Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
And, so, what - you're looking for someone to come up with your data model for you? Are you offering to hire someone to do it? I think asking for an example of one isn't going to get you very far. Data models (whether logical or physical) are based on business requirements. I'd assume that the business requirements for this particular customer are very precise. You seemed to indicate before that they already have a data model in a teradata server (I must admit I know nothing about teradata). I'd start with their existing data model. Typically, if this is their live data, it's probably optimized for a lot of reads and writes. In a data warehouse, you're probably more interested in optimizing for report generation. But, again, without knowing what kinds of reports they'd want to generate out of their warehouse, it's not like anyone could give you much input. On 4/7/06, Discover Antartica [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am trying to create a Logical Data Model for Coupon business over the internet. The client is a sort of amazon.com for coupons. We need to build a data warehouse for them. - Original Message From: Deanna Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Friday, April 7, 2006 12:47:43 PM Subject: Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community I think it's a faulty assumption that just because no one knows of an off-the-shelf data model for a project for which we have no parameters that there are no data modelers in the CF community. I love data modeling. In fact, if anything, I probably jump into data modeling too early on in a project, just because I'm so excited about that aspect of it. I went back and reread the original thread, and I guess I'm still not even sure what you're asking for. There are examples of data models out there for various projects. I happen to have 2 sitting on my desk right now for shopping cart products. What are you trying to resolve with this data model? On 4/7/06, Discover Antartica [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks like it is hard to find data modelers in the CF community. Anyone know of any mailing list for database designers or data modelers? The CF application that we have created for ETL is going to be shot dead before it is even sold to the first client if the Logical Data Model issue is not resolved. There are already talks about trashing the entire tool. I know this is unrelated, so again, I apologize. - Original Message From: Discover Antartica [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2006 2:16:21 PM Subject: Re: CF interacting with Teradata Server It is a, if you will, a baby copy of Informatica (informatica is the 800 pound guirella in the ETL market). - Original Message From: Munson, Jacob [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2006 2:04:33 PM Subject: RE: CF interacting with Teradata Server There is an application that is built entirely in Coldfusion for doing ETL (Extraction Transformation and Loading) of data from one database into another. I'm off topic from your original post, but what is this CF based ETL? I had no idea such an animal existed...or is that what you are trying to build? --- [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237330 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
Looks like it is hard to find data modelers in the CF community. Anyone know of any mailing list for database designers or data modelers? The CF application that we have created for ETL is going to be shot dead before it is even sold to the first client if the Logical Data Model issue is not resolved. There are already talks about trashing the entire tool. I know this is unrelated, so again, I apologize. - Original Message From: Discover Antartica [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2006 2:16:21 PM Subject: Re: CF interacting with Teradata Server It is a, if you will, a baby copy of Informatica (informatica is the 800 pound guirella in the ETL market). - Original Message From: Munson, Jacob [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2006 2:04:33 PM Subject: RE: CF interacting with Teradata Server There is an application that is built entirely in Coldfusion for doing ETL (Extraction Transformation and Loading) of data from one database into another. I'm off topic from your original post, but what is this CF based ETL? I had no idea such an animal existed...or is that what you are trying to build? --- [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237188 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
In the time that I've been in the cf community (and web development in general) it seems to be par for the course. Few actually give much thought to actual data modeling and a good database design. Having come from the background, I was floored by the fly by the seat of your pants nature of web development. Take a look at Druid (http://sourceforge.net/projects/druid/) as it might help you get the logical model that you need. Visio also has extensions for this as well. Rey... Discover Antartica wrote: Looks like it is hard to find data modelers in the CF community. Anyone know of any mailing list for database designers or data modelers? The CF application that we have created for ETL is going to be shot dead before it is even sold to the first client if the Logical Data Model issue is not resolved. There are already talks about trashing the entire tool. I know this is unrelated, so again, I apologize. - Original Message From: Discover Antartica [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2006 2:16:21 PM Subject: Re: CF interacting with Teradata Server It is a, if you will, a baby copy of Informatica (informatica is the 800 pound guirella in the ETL market). - Original Message From: Munson, Jacob [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2006 2:04:33 PM Subject: RE: CF interacting with Teradata Server There is an application that is built entirely in Coldfusion for doing ETL (Extraction Transformation and Loading) of data from one database into another. I'm off topic from your original post, but what is this CF based ETL? I had no idea such an animal existed...or is that what you are trying to build? --- [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237190 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
In the time that I've been in the cf community (and web development in general) it seems to be par for the course. Few actually give much thought to actual data modeling and a good database design. Having come from the background, I was floored by the fly by the seat of your pants nature of web development. I'd say it's not justa CF-centric issue. I for one am of two minds on the issue 1) Bad for the industry in general as clients have bad experiences with these folks 2) Good for business as these folks screw up applications and then we get hired to do it the right way ;-) but yes...in general I'd have to say that there are more developers/programmers that do not truly understand data modelling than there are those that do. Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237191 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
I would agree that it's web development as a whole, not just CF. I'd wager that the only area you don't see this problem (as much) would be java developers. The average java programmer comes from a programming background I think. So many web developers are not CS majors by default, they maybe started out as graphic designers who learned dynamic web page development using ASP, php, CFML, etc. Relational database design isn't always the easiest concept for some people to grasp. I wasn't a cs major either, though I'd be programming all my life as a hobby (I wrote a terminal emulator for my Commodore 64 once!), I was never a disciplined programmer. Never really dealt with databases as well until 1996 when I was asked to build a cost estimating application using VB and Excel. We were a small company and our resident database specialist who was responsible for maintaining our SQL Server 6.5 installation taught my the basics of relational database design and normalization and such. She was actually very good. 10 years later, I still learn things about how best to design databases and run queries, because I work with extremely large amounts of data here at Duke... millions of rows. Bad database design doesn't always become noticable to people until you've got a lot of data and your queries start to suck. I wrote one app just recently than ran a lot of queries. It ran fine with test data until I realized that the spreadsheet I was generating had 1800 rows and I was running 22 queries for each row. That's 39,600 queries. I ended up creating a view and doing some other stuff to drop the number of queries to 3600 and it runs fine now - 5-10 seconds. Which is fine for a report that only runs once a month :) rick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237192 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
I'd say it's not justa CF-centric issue. I for one am of two minds on the issue yep, thats why I threw in this little phrase (and web development in general). ;) The sad part of this is that most clients don't understand the benefit of properly outlining your database. They want it quick and piece-meal. I remember when I first got into web dev and submitted a proposal to a new dotcom. When they saw the data modeling bullet point, they thought I was crazy. They wanted things done on the fly. Thats probably one of the reasons they're not around anymore. ;o) Ah how I long for the good ole days when people actually took the time to build things right. :o) Rey... ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237193 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
Looks like it is hard to find data modelers in the CF community. Well, one here, but... First, what exactly are the characteristics that you want to test? Functionality, usability, performance...? For the purposes of this test, why does it matter if it's the type of data model you describe, or even a good data model? Or is it more of a demonstration that you want to set up? Isn't populating the data going to be a bigger problem than designing the data model? Second, I would say the best data model is the one that best matches the enterprise rules encapsulating a particular set of requirements. So no-one can say which off-the-shelf one is best for you without knowing your enterprise rules. I've never used an off-the-shelf data model and I can't imagine how you'd evaluate one properly - you'd have to study it to see if it matched your requirements, but presumably the vendor wouldn't let you do that. Nick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237194 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
The gov't is as bad if not worse than any other client I have ever worked with when it comes to issues like this. They don't have to worry about making a profit, or even about keeping budget sometimes. -- Timothy Heald Analyst, Architect, Developer [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: 202-228-8372 C: 703-300-3911 -Original Message- From: Rey Bango [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 07, 2006 2:03 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community I'd say it's not justa CF-centric issue. I for one am of two minds on the issue yep, thats why I threw in this little phrase (and web development in general). ;) The sad part of this is that most clients don't understand the benefit of properly outlining your database. They want it quick and piece-meal. I remember when I first got into web dev and submitted a proposal to a new dotcom. When they saw the data modeling bullet point, they thought I was crazy. They wanted things done on the fly. Thats probably one of the reasons they're not around anymore. ;o) Ah how I long for the good ole days when people actually took the time to build things right. :o) Rey... ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237196 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
Second, I would say the best data model is the one that best matches the enterprise rules encapsulating a particular set of requirements. So no-one can say which off-the-shelf one is best for you without knowing your enterprise rules. I've never used an off-the-shelf data model and I can't imagine how you'd evaluate one properly - you'd have to study it to see if it matched your requirements, but presumably the vendor wouldn't let you do that. I don't think anyone mentioned an off-the-shelf data model. I'm not sure if that even exists. But, you can certainly use most off-the-shelf data modelers (ie: data modeling tool) to create a logical physical model. Rey... ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237197 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
Ah how I long for the good ole days when people actually took the time to build things right. :o) Rey... Yep..but as I said...means those projects cross my desk eventually when they fall apart. The best analogy I've heard (and use frequently as clients understand it).. The database is like the foundation of your house. If you don't get it right the first time you may have to tear apart all or a lot of the house to change the foundation (house being the application). Cheers Bryan Stevenson B.Comm. VP Director of E-Commerce Development Electric Edge Systems Group Inc. phone: 250.480.0642 fax: 250.480.1264 cell: 250.920.8830 e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.electricedgesystems.com ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237198 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
I don't think anyone mentioned an off-the-shelf data model. That's what the OP was asking for, in fact. The original thread was called CF interacting with Teradata Server: There is an application that is built entirely in Coldfusion for doing ETL (Extraction Transformation and Loading) of data from one database into another. Now, in order to test this tool on a real time project, there is an unrelated issue that is taking time. We need to design the database in Teradata and then use this tool to map data from SQL Server tables into Teradata tables. In order to create the database design, I have been asked to find out the best Logical Data Models there are in the industry. The company is willing to pay money to purchase those models. We are looking for retail LDM samples in general and coupon business related in particular. I do not know how to do the research and find the best commercial LDM out there. Nick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237199 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
Yes. That was the original question and if anyone comes across any off-the-shelf data model, please let me know. Maybe your company database guys may know of any resource, maybe they have done something similar. My company is willing to pay for the model if we think it is going to be beneficial... just for humor, here is a saying when dealing with databases: don't drink and derive. thanks all - Original Message From: Nick de Voil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Friday, April 7, 2006 12:16:25 PM Subject: Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community I don't think anyone mentioned an off-the-shelf data model. That's what the OP was asking for, in fact. The original thread was called CF interacting with Teradata Server: There is an application that is built entirely in Coldfusion for doing ETL (Extraction Transformation and Loading) of data from one database into another. Now, in order to test this tool on a real time project, there is an unrelated issue that is taking time. We need to design the database in Teradata and then use this tool to map data from SQL Server tables into Teradata tables. In order to create the database design, I have been asked to find out the best Logical Data Models there are in the industry. The company is willing to pay money to purchase those models. We are looking for retail LDM samples in general and coupon business related in particular. I do not know how to do the research and find the best commercial LDM out there. Nick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237200 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
I think it's a faulty assumption that just because no one knows of an off-the-shelf data model for a project for which we have no parameters that there are no data modelers in the CF community. I love data modeling. In fact, if anything, I probably jump into data modeling too early on in a project, just because I'm so excited about that aspect of it. I went back and reread the original thread, and I guess I'm still not even sure what you're asking for. There are examples of data models out there for various projects. I happen to have 2 sitting on my desk right now for shopping cart products. What are you trying to resolve with this data model? On 4/7/06, Discover Antartica [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks like it is hard to find data modelers in the CF community. Anyone know of any mailing list for database designers or data modelers? The CF application that we have created for ETL is going to be shot dead before it is even sold to the first client if the Logical Data Model issue is not resolved. There are already talks about trashing the entire tool. I know this is unrelated, so again, I apologize. - Original Message From: Discover Antartica [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2006 2:16:21 PM Subject: Re: CF interacting with Teradata Server It is a, if you will, a baby copy of Informatica (informatica is the 800 pound guirella in the ETL market). - Original Message From: Munson, Jacob [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2006 2:04:33 PM Subject: RE: CF interacting with Teradata Server There is an application that is built entirely in Coldfusion for doing ETL (Extraction Transformation and Loading) of data from one database into another. I'm off topic from your original post, but what is this CF based ETL? I had no idea such an animal existed...or is that what you are trying to build? --- [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237201 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
You sir are correct! My apologies! Rey... Nick de Voil wrote: I don't think anyone mentioned an off-the-shelf data model. That's what the OP was asking for, in fact. The original thread was called CF interacting with Teradata Server: There is an application that is built entirely in Coldfusion for doing ETL (Extraction Transformation and Loading) of data from one database into another. Now, in order to test this tool on a real time project, there is an unrelated issue that is taking time. We need to design the database in Teradata and then use this tool to map data from SQL Server tables into Teradata tables. In order to create the database design, I have been asked to find out the best Logical Data Models there are in the industry. The company is willing to pay money to purchase those models. We are looking for retail LDM samples in general and coupon business related in particular. I do not know how to do the research and find the best commercial LDM out there. Nick ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237203 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community
I am trying to create a Logical Data Model for Coupon business over the internet. The client is a sort of amazon.com for coupons. We need to build a data warehouse for them. - Original Message From: Deanna Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Friday, April 7, 2006 12:47:43 PM Subject: Re: Looks like hard to find data modelers in the CF community I think it's a faulty assumption that just because no one knows of an off-the-shelf data model for a project for which we have no parameters that there are no data modelers in the CF community. I love data modeling. In fact, if anything, I probably jump into data modeling too early on in a project, just because I'm so excited about that aspect of it. I went back and reread the original thread, and I guess I'm still not even sure what you're asking for. There are examples of data models out there for various projects. I happen to have 2 sitting on my desk right now for shopping cart products. What are you trying to resolve with this data model? On 4/7/06, Discover Antartica [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Looks like it is hard to find data modelers in the CF community. Anyone know of any mailing list for database designers or data modelers? The CF application that we have created for ETL is going to be shot dead before it is even sold to the first client if the Logical Data Model issue is not resolved. There are already talks about trashing the entire tool. I know this is unrelated, so again, I apologize. - Original Message From: Discover Antartica [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2006 2:16:21 PM Subject: Re: CF interacting with Teradata Server It is a, if you will, a baby copy of Informatica (informatica is the 800 pound guirella in the ETL market). - Original Message From: Munson, Jacob [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Sent: Thursday, April 6, 2006 2:04:33 PM Subject: RE: CF interacting with Teradata Server There is an application that is built entirely in Coldfusion for doing ETL (Extraction Transformation and Loading) of data from one database into another. I'm off topic from your original post, but what is this CF based ETL? I had no idea such an animal existed...or is that what you are trying to build? --- [INFO] -- Access Manager: This transmission may contain information that is privileged, confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the information contained herein (including any reliance thereon) is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in error, please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in its entirety, whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. A2 ~| Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:237207 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
