Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
Why would you try to stifle people's conversation? That's not like you. I'm still getting stuff (read: thought exercises) from all the content on this thread. If you personally don't like this thread, maybe take responsibility for your own situation and filter it out; rather than trying to force your will on other people. -- Adam Steve 'Cutter' Blades cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com wrote: Good Gawd! Some of you are like a dog with a bone. The facts: 1) Something Happened 2) It Got Publicized 3) There Are A Lot of Ticked Off People We can debate who is at fault until we are blue in the face. The fact of the matter is, all of it is in the past. We can not change the past. Adobe (the CF product team) is aware of everyone's concerns, and are evaluating strategy *for the future*. You have all said your piece here, in the very public openness of the web, where Google will pick it up and run, and allow the naysayers to say see, even their own community... Review the install of the now public beta. Write down a list of faults/suggestions. Go file it in the bug report tool. Let everyone know that it's there for vote and comment. Everyone then go vote and comment. If you do it right, and you give it full court press, maybe we can get at least partial response before they take the server to full product. I promise you that it is a much more valuable use of your time, and your valid, constructive criticism might actually get met with an official response and/or action. Now, you are welcome to flame me here, but *I* promise *you*, you will just be wasting keystrokes. Spend 'em in the bug tracker. Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Community Professional Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://cutterscrossing.com Co-Author Learning Ext JS 3.2 Packt Publishing 2010 https://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js-3-2-for-building-dynamic-desktop-style-user-interfaces/book The best way to predict the future is to help create it ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358238 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
Thanx...I was doing a fine job staying out of this, then you had to drag me in... :P On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.orgwrote: OMG You mean ColdFusion 11 is public :P I'm hearing Stroz in the back of my head... 10.5 10.5 have a great weekend! -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358239 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
Good Gawd! Some of you are like a dog with a bone. The facts: 1) Something Happened 2) It Got Publicized 3) There Are A Lot of Ticked Off People We can debate who is at fault until we are blue in the face. The fact of the matter is, all of it is in the past. We can not change the past. Adobe (the CF product team) is aware of everyone's concerns, and are evaluating strategy *for the future*. You have all said your piece here, in the very public openness of the web, where Google will pick it up and run, and allow the naysayers to say see, even their own community... Review the install of the now public beta. Write down a list of faults/suggestions. Go file it in the bug report tool. Let everyone know that it's there for vote and comment. Everyone then go vote and comment. If you do it right, and you give it full court press, maybe we can get at least partial response before they take the server to full product. I promise you that it is a much more valuable use of your time, and your valid, constructive criticism might actually get met with an official response and/or action. Now, you are welcome to flame me here, but *I* promise *you*, you will just be wasting keystrokes. Spend 'em in the bug tracker. Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Community Professional Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://cutterscrossing.com Co-Author Learning Ext JS 3.2 Packt Publishing 2010 https://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js-3-2-for-building-dynamic-desktop-style-user-interfaces/book The best way to predict the future is to help create it ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358185 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
You have all said your piece here, in the very public openness of the web, where Google will pick it up and run, and allow the naysayers to say see, even their own community ^^ +1 ^^ cfhorse beaten=true dead=true / cfabort ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358186 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
I think you will find many folks already did that years ago, myself included. On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com wrote: Good Gawd! Some of you are like a dog with a bone. The facts: 1) Something Happened 2) It Got Publicized 3) There Are A Lot of Ticked Off People We can debate who is at fault until we are blue in the face. The fact of the matter is, all of it is in the past. We can not change the past. Adobe (the CF product team) is aware of everyone's concerns, and are evaluating strategy *for the future*. You have all said your piece here, in the very public openness of the web, where Google will pick it up and run, and allow the naysayers to say see, even their own community... Review the install of the now public beta. Write down a list of faults/suggestions. Go file it in the bug report tool. Let everyone know that it's there for vote and comment. Everyone then go vote and comment. If you do it right, and you give it full court press, maybe we can get at least partial response before they take the server to full product. I promise you that it is a much more valuable use of your time, and your valid, constructive criticism might actually get met with an official response and/or action. Now, you are welcome to flame me here, but *I* promise *you*, you will just be wasting keystrokes. Spend 'em in the bug tracker. Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Community Professional Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://cutterscrossing.com Co-Author Learning Ext JS 3.2 Packt Publishing 2010 https://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js-3-2-for-building-dynamic-desktop-style-user-interfaces/book The best way to predict the future is to help create it ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358189 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
OMG You mean ColdFusion 11 is public :P Regards, Andrew Scott WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/ Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411 On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 4:38 AM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com wrote: Good Gawd! Some of you are like a dog with a bone. The facts: 1) Something Happened 2) It Got Publicized 3) There Are A Lot of Ticked Off People We can debate who is at fault until we are blue in the face. The fact of the matter is, all of it is in the past. We can not change the past. Adobe (the CF product team) is aware of everyone's concerns, and are evaluating strategy *for the future*. You have all said your piece here, in the very public openness of the web, where Google will pick it up and run, and allow the naysayers to say see, even their own community... Review the install of the now public beta. Write down a list of faults/suggestions. Go file it in the bug report tool. Let everyone know that it's there for vote and comment. Everyone then go vote and comment. If you do it right, and you give it full court press, maybe we can get at least partial response before they take the server to full product. I promise you that it is a much more valuable use of your time, and your valid, constructive criticism might actually get met with an official response and/or action. Now, you are welcome to flame me here, but *I* promise *you*, you will just be wasting keystrokes. Spend 'em in the bug tracker. Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Community Professional Adobe Certified Expert Advanced Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Developer http://cutterscrossing.com Co-Author Learning Ext JS 3.2 Packt Publishing 2010 https://www.packtpub.com/learning-ext-js-3-2-for-building-dynamic-desktop-style-user-interfaces/book The best way to predict the future is to help create it ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358200 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
OMG You mean ColdFusion 11 is public :P I'm hearing Stroz in the back of my head... 10.5 10.5 have a great weekend! -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358209 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
There are people doing that, and their entries are being closed without comment, even when they request comment. So what's the point? Also, QA and debugging are usually paid positions, except for open source software. If Adobe wants to make CF open source, I will be happy to volunteer some time to help fix it. Otherwise, not my job. On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com wrote: Review the install of the now public beta. Write down a list of faults/suggestions. Go file it in the bug report tool. Let everyone know that it's there for vote and comment. Everyone then go vote and comment. If you do it right, and you give it full court press, maybe we can get at least partial response before they take the server to full product. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358212 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
For the Love of God On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Maureen mamamaur...@gmail.com wrote: There are people doing that, and their entries are being closed without comment, even when they request comment. So what's the point? Also, QA and debugging are usually paid positions, except for open source software. If Adobe wants to make CF open source, I will be happy to volunteer some time to help fix it. Otherwise, not my job. On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com wrote: Review the install of the now public beta. Write down a list of faults/suggestions. Go file it in the bug report tool. Let everyone know that it's there for vote and comment. Everyone then go vote and comment. If you do it right, and you give it full court press, maybe we can get at least partial response before they take the server to full product. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358213 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
Oh, does he work at Adobe now? On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Jerry Milo Johnson jmi...@gmail.com wrote: For the Love of God On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Maureen mamamaur...@gmail.com wrote: There are people doing that, and their entries are being closed without comment, even when they request comment. So what's the point? Also, QA and debugging are usually paid positions, except for open source software. If Adobe wants to make CF open source, I will be happy to volunteer some time to help fix it. Otherwise, not my job. On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com wrote: Review the install of the now public beta. Write down a list of faults/suggestions. Go file it in the bug report tool. Let everyone know that it's there for vote and comment. Everyone then go vote and comment. If you do it right, and you give it full court press, maybe we can get at least partial response before they take the server to full product. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358214 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
Also, QA and debugging are usually paid positions, except for open source software. If Adobe wants to make CF open source, I will be happy to volunteer some time to help fix it. Otherwise, not my job. Bugs happen... as a developer I'm sure you've had clients bring bugs to you and you've asked them to provide additional information so they could be reproduced and fixed. It wasn't their job per se, but it happens to all of us. One of the companies I work with was all geared up to move a fairly large e-commerce network from CF8 to CF10 when we ran into an issue with the 404 handler (see https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=bugid=3488063) which had been previously reported to Adobe, but they were having trouble reproducing it internally. I spent a lot of time setting up test cases and bolting on debugging tools, gathering packet captures, getting traces from IIS, and digging way deeper than I ever thought I would. After lots of rounds of back and forth with Adobe engineering, they will soon be releasing* an update to the Tomcat connector for CF10 and I'm sure it'll make its way into CF11 as well. Anyone who's run into the connection reset issue when using a CF-based 404 handler will soon have a fix for that problem. It wasn't my job to help them troubleshoot this and create a reproduction scenario and work with them to test potential solutions (heck, we even paid for the privilege through a platinum support contract), but we needed that feature to work properly, so we did what was needed to help them fix it. Sorry, I get annoyed whenever I hear people say not my job. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358216 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
Maureen, This is one of my extreme pet peeves with Adobe, in the last 10+ years, is the length of time it takes from a bug being reported to being fixed is in the years, not days or months, but literally years. I have bugs that where reported in the 2006-2008 days, that are still not fixed in ColdFusion 11. As a developer how does that give me any confidence in the product? Yes it is a perception, but it is a much too common perception I come across by other developers I talk too when it comes to ColdFusion. Regards, Andrew Scott WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/ Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411 On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Maureen mamamaur...@gmail.com wrote: There are people doing that, and their entries are being closed without comment, even when they request comment. So what's the point? Also, QA and debugging are usually paid positions, except for open source software. If Adobe wants to make CF open source, I will be happy to volunteer some time to help fix it. Otherwise, not my job. On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 10:38 AM, Steve 'Cutter' Blades cold.fus...@cutterscrossing.com wrote: Review the install of the now public beta. Write down a list of faults/suggestions. Go file it in the bug report tool. Let everyone know that it's there for vote and comment. Everyone then go vote and comment. If you do it right, and you give it full court press, maybe we can get at least partial response before they take the server to full product. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358217 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
Justin, yes I reported this too Adobe during the ColdFusion 10 beta. I can confirm and hope that by the fact that the ticket has been marked fixed, that this is now in ColdFusion 11 as a fix. Regards, Andrew Scott WebSite: http://www.andyscott.id.au/ Google+: http://plus.google.com/113032480415921517411 On Sat, Mar 29, 2014 at 2:58 PM, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.orgwrote: Also, QA and debugging are usually paid positions, except for open source software. If Adobe wants to make CF open source, I will be happy to volunteer some time to help fix it. Otherwise, not my job. Bugs happen... as a developer I'm sure you've had clients bring bugs to you and you've asked them to provide additional information so they could be reproduced and fixed. It wasn't their job per se, but it happens to all of us. One of the companies I work with was all geared up to move a fairly large e-commerce network from CF8 to CF10 when we ran into an issue with the 404 handler (see https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=bugid=3488063) which had been previously reported to Adobe, but they were having trouble reproducing it internally. I spent a lot of time setting up test cases and bolting on debugging tools, gathering packet captures, getting traces from IIS, and digging way deeper than I ever thought I would. After lots of rounds of back and forth with Adobe engineering, they will soon be releasing* an update to the Tomcat connector for CF10 and I'm sure it'll make its way into CF11 as well. Anyone who's run into the connection reset issue when using a CF-based 404 handler will soon have a fix for that problem. It wasn't my job to help them troubleshoot this and create a reproduction scenario and work with them to test potential solutions (heck, we even paid for the privilege through a platinum support contract), but we needed that feature to work properly, so we did what was needed to help them fix it. Sorry, I get annoyed whenever I hear people say not my job. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358218 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CAN THIS PLEASE BE THE END? Re: The long tail of ColdFusion fail
The scenario you describe is vastly different than me telling my clients if they want the next version of my software to be secure they have to download and install a beta with known problems, test it, record flaws, suggest features and solicit votes for those flaws to be fixed and the features to be added. And then when they do that, I give them no feedback on their submissions. Not gonna play. This is my last post on this topic. On Fri, Mar 28, 2014 at 8:58 PM, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.org wrote: Also, QA and debugging are usually paid positions, except for open source software. If Adobe wants to make CF open source, I will be happy to volunteer some time to help fix it. Otherwise, not my job. Bugs happen... as a developer I'm sure you've had clients bring bugs to you and you've asked them to provide additional information so they could be reproduced and fixed. It wasn't their job per se, but it happens to all of us. One of the companies I work with was all geared up to move a fairly large e-commerce network from CF8 to CF10 when we ran into an issue with the 404 handler (see https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=bugid=3488063) which had been previously reported to Adobe, but they were having trouble reproducing it internally. I spent a lot of time setting up test cases and bolting on debugging tools, gathering packet captures, getting traces from IIS, and digging way deeper than I ever thought I would. After lots of rounds of back and forth with Adobe engineering, they will soon be releasing* an update to the Tomcat connector for CF10 and I'm sure it'll make its way into CF11 as well. Anyone who's run into the connection reset issue when using a CF-based 404 handler will soon have a fix for that problem. It wasn't my job to help them troubleshoot this and create a reproduction scenario and work with them to test potential solutions (heck, we even paid for the privilege through a platinum support contract), but we needed that feature to work properly, so we did what was needed to help them fix it. Sorry, I get annoyed whenever I hear people say not my job. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:358219 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
