "wrapper
> >class" around the servlet.
> >
> >If you are going to use it "out of the box" as is - go for it.  If you
> plan
> >to make any customizations (if I can borrow a line from Monty Python
> >here...) run away.
> >
> >You would spend less to just pay Mary Jo to add the feature you want.
> >
> >-Mark
> >
>
>
> 

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RE: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Mark A Kruger
Ken,

I daresay CF Webstore already rivals the ACB feature set for less than 10%
of the price.

-mark


-Original Message-
From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:09 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?


And this is likely still an improvement from when it was a real CF app,
at which point I had to work with it for just about the most painful
year of my life. It was complete spaghetti-code trash. It was so bad
that several years later I'm still honoring my promise to take every
opportunity I get to steer people clear of it. In my experience, it's
rare that software THAT POOR ever makes a real turn-around to become a
high-quality application.

Granted, my experience with AC is about 5 years and several very major
versions old, but it left a lasting impression... Oh, and add to it all
the fact that the prices are completely out of this world for what they
offer. Even back when I was working with it, the bang to buck ratio is
so completely out of whack.
--Ferg

Mark A Kruger wrote:

>I've used CFMX Able commerce... Here are a couple of notes..keep in mind
>this knowledge is about 20 months old :)
>
>
>1)  I'ts pointedly NOT a coldfusion application. By that I mean it takes no
>advantage of anything specifically coldfusion'ish.  The ap functions as a
>Java servlet with calls to and from the CF page. All the database
>interaction is controlled by the servlet and you have access to none of it.
>In fact, if you want to do something simple like add a field to a table you
>will find yourself working around this issue. Each request is passed to the
>servlet with the results returned from the servlet.
>
>
>2) Get used to array holder syntax - ACB for CFMX doesn't use query objects
>very much. Instead, the servlet loads Java Object 1 (a query pulled from a
>database) Into Java object 2 (an array holder build for this query).  Then
>it loops through it with traditional Java counter syntax.
>
>3) Because you are not involved in the database code you can't fine tune
it.
>a store of ours had about 12 top categories and one of those had 40 or more
>subcategories with a total of 11000 items for sale.  The system called the
>entire data set (all 11000 items) when accessing every page from the top
>down. Then it looped through filtering out items that weren't in the
>category - no caching, no "smarter" queries pulling limited subsets of
>data just a big honkin query pulling the entire category with each
>query. Needless to say we did not find this scalable.
>
>4) Making changes to the display is problematic.  Since all the "data
stuff"
>is wrapped up in the servelt you would think there was a logical
>separation - but the ACB engine uses custom templates that are controlled
by
>the database and written to file. That means if you create a custom
template
>you better figure out how to store it in the database or admin users who do
>something simple - like add a new link - will overwrite all your hard work.
>
>5) It's also overpriced for the feature set and the usuablility.
>
>In my view ACB hired a Java programmer to "pretend" to create a CFMX ap.
>There are no CFCs, no caching,  no cf queries, no query driven outputs, no
>custom tags nothing really "CF" about it. It could just as easily be
JSP
>and it would suffer from no further usability issues. CF is just a "wrapper
>class" around the servlet.
>
>If you are going to use it "out of the box" as is - go for it.  If you plan
>to make any customizations (if I can borrow a line from Monty Python
>here...) run away.
>
>You would spend less to just pay Mary Jo to add the feature you want.
>
>-Mark
>




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RE: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Mark A Kruger
hehe but you did learn all about cfinclude and cf mappings now didn't
ya!

-Original Message-
From: Ken Ferguson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 3:09 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?


And this is likely still an improvement from when it was a real CF app,
at which point I had to work with it for just about the most painful
year of my life. It was complete spaghetti-code trash. It was so bad
that several years later I'm still honoring my promise to take every
opportunity I get to steer people clear of it. In my experience, it's
rare that software THAT POOR ever makes a real turn-around to become a
high-quality application.

Granted, my experience with AC is about 5 years and several very major
versions old, but it left a lasting impression... Oh, and add to it all
the fact that the prices are completely out of this world for what they
offer. Even back when I was working with it, the bang to buck ratio is
so completely out of whack.
--Ferg

Mark A Kruger wrote:

>I've used CFMX Able commerce... Here are a couple of notes..keep in mind
>this knowledge is about 20 months old :)
>
>
>1)  I'ts pointedly NOT a coldfusion application. By that I mean it takes no
>advantage of anything specifically coldfusion'ish.  The ap functions as a
>Java servlet with calls to and from the CF page. All the database
>interaction is controlled by the servlet and you have access to none of it.
>In fact, if you want to do something simple like add a field to a table you
>will find yourself working around this issue. Each request is passed to the
>servlet with the results returned from the servlet.
>
>
>2) Get used to array holder syntax - ACB for CFMX doesn't use query objects
>very much. Instead, the servlet loads Java Object 1 (a query pulled from a
>database) Into Java object 2 (an array holder build for this query).  Then
>it loops through it with traditional Java counter syntax.
>
>3) Because you are not involved in the database code you can't fine tune
it.
>a store of ours had about 12 top categories and one of those had 40 or more
>subcategories with a total of 11000 items for sale.  The system called the
>entire data set (all 11000 items) when accessing every page from the top
>down. Then it looped through filtering out items that weren't in the
>category - no caching, no "smarter" queries pulling limited subsets of
>data just a big honkin query pulling the entire category with each
>query. Needless to say we did not find this scalable.
>
>4) Making changes to the display is problematic.  Since all the "data
stuff"
>is wrapped up in the servelt you would think there was a logical
>separation - but the ACB engine uses custom templates that are controlled
by
>the database and written to file. That means if you create a custom
template
>you better figure out how to store it in the database or admin users who do
>something simple - like add a new link - will overwrite all your hard work.
>
>5) It's also overpriced for the feature set and the usuablility.
>
>In my view ACB hired a Java programmer to "pretend" to create a CFMX ap.
>There are no CFCs, no caching,  no cf queries, no query driven outputs, no
>custom tags nothing really "CF" about it. It could just as easily be
JSP
>and it would suffer from no further usability issues. CF is just a "wrapper
>class" around the servlet.
>
>If you are going to use it "out of the box" as is - go for it.  If you plan
>to make any customizations (if I can borrow a line from Monty Python
>here...) run away.
>
>You would spend less to just pay Mary Jo to add the feature you want.
>
>-Mark
>




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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Ken Ferguson
And this is likely still an improvement from when it was a real CF app, 
at which point I had to work with it for just about the most painful 
year of my life. It was complete spaghetti-code trash. It was so bad 
that several years later I'm still honoring my promise to take every 
opportunity I get to steer people clear of it. In my experience, it's 
rare that software THAT POOR ever makes a real turn-around to become a 
high-quality application.

Granted, my experience with AC is about 5 years and several very major 
versions old, but it left a lasting impression... Oh, and add to it all 
the fact that the prices are completely out of this world for what they 
offer. Even back when I was working with it, the bang to buck ratio is 
so completely out of whack.
--Ferg

Mark A Kruger wrote:

>I've used CFMX Able commerce... Here are a couple of notes..keep in mind
>this knowledge is about 20 months old :)
>
>
>1)  I'ts pointedly NOT a coldfusion application. By that I mean it takes no
>advantage of anything specifically coldfusion'ish.  The ap functions as a
>Java servlet with calls to and from the CF page. All the database
>interaction is controlled by the servlet and you have access to none of it.
>In fact, if you want to do something simple like add a field to a table you
>will find yourself working around this issue. Each request is passed to the
>servlet with the results returned from the servlet.
>
>
>2) Get used to array holder syntax - ACB for CFMX doesn't use query objects
>very much. Instead, the servlet loads Java Object 1 (a query pulled from a
>database) Into Java object 2 (an array holder build for this query).  Then
>it loops through it with traditional Java counter syntax.
>
>3) Because you are not involved in the database code you can't fine tune it.
>a store of ours had about 12 top categories and one of those had 40 or more
>subcategories with a total of 11000 items for sale.  The system called the
>entire data set (all 11000 items) when accessing every page from the top
>down. Then it looped through filtering out items that weren't in the
>category - no caching, no "smarter" queries pulling limited subsets of
>data just a big honkin query pulling the entire category with each
>query. Needless to say we did not find this scalable.
>
>4) Making changes to the display is problematic.  Since all the "data stuff"
>is wrapped up in the servelt you would think there was a logical
>separation - but the ACB engine uses custom templates that are controlled by
>the database and written to file. That means if you create a custom template
>you better figure out how to store it in the database or admin users who do
>something simple - like add a new link - will overwrite all your hard work.
>
>5) It's also overpriced for the feature set and the usuablility.
>
>In my view ACB hired a Java programmer to "pretend" to create a CFMX ap.
>There are no CFCs, no caching,  no cf queries, no query driven outputs, no
>custom tags nothing really "CF" about it. It could just as easily be JSP
>and it would suffer from no further usability issues. CF is just a "wrapper
>class" around the servlet.
>
>If you are going to use it "out of the box" as is - go for it.  If you plan
>to make any customizations (if I can borrow a line from Monty Python
>here...) run away.
>
>You would spend less to just pay Mary Jo to add the feature you want.
>
>-Mark
>


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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Josh Nathanson
Mary Jo, thanks for that.  If it were up to me I would choose CFWebstore in 
a heartbeat.  Unfortunately it's my boss who makes the final decision, and 
he isn't easy to convince.  I'll keep you posted.

-- Josh Nathanson






One thing that makes a big difference to him is the
- Original Message - 
From: "Mary Jo Sminkey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "CF-Talk" 
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?


> >I would rather use CFWebstore, but my boss saw that AbleCommerce syncs up
>>with a module (StoneEdge Order Manager) that he likes on our current
>>shopping cart.
>
> Well, I can't speak much about AbleCommerce (being a competitor, it 
> wouldn't have much value anyway). You are certainly welcome to ask on my 
> CFWebstore email list as I do have a number of users that have previously 
> used AC and would probably be willing to give an opinion and compare the 2 
> products as well. But one thing you might also want to consider is if it 
> would be possible to integrate this product with CFWebstore as well. 
> Generally it's just a matter of writing an XML export of the order 
> details, not a real difficult thing to do, and something I could probably 
> assist with if need be. The difference in cost for the two products alone 
> might cover it.
>
> I usually tell people not to get too hung up on a single feature when 
> evaluating shopping carts. So often you are going to have tweak and change 
> any number of things, that unless something is a really major feature that 
> will take a long time to code, you're better off looking for something 
> that's going to have the best set of basic features that you need, and is 
> easy to understand and modify so it won't be much hassle to get it to 
> exactly what you want.
>
>
> 
> Mary Jo Sminkey
> Author of CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce software
> http://www.cfwebstore.com
>
>
>
> 



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RE: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Mark A Kruger
I've used CFMX Able commerce... Here are a couple of notes..keep in mind
this knowledge is about 20 months old :)


1)  I'ts pointedly NOT a coldfusion application. By that I mean it takes no
advantage of anything specifically coldfusion'ish.  The ap functions as a
Java servlet with calls to and from the CF page. All the database
interaction is controlled by the servlet and you have access to none of it.
In fact, if you want to do something simple like add a field to a table you
will find yourself working around this issue. Each request is passed to the
servlet with the results returned from the servlet.


2) Get used to array holder syntax - ACB for CFMX doesn't use query objects
very much. Instead, the servlet loads Java Object 1 (a query pulled from a
database) Into Java object 2 (an array holder build for this query).  Then
it loops through it with traditional Java counter syntax.

3) Because you are not involved in the database code you can't fine tune it.
a store of ours had about 12 top categories and one of those had 40 or more
subcategories with a total of 11000 items for sale.  The system called the
entire data set (all 11000 items) when accessing every page from the top
down. Then it looped through filtering out items that weren't in the
category - no caching, no "smarter" queries pulling limited subsets of
data just a big honkin query pulling the entire category with each
query. Needless to say we did not find this scalable.

4) Making changes to the display is problematic.  Since all the "data stuff"
is wrapped up in the servelt you would think there was a logical
separation - but the ACB engine uses custom templates that are controlled by
the database and written to file. That means if you create a custom template
you better figure out how to store it in the database or admin users who do
something simple - like add a new link - will overwrite all your hard work.

5) It's also overpriced for the feature set and the usuablility.

In my view ACB hired a Java programmer to "pretend" to create a CFMX ap.
There are no CFCs, no caching,  no cf queries, no query driven outputs, no
custom tags nothing really "CF" about it. It could just as easily be JSP
and it would suffer from no further usability issues. CF is just a "wrapper
class" around the servlet.

If you are going to use it "out of the box" as is - go for it.  If you plan
to make any customizations (if I can borrow a line from Monty Python
here...) run away.

You would spend less to just pay Mary Jo to add the feature you want.

-Mark


-Original Message-
From: Mary Jo Sminkey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2006 1:23 PM
To: CF-Talk
Subject: Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?


>I would rather use CFWebstore, but my boss saw that AbleCommerce syncs up
>with a module (StoneEdge Order Manager) that he likes on our current
>shopping cart.

Well, I can't speak much about AbleCommerce (being a competitor, it wouldn't
have much value anyway). You are certainly welcome to ask on my CFWebstore
email list as I do have a number of users that have previously used AC and
would probably be willing to give an opinion and compare the 2 products as
well. But one thing you might also want to consider is if it would be
possible to integrate this product with CFWebstore as well. Generally it's
just a matter of writing an XML export of the order details, not a real
difficult thing to do, and something I could probably assist with if need
be. The difference in cost for the two products alone might cover it.

I usually tell people not to get too hung up on a single feature when
evaluating shopping carts. So often you are going to have tweak and change
any number of things, that unless something is a really major feature that
will take a long time to code, you're better off looking for something
that's going to have the best set of basic features that you need, and is
easy to understand and modify so it won't be much hassle to get it to
exactly what you want.



Mary Jo Sminkey
Author of CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce software
http://www.cfwebstore.com







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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Mary Jo Sminkey
>I would rather use CFWebstore, but my boss saw that AbleCommerce syncs up 
>with a module (StoneEdge Order Manager) that he likes on our current 
>shopping cart. 

Well, I can't speak much about AbleCommerce (being a competitor, it wouldn't 
have much value anyway). You are certainly welcome to ask on my CFWebstore 
email list as I do have a number of users that have previously used AC and 
would probably be willing to give an opinion and compare the 2 products as 
well. But one thing you might also want to consider is if it would be possible 
to integrate this product with CFWebstore as well. Generally it's just a matter 
of writing an XML export of the order details, not a real difficult thing to 
do, and something I could probably assist with if need be. The difference in 
cost for the two products alone might cover it. 

I usually tell people not to get too hung up on a single feature when 
evaluating shopping carts. So often you are going to have tweak and change any 
number of things, that unless something is a really major feature that will 
take a long time to code, you're better off looking for something that's going 
to have the best set of basic features that you need, and is easy to understand 
and modify so it won't be much hassle to get it to exactly what you want. 



Mary Jo Sminkey  
Author of CFWebstore, ColdFusion E-commerce software  
http://www.cfwebstore.com 





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Re: Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Adam Haskell
Older versions we really messy. I was fairly suprised by Ablecom MX. Unless
they have changed it in the last year or so though you better know java.
Ablecom MX that I was testing out was very much the CF of UI business logic
in classes. Very nice but if you want to mode it the core functionality is
(or was) in java classes.

Adam

On 1/16/06, Josh Nathanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> I'm wondering if anyone has experience working with the AbleCommerce
> shopping cart, specifically the CFMX version (they also offer JSP/ASP
> versions).  Any rants, raves, installation/usage issues?
>
> I would rather use CFWebstore, but my boss saw that AbleCommerce syncs up
> with a module (StoneEdge Order Manager) that he likes on our current
> shopping cart.  We have been battling back and forth over using CF on our
> next store (I want to, he doesn't), so AbleCommerce may be a way for us to
> meet in the middle.  Any info is appreciated, as I had never heard of
> AbleCommerce before, let alone worked with it.
>
> -- Josh Nathanson
>
>
>
>
> 

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Anyone use AbleCommerce, CFMX version?

2006-01-16 Thread Josh Nathanson
Hello All,

I'm wondering if anyone has experience working with the AbleCommerce 
shopping cart, specifically the CFMX version (they also offer JSP/ASP 
versions).  Any rants, raves, installation/usage issues?

I would rather use CFWebstore, but my boss saw that AbleCommerce syncs up 
with a module (StoneEdge Order Manager) that he likes on our current 
shopping cart.  We have been battling back and forth over using CF on our 
next store (I want to, he doesn't), so AbleCommerce may be a way for us to 
meet in the middle.  Any info is appreciated, as I had never heard of 
AbleCommerce before, let alone worked with it.

-- Josh Nathanson




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